Book Is Rallying Resistance to the Antivaccine Crusade

The beginning of the article you sent said " However, fetal stem cells...are obtained from terminated pregnancies." My awareness is that this means aborted fetuses. It didn't say, as first source, that it was fertilized eggs. The article I sent shows advanced development in stem cells from an adult's own system. That would be my preference. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:

Aborted fetuses aren't where most fetal stem cells used in research come from. They come from frozen, fertilized eggs from in vitro fertilization clinics that would otherwise be thrown away. It's a reuse of an otherwise wasted resource.

If aborted fetuses were used as source material, it would be a wonderful conclusion to an otherwise typically sad story. The notion that additional abortions would be needed to provide the stem cells is a wild notion not based on reality. There are plenty of abortions and plenty of left over material from in vitro clinics.

Here's a pretty decent summary of the stem cell research debate: Fetal Stem Cells in Modern-Day Science (ActionBioscience)

-Jeff

---

I appreciate your understanding of my feelings about PP. As I said, I don't feel I'm an isolated case. You are also right that good options for birth control and other services need a major face-lift (my words). And it is sad that so many women across the world cannot make a choice on their reproductive rights. My great-aunt died from a back-ally abortion in the 1920's.

I have done a great deal of research on different covert government activities and connections worldwide for many years. I think, after hearing three defected CIA agents talk at Sonoma State in 1979 before there was a gag order placed on them and then being part of Amnesty International, my interest in different government agendas grew sharply. When you mentioned Rockefeller, Bush and eugenics, again I will agree that there are direct connections.

This is link is a Planned Parenthood document from 1947 with Prescott Bush name, GWB Jr' grandfather, on it. https://www.randomhouse.com/doubleda...cument007a.pdf

I attempted to find the website for this article below by Robert Ledeman from the Village Voices, but there was no complete copy online. So I'm going to just post the article that I kept right below. It was written mostly about Bush Jr's cabinet and associates, but for me, there is no party boundaries in who plays this game. Though some may choose to put the label of "conspiracy theories" on the below articles, the info is well documented. As I said in a previouos post, it's good to use your discernment. For me, this article put together other research that I had compiled. There is also another website that I'll just put here The GW Bush Gang that is of similar context.


What's Hiding In GW's Cabinet?
by Robert Lederman (Village Voice)


"I'm very good at delegating authority...I'll surround myself
with the best minds in America". Exactly who are these, best
minds in America, and where is GW Bush getting them from?
There is a common thread connecting all of Bush's appointees
so far-pharmaceuticals, oil, Wall Street and the historical
connection between the CIA, major US corporations and Nazi
Germany. If you've studied the Bush family history in any
depth you won't find many surprises among his nominations.
Paul O'Neill, the Bush nominee for Treasury Secretary, is the
chairman of Alcoa Aluminum, one of the nation's largest toxic
polluters. O'Neill owns 1.6 million shares of Alcoa, worth more
than $50 million. During WWII Alcoa negotiated a deal with
the Nazis and IG Farben to supply Germany's war machine
rather than the US military with aluminum. "If America loses
this war," said then Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes on
June 26, 1941, "it can thank the Aluminum Corporation of
America [ALCOA]."


Alcoa is the producer of hundreds of millions of tons of
fluoride. This highly toxic byproduct of aluminum has been
scientifically linked in thousands of medical studies conducted
since the 19th century to cancer and other degenerative
diseases. In the 1950's Alcoa arranged to have it profitably
added to our nation's drinking water rather than disposed of as
toxic waste. During WWII the Nazis discovered that by adding
fluoride to the drinking water in concentration camps they
could make prisoners far more submissive to authority. .

Melquiades R. Martinez, designated Secretary for Housing and
Urban Development, is a Cuban refugee who established his
political reputation by preventing new housing from being built
in conservative Orange Co. Florida-claiming it was a quality of
life violation. As chair of Orange County, Martinez eliminated
the department of community affairs, a civil rights agency that
was set up to give poor people a voice in local government. It
is probable that Martinez received CIA indoctrination after he
arrived in the US at age 15 as part of a government airlift
program of children whose parents did not want them to grow
up under the Castro regime.


NJ Governor Christie Whitman is the Bush designee for the
Environmental Protection Agency. Her massively polluted
state hosts some of the world's largest oil refineries and
chemical manufacturing plants. Environmental non-expert
Whitman has said she doubts that the giant ozone hole over the
North Pole or global warming are actually serious problems.
Donald L. Evans, the nominee for Commerce Secretary, is an
insider in the Texas "oil mafia" and is GW's closest friend and
confidant. He's also a close friend, confidant and contributor
to one of America's biggest recipients of government contacts,
Halliburton's Dick Cheney.


Rev. Floyd Flake, Dubya's nominee for Secretary of Education,
was the only prominent African American leader in NYC to
endorse Bush pal Rudy Giuliani, the racist NYC Mayor who
has executed a seven year long campaign of violence,
harassment and false arrest aimed at African Americans.

Giuliani's most memorable quote on education was a proposal
to blow up the entire NYC Board of Education.

Last year, to his everlasting credit, Flake publicly denounced
Giuliani as a mental case. Like numerous GW Bush aides and
advisors, Rev. Flake is part of the CIA's Manhattan Institute
which masterminded Giuliani's entire social eugenics agenda.
Among the areas Flake is likely to focus on for Bush is turning
public education over to religious institutions and
corporations.


Ann M. Veneman, Bush's appointee for secretary of
agriculture, was deputy secretary for agriculture under
President George Bush. She is known as an advocate for letting
corporations exploit public land and for widespread
distribution of foods containing genetically-altered animal
genes, viruses, self-contained insecticides and bacteria. Bush
has said he wants to open up Federal reserves, national forests
and other pristine areas of public land to oil drilling, mining
and road construction. Under Bush stewardship, we could see
corporations running frankenfood farms in Yosemite or drilling
for oil in the Grand Canyon.


John Ashcroft, GW's choice for Attorney General, is a
self-styled moral crusader as strongly against abortion as he is
enthusiastic about the death penalty. He lost his Senate seat in
the 2000 election to an opponent who died during the
campaign. Last year, Ashcroft received an honorary degree
from Bob Jones University and is closely aligned with the
Christian Coalition and Pat Robertson. Ashcroft is also an
outspoken fan of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. He
is known among lobbyists as an advocate for drug companies
and the automotive industry and for preventing consumers
from suing HMO's.


Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., nominated as director of the Office of
Management and Budget was senior executive of the Eli Lilly
drug company-which Bush's father headed from 1977-79.
Daniels was also previously the president of the
arch-conservative think tank Hudson Institute. Daniels, who
advocates strict enforcement of laws against casual drug users,
was arrested for marijuana possession in 1970.

Secretary of State designee Colin Powell is a lifelong operative
of the CIA/military-industrial complex. While working for the
Pentagon he helped cover up the Mai Lai massacre, the
contra/arms deal and Gulf War Syndrome. Powell's fame
derives from presiding over a war in which US troops were
used as guinea pigs for experimental vaccines so that they
could "safely" fight George Bush's friend Sadamn
Hussein-who had been given the go ahead to attack Kuwait
after being supplied with chemical and biological weapons by
the Bush administration. Like many of GW's appointees of
color, Powell proudly admits he owes his career in large part to
affirmative action while joining an administration that
considers ending affirmative action one of its topmost
priorities.


Condolezza Rice, Bush's National Security advisor was
formerly a security advisor under President George Bush and
an aide to Colin Powell. She has the job of explaining the basic
elements of foreign policy to GW, about which Bush admits to
knowing almost nothing. A large part of her career was
involved in administering the CIA's foreign policy objectives.
She serves on the board of Chevron Oil-known as one of the
African continents most violent human rights abusers. A
grateful Chevron recently named an oil tanker after her.


The emerging profile of the Bush administration-moderately
conservative and multi-racial-is a facade. To see their real
agenda one has to examine the administration's ideological
source-the Manhattan Institute. GW may cultivate the image of
a plain-talkin' good ole boy who prefers barbecuing to making
policy, but virtually every idea presented as central to his
agenda comes from this elite east coast institution.


A little background
MI (The Manhattan Institute) was started in 1978 by William
Casey, one of the top intelligence operatives in US history.
During WWII Casey worked with OSS chief William Donavan
and Allen Dulles to bring top level Nazi officials to the US
where they were recruited into the newly-formed CIA, the
military, government-connected medical research institutions
and the media. The stated rational for importing Hitler's top
intelligence operatives, social scientists and propagandists to
the US was that they would be employed in fighting
Communism-exactly what Hitler claimed he used them for. In
reality they were brought here to help establish fascism in
America-a goal which they are increasingly succeeding at.

Before WWII started Dulles was involved with GW's
grandfather Prescott Bush on Wall Street where, along with
George Herbert Walker (Prescott Bush's father-in-law) they
operated banks and shipping companies that were later
declared by the US Congress to be fronts for the Nazis. In 1942
shortly after the US entered WWII the assets of these Wall
Street companies were seized by the US government under the
Trading With The Enemy Act.


Dulles was the legal counsel for both Standard Oil and for Nazi
Germany's I.G. Farben-one of the world's largest industrial
powerhouses-which was co-owned by the Rockefeller
family-the main funders of the Manhattan Institute.


The US ambassador to Germany at the time had this to say
about The Rockefellers, the Bush's, the Mellons (owners of
Alcoa) and the other wealthy Americans who were backing
Hitler and promoting Eugenics, or scientific racism:


"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist
state to supplant our democratic government and is working
closely with the fascist regime in Germany. I have had plenty
of opportunity in Berlin to witness how close some of our
American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. . .They
extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and
they are helping to keep it there." - William Dodd, U.S.

Ambassador to Germany, 1937.-Facts and Fascism, G Seldes,
p. 122 Also, Trading with the Enemy, Charles Higham, p.167

When IG Farben was broken up after Germany lost the war its
parts became the top pharmaceutical companies in the world-
BASF, Hoechst, Bayer AG, Agfa-Gevaert and Cassella AG.
Today these companies, along with Pfizer and Eli Lilly-which
former President George Bush Sr. headed from 1977-1979-are the
largest manufacturers of prescription and over the counter
drugs sold in the U.S. Both the Pfizer and Eli Lilly drug
companies are sponsors of MI.


These oil, pharmaceutical and Wall Street investment banking
elites are the foundations of the Rockefeller and Bush dynasties
and are the real constituents of the new Bush administration.
Being a business partner with the Third Reich posed no
problem for Dulles who became the first CIA director in 1947.

In fact, their relationship with the Nazis and Wall Street was
exactly how Dulles, former Pres. Bush and William Casey all
became CIA directors. GW's father was made CIA director in
1976. Shortly after creating the Manhattan Institute, William
Casey was made CIA director by Ronald Reagan.


In 1954 Casey put together a consortium of investors including
top US intelligence experts who had made fortunes on Wall
Street to form Capital Cities. In the interim, Casey served as
Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission from
1969 to 1977. By 1985 Casey's Capital Cities had so much cash
it was able to buy ABC and operate it as a propaganda arm of
the US government-which it continues to be today.

Casey was the top stockholder in ABC while he was director of
the CIA under the Reagan and Bush administrations. ABC,
CNN and Rupert Murdoch's rabidly right wing network FOX
were instrumental in fabricating GW Bush's illegitimate
presidency, the myth that Colin Powell is a hero and the idea
that the Gulf War was a military victory-rather than a human
and ecological disaster fought solely to benefit the oil
industry.


The reason this history is crucial to understanding GW Bush
and his ties to the Manhattan Institute is that these same
themes-Wall Street investing, Eugenics, the oil and drug
industries, working for the Rockefeller family, manipulating
the media and the directorship and ideology of the CIA-are the
foundation on which the MI and it's influence within the new
Bush administration can be understood.


The connection between Nazi Germany, the Bush family and
the CIA is simultaneously political, financial and ideological.
It encompasses investment banking, legal and illegal drug dealing
and Eugenics, the pseudo-science of population control. Unlike
openly racist groups, they are equal opportunity employers
carefully cultivating operatives among all races. Academics,
politicians, doctors, clergy, prominent new anchors, social
scientists and in some cases even street gangs are among their
assets in the war to exert social control.


If you visit the MI website you will find a list of academics
who are their roster of so-called conservative experts. Their
areas of expertise are race, eliminating welfare, deregulation
of business and the privatization of virtually everything the
government presently manages-including education, prisons,
parks, streets, social security, courts and welfare.


A number of their experts, including Bush's domestic policy
advisor Stephen Goldsmith and Rev. Floyd Flake, are slated for
cabinet positions. Others MI notables, including Myron
Magnet, are the inventors of Bush's doublespeak theme,
"compassionate conservatism". GW has stated that next to
Jesus and the bible, Magnet's book on the so-called underclass
has been the single greatest influence on his ideas.


The Pioneer Fund, perhaps the world's greatest promoter of
Eugenics, funded MI's best-known resident scholar, Charles
Murray, during eight years in which he wrote The Bell Curve.
Despite tremendous controversy about his ideas Murray
remains the MI's leading expert on welfare reform, IQ and
affirmative action. The Bell Curve advances the idea, as do
virtually all Pioneer Fund projects, that African Americans are
genetically inferior, disease prone, have low IQ and are a drain
on the US economy. Murray's books have been heavily
promoted by the MI and are the intellectual foundation for the
movement in the US to end affirmative action and welfare.


Murray is glowingly mentioned hundreds of times on their
website, speaks at their seminars and is cited as a brilliant
scholar by none other than GW Bush's top domestic policy
advisor, Stephen Goldsmith.


Many Americans didn't seem to mind seeing the CIA ruthlessly
manipulate the political and social fabric of other nations for
the second half of the 20th century. How they will feel about
America being openly run by the CIA and this circle of racist
corporate gangsters may well determine the history of the next
century.

Robert Lederman 12/23/2000


NY Times June 12, 2000 Bush Culls Campaign Theme From
Conservative Thinkers-- Gov. George W. Bush has said his
political views have been shaped by the work of Myron
Magnet of the Manhattan Institute-- Also see: The Dallas
Morning Star 4/16/2000 The Godfathers of 'Compassionate
Conservatism


NY Times Monday, May 12, 1997
Turning Intellect Into Influence Promoting Its Ideas, the
Manhattan Institute Has Nudged New York Rightward "...the
institute was founded as a free-market education and research
organization by William Casey, who then went off to head the
Central Intelligence Agency in the Reagan Administration."
See: Sarasota Herald-Tribune 11/11/2000

Director of Florida Holocaust Museum links Bush family to
Nazis


"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier,
just so long as I'm the dictator." -12/18/2000 GW Bush
See CNN transcripts

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

I’m sorry you had a bad experience at PP. Unfortunately, with our fragmented system, it’s the only option for many women and girls to get the birth control and other services they need. I know all too well how things can go wrong while delivering health care and how even a subtle negative attitude from a caregiver can be devastating.

I like to think I’m more cynical and suspicious about government than average, but that it’s possible to go overboard on the whole conspiracy thing. Sanger probably was flawed and racist, but she was also extremely brave and bold to work for birth control in those days. That she was cozy with the Rockefellers and was glad to get money for funding from them is interesting. However, you can’t use that to condemn the whole organization and all the good they do around the world. Agencies like Planned Parenthood were stymied during the Bush years and funding was cut. (But wasn't Bush part of the whole genocidal Rockefeller conspiracy?) Now, Obama has reversed the gag rule, so the agencies can actually discuss abortion.
From 2005...women die without access to safe abortion:
"AfricaFocus Bulletin
Nov 28, 2005 (051128)The Global Gag Rule undermines efforts to prevent unintended pregnancies in the first place by crippling family planning programs that do so much as collect data on unsafe abortion. It also hobbles efforts to address the toll taken on women's lives worldwide by complications of unsafe abortion, sexually transmitted infections, complications of labor and delivery, and other leading causes of illness and death among women worldwide. According to conservative estimates by the World Health Organization (WHO), approximately 600,000 women worldwide die each year from complications of pregnancy and childbirth, of which at least 78,000 women worldwide die as a result of complications of unsafe abortion in a desperate effort to terminate unintended pregnancies. In Kenya, where abortion is illegal, complications of unsafe abortion are a leading killer of married women in their twenties and thirties. The Kenya Family Planning Association lost U.S. funding because it refused to forgo the right to discuss the toll of unsafe abortion on the lives of women in Kenya. "Loss of this funding has severely undermined efforts to reduce unintended pregnancy in Kenya through expansion of voluntary family planning as well as to prevent HIV infections in women," according to Dr. Godwin Mzenge, Executive Director of Family Planning Association of Kenya."
USA/Africa: Global Gag Rule Expands

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

The beginning of the article you sent said " However, fetal stem cells...are obtained from terminated pregnancies." My awareness is that this means aborted fetuses. It didn't say, as first source, that it was fertilized eggs. ...

---

No one has ever, to my knowledge, been coerced or forced to have an abortion to provide stem cells. None need ever.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

... The article I sent shows advanced development in stem cells from an adult's own system. That would be my preference. Thanks.

---

That would also be my preference.

-Jeff

I would also prefer that stem cells be obtained from adult cells.

As a result of this forum, I have learned quite a bit about Margaret Sanger!
She did more to advance access to birth control than anyone in history. She was a remarkable woman. Too bad her legacy is tainted by her involvement in the eugenics involvement.
She was not a puppet of the Rockefellers, whatever else you might say about her. She actually published an article called, "In defense of assassination" in her magazine, that was approving of the attempted bombing of Rockefeller's apartment in NYC, on Lexington Avenue. She was friends with Socialist radicals, and was pushed out of Planned Parenthood for many years because she was considered too controversial.
"Influenced by the ideas of anarchist Emma Goldman, Sanger began to argue for the need for family limitation as a tool by which working-class women would liberate themselves from the economic burden of unwanted pregnancy.
In 1928 she angrily resigned as president of the American Birth Control League and as Sanger's leadership in the movement was eclipsed by younger professionals with more mainstream agenda"
MSPP > About Margaret Sanger > Biographical Sketch
On Enlightenment - Google Book Search

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

This is link is a Planned Parenthood document from 1947 with Prescott Bush name, GWB Jr' grandfather, on it. https://www.randomhouse.com/doubleda...cument007a.pdf

---

Thanks for the nice post. Yes, ol' Prescott was a bad one too. Skull & Bones, and he tried to overthrow the US government:

YouTube - bush prescott nazi connection

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by d-cat:

some info regarding resource shortages:


The First Global Revolution: A Report by the Council of the Club of Rome (1991)
First Global Revolution, The: A ... - Google Book Search


"It would seem that humans need a common motivation, namely a common adversary, to organize and act together in the vacuum; such a motivation must be found to bring the divided nations together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose."

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention ...The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."


The Club of Rome is a Rockefeller think tank (that Al Gore is a member of).



------------------------------


National Security Study Memorandum 200
Kissinger's 1974 Plan for Food Control Genocide
Schiller Institute- Kissinger's 1974 Genocide Plan- NSSM 200-Exposed Join Food For Peace Movement

Kissinger was a protégé of Rockefeller (who was a protégé of the House of Rothschilds).

---

some more info on shortages:


World warned of ‘food crunch’ threat
The world faces “the real risk of a food crunch” if governments do not take immediate action to address the agricultural impact of climate change and water scarcity, according to an authoritative report out on Monday. Chatham House, the London-based think-tank, suggests that the recent fall in food prices is only a temporary reprieve and that prices are set to resume their upward trend once the world emerges from the current downturn...

FT.com / Global Economy - World warned of ‘food crunch’ threat
World warned of 'food crunch' threat (alt link)




The above mentioned Chatham House is the Royal Institute of International Affairs, an elitist group like the the Bilderberg Club, the Club of Rome, and the CFR.

The IPCC in the story below are Gore's UN buddies who brought us (man-made catastrophic) Global Warming. Though they boasted that the number of scientists that backed them numbered in the hundreds, and even thousands, there were but 52 who authored the media-hyped OPCC 2007 Summary For Policymakers.
.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.




Billions face food shortages, study warns
Half of the world's population could face severe food shortages by the end of the century as rising temperatures take their toll on farmers' crops, scientists have warned. "The stress on global food production from temperatures alone is going to be huge, and that doesn't take into account water supplies stressed by the higher temperatures," said David Battisti, at the University of Washington, who led the study. Battisti and Rosamond Naylor, at Stanford University in California, combined climate models from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and historical examples of the impact of heatwaves on agriculture, and found severe food shortages were likely to become more common...
Billions face food shortages, study warns | Environment | The Guardian

meanwhile...

Carbon dioxide makes for bumper yields of soy
Access : Climate change could boost cash crops : Nature News

Higher CO2 levels may be good for plants: German scientists
AFP: Higher CO2 levels may be good for plants: German scientists


https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/...nerator-dd.jpg

Johnson CO2 Generator
Normally there are approximately 300 parts per million (PPM) of CO2 in the atmosphere; when this level is increased to over 1000 PPM, it results in higher production and better plant quality. The Johnson Generator provides up to 1500 PPM per unit in a 4800 square foot (446 square meter) greenhouse.
Johnson CO2 Generator - Greenhouse Megastore has everything you need to build, equip, and maintain a commercial, hobby, school or institutional greenhouse.

Florida beans and corn destroyed by cold weather
...Cold weather damaged most of Belle Glade’s winter green beans and sweet corn. As growers assessed damage from a series of freezes that struck south Florida growing regions...
Florida beans and corn destroyed, potatoes delayed

I don't know how this vaccine thread veered into global warming, but the story is more complicated than one might surmise from the posted articles above. Higher CO2 doesn't "boost yields" for all plants or for all biomes. Higher CO2 is acidifying our oceans and wiping out species among many other negative effects.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11655

Quote:

---

According to some accounts, the rise in carbon dioxide will usher in a new golden age where food production will be higher than ever before and most plants and animals will thrive as never before. If it sounds too good to be true, that's because it is
….higher CO2 levels will be disastrous for biodiversity. Between 20 to 30% of plant and animal species face extinction by the end of the century, according to the IPCC report.
As for food crops, the factors are more complex. The crops most widely used in the world for food in many cases depend on particular combinations of soil type, climate, moisture, weather patterns and the infrastructure of equipment, experience and distribution systems. If the climate warms so much that crops no longer thrive in their traditional settings, farming of some crops may be able to shift to adjacent areas, but others may not. Rich farmers and countries will be able to adapt more easily than poorer ones.

---

My point about Sanger was ignored. I think it's hard to say she was in the same grand conspiracy with Rockefeller when she was defending his assassination and hanging out with radical socialists! All this about seamlessly intertwined conspiracies seems like diverting energy that could be channeled into really promoting ideas and actions that could benefit society. What good does it do to point out that this or that person has attended Bilderberger or whatever? Isn't it paralyzing to feel that we are wrapped up in a giant spider web? There have always been and will always be rich, powerful people, who know each other and belong to the same clubs. We will have to agree to disagree about the significance of all these conspiracies.

Quote:

---

She actually published an article called, "In defense of assassination" in her magazine, that was approving of the attempted bombing of Rockefeller's apartment in NYC, on Lexington Avenue. She was friends with Socialist radicals, and was pushed out of Planned Parenthood for many years because she was considered too controversial.

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

I don't know how this vaccine thread veered into global warming,

---

not global warming, but shortages.

You said there are too many people on the planet and mentioned the resource shortages. I posted info on a book from '91 by the elitist Club of Rome stating they would use real or fabricated shortages to unite the people into believing that humanity is the enemy. A food shortage is something that we are now being threatened with.

I posted two articles which states that global warming would cause food shortages. One was based on info by Chatham House (the elitist Royal Institute of International Affairs), the other by the IPCC who are the UN's (Rockefeller's) global warming fearmongers.

But info coming from those not connected to the elitist groups claim that increased CO2 would improve the food supply. As does this report:



Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

There are no experimental data to support the hypothesis that increases in human hydrocarbon use or in atmospheric carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are causing or can be expected to cause unfavorable changes in global temperatures, weather, or landscape. There is no reason to limit human production of CO2, CH4, and other minor greenhouse gases as has been proposed (82,83,97,123).

We also need not worry about environmental calamities even if the current natural warming trend continues. The Earth has been much warmer during the past 3,000 years without catastrophic effects. Warmer weather extends growing seasons and generally improves the habitability of colder regions.

As coal, oil, and natural gas are used to feed and lift from poverty vast numbers of people across the globe, more CO2 will be released into the atmosphere. This will help to maintain and improve the health, longevity, prosperity, and productivity of all people.

The United States and other countries need to produce more energy, not less. The most practical, economical, and environmentally sound methods available are hydrocarbon and nuclear technologies.

Human use of coal, oil, and natural gas has not harmfully warmed the Earth, and the extrapolation of current trends shows that it will not do so in the foreseeable future. The CO2 produced does, however, accelerate the growth rates of plants and also permits plants to grow in drier regions. Animal life, which depends upon plants, also flourishes, and the diversity of plant and animal life is increased.

Human activities are producing part of the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere. Mankind is moving the carbon in coal, oil, and natural gas from below ground to the atmosphere, where it is available for conversion into living things. We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of this CO2 increase. Our children will therefore enjoy an Earth with far more plant and animal life than that with which we now are blessed...

Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide - Global Warming Petition Project




I believe the coming food shortage is contrived. They are able to do this by destroying local farming and by centralizing the food supply through mega farming corporations and UN regulations. For more info on this subject look into Codex Alimentarius, and 'Food As A Weapon'.

Another way to cause disruptions to the food supply is to force local distributors out of business by decreasing available credit (this is also how they're collapsing the economy).

The Banker Bailout and the Federal Reserve (2 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fdviZJHGn4

Credit Card Companies reducing your credit to help inch us to The GREAT DEPRESSION
https://www.reuters.com/article/ousi...4B01HI20081201

Crop crunch
Between seed, fertiliser, land and farm equipment, it can cost millions to fund a modern farm. Yet farmers get paid only at harvest time. Many rely on loans secured against future crops to finance their day-to-day operations. Now, that credit may be drying up...
https://www.ft.com/cms/s/9c76dad6-ba...nitor.com%252F



and this has contributed to North Bay’s largest independent food distributor going out of business:

Ritz Food Service shuts abruptly
Ritz had been the North Bay’s largest independent food distributor, serving customers from San Diego to Reno to the Oregon border, Smith said. It supplied food to restaurants, schools, hospitals, nursing homes and other customers...
...Ritz was hurt by high gas prices earlier this year and squeezed by restaurant chains trying to cut costs, Vanhoy said. The final straw came when lenders refused to extend financing to the company, he said.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...shuts_abruptly



another way is to simply make the food unaffordable:

Food Prices Will Rise, Causing Export Bans, Riots
https://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...pkg&refer=home

Leading Economist Warns of Food Riots
https://georgewashington2.blogspot.c...ood-riots.html

Fox Business: Gerald Celente Predicts Revolution, Food Riots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46MEqEgdLTg

Quote:

---

All this about seamlessly intertwined conspiracies seems like diverting energy that could be channeled into really promoting ideas and actions that could benefit society. What good does it do to point out that this or that person has attended Bilderberger or whatever? Isn't it paralyzing to feel that we are wrapped up in a giant spider web? There have always been and will always be rich, powerful people, who know each other and belong to the same clubs. We will have to agree to disagree about the significance of all these conspiracies.

---

It's their info that you base your opinion on. They control the press. They control the education curriculum. "He who controls media controls thoughts". Judging from what you've posted, you think it's ok to carry out genocide. You are so "sure" that the planet has reached its capacity. But the only thing you can really be sure of is that we are being told this. I've looked into who it is that's saying this, and why.

If there are indeed too many people on the planet, what would happen? People would die. So why kill them first, especially if there's a chance that they're wrong, or that something could change? Because for some people, playing God is fun. Throughout history, tyrants end up killing millions upon millions as an exercise of power.

Here's an interesting story about population. Despite the Japanese govt's effort to get the Japanese to produce more babies, the people of overcrowded Japan wouldn't, and the population of Japan continues to decline and decline. Like fish in a pond. Isn't nature wonderful...



Japan population 'set to plummet'
A dwindling birth rate is expected to cut Japan's population by 30% over the next 50 years, a survey by the government has said.
Prime Minister Shinzo Abe pledged to bring in policies that would prevent further falls in birth rates.
Correspondents say the current trend is caused by women marrying later in life and having fewer children.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan population 'set to plummet'

Japan Suffering Population Decline
The latest among the growing number of Nations to suffer from declining population growth, Japan braces for the negative implications of a population implosion... the government noted that the number of children in Japan had declined for the 26th consecutive year. 2,000 junior and senior high schools have closed due to lack of children, and some of these buildings are being converted into senior care centers. Pediatricians are changing their specialty to geriatric care, while some lonely seniors pretend child-like robot dolls are substitute grandchildren. Brian Clowes, writing for Human Life International, declares "if a government promotes “family planning” for decades, if it drills into the people's heads the idea that children are messy, noisy, expensive, and bad for the environment, once it has promoted and funded millions and millions of abortions, there is really no way back."
Japan Suffering Population Decline - Catholic Online

https://www.tylwythteg.com/images/guide.gif


https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Bl...guidestone.jpg

I'm glad to see CO2 getting PR in this thread; its a blast of cool air.Though I'm not an expert on atmospheric science, as an avid dancer the 2nd rate limiting factor is the ambient CO2 level. (First is body temp). Intuitively you might think that O2 level is the critical factor, I would guess that every dancer in the room has a 99% O2 saturation at all times. Our breathing is largely regulated by blood level of C02, and not O2. The contribution has been recorded at 90:10. There are exquisitely sensitive CO2 sensors in our carotid arteries which continually adjust our respiratory rate and depth -most critically during sleep eg sleep apnea. All this is under control of the autonomic nervous system, an accessible channel within our soma that is often brought under conscious control through meditation, yoga, biofeedback, and I believe, music and dance. In my experience I can feel the blood C02 elevation, with the biological urge to correct it. I often notice a corresponding drop in the energy level of the other dancers. Since I am already maximally hyperventilating, the only option is to adjust the air quality. This usually occurs only at in crowded rooms. I can often be seen running around the dance floor at times, opening windows and propping up doors, fiddling with thermostats and fans, often inadvertently upsetting someone in authority. I am gifted in this area I'm afraid. I would love to enlist other dancers in my quest to maintain proper CO2 levels, with its immediate effect on blood pH and consequently and instantly every cell in our precious bodies.
Yubajeff-edited for BOTH levity and brevity, BTW

The first link is from Frederick Seitz, who was the 'granddaddy of global warming deniers' and also defended the tobacco companies against charges of causing disease. He was president of the Rockefeller University, which helped develop vaccines. You can't trust him, if he's affiliated with the Rockefellers!:)
The Rockefeller University - History

Frederick Seitz - SourceWatch
Dr. Frederick Seitz (born July 4 1911; died March 2, 2008)[1] was a former head of Rockefeller University, a former head of the National Academy of Sciences and the principal scientific advisor to the R.J. Reynolds medical research program. In 1984 he co-founded the George C. Marshall Institute with Dr. Robert Jastrow and Dr. William Nierenberg. He was later the Chairman Emeritus of the Board of the Institute, an organization that has long denied global warming.

Quote:

---

It's their info that you base your opinion on.

---

I am aware that every source has an agenda or ax to grind...If you want to find "truth" you have to be very careful.

Quote:

---

They control the press. They control the education curriculum. "He who controls media controls thoughts". Judging from what you've posted, you think it's ok to carry out genocide. You are so "sure" that the planet has reached its capacity.

---

I am not sure that the planet has reached capacity. I do know that in many areas, the environment has degraded to the detriment of the people living there. They have cut down all their forests or fished out all the surrounding waters. The air in the cities is not fit to breathe. Are you saying that offering women access to birth control is genocide? That's pretty extreme!

Quote:

---

But the only thing you can really be sure of is that we are being told this. I've looked into who it is that's saying this, and why.

---

Quote:

---

If there are indeed too many people on the planet, what would happen? People would die. So why kill them first, especially if there's a chance that they're wrong, or that something could change? Because for some people, playing God is fun. Throughout history, tyrants end up killing millions upon millions as an exercise of power.

---

"So why kill them first?" Again, you think birth control is "killing"? Or offering vaccines is "killing"?

Quote:

---

Here's an interesting story about population. Despite the Japanese govt's effort to get the Japanese to produce more babies, the people of overcrowded Japan wouldn't, and the population of Japan continues to decline and decline.

---

Not only Japan, many countries are seeing populations decline, but the total world population is rising steadily.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

I am not sure that the planet has reached capacity.

---

sure sounded like you were a few posts ago:

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Are you saying that offering women access to birth control is genocide? That's pretty extreme!

---

no

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

"So why kill them first?" Again, you think birth control is "killing"?

---

Again, no. Not in the sense that birth control is made available to those who want it (for themselves).


-------------------------------------------------------------------


“I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing… War… has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full… The state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of that? Really high-minded people are indifferent to happiness, especially other people’s… There are three ways of securing a society that shall be stable as regards population. The first is that of birth control, the second that of infanticide or really destructive wars, and the third that of general misery except for a powerful minority…”

- Bertrand Russell, THE IMPACT OF SCIENCE ON SOCIETY 1953


“There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that’s why this is so important.”

- Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, April 28, 1997, Testimony before Congressional Committee


“And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”

- The Project for a New American Century, Rebuilding America’s Defenses, p. 60


“The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”

- Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.


“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

- Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon’s Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.


“Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems.”

- Margaret Sanger. “The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda.” Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.


note: Sanger was funded by the Rockefellers

Quote:

---

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

---

There are too many humans in some biomes, so that they are degrading the environment. Environmental disaster leading to starvation and death happened on Easter Island long ago with a small number of people, but it could...will eventually happen on the earth if we just keep multiplying. In some areas populations have cut down what is left of their forests, or have taken all the fish from the surrounding oceans to feed themselves. All over the world, the fish catches are down and many species are gone or almost gone. Animal species are disappearing from the earth as they lose their habitat.
Too many people some places, too few other places, but a rapidly growing world population. Our planet has the capacity to hold many more, but what will it be like after we've destroyed so much of the natural world?
World Clock

Maybe I misread you, but you seem to be saying I am in favor of genocide.(!) Just what do you mean?

Have I missed something?
Is it now politically incorrect to even bring up 'overpopulation'?







I am not talking about birth control.[/quote]

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

I appreciate your understanding of my feelings about PP. As I said, I don't feel I'm an isolated case.

---

I've met two people (a couple) who worked for Planned Parenthood and quit out of disgust for the organization. They said they were anti-abortion now.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Just what do you mean?

---

I already posted info about Kissinger's National Security Study Memorandum 200, as well as the quotes in post #113.

For more info, the following documentary would probably be a good start. It covers the global elite and their agenda, as well as the subject of eugenics and depopulation.

Endgame (trailer)
Anonym zu www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkgGOFXuYPw

Endgame (documentary)
Anonym zu video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261

Endgame bibliography
Anonym zu www.endgamethemovie.com/biblio01.html

lecture by filmmaker
Anonym zu video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4549873366067443695

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

There are too many humans in some biomes, so that they are degrading the environment. Environmental disaster leading to starvation and death happened on Easter Island long ago with a small number of people,

---

What are you talking about Sylph?

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by wikki:

A series of devastating events killed or removed almost the entire population of Easter Island in the 1860s. In December 1862, Peruvian slave raiders struck Easter Island. Violent abductions continued for several months, eventually capturing or killing around 1500 men and women, about half of the island's population. A dozen islanders managed to return from their slavery, but brought with them smallpox and started an epidemic, which reduced the island's population to the point where some of the dead were not even buried. Contributing to the chaos were violent clan wars with the remaining people fighting over the newly available lands of the deceased, bringing further famine and death among the dwindling population. The first Christian missionary, Eugène Eyraud, brought tuberculosis to the island in 1867 which took a quarter of the island's remaining population of 1,200.

---

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rdman-Cult.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/c...gnify-clip.png
Motu Nui islet, part of the Birdman Cult ceremony

I'm sorry, I thought most people knew about Easter Island's earlier history due to the popularity of Jared Diamond's books.

Jared Diamond, Easter Island's End
Easter Island's End
By Jared Diamond, in Discover Magazine
August 1995
Excerpt:
In just a few centuries, the people of Easter Island wiped out their forest, drove their plants and animals to extinction, and saw their complex society spiral into chaos and cannibalism. Are we about to follow their lead?
(body of article)
By now the meaning of Easter Island for us should be chillingly obvious. Easter Island is Earth writ small. Today, again, a rising population confronts shrinking resources. We too have no emigration valve, because all human societies are linked by international transport, and we can no more escape into space than the Easter Islanders could flee into the ocean. If we continue to follow our present course, we shall have exhausted the world's major fisheries, tropical rain forests, fossil fuels, and much of our soil by the time my sons reach my current age.

Every day newspapers report details of famished countries-Afghanistan, Liberia, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Somalia, the former Yugoslavia, Zaire-where soldiers have appropriated the wealth or where central government is yielding to local gangs of thugs. With the risk of nuclear war receding, the threat of our ending with a bang no longer has a chance of galvanizing us to halt our course. Our risk now is of winding down, slowly, in a whimper. Corrective action is blocked by vested interests, by well-intentioned political and business leaders, and by their electorates, all of whom are perfectly correct in not noticing big changes from year to year. Instead, each year there are just somewhat more people, and somewhat fewer resources, on Earth. It would be easy to close our eyes or to give up in despair. If mere thousands of Easter Islanders with only stone tools and their own muscle power sufficed to destroy their society, how can billions of people with metal tools and machine power fail to do worse? But there is one crucial difference. The Easter Islanders had no books and no histories of other doomed societies. Unlike the Easter Islanders, we have histories of the past-information that can save us. My main hope for my sons' generation is that we may now choose to learn from the fates of societies like Easter's.

d-cat, I am offended by your implication that I would in any way be in favor of eugenics or some "mad scientist" plot to "control population"! As I've said before, Sanger was flawed but perhaps not as horrible as her detractors make her out to be. The bottom line was that she believed in giving women the power to control their own fertility. She was anti-abortion in her later years, and hoped that birth control would make abortions unnecessary.
The anti global warming guy you quoted, Seitz, was affiliated with the Rockefeller University and was on the CFR. So by your logic, anything he says is suspect. People are complex. It's not all "black or white". It's impossible to plug everyone in to some 'vast conspiracy'.

from Wikipedia:

Quote:

---

Sanger remains a controversial figure. While she is widely credited as a leader of the modern birth control movement, and remains an iconic figure for the American reproductive rights movements, pro-life groups condemn Sanger's views, attributing her efforts to promote birth control to a desire to "purify" the human race through eugenics, and even to eliminate minority races by placing birth control clinics in minority neighborhoods.[26] Despite allegations of racism, Sanger's work with minorities earned the respect of civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King, Jr.[27] In their biographical article about Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood notes:

In 1930, Sanger opened a family planning clinic in Harlem that sought to enlist support for contraceptive use and to bring the benefits of family planning to women who were denied access to their city's health and social services. Staffed by a black physician and black social worker, the clinic was endorsed by The Amsterdam News (the powerful local newspaper), the Abyssinian Baptist Church, the Urban League, and the black community's elder statesman, W.E.B. DuBois.[28]

Although Sanger's views on abortion changed throughout the course of her life,[citation needed] in her early years she was acutely aware of the problem of abortion, typically self-induced or with the aid of a midwife. Her opposition to abortion stemmed primarily from a concern for the dangers to the mother rather than moral issues.[29] She wrote in a 1916 edition of Family Limitation, "no one can doubt that there are times when an abortion is justifiable," though she framed this in the context of her birth control advocacy, adding that "abortions will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception. (Care is) the only cure for abortions." Sanger consistently regarded birth control and abortion as the responsibility and burden first and foremost of women, and as matters of law, medicine and public policy second.[30

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

I'm sorry, (In case you're squeamish and consider rats inedible, I still recall recipes for creamed laboratory rat that my British biologist friends used to supplement their diet during their years of wartime food rationing.)

---

Thanks for the update.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by MsTerry:

Thanks for the update.

---

Mmmmm, creamed lab rat! Just an example of Diamond's tasty prose. His enthusiasm about his topic is infectious.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

d-cat, I am offended by your implication that I would in any way be in favor of eugenics or some "mad scientist" plot to "control population"!

---

What implication are you referring to please? Is it because I quoted you?

Quote:

---

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

---

It seemed to me that you were defending Rockefeller.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

As I've said before, Sanger was flawed but perhaps not as horrible as her detractors make her out to be. The bottom line was that she believed in giving women the power to control their own fertility. She was anti-abortion in her later years, and hoped that birth control would make abortions unnecessary.

---

Sanger was "flawed"? My opinion of her is much worse.

“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

- Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon’s Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

The anti global warming guy you quoted, Seitz, was affiliated with the Rockefeller University and was on the CFR. So by your logic, anything he says is suspect.
from Wikipedia:

---

Which post please? If this is true, thanks for the info.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

People are complex. It's not all "black or white". It's impossible to plug everyone in to some 'vast conspiracy'.

---

I agree with the above. But why do you say this? I don't think everything is black or white. Do you really think I was trying to plug everyone into some vast conspiracy?

Conspiracies do exist. There was a great effort made by the conspirators through the media to make people believe that they don't exist. That the idea of a conspiracy is silly. They've made it a derogatory term. "Oh, that's a conspiracy" = "That's not true" or "That's crazy." Even Bushy boy got involved.

Anonym zu www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

The public seems to have lost the true meaning of the word...

con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

Quote:

---

Judging from what you've posted, you think it's ok to carry out genocide. You are so "sure" that the planet has reached its capacity. But the only thing you can really be sure of is that we are being told this. I've looked into who it is that's saying this, and why. If there are indeed too many people on the planet, what would happen? People would die. So why kill them first, especially if there's a chance that they're wrong, or that something could change?

I find it interesting that Sylph supports both population reduction and vaccinations.

---

These are the implications that are so outrageous! The idea that I support genocide or population 'reduction' by thinking that it is good that women around the world have access to birth control and safe abortions? From an earlier post of mine above, 78,000 women die yearly from unsafe abortions, and this is a common cause of death of women in Kenya. Even if the founder of Planned Parenthood was flawed, as we've discussed and agreed, PP is saving women, not killing them.
Vaccinations save lives. I can't change your mind about them, but lack of them lead to the deaths of millions of children. The best way to 'commit genocide', if you were that sick, would be to withhold vaccines.

Is it possible that a rich guy might want to do something good occasionally for his legacy? Is it realistic to believe that everything Rockefeller ever did was somehow linked with his evil plan for genocide, etc?
Rockefeller lost a son to scarlet fever, then founded Rockefeller U. Scientists from RU have discovered life saving medical treatments.The Rockefeller University - History
(Anti-global warming Seitz was president of RU.)

In the link you posted, Frederick Seitz’ name was prominent, so I tried to find out more about him.
Environmental Effects of increased carbon dioxide:Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide - Global Warming Petition Project
“Letter from Frederick Seitz
Research Review of Global Warming Evidence
Enclosed is a twelve-page review of information on the subject of "global warming," a petition in the form of a reply card, and a return envelope. Please consider these materials carefully.
The United States is very close to adopting an international agreement that would ration the use of energy and of technologies that depend upon coal, oil, and natural gas and some other organic compounds.
This treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful.”
He was an interesting guy, here is his obituary:
Frederick Seitz, 96, Physicist, Led Rockefeller University - March 6, 2008 - The New York Sun
As you can see, he was a member of several elite groups, including the CFR.

Quote:

---

I don't think everything is black or white. Do you really think I was trying to plug everyone into some vast conspiracy?

Conspiracies do exist. There was a great effort made by the conspirators through the media to make people believe that they don't exist. That the idea of a conspiracy is silly. They've made it a derogatory term. "Oh, that's a conspiracy" = "That's not true" or "That's crazy." Even Bushy boy got involved.

---

d-cat, I am sorry, but it seems that you see a conspiracy in just about everything, to the point that it's overwhelming to try to follow and research everything you post. I don't want to imply that you're crazy or haven't done a lot of reading about these issues or see everything as black or white. I respect your passion.
I am sure conspiracies do exist among the elite. I am also cynical about all politics, from both (all) sides. I am extremely suspicious of the media, especially TV/video. Case in point, Fox news with it's booming sound and garish red, white and blue graphics. Video editors can use tiny cut-up sound bites, ominous music, flashing pictures of Hitler and storm troupers to make an emotional point (the first Alex Jones video you posted). The implicit point in that video was that anyone who ever uttered the phrase "new world order" or attended Bilderberg is: evil, all-powerful, united in intent, focused on enslaving the world, etc.
Perhaps the best use of our time and energy is working to make sure we retain (or get back) our personal liberties laid out under the Bill of Rights. Also, I would be in favor of helping women around the world have control over their own fertility, even if it meant supporting an imperfect organization like Planned Parenthood.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

These are the implications that are so outrageous!

---

I'm glad to understand more clearly your position on genocide and eugenics. My statement was in response to your post which could be taken another way:

Quote:

---

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

---

Of course I don't know you and can only go by what you've posted. But now that I know you better, I'd like to say that I'm sorry for having offended you. But be aware, there are people who support these things. In powerful positions too.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

The idea that I support genocide or population 'reduction' by thinking that it is good that women around the world have access to birth control and safe abortions?

---

No, I didn't think you supported that for those reasons. And I do not think that anyone who supports birth control and safe abortions also supports genocide or eugenics.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Vaccinations save lives. I can't change your mind about them, but lack of them lead to the deaths of millions of children. The best way to 'commit genocide', if you were that sick, would be to withhold vaccines.

---

But you see, I've seen info that suggests otherwise. I've seen info that suggests they are being done to hurt lives, just like with fluoride, mercury, aspartame... I find it quite possible that they may be carrying out their (now declassified) plan of population reduction in third world countries, under the guise of humanitarianism. Dr. Laibow of the Natural Solutions Foundation, who has been exposing and opposing Codex Alimentarius, has reported that women in third world countries run away in horror when the vaccine administrators arrive, because "they know what it does to their babies." Combine that with similar stories about sterilization, and the documents like Kissinger's Memorandum 200, and I think one can understand that the idea of forced vaccinations (and without any liability too) within our own "free" country is a real concern for many people. Because I believe medical decisions are a personal matter, it bothers me to think that that decision might be left up to a government that has shown they place lobbyists over people; a government that permits fluoride, aspartame, melamine, etc.; the same powers that are responsible for wars, for the deaths of millions of innocents in the Middle East, for torture. Some of these powerful people and companies were connected to the Nazis. They took over medical schools to teach that their profitable prescription medicine is the way to good health. I posted an MSNBC report on this thread about Bayer knowingly selling an aids-tainted drug that was primarily used on children. For me, there is ample evidence to give me reason to distrust them.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Is it possible that a rich guy might want to do something good occasionally for his legacy? Is it realistic to believe that everything Rockefeller ever did was somehow linked with his evil plan for genocide, etc?
Rockefeller lost a son to scarlet fever, then founded Rockefeller U. Scientists from RU have discovered life saving medical treatments.The Rockefeller University - History
(Anti-global warming Seitz was president of RU.)

---

I can only suggest that you continue looking into the Rockefeller family and/or the NWO. And to not be dismissive of every "conspiracy" site, for reasons I gave in my previous post. The Rockefellers have long been very powerful, and have much influence over society. They are responsible for our dependence on (their) oil. In the video lecture on laetrile (The Science & Politics of Cancer), G. Edward Griffin explains the reason for their philantrophy, as well as how they gained control over medical institutions. The Rockefellers are supposedly behind the NEA (via the UN) who I understand makes up our school curriculum. I haven't researched that one out yet, but I do question why we aren't being educated about important subjects like what the Federal Reserve is, or about false flag operations in our history books and classes. Edward Griffin has a long history of exposing important topics to the public, such as the Federal Reserve and the UN. I will be posting his '84 interview with Soviet KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov which should open a few people's eyes to just how big the deception is.

Thanks for the info on Seitz. This info is of interest to me from a few different angles, and is appreciated.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

d-cat, I am sorry, but it seems that you see a conspiracy in just about everything

---

It may seem that way, because the things I post about here and the things that I feel threaten our liberty are conspiracy related. That is, involving a (secretive) group or groups being subversive. Also, is it possible that the belief that I see conspiracies in everything might sometimes partly be due to a reader's own conclusion on the subjects I post about, as the great majority of my posts are simply news stories. I don't like to pontificate about what's going on, I'd much rather just show it. The Obama thread for example.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Video editors can use tiny cut-up sound bites, ominous music, flashing pictures of Hitler and storm troupers to make an emotional point (the first Alex Jones video you posted).

---

If you're talking about EndGame, those images of nazis & storm troopers are related to the subject. But there is a lot of evidence that something really big is taking place besides just what Alex says. For example, there is info on the numerous secret detention camps we now have in our country in the Revolution thread (WaccoTalk), including a SF Chronicle article.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

The implicit point in that video was that anyone who ever uttered the phrase "new world order" or attended Bilderberg is: evil, all-powerful, united in intent, focused on enslaving the world, etc.

---

Not just anyone who ever uttered the phrase, but world leaders. They used to say the NWO was nonsense, that it was some crazy "conspiracy theory", but now the world leaders are actually using the term. Now they are promoting it. And we are now coming face to face with the orchestrated and/or fabricated crises that will be used to implement it, just as they said. I have been following the subject long enough to have seen that a lot of what was expected has come true, with more to follow. I feel so strongly that our freedom is under threat that I pretty much have devoted the last few years of my life to continue the research and to get the word out, while encouraging people to prepare for very difficult times ahead. I put up with all the disdain and insults and ridicule because I understand this stuff is unimaginable. And I understand this isn't what people want to hear. But I also understand that I must do this.

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
- Arthur Shopenhauer

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Sylph:

Perhaps the best use of our time and energy is working to make sure we retain (or get back) our personal liberties laid out under the Bill of Rights. Also, I would be in favor of helping women around the world have control over their own fertility, even if it meant supporting an imperfect organization like Planned Parenthood.

---

I'd focus on the former, or you won't even have a say in the latter. I believe it's do-or-die time now, people. Our liberty is at stake. So my question is, what are we made of? Have we been dumbed-down to the point where we're just naiive fluoridated tv watchers who can't even recognize when their government is being taken over; who now only obey authority, rather than question or challenge it?

There is a revolution going on. There is an info wars going on. Their tricks won't work on an informed public. They use the 'Problem-Reaction-Solution' paradigm (also known as the Hegelian Dialect). Deception is the name of their game. But millions are waking up. Millions are catching on to the fact that they try to keep us divided and fighting amongst ourselves, so that we won't unite against them. Unfortunately, many more millions have not woken up yet. They still believe the world works as is presented. They still believe mainstream news and newspapers keep us informed. They still believe they've been educated. They still believe Obama will bring change and move us in a different direction. They still believe the election process is fair. That merely protesting will change things. That the government will solve our problems and take care of us. And the longer it takes for them to wake up, the less of a chance we'll have to do something about it.

They are stealing your freedom. They are stealing your country. They are stealing your money. Your home. Your investments. Your pension. Your standard of living. Your privacy. Your security. Your health. Your food. Your thoughts. They are stealing your very life as you've known it, and it won't be too long before all this becomes painfully obvious.

Are we just gonna ignore it and let them get away with it?



"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it.
- Ayn Rand

"The greatest glory of a freeborn people is to transmit that freedom to their children."
- William Harward

"No Man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation."
- General Douglas MacArthur



"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.... The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases."
- Thomas Jefferson


George Carlin on the American Dream
(5 min - adult language)
Anonym zu www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

[quote=d-cat;81825]

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
- Arthur Shopenhauer
[quote/]

d-cat, when I began to learn about these "conspiracy theories" I presented them to a colleague who had worked both in management at Union Carbide and later overseas in the federal government. I fully expected him to laugh at them and was rather surprised by his response. He all but patted me on the head and said in a rather condescending tone, "That's the way the world works. Get used to it."

I do not consider this person to be evil in the sense we think of as evil. He has a long record of working to improve the local community and sees himself as someone dedicated to making the world a better place. At the same time I have overheard him in conversations that I found disturbing. He's a resident of Sebastopol so understand that they walk among us.

Meanwhile, to get back to the original topic of the thread I am posting the following:

Rivers of Life and Death
Part 1
Dehydration, Blood Chi, Zeta Potential,
Mercury. Aluminum, Vaccines, Vitamin C

In humans, the three most common factors that reduce
the carrying capacity of the blood are bulk stress from
dehydration, aluminum toxicity, and electrolyte imbalance.

The significance of proper blood circulation can not be over emphasized. The ability of our heart to pump blood throughout our body efficiently and effectively is the cornerstone of good health. Unfortunately, there are things that interfere with our heart’s ability to effectively move blood through our veins and arteries with a lack of hydration being a basic backdrop to other aggressive insults that starve and damage other parts of the body due to poor circulation.

Dehydration (1) is one of the most
overlooked and basic causes of disease.

The root cause of degenerative disease comes from the body being unable to keep up with basic physiological functions, which leads to greater wear and tear. When the body for any reason cannot deliver the necessary nutrients and carry away metabolic wastes we set up the conditions for serious chronic disease. Many problems in the vascular system can upset this vital life process and dehydration often underlies vascular deficiency. Dehydration is not thought of as degenerative disease but dehydration leads to deterioration damage, because nutrient and waste flows can be greatly diminished and even cut off at strategic points in the body.

Low level dehydration guarantees the initiation
of chronic pathology of one type or another.

Sepsis, or what is known as blood poisoning, causes increased capillary stopped-flow, loss of capillary density, and maldistribution of blood flow. In response to an injury or infection, the immune system deploys an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons to annihilate bacteria or viruses. Immune cells called macrophages swarm into motion, devouring microbes and squirting out toxic substances to sterilize a wound. More cells pour in and continue to unleash lethal chemicals. The crossfire damages healthy tissues, which become inflamed—red, hot, swollen, and painful.

Sounds like a typical vaccine reaction. Generally the way vaccines work is that they contain a virus and substances called ‘adjuvants’ and preservatives (like mercury and aluminum) that kick the immune system into overdrive so that they go on the hunt for the viruses, eat ‘um up, and create antibodies against further infection. Unfortunately the immune system goes haywire and attacks what ever is in sight. The result can be an autoimmune disorder. When the immune system attacks the pancreas you have Type 1 Diabetes.

As we will see in its own section, ‘Aluminum’ is used in water treatment plants to cause materials to settle out of solution. It does this by reducing what is called zeta potential. In children’s bodies aluminum does the same thing, causing coagulation of the blood, and deposits and plaques in arteries, brain and throughout the body. Whoever thought of the idea of injecting heavy metals into children or anyone else should have been shot but the practice goes back to the early 1930s. The company that holds the most responsibility though is the Eli Lilly Company.

Hurting the blood more than they will ever know, pediatricians and general physicians deliberately inject heavy metals into the blood stream. As we will see these injections often have an immediate effect on blood chemistry and blood thermodynamics starting with microvascular ischemic changes (2) that sometimes ends in violent convulsive death for infants and young children. Most health care practitioners and doctors are not that aware of the blood and vascular system’s vulnerability especially when it is already compromised with slight to medium levels of dehydration.

Blood is a ‘colloid’ and in order to flow effectively, it must remain one, or clotting will occur from aggregation of its particles. - The colloidal properties of blood arise because its particles are immersed in a polar solvent/electrolyte solution, and surface charges have developed. They therefore have ionic characteristics and dipolar attributes, and are thus electrically charged. – Blood is a mixture of colloidal particles in a solution.

Colloidal particles dispersed in a solution are electrically charged due to their ionic characteristics and dipolar attributes. In colloid chemistry blood could easily be thought of as colloidal slurry and the principles that apply to any colloidal slurry or suspension also would apply to the blood. Each particle dispersed in a solution is surrounded by oppositely charged ions called the fixed layer. Scientists are able to measure these charges and call it the blood’s Zeta potential, which is a measure of the electrical force that exists between atoms, molecules, particles, and cells in a fluid. Acupuncturists and oriental medical doctors refer to this energy as blood chi.

Positively charged colloids cause coagulation; negatively charged
particles cause dispersion. In order for a mold, virus, bacteria or cancer
cell to grow, they must colonize. High zeta potential stops colonization.
Dr. Thomas Riddick

This chi or electromagnetic energy is at the center of red blood cell behavior as well as microbial proliferation. Zeta potential is the aggregate electrical charge of the blood colloid and this is controlled by pH and all the other elements found in the "soup". Zeta potential is the basis of blood’s colloidal properties. One of the greatest problems of low Zeta potential or low blood chi, which may be caused by higher acidity, is that toxins cannot be suspended for elimination or nutrients for absorption or transport to the cell, due to colloidal collapse and particle aggregation.

Zeta potential is a measure of the electrical force that exists
between atoms, molecules, particles, suspensoids, cells, etc.,
in a fluid. Zeta potential is a scientific parameter that can
be measured yet it directly corresponds to the Chi of the blood.

Dr. Thomas Riddick explains, “On a smaller scale, all trace metals, minerals, inorganic materials, proteins and amino acids are held in suspension not solution in liquids by an electrical charge. These very small particles are called colloids and are too small to see with the naked eye. Since colloids in suspension form chemical compounds (like ions in solution), the electrical properties of colloids are generally ignored. In liquids, the ability to carry material in suspension is a function of these minute electrical charges. As the negative charge increases, more material can be carried in suspension. As the charge decreases, the particles move closer to each other and the liquid is able to carry less material. There is a point where the ability to carry material in suspension is exceeded and particles begin to clump together, with the heavier metals or more positively charged colloids dropping out of the liquid and coagulating.”

The most important factor that affects zeta potential is pH.
The second most important factor is hydration.

The blood is 80 percent water thus hydration levels are extremely important in blood chemistry. Moderate dehydration, a 3-5% decrease in body weight due to fluid loss is sufficient to result in a substantial decrease in strength and endurance because of the decrease in oxygen carrying capacity of the blood signaling a drop in Zeta potential. Viscosity represents the stickiness and thickness of blood. It is the frictional resistance to blood flow. As the blood viscosity increases, blood flow decreases assuming that the heart maintains the same systolic pressure.

Electrical force, blood pH and Zeta potential are parallel concepts but no matter which word you choose (even blood chi) the crucial point is that these electrical and thus magnetic characteristics (controlled by blood pH) strength determines the amount of material (nutrients, wastes) that our blood and lymph can carry. Increasing the pH in the solution allows the fluid to dissolve and hold more material. In this way, more nutrients can be carried throughout your body and accumulated deposits of waste can be removed. Acidic blood carries a positive charge, and alkaline blood carries a negative charge. One of the side effects of acidic blood is to reduce the negative charge of colloids (combinations of molecules held in suspension) causing them to fall out of suspension thereby coagulating on the walls of the arteries similar to scale forming in a pipe. When it happens in an artery we call it Arteriolosclerosis.

High pH leads to cleaner blood. Dehydration
leads to acid blood condition and dirty blood.

As we can expect when blood becomes too acidic, driving down the zeta potential, blood begins to coagulate. This is a condition known as intravascular coagulation. Blood becomes a sludge that is increasingly difficult for the heart to pump, and decreasingly effective at performing the usual functions of blood. "Blood sludge" is widespread as acid foods, toxic (acid environments) acid emotions and even acid precipitating nutritional deficiencies all conspire to thicken our blood to the point it becomes more a sewer than a fresh flowing stream carrying life’s nutrients to the cells full of oxygen.

High negative charge is also bacterium-static. Negative charge dissipates.
In order for a bacterium, virus, fungus or cancer cell to grow,
it must colonize. High negative electrostatic charge stops colonization.

In this chapter we are going to show how much trouble is sourced in the blood and will pay especial attention to the immediate damage that is done when mercury and aluminum and other toxic poisons are injected directly into the blood. In this chapter we are going to find the brilliant work of Dr. Andrew Moulden who is taking his case to the Federal vaccine court in Washington. He has studied and mapped out what he calls a “MASS response” in the medium to small vessels of the body revealing damage to the endothelial linings of the micro vessels, which become the foci of ischemic necrosis and hypoxic brain injury.

Spiral flow through the blood vessels not only moves a larger
amount of fluid, but also it tends to clear out obstructions as it scours
the vessel walls. When the concentration of particles in a liquid becomes
too high, Zeta potential on colloids drops and spiral slow diminishes.

It is going to make our hearts sick to study and realize finally what is going on in so many men, women and children immediately after they have been vaccinated. He provides the missing link showing us that it is the vascular system that reacts first and this explains why there can be in infants spontaneous retinal bleeding, intra cerebral bleeding, ischemic brain damage and seizures strong enough to break bones. So violent can these seizures get that emergency room personal cannot tell the difference between vaccine damage and violent child abuse. Dr. Moulden says, “Unfortunately, the MASS response creates the same “pathognomonic signs” in vaccine adverse events as it does for children in need of protection.”

Researchers at Northwestern University have now shown how air pollution may cause heart attacks and strokes - by triggering the formation of blood clots. Dr. Gokhan Mutlu, the study's lead author and his colleagues found those tiny air pollution particles - often less than one tenth the width of a human hair in size - helped trigger clotting in the blood of mice. This is due to the pollution-induced secretion of interleukin-6, a pro-inflammatory cytokine, that has been implicated in the formation of blood clots. The heavy metals cadmium, lead and mercury are common air pollutants, being emitted mainly as a result of various industrial activities.

Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
Director International Medical Veritas Association
Winning The War On Cancer

Dr. Mark Sircus is the Director of Natural Allopathic Studies of the faculty of the DaVinci College of Holistic Medicine, an international school specializing in Holistic Medicine. Professor Sircus is also the director of oriental medical studies. A member of the International Association for Distance Learning, The DaVinci College of Holistic Medicine is accredited by the Complementary Medicine Association in the United Kingdom.

__________________________________________________


1. The term dehydration commonly is used to denote intravascular fluid depletion. However, it is important for clinicians to understand that volume depletion is distinct from dehydration. Volume depletion denotes contraction of the total intravascular plasma pool, while dehydration denotes loss of plasma-free water disproportionate to loss of sodium, the main intravascular solute. The distinction is important because volume depletion can exist with or without dehydration, and dehydration can exist with or without volume depletion. In children with dehydration, the most common underlying problem actually is volume depletion, not dehydration. Intravascular sodium levels are within the reference range, indicating that excess free water is not being lost from plasma. Rather, the entire plasma pool is contracted with solutes (mostly sodium) and solvents (mostly water) lost in proportionate quantities. This is volume depletion without dehydration. The most common cause is excessive extrinsic loss of fluids. Pediatric patients, especially those younger than 4 years, tend to be more susceptible to volume depletion as a result of vomiting, diarrhea, or increases in insensible water losses. Significant fluid losses may occur rapidly. The turnover of fluids and solute in infants and young children can be as much as 3 times that of adults.



2. After ischemia an incomplete return of blood flow has been reported in brain, kidney, skeletal muscle, and heart. The mechanisms responsible for the no-reflow phenomenon are perivascular edema, platelet or red cell plugs, and interstitial hemorrhage as well as leukocyte entrapment in capillaries. Leukocytes are large and stiff cells, which adhere to vascular endothelium naturally and are known to alter in their adherence properties under a variety of conditions. Skeletal muscle vasculature undergoes arteriogenesis to restore tissue perfusion and function following loss of blood flow. This process has been shown to occur in large vessels following ischemia, and recent studies suggest this may occur in the microcirculation as well. The recent refinement and computerization of intravital microscopy have permitted scientists to monitor microcirculation in vivo with minimal invasion. Video microscopy of red cell flow in capillaries at the surface of skeletal muscle provided the opportunity to quantitate ischemia-reperfusion (I-R) induced microcirculatory changes. The recovery of glomerular microcirculation seems to occur faster than that of peritubular capillaries. Scientists suggest that a functional vasculopathy develops very early in the course of ischemia-reperfusion in superficial cortical microvasculature and is more pronounced in peritubular capillaries, thus accounting for the development of patchy injury of tubular epithelia.



Legal Notice: The Author specifically invokes the First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and of the press without prejudice. The information written is published for informational purposes only under the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America, and should not in any way be used as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other licensed health care practitioner. The statements contained herein have not been evaluated by the FDA. The products discussed herein are not intended to diagnose, cure, prevent or treat any disease. Images, text and logic are copyright protected. ALL rights are explicitly reserved without prejudice, and no part of this essay may be reproduced except by written consent. ©2008 by Mark Sircus

I am going to pull out my my dehydrated medical degree (I keep it in the trunk of my car, with my bolt cutters, fire extinguisher, and other heavy tools).
The kindest thing I can think of to say about the writing of Dr. Sircus (or should it Dr.Circus, or Sircus Doctor?) is that it belongs in the compost heap.
His verbiage is impressive nonsense. He could be as dangerous to your health as a charming psychopath is, with that line of B.S. You might as well stick with conventional medicine. I am as anti-conventional mecidine as the next Sonoman. I am as against such medical nonsense as a strand of mRNA is against its parent strand of DNA.
I won't dignify his position with any specific comments or criticisms. I don't waste my time. I only do that if I'm being paid for it.
I will say that whenever I put out a pet theory ( I have plenty; see my post on vaccination earlier in this thread) I am careful to identify it as pure speculation ("hair brained" is how I usually put it).
I am not making this point to put a feather in my own thinking cap. It is simply basic decency to be honest and upfront with people, even more so when coming from a position of quasi-authority. As Albert so charmingly put it:
"God punished me for my contempt of authority by making me an authority myself". BTW, the new Einstein bio by Issaccson is superb, and changed my life. It was the only hardback book I purchased in 2008, and it is so good I will glady buy another copy (I would just check it out of the library again, but I am a slow reader. It took me a month to get through chapter one, which was alone was worth the price). Don't waste time, money or more importantly gray matter (or maybe its white matter, although I doubt it) on the likes of Dr. Sircus and his Sircular reasoning. I think we are at the point in history where if we want to increase our understanding of medical science, we need to give some of it up, rather than pile up more hemodynamics, or whatever the friggin' hell Dr.S. is doing. We probably need to throw out the whole virus theory thing, or conventional Mendelian genetics, or refine our view of how the CNS works. Maybe the best we can do is go back to conventional Chinese medicine, which makes more sense then you know who. I wish I knew the answer.
Jeffrey M. Reiser M.D.

Thanks for rehydrating your medical degree Dr. Jeff, and responding to the info re. Sircus. :):
So much of the "alternative" claims like Sircus' have truths mixed with half-truths and...nonsense.
There is talk of acid/base balance which has been discussed on the board. The point is that it is a delicately regulated mechanism and one doesn't want to try to mess around with it!
Of course, everyone needs to be optimally hydrated so the blood is not 'sludgy'. We've all heard what can happen on an airplane when we don't get enough to drink and can't move around much...blood clots! We also know that children are more vulnerable to dehydration, especially with vomiting, etc.
Dr. Riddick was an industrial chemist and engineer who thought it would be cool to combine the Zeta potential idea (of colloidal chemistry) with human physiology. (no medical degree!) It seems he invented and was selling some kind of device to test it in the body, which sounds weird. We've learned a lot more about the cause of heart attacks and strokes since the 1960s. It's mainstream, now, to try to manipulate a person's diet and lifestyle to lower cholesterol and other markers for these diseases. It's not as simple as just lowering cholesterol and, yes, we have more to learn about the causes of heart disease, etc.
Trying to mix all this up with vaccines and their alleged dangers is far-fetched.

Quote:

---

I think we are at the point in history where if we want to increase our understanding of medical science, we need to give some of it up, rather than pile up more hemodynamics, or whatever the friggin' hell Dr.S. is doing. We probably need to throw out the whole virus theory thing, or conventional Mendelian genetics, or refine our view of how the CNS works. Maybe the best we can do is go back to conventional Chinese medicine, which makes more sense then you know who. I wish I knew the answer.
Jeffrey M. Reiser M.D.

---

[/QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

d-cat, when I began to learn about these "conspiracy theories" I presented them to a colleague who had worked both in management at Union Carbide and later overseas in the federal government. I fully expected him to laugh at them and was rather surprised by his response. He all but patted me on the head and said in a rather condescending tone, "That's the way the world works. Get used to it."

I do not consider this person to be evil in the sense we think of as evil. He has a long record of working to improve the local community and sees himself as someone dedicated to making the world a better place. At the same time I have overheard him in conversations that I found disturbing. He's a resident of Sebastopol so understand that they walk among us.

---

These kind of people have to wake up too. I'm told that tyrannical powers have always rounded up and executed those who helped them rise to power - because they have proven themselves corruptible. I just posted an interview with a former KGB agent who defected to the US who says the same thing.
(see How To Brainwash a Nation thread)

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

Meanwhile, to get back to the original topic of the thread I am posting the following:

As we will see these injections often have an immediate effect on blood chemistry and blood thermodynamics starting with microvascular ischemic changes (2) that sometimes ends in violent convulsive death for infants and young children.

---

Thanks for the info. btw I heard a father's account of the above in the first couple minutes of this '98 documentary from down under:

Vaccination - The Hidden Truth -
This is the shocking but extremely informative video documentary Vaccination - The Hidden Truth (1998) where fifteen people, including Dr. Viera Scheibner (a PhD researcher), five medical doctors, and other researchers, reveal what is really going on in relation to illness and vaccines. Ironically, the important facts come from orthodox medicine's own peer-reviewed research. With so much government and medical promotion of vaccination for prevention of disease, the video is clearly devoted to presenting the other side of the issue that parents and others are not being told.

Vaccination - The Hidden Truth

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

The company that holds the most responsibility though is the Eli Lilly Company.

---

You mean these guys?

Eli Lilly Pays $1.42 Billion for Illegal Marketing of Deadly Drug
Zyprexa causes severe neurological problems in children and can be deadly for the elderly, and it has no proven benefit for either -- but Eli Lilly marketed the antipsychotic to them anyway.
https://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_b...rug-75288.aspx


Marketing Lilly's Phony 'Miracle' Drug Zyprexa
Created to treat schizophrenia, Zyprexa wound up being used on misbehaving kids. How the pharmaceutical industry turned a flawed and dangerous drug into a $16 billion bonanza
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...07/bitter_pill

Gardasil WARNING! - CNN Report 8.11.8
YouTube - Gardasil WARNING! - CNN Report 8.11.8

CNN: Should parents worry about HPV vaccine?
Should parents worry about HPV vaccine? - CNN.com

CBS: Is HPV Vaccine Safe?
YouTube - Is HPV Vaccine Safe?

Gardasil HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed
YouTube - Gardasil HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed

Ashley's story
The HPV vaccine: Ashley Ryburn tells her story
Ashley's story : Related : The Rocky Mountain News

Shocking True Story
news report on vaccines

Spain withdraws suspect Gardasil batch
Spanish drug regulators have ordered a temporary halt to use of a single batch of Merck & Co’s cervical cancer vaccine Gardasil after two girls became sick after receiving the injection, according to Reuters. The country’s Health Ministry said that vaccines from Gardasil batch NH52670, nearly 80,000 of which have already been distributed, would no longer be administered following the adverse event report by health authorities in Valencia last week...
Spain withdraws suspect Gardasil batch


Wichita Teen Says She's Dying From Vaccine
A Wichita teen and her mother want a popular vaccine taken off the market. Doctors say Gardasil is killing the 16-year-old. The drug is used to prevent the HPV virus which causes cervical cancer. The makers of Gardasil recommend girls and young women ages 9-26 get the vaccine to protect them from the virus that causes cervical cancer. Twenty-eight women have reportedly died from Gardasil...
Wichita Teen Says She's Dying From Vaccine


Gardasil:One Mom's Story (CBS)
YouTube - Gardasil:One Mom's Story


Rat Poison Chemical Found in Ingredient List For HPV Vaccine
Rat Poison Chemical Found in Ingredient List For HPV Vaccine

I haven't made up my mind about Guardisil, yet, but one thing I am sure of:
Anti-vaccine folks will always find something horrible in the vaccines to focus on...
The 'sodium borate as deadly toxin' is bogus. It's all about the dose! So many things in our natural environments would kill us if greatly multiplied...like arsenic in apricot pits...OK in small doses, deadly in large quantities. Too much iron is bad for us, too, and there are many examples of 'tiny amount: beneficial or OK'.... 'large amount: poison'.
I used the borate powder as a 'natural flea repellent' years ago and it worked. Maybe it damaged my brain and that's why I'm generally pro-vaccine!:wink:
Science-Based Medicine » HPV vaccination misinformation and bias in Medscape
David Gorski under Politics and Regulation, Public Health, Science and the Media, Vaccines

Quote:

---

Members of the antivaccine movement point to a number of potential perils, including the presence of aluminum in injections. Like many vaccines, Gardasil contains aluminum salts. Each 0.5-mL dose contains approximately 225 μg of aluminum, 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 μcg of polysorbate 80, 35 μg of sodium borate, and water.
Oh, no! Toxins! We’re poisoning the children! Won’t you help?!
….let me assure you that anti-vaccine advocates know the significance of mentioning borate (it’s a “roach killer,” don’t you know?) or polysorbate 80, (it’s been linked to infertility in mice–supposedly). Remember my old “toxins” post, and you’ll see how ridiculous these gambits are. For example, the rat study of the effects of polysorbate 80 injected rats with amounts of the chemical that, by body weight, were incredibly high; nowhere near that amount is found in vaccines on a per weight basis. Similarly, I can’t figure out why L-histidine was included in this list. Histidine is an amino acid that’s found in virtually every protein in the body. It’s also an essential amino acid in growing children.

---

Science-Based Medicine » Toxic myths about vaccines

Quote:

---

Of course, this list (ingredients in any vaccine) does contain a number of chemicals that do sound really scary. However, if you remember the pharmacological principle that “the dose makes the poison,” they are much less so. These chemicals are all present at extremely low concentrations in vaccines, certainly not at any dangerous levels. Moreover, some of the fearmongering about such seemingly scary toxins betrays a serious lack of understanding of basic chemistry.

---

https://www.layscience.net/?q=aggreg...rces/76&page=2
Some basic chemistry-math:

Quote:

---

Hmm. While it's (sodium borate) used as an insecticide, Wikipedia doesn't list it being used as a rodenticide. According to Wikipedia (I know - not exactly the world's most accurate of sources, but good enough to counter this kind of sh*t), the median lethal dose in rats (which is probably where the "Rat Poison" line comes from) is 2.66g/kg. So, if, for the sake of argument, we assume a similar figure for humans… Let's take a ten stone human being. That's about 63.5kg. The lethal dose would therefore be (63.5 * 2.66g) - about 169 grams. Getting on for half a pound.

How much is there in a Gardasil injection? Well, a Gardasil dose is 0.5ml. If we consider the vaccine to have the same density as water, that's a total mass of 0.5 grams. The Gardasil leaflet doesn't list the actual mass of sodium borate, but it does list the mass of other ingredients up to 20 micrograms, so we can assume that the amount of sodium borate is less than 20 micrograms. (In fact it's likely to be trace, but I'm giving the nutters the benefit of the doubt here). 20 micrograms. 0.00002 grams. Or, at maximum, about one eight-and-a-half-millionth of a lethal dose - probably far less.

---

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:

Finland suspends swine flu vaccines after neurological damage to children*emerges
https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/201...ldren-emerges/

Narcolepsy diagnosed in 41 children vaccinated for H1N1 last year
https://www.hs.fi/english/article/Na.../1135262379639

Flu vaccination ban goes national after fever, convulsions in children
https://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/f...0423-tglp.html

Side effects of flu vaccine warned of
https://www.koreaherald.com/national...20100827000668

India halt vaccine programmes after the deaths of four children
https://www.weeklyblitz.net/962/indi...ter-the-deaths

Twins die minutes after measles vaccination
https://www.indianexpress.com/news/t...nation/682747/

Polio from vaccine: India confirms two cases
https://www.indianexpress.com/news/P...o-cases/475202

Vaccine scare in Ukraine threatens health
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2987591...h-health_care/

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:

---

I won't read those articles because it's pointless to attempt teaching science here on Wacco. I give up. Those headlines are not data, of course, and I can bet the articles don't contain any either. It's typical for someone who doesn't understand science or statistics to post a long list of links instead of actually posting the important data from an article. I've read many such links and I'm rarely, if ever, taught anything.

Four children died? Out of how many? What killed them? How many children who were not vaccinated died of the same causes? Was there any cause and effect or was there not? Was the vaccination program stopped because cause and effect was established? ... or was the more likely cause mass hysteria by an ignorant population that doesn't understand the difference? Witch hunting goes on. It's just that good medicine is now so often playing the part of the witchcraft and good doctors and pharmaceutical companies the parts of the witches.

So hang the witches. Let your children die. Darwin rules.

-Jeff

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...5709#post95709

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

---

:hmmm:Hmmm, so I got curious:thinking:...

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

---

...So I kept reading...

...Then I went to the link provided & got here:... https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

...That post (written by d-cat) had a link that used this URL: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...html#post71553

{RE:} (

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

---

)

...even though it seemed to me to be off-topic I tried it anyway.

It went to a “page that said:

“Not Found The requested URL /forums/waccotalk/37657-al-gore-global-warming-agenda-4.html was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

...So as of yet, I do not think you (OrchardDweller) owe any apologies.
I also (based on this thread as of yet); do not think you have adequately made your case for Braggi to make any apologies either....

...However it would be interesting to hear (read) your explanation of exactly what you were trying to convey...

...Anyway, back to the actual topic: Read (the) below article by Benjamin Radford Thu Jan 6, 2011 08:28 AM ET;

Vaccine-Autism Doctor Accused of 'Deliberate Fraud' An infamous 1998 medical journal report by Andrew Wakefield, the doctor whose research sparked international concern over whether or not childhood vaccines cause autism, "was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud," according to Dr. Fiona Godlee, editor in chief of BMJ, formerly known as the British Medical Journal. The statement appeared in an editorial on BMJ’s Web site. Wakefield had previously been found guilty by a British panel of acting unethically in his research on autism. Wakefield was the lead author a small-scale 1998 case report published in The Lancet that suggested a link between vaccines and the onset of childhood autism. The study was immediately seized upon by anti-vaccination advocates, including actress and model Jenny McCarthy. SEE ALSO: Jenny McCarthy Dismisses Pediatrics Study on Autism In January, the General Medical Council (GMC) concluded that Wakefield participated in "dishonesty and misleading conduct" while he conducted the research. The Lancet reviewed his original study and issued a complete retraction: "It has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al. are incorrect ... in particular, the claims in the original paper that children were 'consecutively referred' and that investigations were 'approved' by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record." Dr. Godlee said the BMJ and investigator Brian Deer uncovered "clear evidence of falsification" of Wakefield’s data. Godlee's editorial states that "Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients' medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns." SEE ALSO: Autism Linked to Dozens of Genetic Mutations Dr. Wakefield's research has been questioned for years, and the ethics violations are only the latest nail in the coffin for the claim that vaccines cause autism; several large-scale studies have found no evidence of any link. Still, the anti-vaccination movement will march on despite the fact that the only scientific research that supports their position was conducted by a discredited, unethical researcher. As Godlee noted, "perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion, and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it."

:2cents:...And finally, I suggest that we consider this thread topic as it stands on its own without going so seemingly off-topic to ‘prove’ someone “wrong” just to have such an unproductive argument.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

---

??? por que?
something he said about knowing what's in bills being voted on?? I'm confused....

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/12...or-big-pharma/
Most people don’t realize that Dr. Wakefield is a ‘pro-vaccine’ doctor who should get credit for acting as a professional, NO MATTER THE COST. This so-called ‘revelation’ by lame stream media’s very own ‘Mail on-line’ (a corporate / state media giant in the UK) is really NO revelation of facts what-so-ever.

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/02...ice-eddy-case/
The corporate media is having a ‘field day’ with The General Medical Council’s ‘ruling’ that Dr. Wakefield fudged data on the connection between vaccines and autism. What corporate media doesn’t inform the general public on what THEY call a “court decision” is that the General Medical Council IS NOT A COURT OF LAW. As Barbra Loe Fisher accurately describes this so-called court:

“The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law; it is rather a medical court of opinion, where doctors can sanction other doctors and, in effect, hang their own.”

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/05...nt-listen-too/
It becomes crystal clear WHY the main stream media doesn’t want to ‘allow’ him to tell his side of the story. The interviews go FAR BEYOND the kangaroo court findings. Dr. Wakefield seems very confident the professional ‘which haunt’ against him is going to backfire in a very big way. He says the independent research done outside of his work confirms what he has been saying all along and the ‘claim’ his finding “can’t be replicated” WILL BE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD. Also, the ’12 children experimented on’ accusation is also going to blow up in the faces of the establishment that COOKED THAT ‘CLAIM’ UP as well.
His book "Callous Disregard: Autism and Vaccines: The Truth Behind a Tragedy" should be read as well to get the other side of Dr. Wakefield's story before condemning the man.

Dr. Wakefield has held his first interviews since the UK smear campaign and is now clear and free to tell HIS SIDE OF THE STORY. Take a look at this interview after he was allowed to discuss what happened. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...interview.aspx [full transcription https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Ex...wWakefield.pdf ]

Dr. Wakefield stated quite clearly that he had been ‘vindicated’ many times over BEFORE his own personal ‘Medical Inquisition’ (and by the lame stream corporate media) had crucified him and his research. Dr. Wakefield made it quite clear in his interview with Dr. Mercola that MANY universities / researchers verified the so-called controversial research he had done and, IN TIME, the public would become aware of what THE MEDICAL / SCIENCE COMMUNITIES ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE LINK. The reason why universities and researchers DO NOT like to advertise that their studies confirm Dr. Wakefield’s is that they will have their funding yanked at minimum or be ‘Wakefielded’ themselves. What this all means is the very establishment that set out to hang Dr. Wakefield has been essentially lying to the public at the expense of Dr. Wakefield AND all those affected by vaccine damage. That’s a ‘revelation’ that really wouldn’t surprise too many people in this day and age.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:

:hmmm:Hmmm, so I got curious:thinking:...

...So I kept reading...

...Then I went to the link provided & got here:... https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

...That post (written by d-cat) had a link that used this URL: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...html#post71553

{RE:} ()

...even though it seemed to me to be off-topic I tried it anyway.

It went to a “page that said:

“Not Found The requested URL /forums/waccotalk/37657-al-gore-global-warming-agenda-4.html was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

...So as of yet, I do not think you (OrchardDweller) owe any apologies.
I also (based on this thread as of yet); do not think you have adequately made your case for Braggi to make any apologies either....

...However it would be interesting to hear (read) your explanation of exactly what you were trying to convey...

...Anyway, back to the actual topic: Read (the) below article by Benjamin Radford Thu Jan 6, 2011 08:28 AM ET;

Vaccine-Autism Doctor Accused of 'Deliberate Fraud' An infamous 1998 medical journal report by Andrew Wakefield, the doctor whose research sparked international concern over whether or not childhood vaccines cause autism, "was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud," according to Dr. Fiona Godlee, editor in chief of BMJ, formerly known as the British Medical Journal. The statement appeared in an editorial on BMJ’s Web site. Wakefield had previously been found guilty by a British panel of acting unethically in his research on autism. Wakefield was the lead author a small-scale 1998 case report published in The Lancet that suggested a link between vaccines and the onset of childhood autism. The study was immediately seized upon by anti-vaccination advocates, including actress and model Jenny McCarthy. SEE ALSO: Jenny McCarthy Dismisses Pediatrics Study on Autism In January, the General Medical Council (GMC) concluded that Wakefield participated in "dishonesty and misleading conduct" while he conducted the research. The Lancet reviewed his original study and issued a complete retraction: "It has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al. are incorrect ... in particular, the claims in the original paper that children were 'consecutively referred' and that investigations were 'approved' by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record." Dr. Godlee said the BMJ and investigator Brian Deer uncovered "clear evidence of falsification" of Wakefield’s data. Godlee's editorial states that "Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients' medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns." SEE ALSO: Autism Linked to Dozens of Genetic Mutations Dr. Wakefield's research has been questioned for years, and the ethics violations are only the latest nail in the coffin for the claim that vaccines cause autism; several large-scale studies have found no evidence of any link. Still, the anti-vaccination movement will march on despite the fact that the only scientific research that supports their position was conducted by a discredited, unethical researcher. As Godlee noted, "perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion, and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it."

:2cents:...And finally, I suggest that we consider this thread topic as it stands on its own without going so seemingly off-topic to ‘prove’ someone “wrong” just to have such an unproductive argument.

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

...What corporate media doesn’t inform the general public on what THEY call a “court decision” is that the General Medical Council IS NOT A COURT OF LAW. As Barbra Loe Fisher accurately describes this so-called court:

“The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law; it is rather a medical court of opinion, where doctors can sanction other doctors and, in effect, hang their own.”

---

I do notice a couple of things: 1- The medical boards' are rather closed-minded here in the United States and parts of Europe.
2- Corporate media is bought-off by the highest bidders and advertisers, and is sometimes outright owned in such a manner that it would be counterproductive for them financially to show themselves or their shareholders in a bad light... ...Truth? They can't handle the truth!... ...I'm remembering Jack Nicholson in a movie. I don't remember the name of the movie. But it had to do with the mistreatment and/or murder of a lower ranking military personnel.

In the US I believe the medical board here is undoubtedly manipulated (infiltrated, and/or intimidated, and/or threatened and/or, etc.) in major ways and is more likely to actually be part of and at least, probably in concert and most definitely if (the medical board; is) not either one of those things, it is most certainly bought-off, so to speak, by the large pharmaceutical companies ET all, and when that doesn't work or isn't going fast enough for their liking; somebody somewhere gets pressured by a government official or 2 whom in effect end up coercing the Doctors.
I do not disagree with the statement; “The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law"... ...(etc).

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

...Wakefield seems very confident the professional ‘which haunt’ against him is going to backfire in a very big way. He says the independent research done outside of his work confirms what he has been saying all along and the ‘claim’ his finding “can’t be replicated” WILL BE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD. Also, the ’12 children experimented on’ accusation is also going to blow up in the faces of the establishment that COOKED THAT ‘CLAIM’ UP as well.

---

Because of how the system works; that will probably take years if not decades to prove one way or the other.
Either way, most we as laypersons (I am speaking for myself here, I am not so sure about everybody else here) can do is express our (laypersons) anecdotal and sometimes somewhat biased towards one side or the other; opinions'.

At best like you just did; we can make predictions (odds, anecdotal, and/or opinion based), some of our predictions will and some will not end-up becoming reality in the future.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

His book "Callous Disregard: Autism and Vaccines: The Truth Behind a Tragedy" should be read as well to get the other side of Dr. Wakefield's story before condemning the man.

---

There may be a misunderstanding here.
I am not condemning the man at all, although it may appear that way considering my previous post on this thread.
I had just posted an article that was directly related to this thread title that came out the day I posted it and it was more on-topic than the essence of the post I was replying to; In regards to OrchardDweller’s post which was directed at Braggi; which in part stated: “You owe the people here at Wacco an apology. You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.”

This debate regarding autism having a direct link to vaccines will obviously go on for quite a while or at least the continuation of comparative arguments, assessments etc. regarding the brain and the conditions in the bowel having some sort of a link to the situation that one of the links you supplied that had in it the document form (.pdf) on a web page where it went to regarding Andrew Wakefield's interview titled: “A Special Interview with Dr. Andrew Wakefield By Dr. Mercola” (https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Ex...wWakefield.pdf) is quite informative , even to a layperson.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

...What this all means is the very establishment that set out to hang Dr. Wakefield has been essentially lying to the public at the expense of Dr. Wakefield AND all those affected by vaccine damage. That’s a ‘revelation’ that really wouldn’t surprise too many people in this day and age.

---

I basically do agree with the gist of that statement.
The only prediction (based on the obvious; ...odds) I am going to make at this point in time is that this debate will continue.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:

...In the US I believe the medical board here is undoubtedly manipulated... it is most certainly bought-off, so to speak, by the large pharmaceutical companies...

---

here's commentary from the JREF site, similarly skeptical about the "medical board"'s motivations - but drawing an entirely different conclusion:

Quote:

---

Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the author of the paper in the Lancet medical journal which started the brouhaha, had his medical license revoked in May of 2010 when it became clear that he had misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all of the dozen patients whose cases formed the basis of the study. Five of them had already shown developmental problems before they received the vaccine, and three of them never had autism at all. This was a purposeful fraud, and we now know – thanks to the new BMJ report that looked into it – that Wakefield received more than £435,000 pounds (US$675,000) paid to him by a UK law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers. This was a serious conflict of interest that Wakefield failed to disclose in his article. And, obviously, the intent of that law firm must now be brought up for examination, as well. The damage to public health systems around the world, happily fueled by biased media reporting and ineffectual response from government agencies, researchers, and journals, panicked many parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children being inoculated against measles, mumps and rubella.
In the USA, the MMR [measles, mumps, rubella] combination vaccine was introduced in 1971, and immediately proved highly effective. Then the fraudulent Lancet “research” paper was published in 1998, and subsequently in 2008 the US Center for Disease Control reported more cases of measles than in any other year since 1997. More than 90 percent of those who were found to be infected had not been vaccinated, or their vaccination status was unknown. Since the MMR is such a dependable medication, that status was very probably, “unvaccinated.” This was a direct result of Wakefield's paper.

The medical profession itself was also slow to react; taking a respected MD to task for possible fraud, is not easily done in the academic world. And as the BMJ reported:
…perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it.
Wakefield has been unable to reproduce his results, as have other independent researchers who tried. The Lancet dragged its feet, too; they only officially -- and reluctantly -- withdrew the Wakefield paper last February.

---

So I guess that you didn't listen to Dr. Wakefield's account and decided that James Randi, a stage magician, who has been known to twist things, https://www.mind-energy.net/archives...challenge.html make claims, and not follow up, to be the telling the truth. I wonder who funds his organization. Perhaps a magician is better at trickery than a Doctor? Go figure:hmmm:

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

here's commentary from the JREF site, similarly skeptical about the "medical board"'s motivations - but drawing an entirely different conclusion:
[/FONT]

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

So I guess that you didn't listen to Dr. Wakefield's account and decided that James Randi, a stage magician, who has been known to twist things, https://www.mind-energy.net/archives...challenge.html make claims, and not follow up, to be the telling the truth. I wonder who funds his organization. Perhaps a magician is better at trickery than a Doctor? Go figure:hmmm:

---

Note that I'm not appealing to authority - there's no "Randi says..." in my excerpt. There's not much in the way of subjective editorialization in it. The last paragraph makes a claim, though:

Quote:

---

The medical profession itself was also slow to react; taking a respected MD to task for possible fraud, is not easily done in the academic world

---

but it's pretty much like observing that a bear's catholic... er, the pope, I mean. Has anyone ever suggested that the medical establishment does any effective self-policing at all??

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

https://www.mind-energy.net

---

by the way, MindEnergy.net as a refutation? really?? they seem kinda sketchy. They seem pretty soft & fuzzy, at least to a casual eye; pretty much a site for the believers. If they're trying to offer rebuttals or challenge critics, they'd be better served to reach a bit farther afield for experts. Most of the skeptics' sites do a bit better job - though they too get a lot of hobbyist-grade writing and analysis as well.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

... Has anyone ever suggested that the medical establishment does any effective self-policing at all??

---

Perhaps it does a lot more than you realize. There are boards in every state for every specialty. Look up their lists of discipline actions sometime. They should be searchable on the web. And yes, most of the time "peer-review" actually does something. When a quack article slips through, like one by Deepak Chopra did a few years ago, it's a huge scandal and requires months of rebuttal and argument and sometimes years before the article is retracted.

-Jeff

The really sad part about this story is that there is a connection between environmentally-induced autism (as opposed to the inborn variety, which remains rare) and vaccines, although it may not be the vaccines themselves that is to blame. The culprit is the mercury-based preservative (thimerosal) and some other factors such as administering them when the child is sick, which sends the immune system into a tizzy.

In his excellent book Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma and Allergies, Dr. Kenneth Bock has a discussion of his observations from his practice dealing with the "4-As" as well as recommendations for vaccinating wisely.

Anyone who is interested in these issues should read this book!

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:
...

---