Apple Blossom School now will be Wine Grape School ??!!!??!!

[mamaj]

I feel outraged that our county would allow this vineyard to go in and destroy this beautiful apple orchard. The winery people will lie,lie,lie to all of us to get what they want. All they really see is $$$ in their pockets. If this county allows this to continue in favor of the winery owners, they are proving how stupid and ignorant they are.
We the people who really care about our children and their children and the enviroment MUST take a stand! We can't be dis respected and abused of our rights to protect our families and the enviroment they live ,and learn in! This apple orchard is organic now and should be protected and allowed to grow with the right people to manage it-haven't you heard of organic apple juice ?

i think hobbs is using this vineyard to rebuild his local reputation. probably not a premeditated strategy, just inspired by the moment. will he keep his promises for an "organic" apple orchard next to apple blossom with trees trained like grape vines? is his vine culture less toxic than conventional orchards and more conventional vineyards? i think he will pay more attention to his promises to adjoining schools than his troublesome neighbor and original benefactor at the home vineyard. is the ag commission sensitive to the reputation of hobbs? will wine grapes continue to dominate sonoma county agriculture for many more years?

how big would it be if paul hobbs, the international winemaker consultant famous for single vineyard vino, goes organic? or better yet biodynamic? does paul hobbs care about the future his children and their children will live in? how about all the other children?

[jbox]

I feel outraged that our county would allow this vineyard to go in and destroy this beautiful apple orchard. The winery people will lie,lie,lie to all of us to get what they want. All they really see is $$$ in their pockets. If this county allows this to continue in favor of the winery owners, they are proving how stupid and ignorant they are.
We the people who really care about our children and their children and the enviroment MUST take a stand! We can't be dis respected and abused of our rights to protect our families and the enviroment they live ,and learn in! This apple orchard is organic now and should be protected and allowed to grow with the right people to manage it-haven't you heard of organic apple juice ?

So, I take it you favor the government being able to tell private property owners what specifically they must do with their land. Even though this is already happening with zoning and land use policy to a certain degree, you want to take it a step further and remove any decision making away from the individual in favor of Big Brother. REALLY? Long live Ceaucescu, Stalin, Mao, and Kim Jong Il. I really feel outraged at your attitude.

[Peace Voyager]

What might happen if every willing citizen in the county agreed to plant a tree or trees as an act of protest to vineyard development?

This is a great idea to counter the land rape across the globe; but we need more than protest to counter the unbalanced land and water uses the west county is experiencing. Too bad most of our local, state and federal reps, along with the Press Democrat are in the back pocket of the wine grape and casino businesses.

A very vocal and widespread boycott of the brands on the zeros list will have impacts; a recall of those in the pockets of these zeros will make all of them think twice before getting drunk on the wine grape lobby's tab.

Call on the DA to review what happened in the 3 Hobbs cases. The Environmental Crimes unit was made to ignore Hobbs' crimes and just go after the folks paid to do the work.

DA's can be recalled and disbarred.

Let's review a few other threads and consider what Jill Ravitch is doing, or not doing to serve the best interest of our county:

04-01-2013 Houston Herczog, my beloved son--WE NEED HELP

04-24-2013 Wacco Heroes and Zeros

08-30-2012 Unbelievable rampant family court corruption

06-13-2012 Colleen's Blog

07-29-2011 Very serious local issues in our news
__

There are many more but I'll end with this one. If Jill Ravitch had pressed charges when she had the chance against Charlotte's father, John Charles Molinari, for raping me; and an honest, thorough investigation had been conducted regarding this, as well as his involvement in prostitution, production of teen pornography, and unsecured possession of drugs, (some of these were found in her body) he would be in jail and Charlotte would be alive.

No matter if it is rape of the land, or rape of a mother; we are all at risk from the failure of the judicial system to honestly and honorably do its job.

04-21-2012 Re: Charlotte
My daughter's death was 100% preventable.

Please see the public comments I made to the Santa Rosa City Council on 4/3; just after the presentation for item 6.1 PROCLAMATION -- SEXUAL ASSAULT AWARENESS MONTH. This was 11 days before she went missing. Marsha Vas DuPre was the only one who bothered to do anything; and it was not enough.

I had been asking the Santa Rosa City Council and Police Chief for 3 years to help - they did not take action against the person who raped me, my child's father; nor did they take me seriously when I said she was at risk, the first hour they notified me she was missing. The criminal responsible for my rape, and Charlotte's disappearance is still being protected by the City of Santa Rosa, and their police; as well as the DA's office.

Justice will not prevail, unless the public demands it. In the meantime; there is a known rapist in Sonoma County who walks free.

Charlotte has paid for these crimes with her life. What will you do to change it? Please help me get Charlotte's Law passed; so more rapists get convicted - the first time they assault someone.

:waccosun: In honor of Charlotte; please don't stand silent. Help me fix this broken system.

Thank you,

Colleen Fernald

[Peace Voyager]

Sad that you think the value of land would fall because of a mandate for going organic in sensitive places. Don't the majority of us find organic certification an added value, not less? Does it really matter if foreign or corporate investors find organic ag land less valuable?


That's a good idea. I've been thinking that a new agriculture buffer overlay zone would be helpful that would be applied to all parcels that are currently zoned for agriculture that adjoin non-agriculture uses that places additional restrictions on their farming practices, including perhaps requiring it to be certified organic.

Of course the owners of the land would scream bloody murder, and they would have a point. It's quite possible that the value of their land would fall, and they would be constrained on how they could manage their land. Perhaps they could be compensated in some fashion, as above. Just a thought...:waccosun:

[Shepherd]

At a meeting yesterday of the Watertrough Childrens Alliance of a dozen people, one of the mothers volunteered to put up a website against the vineyard conversion.The link follows. Photos of the mothers are being taken today at the apple orchard and will be sent to Wacco and elsewhere. Articles are scheduled to appear this Thursday in the Bohemian and in Sonoma West. Please send letters to their editors in response.

Shepherd

https://watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com/

[Peace Voyager]

Paul Hobbs received a judgement for $360,000 against John Jenkel. The story states that was twice the amount he was suing for. How much could it cost to take down 6 Douglas Firs, presumably not $160,000? Even with legal fees factored, 160K seems insane not to mention 360K. I can't help but think that what Paul Hobbs did was premeditated and borders on elder abuse. I enjoy a glass of wine with my dinner on occasion but this kind of thing has begun to turn me off to drinking it.

You are quite right; this is only one of several things the County and court have done which would fall under elder abuse. The minute I pointed this out to Shirley Zane at a BOS meeting; she turned on me.

Someone said she's had a "Bosco Lobotomy" referring to Doug Bosco's influence, one of at least 2 new Press Democrat owners who promote industries which compromise our quality of life here. Besides supporting the over-planting of wine grapes; they represent PG& E and Station Casinos. If one had the resources to dig deeper, we'd probably find links to the fluoride industry as well; just notice how the only details relating to the risks comes from letters to the Ed, not the reporters, or "repeaters" as they are called by the well informed.

[Peace Voyager]

i think hobbs is using this vineyard to rebuild his local reputation. probably not a premeditated strategy, just inspired by the moment. will he keep his promises for an "organic" apple orchard next to apple blossom with trees trained like grape vines? is his vine culture less toxic than conventional orchards and more conventional vineyards? i think he will pay more attention to his promises to adjoining schools than his troublesome neighbor and original benefactor at the home vineyard. is the ag commission sensitive to the reputation of hobbs? will wine grapes continue to dominate sonoma county agriculture for many more years?

how big would it be if paul hobbs, the international winemaker consultant famous for single vineyard vino, goes organic? or better yet biodynamic? does paul hobbs care about the future his children and their children will live in? how about all the other children?

I don't think Paul Hobbs has children; and he doesn't have to use this new vineyard to rebuild his reputation, the Press Democrat is doing that for him rather well.


Meet Paul Hobbs 2.0 (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20130327/LIFESTYLE/303271003/0/search)

A winemaker of uncommon renown, who has made wines from Napa and Sonoma under his own name since 1991, Paul Hobbs isn't the likeliest of producers to have launched a brand geared to a younger generation. Published March 27, 2013 https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20130327/LIFESTYLE/303271003/0/search

Do a search for him on their site and you get 101related story links.

Plus, it does not matter if you "like" me, or John Jenkel; neither of us deserves the crimes and misconduct perpetrated by, or ignored by the authorities.

This has been going on for a long time, there is so much to it it makes your head spin; but that does not mean these things should remain unresolved. The unholy marriage this county has to wine grapes has many, many consequences, not one of you will escape these impacts, no matter what your age, race or income is.

[Peace Voyager]

Re-posting this list for 2 reasons. A) so it is very clear I am not anti-wine grape; just very concerned about the imbalances and bad practices by some in the industry; and those charged with its oversight. B) to help inform your choices in support of better personal health & safer environments where grapes are grown.

Please let us know if you know of a brand which meets these standards but is not listed here.

The easiest ways we can improve the standards of any industry is move your money and share your reasons far and wide.

#1 Be a patron of businesses which demonstrate respect for our social and environmental values

#2 Spread the word on which ones do, and do not

#3 Inform the stores and restaurants that you will move your business away from them if they continue to carry the brands such as Paul Hobbs, who are known to violate these standards.

#4 As for media outlets which promote businesses that continue to violate these social and environmental standards, let their advertisers know you will discontinue your business with them if they continue to advertise with those promoting unsatisfactory businesses. (In otherwords, don't feed the beast that's feeding other beasts.)

#5 Vet your candidates well; don't fall for false promises, or slick campaigns. Organize to recall those who clearly fall short of protecting our best interest.

(I warned you long ago about Efren Carrillo. The bad practices he has gotten away with here, will be multiplied now that he was given reigns of the regional water agency association, and he's headed up the ladder for election in a State Senate or Assembly seat.)

It's important to also let the bad apples know what it takes to get our business back and cease our vocal dissatisfaction.

For me, with regard to Paul Hobbs, he would have to begin by withdrawing his permit to grow wine grapes next to any schools; be 100% certified organic or bio dynamic & dry farmed; admit fault and return 100% of John Jenkel's land back to him.

Possible, though not likely to happen, unless there is enough similar pressure on a large scale, or the authorities grow their conscience and take appropriate action.

Your power is: your vote, your financial support of conscientious businesses, spreading the word on which businesses do, and don't measure up; uniting in large numbers to protect our common causes.


:waccosun:

With enough time and dedication,

the bad apples will shrivel up;

the good ones will thrive, as will we!

:gravapple:



Support California Organic and Bio Dynamic Wines
see list attached
​Hope you all will print it, or save this list on your mobile devices, for use when shopping and dinning.

[Barry]

I've been thinking that a new agriculture buffer overlay zone would be helpful that would be applied to all parcels that are currently zoned for agriculture that adjoin non-agriculture uses that places additional restrictions on their farming practices, including perhaps requiring it to be certified organic.

Of course the owners of the land would scream bloody murder, and they would have a point. It's quite possible that the value of their land would fall, and they would be constrained on how they could manage their land. Perhaps they could be compensated in some fashion, as above. Just a thought...:waccosun:


Sad that you think the value of land would fall because of a mandate for going organic in sensitive places. Don't the majority of us find organic certification an added value, not less? Does it really matter if foreign or corporate investors find organic ag land less valuable?

I'm sorry that makes you sad, Colleen, but that's my sense of the market realities.
I still think this is a very good idea :idea: and is a graceful way to both slow down the conversion of farm land to vineyards and making sure that an increasing percentage of new vineyards are organic.

Regarding the value, that's simple economics. If a farmer has an apple orchard with an adjoining a non agricultural use, they could no longer sell it to someone who wants to grow grapes conventionally. There would only be subset of interested purchasers who would be interested in growing organically. The lower competition would drive the price down. Sorry to say, but the intrinsic value of organic land vs conventional land doesn't come into play.

Of course, I'd like see the organic restriction put on all conversions, but limiting it to adjoining non-agricultural use would be a good start and more politically viable. I'd add adjoining organic agricultural land to that restriction as well.

This issue shines a spotlight on the Sonoma County Grading, Drainage, & Vineyard & Orchard Site Development Ordinance (https://www.sonoma-county.org/agcomm/vesco.htm), also known as VESCO (https://www.sonoma-county.org/agcomm/vesco.htm). People who are concerned with vineyard conversions, monoculture, water table, erosion and such should focus their attention on getting the ordinance updated to require more environmentally sensitive agricultural practices. :waccosun:

[rossmen]

i'm pretty sure he has two children. and i think the modifications to vineyard management offered to the schools are afterthoughts, not part of the original planning. hobbs and crew appear to be scrambling again in damage control mode, like at pocket canyon and vine hill, different than the calculated dismembering experienced by jenkel.


I don't think Paul Hobbs has children;

[Peace Voyager]

This list is 2 years old and will be updated in the near future. Your suggestions will be reviewed by the person who created the list to see if it meets the needed requirements. Your enthusiasm and patronage of brands which meet these standards could motivate the whole industry to improve, if their bottom line and reputation are impacted by not measuring up to both the social and environmental standards we hold dear.

:waccosun:Thanks!



Support California Organic and Bio Dynamic Wines
see list attached
​Hope you all will print it, or save this list on your mobile devices, for use when shopping and dinning.

[MandT]

So, the notorious Paul Hobbs Inc. is at it again. The arrogance and greed of this company has no bounds. It wasn't enough that a short time past he virtually stole million dollar acreage from an addled neighbor through a trumped up shyster lawsuit that paid only a few dollars an acre for the confiscated land. Those County officials that Hobbs can't 'influence' he simply ignores and continues the rampage of viticulture terra forming that has destroyed acres of Redwoods and old Oaks. The safety of neighbors, schools, communities and the integrity of the land mean nothing to this family. Money is all. Methyl Bromide anybody?

[Peace Voyager]

This list is 2 years old and will be updated in the near future. Your suggestions will be reviewed by the person who created the list to see if it meets the needed requirements. Your enthusiasm and patronage of brands which meet these standards could motivate the whole industry to improve, if their bottom line and reputation are impacted by not measuring up to both the social and environmental standards we hold dear.

:waccosun:Thanks!

For folks having a hard time finding the list; go to the 05-07-2013 posting to this thread (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?97567-Apple-Blossom-School-now-will-be-Wine-Grape-School-!!!-!!&p=166004#post166004).

[mamaj]

I am now also very concerned about another ranch property located on Bodega Hwy. As you drive down the mountain grade towards Freestone ,on the right hand side is a ranch property which was a cattle ranch . The home has been newly remodeled and sits by the road,it is empty now. Where are the owners ? Every time I drive by I see different people(men) standing around looking at the property ,or driving their trucks on it I do not recognize as the owners. I pray this is NOT going to be another winery. Freestone was once such a peaceful beautiful community. :waccosun:

[MamaBird]

If you would like to stay informed and help us to gather as much info and resources as possible to fight this conversion and to set up new guidelines for chemicals in a school zone, please "like" us on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/WatertroughChildrensAlliance

I would ask that all postings on there be relevant to our cause and for the betterment of our children.

Thank you- Amber


I feel outraged that our county would allow this vineyard to go in and destroy this beautiful apple orchard. The winery people will lie,lie,lie to all of us to get what they want. All they really see is $$$ in their pockets. If this county allows this to continue in favor of the winery owners, they are proving how stupid and ignorant they are.
We the people who really care about our children and their children and the enviroment MUST take a stand! We can't be dis respected and abused of our rights to protect our families and the enviroment they live ,and learn in! This apple orchard is organic now and should be protected and allowed to grow with the right people to manage it-haven't you heard of organic apple juice ?

[mamaj]

I hope people are not losing interest in this situation, we urgently need to keep moving foreward in stopping Hobbs or any other vineyard vulture from taking this beautiful orchard over for their greedy, harmful business adventures. Where are the previous owners of this property? Does Hobbs apply for legal permits to demolish the buildings there? Did he recieve any permit to put a vineyard in? According to Effren Carrillos' office maybe not. If the permit dept. allowed any permits for Paul Hobbs to put in a vineyard next to the schools, then they need to quit being stuck on stupid and do their home work . It's like giving a dangerous criminal a gun,are they also giving him the ammo?

I have contacted Manzano organic apple products, they are doing some research into this now as well. This orchard at 622 Water Trough rd., Sebastopol might be one of the orchards where they recieve apples from. They do not want to have it turned into a grape vineyard either, they want to continue keeping this apple orchard alive.

If Hobbs had any type of heart and soul, as well as brains between his ears which do not listen any longer, he would negotiate a reasonable sale /release of this property into the hands of people who really care about it. To Paul Hobbs; do something right for a change and let this orchard go to the Manzano organic apple producers, or people who will keep this orchard alive as organic apples. If you were never concerned about your reputation before, you should be now.

[MamaBird]

We are certainly not losing interest. We have started an alliance called Watertrough Children's Alliance. we have been continuing to meet with the Ag Commissioner, meet with our School board, circulating our petition and working out how to best stop this from happening. We are EXTREMELY motivated to keep our children safe.

If you are interested in supporting us, please "like" us on facebook www.facebook.com/watertroughchildrensalliance or visit our website for updates www.watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com

It would do us a great service if you could begin writing these passionate pleas to the press democrat, or any of our other local publications. [email protected]

Thank you for your support.


I hope people are not losing interest in this situation, we urgently need to keep moving foreward in stopping Hobbs or any other vineyard vulture from taking this beautiful orchard over for their greedy, harmful business adventures. Where are the previous owners of this property? Does Hobbs apply for legal permits to demolish the buildings there? Did he recieve any permit to put a vineyard in? According to Effren Carrillos' office maybe not. If the permit dept. allowed any permits for Paul Hobbs to put in a vineyard next to the schools, then they need to quit being stuck on stupid and do their home work . It's like giving a dangerous criminal a gun,are they also giving him the ammo?

I have contacted Manzano organic apple products, they are doing some research into this now as well. This orchard at 622 Water Trough rd., Sebastopol might be one of the orchards where they recieve apples from. They do not want to have it turned into a grape vineyard either, they want to continue keeping this apple orchard alive.

If Hobbs had any type of heart and soul, as well as brains between his ears which do not listen any longer, he would negotiate a reasonable sale /release of this property into the hands of people who really care about it. To Paul Hobbs; do something right for a change and let this orchard go to the Manzano organic apple producers, or people who will keep this orchard alive as organic apples. If you were never concerned about your reputation before, you should be now.

[Peace Voyager]

Very sorry to report I found Paul Hobbs' wine on the shelf of Pacific Market in Sebastopol.

This suprised me, because of my conversation with someone who I thought was a vendor there about how pleased I was to see they were not stocking his brands that day, and how much many of us disdain the practices of that brand, and do not wish to do business with those who choose to carry and profit from it.

Not sure if I missed it before, or if they started carrying it again to protest our protest.

I hope you will let the new owner know how you feel about this.

[rossmen]

my advice is to say to the ag commissioner, "we want to talk directly to paul hobbs". make no mistake, hobbs is happy to let his cronies and lawyers run you in circles till he gets his way. his promo flunky mrs sharp, is expert at spinning the truth and shutting down dialog. i'm pretty sure she got me banned from yelp for writing the truth about hobbs and how he takes advantage of gullible neighbors. if and when you get paul, and i'm sure it will take awhile, ask him where his kids go to school. probably sonoma academy, the most exclusive private school in sonoma county. then you have him, public schools are way more important than schools for rich kids. you are in a powerful position to make change in our society : )


We are certainly not losing interest. We have started an alliance called Watertrough Children's Alliance. we have been continuing to meet with the Ag Commissioner, meet with our School board, circulating our petition and working out how to best stop this from happening. We are EXTREMELY motivated to keep our children safe.

If you are interested in supporting us, please "like" us on facebook www.facebook.com/watertroughchildrensalliance (https://www.facebook.com/watertroughchildrensalliance) or visit our website for updates www.watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com (https://www.watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com)

It would do us a great service if you could begin writing these passionate pleas to the press democrat, or any of our other local publications. [email protected]

Thank you for your support.

[estrella3210]

21896Please come to a "Town Hall" meeting at the Sebastopol Grange on Wednesday the 29th of May at 7pm, to participate in a public forum about the apple orchard to vineyard conversion that is happening next to Apple Blossom Elementary, Orchard View Charter, Sunridge Charter and Tree House Hollow Preschool.

The grange is located at 6000 Sebastopol Ave (also known as HIGHWAY 12), Sebastopol, CA 95472, between Chevron gas station and the Strawberry farm stand.

This meeting will include lots of information about the short and long terms goals Watertrough Children's Alliance has for keeping ALL our children safe from pesticides. We have even invited Paul Hobbs to speak. There will be other interested parties speaking too.

Hope to see you there.

Look for us at Sebastopol Farmer's Market, we are tabling for signatures on our petition, or you can just come talk with us. :)

Thanks for your support everyone.

https://watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com/index.html

[mamaj]

REALLY?? You do not seem to get it..........


So, I take it you favor the government being able to tell private property owners what specifically they must do with their land. Even though this is already happening with zoning and land use policy to a certain degree, you want to take it a step further and remove any decision making away from the individual in favor of Big Brother. REALLY? Long live Ceaucescu, Stalin, Mao, and Kim Jong Il. I really feel outraged at your attitude.

[mamaj]

I had spoken with the permit dept. yesterday,concerning how liberal they are at giving permits to vineyard vultures like Hobbs, but if a homeowner wants to add a room onto their home etc. ,they are all over with their inspections. Did they think about inspecting or investigating what Paul Hobbs was planning,or where? They have given him permits, at least some of them to put his vineyard in next to the school! In that case, they are also responsible for his actions for allowing him to do this.

I believe Apple Blossom/Twin Hills school district should file a lawsuit, possibly class action to protect their school from being endangered and closing down. Many parents will be removing their students and transferring them to a healthier enviroment. My daughter attends Orchard View, this school program has been a wonderful positive experience for her and our family. I'm sure alot of parents feel the same way. We would really hate to pull our kids out of this school, but the school needs to take more action towards protecting it, making their school a safe, healthy enviroment for everyone involved with it.

This is a very stressful situation Paul Hobbs has put upon everyone and he needs to be stopped immediatly. Manzana organic apple products in Sebastopol told me they thought this orchard might be one of their clients and they would also investigate what was happening. They recently had another company merge with their company, sharing the same organic policies. It would be a win win situation if Paul Hobbs would negotiate with their company and offer them a fair price for this orchard. This is the humane thing to do.:thumbsup::heart:


So, I take it you favor the government being able to tell private property owners what specifically they must do with their land. Even though this is already happening with zoning and land use policy to a certain degree, you want to take it a step further and remove any decision making away from the individual in favor of Big Brother. REALLY? Long live Ceaucescu, Stalin, Mao, and Kim Jong Il. I really feel outraged at your attitude.

[Barry]

https://i.imgur.com/yv1Iu.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)
Twin Hills parents not done fighting conversion
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/news/twin-hills-parents-not-done-fighting-conversion/article_d1f102ca-c32c-11e2-b536-001a4bcf887a.html

Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:13 pm
by David Abbott Sonoma West Editor [email protected]
([email protected])

Public forum scheduled for May 29

https://watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com/uploads/2/0/0/5/20054129/81196_orig.jpgParents from the Twin Hills Union School District have mobilized in an attempt to halt a proposed vineyard conversion in order to have more tests done on the soil and to get increased mitigation efforts in the soon-to-be vineyard surrounding the school district.

“We’re hopeful,” Joy Hamel, of the Watertrough Children’s Alliance (WCA), said. “Last week, we had an initial meeting with (Paul) Hobbs’ PR folks to get the conversation moving.”

The WCA is “a group of parents, children, educators and community members” associated with five area schools, including SunRidge, Apple Blossom, Orchard View, Nonesuch, and Tree House Hollow Preschool.

On May 29, there will be a public forum to discuss what is happening on the property and what can be done to decrease the amount of spraying likely to take place near the schools.

Opposition to the proposed conversion has been brewing since late last month when the abandoned buildings on the property, purchased by Paul Hobbs Winery in late 2012, were demolished.

Hobbs plans to convert 30 acres of the 40-acre parcel to winegrapes, leaving 10 acres as they are.

News of the conversion prompted an online petition to try to stop the project and the creation of the WCA. The petition reportedly had more than 700 signatures as of Tuesday.

According to a press release from the WCA, the group is committed to “organizing to engage the current policies and standard practices that need changing,” although they are fully aware that the conversion will in all likelihood take place.

“We want to work on engaging in a conversation about current practices and keeping spraying to a minimum,” Hamel said. “First, we want to put a halt to the conversion to do further soil testing. Then, we want (Hobbs) to move forward with practices that are good for people and good for the community.”

But in order to do that, the group will have to depend on the participation of Hobbs, as the Sonoma County Agricultural Commission has basically green-lighted the project.

“We’ve had discussions with the WCA to provide them with information and explain the process,” Ag Commissioner Tony Linegar said. “There’s not a lot they can do. (The conversion) fits in the ministerial standard. Our job is to decide if it fits in the criteria.”

Linegar expects the permit to be issued within the next two weeks.

The WCA had an independent test done on soil samples from the site that found traces of DDT, which has increased concern over apple tree removal that is expected to raise a lot of dust in the immediate area.

But the Ag Commissioner believes the conversion will reduce exposure for students at the schools, as conventional apple orchards use more chemicals that are sprayed higher in the air than vineyards. He added it is likely any orchard that has been around since the 1940s or ’50s will have traces of DDT, as the powerful pesticide was used until it was banned in 1972.

“We don’t want an abandoned orchard. They become breeding grounds for pests and disease. It’s the last thing you want,” Linegar said. “I’d rather see it ripped out. … I’m glad it is staying agricultural land and not turning into a subdivision.”

It is not clear whether Hobbs will attend the public forum or not.

“We invited them to the forum and we’re hopeful they’ll come. We hope to have a peaceful and harmonious communication, however it is a public forum,” Hamel said. “We’re hoping to find a way to move forward in a healthy way. ... We’re under no illusions. He’s a wine guy and we do live in an agricultural community.”

Hobbs has already offered to work with the school district to create “educational opportunities” and to move some of the apple trees to the campus, as well as creating a buffer zone between the school and the vineyard.

Additionally, he is proposing more than $100,000 in expenditures to rehabilitate the soil in preparation for growing high-end grapes.

“Paul Hobbs Winery is continuing to work with neighboring schools and the newly formed Watertrough Children’s Alliance.” Hobbs’ Marketing and Public Relations Manager Tara Sharp said. “The conversations have been constructive and useful for both sides to understand our respective perspectives and goals. We are completely aligned with regard to keeping our children safe and healthy.”

But parents are skeptical of Hobbs’ intentions, as the local vintner has had some high-profile dustups over vineyard conversions in other parts of the West County.

His issues with former neighbor John Jenkel led to the conversion of Jenkel’s Graton property into vineyards and in October 2011, Hobbs cleared Davis Christmas Tree Farm in Graton.

But apple orchards have caused their share of problems as well.

In May 1998, an apple orchard in the area was fined for the “drift” of pesticides that found their way to Apple Blossom School after officials found diazinon residue on the outside of the building.

The public forum on the “health risks of toxic chemical farming” will take place on Wednesday, May 29, from 7 to 9:30 p.m. at the Sebastopol Grange, 6000 Sebastopol Ave., Sebastopol.

According to a press release for the event, speakers “will address concerns and issues related to health risks of toxic chemical farming and the progress of the WCA’s mission.”

For information on the WCA, go to watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com (https://watertroughchildrensalliance.weebly.com/) or [email protected].

[mamaj]

Having already experienced for many years how vineyard owners work their vineyard productions in Freestone and other areas, I do not believe Paul Hobbs is honestly now, or any time, going to work with our communities. He is already getting people to eat out of his dirty hands. I believe the best alternative is to have Manzano organic apple products from Sebastopol save this orchard and negotiate with Paul Hobbs on a fair market price . They are interested ,and another organic producing company recently merged with them ,possibly able to invest in this orchard and continue caring for the orchard, cleaning it up in a more organic manner.

I remember when Phelps winery began their vineyards in Freestone,nothing but promises which turned into lies once some people believed him, and the county agriculture and permit departments turned their backs on the local residents of Freestone. Phelps used HUGE bull dozers which worked up to about 11:00 p.m. for several days before the dead line went through, keeping them from removing top soil and putting their grapes on the hill sides. They pushed ALL this valuble soil into Salmon Creek. The creek being only 3-5 ft. wide and only1ft-3ft .deep in that area suffers forever now. This creek is supposed to be protected, people do not see this area of it, now it is on Phelps vineyard property and is private property. They have the right to arrest anyone who goes there. And yes, several local residents not only filmed their actions but also complained to the county agencies and dept.of fish and game, which never did anything to the winery owner or help save this creek.

Now there is Hobbs , a vineyard vulture who has all the control and power to do what he wants. And he will get away with doing what he wants ,regardless of what county or state officials say or do. People who are working with this issue seem to be backing down and think Hobbs will"work" with them,forget it ,he is not a honest business person and has already proven it. He really does not care about the schools, and the community other than selling his wine to them.He needs to stop ALL his so-called business plans for this orchard and allow a organic apple producing company like Manzano take it over. He can afford to let it go, we can not afford to be treated for life threatening dieseases caused by any of activities in this apple orchard. Manzano has a web site ,contact them communicate ,send information to them ,invite them to the meetings etc.,get them involved. Meanwhile, allowing Paul Hobbs to talk his talk and do his "business as usual" is absolutely WRONG!! Do not back down and allow him to put his vineyard in no matter what.

[Shepherd]

I spoke to an organic winegrape grower at the Sebastopol Farmers Market this morning. I indicated that the Watertrough Children's Alliance was open to trying to negotiate with Paul Hobbs for a win/win solution, like his going organic. He assured me that Hobbs would never do that. Given his previous record, that is probably true.
Shepherd


Having already experienced for many years how vineyard owners work their vineyard productions in Freestone and other areas, I do not believe Paul Hobbs is honestly now, or any time, going to work with our communities. He is already getting people to eat out of his dirty hands...

Now there is Hobbs , a vineyard vulture who has all the control and power to do what he wants. And he will get away with doing what he wants ,regardless of what county or state officials say or do. People who are working with this issue seem to be backing down and think Hobbs will"work" with them,forget it ,he is not a honest business person and has already proven it. He really does not care about the schools, and the community other than selling his wine to them... Meanwhile, allowing Paul Hobbs to talk his talk and do his "business as usual" is absolutely WRONG!! Do not back down and allow him to put his vineyard in no matter what.

[Bird Watcher]

Just for the efficacy of people finding the website, the name of the company is "Manzana Products." A long-standing West County family apple business. :):


Manzano has a web site ,contact them communicate ,send information to them ,invite them to the meetings etc.,get them involved. Meanwhile, allowing Paul Hobbs to talk his talk and do his "business as usual" is absolutely WRONG!! Do not back down and allow him to put his vineyard in no matter what.

[Dan Craig-Morse]

Hi Shepherd,
You know I've lived on the Jenkel property for almost 20 years now and so have seen alot. Back when the adjacent property still had apple trees on it, Paul Hobbs went to great lengths to present the plan for his new vineyard as being fully organic and that he would be constructing buildings that fit in with the ecology of the land. Not only was this misinformation to help assuage any public concern for his new vineyard, which eventually included non organic practices and the building of a slick metallic high tech winery, but it was just the beginning of the now quite familiar campaign to take advantage of John Jenkel's legal entanglements to essentially swindle multiple acres from him for pennies on the thousand dollar bill.

[Oceans11]

How about converting the vineyard and old apple orchard into forests of oaks, douglas fir trees, redwood and other plants native to this area ? How about returning the land to itself ? How about returning all the creatures, animals, and spirit of life to this area ? How about humans re learning to live harmoniously and in balance with the other life forms ? Can this happen ?

[Barry]

How about converting the vineyard and old apple orchard into forests of oaks, douglas fir trees, redwood and other plants native to this area ? How about returning the land to itself ? How about returning all the creatures, animals, and spirit of life to this area ? How about humans re learning to live harmoniously and in balance with the other life forms ? Can this happen ?

If someone wants to buy it.

[Marty M]

If someone wants to buy it.


Actually this is within reason. Development rights for land can be purchased and then donated to a land trust. Usually with very attractive tax incentives for the land owner. Contact the Sonoma Land Trust for details.

Marty

[rossmen]

hobbs knows the value of expert legal representation and his promise is worthless. if the childrens alliance does choose to negotiate with this manipulative winemaker, do it with a written contract with legal review. of course hobbs only motivation to negotiate is reputation, essential for selling high end wine. and the hobbs rep is taking a big hit here, thats why the promises are flowing...


Hi Shepherd,
You know I've lived on the Jenkel property for almost 20 years now and so have seen alot. Back when the adjacent property still had apple trees on it, Paul Hobbs went to great lengths to present the plan for his new vineyard as being fully organic and that he would be constructing buildings that fit in with the ecology of the land. Not only was this misinformation to help assuage any public concern for his new vineyard, which eventually included non organic practices and the building of a slick metallic high tech winery, but it was just the beginning of the now quite familiar campaign to take advantage of John Jenkel's legal entanglements to essentially swindle multiple acres from him for pennies on the thousand dollar bill.

[dominus]

The news this morning reads of the growing link between pesticides and solvents to Parkinson's disease in a 100 studies. As a community whose rural land is being usurped by vineyard developers who are endangering our health and the health of our rural ecology, we must begin to think about organizing a consortium to address the guidelines of Vesco at the state legislature level rather than dealing with individual vineyard owners.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/05/28/More-than-100-studies-show-link-of-pesticides-and-Parkinsons/UPI-71381369718840/


(https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/05/28/More-than-100-studies-show-link-of-pesticides-and-Parkinsons/UPI-71381369718840/)

[Alexandra]

Please attend the WCA Hosted Public Meeting Wednesday night, May, 29 at 7:00 pm at the Grange in Sebastopol.

Representatives from Hobb's Winery will be in attendance as well as the Agricultural Commissioner and other officials.( Efren Carillo was invited but will not be in attendance. His assistant Susan told our group that his schedule is booked for months and he is unable to meet with us on this issue). At the meeting, there will be a short presentation that encapsulates the situation and then a Q&A/discussion forum.



hobbs knows the value of expert legal representation and his promise is worthless. if the childrens alliance does choose to negotiate with this manipulative winemaker, do it with a written contract with legal review. of course hobbs only motivation to negotiate is reputation, essential for selling high end wine. and the hobbs rep is taking a big hit here, thats why the promises are flowing...

[Peace Voyager]

hobbs knows the value of expert legal representation and his promise is worthless. if the childrens alliance does choose to negotiate with this manipulative winemaker, do it with a written contract with legal review. of course hobbs only motivation to negotiate is reputation, essential for selling high end wine. and the hobbs rep is taking a big hit here, thats why the promises are flowing...

:gravapple:

I would re-state the expert part of legal representation as; he knows the value of being an insider to the organized crime which masquerades as the Sonoma County justice & permitting system.

Hobbs, and his attorney, John Holdredge, know how to play a rigged game alright. But the performance his PR gal put on at the Watertrough schools forum tonight was amateur. I don't think she, or most folks understand how sinister that worldwide enterprise, (pretending to be a small family farm), the wine lobbyists & many county officials are.

Anyone here willing to pay to look into who his investors are with a Dun & Bradstreet report, or ??? How much can you uncover on a LLP? I have heard allegations through a neighbor's observations, that drug money laundering may have financed his winery; linked to his South American ventures perhaps.

Glad the US is finally getting a look at some of those Swiss bank accounts. Wonder how many of our headaches would be gone if all those off-shore accounts went public? Hard to follow the money when there's so many black holes. Let's encourage them to root around in the bankrolling of the land rapers here, before more Gravensteins are ripped out and our Redwood Empire's scenic beauty is just a memory; replaced by row after row of vines and drunken tourist.

Looks like Pacific Market may be pulling Hobbs brands; they, and all the other outlets still need to here from you. I don't think Paul Hobbs land buying spree and timber & orchard conversions will stop until people fully understand the consequences that come from that brand. Which the Press Democrat's Meg Melnik continues to put in its wine of the week section, as it did Wed. with CrossBarn. How ironic, since we know that Hobbs is a historic barn-killer.

Efren could not have shown his face at the forum; he would have been the biggest hypocrite in the room. Many of you still have the wool pulled over your eyes about him. Read my previous posts about he and Press Democrat owner Doug Bosco. Look at the PD story of the conversion of walnut trees to wine production facility Ledson is doing in Kenwood. It's about greed, not saving the family farm. Family farms with castles - ha! (BTW- walnuts are a good mood food; we need more, not less locally.)

Know your labels; inform your family and friends - next door and worldwide. Separating the good stewards from the fake ones in the wine world is just as important as knowing what brands put GMOs in food & beverages, which products are made in sweatshops, or if blood was spilled for your diamond; etc.

Do you want to drink a wine whose bouquet has hints of round-up, & toxic, clear-cut orchard soil residue? How about waste water wine? Do you know how many brands are resorting to that because the wine grape's overproduction here competes with the needs of the public, businesses & endangered species of fish?

Finding brands you like, because of how well the winery & grape growers treat their land and neighbors, ought be even more important than choosing it for the taste or price.

The county, and others profiting from "elementary school and/or watershed impacted wine", have no incentive to stop, and they are far from done. A west county wine grape moratorium is essential; think Carrillo will initiate that?

If we don't make a case to stop Hobbs, one of the worst actors in the field; you can say hello to tons more herbicides and pesticides, winery related traffic and road impacts, ground and surface water siphoning exported one case of wine at a time.

I'm sure the schools, moms & dads think it's smart to be "good neighbors" and negotiate. That will not protect your children. When people like Hobbs are able to get away with such serious crimes & bad practices, they are untouchable. This is a watershed moment, literally and figuratively. If you do not stand firm, in large enough numbers, the damage will intensify and spread.

I've warned you for years about Hobbs; and about the risks to my daughter. Too few listened, a precious child is dead, and many lovely wooded acres have been destroyed. Will you heed my warnings now? Isn't it worth the effort to protect what's left before it's too late.

China has its winery investment eyes set on our county; how many more do? Until the regulations are improved and upheld, and the criminals are removed from the decision making process; it's an uphill battle.

Hope enough of you have the backbone to make it through the long haul ahead. Better get the kids educated on how to make it work as well. Their generation will be required to take the reigns next, to ensure our region's natural resources are not further eroded.

Thanks to all of you who hosted & showed up at the Grange event; those who make the effort to correct bad land and water use practices, and make informed choices with each purchase.

:waccosun:Educated, united & organized - we have the power to starve the beast as we nourish our souls; and delight in the beautiful children, learning, singing, dancing & playing upon the un-polluted earth of this place we make our home.
:goorganic: :dancinggirl:

[mamaj]

This post is 100% correct,we need to keep working together to stop Hobbs in his tracks here, no nice negotiations allowing him to continue.

Do you think the wine industry is not connected to drug crimes in south America? Here is a well known fact ,and very true; many years ago Gary Heck owner and "president" of Korbel winery inherited this winery from his father Adolph.His father sued his own brother,and a very nice brother ,Paul Heck. Paul was very ill at the time ,but his own brother sued him anyway. Gary,prior to taking over the winery was a sherrif on the Russian River during the summer months. He had a beautiful wife and his children were very young when his wife and mother of his children walked into their bedroom and caught Gary having sex with his secretary.

Devastated,his wife took some anti-depressants and almost over dosed. In turn to make matters worse for his family he took both young children away from their mother and their home. Gary did not stop there he continued his flings with his women thinking he was very powerful. He began investing in Arabian horses and started his own Arabian horse ranch on Olivet rd.,Santa Rosa. To drive by it you would see his empire looking like a scene from the old "Dallas "t.v. show. News travels quickly through horse people and their business friends.

The news broke out ,and reliable news. Gary Heck was not just the owner of the Korbel winery "empire" he inherited, but also smuggling cocaine by putting it in his horses! Forcing it into them,who knows how many of them he killed only for his addictions and greed. I hope he was busted for this ,but he also is protected.Protected by our local legal system and crooked politicians. I don't blame his daughter who is now grown up,does not want to deal with him any more. The last time I heard about his son he was in a bad car accident while driving drunk,something Garys' brother Adolph jr. had a history of. Yes folks growing up in Guerneville and knowing what was happening at Korbel was like watching a daily soap opra, but for real.

:gravapple:

I would re-state the expert part of legal representation as; he knows the value of being an insider to the organized crime which masquerades as the Sonoma County justice & permitting system. ...

[sebastacat]

Colleen: Thanks for your post.

I, too, found the P.R. person sent to last night's meeting by Hobbs to be ill-equipped to deal with the plethora of hard questions and the barrage of criticism from those in attendance.

I, too, am disappointed that our fifth district supervisor did not attend the forum. The Watertrough Children's Alliance expended a great deal of time, effort and research into organizing and hosting this forum, and as our elected public official at the county level, the least he could have done was acknowledge their efforts by showing up -- if even for only a minute.

Question: I wonder if he will be attending next week's meeting in Occidental regarding making Occidental the "gateway" for the west county? We shall see.....

I truly appreciate all of the effort that the W.C.A. went to to put on this successful and well-attended forum.
However, it sounds like, since this vineyard conversion is considered a "ministerial act," it's pretty much a certainty that it's going to happen. I just hope and pray that they can enter into some sort of legally binding agreement with the Hobbs people which will protect the children, the staff and the parents not only of this generation, but of future generations as well.

It sounds like the most positive effect that this will have (if there is one to be had) is that this vineyard conversion proposal has united people more than ever before to see to it that real legislative changes are made to the current weak laws that we have on the books regarding buffer zones, not only around schools, but, hopefully, around other sensitive buildings, institutions and lands as well.

That is going to become our next daunting task.

[Dixon]

I have heard allegations through a neighbor's observations, that drug money laundering may have financed his winery...


Do you think the wine industry is not connected to drug crimes in south America?

Let's be clear on the fact that wine is a drug just as much as anything else is. In fact, alcohol is second only to nicotine in number of people killed every year, several times more than all the illegal drugs put together, and it's correlated with everything from homicide and suicide to spouse and child abuse to vehicle and industrial accidents to all kinds of crimes against people and property. So, as far as "drug money" goes, every penny spent on wine is drug money. And we live in an area proudly named after one of the most addictive, poisonous, and destructive drugs on the planet--the Wine Country, LOL! (I know this observation may seem a bit tangential. I only mention it because talking/thinking/acting as if nicotine and alcohol aren't drugs kills people and contributes to the phony, oppressive, destructive "war on drugs".)

[MamaBird]

I have thought how different the outcry would be from EVERYONE, mainly and specifically the government agencies if someone was putting in a 40 acre Medical Marijuana farm or Hemp field. And I don't know of a single story where someone over indulged on marijuana and had any of the issues that alcohol so clearly has on people. I am not pro one or the other as I feel neither should be going in next to 5 schools...but the thought HAS crossed my mind.

In the broader sense this is an issue between legal and illegal drugs as well....not apples and grapes....we already have a 'no drug zone' protection around our schools. It is really interesting that this does not apply. I know you can not own a liquor store in a certain area around schools too....but growing the grapes that makes the wine is a complete non issue!

Time to address some of these bizarre dualities.

Thank you to each and everyone of you for coming to the Grange last night. I hope that the conversation continues and the energy builds to protect our children in EVERY WAY from being exposed to toxicity...body, mind and spirit!


Let's be clear on the fact that wine is a drug just as much as anything else is.

[theindependenteye]

Colleen: Thanks for your post.

I, too, found the P.R. person sent to last night's meeting by Hobbs to be ill-equipped to deal with the plethora of hard questions and the barrage of criticism from those in attendance.

(Elizabeth here) --

This sounds awfully familiar. Remember the Smart Meter meetings with PG&E, when what they sent was a PR team, and an ill-informed one, at that? When a large number of people put passion, preparation, and purpose into an attempt to deal with an issue, and are met with -- wait for it -- a PR person, that says two things to me. One, not only are their minds made up, but they are damn sure that the governmental structure is in their favor. Not to worry. Two, they wouldn't know passion/preparation/purpose if it bit them on the butt. I have the deep suspicion that these entrenched corporate folks are essentially *lazy*. They can't be bothered to think, they know what works, and they don't have a clue that sometime, somehow, somewhere, the force opposing them is going to find a way to override their paradigm.

Can anyone with a deeper memory bank than mine, and more time to consult it, come up with any reasonably local examples of concerted and relentless community action turning the tide against the greed-heads? Sorry, the elevated corporate structures?

[applefan]

you make some good points here. Some people are waking up, but orchard conversions have been fast and furious for at least 10 years. Your local Slow Food chapter has been working to help people understand that we all need to eat and to buy local apples when they are in season, to pay MORE for them so that farmers can make a living. Many many local apple farmers love what they do and want to continue even though.the pressures on them are enormous. If they are aging and their kids don't want to be farmers, the pressures to cash out are even greater. If we VALUE them and their work, if we SuppORT them, if we BUy lots of apples, make applesauce, make pies, teach our children to WAIT for them, there might be a chance. the sad truth is that the demand for the apples that remain is huge and there are actually not enough apples to satisfy that demand.
The GRavensteins are coming in late July. Lets see what we can do as a community.



I am having a difficult time understanding why this is even an issue at all. Apples require far more chemicals than grapes. Even organic sprays drift and can cause respiratory irritation. Grapes rarely require any application of insecticides while apples regularly require fungicides and insecticides. Spraying of apples requires spray rigs that force the chemicals high into the treetops which increases the potential for drift.

If you owned the orchard would you continue to farm it even if it lost money? Sebastopol now competes with apple growers in Washington and China. It is next to impossible for an apple grower to make a living in this county.

Do you buy only apple products that are made from apples grown in Sebastopol? Have you spoken to the owner of the orchard and offered him or her money to help offset his or her mounting losses? Have you organized a community event to help subsidize the farmer who loses money every year? If you enjoy the blossoms so much, maybe you should offer to purchase the orchard and then donate it to the Sonoma County Land Trust. Just exactly what are you doing to help the apple growers? Perhaps you would prefer to see a subdivision instead of a vineyard.

Without the wine industry, Sonoma County would have been bankrupt in 2011. Thousands of people are employed by wineries and grape growers. Many children of parents that are employed in the wine industry attend Apple Blossom School.

This is an agricultural community. It is the farmer’s right to plant whatever the law allows on their land. There are no redwood trees being removed nor is there any habitat being destroyed.

Folks like you are usually long on complaints but very short on viable alternatives.

[Barry]

A second thread has been started on this topic following the public meeting on May 29th, 2013 called Watertrough Children's Alliance Vineyard Conversion meeting comments (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?98463-Watertrough-Children-s-Alliance-Vineyard-Conversion-meeting-comments&p=166916#post166916). I've recently post a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lAVAVLnvDg) of that meeting to that thread as well.

Barry