CVS/Chase development proposal [Archive] - Page 2

1104GT

10-18-2011, 09:42 PM

Here are some rough statistics from the current proposal:

80% of this site area is devoted to parking and vehicular traffic (not counting Barnes)
50% of the sidewalk and street frontage faces parking lots and the drive through (not counting Barnes).
15% of the building frontage is dedicated to actual storefronts and building entries.

These numbers are not appropriate for a "downtown" development. I urge everyone to show up tomorrow. An excerpt from my letter to the design review members is below:

"I am disappointed to see that the design of the project has not meaningfully changed since the last review. It is still essentially a suburban, auto-centric, strip type development that has been shoved up to the street. It's difficult to point to any aspect of it that relates to our downtown or stands out as pedestrian friendly. I attached a diagram of downtown that identifies areas that I feel are pedestrian friendly or not. When viewed in this context, it become apparent this development is much more like Rite Aid, Safeway and the Redwood Marketplace than it is like Main Street.

I think it is premature to discuss building architecture and materials when the site design is unacceptable, but the buildings seem to draw inspiration only from the industrial scaled buildings and nothing from the human scaled buildings downtown. I think this is a mistake when dealing with large buildings without setbacks. Without storefronts and shop windows, the proposed CVS building is too cold, hard and inhuman for this prominent location. Ads and displays in the "windows" and boulder art won't help. Chase has oddly been reduced to a rusty metal box with wood.

I travel to other communities often and know good projects happen in downtowns. We need something good to happen here."

Hope to see lots of people tomorrow.

scamperwillow

10-19-2011, 09:48 AM

If you can't make it to the meeting today, send an email to the DRB - and do it soon so they have time to read it before the meeting at 3:00. And be constructive - not attacking. Good ideas will be listened to. Whining and attacks will not.
DRB appointees:
Peter Schurch [email protected]
Zachary Douch [email protected]
Bob Beauchamp [email protected]
Lynn Deedler [email protected]
Ron Basso [email protected]
Alternate Lindsay Masset [email protected]

John Eder

10-21-2011, 03:14 PM

I have to say that I was pretty disappointed that so few people showed up at the October 19 Design Review Board meeting, where the CVS/Chase project was discussed. I realize that a 3 PM meeting is a work conflict for many people, but there were only about 4-5 people in attendance who spoke against the project, and an equal number who voiced their approval (mostly business owners). There is a perception of widespread opposition to this project, but you wouldn't know it, based on what you see and hear. As this process moves forward, and it [I]will continue progressing through to approval, most likely, you need to make your opinion known. Not an attack speech, or a "all big companies suck" dialogue, but convincing, heartfelt expressions of why this project, as currently proposed, would devastate downtown Sebastopol. It will be coming before the Design Review Board again, and, most likely, the City Council. Get informed- look at the plans, read the staff reports. Just saying, "I hate it" isn't enough. And, just as importantly, send e-mails, letters or faxes and attend the meetings- stay informed. Ignorance or apathy only hands our town to the CVS/Chase developer on a plate, kind of like being conquered while we slept.

Design Review Board Members:
Peter Schurch [email protected]
Zachary Douch [email protected]
Bob Beauchamp [email protected]
Lynn Deedler [email protected]
Ron Basso [email protected] (not participating due to financial conflict of interest)
Lindsay Massey [email protected]

City Council Members:
Mayor Guy Wilson [email protected]
Vice Mayor Michael Kyes [email protected]
Kathleen Shaffer [email protected] (the project's most ardent cheerleader)
Sarah Glade Gurney [email protected] (the lone dissenting vote on the overturn of the Planning Commission's denial)
Patrick Slayter [email protected]

It is not too soon to let all of these people know (and you should copy all of them) what you think about this project, but you will get more attention and respect if you do it in an informed, intelligent manner. Pay attention to when the meetings are scheduled- it is all listed on the City of Sebastopol website. Alternatively, call the Planning Department at (707) 823-6167 and ask to be contacted by email whenever any CVS/Chase-related meeting are going to be conducted. If a really crappy project gets built, it will be no one's fault but ours.

Shown below is a letter that I submitted to the project architect following Wednesday's Design Review Board meeting:

Sara S

10-21-2011, 03:58 PM

I tried to see your letter, but it said "deleted." Granted, I'm pretty lame on the computer, but I'd like to see it. Since I'm new to Sebastopol (after 36 years west of Cazadero) I'm at a place where these issues matter more to me than they did when I just read about them in the paper or on Wacco.

Sara Scott

John Eder

10-21-2011, 04:41 PM

Sarah-

Try again- I did delete the letter (briefly) to edit out my signature block, but then I re-posted the modified letter. It works on my computer. Perhaps we just crossed in our separate activities.

The Owl

10-21-2011, 04:53 PM

I have to say that I was pretty disappointed that so few people showed up at the October 19 Design Review Board meeting, where the CVS/Chase project was discussed. I realize that a 3 PM meeting is a work conflict for many people, but there were only about 4-5 people in attendance who spoke against the project, and an equal number who voiced their approval (mostly business owners). ...

I was wondering why they would schedule something as important as that in the middle of what is for most people, a work day? Kind of ensures a low turn out, I would think.

Peter Schurch

10-21-2011, 08:35 PM

Letter to the Editor, Sonoma West:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

CVS and the Design Review Board<o:p></o:p>

The DRB continued to hear the CVS/Chase project after nearly rejecting it at last Wednesday’s meeting. The Design Review Board had requested specific site changes in July. The Developer came back last Wednesday (10/19/11) with a nearly identical site plan and firmly stated that many changes weren’t going to happen. Apparently his clients are frustrated with the City’s demands. I hope the Sonoma West will choose to cover the next DRB meeting. It could be crucial. Several areas need to be addressed including pedestrian features of the project, traffic flow into and out of the project and the two buildings’ architectural qualities. This is a very important project situated the heart of Sebastopol’s downtown and will have a very big impact on the look and feel of the downtown as well as traffic congestion. There are very reasonable concerns. I hope that the Sonoma West will deem it newsworthy and that more people will become aware of this important upcoming meeting at the DRB. If the DRB does not approve the project, the Developer may appeal it to the City Council. What a show down that would be.<o:p></o:p>

Peter Schurch, DRB member<o:p></o:p>

Butterfly

10-21-2011, 09:40 PM

Well, I'm not too late to show up... when is the next DRB meeting? Sounds like there's room for more input on this project. I certainly agree with the general tenor of comments. I'm glad the developer is getting tired; that indicates to me they are more interested in the bottom line and not "reforming" and upgrading their development prospectus and design to fit what Sebastopol residents want. If so, good riddance. We'd rather have quality and good business prospects for that spot than, bad, slap-stick, made to fit "natural" design (reminds me of pre-fab construction criteria, with natural meaning it's got wood and windows in it), and, yes, HUGE — the traffic volume and traffic flow / parking lot design aspects are horrendous and you've got to have acrobats for architects to make it work with "drive-through" business. Better to throw out the whole thing and start over. Let's put in what we want there — bye-bye CVS Pharmacy and Chase. Stay where you are and by-the-way, do your good citizen duty and make Redwood Village Shopping Center a better place to do business and customer friendly. These days, these two corporate entities need to do good citizen duties in these "Occupy" times. Do good, like the little girl's sign says at "Occupy Santa Rosa".

Our town has tooted its clarion call for what is important to us: preserving the small town character of Sebastopol = walkability and core downtown values, as in local area business character. Chamber of Commerce could go with that. Why not. Local money, circulating locally in our economy is good business. Get with the program, Chamber of Commerce; this is what democracy looks like!

John Eder

10-21-2011, 11:16 PM

The developer is not getting tired- they are getting pissed. I hate to sound like the harbinger of doom, but is less likely that CVS/Chase will "get tired and go away" than they will ramp up the pressure and play hardball with the DRB and City Council. They have plenty of muscle and economic weight to throw around, and they are used to getting their way. Also, Sebastopol has profoundly non-existent design guidelines, which free up developers to do pretty much whatever they please, without any recourse for our town. They know this, their lawyers know this, and our City Attorney knows this. It is naive to think that, as citizens, we can wear them down to the point that they will throw in the towel and go away. I know that they have expended a significant amount of money so far, and will likely not withdraw without a considerable fight. So, please, do not delude yourself- if pushed, the City Council- the ultimate decision makers for this project- will roll over if pressured enough. I have seen this happen before in a similarly-sized town in pursuit of the almighty buck, and fearful of litigation. The developer for this project showed their hand at the DRB meeting, saying, essentially, that they were unwilling to negotiate on some aspects of this project. These aspects, ironically, were the ones that the majority of the DRB found objectionable enough to deny the project. It is our job to support and encourage the members of both the DRB and City Council to stand firm, to not cave to corporate demands and compromise our town's values and character. Yes, there is room for compromise, but at all times, our town leaders need to remain in control of the process, so that the interests and future of Sebastopol can be protected. We need to let them know, in every way possible- by email, letter, fax, phone call, personal appearance- what we think, what we want, and how it is their duty, as our elected representatives, not to sell us out. The effort of each person is crucial at this point- everyone of you matter, and it is important that you stand up and do what is required of you.

Sara S

10-22-2011, 08:15 AM

Let's occupy this corner! Make it close to home and personal!

scamperwillow

10-24-2011, 02:29 PM

I was wondering why they would schedule something as important as that in the middle of what is for most people, a work day? Kind of ensures a low turn out, I would think.

Folks could have shown up at 4:30 or 5 and still gotten in on the public hearing.....

oliviathunderkitty

10-24-2011, 02:36 PM

Folks could have shown up at 4:30 or 5 and still gotten in on the public hearing.....

A lot of people, especially those unfamiliar with such meetings, likely wouldn't know this. I wonder if there is a way, next time, to tweet the time or some such. It seems that might be a very effective use of social media. Personally, if I hear there's a 3 p.m. meeting, I think I need to show up at 3 p.m. and would be hesitant to arrive two hours later.

scamperwillow

10-24-2011, 02:59 PM

A lot of people, especially those unfamiliar with such meetings, likely wouldn't know this. I wonder if there is a way, next time, to tweet the time or some such. It seems that might be a very effective use of social media. Personally, if I hear there's a 3 p.m. meeting, I think I need to show up at 3 p.m. and would be hesitant to arrive two hours later.

Yes, this is where becoming a student of such meetings and really paying attention comes in handy. Peter had posted that there were a few items before this item so it probably wouldn't come up until 3:30 - which is what happened. Then after the staff and developer reports, they adjourned to a break and then another item (which I found strange) at about 4:30. So I had to leave at that point, but I'm guessing the public hearing didn't start until at least 5:00. Tweets or facebook posts would be useful for this IF people were actually looking and watching for such posts.

scamperwillow

10-25-2011, 11:26 AM

Peter, could you give us a brief update on what happened at DRB, what action was taken if any and what happens next?
Thanks,
Marty

Letter to the Editor, Sonoma West:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

CVS and the Design Review Board<o:p></o:p>

The DRB continued to hear the CVS/Chase project after nearly rejecting it at last Wednesday’s meeting. The Design Review Board had requested specific site changes in July. The Developer came back last Wednesday (10/19/11) with a nearly identical site plan and firmly stated that many changes weren’t going to happen. Apparently his clients are frustrated with the City’s demands. I hope the Sonoma West will choose to cover the next DRB meeting. It could be crucial. Several areas need to be addressed including pedestrian features of the project, traffic flow into and out of the project and the two buildings’ architectural qualities. This is a very important project situated the heart of Sebastopol’s downtown and will have a very big impact on the look and feel of the downtown as well as traffic congestion. There are very reasonable concerns. I hope that the Sonoma West will deem it newsworthy and that more people will become aware of this important upcoming meeting at the DRB. If the DRB does not approve the project, the Developer may appeal it to the City Council. What a show down that would be.<o:p></o:p>

Peter Schurch, DRB member<o:p></o:p>

scamperwillow

11-07-2011, 02:50 PM

Peter, could you give us a brief update on what happened at DRB, what action was taken if any and what happens next?
Thanks,
Marty

I just heard this is coming back to DRB on Nov. 16 - is this true?

Peter Schurch

11-12-2011, 08:03 AM

The next Design Review Board hearing of the CVS/Chase project will be Wednesday 11/16/11 at 4:00 at the Veterans Building. The CVS proposal should start around 4:15 with slide shows by the developer.

Dianala

11-14-2011, 08:25 AM

The Design Review Board will hear the developer's new proposal on the CVS/Chase project again on Wednesday, 10-19-11 at 3:00 at the City Hall. Comments from the audience are welcome.

Has there been any other proposals for that site? I think the best way to change this up is for a new developer to propose an alternative plan that provides a more appropriate type of business for Sebastopol. There is a strong trend to "buy US made goods" and a store on the East Coast has made a name for itself. It is called "Made in the USA" and now has 300 goods/products available for sale. People are coming from all over to buy there, or just come to see it. What a novelity! Local investors, where are you?

scamperwillow

11-14-2011, 10:04 AM

IMPORTANT

Meeting Place Moved - Design Review Board meeting on CVS/Chase/Armstrong

Moved To Vets Hall Dining Room, 282 So. High St

Wednesday, Nov. 16, 4 pm

Please attend whether or not you intend to speak, your presence and support for the DRB is important and powerful.
To find the true current application go to the City of Sebastopol web site / City Services / Planning / Special Projects / CVS-Chase 11-16-11 / page 42-45

1104GT

11-14-2011, 10:18 AM

Below is the text of an email that i sent to our design review board members. They need our support and to hear our voices at the upcoming meeting.

Mr. Schurch, Mr. Douch, Mr. Beauchamp, Mr. Deedler, and Ms. Massey:

I am writing again regarding design review of the proposed CVS/Chase project. As you know, my opinion is that the proposed design is suburban in nature and inappropriate for this downtown location. I understand your position and need to respond to the developer with specific quantifiable direction, so want to offer my thoughts on why I feel this way and offer conditions by which I think this project might be approved.

Suburban vs. Downtown
First, let's address why this project is suburban in nature. There is a fundamental difference in human behavior between downtown and suburban developments. In suburban developments and at this development, people arrive by car, park at or near the front door of their destination, enter, shop and then depart. They seldom interact with other stores in the center and almost never interact with the street or sidewalk. Suburban developments are designed to encourage and reward car-centric, anti social behavior that has eroded the community fabric of our society.

Human behavior in a downtown places a much higher value on social interaction. If this development was downtown in nature, shoppers would walk downtown or park behind the buildings or in remote locations and navigate on foot to sidewalks where they enter stores and interact with their neighbors. Downtowns consciously trade auto-centric convenience for social interaction. Understanding this difference is essential when evaluating any design proposed downtown.

Local Examples
You can see examples of both types of development right in our downtown today. You can also see how even one small lot developed in a suburban way can negatively affect or even kill the vibrancy of a street. Walk on the South side of Bodega Avenue from Main Street to the Pellini lot and notice how the pedestrian experience dies as soon as you pass Jasper O'Farrell's and cross the driveways in front of the WestAmerica bank drive-thru. The same is true of Rite Aid, Safeway and the Whole Foods center. The sidewalks in front of all are dead relative to Main Street. The three three conditions that will destroy a sidewalk experience are:

1. Driveways and drive-throughs - they are dangerous to pedestrians and break up the sidewalk experience
2. Parking lots fronting streets - When walking or shopping, I will cross a street to avoid them
3. Lack of windows - The South side of Westamerica Bank and the North side of Silk moon are both unpleasant examples.

Essential Design Elements to Decide Which Type You Have
Downtowns:
- Parking behind buildings or in City lots
- Storefronts are accessed off the sidewalk
- Windows offer views into businesses
- Buildings are oriented to the street and do not have gaps between them
- Access uses the City street grid, not driveways

Suburban developments:
- Parking along streets
- Parking directly in front of store entries
- Stores are oriented toward the parking lot
- Mid block driveways
- Pad developments (gaps between buildings)
- Drive-thoughs
- Buffers, "treatments", public artwork, trellises, elaborate landscaping and other "mitigating measures" to try to make us feel better about them.

It's pretty easy to see which type this is.

Our General Plan Mandates Downtown Solutions
By describing parking lots hidden behind buildings, pedestrian passages to the sidewalk, storefronts on the street etc., our General Plan is very specifically describing a downtown type of human behavior that our citizens want in the core of our town. Describing the character of our town is the essential but often overlooked purpose of our General Plan.

Getting down to nuts-and-bolts, I offer the following conditions of approval:

Site Plan Design Conditions of Approval
- Eliminate the mid-block driveway
- Do not allow parking fronting Petaluma. Move parking behind building and either move the buildings together or introduce a plaza between.
- Reduce sidewalk size
- Eliminate the canopy covering the sidewalk
- Remove the trellis

Building Architecture Conditions of Approval
- Demand real windows fronting the street. You wouldn't allow solid stucco walls, so why are opaque glass walls Ok?
- Do not allow advertising or promotional graphics or "skins" in glass.
- Mandate an architectural feature/landmark design element on the corner of Petaluma and Bodega
- Reduce the scale of the entry and drive-thru porticos. Monumental superficial entry architecture is only appropriate in big-box developments when storefronts are viewed across vast parking lots.

Finally, I urge you to be demanding on our behalf and don't be tempted by tricks and gimmicks like trellises, large sidewalks, buffers, landscape features and misleading renderings. These are there for the single purpose of distracting you and us from the fact that they are proposing a development that does not belong downtown. Do not be swayed by threats from the developer either. Just because they have worked hard doesn't mean the result is an acceptable project. Make it clear that it is not the use that doesn't fit. CVS operates in downtown environments all over the country. It is the suburban design that we object to.

Helen Shane

11-14-2011, 01:35 PM

scamperwillow

11-14-2011, 04:08 PM

And if you can't get there by 4, PLEASE come at 5 - it will still be going on!

IMPORTANT

Meeting Place Moved - Design Review Board meeting on CVS/Chase/Armstrong

Moved To Vets Hall Dining Room, 282 So. High St

Wednesday, Nov. 16, 4 pm

Please attend whether or not you intend to speak, your presence and support for the DRB is important and powerful.
To find the true current application go to the City of Sebastopol web site / City Services / Planning / Special Projects / CVS-Chase 11-16-11 / page 42-45

scamperwillow

11-16-2011, 10:58 PM

Please- those that were there, give us an update. I had to leave at 5:15. What a great turnout - glad to see people finally showed up!

scamperwillow

11-17-2011, 10:29 AM

Great turnout last night - they had to keep bringing in more chairs.

John Eder

11-17-2011, 12:00 PM

Please- those that were there, give us an update. I had to leave at 5:15. What a great turnout - glad to see people finally showed up!

The meeting ended around 8 P.M. Three of the DRB members strongly and eloquently voiced their opposition to the current proposal, on a variety of good, solid grounds. They essentially indicated that a quantum leap was required- a new start from scratch on a more urban design. A fourth member expressed moderate opposition, but was okay with most of it as long as some changes were made. The final member voiced tepid opposition/support, and vacillated back and forth until their position and views were completely obscured. I will let you assign names to these roles. The applicant's new "no more Mr. Nice Guy" representative spoke and said, basically, that they had bent over backwards, had complied with all requests, and that the project was in full compliance with all city codes, regulations, etc. They were very proud of what they had produced, and while they were willing to tweak small aspects, it was their final offering. The driveway on Petaluma was non-negotiable, the buildings weren't moving, the architecture was fairly final, etc.

A motion to deny was made but not seconded, so further discussion ensued. Wisely, the DRB asked the Planning Director to craft actual findings upon which to deny, in order to avoid the ambush that the Planning Commission walked into with the City Council. These were going to be brought back to the next DRB meeting for final denial of the project. A suggestion was made to continue the matter, giving the applicant one more opportunity to re-think their position before the project is denied. Thus, it will be back again at the next DRB meeting, although I don't hold out much hope, given the applicant's entrenched position, that it will have a positive outcome.

So, what's next? The applicant will appeal the denial by the Design Review Board to the City Council, just like they did with the Planning Commission's denial (and we all know how that turned out...).

A MOTION, A SECOND AND THREE "YES" VOTES BY OUR CITY COUNCIL WILL RESULT IN THE PROJECT BEING APPROVED.

Sorry for the all caps, but it is that simple. It could all be over in a flash at one meeting. All of our angst, passion, opinions, perceptions of what "Sebastopol" means- all of it will be rendered meaningless.

What is your job at this point? All of us need to start communicating with our council members now (today). We need to get out in front of this issue before it comes up for a vote at the City Council. Many people in town know one or more members of the council. They may even be a good friend of yours. Remind them that they represent the citizens- not CVS, not the Chamber of Commerce, not the property owners, etc. Many of you may have donated money to their campaigns or worked hard to get them elected, and they owe many of you a political favor- it is now "payback" time (let's all pretend that we are in Washington, D.C.). They will be under enormous pressure to approve this project. "How can you look a gift horse in the mouth?" "They are willing to do so much for our town." "Free sidewalks and street improvements (which any developer of that site can be required to provide)", "We need the sales tax revenue (which we are already getting from their existing store)." and on and on. They will be made to feel like fools if they don't approve it, and our city staff will be fully supporting the rush to approval. If warranted, we can point out to our council members that we will work just as diligently to get them "unelected" if they approve the project, possibly prior to the end of their current terms. Also let them know that you plan to actively join a boycott of these businesses if the current plans are approved and the project is built (not nearly as much of a threat as threatening to end to their political careers, however).

Some citizens don't want any project at this location. This is the least likely of the outcomes of this process. Others think that a different project should be built on this site. This is more likely than no project, but it would be amazing if the current applicant capitulated or relented significantly after the investment that they have made to date. Still others think that what has been proposed is great and the process should move on towards approval. This is a highly likely, and may be the view held by enough of our council members to assure approval. Finally, there are those who, recognizing the high likelihood that this project (or something similar) will eventually be built, are pushing to have our city hold out for a stellar project- a complimentary enhancement to our downtown. Something that we are all proud of, are drawn to and that celebrates the uniqueness of our town that we hold so dear. I am among this last group. This project, as currently proposed, does not meet my personal vision for what should be at that location. I am fearful that, given small town politics, economic pressures and egos, it will get built despite our protests- I've seen it before.

Now is the critical time to speak up- call or email our council members, send them a letter c/o City Hall, tell all of your friends to do the same, write a letter to the editor of the Press Democrat, Sonoma West Times and News, the Bohemian- let your views be known. The citizens of Sebastopol need to have their voices heard as often and in as many places as possible.

Use these resources:

City Council Members:
Mayor Guy Wilson [email protected]
Vice Mayor Michael Kyes [email protected]
Kathleen Shaffer [email protected]
Sarah Glade Gurney [email protected]
Patrick Slayter [email protected]

Address letters to:

Councilmember/Mayor ____________
City of Sebastopol
P.O. Box 1776
Sebastopol, CA 95472

Letters to the Press Democrat (Maximum 200 words, include your name, address and phone number. Only your name and city will be shown in the paper): [email protected]

Letters to Sonoma West Times: Fill out online form at https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/
or mail them a letter at 137 S. Main Sebastopol, CA 95472

Letters to the Bohemian: [email protected]

Contact the applicant, Armstrong Development Properties, Inc.(William McDermott) at: [email protected]

Contact the Sebastopol-based designer of the project, Kevin Kellogg, at: [email protected]

If you need more addresses, phone numbers, etc., indicate so in a post on this forum, and I will provide them.

Finally, our council members need legally-defensible grounds upon which to deny this project or cause it to be radically altered from its current configuration. Although it may be true, letters stating "big companies suck", "banks are evil", "I hate big boxes (this does not qualify as a big box project)", "build a park there", etc. will likely have little impact on them, and are not grounds to be cited by them to deny or alter the project. Sorry- that's how the real world works, especially when lawyers get involved.

This is where you come in. Get up to speed on what is going on with this project- your knowledge, passion and your voice is your power. The project developers are relying on your silence and that of your friends- don't be their tool.

If you have questions, see the city's website at https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/special-projects. All documents are listed under "CVS/Chase Project, 6877 Sebastopol Avenue" in the middle of the page. The latest plans, etc. can be found at https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/drb_staff_report_final_design_review_cvs-chase_111611.pdf

If you have additional questions, post them here. Or call the Sebastopol Planning Department at (707) 823-6167, or email the Planning Director, Kenyon Webster, at [email protected]

The eleventh hour is here now, and the CVS/Chase developers know it. They have played this game in over one hundred other cities and towns, per their own admission, and they are counting on our failure to act in an effective manner. This is likely our last chance to affect change here, folks. If it matters to you, spread the word far and wide and get to work now.

scamperwillow

11-17-2011, 01:36 PM

Excellent post, John - thanks for all the detail. At the risk of getting stoned from all directions, I have to say I am a little mixed here. I think the project has improved greatly and could be improved more. What specifically does DRB not like? What do YOU not like? Can this project still be changed enough to be acceptable? I sure am not crazy about having CVS in the center of town - AT ALL. I think it is fine right where it is and they should spend their money improving the current location. But I do acknowledge the property owners right to sell and develop, and legal ways to stop it might not exist if it fits the zoning and so forth.

I would love to see a better, locally owned project on that site. Where is that project? Where is the money to build it? It's not going to be a park - the city can't buy it. Being a deserted deteriorating set of bldgs is not helping our downtown. I frankly do not see traffic as a big issue - I know, Blasphemy!! Traffic is going to be bad there no matter what happens. Did you see how many people raised their hands that they had walked or biked to the meeting? That is our long term traffic solution. And buses and trains.

I see two options that are doable here:
1) Continue working with DRB until the project gets "good enough." I didn't hear anything about solar panels or charging stations - both no-brainers. A huge flat roof like that! And maybe making enough demands will make the developer withdraw.
2) Find someone to offer the Pellini's a better price for the property that will build a better project or donate it to the City for an art center or something.

This is all off the top of my head.....so I might change my mind listening to more arguments.

John Eder

11-17-2011, 02:42 PM

Here is another document that you should review- the City of Sebastopol Design Review Guidelines. These are concrete, defensible grounds upon which to deny the CVS/Chase project or cause it to undergo major revision prior to approval. See it at: https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/griffinj/design_review_guidelines_2010.pdf

Section I, Site Planning, Item A1. under Neighborhood context, states "Infill development should be sensitively designed to respect existing patterns, and reinforce the character and context of existing neighborhoods.... . Does this project layout appear to be consistent with the balance of our downtown core?

Section I, Site Planning, Item C3. Circulation and parking- Pedestrian, read 3 a, f and g.

Section II, Architecture, Item A, Relationship to surrounding architecture. Read A1 regarding compatibility. Read B1 through B8 regarding Massing.

Section II, Architecture, Item C, Elements, Item 1p states "The architectural style and exterior materials of each proposed structure shall be designed based upon the architectural traditions of Sebastopol and Sonoma County, the architectural styles prevalent in the site vicinity, and the characters of the site, as determined by the Design Review Board." Do you think that this project blends into our downtown core?

Read all of Section IV. SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES, Item A, Downtown and Pedestrian-Oriented Commercial Frontages and Facades.

Ironically, we have stringent standards for fast food drive thrus that don't apply to drug store drive thrus. Under Section IV. SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES, Item C, Fast Food Restaurants, it states: "Drive through elements should generally be discouraged. Where drive though elements are appropriate, they should be architecturally integrated into the building, rather than appearing to be applied or "stuck-on" to the building. Drive through elements should not be located on the street side of the building or should be heavily screened from view."

These are the existing standards, among others, that can be used to contest this project's current configuration.

leela8

11-17-2011, 03:48 PM

Traffic is going to be bad there no matter what happens. Did you see how many people raised their hands that they had walked or biked to the meeting? That is our long term traffic solution. And buses and trains.

Just a quick sidebar to this aspect of the issue:

For those of us who are disabled (and this doesn't just mean loss of leg use--cardiac problems, mitochondrial disease, disautonomia and orthostatic intolerance are just a few "invisible" disabilites) the options you mention are not actually options. Those of us who are disabled and/or live in outlying areas have no other option than to use our cars.

Also, a large majority of people crossing that intersection appear to be going to SR or points further than walking/cycling/existing public transport can allow.

Having two drive-through-based businesses at the major point of traffic confluence in our little town is a BIG issue, IMO, and one that merits serious (re)consideration since, as I've mentioned before, the developer gets to walk away with their bundle of cash while the townspeople get, well, stuck in traffic...

And I don't think we have to throw up our hands and presume traffic will always be bad there. I have seen Sebastopol spend a lot of money on strangely cosmetic-looking street works--surely some brains and dollars can come together to reroute the traffic through town?

I came here after the decision to make Main Street go one-way exactly at the point of intersection of the two highways--has there ever been talk of rethinking that? I feel confident there are enough smart minds here to make our little town more easily navigable.

John Eder

11-18-2011, 01:05 AM

IMPORTANT:

It was brought to my attention that all email correspondence to individual city council members should also be copied to the Sebastopol Planning Director, Kenyon Webster, at [email protected] to insure that your comments are entered into the official public record for the project that is maintained by the city.

All correspondence sent by mail to individual city council members should also be copied to the Planning Director, Kenyon Webster, at:

City of Sebastopol
Planning Department
714 Johnson Street
Sebastopol, CA 95472
Attn: Kenyon Webster

1104GT

12-07-2011, 10:10 AM

CVS/Chase Back at Design Review - PLEASE SHOW UP AND SUPPORT THE DRB IN DEMANDING BETTER DESIGN! If we don't support our appointed officials, we get what we get.

(copied from another forum) ... The Sebastopol Design Review Board (DRB) will meet Wednesday, 12/7/2011 at 4 P.M. in the lunch room at the Sebastopol Veterans Memorial Building for final design review of the proposed CVS/Chase project on the site of the former Pellini Chevrolet dealership.

See the agenda at: https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/def...drb_agenda.pdf
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/events-and-meetings/12_07_11_drb_agenda.pdf)
and the Staff Report: https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/def...hase_12711.pdf (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/drb_staff_report_final_design_review_cvs-chase_12711.pdf)

This is a continuation of this subject from the last meeting, where it was fairly obvious that at least three of the five DRB members would have voted to deny the project's application. At that meeting, it was determined to give the applicant one more time to reconsider desired changes to the current proposal. One of those three members may not be present for this meeting, so how the voting will go is up in the air. The staff report contains both conditions for approval and the conditions for denial crafted by the city staff, and then come back before the DRB one additional time for final, official denial. The denial will then very likely be appealed to the Sebastopol City Council by the developer.

PLEASE show up and support your Design Review Board members who are attempting to hold the line against this project as it is currently configured. Also, start contacting our council members to let them know how you feel. Their contact information can be found under the "CVS/Chase" thread on this forum.

The Owl

12-07-2011, 05:57 PM

scamperwillow

12-07-2011, 07:02 PM

The whole project was denied in short order by the DRB. It will surely be appealed to the City Council soon - so stay tuned!!

Helen Shane

12-07-2011, 07:41 PM

Today, after a hearing of less than an hour and a half, the DRB voted 3 to 1 to deny approval of the Project at 6877 Sebastopol Road (formerly Pellini Chevrolet). The applicant had made a request, citing the Brown Act, to disallow public comment at this meeting. Helen Shane of the Committee for Small Town Sebastopol, Sebastopol Council Vice Chair Michael Kyes and Thomas Morabito of Occupy Sebastopol spoke in favor of the public's right to comment at the meeting. It appeared that would be the case. However, it became evident early in the proceedings that at least three of the DRB members, not including Chair Zachary Douch, were prepared to deny approval of the application. A motion to deny the application made by DRB member Peter Schurch, and seconded by DRB member Bob Beauchamp passed on a three to one vote. Voting Aye were Schurch, Beauchamp and Lynn Deedler. Voting nay was Chair Zachary Douch. DRB Alternate Lindsay Massey was not present.

The attached document was given to each DRB member via email prior to the meeting, delivered to their desk at the meeting place, and was widely distributed to the approximately 100 people in attendance at the meeting. DRB members Beauchamp, Deedler and Schurch gave their reasons (findings) for denial.

The applicant made it plain they will appeal to the Sebastopol City Council the decision of the DRB. They must do so within five business days. Given the long weekend closing of Sebastopol City offices, that lands the deadline for appeal on Thursday, December 15. The next City Council meeting is set for December 20. It is not known on when the expected appeal will be agendized for action by the Council.

nicofrog

12-10-2011, 04:57 PM

Chase IS the Evil overlord

Chase/City/BofA ugly !% greed driven usurers...
Count me in to picket the site!

Nico

I would love to be part of a large turn-out of people representing the desire for downtown Sebastopol to grow with more local stores, not corporate chain retail.
To help get as many people there on Wed. as possible, can someone please post the address where the design review will be held. I don't know where to go, but I want to be there!
Thank you, thank you...

Barry

12-15-2011, 01:44 PM

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/ImagesforMembers/2011-12-15_1343.pngThe Design Review Board's denial of the CVS/Chase project has been appealed to the City Council. A special session has been scheduled for a Public Hearing on the appeal on Monday, January 23 at 6pm at the Sebastopol Community Center. Written comments may also be submitted to the City Clerk. The notice of appeal is attached.

scamperwillow

12-15-2011, 02:05 PM

Barry - you beat me to the punch! I was just going to post the same thing.:wink:

The Design Review Board's denial of the CVS/Chase project has been appealed to the City Council. A special session has been scheduled for a Public Hearing on the appeal on Monday, January 23 at 6pm at the Sebastopol Community Center. Written comments may also be submitted to the City Clerk. The notice of appeal is attached.

Helen Shane

12-15-2011, 03:11 PM

Update Sebastopol City Council

To support (or not?)

the appeal of the denial by the

Design Review Board on the

CVS/Chase/Armstrong application.

Tell the Council to vote to support their DRB and their Planning Commission
and deny the CVS/Chase appeal to prevent their move to
“the core of the core of town”at the junction of Hwys 12 and 116,
Sebastopol Road and Petaluma Avenue.

The Council meets
Monday January 23rd
at 6 p.m.
Main Hall at the
Sebastopol Community Center

390 Morris Street.

Send your comments to each City Council member and to

the City Clerk by January 16, 2012 for inclusion in the official record.

Mayor Guy Wilson [email protected] ([email protected])

Vice Mayor Michael Kyes [email protected]

Council members:

Sarah Glade Gurney [email protected] ([email protected])

Kathleen Shaffer [email protected]

Patrick Slayter [email protected]

City Clerk Mary Gourley [email protected]

For the city legal notice go to:

https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/events-and-meetings/cvs_legal_hearing_appeal_january_23_2012_cc_meeting_notice.pdf (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/events-and-meetings/cvs_legal_hearin_aappeal_january_23-2012_cc_meeting_notice.pdf)

Envision what our town really needs at "Pete's Corner".

Barry

12-19-2011, 12:09 PM

Give 'em hell, Helen! :thumbsup:
- Barry

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif

Sebastopol project faces opposition
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111218/articles/111219530?p=all&tc=pgall
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Sunday, December 18, 2011 at 8:40 p.m.

The controversy swirling around the proposed CVS Pharmacy in Sebastopol continues, with the city Design Review Board to meet this week and formally adopt the reasons it has rejected the project design.

“The design is modern, trendy and out of character with the surrounding buildings, out of character with mainstream Sebastopol, and the community loves the feel of the classic, old downtown,” said Lynn Deedler, vice chairman of the design board. “This project doesn't fit in with that at all.”

The board voted to reject the development's design on Dec. 7 and will vote on adopting the findings Wednesday. The rejection is being appealed to the City Council by the developer, Armstrong Development Properties of Sacramento.

The developer contends the design of the $10 million project conforms to city guidelines.

Planning Director Kenyon Webster said the project is at a standstill until a design is approved by the Design Review Board or the City Council. The council plans a public hearing Jan. 23 on the appeal. [See more info about the meeting here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?80014-CVS-Chase-development-proposal&p=144899#post144899)]

Armstrong Development Properties is proposing to build a 14,576-square-foot CVS Pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot Chase Bank branch at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.

The plan for the prominent 2.4-acre site, is being challenged by the Committee for Small Town Sebastopol. The group contends the project will create additional traffic and emissions and is out of character with Sebastopol's small-town feeling.

The group has sued the city, contending it should require the developer to conduct a complete environmental impact report. The City Council in July ruled a full impact report was not necessary, reversing the Planning Commission.

Opposition leader Helen Shane said she doesn't believe that CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank belong at that highly visible location, which should instead be pedestrian-oriented development of shops facing the streets with apartments on the second floor.

“I don't think that those two franchises and their designs for the project can be made acceptable,” Shane said. “I want to see something else entirely.”

A spokesman for Armstrong Development did not return a call seeking comment.

prana

12-19-2011, 01:16 PM

This is a compilation of older posts on the topic...trying to provide a way for people to get out a quick letter to the city council before the Jan. meeting...there's a link to a great draft letter, and more talking points can be found in the wacco forum online...thanks everyone for all your efforts

GREAT DRAFT LETTER and petition: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sebastopolcvs/

The Council meets
Monday January 23rd
at 6 p.m.
Main Hall at the
Sebastopol Community Center
390 Morris Street.

Send your comments to each City Council member and to
the City Clerk by January 16, 2012 for inclusion in the official record.

Mayor Guy Wilson [email protected]
Vice Mayor Michael Kyes [email protected]
City Council Members:
Kathleen Shaffer [email protected]
Sarah Glade Gurney [email protected]
Patrick Slayter [email protected]
City Clerk Mary Gourley [email protected]

Address letters to:

Councilmember/Mayor ____________
City of Sebastopol
P.O. Box 1776
Sebastopol, CA 95472

Letters to the Press Democrat (Maximum 200 words, include your name, address and phone number. Only your name and city will be shown in the paper): [email protected]

Letters to Sonoma West Times: Fill out online form at https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_wes..._news/opinion/ (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/)
or mail them a letter at 137 S. Main Sebastopol, CA 95472

Letters to the Bohemian: [email protected]

Contact the applicant, Armstrong Development Properties, Inc.(William McDermott) at: [email protected]

Contact the Sebastopol-based designer of the project, Kevin Kellogg, at: [email protected]

Barry

12-20-2011, 11:24 AM

Thanks for posting this! Note that the Draft Letter/petition is addressed to the Planning Commission, where as the next/final action will be taken by the City Council. Any letters that are sent should be addressed to the City Council.

Barry

This is a compilation of older posts on the topic...trying to provide a way for people to get out a quick letter to the city council before the Jan. meeting...there's a link to a great draft letter, and more talking points can be found in the wacco forum online...thanks everyone for all your efforts

GREAT DRAFT LETTER and petition: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sebastopolcvs/

Barry

01-16-2012, 10:18 PM

The CVS/Chase project is being appealed to the City Council on Monday, January 23rd at 6pm.
More info here. (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?86765-CVS-Update-next-meeting&highlight=cvs)

Barry

01-20-2012, 04:36 PM

There's a new thread called "Trying to get support for the Pellini's Corner Development for Monday's Council Meeting (https://Trying to get support for the Pellini's Corner Development for Monday's Council Meetin)" started by Taishon, who supports the project, and wants to "Debate all reasonable objections".

Perhaps some of you would like to raise your issues there and see what happens... It would be good if this project got a thorough re-assessment before Monday's Public hearing.

Please post your objections there.

scamperwillow

01-23-2012, 01:58 PM

Barry - tried to go to that page but got a dead link.... : (
Would love to see it if you can fix. Thx.

There's a new thread called "Trying to get support for the Pellini's Corner Development for Monday's Council Meeting (https://Trying to get support for the Pellini's Corner Development for Monday's Council Meetin)" started by Taishon, who supports the project, and wants to "Debate all reasonable objections".

Perhaps some of you would like to raise your issues there and see what happens... It would be good if this project got a thorough re-assessment before Monday's Public hearing.

Please post your objections there.

scamperwillow

01-23-2012, 02:00 PM

Tonight is the meeting at the City council in the large room at the Community Center - 6:00 p.m. Remember the issue they are addressing is the Design Review Board's denial of the design. So speakers should be familiar with the findings of the DRB and speak to those issues - rather than "it's not appropriate for Sebastopol". They can't deny the project based on that. They need factual findings. See you there!

1104GT

01-31-2012, 10:16 PM

This is not over. The appeal of the DRB decision is being heard next Tuesday night at 6. Write or call the City Council members. Here's my letter to the Council:

Dear City Council Members,

Thank you for your time and dedication to our town. I truly appreciate your efforts and the efforts of the Design Review Board. I also want to commend you in maintaining a civil atmosphere at the last meeting. Nicely done!

I am writing regarding the upcoming review and decision to approve or deny the CVS/Chase developer's appeal of our Design Review Board's (DRB) decision. I support the DRB's denial of the application and hope you will do the same. Our DRB made a wide and informed decision on behalf of our town. I am a firm supporter of good development in our town, but believe that Sebastopol should be very demanding of projects in our downtown.

I attended most, if not all of the DRB meetings reviewing this project. The core issue with this project lies in the suburban nature of the site plan which results in a building turning it's back on the sidewalk and the most important corner of our town to focus on the parking lot. This issue came up at the very first design review meetings and continued throughout the process but was never resolved or even addressed by the developer. Being a suburban developer, I don't think the applicant comprehends the differences between suburban and downtown site planning. Being unable to figure out how to respond, they turned their attention to adding things with friendly names like "trellises", "boulder gardens", "rain gardens" and "window skins" to screen the inadequate design. These only exist to distract us (and you) from the core problems with the site plan. Our DRB was correct in recognizing this fundamental problem and denying the project on those grounds alone. Without recognizing downtown/urban differences, our downtown will be doomed to dwindling vibrancy.

There is a fundamental difference in human behavior between downtown and suburban developments. In suburban developments and at this development, people arrive by car, park at or near the front door of their destination, enter, shop and then depart. They seldom interact with other stores in the center and almost never interact with the street or sidewalk. Suburban developments are designed to encourage and reward car-centric, anti social behavior that has eroded the community fabric of our society.

Human behavior in a downtown places a much higher value on social interaction. If this development was downtown in nature, shoppers would walk downtown or park behind the buildings or in remote peripheral locations and navigate on foot to sidewalks where they enter stores and interact with their neighbors. Downtowns consciously trade auto-centric convenience for social interaction. Understanding this difference is essential when evaluating any design proposed downtown.

Local Examples or Downtown and Urban
You can see examples of both types of development right in our downtown today. You can also see how even one small lot developed in a suburban way can negatively affect or even kill the vibrancy of a street. Walk on the South side of Bodega Avenue from Main Street to the Pellini lot and notice how the pedestrian experience dies as soon as you pass Jasper O'Farrell's and cross the driveways in front of the WestAmerica bank drive-thru. The same is true of Rite Aid, Safeway and the Whole Foods center. The sidewalks in front of all are dead relative to Main Street. The three three conditions that will destroy a sidewalk experience are:

1. Driveways and drive-throughs - they are dangerous to pedestrians and break up the sidewalk experience
2. Parking lots fronting streets - When walking or shopping, I will cross a street to avoid them
3. Lack of windows - The South side of Westamerica Bank and the North side of Silk moon are both unpleasant examples.

Questionable Comments from the Last Meeting
The following statements were made at the last meeting that I disagree with:

1. This is a "transitional" property linking downtown and the industrial areas of town. That may be what it is now, but not what it should become. It is at the very center of our town and should be the epicenter of downtown redevelopment.

2. This project agrees with the General Plan goal to provide parking at the periphery of downtown. This property should not be viewed as in the periphery. It's in the dead-center of town. Excessive parking is inappropriate.

3. This project fits in with the immediate context. - While I agree that it does, I think most of the existing neighboring buildings are almost all inappropriate for a downtown and should almost all be candidates for higher quality redevelopment. Can't we do better that what's there now?

4. The existing property is blighted, so anything is better than what's there now - I have live here for twenty years. The Pellini building has not been painted, remodeled or even had the windows cleaned in that time. I'm guessing most of the weeds people love to mention have been here for almost that long. If it's blight now, it's been blight for the last twenty years. Besides, is "better then weeds" a good reason to approve a development?

In summary, I think the design Review Board's findings related to the site plan are correct, within their jurisdiction and more than substantial enough to deny the project. The other findings and most of the positive items in the staff report are just peripheral and inconsequential compared to the suburban nature of this development. As I said during my 3 minutes, you can't make a "suburban" project "downtown" just by shoving it up to the street. It takes a City that expects it and a developer or designer who understands it.

City Governance Issues
The other issue that concerns me is one of City governance. The Planning Commission (appointed by the Council) denied the application but did not articulate their reasoning. Rather than insisting that they render findings appropriate to their position, you overturned their decision. Now you are considering overturning the decision of another of your appointed boards. If you overturn the DBR, you will be admitting that the Council has made inappropriate appointments to our trusted boards and commissions. I would think you would then disband both boards, since you will have deemed them ineffective. If that occurs, we the voters then need to reconsider the judgement and trust we have placed in the Council. Do we want our City to run on the decisions of only five people? I do not elect City Council members to be Planning Commissioners and Design Review Committee members. I elect them trusting in their good judgement in making appointments. These are challenging issues that should be taken very seriously by all of us.

Again, I thank you for you time and trust you will chose the path that makes our City better, not just "better than weeds".

dominus

02-01-2012, 10:31 AM

In the book "The Geography of Nowhere: the Rise and Decline of America's Man-made Landscape" written by James Howard Kunstler is the idea that the extreme cult of individualism and personal property is at the basis of the American nightmare. American individualism "degrades the notion that the private individual has a responsibility to the public realm thus creating cities where public spaces are indeed devalued and trivialized."

Beautiful and meaningful architecture can move our spirits, it can also facilitate community and a deeper connection with one another. To trivialize that is to strike at the very heart of what it means to be human.

The simple truth is that no one, not one single person, can own the land, or own the water, or own the air. It's not possible. Any land which we preside over is a form of stewardship. Therein rests the crux of the problem because it's short-sighted and egocentric to think that the land is ours to do as we please with. Our moral responsibility can not rest only on economics. It must be rooted in something deeper and more human. And what could be more human than to look deep into the future through our grandchildren's eyes and know that we found the strength and vision to make the right choices for them and subsequent generations?

Magick

02-01-2012, 10:51 AM

THANK YOU SO MUCH! The realization of this simple truth is essential if we are to make the evolutionary leap that will bring us into reunion with all life and provide a thriving future for our grandchildren. As Tracy Chapman said,

"Don't be tempted by the shiny apple
Don't you eat of a bitter fruit
Hunger only for a taste of justice
Hunger only for a world of truth
'Cause all that you have is your soul

I thought, thought I could find a way
Beat the system;
Make a deal and have no debts to pay
Take it all, I’d take it all, I'd run away
For me myself first class and first rate
But all that you have is your soul..

May we find our way back to the communion of community and gather in the common spaces once again. In peace, Magick

In the book "The Geography of Nowhere: the Rise and Decline of America's Man-made Landscape" written by James Howard Kunstler is the idea that the extreme cult of individualism and personal property is at the basis of the American nightmare. American individualism "degrades the notion that the private individual has a responsibility to the public realm thus creating cities where public spaces are indeed devalued and trivialized."

Beautiful and meaningful architecture can move our spirits, it can also facilitate community and a deeper connection with one another. To trivialize that is to strike at the very heart of what it means to be human.

The simple truth is that no one, not one single person, can own the land, or own the water, or own the air. It's not possible. Any land which we preside over is a form of stewardship. Therein rests the crux of the problem because it's short-sighted and egocentric to think that the land is ours to do as we please with. Our moral responsibility can not rest only on economics. It must be rooted in something deeper and more human. And what could be more human than to look deep into the future through our grandchildren's eyes and know that we found the strength and vision to make the right choices for them and subsequent generations?

Helen Shane

02-01-2012, 11:40 AM

Dominus' mention of James Howard Kunstler is so apt for this situation. Thanks to D for submitting, and to Magick for her comment on it, and all the people in the Sebastopol community who have come together over this. Helen Shane.

P.S. See you at the Farm Market Sunday....

and Tuesday night at 6 at the Community Center

"Mad" Miles

02-01-2012, 01:41 PM

"Our moral responsibility can not rest only on economics. It must be rooted in something deeper and more human. And what could be more human than to look deep into the future through our grandchildren's eyes and know that we found the strength and vision to make the right choices for them and subsequent generations?"

Watch out Dominus!! Writing stuff like that might get you labeled a "Communitarian" by some self-proclaimed defenders of Democracy and Freedom!

Always bear in mind that Communitarianism = Fascism = EVIL!!!

Forget that at all of our "collective" peril...

Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:burningmad:

:banghead:

authenticeye

02-02-2012, 10:22 AM

Who's for a grassroots movement ~
"Any land which we preside over is a form of stewardship."
Thank You Dominus for that statement*
I lack specifics but am I correct to presume the first step is to purchase the lot - is development design a necessary piece to being able to offer a bid on the property?
What that price tag is I do not know - I was informed that it would depend on the CVS/Chase proposal -
What of developing a trust for the purchase of the property - can it really be that impossible - with the intention of becoming a community Co-op business corner -
Co-op's take many shapes - let's be one of the unique ones.
This post has had over 13,000 visitors through it's day -
13,000 people at $20 pledges already provides a nice down of $260,000 ~
doesn't seem too impossible
What if our conscious collective Wacco communtiy were capable of causing effective transformation through "six degrees of separation"?
We all have friends in "far off places" who would jump in an a heart beat to help establish something worthy for the community.
I believe in the supportive power that bounces between all of us through to the global infinite degree -
I thank SeeSaw for first planting this idea of a youth hostel in my head through one of their letters to the city council.
This is something that arose after the New Year and persisted me for weeks.
I even contacted Hosteling International-USA and learned they can not take on a new project but that they would support a hostel/make it an affiliate if it met their standards.
There is a tourist industry to be tapped that Sonoma County is missing out on ... having had a history of traveling to other countries I can attest that it would be a fruitful outcome for Sebastopol and all surrounding communities were we to actualize a "Common Ground".

One Common Ground Co-Op:
Of the People, by the People, for the People</SPAN>
Sections</SPAN>
Core Elements</SPAN>
Benefits to Project</SPAN>
Funding Source</SPAN>
Funding Goals</SPAN>
Next Step</SPAN>

Core Elements</SPAN>
*Youth Hostel (as suggested by SESAW)
(nearest is in Pt Reyes, Sacramento and Sausolito)</SPAN>
</SPAN>
*Rotating art installations by local artists (5-8 week periods)</SPAN></SPAN>
Committee formed to take applications - draw from global interests as well</SPAN></SPAN>
* Mural of the world on pavement - based on world map idea in Mimi’s</SPAN></SPAN>
*Supports CittaSlow Movement</SPAN></SPAN>
* ....Perhaps solar powered spiraling archways through the lot - </SPAN></SPAN>
* A waterfall installation that might work with drowning the traffic noise ...?</SPAN></SPAN>
* Foot Bridges crossing over 12 and over N Petaluma at suggested crosswalk improvement spots by Development Committee</SPAN></SPAN>
Public Safety issues: </SPAN></SPAN>
Artistically crafted meshing to protect pedestrian and motorist</SPAN></SPAN>
Turnkey or gate to make bicyclists walk bikes over bridge</SPAN></SPAN>
Accessible for handicap</SPAN></SPAN>
Earthquake safe</SPAN></SPAN>
*Circle of Cob benches for outdoor gatherings : Living Earth Structures other local cob artists</SPAN></SPAN>
* Cobb buildings for rotating food vendors (monthly/ bimonthly) fully equipped;</SPAN></SPAN>
allowing chefs/ caterers/non-profits opportunity to raise money</SPAN></SPAN>
*Giant chess board - such as found as a feature of Christchurch, NZ (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/canterbury-earthquake/92158/giant-chess-board-a-feature-of-christchurch-again) </SPAN></SPAN>

Benefits to Project
Sebastopol Will Embody the Gateway Energy That it Holds on its Shoulders
A community driven economy - services/restaurants will thrive
Supports the values of Sebastopol
Re-Use of space creatively, with local and global community involvement
Traffic slows down -
entering town : foot bridges on either side capture attention
the mental energy of the commuters shift - attention shifts to Common Ground Co-op and the invitation to stay a bit longer in Sebastopol is initiated
The curiosity that leads people to Florence Avenue (Patrick Amiot, https://www.patrickamiot.com/view.html) will be experienced as visitors enter town - lead National Geographic to talk about more than just our “apple pie”.
Funding Source
Create a Trust for the Co-Op, funds held at local credit union
A plaque be installed marking gratitude to initial large contributors
Global On-Line Pledge Drive
“I pledge to donate $____ to the vision of Common Ground Co-Op”
Matching Funds
Set up various contribution markers for matching
Create a pledge form html that can be added to any person’s website
Funding Goals
Funds to purchase lot
Funds to demolish existing structures and remove concrete
Funds to build foot bridge
Funds to add shared parking area between lot and Frizelle Enos
Funds for landscaping/grass lawn : Maintenance contracted to Graton Day Labor
Funds for initiating art installations
Funds to build Youth Hostel

Perhaps as motion of “peace offering” invite CVS/Chase owners to be a matching donor (if they meant what they said about serving the community) </SPAN>

Thanks for reading - May the council see the truth of the project's design issues and support DRB's rejection : having attended two of the meetings late last year I heard the requests by DRB for an optional layout repeatedly with no results given by the applicant -

Let's be the change makers we are capable of being ~*~

Barry

02-03-2012, 05:28 PM

There's a protest about CVS/Chase tomorrow (Sat, Feb 4th):

We Will Meet @ Occupy Sebastopol anytime leading up to noon on Saturday Feb 4th, when we will rally and move/march to the CVS shopping center where we will protest @ Chase Bank and CVS.

Please come show support for limiting the influence of corporate greed.

Please come show support for the Design Review Board.

Please help fight to keep our downtown free from traffic and construction congestion.

Please stand up to ongoing corporate development patterns that gentrify communities without their approval!

Eileen M.

02-03-2012, 06:37 PM

Power to the Peaceful :heart:

Barry

02-08-2012, 01:01 PM

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Sebastopol City Council rejects proposed CVS design
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120208/articles/120209590?p=all&tc=pgall

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20120208&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=120209590&Ref=AR&MaxW=445&border=0

SG Ellison, vice president of development at Armstrong Development Properties, Inc.
addressed questions about the CVS project in Sebastopol at a Sebastopol City Council
meeting on Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2012.
CRISTA JEREMIASON/ PD
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 7:08 a.m.

A controversial proposal by CVS Pharmacy to develop at one of Sebastopol's most visible intersections suffered a major setback Tuesday night when the City Council rejected its design plans.

“I am not willing to say that what was submitted to the Design Review Board is the best that can be done,” said Mayor Guy Wilson.

The council on a 3-2 vote sided with the Design Review Board's decision to reject the design of the CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank proposal at Sebastopol and Petaluma avenues.

The developer, Armstrong Development of Sacramento, had appealed to the City Council to overturn that denial, claiming it had already changed many aspects of its design, met city guidelines and had reached an impasse with the Design Review Board.

“This is a better project because of the outpouring of involvement in town,” said SG Ellison, Armstrong vice president of development. “This is a better project than when we submitted it, it fits well into the community.”

Despite having already received the necessary approvals from the City Council to go ahead, the development has remained a divisive issue that has been debated in more than a dozen long and tense meetings.

The Design Review Board rejected the developer's proposal as being out of sync with Sebastopol's Main Street character.

The decision by the council Tuesday night came after more than four hours of council questioning on design details, from the size of a portico on the southwest side of the building, the placement of the trash receptacles, the size of plaza to how many windows are actually allow people to look from the outside in.

In the end, however, the deciding factor was where the project was to be located, at the vacant Pellini dealership, and whether it was part of Sebastopol's downtown core or a transition zone between retail and industry.

“I do like the design of this building. I do not believe that this is Main Street,” said Councilwoman Kathleen Shaffer. “This is a transition zone, this is an industrial location and this building fits in with the buildings on Sebastopol Avenue. A block away we are selling tractors.”

Councilwoman Sarah Gurney disagreed, saying it was the first intersection seen as people drive in from the east and is part of the downtown core.

“I don't see it as a transitional zone,” Gurney said. “I think our city wants a downtown that is a grid of streets that is more than two blocks square.”

Architect Kevin Kellogg of Sebastopol said the architecture tries to reflect both, with storefront, sidewalks and trees that are all associated with Main Street.

“We believe we have emulated the architecture of Main Street,” Kellogg said.

The City Council, however, decided that the Design Review Board had not overstepped its bounds when it denied the design.

The city staff will now draw up a list of the reasons the council discussed, including the size of a portico and a low wall fronting a parking lot, to try to give direction so the design can move forward.

Wilson, Vice Mayor Kyes and Gurney voted for the denial, with council members Patrick Slayter and Shaffer voting to grant the appeal.

Armstrong Development is proposing to build a 14,576-square-foot CVS Pharmacy and a 4,327-square-foot Chase Bank branch at the intersection of Sebastopol and Petaluma avenues.

CVS and Chase already have facilities elsewhere in Sebastopol and would relocate to that corner, the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.

It is the second time the developer, Armstrong Development Properties of Sacramento, has asked the City Council to intervene.

The City Council on June 5 overruled the Planning Commission, which had also rejected the CVS Pharmacy proposal, and also decided that the CVS project could go ahead without a full environmental impact report.

The $10 million project has been controversial since it was first proposed in the spring of 2011, with the opposition being led by the Committee for Small Town Sebastopol.

The group wants something other than CVS and Chase at the corner, such as a two-story development with shops on the bottom and housing on top, along with less parking.

The group has also filed suit in Sonoma County Superior Court challenging the council's decision to not require a full environmental impact, which it believes is warranted by the amount of traffic that will be generated at the already-congested intersection.

You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].

Barry

02-08-2012, 01:04 PM

The City Council rejected the CVS/Chase design last night! :Clap:
See the PD article here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?87349-Sebastopol-City-Council-rejects-proposed-CVS-design&p=147509#post147509).

Barry

02-08-2012, 01:13 PM

Yay!

This was a brave decision on behalf of our city council! No doubt this is not the end of the story...

Peacetown Jonathan

02-08-2012, 04:06 PM

:Clap:
Sometimes, sometimes the good side wins. By one vote...

Some true colors were on display last night, and I hope that Sebastopol's voters remember these on Election Day this year.

Council Member Shaffer's comment, as cited in the PD, was this:
“This is a transition zone, this is an industrial location and this building fits in with the buildings on Sebastopol Avenue. A block away we are selling tractors.”

Industrial location? Give us a break! In a previous post I suggested that Ms. Shaffer was acting more like a lobbyist than a Council Member representing a majority of the people in Sebastopol. This quote affirms my characetrization. JUST what a lobbyist would say. Sheesh! I am glad she is up for re-election in November.

On a brighter note, Guy Wilson is up for re-election, and he stuck his neck out for this vote. Let's remember his courage, and support, when November rolls around as well,:heart:

because those promoting and profiting from this potentially catastrophic project, and their friends, will be coming after Guy in the Election, crowing about what's "good for (BIG) business is good for Sebastopol" and "jobs" and the like. To which I say: whose business? MOST LOCAL business and 99% of our local people will NOT benefit from this deal.

Guy and Sarah and Michael stood up to two multi-billion dollar corporations on behalf of our ecology and our community :heart:
THANK YOU!! :WaccoRays:

rossmen

02-08-2012, 11:23 PM

yesss! and guy is a very careful lawyer. this was surely the most he would do, send it back to the drb "circus" (rotary member quote). we will see how persistant cvs/chase is. i guess that chase is an investor and hopes that higher per square foot sales for cvs will boost the stock price, so a smaller store in the center of sebastopol with a drive through pharmacy capturing even more of west county drug money makes perfect sense with a corporate thinking hat on!

and at a certain point (hopefully), it won't pencil out and these corporate pitbulls will move on to better fighting elsewhere, content to life on the edge of this small wonderful town, and will let go their grip (option to buy teeth), on the neck (crossroads).

Yay!

This was a brave decision on behalf of our city council! No doubt this is not the end of the story...

Peacetown Jonathan

02-09-2012, 09:25 AM

Firstl, a big THNAK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! to Guy and Sarah and Michael for showing their true colors and voting against this corporate juggernaut wanting to catashtrophically transform the crossroads into our small town, despite the traffic and air pollution it would cost us the rest of our lives.

I do hope CVS gives up; and that Sebastopol can focus on a less impactful and more local buyer of the Pellini property. We at Occupy Sebastopol have a "boycott CVS if they move" petition which we have dozens of signatures on already, with tens of thousands of dollars in lost existing reveneue pledged if they mover (if they move, we move to Rite Aid and others!). More on that coon--but we have it in the protest tent in town square if anyone wants to jon the many who have signed on. We would like them to rethink the economics of this deal, as you suggest below. They have not listened to our 1,000-plus petition, or the sentiment of our cuty council or planning or design review boardl Money is the only language they understand and hopefully we can express, through our community';s actions, that they will not make money here if they do this, and they will move on and peddle their drive through drugs, with idling cars polluting local air, somewhere else.

<br><br>
yesss! and guy is a very careful lawyer. this was surely the most he would do, send it back to the drb "circus" (rotary member quote). we will see how persistant cvs/chase is. i guess that chase is an investor and hopes that higher per square foot sales for cvs will boost the stock price, so a smaller store in the center of sebastopol with a drive through pharmacy capturing even more of west county drug money makes perfect sense with a corporate thinking hat on!

and at a certain point (hopefully), it won't pencil out and these corporate pitbulls will move on to better fighting elsewhere, content to life on the edge of this small wonderful town, and will let go their grip (option to buy teeth), on the neck (crossroads).

Barry

02-10-2012, 01:46 PM

Here's Dave Abbott's article in Sonoma West Times and News (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/) about the CVS decision which includes more detail - Barry

https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8459/logosonomawest.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)

Sebastopol City Council denies CVS/Chase DRB appeal: Decision puts major stumbling block in way of development
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/news/article_c36642a2-52a2-11e1-a311-0019bb2963f4.html?cbst=21

Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:16 pm | Updated: 6:28 pm
by David Abbott Sonoma West Editor [email protected]

On Tuesday night, in another 4 and ½ hour meeting that featured a response by the appellant, but no public comment, Sebastopol City Council voted to deny an appeal of the Design Review Board's decision to halt the proposed CVS/Chase project.

The decision creates a major stumbling block for the development of the Pellini property by Armstrong Development Properties, Inc.

The Sebastopol Community Cultural Center was not quite as full for Tuesday's meeting as it was for the Jan. 23 hearing. There were plenty of empty seats and the crowd trickled out throughout the evening as Council questioned Armstrong/CVS/Chase representatives who tried to convince them to uphold the appeal so that the project could move forward immediately.

Armstrong's Vice President of Development S.G. Ellison said that he appreciated the support from the community in the wake of the DRB's denial of the project in December, but that he "didn't quite understand the grounds for denial."

"The DRB abused its discretion," he said. "The DRB based its decision on opinion," rather than facts.

Ellison went on to cite comments made by several DRB members at the Jan. 23 meeting that the developers had issues with. Bob Beauchamp, Peter Schurch and Lynn Deedler were singled out for their perceived role in the break down of negotiations that took place over the course of eight DRB meetings and last month's public hearing.

"We could no longer interpret what they wanted," Ellison said, adding that by his interpretation, some of the DRB's demands were in direct contradiction to design guidelines.

He also took exception to comments made by DRB members, such as saying that Armstrong architects did not understand design guidelines and that the developers should "eat humble pie" and return to the DRB.

Ellison said that complaints about the development being too big didn't make sense either, as the project is much smaller than design guidelines allow.

The project would include a 14,576-square-foot CVS pharmacy/retail store with a drive-up window and a 4,327-square foot branch of Chase Bank, 105 parking spaces, an alcohol sales permit, new street landscaping with wider sidewalks and several improved vehicle entrances on Petaluma and Sebastopol avenues.

"It's a better project," he said of its evolution through the process. "With the outpouring of involvement in town ... it's absolutely a better project than if you gave us carte blanche."

The process for the development began in February 2010, when CVS/Chase submitted its initial proposal. From April to June 2011 there were four DRB and Planning Commission meetings, with the Planning Commission denying the project on June 14.

On July 5, City Council overturned the Commission's decision and approved an application for an alcohol use permit and the abandonment of Barnes Avenue - which will be widened and improved, with a caveat that the city can reacquire it if it so chooses - paving the way for the development to go through.

But the design review process became increasingly contentious over the course of the final months of 2011, with several long meetings culminating in the denial of the design and an immediate appeal by Armstrong.

The Jan. 23 hearing saw about 250 people packed into the Community Center and included more than 50 speakers, many in favor of the project. The hearing was carried over to give the applicant an opportunity to respond and allow the Council to ask questions and deliberate.

Much of Tuesday night's discussion surrounded aesthetics - Vice Mayor Michael Kyes was concerned about the screening of the trash enclosures - use of open space and zoning.

While Councilmember Kathleen Shaffer stated her belief that the area is "not part of Main Street" and is industrial in nature, Councilmember Sarah Gurney disagreed, arguing that as the first intersection in town, it is part of the city's core.

"It's right there with central downtown," she said. "It's one block from the Plaza ... and two blocks from City Hall, the Chamber of Commerce and the post office."

Gurney and Kyes also took exception to the stated economic benefits of the $10 million project, saying that the report of $500,000 in sales tax revenue and $100,000 in property taxes were overstated.

"It's not true," Kyes said. "If it were, they'd be stocking the shelves now."

Kyes said that he believed the numbers would be more in the $62,000 range for sales tax revenue and "$15,000-$20,000" in property taxes.

Kyes did, however, like the added parking, saying that he would be happy if there was even more included in the proposal.

Gurney appreciated the infrastructure benefits, but argued that would happen no matter what development took place on the site and also questioned the economic benefits.

"The businesses are already in town," she said. "If they downsize the store, I don't know if their revenues will go down."
Gurney also pointed out that the bank would not be a source of sales tax revenues and stated her belief that the open spaces on the site would not be a draw for people as there was nothing there to attract them, such as a business like Screamin' Mimi's on the northwest corner of the intersection.

She defended the members of the DRB and asked Council to "respect our action appointing them" last December.
There was unanimous agreement that the design needed further work, but the Council was split on whether to deny or allow the appeal.

Armstrong representative Bill McDermott asked Council to allow the project to move forward, or to somehow provide a mediator should they have to go back to the DRB, saying that the previous meetings were "loud and threatening."

In the end, the vote was 3-2 - councilmembers Patrick Slayter and Shaffer voted to uphold the appeal, while Mayor Guy Wilson, Kyes and Gurney voted to deny.

City staff will provide findings at the next Council meeting, scheduled for Feb. 21, unless a special meeting is scheduled later this week, as the issue must be decided by Feb. 23.

With the findings, the developer can reapply and begin the process again, unless it decides to walk away from the project or sue the city.

AJL

02-11-2012, 12:56 AM

How about a car dealer that only sold all the alternative fuel and electric hybrids from all the makers.
Volt, Prius, Leaf, etc, under one roof.
Use all the existing buildings, lease the place for a percentage of the sales.

b.w. rose

02-11-2012, 12:29 PM

Sebasto-damer Platz ?

Mostly, this is addressed to an issue raised by Helen....
Although I paid minimal attention to this issue, I have to confess I thought this was about moving two businesss from one location to another within the City of Sebastopol.
But, then, I read your ad in the local newspaper and one statistic struck me as most interesting to the whole debate.
Twenty-six feet high?
Really?
That is more than twice the height of the Berlin Wall !!
(11.6 feet)

Barry

02-11-2012, 12:43 PM

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Sebastopol officials defend rejection of CVS project's design

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120210/ARTICLES/120219924/0/FRONTPAGE?p=all&tc=pgall
(https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120210/ARTICLES/120219924/0/FRONTPAGE?p=all&tc=pgall)
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Friday, February 10, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.

The design of the proposed CVS Pharmacy-Chase Bank project in Sebastopol changed over the past year from cookie-cutter corporate to a bamboo-colored building with large windows, a plaza and broad walkways fronting the streets.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20120210&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=120219924&Ref=AR&MaxW=198&border=0
(https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120210/ARTICLES/120219924/0/FRONTPAGE?p=all&tc=pgall)Enlarge (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120210/ARTICLES/120219924/0/FRONTPAGE?p=all&tc=pgall)
These photos shows the existing
view and an artist's rendering of
what the Sebastopol location
being considered for a new CVS
store would look like.

The CVS and Chase buildings, which would look unlike any others in the nation, were designed by Sebastopol architect Kevin Kellogg. But after six hearings before the Design Review Board and two before the City Council, the project still didn't pass muster.

“Yes they came back many times, but the focus should be on how good can we get,” said Lynn Deedler, design board vice chairman. “They started with something that was awful, and they moved slowly off of that. They eventually ended up with an attractive building, but the architecture was not fitting for the Sebastopol location and the surroundings.”

Initially, the Sacramento developer proposed a large white building with the CVS corporate logo and with a drive-through pharmacy window that wrapped around the building at the intersection of Sebastopol and Petaluma avenues, the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.

Armstrong Development of Sacramento is proposing to build a CVS Pharmacy and a Chase Bank branch at the site.

After the original plan was rejected, Armstrong hired Kellogg, who redesigned the 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and Chase branch with different colors, lower heights, windows, a plaza and a wide walkway, and 8,000 square feet of garden that filters rain runoff before it runs into the storms drains and the laguna and moved the drive-throughs to the interior of the project.

But Armstrong and the Design Review Board hit a dead end when the board asked that a driveway on Petaluma Avenue be eliminated, the parking lot down-sized, and the Chase building be redesigned and moved closer to the CVS building.

The City Council on Monday spent four hours discussing the design, coming up with its own design critique before ruling the Design Review Board had acted within its authority. The council, however, did not adopt any specific design recommendations.

While there is obvious community sentiment against CVS or Chase moving to that prominent corner from elsewhere in town, City Council and design board members officials said there is no intent in their decisions to keep CVS or Chase from locating that the site.

“In many of the emails I have received over the past month is the desire to keep CVS out of downtown, but I am not quite sure where that sentiment is coming from,” said Councilman Patrick Slayter.

“It is private property. It was decided by the City Council. It met the zoning code and the negative declaration of the environmental impact report was certified,” Slayter said. “To my way of thinking, isn't downtown where you want banks and pharmacies to be located?”

Slayter and Councilwoman Kathleen Shaffer were the only two on the council that voted to approve the project design.

Zachary Douch, chairman of the design board, whose five members are appointed by the City Council, said the design board has ruled only on the merits of the design.

“It has focused on the design issues and made a decision based on those,” Douch said. “Who the applicant is is not relevant.”

Douch also said that he thinks they can find a middle ground.

“I think the applicant understands the critical issues the Design Review Board has highlighted, and so with some redesign work I believe there could be some resolution,” Douch said. “It is hard to say how much redesign work is required. It wasn't the easiest project for design review. “There were stumbling blocks.”

The intersection is one of Sebastopol's most visible, most congested and, because it is on the edge of both Main Street and industry, one of the most sensitive.

“I believe they can take essentially the same building footprint but do things architecturally with it that will give it a look that resonates more with community expectation, the old-time Sebastopol look, rather than the contemporary industrial look,” said Mayor Guy Wilson.

The developer already has received the major necessary approvals to develop the CVS store and Chase branch at the 2.4-acre site, at a cost of about $10 million.

On June 5, the City Council overturned the Planning Commission denial of the project and also ruled that a full environmental impact report did not need to be done.

The project still needs approval from the Design Review Board after six hearings, said Planning Director Kenyon Webster.

When Armstrong rejected those final changes, the Design Review Board denied the proposal, which Armstrong appealed to the City Council, arguing that the design met city guidelines and the board overstepped its bounds.

In a 3-2 vote, Wilson, Kyes and Councilwoman Sarah Gurney voted to uphold the board, while Slayter and Shaffer voted against it.

Armstrong can now reapply to the Design Review Board, abandon the project or file a suit.

Armstrong officials last week either declined comment or did not return repeated phone calls asking for comment on what they may do next.

You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].

Dustyg

02-12-2012, 05:21 PM

Since when is a town/community denied the right to guide it's own development, to keep it's coherence and ambience? Can big, corporate stores come in and simply demand a place of prominence in a little town like ours? What about democracy?

dominus

02-12-2012, 07:00 PM

I can understand a negative declaration in the context of "benign" downtown zoning conditions however the prospective CVS project will be at the junction of 2 state highways with no dedicated turn lanes nor the existing 3 entrances/exits which currently exist at the Redwood S/C. The developers want to spend 10M to make this move so as to capture more traffic, lots and lots of traffic. So downsizing the building is irrelevant because the underlying implication is that traffic won't be effected when they're hoping that there will be an increase in traffic. Why spend 10M otherwise? In all likelihood, an EIR would, undoubtedly, determine that traffic and circulation would be significantly impacted. It would stand to reason, this project shouldn't have even been approved in the first place without an EIR.

What can be done when zoning conditions are in direct conflict of interest to what should be a sensible given in this case and that is a mandatory EIR?

Helen Shane

02-12-2012, 08:17 PM

Happily, we do have the General Plan, the Zoning Ordinance and the DRB Guidelines that proved to the City Council that the Design Review Board was correct in its refusal to approve the site plan and the architectural elements and that the Planning Commission was correct in its 4-2 vote to deny approval. If the concerns of the Planning Commission had been properly conveyed to the City Council in the minutes of that meeting, this whole chain of events would not have occurred. Please know that the DRB does have jurisdiction over the traffic circulation in that it was the site design, with the two businesses at opposite ends of the parcel, and an in and out driveway between them that would force autos leaving either store and the lot to cross three lanes of traffic and a bike lane to get to the signal to take a left turn to go west. This situation compounds an already congested intersection and adds to the problem of pedestrian and auto passenger safety. In addition, the problems with the access and exit to/from the property, with its drive through pharmacy and its drive up ATM at the Chase Bank would have added to the grid lock on Hwys. 116 and 12, which of course adds another burden of greenhouse gas to our atmosphere.

podfish

02-13-2012, 08:24 AM

Can big, corporate stores come in and simply demand a place of prominence in a little town like ours? What about democracy? I think that's a misleading way to frame it. Anyone with the means to purchase the property can "demand a place of prominence" by buying something prominent that's for sale. "Democracy" doesn't have anything to do with it. We do have limits on property rights, because no property is truly private - we're all affected by the way it's developed. So "democracy" comes in there. The citizens do get a voice in the policies that limit property owner's rights. But that doesn't mean that there -are- no private property rights if the neighbors complain enough. This isn't going to be that simple.

Helen Shane

02-22-2012, 09:04 PM

Update 2/22/12

CVS/Chase/Armstrong

We’re happy to report that the system, when implemented faithfully, works.

At the meeting last night the draft text of the findings for the CVS/Chase/ Armstrong application, to be memorialized in a Resolution by the Sebastopol City Council, was projected on a big screen; edits by Council members were made, then and there. The public at this critical public meeting were able to observe the deliberations.

The document was openly discussed, at length, among Council members, and no passage was approved until voted on by a majority of the Council.

Maintained in the findings were most of what the DRB findings set forth, including:
the sensitive issues of the midblock driveway that would add to the already congested core of the downtown;
the architecture not reflective of the unique character of Sebastopol;
the formula architecture designed to dominate the area and designed for advertising purpose;
the project does not sufficiently address solar access/energy conservation considerations.
And much, much more.

When the resulting document went to a vote, Mayor Wilson, Vice Mayor Kyes and Council member Sarah Gurney voted to approve. Council members Shafer and Slater voted no.

Now the ball is in Armstrong’s court. Among their options: they can submit a new application that would undergo Planning Commission and Design Review Board scrutiny, and would or would not require a full EIR; they can submit a modified application; they can drop the notion to move downtown, or they can sue the City. Whether or not the existing Mitigated Negative Declaration would still be valid is apparently up to the Planning Department with City legal counsel, to determine.

In the meantime, the lawsuit by Committee for Small Town Sebastopol remains in place. This requires payment of attorneys. Can you help?

Copy the following into your browser:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=PQP4AS959VZX6 (corrected)

and you will access the PayPal process.

Our apologies for the very late reminder for last night’s Council meeting,

John Kramer, Helen Shane, Jane Nielson for the

Committee for Small Town Sebastopol

Sara S

02-23-2012, 09:26 PM

Helen, thank you for all the information you continue to post here.

Update 2/22/12

CVS/Chase/Armstrong

We’re happy to report that the system, when implemented faithfully, works.

At the meeting last night the draft text of the findings for the CVS/Chase/ Armstrong application, to be memorialized in a Resolution by the Sebastopol City Council, was projected on a big screen; edits by Council members were made, then and there. The public at this critical public meeting were able to observe the deliberations.

The document was openly discussed, at length, among Council members, and no passage was approved until voted on by a majority of the Council.

Maintained in the findings were most of what the DRB findings set forth, including:
the sensitive issues of the midblock driveway that would add to the already congested core of the downtown;
the architecture not reflective of the unique character of Sebastopol;
the formula architecture designed to dominate the area and designed for advertising purpose;
the project does not sufficiently address solar access/energy conservation considerations.
And much, much more.

When the resulting document went to a vote, Mayor Wilson, Vice Mayor Kyes and Council member Sarah Gurney voted to approve. Council members Shafer and Slater voted no.

Now the ball is in Armstrong’s court. Among their options: they can submit a new application that would undergo Planning Commission and Design Review Board scrutiny, and would or would not require a full EIR; they can submit a modified application; they can drop the notion to move downtown, or they can sue the City. Whether or not the existing Mitigated Negative Declaration would still be valid is apparently up to the Planning Department with City legal counsel, to determine.

In the meantime, the lawsuit by Committee for Small Town Sebastopol remains in place. This requires payment of attorneys. Can you help?

Copy the following into your browser:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=PQP4AS959VZX6 (corrected)

and you will access the PayPal process.

Our apologies for the very late reminder for last night’s Council meeting,

John Kramer, Helen Shane, Jane Nielson for the

Committee for Small Town Sebastopol

Helen Shane

03-10-2012, 08:16 PM

CVS/Chase/Armstrong

Latest Challenge

CVS REMAINS A THREAT TO OUR DOWNTOWN: CVS/Chase/Armstrong, having been denied design approval by the Sebastopol City Council, is likely to return with a tinkered design and expect approval of their move to our already congested downtown core.

No permutation of CVS on that parcel at the congested junction of Hwys 12 and 116 will benefit Sebastopol, either aesthetically or financially.

In fact, some predict a drop in revenue if they move, because of the ill will they’ve generated. It would indeed be a lose-lose outcome.

The Committee for Small Town Sebastopol has filed a lawsuit challenging the City Council’s wrong-headed approval of the environmental documentation for the project. It is essential that we aggressively pursue the lawsuit until a truly satisfactory and final outcome is realized. This requires money, for attorney fees and court costs.

We have just interviewed and hired Rachel Sater, attorney daughter of the late Superior Court Judge Rex Sater. She is a partner in the law firm of

Moscone Emblidge & Sater llp

https://www.mesllp.com/
Check their client roster.
We need $20,000

for the Small Town Sebastopol law suit fund.

We have a head start-just received

an offer of up to $3,000

as a donation to be matched by you and your friends and everyone else in Sonoma County who cares about what goes on in our community.

A victory here will set back CVS/Chase in

its drive to take over small towns throughout the U.S.

Check your budget; dig deep, then copy and paste into your browser:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=PQP4AS959VZX6

or, if you prefer, send your check to

Committee for Small Town Sebastopol,

c/o Exchange Bank, 720 Gravenstein Hwy. No. Sebastopol, CA 95472

Please do it now. We need to keep the pressure on.

John Kramer, Helen Shane, Jane Nielson

for Small Town Sebastopol

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

leeanngans

03-14-2012, 09:20 AM

How do you think congestion is going to be after the new Barlow development is completed? Instead of negative protest, how about a feasible solution? I haven't heard any of the protesters step up with any real solutions to the percieved problem...and I mean a solution that actually involves purchasing the property and developing it in such a way that everyone is happy. CVS is taking over small towns in America? I don't know what laws you adhere to, but I'm free to chose where I shop. Maybe you should give it a try......

CVS REMAINS A THREAT TO OUR DOWNTOWN: CVS/Chase/Armstrong, having been denied design approval by the Sebastopol City Council, is likely to return with a tinkered design and expect approval of their move to our already congested downtown core.

Helen Shane

03-14-2012, 10:20 AM

Dear LeeAnn:

Thank you for asking publicly. This gives me the opportunity to respond.

You raise several issues. I have suggested, in a number of arenas to many people, that the City of Sebastopol join in a public/private partnership to buy the property, the price for which, if CVS is defeated, would be appropriately adjusted. The town would benefit if there were built small shops/workshop spaces on both street frontages, and studio, one and two bedroom affordable rental housing on two stories above. All parking would be interior, for businessses and tenants. No driveway on Petaluma Ave. All motorized vehicle egress/ingress would be through Barnes and Abbott Aves, properly engineered to carry such traffic. We might consider two or three pedestrian/bike paths at strategic points along Petaluma Ave and Sebastopol Road, to allow access for same to interior.The buildings would be articulated, with lots of see through glass; property to be retained by the city, and managed by professionals to be selected through a bidding process. There are entities that facilitate such arrangements, and I have spoken with one. Problem is that it can't be advanced until the present optioner (Amstrong Development for CVS/Chase) is out of the picture, permanently, or has agreed to participate in such a venture.

As to the Barlow property and its traffic impacts, unlike the Pellini property it is not located at the junction of two State highways, so it's traffic impacts are not comparable, especially since that plan was changed from the original one proposed one that was called for 300 homes, 80% of which would have been priced at market rate.

I'm so glad you asked. I love to talk about my vision for Pete's corner. Thank you. Helen Shane.
Cell ph. 206-1891

How do you think congestion is going to be after the new Barlow development is completed? Instead of negative protest, how about a feasible solution? I haven't heard any of the protesters step up with any real solutions to the percieved problem...and I mean a solution that actually involves purchasing the property and developing it in such a way that everyone is happy. CVS is taking over small towns in America? I don't know what laws you adhere to, but I'm free to chose where I shop. Maybe you should give it a try......

Geni Houston

03-14-2012, 11:48 AM

Hi Helen - I hear you have taken your show on the road - now visiting Marin Design Review to stop the CVS in Tiburon. It has been suggested that that is your plan - to go cross country defeating CVS everywhere. If thats your plan - you go Girl! More power to you for your convictions!

But don't go telling anyone that you represent Sebastopol - you don't. You represent a group of people from Sebastopol - big difference. Even if you CLEARLY indicated it was your Committee for Small town Sebastopol, the name in itself is very misleading.

I ask that you change the name of your committee so that other communities who are not so much aware can get the real picture of who is opposing who.

Geni Houston

Barry

03-14-2012, 12:43 PM

I ask that you change the name of your committee so that other communities who are not so much aware can get the real picture of who is opposing who.
In the dubious world of naming private interest groups that often hides who's really behind it and what they really want and why, I find "Committee for Small Town Sebastopol" refreshingly transparent. I think it's clear that it is an interest group and not representing the City of Sebastopol. Is your concern that the word "Committee" could be interpreted to be mean a City of Sebastopol committee? :hmmm:

Geni Houston

03-14-2012, 12:56 PM

In the dubious world of naming private interest groups that often hides who's really behind it and what they really want and why, I find "Committee for Small Town Sebastopol" refreshingly transparent. I think it's clear that it is an interest group and not representing the City of Sebastopol. Is your concern that the word "Committee" could be interpreted to be mean a City of Sebastopol committee? :hmmm:

Quite frankly, yes! Seems very confusing to me but particularly to an outside community
G

Barry

03-14-2012, 08:07 PM

In the dubious world of naming private interest groups that often hides who's really behind it and what they really want and why, I find "Committee for Small Town Sebastopol" refreshingly transparent.

Here's some more examples of that dubious world (thanks to Auntie Wacco!) (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/member.php?3991-Sara-S)

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4652/270fs.jpg

John Eder

03-14-2012, 09:08 PM

Geni-

I think that you need to check your hearing. I hate to disappoint you, but there was no road show to the non-existant "Marin Design Review"- simply a visit to the TIBURON TOWN COUNCIL meeting as observers in the audience. No mention was made of Sebastopol, nor was anything said publically in that venue regarding CVS by out-of-towners. There was no need to, as there were plenty of locals who had nothing but bad things to say about it. How do I know? I was actually there, unlike you. Perhaps you should form the Committee for Inappropriate Crappy Architecture and Manufactured Blight in Sebastopol. It would be difficult to misunderstand your true goals with an appropriate name like that.

Please tell Bill McDermott that I said hello.

Helen Shane

03-14-2012, 09:41 PM

:thumbsup:
In response to Genie Houston's remarks regarding attendance at the Tiburon Town Council meeting, (see below) I sent the following message to Genie, whom I've always considered to be a reasonable person. I didn't realize my message would not be put on the web. Here it is:

:waccosun::waccosun:Hi Genie - Well, contrary to your statement below...we are cautious, thoughtful people and two of us went to Tiburon to observe the CVS issue there. The Tiburon CVS project is well underway; the only real issue being the fact that CVS cut down a large number of trees that had heretofore somewhat shielded the signage on the parcel, and the fact that CVS proposed two large red signs on two street frontages. The upshot of that meeting was that CVS agreed to eliminate the "extra" sign on Beach Road, but would erect a (I think) somewhat modified but still trademark red sign on Tiburon Blvd.

I think that the names Sebastopol Tomorrow and Committee for Small Town Sebastopol are perfectly suitable for those who share in our convictions. Those that don't might think of another name for their group, if they are organized enough to need a name. Maybe "kinda small town Sebastopol" or something like that. I'm sure you can come up one that suits all of you. Thanks for staying in touch. Cheers. Helen Shane btw, if anyone would like to send donations to Small Town Sebastopol, please go to

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=PQP4AS959VZX6
or, if you prefer, send your check to

Committee for Small Town Sebastopol,

c/o Exchange Bank, 720 Gravenstein Hwy. No. Sebastopol, CA 95472

:lotsopeople:

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can
change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that every has. MARGARET MEAD

sambacat

03-16-2012, 02:06 AM

I sent my donation. Thanks Helen, for speaking for most of us!

Barry

03-16-2012, 10:23 AM

I sent my donation. Thanks Helen, for speaking for most of us!

Helen Shane, Sebastopol's Lorax!

https://www.sierraclub.org/ca/coasts/coast_hugger/helen_shane.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hgGWn.jpg

Barry

04-22-2012, 11:19 AM

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Sebastopol CVS Pharmacy developer back with new design
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120419/ARTICLES/120419444
April 19th, 2012

By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8879/pellinichevrolet.pngThe developer of the controversial Sebastopol CVS Pharmacy-Chase Bank proposal is back with a third design aimed at quelling critics’ concerns.

The Pellini Chevrolet building on Highway 12 in Sebastopol.
The latest design calls for a brick facade instead of quasi-industrial metal siding, shields parking from the street, has clear glass windows and scales down the buildings, including eliminating a portico.

It is meant to be more pedestrian-friendly, with walkways, a plaza and trees and also address potential traffic issues.

“It sounds like they have very systematically looked at every issue identified by the Design Review Board and council and are attempting to resolve those issues,” said Mayor Guy Wilson.

Armstrong Development of Sacramento is proposing the pharmacy and bank branch at Sebastopol and Petaluma avenues, one of Sebastopol’s busiest and most visible intersections.

The project has been the subject of a dozen long and often-contentious meetings. While the City Council has given the controversial project most of the approvals it needs to go forward, approval from the Design Review Board is required.

The new design will be on the board’s May 16 agenda.

Armstrong is proposing to build a 14,576-square-foot CVS Pharmacy and a 4,327-square-foot Chase Bank branch on 2.4 acres at a cost of $10 million.

CVS and Chase would move to the site from facilities elsewhere in Sebastopol.

A spokesman for Armstrong could not be reached Monday for comment.

A letter to the city, however, stated “the design of the buildings is based on the adjacent Main Street retail area rather than the previously proposed design which attempted to create a bridge between the historically industrial area of Sebastopol to west of the property and the retail Main Street to the east.”

The design for the property — the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership — is the second by Sebastopol architect Kevin Kellogg.

Some critics don’t believe CVS Pharmacy or Chase should be at the corner at all. They prefer a development of small shops on a bottom floor with apartments on a second floor.

“This is an issue that has caught the attention of the community, and there is a lot of concern and a lot of support about it, too,” Wilson said. “There is a lot of opposition to the CVS project, and some of the opposition is based just on the look, but there are other aspects as well.”

Design Review Board member Lynn Deedler said the board’s decision will not be based on the purpose of the project, but by how it looks.

“It is about the design and that is all that is only going before the board,” Deedler said. “If they have made something that is appropriate to that location in the community, it will go right through.”

You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].

dominus

04-22-2012, 12:05 PM

This issue became about design but, in truth, that was never the real reason why people are opposed to this move. CVS is a big warehouse for cheap products made by large manufacturers from outside our locality. This toxic expansion has altered our earth and the quality of our lives in some very negative ways. The vast majority of these products wind up in our landfills, the making and shipping of them causes pollution. They also are very aggressive about selling over priced medication. Much of this medication does wind up in our drinking water. We're stuck with CVS but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to steam roll over everyone who believes this move is not in our best interests.

I believe it might be worth organizing a national boycott of CVS. Please read my posting below for the reasons.

Sara S

04-23-2012, 05:58 AM

Perhaps not for just those reasons, since there are others who do the same; I have personally boycotted them since they first opened because I bought an OTC item rather than drive to Walmart, and it was more than twice the price that Walmart charged. That was enough for me.

The main reason that we should call for a boycott of CVS is that they are trying their damnedest to elbow their way into a site where a whole lot of residents don't want them. Profits over people; they surely have analysts that tell them that they'll make money in such a visible site even though it will cause all the difficulties for us that have already been discussed here.

This issue became about design but, in truth, that was never the real reason why people are opposed to this move. CVS is a big warehouse for cheap products made by large manufacturers from outside our locality. This toxic expansion has altered our earth and the quality of our lives in some very negative ways. The vast majority of these products wind up in our landfills, the making and shipping of them causes pollution. They also are very aggressive about selling over priced medication. Much of this medication does wind up in our drinking water. We're stuck with CVS but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to steam roll over everyone who believes this move is not in our best interests.

Is it worth organizing a national boycott of CVS for these reasons?

Weiser

04-23-2012, 10:07 AM

While recognizing the merits of your opposition to the CVS Pharmacy moving onto the Pellinini site I need to point out that the CVS group didn't become a success in their field by making bad business decisions. They wouldn't try to "elbow" their way into a community that you suggest has many people who do not want them if they didn't already know that many more people DO. CVS is clearly putting profits first.

I commend you for doing what I do when I don't care for a business. I simply don't give them my business. Clearly CVS won't stay around if people don't shop there. What I object to is a minority of people using the design review process as a tool to make consumer choices for everyone. It has always seemed to me that opponents of CVS don't trust our community to make the "correct" consumer choices.

How you get from point A to point B is important. There are other means of rejecting a business you don't think would be good for the community, but the design process isn't the proper way to go about it.

BTW. What is to stop a small business person from opening up a pharmacy and then later selling out to CVS. I'm surprised that strategy hasn't been tried.

dominus

04-23-2012, 12:37 PM

Shopping at CVS is a personal choice so to suggest that the answer resides in whether or not to patronize them isn't the issue. The largest issue that I believe is of concern is the traffic. The Pellini's site is at the intersection of 2 well trafficked state highways. Any driver who will be traveling on highway 12 heading west that turns left into CVS's perspective Pellini's site will stop all traffic. Period. This will happen. I've seen traffic on a Friday night or during busy commute times back up all the way to Fulton at times. Also, northbound traffic on hwy. 116 will have to slow down at a minimum to allow any drivers turning into the Pellini lot. This will cause traffic to back up considerably, no doubt, beyond the hospital. Additionally, it will be very difficult for any driver on Burnett to cross 3 lanes of traffic so as to head east on highway 12. All of this will also effect CVS shoppers who would be trying their best to accomplish their errands whether they're coming or going. It's important to state that many of CVS's shoppers are elderly who pick up their medications. I shudder to think that this scenario could result in some bad accidents.

Finally, RiteAid will be effected by this change and poses the possibility of a significant downturn in their own business and Redwood S/C will suffer more vacancies than they already have.

NONE of this is good for our community. This is not just business as usual. These are very real issues which will effect virtually everyone who shops downtown. Those who are for this change clearly have their opinions however the issues of traffic and vacancies shouldn't be and, unfortunately, are being glossed over. No amount of "good design" is going to address this.

Obviously these issues are NOT of any concern to CVS, they just want to make more money. They shouldn't be allowed to cause the potential havoc that this perspective move will inevitably result in. CVS or any business shouldn't be allowed to steamroll over others who will have to suffer the consequences irregardless of whether there are members of our community who support this move. CVS's strategy is to "muscle" their way though it to get what they want at the expense of many people. That is not good business. Let's not forget, they are here already. They have a foothold in our community.

I believe a national boycott of CVS would be appropriate. Big business does this all the time and I'm confident with so many people reading about their latest modus operandi on facebook, twitter, etc. etc. This would not be good publicity for CVS and perhaps they would reconsider how they go about accomplishing business.

eeeeeeow

04-23-2012, 01:03 PM

Look, the city staff left everyone out to dry when the planning commission denied this in the first place. This has turned into Friends of Pellinis vs. Sebastopol.

There has been an attempt to portray opponents of the CVS move as a "minority". It was just portrayed as such in yesterday press demo letters section.

I've been going to these meeting from the beginning. The first DRB meeting I attended, there was NO one who spoke who backed the project.

Then there was the meeting in November, I think, at the Vets hall where out of about 60 people, maybe 6 spoke in favor of the plan. It wasn't until Kathleen Shafer and Linda Johnson went under the radar to rally the Rotary Clubs that proponents of the CVS project where strongly represented. And then it's 50/50 at the meetings.

A friend of mine was appalled at the prospects of CVS building there. It only took her two days to collect almost 80 signatures to add to a letter she sent to the City Council.

Out of all the people I speak to, I meet, perhaps, 1 or 2 out of 10 who are in favor. Everyone else is quite upset about this.

When you research the affects CVS has on nthe communities they foece theirr way into, you NEVER see anything positive. There is no "shot in the arm" for any location. In fact, it's just the opposite. CVS is a scrupulous company and I can't for the life of me imagine why our short-sighted business "leaders" are pushing so hard to destroy the integrity of Sebastopol.

While recognizing the merits of your opposition to the CVS Pharmacy moving onto the Pellinini site I need to point out that the CVS group didn't become a success in their field by making bad business decisions. They wouldn't try to "elbow" their way into a community that you suggest has many people who do not want them if they didn't already know that many more people DO. CVS is clearly putting profits first.

I commend you for doing what I do when I don't care for a business. I simply don't give them my business. Clearly CVS won't stay around if people don't shop there. What I object to is a minority of people using the design review process as a tool to make consumer choices for everyone. It has always seemed to me that opponents of CVS don't trust our community to make the "correct" consumer choices.

How you get from point A to point B is important. There are other means of rejecting a business you don't think would be good for the community, but the design process isn't the proper way to go about it.

BTW. What is to stop a small business person from opening up a pharmacy and then later selling out to CVS. I'm surprised that strategy hasn't been tried.

Weiser

04-23-2012, 02:02 PM

Regarding the portrayl of the anti CVS group as a minority. What I was trying to point out is that this corporation if they really believed that wouldn't be continuing to push this issue. They know the customer base is larger than the opposition or why bother.

Your antedotal (hope I spelled that right) evidence of who has majority status in the debate is just that. If you don't interact with people of different persuasions your numbers can be skewed.

Btw. What is the difference between each side rallying to make their point heard in the public forum? As for the "under the radar" comments its hard for me to believe that with how long this issue has been on the burner that all the members of the city council hadn't already made up their minds.

The effects on Rite Aide are irrelavent. Competition is good in this case. Life isn't static.

theindependenteye

04-23-2012, 02:19 PM

I'm sympathetic to most of the arguments against the CVS proposal, though the aesthetic architectural elements need another look as the new plan is presented. But I'm also ambivalent on several elements.

Traffic: Could the concern about traffic impediment caused by cars turning across lanes be addressed by turn restrictions? Is there a significant difference between this plan and the conditions down the road, e.g. Coffee Catz or Benedetti's? Has there been any kind of study regarding the actual vehicular activity expected, in relation to these other businesses? Finally, is it possible to propose any development of this property that wouldn't engender the same arguments about traffic? Seems to me it's not a location where people foot-shopping in the main block of Main St. are going to naturally walk over there to a boutique-style devt. So cars are going to be a factor.

CVS & the bank: If it's felt that those corporations should be excluded from the community, why is there not an immediate movement to picket and boycott them? Is there evidence that they're significantly more evil than their competitors?

Options: A number of proposals for that property have been floated here (community college, arts center, boutiques, etc.). But during the time of the building's vacancy, has any developer come forth with actual plans and potential financing for a different use? Is such a plan likely? I could argue for its viability as a West Coast Puppetry Center, but that's fantasy without mucho millions of bucks and a buncha people busting their ass for five years minimum. I surely don't agree with development-at-all-costs and ask Dow Chemical to come in, or a USAF missile silo (painted green). But how long, o Lord, will that foul eyesore sit there while people daydream with "what-ifs"?

Again, I'm asking these questions in the spirit of devil's-advocate. If the argument against the CVS proposal is really going to be powerful, I think these questions really need to be addressed head-on, not slipped past.

-Conrad

Califoon

04-23-2012, 10:18 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/business/at-wal-mart-in-mexico-a-bribe-inquiry-silenced.html

ya get what ya pay for...cheap is not the issue. Can we claim cultural revulsion? I don't think so. We can only spend our money where we choose and everything else will follow.

Perhaps not for just those reasons, since there are others who do the same; I have personally boycotted them since they first opened because I bought an OTC item rather than drive to Walmart, and it was more than twice the price that Walmart charged. That was enough for me.

Califoon

04-23-2012, 10:28 PM

is an unscrupulous... occupy the language for god's sake, you're speaking in public.

When you research the affects CVS has on nthe communities they foece theirr way into, you NEVER see anything positive. There is no "shot in the arm" for any location. In fact, it's just the opposite. CVS is a scrupulous company and I can't for the life of me imagine why our short-sighted business "leaders" are pushing so hard to destroy the integrity of Sebastopol.

1104GT

04-24-2012, 08:50 AM

A few thoughts:

1. Our City can only regulate types of businesses to the extend allowed by the City's Municipal Code. Going beyond the powers described in the code amounts to tyranny. That said, I agree that the community of consumers may have as much power in this as the City does.

2. I disagree with a previous comment that this isn't about design. To me, it's PURELY about design. Any development downtown has to encourage interaction between the sidewalk and the business, not between a parking lot the the business. Nothing els is acceptable.

3. I also agree with Conrad's comment about no other development being forwarded. We can dream all we want, but we're wasting time if no one can back it up with a plan and financing.

4. While I agree with Conrad's comment about the property being an eyesore, let's face it, the Pellini's have not been the best caretakers of the property ... they haven't painted, updated or maintained the property for decades. The way it looks today is nothing new and in no way motivates me to look favorably on a development proposal that is not appropriately designed for our downtown. New is not necessarily good ... or even better than what we have.

Moving on, the new proposal really isn't new and does not address my main issues. It is still totally rooted in suburban, auto-centric thinking. The interaction between the business and the public is still not on the sidewalk, the building still turns it's back on the most important corner in town and the mid-block driveway still exists. Those are my main problems with the site design and they remain unresolved. Cutesy up the buildings 'till the cows come home, but bad site design is still the deal breaker for me.

Ted

Barry

04-24-2012, 09:36 AM

The new plans can be found here (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/cvschase_plans_04.10.12.pdf).

Here's one set of elevations:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2012-04-24_1450.png

Weiser

04-24-2012, 08:02 PM

Gee. I saw the typo, scrupulous vs. unscrupulous. I understood what the poster meant by the rest of their comments. But "Occupy the language?" Puleese!

Sara S

04-24-2012, 10:37 PM

I can choose not to patronize the businesses, and I can ignore a whole lot of bad design, but if the traffic at that intersection isn't going to be improved by this proposal......then I'll fight!

A few thoughts:

1. Our City can only regulate types of businesses to the extend allowed by the City's Municipal Code. Going beyond the powers described in the code amounts to tyranny. That said, I agree that the community of consumers may have as much power in this as the City does.

2. I disagree with a previous comment that this isn't about design. To me, it's PURELY about design. Any development downtown has to encourage interaction between the sidewalk and the business, not between a parking lot the the business. Nothing els is acceptable.

3. I also agree with Conrad's comment about no other development being forwarded. We can dream all we want, but we're wasting time if no one can back it up with a plan and financing.

4. While I agree with Conrad's comment about the property being an eyesore, let's face it, the Pellini's have not been the best caretakers of the property ... they haven't painted, updated or maintained the property for decades. The way it looks today is nothing new and in no way motivates me to look favorably on a development proposal that is not appropriately designed for our downtown. New is not necessarily good ... or even better than what we have.

Moving on, the new proposal really isn't new and does not address my main issues. It is still totally rooted in suburban, auto-centric thinking. The interaction between the business and the public is still not on the sidewalk, the building still turns it's back on the most important corner in town and the mid-block driveway still exists. Those are my main problems with the site design and they remain unresolved. Cutesy up the buildings 'till the cows come home, but bad site design is still the deal breaker for me.

Ted

Califoon

04-24-2012, 10:42 PM

Yeah, you're right. I had a little wine with friends last night and had been nursing a grip for some time about the decline of grammar spelling and punctuation online among professionals and the population in general. I think it matters to the quality of communication. I see I posted twice and was rather off topic both times. My apologies all around. These things happen. Cal

Gee. I saw the typo, scrupulous vs. unscrupulous. I understood what the poster meant by the rest of their comments. But "Occupy the language?" Puleese!

Sara S

04-24-2012, 10:59 PM

What? I just sent the guy a "private email" saying I thought "occupy the language" was great! What did I miss here? Not the fact that you mis-capitalized in your quote.

Gee. I saw the typo, scrupulous vs. unscrupulous. I understood what the poster meant by the rest of their comments. But "Occupy the language?" Puleese!

rossmen

04-24-2012, 11:08 PM

i think calling for an alternative proposal (with plans and financing!), as a requirement for rejecting the cvs proposal is naive and silly. not that i don't understand the sentiment, after all i floated one! cvs has an option to buy. they have tied up the property.

this is a whole block at the highway intersection of the most economically robust town in sonoma county. its a developers wet dream. do you understand how amazing it is that the barlow guy got financing to build retail and office space across the road? if cvs does let go and stay where they are, the pellinis will be able to sell their land for more $

and conrad a lot of your questions have already been answered in detail on wacco threads. you want me to look them up for you?

A few thoughts:

1. Our City can only regulate types of businesses to the extend allowed by the City's Municipal Code. Going beyond the powers described in the code amounts to tyranny. That said, I agree that the community of consumers may have as much power in this as the City does.

2. I disagree with a previous comment that this isn't about design. To me, it's PURELY about design. Any development downtown has to encourage interaction between the sidewalk and the business, not between a parking lot the the business. Nothing els is acceptable.

3. I also agree with Conrad's comment about no other development being forwarded. We can dream all we want, but we're wasting time if no one can back it up with a plan and financing.

4. While I agree with Conrad's comment about the property being an eyesore, let's face it, the Pellini's have not been the best caretakers of the property ... they haven't painted, updated or maintained the property for decades. The way it looks today is nothing new and in no way motivates me to look favorably on a development proposal that is not appropriately designed for our downtown. New is not necessarily good ... or even better than what we have.

Moving on, the new proposal really isn't new and does not address my main issues. It is still totally rooted in suburban, auto-centric thinking. The interaction between the business and the public is still not on the sidewalk, the building still turns it's back on the most important corner in town and the mid-block driveway still exists. Those are my main problems with the site design and they remain unresolved. Cutesy up the buildings 'till the cows come home, but bad site design is still the deal breaker for me.

Ted