scamperwillow
04-28-2012, 03:20 PM
There's a new meeting at DRB May 16 correct? Time and place?
View Full Version : CVS/Chase development proposal
Helen Shane
05-15-2012, 01:09 AM
Reminder
DRB Meeting
Wednesday, May 16
Sebastopol Veterans Aud.
4 pm - Dining Room
The CVS/Chase Mall is back along with its 2000 daily additional downtown automobile trips.
Please come to the May 16 Design Review Board meeting to have your opinion heard.
Their first plan was rejected by both the Design Review Board and the City Council. Now the great mall of CVS/ Chase is back.
After some tinkering, this revision is still an auto-centric mall, with two drive-throughs, 210 feet of a 26-foot high CVS building with no entrance on either street for pedestrians, and a driveway in the middle of the project, totally out of place for Sebastopol’s downtown and the only plus will be worse traffic congestion than there is now.
Come to hear the developer’s latest presentation.
Sebastopol deserves better than this!
The documents below have been submitted to the DRB by the developer and will be the subject of the meeting.
DRB Meeting
Wednesday, May 16
Sebastopol Veterans Aud.
4 pm - Dining Room
The CVS/Chase Mall is back along with its 2000 daily additional downtown automobile trips.
Please come to the May 16 Design Review Board meeting to have your opinion heard.
Their first plan was rejected by both the Design Review Board and the City Council. Now the great mall of CVS/ Chase is back.
After some tinkering, this revision is still an auto-centric mall, with two drive-throughs, 210 feet of a 26-foot high CVS building with no entrance on either street for pedestrians, and a driveway in the middle of the project, totally out of place for Sebastopol’s downtown and the only plus will be worse traffic congestion than there is now.
Come to hear the developer’s latest presentation.
Sebastopol deserves better than this!
The documents below have been submitted to the DRB by the developer and will be the subject of the meeting.
Big Bob
05-16-2012, 10:32 AM
The new design seems significantly changed, and I like the retro look of the steel awnings and brick facade. Big improvement over other CVS stores I have seen. Of course that's my opinion, and everyone has a right to have an opinion, right?
In my opinion, Helen Shane is exaggerating her objections to the buildings because I believe Helen simply does not seem to like most private projects that have ever been proposed in Sebastopol. There is no 210 foot wall anywhere on the plan as she suggests, yet our existing Main Street is basically a continuous wall on both sides of the street, higher than the proposed new buildings!
The one proposed driveway on Petaluma Ave is very small at 20'. Helen complains of no entrance from the sidewalks, but the proposed store entrance is basically on Petaluma Ave, and part of the parking lot at the same time, which makes sense because there currently is relatively little foot traffic at the street corner. (I wonder why Helen cares where the door is, since it seems she hates CVS and is never going to go there?)
How about some POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS Helen?
What new business have you helped bring to our town Helen?
We seldom have a chance to have this much private money (not public funds) being spent to make improvements in our town. Lets all work WITH these folks to create something positive, particularly since they have shown a willingness to do so.
I for one, am sick and tired of your negativity and obstructionism Helen!
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Bob Hirsch
Resident and local business owner since 1982
In my opinion, Helen Shane is exaggerating her objections to the buildings because I believe Helen simply does not seem to like most private projects that have ever been proposed in Sebastopol. There is no 210 foot wall anywhere on the plan as she suggests, yet our existing Main Street is basically a continuous wall on both sides of the street, higher than the proposed new buildings!
The one proposed driveway on Petaluma Ave is very small at 20'. Helen complains of no entrance from the sidewalks, but the proposed store entrance is basically on Petaluma Ave, and part of the parking lot at the same time, which makes sense because there currently is relatively little foot traffic at the street corner. (I wonder why Helen cares where the door is, since it seems she hates CVS and is never going to go there?)
How about some POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS Helen?
What new business have you helped bring to our town Helen?
We seldom have a chance to have this much private money (not public funds) being spent to make improvements in our town. Lets all work WITH these folks to create something positive, particularly since they have shown a willingness to do so.
I for one, am sick and tired of your negativity and obstructionism Helen!
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Bob Hirsch
Resident and local business owner since 1982
Attic
05-17-2012, 12:00 AM
Helen has every right to express her opinion and CVS doesn't fit our community. I bet Bob would be in favor of a Walmart or Hydraulic Fracturing operation here in Sebastopol if there was money in it for him. So shut the hell up Bob. :thumbsup:
The new design seems significantly changed, and I like the retro look of the steel awnings and brick facade. Big improvement over other CVS stores I have seen. Of course that's my opinion, and everyone has a right to have an opinion, right?
In my opinion, Helen Shane is exaggerating her objections to the buildings because I believe Helen simply does not seem to like most private projects that have ever been proposed in Sebastopol. There is no 210 foot wall anywhere on the plan as she suggests, yet our existing Main Street is basically a continuous wall on both sides of the street, higher than the proposed new buildings!
The one proposed driveway on Petaluma Ave is very small at 20'. Helen complains of no entrance from the sidewalks, but the proposed store entrance is basically on Petaluma Ave, and part of the parking lot at the same time, which makes sense because there currently is relatively little foot traffic at the street corner. (I wonder why Helen cares where the door is, since it seems she hates CVS and is never going to go there?)
How about some POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS Helen?
What new business have you helped bring to our town Helen?
We seldom have a chance to have this much private money (not public funds) being spent to make improvements in our town. Lets all work WITH these folks to create something positive, particularly since they have shown a willingness to do so.
I for one, am sick and tired of your negativity and obstructionism Helen!
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Bob Hirsch
Resident and local business owner since 1982
The new design seems significantly changed, and I like the retro look of the steel awnings and brick facade. Big improvement over other CVS stores I have seen. Of course that's my opinion, and everyone has a right to have an opinion, right?
In my opinion, Helen Shane is exaggerating her objections to the buildings because I believe Helen simply does not seem to like most private projects that have ever been proposed in Sebastopol. There is no 210 foot wall anywhere on the plan as she suggests, yet our existing Main Street is basically a continuous wall on both sides of the street, higher than the proposed new buildings!
The one proposed driveway on Petaluma Ave is very small at 20'. Helen complains of no entrance from the sidewalks, but the proposed store entrance is basically on Petaluma Ave, and part of the parking lot at the same time, which makes sense because there currently is relatively little foot traffic at the street corner. (I wonder why Helen cares where the door is, since it seems she hates CVS and is never going to go there?)
How about some POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS Helen?
What new business have you helped bring to our town Helen?
We seldom have a chance to have this much private money (not public funds) being spent to make improvements in our town. Lets all work WITH these folks to create something positive, particularly since they have shown a willingness to do so.
I for one, am sick and tired of your negativity and obstructionism Helen!
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Bob Hirsch
Resident and local business owner since 1982
Big Bob
05-17-2012, 12:46 AM
Oh, here we go "Attic", another lurker who goes by a fake name, has no information in their profile, no photo, no sex, no location, NOTHING IN "ATTIC's" PROFILE AT ALL: probably will not identify his/her/itself, swears at me online, makes accusations without knowing me, and assumes he/she/it knows what I am thinking.
"Attic" has the right to an opinion.
Helen has a right to her opinion.
For some reason because I have a different opinion than "Attic" I am not allowed to express my opinion and I have to "shut the hell up"?
I ask someone to be positive, not negative, and I have to "shut the hell up"?
COME OUT "Attic", you coward.
You want to attack me personally because my opinion differs from yours, then show yourself, you coward!
You sure do not belong on a "Concious Community" bulletin board.
Your personal attack makes me want to say something that would be in really poor taste, but I won't play your game.
Helen has every right to express her opinion and CVS doesn't fit our community. I bet Bob would be in favor of a Walmart or Hydraulic Fracturing operation here in Sebastopol if there was money in it for him. So shut the hell up Bob. :thumbsup:
"Attic" has the right to an opinion.
Helen has a right to her opinion.
For some reason because I have a different opinion than "Attic" I am not allowed to express my opinion and I have to "shut the hell up"?
I ask someone to be positive, not negative, and I have to "shut the hell up"?
COME OUT "Attic", you coward.
You want to attack me personally because my opinion differs from yours, then show yourself, you coward!
You sure do not belong on a "Concious Community" bulletin board.
Your personal attack makes me want to say something that would be in really poor taste, but I won't play your game.
Helen has every right to express her opinion and CVS doesn't fit our community. I bet Bob would be in favor of a Walmart or Hydraulic Fracturing operation here in Sebastopol if there was money in it for him. So shut the hell up Bob. :thumbsup:
Attic
05-17-2012, 03:50 AM
What do you expect with the attack you launched on Helen and dont even start with the "I want to know your location". Like I said you would probably love a Walmart downtown.:thumbsup:
eeeeeeow
05-17-2012, 08:53 AM
Last night I attended the DRB meeting that was held to review the revised site plan for the CVS/Chase project submitted by Armstrong Developers. What I witnessed was a disgusting display by project advocates led by Kathleen Shafer henchman Linda Johnson. When the final public speaker stood to speak, he went over the alotted 3:00 minutes that each speaker is granted. It was then that the Johnson crowd started shouting over every word from the speaker's mouth. Even after the DRB Chair granted the speaker extra time to finish, there was no respect for the chairman or the process. They continued their bully tactics until the speaker sat down. The last time I looked, we were members of a democracy. I just hope our public officials don't cave in to such ruthless behavior.
Big Bob
05-17-2012, 09:23 AM
Like I said you are a coward sniper, and you do not have any respect for an opinion other than those you agree with.
Your powers of observation seem to be lacking as well: you act as if CVS is not already in town, but they have been here for some time, and in fact own the building that they are currently located in.
You are still a coward, hiding behind a fake name, and attacking me personally and using obscenities. You are a piece of work: not the kind of person who should be a part of this community, and you should not live in our town. Go back to Los Angeles or Oakland, or wherever you came from, you snake.
What do you expect with the attack you launched on Helen and dont even start with the "I want to know your location". Like I said you would probably love a Walmart downtown.:thumbsup:
Your powers of observation seem to be lacking as well: you act as if CVS is not already in town, but they have been here for some time, and in fact own the building that they are currently located in.
You are still a coward, hiding behind a fake name, and attacking me personally and using obscenities. You are a piece of work: not the kind of person who should be a part of this community, and you should not live in our town. Go back to Los Angeles or Oakland, or wherever you came from, you snake.
What do you expect with the attack you launched on Helen and dont even start with the "I want to know your location". Like I said you would probably love a Walmart downtown.:thumbsup:
scamperwillow
05-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Were you at the meeting yesterday?
In light of the return proposal from CVS/Chase, I am urgently reminded of my desire to be proactive in keeping them and the likes out of Sebastopol. I am interested in helping to draft a resolution that would limit what kind of development is allowed in the downtown core. I was told that Cotati adopted a resolution along these lines quite a few years ago. There are many other small towns that tell chain stores where they can or cannot set up camp, and it seems that it would not be too difficult to re-word their ordinances to create our own.
Is there any movement currently happening on this front? If so, or if you would like to work together to get something in front of the City Council, please reply ASAP. peace...
In light of the return proposal from CVS/Chase, I am urgently reminded of my desire to be proactive in keeping them and the likes out of Sebastopol. I am interested in helping to draft a resolution that would limit what kind of development is allowed in the downtown core. I was told that Cotati adopted a resolution along these lines quite a few years ago. There are many other small towns that tell chain stores where they can or cannot set up camp, and it seems that it would not be too difficult to re-word their ordinances to create our own.
Is there any movement currently happening on this front? If so, or if you would like to work together to get something in front of the City Council, please reply ASAP. peace...
Attic
05-17-2012, 04:30 PM
I have been here since 1971 so get comfortable with the fact that I am indeed a part of this community. CVS should stay in its current location. Bob you own West Valley Welding correct? It is located right by the current proposed sight correct? What might you gain if CVS moves in next door? As for the words between us....I don't like the way you talked to Helen.
Like I said you are a coward sniper, and you do not have any respect for an opinion other than those you agree with.
Your powers of observation seem to be lacking as well: you act as if CVS is not already in town, but they have been here for some time, and in fact own the building that they are currently located in.
You are still a coward, hiding behind a fake name, and attacking me personally and using obscenities. You are a piece of work: not the kind of person who should be a part of this community, and you should not live in our town. Go back to Los Angeles or Oakland, or wherever you came from, you snake.
Like I said you are a coward sniper, and you do not have any respect for an opinion other than those you agree with.
Your powers of observation seem to be lacking as well: you act as if CVS is not already in town, but they have been here for some time, and in fact own the building that they are currently located in.
You are still a coward, hiding behind a fake name, and attacking me personally and using obscenities. You are a piece of work: not the kind of person who should be a part of this community, and you should not live in our town. Go back to Los Angeles or Oakland, or wherever you came from, you snake.
Barry
05-17-2012, 04:32 PM
Whoa!
For Attic (David Prouty [Edit: name corrected] as listed in his profile, which I take to be true) and Big Bob: :chillpill:
I'm tempted to take down the above posts to uphold decorum, but I'll let them stand in the interest of free expression and so I can address them.
Helen does have a right to her opinion and so does Big Bob. Characterizing her stands as "negativity and obstructionism" seems within reason to me (not that I agree), and less than an attack on her character.
While Helen appears to be "sweet little (not so) old lady" :wink: she's made of strong stuff! :strength:
I can't say what business she has helped bring to town, but I would imagine she has approved more than one business's plans during her many years of serving on city boards and commissions. I've had the honor of serving with her for a couple of years on the planning commission.
Regarding:
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Part of fighting for something is preventing things that are perceived contrary to those interests from happening so the positive thing has a opportunity of happening. Part of keeping Sebastopol special is resisting the many interests that would just assume it look like every other generic suburban strip-mall town.
She's not a developer so it's hard to make something happen there.
And that's something to consider in this discussion. Those of us who would rather not see CVS/Chase there, nor that style of suburban development, need to come to grips with the fact that something that is financially viable needs happen there. I've seem seen some dreams posted here that would be lovely, but don't have a chance of actually happening. And we do want something there, and preferably in less than a decade!
So let the discussion continue and please be respectful and tolerant of each other's point of view. :waccosun:
For Attic (David Prouty [Edit: name corrected] as listed in his profile, which I take to be true) and Big Bob: :chillpill:
I'm tempted to take down the above posts to uphold decorum, but I'll let them stand in the interest of free expression and so I can address them.
Helen does have a right to her opinion and so does Big Bob. Characterizing her stands as "negativity and obstructionism" seems within reason to me (not that I agree), and less than an attack on her character.
While Helen appears to be "sweet little (not so) old lady" :wink: she's made of strong stuff! :strength:
I can't say what business she has helped bring to town, but I would imagine she has approved more than one business's plans during her many years of serving on city boards and commissions. I've had the honor of serving with her for a couple of years on the planning commission.
Regarding:
How about helping instead of hindering the process with some POSITIVE input Helen??
Part of fighting for something is preventing things that are perceived contrary to those interests from happening so the positive thing has a opportunity of happening. Part of keeping Sebastopol special is resisting the many interests that would just assume it look like every other generic suburban strip-mall town.
She's not a developer so it's hard to make something happen there.
And that's something to consider in this discussion. Those of us who would rather not see CVS/Chase there, nor that style of suburban development, need to come to grips with the fact that something that is financially viable needs happen there. I've seem seen some dreams posted here that would be lovely, but don't have a chance of actually happening. And we do want something there, and preferably in less than a decade!
So let the discussion continue and please be respectful and tolerant of each other's point of view. :waccosun:
Attic
05-17-2012, 05:06 PM
Well telling him to Shut the Hell up may have been overboard but after reading his post and the general tone of it ... I stuck up for her like I would have stuck up for any other lady. My mood about the current state of downtown development doesn't help. That corner deserves better then a Strip Mall. It is a prominent location and needs something better. Its not always about the money.
Whoa!
For Attic (David Poultry as listed in his profile, which I take to be true) and Big Bob: :chillpill:
Whoa!
For Attic (David Poultry as listed in his profile, which I take to be true) and Big Bob: :chillpill:
Alex
05-17-2012, 09:11 PM
The new design seems significantly changed, and I like the retro look of the steel awnings and brick facade. Big improvement over other CVS stores I have seen. Of course that's my opinion, and everyone has a right to have an opinion, right?
.....
Why does it matter at all yet if it was even the most beautiful, appropriate design??
Beauty is the SECOND issue if the first is ever resolved, and I don't see how it can be.
ISSUE #1
That intersection is frequently over capacity right now with backups and waits on Bodega and Petaluma of sometimes 5 or more lights!
The ramifications of adding the massive amounts of additional traffic to that intersection is a potential nightmare for locals and visitors and a catastrophe for other nearby local business.
When the feasibility of the additional traffic is resolved, then let's discuss the beauty of the building.
.....
Why does it matter at all yet if it was even the most beautiful, appropriate design??
Beauty is the SECOND issue if the first is ever resolved, and I don't see how it can be.
ISSUE #1
That intersection is frequently over capacity right now with backups and waits on Bodega and Petaluma of sometimes 5 or more lights!
The ramifications of adding the massive amounts of additional traffic to that intersection is a potential nightmare for locals and visitors and a catastrophe for other nearby local business.
When the feasibility of the additional traffic is resolved, then let's discuss the beauty of the building.
photolite
05-20-2012, 08:27 PM
I can't help but notice that traffic is repeatedly cited as a large issue around this development. Yet the new Barlow center is of a magnitude beyond the CVS development and likely to draw significantly more traffic congestion. Even if CVS were never built the traffic amplifcation due to the Barlow (which I do not oppose) will be considerable. Why is it given a pass on this issue? IMO the political correctness hypocracy might be peeking its head out on this one aspect at least.
Why does it matter at all yet if it was even the most beautiful, appropriate design??
Beauty is the SECOND issue if the first is ever resolved, and I don't see how it can be.
ISSUE #1
That intersection is frequently over capacity right now with backups and waits on Bodega and Petaluma of sometimes 5 or more lights!
The ramifications of adding the massive amounts of additional traffic to that intersection is a potential nightmare for locals and visitors and a catastrophe for other nearby local business.
When the feasibility of the additional traffic is resolved, then let's discuss the beauty of the building.
Why does it matter at all yet if it was even the most beautiful, appropriate design??
Beauty is the SECOND issue if the first is ever resolved, and I don't see how it can be.
ISSUE #1
That intersection is frequently over capacity right now with backups and waits on Bodega and Petaluma of sometimes 5 or more lights!
The ramifications of adding the massive amounts of additional traffic to that intersection is a potential nightmare for locals and visitors and a catastrophe for other nearby local business.
When the feasibility of the additional traffic is resolved, then let's discuss the beauty of the building.
Helen Shane
05-20-2012, 09:08 PM
:idea:
The difference between The Barlow Project and the CVS/Chase is, as they say in real estate jargon: location, location, location.
CVS/Chase is at the junction of two thoroughfares that happen also to be in the very core of our downtown. CVS/Chase wants drivethrough and driveup business, both of which encourage auto traffic.
These are just a couple of differences. I leave it to those with more patience to expand on it, if they wish.
:thumbsup:
Helen Shane
The difference between The Barlow Project and the CVS/Chase is, as they say in real estate jargon: location, location, location.
CVS/Chase is at the junction of two thoroughfares that happen also to be in the very core of our downtown. CVS/Chase wants drivethrough and driveup business, both of which encourage auto traffic.
These are just a couple of differences. I leave it to those with more patience to expand on it, if they wish.
:thumbsup:
Helen Shane
photolite
05-21-2012, 09:49 AM
Actually, is not the downtown core really a block west? And the Barlow, only 1 block east, impacts Morris, Laguna, Depot AND the intersection at the Pellini property. I find it difficult to believe the CVS traffic impact is going to be much greater than the Barlow. And the Pellini building itself has never been seen as a small town architectural gem. Not promoting either one over the other here. Just trying for some perspective.
The difference between The Barlow Project and the CVS/Chase is, as they say in real estate jargon: location, location, location.
CVS/Chase is at the junction of two thoroughfares that happen also to be in the very core of our downtown. CVS/Chase wants drivethrough and driveup business, both of which encourage auto traffic.
These are just a couple of differences. I leave it to those with more patience to expand on it, if they wish.
Helen Shane
The difference between The Barlow Project and the CVS/Chase is, as they say in real estate jargon: location, location, location.
CVS/Chase is at the junction of two thoroughfares that happen also to be in the very core of our downtown. CVS/Chase wants drivethrough and driveup business, both of which encourage auto traffic.
These are just a couple of differences. I leave it to those with more patience to expand on it, if they wish.
Helen Shane
1104GT
05-24-2012, 09:36 PM
Hello Peeps
Here we go again ... CVS/Chase is back the same old poorly designed suburban strip project in this month's flavor ... brick! The next meeting is Wednesday, May 30 at 4 pm. at the Veteran’s Memorial Auditorium. If you have an opinion, now is the time for our design review board to hear it once again.
I think you all know my opinion - one more suburban project downtown will just speed up our town's downward spiral into auto centric chain store mediocrity and shrinking tax revenue. Yes pro-business people (and I am a real one), I believe this will result in a net loss of business and tax revenue in time. We need to demand more. Other towns do, why not us?
Here's a copy of my letter to the Board members:
Mr. Schurch, Mr. Douch, Mr. Beauchamp, Mr. Deedler, and Ms. Massey:
Thank you for your continued efforts in reviewing the CVS/Chase project and for conducting an organized and civil meeting. As you know, I oppose the design of this project due to the suburban nature of the site design which has not changed in any meaningful way since the last version which was rejected by your Board, the Planning Commission and the City Council.
Change Summary
1. Front door of CVS moved off the sidewalk - Now this project, with hundreds of linear feet of frontage on our two most important streets, has one insignificant entry on the sidewalk. Really? How can this possiby conform to our General Plan and Design Review Guidelines that call for our downtown to be "pedestrian friendly". This move makes it obvious that CVS is still in "suburban" mode and feels they must tether the entry to the closest parking stalls. Pedestrian and downtown activity is clearly not valuable to them.
2. Mid-block driveway changed to in-only - This driveway is unacceptable in any configuration. Downtowns rely on a City's street grid for vehicular access and should not have mid-block driveways that endanger and discourage pedestrians.
3. Parking lot reconfigured slightly shifting parking away from Petaluma - This resulted in an odd-sized useless "pedestrian" space. Since the building entries or no longer on the sidewalk, there won't be any pedestrians, so why bother? Either make it something real or get rid of it.
4. Windows changed to vision glass - While I applaud this move, I was very aware of Kevin's use of the word "scrim". In theater, this term refers to backdrops and in the signage world, "scrim" is large format digitally printed material used on billboards and supermarket ad banners. I suspect they intend to add a vision block of some sort so we still won't be actually seeing into the space. While this isn't a huge issue with me, the photo attached shows what it will really look like. We might as well know now so we're not surprised later.
5. Wood and stucco changed to brick - Building decoration changes are meaningless and a waste of energy until the site plan is fixed, but I am OK with either scheme.
Specific Direction
Many of the findings from both your board and the City Council speak to the project needing to be "downtown" in nature, but nothing has been done to change the nature of this project. I certainly can't find a reason to approve it now when it was unacceptable before. Once again the applicant has done more work on a flawed plan and then gets upset when we are still not happy with the their flawed plan. Kevin wanted 7 points of specific direction, I would give him 5 (in order of importance):
1. Eliminate the mid-block driveway. They are inappropriate in downtowns and ours has too many of them already. If they need emergency vehicle access, that can be designed in. If that's a deal breaker for them, their business model doesn't belong downtown.
2. Move the front door of CVS to the sidewalk, and/or offer a second door at the corner. If that's a deal breaker for them, their business model doesn't belong downtown.
3. Approve the building materials and basic design with the understanding that no more that 20% of the view into the space be obscured by product displays, graphics or other "scrims".
4. Develop the space between the buildings into a usable pedestrian space.
5. Entry on Sebastopol Road is to be right-in, right-out.
Again, I want to be clear that I support downtown development and have no issue with CVS or Chase, but they must propose a downtown project. If their suburban business model is the only one that will work in Sebastopol, then they by their own admission, should not do business in our downtown. We should not be expected to change our downtown to meet the needs of their suburban business model. This same battle is being fought in other places. Here's Lexington: https://www.progresslex.org/lexington-deserves-better/
I also attached some images. The titles describe my thoughts.
I'll leave you with a little story:
A lady wants a poodle, and another man, who sells goats, says he has a perfect one for her. The man shaves a goat to look like a little like a poodle and presents it to the lady the next day. She responds, "that's not a poodle, it's a goat that slightly resembles a poodle". The goat man goes away, does a better shave job on a better goat and brings it back the next day. Again, the lady says. "that's looks a little more like a poodle, but it's still obviously a goat". The man goes away again, finds his best goat and spends five days doing his best shave job so the goat looks almost exactly like a poodle. He presents his prized goat with a fanfare and great pride in his work, but the lady again responds, "I'm sorry, while that's an amazing job of making a goat look like a poodle, I still really just want a poodle". The man gets very angry, yells at the woman about how much time he spent trying to get his goat to look like a poodle and storms off. The lady eventually finds her poodle and the goat man goes back to selling goats to those who want them.
Thank you again for your valuable time and service to our community. I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting.
Ted Luthin
494 High Street
17084
CVS in Baldwin Park, proving they can have an entry onto a street
17085
Same is true here
17086
What clear glass windows will really look like full of ads and visual clutter. What a great "welcome" to our town! Imagine this on the square in Healdsburg or Sonoma. I don't think so. Their tax revenues are going up while ours decline BTW.
Here we go again ... CVS/Chase is back the same old poorly designed suburban strip project in this month's flavor ... brick! The next meeting is Wednesday, May 30 at 4 pm. at the Veteran’s Memorial Auditorium. If you have an opinion, now is the time for our design review board to hear it once again.
I think you all know my opinion - one more suburban project downtown will just speed up our town's downward spiral into auto centric chain store mediocrity and shrinking tax revenue. Yes pro-business people (and I am a real one), I believe this will result in a net loss of business and tax revenue in time. We need to demand more. Other towns do, why not us?
Here's a copy of my letter to the Board members:
Mr. Schurch, Mr. Douch, Mr. Beauchamp, Mr. Deedler, and Ms. Massey:
Thank you for your continued efforts in reviewing the CVS/Chase project and for conducting an organized and civil meeting. As you know, I oppose the design of this project due to the suburban nature of the site design which has not changed in any meaningful way since the last version which was rejected by your Board, the Planning Commission and the City Council.
Change Summary
1. Front door of CVS moved off the sidewalk - Now this project, with hundreds of linear feet of frontage on our two most important streets, has one insignificant entry on the sidewalk. Really? How can this possiby conform to our General Plan and Design Review Guidelines that call for our downtown to be "pedestrian friendly". This move makes it obvious that CVS is still in "suburban" mode and feels they must tether the entry to the closest parking stalls. Pedestrian and downtown activity is clearly not valuable to them.
2. Mid-block driveway changed to in-only - This driveway is unacceptable in any configuration. Downtowns rely on a City's street grid for vehicular access and should not have mid-block driveways that endanger and discourage pedestrians.
3. Parking lot reconfigured slightly shifting parking away from Petaluma - This resulted in an odd-sized useless "pedestrian" space. Since the building entries or no longer on the sidewalk, there won't be any pedestrians, so why bother? Either make it something real or get rid of it.
4. Windows changed to vision glass - While I applaud this move, I was very aware of Kevin's use of the word "scrim". In theater, this term refers to backdrops and in the signage world, "scrim" is large format digitally printed material used on billboards and supermarket ad banners. I suspect they intend to add a vision block of some sort so we still won't be actually seeing into the space. While this isn't a huge issue with me, the photo attached shows what it will really look like. We might as well know now so we're not surprised later.
5. Wood and stucco changed to brick - Building decoration changes are meaningless and a waste of energy until the site plan is fixed, but I am OK with either scheme.
Specific Direction
Many of the findings from both your board and the City Council speak to the project needing to be "downtown" in nature, but nothing has been done to change the nature of this project. I certainly can't find a reason to approve it now when it was unacceptable before. Once again the applicant has done more work on a flawed plan and then gets upset when we are still not happy with the their flawed plan. Kevin wanted 7 points of specific direction, I would give him 5 (in order of importance):
1. Eliminate the mid-block driveway. They are inappropriate in downtowns and ours has too many of them already. If they need emergency vehicle access, that can be designed in. If that's a deal breaker for them, their business model doesn't belong downtown.
2. Move the front door of CVS to the sidewalk, and/or offer a second door at the corner. If that's a deal breaker for them, their business model doesn't belong downtown.
3. Approve the building materials and basic design with the understanding that no more that 20% of the view into the space be obscured by product displays, graphics or other "scrims".
4. Develop the space between the buildings into a usable pedestrian space.
5. Entry on Sebastopol Road is to be right-in, right-out.
Again, I want to be clear that I support downtown development and have no issue with CVS or Chase, but they must propose a downtown project. If their suburban business model is the only one that will work in Sebastopol, then they by their own admission, should not do business in our downtown. We should not be expected to change our downtown to meet the needs of their suburban business model. This same battle is being fought in other places. Here's Lexington: https://www.progresslex.org/lexington-deserves-better/
I also attached some images. The titles describe my thoughts.
I'll leave you with a little story:
A lady wants a poodle, and another man, who sells goats, says he has a perfect one for her. The man shaves a goat to look like a little like a poodle and presents it to the lady the next day. She responds, "that's not a poodle, it's a goat that slightly resembles a poodle". The goat man goes away, does a better shave job on a better goat and brings it back the next day. Again, the lady says. "that's looks a little more like a poodle, but it's still obviously a goat". The man goes away again, finds his best goat and spends five days doing his best shave job so the goat looks almost exactly like a poodle. He presents his prized goat with a fanfare and great pride in his work, but the lady again responds, "I'm sorry, while that's an amazing job of making a goat look like a poodle, I still really just want a poodle". The man gets very angry, yells at the woman about how much time he spent trying to get his goat to look like a poodle and storms off. The lady eventually finds her poodle and the goat man goes back to selling goats to those who want them.
Thank you again for your valuable time and service to our community. I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting.
Ted Luthin
494 High Street
17084
CVS in Baldwin Park, proving they can have an entry onto a street
17085
Same is true here
17086
What clear glass windows will really look like full of ads and visual clutter. What a great "welcome" to our town! Imagine this on the square in Healdsburg or Sonoma. I don't think so. Their tax revenues are going up while ours decline BTW.
Barry
05-25-2012, 09:34 AM
Heads up folks! The CVS/Chase development returns to the DRB next Wednesday. This might be the meeting where the final decision is made! See the announcement and supporting documents here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?90239-Next-CVS-Chase-meeting-at-Design-Review-Board).
nicofrog
05-25-2012, 10:14 AM
NO ONE asked ME,but I'll still butt in and say chase the First Chase out of town
Chase is one of the crookedest and meanest of the big 1%banks...a nasty history and ugly tactics.
Nico
Chase is one of the crookedest and meanest of the big 1%banks...a nasty history and ugly tactics.
Nico
Barry
05-31-2012, 09:01 AM
Yay for DRB and all the citizens who have worked to stop this suburban development! :waccosun:
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Sebastopol design board once again rejects proposed pharmacy
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120530/articles/120539959?p=all&tc=pgall
By DEREK MOORE
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:27 p.m.
A controversial proposal to put a pharmacy and bank at a key intersection in downtown Sebastopol was again rejected Wednesday night by the city’s Design Review Board.
The board voted 4-1 to deny an application by Armstrong Development Properties to build a CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank branch at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.
Armstrong submitted its third design for the project but again ran into some of the same concerns that have dogged the plans from the beginning.
https://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3401/4fc6854ed328f.jpg
Image from Sonoma-West Times & News “There are all the characteristics of a suburban strip mall on a key block in our downtown,” said Lynn Deedler, vice chairman of the design board.
Zachary Douch, the board’s chairman, was the group’s only member to support the application.
Asked whether Armstrong plans to appeal the board’s decision to the City Council, Bill McDermott, a vice president for the Sacramento company, said, “to be determined.”
The board previously voted on Dec. 7 to reject the development’s design. The City Council upheld the board’s decision while also adopting a series of suggestions for design changes.
McDermott told the board Wednesday that Armstrong addressed the council’s findings to the “appropriate level.”
But several board members still were seeking project revisions, including the elimination of one driveway, more crosswalks and a smaller parking lot.
“To approve this project, something has to be great about it, and so far, I haven’t seen anything great about it,” said board member Peter Schurch.
The plans call for building a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank on 2.4 acres at a cost of $10 million. CVS and Chase would move to the site from buildings elsewhere in Sebastopol.
The project has been the subject of more than a dozen long and often contentious meetings. The City Council has already given the project all of the approvals it needs to go forward, except for its design.
A public hearing on the latest design was held last week. But that didn’t stop several speakers on Wednesday from stating veiled criticism of the project during what was supposed to be time for comment on items not on the board’s agenda.
Shepherd Bliss, who teaches at Sonoma State University and runs an organic farm in Sebastopol, told board members that they should consider the moral and ethical implications of any design they review.
“You would not approve a crack house, but there are some projects that are far worse than a crack house,” Bliss said. “I would ask you to consider that in approving or disapproving that.”
The board is expected to formally adopt the reasons it rejected the latest design at its meeting next week.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Sebastopol design board once again rejects proposed pharmacy
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120530/articles/120539959?p=all&tc=pgall
By DEREK MOORE
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:27 p.m.
A controversial proposal to put a pharmacy and bank at a key intersection in downtown Sebastopol was again rejected Wednesday night by the city’s Design Review Board.
The board voted 4-1 to deny an application by Armstrong Development Properties to build a CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank branch at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.
Armstrong submitted its third design for the project but again ran into some of the same concerns that have dogged the plans from the beginning.
https://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3401/4fc6854ed328f.jpg
Image from Sonoma-West Times & News “There are all the characteristics of a suburban strip mall on a key block in our downtown,” said Lynn Deedler, vice chairman of the design board.
Zachary Douch, the board’s chairman, was the group’s only member to support the application.
Asked whether Armstrong plans to appeal the board’s decision to the City Council, Bill McDermott, a vice president for the Sacramento company, said, “to be determined.”
The board previously voted on Dec. 7 to reject the development’s design. The City Council upheld the board’s decision while also adopting a series of suggestions for design changes.
McDermott told the board Wednesday that Armstrong addressed the council’s findings to the “appropriate level.”
But several board members still were seeking project revisions, including the elimination of one driveway, more crosswalks and a smaller parking lot.
“To approve this project, something has to be great about it, and so far, I haven’t seen anything great about it,” said board member Peter Schurch.
The plans call for building a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank on 2.4 acres at a cost of $10 million. CVS and Chase would move to the site from buildings elsewhere in Sebastopol.
The project has been the subject of more than a dozen long and often contentious meetings. The City Council has already given the project all of the approvals it needs to go forward, except for its design.
A public hearing on the latest design was held last week. But that didn’t stop several speakers on Wednesday from stating veiled criticism of the project during what was supposed to be time for comment on items not on the board’s agenda.
Shepherd Bliss, who teaches at Sonoma State University and runs an organic farm in Sebastopol, told board members that they should consider the moral and ethical implications of any design they review.
“You would not approve a crack house, but there are some projects that are far worse than a crack house,” Bliss said. “I would ask you to consider that in approving or disapproving that.”
The board is expected to formally adopt the reasons it rejected the latest design at its meeting next week.
b.w. rose
05-31-2012, 04:24 PM
Ya know, I have been of a split mind about this project for some time.
Philosophically, I actually agree with the project because it would place a public-good service in the center of town, it would remove an eyesore, it would merely replace one inside-the-city-limits CVS location with another and the diehard opposition would be against it even if the proposal was for a village of yurt huts.
However, practically, I think it is a stupid idea and can't possibly result in more business for CVS.
The current location has more than adequate parking, it is on a site convenient to at least 80 percent of Sebastopol area residents. If it moves to the Chevy building site, it goes to a high vehicle traffic area that most people avoid if at all possible; it doesn't matter how many entrances it will have, they will still be clogged. The only residents that would find it convenient are those in the trailer park and those in in the neighborhood between Petaluma Avenue and the Laguna.
Personally, we have prescriptions at CVS and I would move them to Rite Aid or Safeway because it would be so much more hassle getting in and out of the Chevy building site. I would never go to the proposed site, even though I can just about walk there.
All of which makes me suspicious about the intent of CVS. I question whether the intent is merely to purchase the site and then sell it for some purpose over which the DRB would have less control, having been exhausted from dealing with the earlier CVS proposals.
So, yeah, I think it is an ill-conceived idea that will wind up losing CVS customers.
Bleys
Philosophically, I actually agree with the project because it would place a public-good service in the center of town, it would remove an eyesore, it would merely replace one inside-the-city-limits CVS location with another and the diehard opposition would be against it even if the proposal was for a village of yurt huts.
However, practically, I think it is a stupid idea and can't possibly result in more business for CVS.
The current location has more than adequate parking, it is on a site convenient to at least 80 percent of Sebastopol area residents. If it moves to the Chevy building site, it goes to a high vehicle traffic area that most people avoid if at all possible; it doesn't matter how many entrances it will have, they will still be clogged. The only residents that would find it convenient are those in the trailer park and those in in the neighborhood between Petaluma Avenue and the Laguna.
Personally, we have prescriptions at CVS and I would move them to Rite Aid or Safeway because it would be so much more hassle getting in and out of the Chevy building site. I would never go to the proposed site, even though I can just about walk there.
All of which makes me suspicious about the intent of CVS. I question whether the intent is merely to purchase the site and then sell it for some purpose over which the DRB would have less control, having been exhausted from dealing with the earlier CVS proposals.
So, yeah, I think it is an ill-conceived idea that will wind up losing CVS customers.
Bleys
Attic
05-31-2012, 08:00 PM
I am the diehard opposition and would not be against a village of yurt huts. :thumbsup: CVS is owned by Chase convicted numerous times of predatory banking practices? Would you let that bank move downtown? Or would you insist that they stay on the outskirts of town? As long as the yurt huts are not owned by a predatory bank that's ok by me.
Ya know, I have been of a split mind about this project for some time.
Philosophically, I actually agree with the project because it would place a public-good service in the center of town, it would remove an eyesore, it would merely replace one inside-the-city-limits CVS location with another and the diehard opposition would be against it even if the proposal was for a village of yurt huts.
However, ...
Ya know, I have been of a split mind about this project for some time.
Philosophically, I actually agree with the project because it would place a public-good service in the center of town, it would remove an eyesore, it would merely replace one inside-the-city-limits CVS location with another and the diehard opposition would be against it even if the proposal was for a village of yurt huts.
However, ...
eeeeeeow
05-31-2012, 08:45 PM
CVS is a predator corporation.
When I was in Gainesville, FL last fall, I was shown 6 different CVS stores that were built directly across from Walgreens stores all within th elast five years. I'm not sticking up for Walgreens, but that the CVS approach; shut 'em down and take the business via cheap products.
Look at CVS in Sebastopol: They desperately want this corner at the end of a one-way street flowing directly from the emergency room of Palm Drive Hospital.
They are vying for a corner that would essentially cut of 3 approaches to Rite-Aid. Shut 'em down.
It is ill-concieved, yes. But there are factions in the city council who have politicized business groups within the community to stand behind CVS.
What will CVS contribute to the community that it doesn't already contribute from its current site other than shutting other businesses down?
By the way, I have asked CVS for donations to our school auction on three occasions and have been turned away every time. So don't tell me they are good neighbors with the community in mind as the representatives from Armstrong Developement have stated.
It's all a load of crap that will destroy downtown and open the door for more of the same. Write your city council, folks. It's going there next.
When I was in Gainesville, FL last fall, I was shown 6 different CVS stores that were built directly across from Walgreens stores all within th elast five years. I'm not sticking up for Walgreens, but that the CVS approach; shut 'em down and take the business via cheap products.
Look at CVS in Sebastopol: They desperately want this corner at the end of a one-way street flowing directly from the emergency room of Palm Drive Hospital.
They are vying for a corner that would essentially cut of 3 approaches to Rite-Aid. Shut 'em down.
It is ill-concieved, yes. But there are factions in the city council who have politicized business groups within the community to stand behind CVS.
What will CVS contribute to the community that it doesn't already contribute from its current site other than shutting other businesses down?
By the way, I have asked CVS for donations to our school auction on three occasions and have been turned away every time. So don't tell me they are good neighbors with the community in mind as the representatives from Armstrong Developement have stated.
It's all a load of crap that will destroy downtown and open the door for more of the same. Write your city council, folks. It's going there next.
photolite
06-01-2012, 10:00 PM
It is an old and established custom among national franchises to open up across the street from the competing franchisors. Notice how often you'll see a Burger King in near proximity to a McDonalds. It's known as "coat tailing". These guys all do serious traffic counts and demographic research so when one of em has opened a location they've rather telegraphed to the others that prospects of success in any given location are good. It's like Coke and Pepsi. They know that someone will always go for the alternative. It's not necessarily about driving the competition out of business. It's more about there being enough to go around for everybody.
CVS is a predator corporation.
When I was in Gainesville, FL last fall, I was shown 6 different CVS stores that were built directly across from Walgreens stores all within th elast five years. I'm not sticking up for Walgreens, but that the CVS approach; shut 'em down and take the business via cheap products.
Look at CVS in Sebastopol: They desperately want this corner at the end of a one-way street flowing directly from the emergency room of Palm Drive Hospital.
They are vying for a corner that would essentially cut of 3 approaches to Rite-Aid. Shut 'em down.
It is ill-concieved, yes. But there are factions in the city council who have politicized business groups within the community to stand behind CVS.
What will CVS contribute to the community that it doesn't already contribute from its current site other than shutting other businesses down?
By the way, I have asked CVS for donations to our school auction on three occasions and have been turned away every time. So don't tell me they are good neighbors with the community in mind as the representatives from Armstrong Developement have stated.
It's all a load of crap that will destroy downtown and open the door for more of the same. Write your city council, folks. It's going there next.
CVS is a predator corporation.
When I was in Gainesville, FL last fall, I was shown 6 different CVS stores that were built directly across from Walgreens stores all within th elast five years. I'm not sticking up for Walgreens, but that the CVS approach; shut 'em down and take the business via cheap products.
Look at CVS in Sebastopol: They desperately want this corner at the end of a one-way street flowing directly from the emergency room of Palm Drive Hospital.
They are vying for a corner that would essentially cut of 3 approaches to Rite-Aid. Shut 'em down.
It is ill-concieved, yes. But there are factions in the city council who have politicized business groups within the community to stand behind CVS.
What will CVS contribute to the community that it doesn't already contribute from its current site other than shutting other businesses down?
By the way, I have asked CVS for donations to our school auction on three occasions and have been turned away every time. So don't tell me they are good neighbors with the community in mind as the representatives from Armstrong Developement have stated.
It's all a load of crap that will destroy downtown and open the door for more of the same. Write your city council, folks. It's going there next.
rossmen
06-02-2012, 10:53 PM
nice sentiment and true if you are talking fast food or antiques. drug stores are way more territorial. cvs has been sued and lost for this.
It is an old and established custom among national franchises to open up across the street from the competing franchisors. Notice how often you'll see a Burger King in near proximity to a McDonalds. It's known as "coat tailing". These guys all do serious traffic counts and demographic research so when one of em has opened a location they've rather telegraphed to the others that prospects of success in any given location are good. It's like Coke and Pepsi. They know that someone will always go for the alternative. It's not necessarily about driving the competition out of business. It's more about there being enough to go around for everybody.
It is an old and established custom among national franchises to open up across the street from the competing franchisors. Notice how often you'll see a Burger King in near proximity to a McDonalds. It's known as "coat tailing". These guys all do serious traffic counts and demographic research so when one of em has opened a location they've rather telegraphed to the others that prospects of success in any given location are good. It's like Coke and Pepsi. They know that someone will always go for the alternative. It's not necessarily about driving the competition out of business. It's more about there being enough to go around for everybody.
Webb Pierce
06-02-2012, 11:48 PM
I'm surprised that you all don't seem to understand that what McDonalds and Burger King do is react to human behavior, whereas you folks are trying to regulate human behavior.
Butterfly
06-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Yes, and most of what we say and do is fair in love and war... You've raised something you call human behavior, and regulate and change. Here's another term — status quo. Here's one: Corporate Citizen. Going deep into it with that one.
Public policy: we all help create public policy when we go to the election polls, elect officials who legislate. It gets complicated and messy. That's politics. Next: get political, stay out of it, or dabble in it; a myriad of political and social shades in between. That's freedom of speech, assembly, press and religion. That's America. And, now, a bottom line: If we don't fight for what constituted ourselves since 1789, we'll lose it. Laissez faire, that's another term. "Let It Be" — that's a song title. Cliches are nice; just incomplete. Thanks for reading this; that's called a dialogue. Hope you stick with the conversation, fellow citizen...
McDonalds, Burger King, other corporations and individuals; we and they advertise, publicize, speak, pray, read, write, vote, slander and assault; the whole gamut of legal and illegal human behavior. Corporations are persons: our U.S. Supreme Court said that. Corporations give money to political candidates of their choice; you and me, and we — individuals don't have that much money. We give less money in political campaigns. Far less. So we, the people, in order to affect human society through a government, of, by and for the people, need to join our human behavior together for a common good to affect a power of our choice(s) that large political war chests wage under the banner of corporation(s). Corporate personhood. Yes, I make the distinction. We, the people. Corporation. They are distinctly and wholly separate entities. Yes, I disagree with the U.S. Supreme Court decision. I say, a so-called corporate personhood is clothed in rotting cloth, exposing the Emperor who has no clothes. Our Founders would rise again against this thing called corporate personhood. Corporate personhood is inhuman. It greases machine politics. It, corporate personhood, renders the individual, nay, more-so, very large numbers of people, nearly impotent. Take a CEO making $200,000,000 a year in salary out of a corporation and they are a person. (that $200 mill is real, btw)
So much for the would-be power of human behavior within this framework of looking at human behavior. Look at this way: McDonalds does not care whether you eat their burger. Burger King does not care whether you eat their burger. They are kitty-corner on thousands of corners and intersections throughout our cities and nation. They don't care whether you eat the other guy's burger either. They do care that you eat burgers. They went "healthy choices" only because, we, the people collectively decided a lot of us might die eating their food.
Oh, before I forget: you read our U.S. History; you notice a time when a black person was 3/5ths of a human behavior. How much human behavior was a black man during slavery? We had a Civil War over that one. How many black human behaviors are there in prison as distinct from outside prison, in the U.S. general, voting population? Does that have anything to do with human behavior? Oh, no — please do not go there...
As you notice, I am having a huge problem with your analysis of human behavior...
I'd rather you and me, and we, sort out our differences, and, what we share in common to make society something we can abide by, live and love by.
Now, onward: we want public policy, as translated by our elected representatives, our General Plan, and we, the citizens, as we engage in simple and complicated political discussion and choices. We, in our little town of Sebastopol are faced with what to do at the Pellini "gate-way" corner to our community. And it ain't just about Pellini, me, you, McDonalds, Burger King, CVS, or Chase. Finally, it seems to me, considering all that is at stake here — the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, actually; this thing is not just about a human or corporate behavior, human or otherwise.
I'm surprised that you all don't seem to understand that what McDonalds and Burger King do is react to human behavior, whereas you folks are trying to regulate human behavior.
Public policy: we all help create public policy when we go to the election polls, elect officials who legislate. It gets complicated and messy. That's politics. Next: get political, stay out of it, or dabble in it; a myriad of political and social shades in between. That's freedom of speech, assembly, press and religion. That's America. And, now, a bottom line: If we don't fight for what constituted ourselves since 1789, we'll lose it. Laissez faire, that's another term. "Let It Be" — that's a song title. Cliches are nice; just incomplete. Thanks for reading this; that's called a dialogue. Hope you stick with the conversation, fellow citizen...
McDonalds, Burger King, other corporations and individuals; we and they advertise, publicize, speak, pray, read, write, vote, slander and assault; the whole gamut of legal and illegal human behavior. Corporations are persons: our U.S. Supreme Court said that. Corporations give money to political candidates of their choice; you and me, and we — individuals don't have that much money. We give less money in political campaigns. Far less. So we, the people, in order to affect human society through a government, of, by and for the people, need to join our human behavior together for a common good to affect a power of our choice(s) that large political war chests wage under the banner of corporation(s). Corporate personhood. Yes, I make the distinction. We, the people. Corporation. They are distinctly and wholly separate entities. Yes, I disagree with the U.S. Supreme Court decision. I say, a so-called corporate personhood is clothed in rotting cloth, exposing the Emperor who has no clothes. Our Founders would rise again against this thing called corporate personhood. Corporate personhood is inhuman. It greases machine politics. It, corporate personhood, renders the individual, nay, more-so, very large numbers of people, nearly impotent. Take a CEO making $200,000,000 a year in salary out of a corporation and they are a person. (that $200 mill is real, btw)
So much for the would-be power of human behavior within this framework of looking at human behavior. Look at this way: McDonalds does not care whether you eat their burger. Burger King does not care whether you eat their burger. They are kitty-corner on thousands of corners and intersections throughout our cities and nation. They don't care whether you eat the other guy's burger either. They do care that you eat burgers. They went "healthy choices" only because, we, the people collectively decided a lot of us might die eating their food.
Oh, before I forget: you read our U.S. History; you notice a time when a black person was 3/5ths of a human behavior. How much human behavior was a black man during slavery? We had a Civil War over that one. How many black human behaviors are there in prison as distinct from outside prison, in the U.S. general, voting population? Does that have anything to do with human behavior? Oh, no — please do not go there...
As you notice, I am having a huge problem with your analysis of human behavior...
I'd rather you and me, and we, sort out our differences, and, what we share in common to make society something we can abide by, live and love by.
Now, onward: we want public policy, as translated by our elected representatives, our General Plan, and we, the citizens, as we engage in simple and complicated political discussion and choices. We, in our little town of Sebastopol are faced with what to do at the Pellini "gate-way" corner to our community. And it ain't just about Pellini, me, you, McDonalds, Burger King, CVS, or Chase. Finally, it seems to me, considering all that is at stake here — the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, actually; this thing is not just about a human or corporate behavior, human or otherwise.
I'm surprised that you all don't seem to understand that what McDonalds and Burger King do is react to human behavior, whereas you folks are trying to regulate human behavior.
photolite
06-03-2012, 05:20 PM
You can say that again.
Yes, and most of what we say and do is fair in love and war... You've raised something you call human behavior, and regulate and change. Here's another term — status quo. Here's one: Corporate Citizen. Going deep into it with that one.
Public policy: ....
Yes, and most of what we say and do is fair in love and war... You've raised something you call human behavior, and regulate and change. Here's another term — status quo. Here's one: Corporate Citizen. Going deep into it with that one.
Public policy: ....
Sara S
06-03-2012, 06:02 PM
All I want to regulate is traffic at those intersections...
I'm surprised that you all don't seem to understand that what McDonalds and Burger King do is react to human behavior, whereas you folks are trying to regulate human behavior.
I'm surprised that you all don't seem to understand that what McDonalds and Burger King do is react to human behavior, whereas you folks are trying to regulate human behavior.
photolite
06-03-2012, 09:10 PM
The primary issues around this project are
1. Traffic
2.Design
3.The occupants themselves
1. Traffic will certainly increase but not by as much as that caused by the enormous Barlow project at the other end of the block. Until a campaign is mounted against that project with equal vigor to this I think it's time to drop traffic as a legitimate reason to stop this.
2. The developer has bent over backward to comply with community sensibilities and will ultimately design a project in compliance with community standards.
3. The actual downtown core already hosts Westamerica Bank, Bank of the West, B of A and Wells Fargo, not to mention RiteAid. This horse has already left the barn. Kinda hard to justify not letting this project proceed. Personally, I wish all these predator banks were run out of town but other than our personal disdain for their corrupt business practices they have every right to be here.
All I want to regulate is traffic at those intersections...
1. Traffic
2.Design
3.The occupants themselves
1. Traffic will certainly increase but not by as much as that caused by the enormous Barlow project at the other end of the block. Until a campaign is mounted against that project with equal vigor to this I think it's time to drop traffic as a legitimate reason to stop this.
2. The developer has bent over backward to comply with community sensibilities and will ultimately design a project in compliance with community standards.
3. The actual downtown core already hosts Westamerica Bank, Bank of the West, B of A and Wells Fargo, not to mention RiteAid. This horse has already left the barn. Kinda hard to justify not letting this project proceed. Personally, I wish all these predator banks were run out of town but other than our personal disdain for their corrupt business practices they have every right to be here.
All I want to regulate is traffic at those intersections...
1104GT
06-04-2012, 01:23 AM
Photolite, I agree with your points 1 and 3 but completely disagree with point 2. In my opinion, this developer has done almost nothing to comply with our design review guidelines and general plan vision for downtown. Their proposed design is nothing more than their typical suburban junk plunked down and shoved up to the street. They added a little lipstick and called planting areas "rain gardens" and expected us to like it.
As for traffic, we need to accept that our traffic is primarily due to two highways and get over the fact that any new local businesses, regardless of corporate ownership, will generate traffic. If we want more business downtown (I know some people don't) we should expect and welcome the activity that goes along with it.
Regarding corporate ownership, if someone has an example of a workable code restriction that we can use, please share it, because I have not seen one. The only one I am aware of is Calistoga's and I know it has caused them some problems.
As for traffic, we need to accept that our traffic is primarily due to two highways and get over the fact that any new local businesses, regardless of corporate ownership, will generate traffic. If we want more business downtown (I know some people don't) we should expect and welcome the activity that goes along with it.
Regarding corporate ownership, if someone has an example of a workable code restriction that we can use, please share it, because I have not seen one. The only one I am aware of is Calistoga's and I know it has caused them some problems.
leela8
06-04-2012, 07:34 AM
It is true the Barlow will create increased traffic and backups at that light.
It's also true that it is an entirely much less complicated intersection than the wacky
scribble at Main/Petaluma/Hwy12/McKinley. In fact, that whole area deeds a redo
in general. Try turning left from Mckinley onto Main to make a right on Bodega today,
and wonder why there aren't lots more accidents there already.
Then imagine how backed up that left turn onto 12 will be if there is a stream of drive-through traffic coming out of Pellini. There could be a whole weird logjam where things come to a standstill around that whole loop.
And the detail that keeps getting buried in this ongoing conversation is that the proposed development is for a
drive-through situation for both businesses. Traffic throughput is likely to be much higher than if it was a park & shop deal.
It's also true that it is an entirely much less complicated intersection than the wacky
scribble at Main/Petaluma/Hwy12/McKinley. In fact, that whole area deeds a redo
in general. Try turning left from Mckinley onto Main to make a right on Bodega today,
and wonder why there aren't lots more accidents there already.
Then imagine how backed up that left turn onto 12 will be if there is a stream of drive-through traffic coming out of Pellini. There could be a whole weird logjam where things come to a standstill around that whole loop.
And the detail that keeps getting buried in this ongoing conversation is that the proposed development is for a
drive-through situation for both businesses. Traffic throughput is likely to be much higher than if it was a park & shop deal.
Helen Shane
06-04-2012, 07:46 AM
Leela8 - I couldn't have said it better myself. And how about the following quote? :wink2:
“Aldridge said the mixed-use project was devised in the face of opposition from Sebastopol residents to condominiums he initially had envisioned, but said his critics were right, in the end.
"I think it turned out way better," he said.
"I think the people were right."
Aldridge, at the Barlow Project fire 5/31/12
PD 6/1/12
:thumbsup:
Come to the DRB meeting Wedesday at 4 pm at the Veterans' Aud. to add your support to the DRB's 4-1 vote to deny.
“Aldridge said the mixed-use project was devised in the face of opposition from Sebastopol residents to condominiums he initially had envisioned, but said his critics were right, in the end.
"I think it turned out way better," he said.
"I think the people were right."
Aldridge, at the Barlow Project fire 5/31/12
PD 6/1/12
:thumbsup:
Come to the DRB meeting Wedesday at 4 pm at the Veterans' Aud. to add your support to the DRB's 4-1 vote to deny.
scamperwillow
06-04-2012, 11:09 AM
And the detail that keeps getting buried in this ongoing conversation is that the proposed development is for a
drive-through situation for both businesses. Traffic throughput is likely to be much higher than if it was a park & shop deal.
Or better yet, a WALK and shop deal - which is what we really want in the center of downtown.
drive-through situation for both businesses. Traffic throughput is likely to be much higher than if it was a park & shop deal.
Or better yet, a WALK and shop deal - which is what we really want in the center of downtown.
scamperwillow
06-06-2012, 01:04 PM
The first two are great and I have seen others similar to this too - they do NOT need to build a suburban shopping mall! About the windows, I would rather see this and see real people inside than have a long solid blank wall - or fake windows.
https://i.imgur.com/dJDzr.jpg
CVS in Baldwin Park, proving they can have an entry onto a street
https://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3421/iwdwu.jpg
Same is true here
https://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3121/egpmk.jpg
What clear glass windows will really look like full of ads and visual clutter. What a great "welcome" to our town! Imagine this on the square in Healdsburg or Sonoma. I don't think so. Their tax revenues are going up while ours decline BTW.
https://i.imgur.com/dJDzr.jpg
CVS in Baldwin Park, proving they can have an entry onto a street
https://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3421/iwdwu.jpg
Same is true here
https://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3121/egpmk.jpg
What clear glass windows will really look like full of ads and visual clutter. What a great "welcome" to our town! Imagine this on the square in Healdsburg or Sonoma. I don't think so. Their tax revenues are going up while ours decline BTW.
Barry
06-06-2012, 04:37 PM
About the windows, I would rather see this and see real people inside than have a long solid blank wall - or fake windows.
Regarding windows, you probably won't see people because they will be quickly plastered with signs.
Regarding windows, you probably won't see people because they will be quickly plastered with signs.
scamperwillow
06-06-2012, 08:48 PM
not great but still better than a blank wall
Regarding windows, you probably won't see people because they will be quickly plastered with signs.
Regarding windows, you probably won't see people because they will be quickly plastered with signs.
Barry
06-14-2012, 12:27 PM
Appeal to City Council is scheduled for July 17th!
This may be the last time to speak out against this project!
Be there!
https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8107/201206081330.png
CVS developer appeals design rejection to Sebastopol City Council
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120614/articles/120619765?p=all&tc=pgall
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
A Sacramento developer is asking the Sebastopol City Council to overturn the city design review board's rejection of a design for the controversial CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank.
It was the third design that Armstrong Development Inc. had submitted for the proposed project, a pharmacy and bank branch at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.
Sebastopol Planning Director Kenyon Webster said the appeal was not surprising. The project has been the subject of more than a dozen sometimes contentious meetings.
“They want to build the project and the board denied it, they are hoping the council will view the situation differently,” Webster said.
Armstrong officials did not return calls seeking comment Thursday, but have previously said that they believe they have met all the city guidelines.
The proposal has received the major approvals needed to move forward, except for the design. The current design proposal, the third, was denied by the city design review board on May 30.
The board in its findings said that the design is out of character with the downtown Sebastopol core area, and is a suburban-style plan that devotes too much area to parking, drive-throughs and driveways.
Specifically, the board wanted Armstrong to eliminate a Petaluma Avenue driveway and parking spaces, add storefronts, enlarge a plaza, redesign Abbott Avenue and add a crosswalk and relocate others.
The board denied the Armstrong design proposal on a 4-1 vote, with board Chairman Zachary Douch voting for it.
The developer wants to build a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank branch on 2.4 acres at a cost of $10 million. CVS and Chase would move to the site from locations elsewhere in Sebastopol.
The City Council has already ruled in favor of one appeal filed by Armstrong Development, finding that its impact report did not need a separate traffic study. The council, however, has also turned down an appeal by Armstrong challenging the Design Review Board's rejection of a previous design.
The City Council on Tuesday will consider setting a public hearing on the appeal for July 17 and call a special council meeting on July 19 to make a decision.
You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].
This may be the last time to speak out against this project!
Be there!
https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8107/201206081330.png
CVS developer appeals design rejection to Sebastopol City Council
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120614/articles/120619765?p=all&tc=pgall
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Thursday, June 14, 2012 at 11:20 a.m.
A Sacramento developer is asking the Sebastopol City Council to overturn the city design review board's rejection of a design for the controversial CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank.
It was the third design that Armstrong Development Inc. had submitted for the proposed project, a pharmacy and bank branch at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership.
Sebastopol Planning Director Kenyon Webster said the appeal was not surprising. The project has been the subject of more than a dozen sometimes contentious meetings.
“They want to build the project and the board denied it, they are hoping the council will view the situation differently,” Webster said.
Armstrong officials did not return calls seeking comment Thursday, but have previously said that they believe they have met all the city guidelines.
The proposal has received the major approvals needed to move forward, except for the design. The current design proposal, the third, was denied by the city design review board on May 30.
The board in its findings said that the design is out of character with the downtown Sebastopol core area, and is a suburban-style plan that devotes too much area to parking, drive-throughs and driveways.
Specifically, the board wanted Armstrong to eliminate a Petaluma Avenue driveway and parking spaces, add storefronts, enlarge a plaza, redesign Abbott Avenue and add a crosswalk and relocate others.
The board denied the Armstrong design proposal on a 4-1 vote, with board Chairman Zachary Douch voting for it.
The developer wants to build a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank branch on 2.4 acres at a cost of $10 million. CVS and Chase would move to the site from locations elsewhere in Sebastopol.
The City Council has already ruled in favor of one appeal filed by Armstrong Development, finding that its impact report did not need a separate traffic study. The council, however, has also turned down an appeal by Armstrong challenging the Design Review Board's rejection of a previous design.
The City Council on Tuesday will consider setting a public hearing on the appeal for July 17 and call a special council meeting on July 19 to make a decision.
You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].
Barry
07-02-2012, 10:48 AM
Anybody have any comments about these "charges"? - Barry
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8459/logosonomawest.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/editorials/a-broken-system---by-nancy-aita/article_732af264-c094-11e1-b90b-0019bb2963f4.html
Is our Design Review process broken or is the Design Review Board (DRB) just not willing to follow the rules?
• Complete disregard of City Council instructions.
The City Council’s review of the CVS/Chase design on February 21 produced a list of findings to justify their decision to send the review process back to the DRB and to provide direction to the developer and the DRB. Some of these findings were specific and offered design revisions that the Council indicated would be acceptable. City staff gave the DRB specific instructions that if the developer included these proposed revisions in their new design, then this would satisfy the City’s requirements and the DRB would not have to reconsider that item. The DRB ignored this direction and instead continued to cite all the things they considered bad, including the ones that the Council agreed would be acceptable. For example, the DRB members indicated they could not approve the site plan with an in-only driveway entrance from Petaluma Avenue, even though the Council indicated it would be an acceptable alternative. The Council also had indicated that an Abbott Avenue design would be acceptable if the city engineer so approved. The developer complied by revising the design to meet city standards and received approval from the city engineer, but the DRB chairman tried to get the DRB to review the City Council findings, one DRB member asked if anyone had a copy of the findings that he could use, an indication of the lack of importance he placed on the council’s desires.
• Individual DRB members’ desires vs. board consensus:
The DRB’s recent review of the CVS/Chase project followed the format used in past meetings. Each DRB member was asked for his/her comments, but a clear consensus was never asked for or achieved in past meetings. Over 50 items were discussed without reaching a majority agreement on any item. Most of the comments/concerns were general in nature rather than specific directions on which the developer could act. Sometimes two board members contradicted each other. For example, one board member wants the Chase building to face the pedestrian plaza, and another says he thinks it should face Petaluma Avenue. Without discussion and vote on a consensus view, what is the developer to do? Most comments were general comments without specifics. For example: “the pedestrian plaza is too small,” leaving the developer to wonder will increasing its size 3-feet be enough or should it be doubled? “The project needs to be great,” was another comment. What exactly does that mean? “The street is too narrow.” Again, should it be increased 5-feet or 10-feet? It was left up to city staff to guess which comments represented the DRB’s requests and produce a list of findings. One member was bold enough to say he wasn’t prepared to discuss specifics but could provide some at another meeting. What the heck has he been doing all these weeks?
Instead of treating this project like other projects that have recently come before the DRB, it seems the DRB has decided to deny this project simply because it doesn’t want CVS/Chase to build on that property. I am sure this is OK with some members of our community, but it is not legal. Using the design review process to pick and choose the businesses that are appropriate for Sebastopol by simply saying the design doesn’t fit is a power the DRB should not have. Both the people and the process need to change.
Nancy Aita is a Sebastopol resident.
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8459/logosonomawest.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/editorials/a-broken-system---by-nancy-aita/article_732af264-c094-11e1-b90b-0019bb2963f4.html
Is our Design Review process broken or is the Design Review Board (DRB) just not willing to follow the rules?
• Complete disregard of City Council instructions.
The City Council’s review of the CVS/Chase design on February 21 produced a list of findings to justify their decision to send the review process back to the DRB and to provide direction to the developer and the DRB. Some of these findings were specific and offered design revisions that the Council indicated would be acceptable. City staff gave the DRB specific instructions that if the developer included these proposed revisions in their new design, then this would satisfy the City’s requirements and the DRB would not have to reconsider that item. The DRB ignored this direction and instead continued to cite all the things they considered bad, including the ones that the Council agreed would be acceptable. For example, the DRB members indicated they could not approve the site plan with an in-only driveway entrance from Petaluma Avenue, even though the Council indicated it would be an acceptable alternative. The Council also had indicated that an Abbott Avenue design would be acceptable if the city engineer so approved. The developer complied by revising the design to meet city standards and received approval from the city engineer, but the DRB chairman tried to get the DRB to review the City Council findings, one DRB member asked if anyone had a copy of the findings that he could use, an indication of the lack of importance he placed on the council’s desires.
• Individual DRB members’ desires vs. board consensus:
The DRB’s recent review of the CVS/Chase project followed the format used in past meetings. Each DRB member was asked for his/her comments, but a clear consensus was never asked for or achieved in past meetings. Over 50 items were discussed without reaching a majority agreement on any item. Most of the comments/concerns were general in nature rather than specific directions on which the developer could act. Sometimes two board members contradicted each other. For example, one board member wants the Chase building to face the pedestrian plaza, and another says he thinks it should face Petaluma Avenue. Without discussion and vote on a consensus view, what is the developer to do? Most comments were general comments without specifics. For example: “the pedestrian plaza is too small,” leaving the developer to wonder will increasing its size 3-feet be enough or should it be doubled? “The project needs to be great,” was another comment. What exactly does that mean? “The street is too narrow.” Again, should it be increased 5-feet or 10-feet? It was left up to city staff to guess which comments represented the DRB’s requests and produce a list of findings. One member was bold enough to say he wasn’t prepared to discuss specifics but could provide some at another meeting. What the heck has he been doing all these weeks?
Instead of treating this project like other projects that have recently come before the DRB, it seems the DRB has decided to deny this project simply because it doesn’t want CVS/Chase to build on that property. I am sure this is OK with some members of our community, but it is not legal. Using the design review process to pick and choose the businesses that are appropriate for Sebastopol by simply saying the design doesn’t fit is a power the DRB should not have. Both the people and the process need to change.
Nancy Aita is a Sebastopol resident.
oliviathunderkitty
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Personally, I am pleased that the DRB is looking out for Sebastopol's best interests and also pleased that they are not functioning as a simple rubber-stamp for other's opinions. As far as these accusations go, I'd like to hear a response from a spokesperson for the DRB about how the process actually works. I think it is quite easy for people to make accusations about how things may work but our perceptions, conclusions and opinions are not always on the money.
eeeeeeow
07-02-2012, 12:10 PM
I've attended every DRB meeting on this subject for the past year. Not until the last meeting did I feel the DRB was actually basing their opinion on the General Plan. I'm still surprised they didn't go further in stating their reasons for denial. All I've heard from proponents of this issue is that "it fits the general plan" when it actually doesn't on approximately 22 different counts by my interpretation. I've read this thing over and over and cannot believe the project has gotten this far.
Pragmatically, if we are to support the locall businesses in this community; if we are to populate the new Barlow project as well as downtown commerce with patrons, as well as local wineries who make some of the best wines in the world, then we need to re-think and get something in there (a hotel where people like their bags carried, for instance) that promotes the right kind of traffic, instead of the traffic our town cannot support. Do you folks know that Wine Spectator magazine picked three Sebastopol wineries in the top 10 in its annual Best 100 Wines in the World issue for 2011 (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111117/ARTICLES/111171005)?!?!?! THAT'S what would bring people here. Not drive-through drug windows. It is heartbreaking to think of this opportunity squandered. Because CVS will do irrepairable harm to the growth of Sebastopol. Where is that Business Outreach committee we're suppose to have in City Hall?
Pragmatically, if we are to support the locall businesses in this community; if we are to populate the new Barlow project as well as downtown commerce with patrons, as well as local wineries who make some of the best wines in the world, then we need to re-think and get something in there (a hotel where people like their bags carried, for instance) that promotes the right kind of traffic, instead of the traffic our town cannot support. Do you folks know that Wine Spectator magazine picked three Sebastopol wineries in the top 10 in its annual Best 100 Wines in the World issue for 2011 (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111117/ARTICLES/111171005)?!?!?! THAT'S what would bring people here. Not drive-through drug windows. It is heartbreaking to think of this opportunity squandered. Because CVS will do irrepairable harm to the growth of Sebastopol. Where is that Business Outreach committee we're suppose to have in City Hall?
Barton Stone
07-02-2012, 02:09 PM
Who wants it?
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
Peacetown Jonathan
07-02-2012, 04:53 PM
CVS & The battle for a ‘green’ Sebastopol
Published June 27, 2012 SONOMAWEST
by Jonathan Greenberg
The ongoing struggle to rein in a downtown land grab by CVS and Chase, two highly controversial, multi-billion dollar corporations, has become the front line in the battle for a green Sebastopol.
As we celebrate July 4 in our wonderfully independent-minded community, it is a good opportunity to consider the proper role of local government when it comes to serving its citizens. Should the right to sell ones property for millions of dollars to any willing buyer trump the right of our citizens to control the planning and traffic of the most prominent crossroad in our city?
In a recent commentary in Sonoma West Times & News (“Is the sky falling?,” May 24), Kathy Austin, a candidate for City Council in November’s election, laid down the pro-big business ethos that she believes should guide local government. She argued that Sebastopol’s duly authorized Design Review Board, as well as our current City Council, did not have the authority to block the project. She warned, “Because of the trouble this applicant has encountered, our reputation in the area for being business and development unfriendly is increasing from its already bad reputation.”
As a Sebastopol citizen who, like most of my neighbors, wants to sustain a green, accessible, liveable, Go Local Sebastopol, I ask, “whose business is candidate Austin talking about?”
I agree with outgoing Mayor Guy Wilson’s assessment that in Sebastopol, “green is our brand.” Young families continue to flock here for our green lifestyle and progressive schools.
Sebastopol maintains some of the highest average home values in Sonoma County, and local business thrives because thriving, community-minded people choose to live here.
When it blocked the CVS and Chase congestion-causing drive-through window entrances, our DRB stood up for the many small businesses, including consultants, therapists, tutors, etc., who work from downtown and home offices.
Everybody knows this is the worst congestion choke point in the area. Adding 2,000 car trips a day will make a bad traffic situation worse, compelling clients and customers to bypass our city.
In addition, the wasted hours of smog-causing idling time at this traffic choke point will burden all of us for decades to come.
Our DRB found that the CVS plan, with its drive through entrances and lack of streetscape, is fundamentally a suburban mall-like design, not appropriate for this prominent location in the heart of our town. If opposing CVS means that our city develops what candidate Austin calls a “bad reputation” for the Wal-Marts of the world, this is fine with Sebastopol.
In mid-July, City Council will vote on whether to overturn the DRB’s thoroughly considered decision. We know that Councilmember Kathleen Shaffer, who is also for running for re-election as a pro-big business candidate, had promised to work “under the radar” to advocate for helping the Pellini family sell its property for more than $2 million to the CVS/Chase Developer. She will be a sure vote to overturn the DRB and Councilmember Patrick Slayter will probably vote with her, as he has in the past, on anti-environmentalist issues.
Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Austin seem to believe that government exists to facilitate the profits of multi-billion dollar companies, even if it harms the livability of our unique city and viability of small business.
Sebastopol is fortunate that we currently seem to have a 3 to 2 “green” City Council that reflects the shared desire of a majority of our citizens for a green, liveable city that places our ecology over the profits of powerful private interests.
I am concerned that this narrow majority may “swing” to a “pro-business” majority, headed by Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Austin, this November. Rare is the West Coast politician who calls herself an anti-environmentalist. We can expect candidates Austin and Shaffer, leaders of the powerful pro-CVS faction in our community, to be no different.
Instead, they cloak their opposition to community empowerment over our fragile small town environment with their concern for what is “good for business.”
Come November, Sebastopol voters should ask, “whose business?”
The CVS issue has become the front line in a battle for the future of a green Sebastopol.
Jonathan Greenberg is a Sebastopol resident.
Published June 27, 2012 SONOMAWEST
by Jonathan Greenberg
The ongoing struggle to rein in a downtown land grab by CVS and Chase, two highly controversial, multi-billion dollar corporations, has become the front line in the battle for a green Sebastopol.
As we celebrate July 4 in our wonderfully independent-minded community, it is a good opportunity to consider the proper role of local government when it comes to serving its citizens. Should the right to sell ones property for millions of dollars to any willing buyer trump the right of our citizens to control the planning and traffic of the most prominent crossroad in our city?
In a recent commentary in Sonoma West Times & News (“Is the sky falling?,” May 24), Kathy Austin, a candidate for City Council in November’s election, laid down the pro-big business ethos that she believes should guide local government. She argued that Sebastopol’s duly authorized Design Review Board, as well as our current City Council, did not have the authority to block the project. She warned, “Because of the trouble this applicant has encountered, our reputation in the area for being business and development unfriendly is increasing from its already bad reputation.”
As a Sebastopol citizen who, like most of my neighbors, wants to sustain a green, accessible, liveable, Go Local Sebastopol, I ask, “whose business is candidate Austin talking about?”
I agree with outgoing Mayor Guy Wilson’s assessment that in Sebastopol, “green is our brand.” Young families continue to flock here for our green lifestyle and progressive schools.
Sebastopol maintains some of the highest average home values in Sonoma County, and local business thrives because thriving, community-minded people choose to live here.
When it blocked the CVS and Chase congestion-causing drive-through window entrances, our DRB stood up for the many small businesses, including consultants, therapists, tutors, etc., who work from downtown and home offices.
Everybody knows this is the worst congestion choke point in the area. Adding 2,000 car trips a day will make a bad traffic situation worse, compelling clients and customers to bypass our city.
In addition, the wasted hours of smog-causing idling time at this traffic choke point will burden all of us for decades to come.
Our DRB found that the CVS plan, with its drive through entrances and lack of streetscape, is fundamentally a suburban mall-like design, not appropriate for this prominent location in the heart of our town. If opposing CVS means that our city develops what candidate Austin calls a “bad reputation” for the Wal-Marts of the world, this is fine with Sebastopol.
In mid-July, City Council will vote on whether to overturn the DRB’s thoroughly considered decision. We know that Councilmember Kathleen Shaffer, who is also for running for re-election as a pro-big business candidate, had promised to work “under the radar” to advocate for helping the Pellini family sell its property for more than $2 million to the CVS/Chase Developer. She will be a sure vote to overturn the DRB and Councilmember Patrick Slayter will probably vote with her, as he has in the past, on anti-environmentalist issues.
Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Austin seem to believe that government exists to facilitate the profits of multi-billion dollar companies, even if it harms the livability of our unique city and viability of small business.
Sebastopol is fortunate that we currently seem to have a 3 to 2 “green” City Council that reflects the shared desire of a majority of our citizens for a green, liveable city that places our ecology over the profits of powerful private interests.
I am concerned that this narrow majority may “swing” to a “pro-business” majority, headed by Ms. Shaffer and Ms. Austin, this November. Rare is the West Coast politician who calls herself an anti-environmentalist. We can expect candidates Austin and Shaffer, leaders of the powerful pro-CVS faction in our community, to be no different.
Instead, they cloak their opposition to community empowerment over our fragile small town environment with their concern for what is “good for business.”
Come November, Sebastopol voters should ask, “whose business?”
The CVS issue has become the front line in a battle for the future of a green Sebastopol.
Jonathan Greenberg is a Sebastopol resident.
oliviathunderkitty
07-02-2012, 06:53 PM
Please forgive me if this has been addressed (I've not seen it) but has anyone spoken to the need or lack thereof of yet another national bank and another pharmacy in Sebastopol? Are there long lines at our existing pharmacies? Are local banks turning away new customers because they have reached their limit? I would assume that most Sebastopol citizens, with our commitment to local business, have their accounts at the locally owned banks in town, i.e., Redwood Credit Union and the Exchange Bank. And personally, I would love to support a locally-owned pharmacy.
The proposed CVS/Chase development will simply be another corporate eyesore to ignore and another nail in the coffin of our unique rural charm.
The proposed CVS/Chase development will simply be another corporate eyesore to ignore and another nail in the coffin of our unique rural charm.
Hollyanna
07-02-2012, 09:07 PM
Oliviathunderkitty, this is not ANOTHER national bank or pharmacy. Both businesses are currently located elsewhere in Sebastopol--CVS in the former Long's location (which will become vacant if/when the new CVS is built), and Chase bank inside the Lucky store in the same strip mall. Which, to my mind, completely negates the possible sales tax benefit to the city that is continually cited by some.
Hollyanna
07-02-2012, 09:08 PM
P.S. No need to apologize. It is nearly impossible to keep up with all the details. We need to help each other stay informed.
Please forgive me if this has been addressed (I've not seen it) but has anyone spoken to the need or lack thereof of yet another national bank and another pharmacy in Sebastopol? Are there long lines at our existing pharmacies? Are local banks turning away new customers because they have reached their limit? I would assume that most Sebastopol citizens, with our commitment to local business, have their accounts at the locally owned banks in town, i.e., Redwood Credit Union and the Exchange Bank. And personally, I would love to support a locally-owned pharmacy.
The proposed CVS/Chase development will simply be another corporate eyesore to ignore and another nail in the coffin of our unique rural charm.
Please forgive me if this has been addressed (I've not seen it) but has anyone spoken to the need or lack thereof of yet another national bank and another pharmacy in Sebastopol? Are there long lines at our existing pharmacies? Are local banks turning away new customers because they have reached their limit? I would assume that most Sebastopol citizens, with our commitment to local business, have their accounts at the locally owned banks in town, i.e., Redwood Credit Union and the Exchange Bank. And personally, I would love to support a locally-owned pharmacy.
The proposed CVS/Chase development will simply be another corporate eyesore to ignore and another nail in the coffin of our unique rural charm.
oliviathunderkitty
07-02-2012, 10:23 PM
I do understand that these businesses exist in some form now, but the bank, especially, is a major expansion--yet another free-standing national/multinational bank. We have enough. And the pharmacy is an ill-advised relocation.
Oliviathunderkitty, this is not ANOTHER national bank or pharmacy. Both businesses are currently located elsewhere in Sebastopol--CVS in the former Long's location (which will become vacant if/when the new CVS is built), and Chase bank inside the Lucky store in the same strip mall. Which, to my mind, completely negates the possible sales tax benefit to the city that is continually cited by some.
Oliviathunderkitty, this is not ANOTHER national bank or pharmacy. Both businesses are currently located elsewhere in Sebastopol--CVS in the former Long's location (which will become vacant if/when the new CVS is built), and Chase bank inside the Lucky store in the same strip mall. Which, to my mind, completely negates the possible sales tax benefit to the city that is continually cited by some.
Helen Shane
07-03-2012, 10:38 AM
At the risk of sounding crabby, this plan has been debated publicly so for so long and so often we would be repeating ourselves and others if we did anything but direct you to the Design Review Guidelines and the General Plan, available on the city website.
The duties and responsibilities of the Design Review Board are to study development projects as they are presented, use their skills, training and expertise in this field to ensure that the proposals comply with our General Plan and the Design Review Guidelines.
These documents outline the components that the DRB and the City Council must consult and honor in their decision making process.
The State of California requires every municipality to have a General Plan. The General Plan establishes long-range conservation and development policies. This General Plan was adopted in 1994, and has been amended several times since.
Its purpose is to provide a basis for judging whether specific private development proposals and public projects are in harmony with these policies and to inform citizens, developers, decision makers and other jurisdictions of the ground rules that will guide development and conservation with the Sebastopol Planning Area.
The General Plan’s policies for the Downtown were built on two previous documents: The Downtown Portfolio, 1978, and The Downtown Plan, 1990. These documents are also available on the city website. They really are worth reading. They contain illustrations of what development in the Downtown Core should look like, and what it shouldn’t.
All these plans were formulated through long hours of public meetings and discussions, where citizens, public boards and commissions discussed in open forums their vision and expectations for the future of our town.
These documents do not state that current economic conditions allow for ignoring the guidelines. And evidently it must be said at least once more that property owners have the right to sell their property, and the City has every right to circumscribe what is built on it.
Helen Shane and John Kramer
The duties and responsibilities of the Design Review Board are to study development projects as they are presented, use their skills, training and expertise in this field to ensure that the proposals comply with our General Plan and the Design Review Guidelines.
These documents outline the components that the DRB and the City Council must consult and honor in their decision making process.
The State of California requires every municipality to have a General Plan. The General Plan establishes long-range conservation and development policies. This General Plan was adopted in 1994, and has been amended several times since.
Its purpose is to provide a basis for judging whether specific private development proposals and public projects are in harmony with these policies and to inform citizens, developers, decision makers and other jurisdictions of the ground rules that will guide development and conservation with the Sebastopol Planning Area.
The General Plan’s policies for the Downtown were built on two previous documents: The Downtown Portfolio, 1978, and The Downtown Plan, 1990. These documents are also available on the city website. They really are worth reading. They contain illustrations of what development in the Downtown Core should look like, and what it shouldn’t.
All these plans were formulated through long hours of public meetings and discussions, where citizens, public boards and commissions discussed in open forums their vision and expectations for the future of our town.
These documents do not state that current economic conditions allow for ignoring the guidelines. And evidently it must be said at least once more that property owners have the right to sell their property, and the City has every right to circumscribe what is built on it.
Helen Shane and John Kramer
scamperwillow
07-03-2012, 10:43 AM
Does everyone know that the appeal is coming to the City Council on July 17 and July 19 - where they will make their decision?
scamperwillow
07-03-2012, 11:36 AM
The people that want it think it will bring jobs and money into the community, ignoring the huge environmental cost and community identity that we all love. I think it will hurt local business - especially the bookstores, liquor stores, local banks - all the things that will now have new competition in the center of town if this goes through.
Who wants it?
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
Who wants it?
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
Peacetown Jonathan
07-03-2012, 12:13 PM
Thank you Helen, for cutting to the chase. For those still wondering whether We, the People, through our duly elected and appointed representatives have the right to challenge this deal, this statement is worth repeating: (emphasis added)
These documents do not state that current economic conditions allow for ignoring the guidelines. And evidently it must be said at least once more that property owners have the right to sell their property, and the City has every right to circumscribe what is built on it.
These documents do not state that current economic conditions allow for ignoring the guidelines. And evidently it must be said at least once more that property owners have the right to sell their property, and the City has every right to circumscribe what is built on it.
Hollyanna
07-03-2012, 12:42 PM
I have also heard the following from supporters:
"Anything would be better than what is there now."
There are many things that are technically permitted that most people would agree would not be better.
"The developer is making millions of dollars worth of improvements to the surrounding area (sidewalks, etc.)."
Anyone developing that property will be required to make those improvements.
"A pharmacy with a drive-through window would be beneficial to people who are ill and need medication."
This one actually seems to have some merit, but not enough to overcome the the many other negatives. The argument could also be made that someone who is that ill should probably not be driving in the first place.
"We need a pharmacy close to the hospital."
There is already a pharmacy close to the hospital--RiteAid. If CVS relocates, they will leave the north end of town without a pharmacy and with another empty storefront in the Redwood Marketplace.
"No one else has stepped up to purchase the property."
I don't know for a fact if this is the case or not, but that brings me to...
"The property owners have the right to sell their property."
Of course they do, but that does not mean that the buyer can build whatever they want there.
My understanding is that our zoning ordinances do not support many the points of the General Plan that this development clearly violates. The DRB is the last defense.
"Sebastopol has to approve this project to overcome the perception that the town is anti-development (or anti-business, or anti-everything)"
Sebastopol is clearly not anti-development. Barlow and Hollyhock are recent examples. There will always be a percentage of the population that will oppose something. It's called freedom of speech.
"Anything would be better than what is there now."
There are many things that are technically permitted that most people would agree would not be better.
"The developer is making millions of dollars worth of improvements to the surrounding area (sidewalks, etc.)."
Anyone developing that property will be required to make those improvements.
"A pharmacy with a drive-through window would be beneficial to people who are ill and need medication."
This one actually seems to have some merit, but not enough to overcome the the many other negatives. The argument could also be made that someone who is that ill should probably not be driving in the first place.
"We need a pharmacy close to the hospital."
There is already a pharmacy close to the hospital--RiteAid. If CVS relocates, they will leave the north end of town without a pharmacy and with another empty storefront in the Redwood Marketplace.
"No one else has stepped up to purchase the property."
I don't know for a fact if this is the case or not, but that brings me to...
"The property owners have the right to sell their property."
Of course they do, but that does not mean that the buyer can build whatever they want there.
My understanding is that our zoning ordinances do not support many the points of the General Plan that this development clearly violates. The DRB is the last defense.
"Sebastopol has to approve this project to overcome the perception that the town is anti-development (or anti-business, or anti-everything)"
Sebastopol is clearly not anti-development. Barlow and Hollyhock are recent examples. There will always be a percentage of the population that will oppose something. It's called freedom of speech.
Helen Shane
07-03-2012, 10:00 PM
:attention:The Sebastopol City Council meets on Tuesday, July 17, to discuss the appeal by CVS/Chase/Armstrong of the Design Review Board's denial of their project.
A special meeting has been scheduled for Thursday, July 19, for the Council's decision in the matter.
Both meetings start at 6 pm and will be held at the Sebastopol Community and Cultural Center.
Public should plan on attending and to state your case in three or fewer minutes. :welcome:
A special meeting has been scheduled for Thursday, July 19, for the Council's decision in the matter.
Both meetings start at 6 pm and will be held at the Sebastopol Community and Cultural Center.
Public should plan on attending and to state your case in three or fewer minutes. :welcome:
scamperwillow
07-04-2012, 10:44 AM
I have heard much of this also - allow me to add some additional comments:
I have also heard the following from supporters:
"Anything would be better than what is there now."
There are many things that are technically permitted that most people would agree would not be better.
"The developer is making millions of dollars worth of improvements to the surrounding area (sidewalks, etc.)."
Anyone developing that property will be required to make those improvements.
"A pharmacy with a drive-through window would be beneficial to people who are ill and need medication."
This one actually seems to have some merit, but not enough to overcome the the many other negatives. The argument could also be made that someone who is that ill should probably not be driving in the first place.
They could put a drive through at their current location and make tons of improvements for much less than they are spending on this thing.
"We need a pharmacy close to the hospital."
There is already a pharmacy close to the hospital--RiteAid. If CVS relocates, they will leave the north end of town without a pharmacy and with another empty storefront in the Redwood Marketplace.
There is also a pharmacy at Safeway - two downtown seems like enough.....and agreed about the north end of town with convenient parking that will no longer be there.
"No one else has stepped up to purchase the property."
I don't know for a fact if this is the case or not, but that brings me to...
"The property owners have the right to sell their property."
Of course they do, but that does not mean that the buyer can build whatever they want there.
My understanding is that our zoning ordinances do not support many the points of the General Plan that this development clearly violates. The DRB is the last defense.
"Sebastopol has to approve this project to overcome the perception that the town is anti-development (or anti-business, or anti-everything)"
Sebastopol is clearly not anti-development. Barlow and Hollyhock are recent examples. There will always be a percentage of the population that will oppose something. It's called freedom of speech.
I have also heard the following from supporters:
"Anything would be better than what is there now."
There are many things that are technically permitted that most people would agree would not be better.
"The developer is making millions of dollars worth of improvements to the surrounding area (sidewalks, etc.)."
Anyone developing that property will be required to make those improvements.
"A pharmacy with a drive-through window would be beneficial to people who are ill and need medication."
This one actually seems to have some merit, but not enough to overcome the the many other negatives. The argument could also be made that someone who is that ill should probably not be driving in the first place.
They could put a drive through at their current location and make tons of improvements for much less than they are spending on this thing.
"We need a pharmacy close to the hospital."
There is already a pharmacy close to the hospital--RiteAid. If CVS relocates, they will leave the north end of town without a pharmacy and with another empty storefront in the Redwood Marketplace.
There is also a pharmacy at Safeway - two downtown seems like enough.....and agreed about the north end of town with convenient parking that will no longer be there.
"No one else has stepped up to purchase the property."
I don't know for a fact if this is the case or not, but that brings me to...
"The property owners have the right to sell their property."
Of course they do, but that does not mean that the buyer can build whatever they want there.
My understanding is that our zoning ordinances do not support many the points of the General Plan that this development clearly violates. The DRB is the last defense.
"Sebastopol has to approve this project to overcome the perception that the town is anti-development (or anti-business, or anti-everything)"
Sebastopol is clearly not anti-development. Barlow and Hollyhock are recent examples. There will always be a percentage of the population that will oppose something. It's called freedom of speech.
rossmen
07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
hi barton, when i have talked one on one with the people who show up to public meetings who support this development proposal they are most concerned about preferential treatment. they want everyone, including large corporations, to follow the same set of rules. they appreciate rule of law.
cvs/chase are definitely getting the runaround by the drb. is this a problem in a very public process with lots of feedback and final review by elected representatives? the answer lies with your own opinion of this development proposal. this can swing many ways depending on your own interpretation of fairness, development desires, and comfort with democracy.
Who wants it?
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
cvs/chase are definitely getting the runaround by the drb. is this a problem in a very public process with lots of feedback and final review by elected representatives? the answer lies with your own opinion of this development proposal. this can swing many ways depending on your own interpretation of fairness, development desires, and comfort with democracy.
Who wants it?
I take it there are local people who would like to see the project approved despite all the misgivings that have been expressed about it. I'd like to know just who they are and why they want it so much. Because it's "legal" doesn't seem to explain the intensity behind the charges. Does it have to do with money and personal gain? For who exactly, and in what way? Can anyone tell me?
I think the design review board, whatever their motivation, deserves our gratitude for protecting the community from what seems to me like an unnecessary and destructive expansion of corporate presence in the downtown.
I hope the city council fully supports them.
Barton
Barry
07-09-2012, 08:51 PM
On CVS/Chase, the overriding issue is the project is fundamentally a suburban mall like design, and is not appropriate for the prominent location in the heart of downtown.
The site is characterized by:
two isolated buildings separated by a large parking lot and entry driveway
a parking lot dominated site with over twice the required parking
low building density
two drive throughs
few entries addressing the street
These elements combined to create a classic suburban mall like site, which in numerous ways is not in conformance with General Plan goals and Design Review Guidelines for the Downtown Core. Some of these goals and guidelines are:
maintaining continuous storefront
buildings fronting the street
entries that open to the street
high density
no mid block driveways if options exist
locating shopping centers at the edge of town
I, and I suspect other on the Board, were wiling to flex on these goals if the developers would make the project more fitting with the downtown. I met with the developer and project architect to suggest revisions that would mittigate the negatives enough to gain my support for the project. The changes included slightly less parking, a larger plaza and adding a few small shops facing Petaluma Avenue, and otherwise giving them the building footprints they desired. These changes did not meet their corporate model requirements, though they have made similar accommodations in other cities.
At the last DRB meeting, the developer stated that they would not make site changes and requested a vote on the proposal before the DRB. With this impass on basic site issues there was no point in pursuing agreement to detail refinement on the project.
I have to agree with some points in the article. Coming before the Design Review Board can be messy business. We do not all think alike. But, all in all we do a good job, and have made many projects in this town better. If you saw what this CVS/Chase project started out as, you would absolutely agree.
As to the DRB picking which businesses are ok for Sebastopol, I have never heard a DRB member, publicly or privately, even suggest this. I made my decision to reject the application on an evaluation of the whole project and how it complied with Sebastopol's adopted standards for this area.
Lynn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair
[I]Anybody have any comments about these "charges"? - Barry
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8459/logosonomawest.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/editorials/a-broken-system---by-nancy-aita/article_732af264-c094-11e1-b90b-0019bb2963f4.html
Is our Design Review process broken or is the Design Review Board (DRB) just not willing to follow the rules?
• Complete disregard of City Council instructions.
The City Council’s review of the CVS/Chase design on February 21 produced a list of findings to justify their decision to send the review process back to the DRB and to provide direction to the developer and the DRB. Some of these findings were specific and offered design revisions that the Council indicated would be acceptable. City staff gave the DRB specific instructions that if the developer included these proposed revisions in their new design, then this would satisfy the City’s requirements and the DRB would not have to reconsider that item. The DRB ignored this direction and instead continued to cite all the things they considered bad, including the ones that the Council agreed would be acceptable. For example, the DRB members indicated they could not approve the site plan with an in-only driveway entrance from Petaluma Avenue, even though the Council indicated it would be an acceptable alternative. The Council also had indicated that an Abbott Avenue design would be acceptable if the city engineer so approved. The developer complied by revising the design to meet city standards and received approval from the city engineer, but the DRB chairman tried to get the DRB to review the City Council findings, one DRB member asked if anyone had a copy of the findings that he could use, an indication of the lack of importance he placed on the council’s desires.
• Individual DRB members’ desires vs. board consensus:
The DRB’s recent review of the CVS/Chase project followed the format used in past meetings. Each DRB member was asked for his/her comments, but a clear consensus was never asked for or achieved in past meetings. Over 50 items were discussed without reaching a majority agreement on any item. Most of the comments/concerns were general in nature rather than specific directions on which the developer could act. Sometimes two board members contradicted each other. For example, one board member wants the Chase building to face the pedestrian plaza, and another says he thinks it should face Petaluma Avenue. Without discussion and vote on a consensus view, what is the developer to do? Most comments were general comments without specifics. For example: “the pedestrian plaza is too small,” leaving the developer to wonder will increasing its size 3-feet be enough or should it be doubled? “The project needs to be great,” was another comment. What exactly does that mean? “The street is too narrow.” Again, should it be increased 5-feet or 10-feet? It was left up to city staff to guess which comments represented the DRB’s requests and produce a list of findings. One member was bold enough to say he wasn’t prepared to discuss specifics but could provide some at another meeting. What the heck has he been doing all these weeks?
Instead of treating this project like other projects that have recently come before the DRB, it seems the DRB has decided to deny this project simply because it doesn’t want CVS/Chase to build on that property. I am sure this is OK with some members of our community, but it is not legal. Using the design review process to pick and choose the businesses that are appropriate for Sebastopol by simply saying the design doesn’t fit is a power the DRB should not have. Both the people and the process need to change.
Nancy Aita is a Sebastopol resident.
The site is characterized by:
two isolated buildings separated by a large parking lot and entry driveway
a parking lot dominated site with over twice the required parking
low building density
two drive throughs
few entries addressing the street
These elements combined to create a classic suburban mall like site, which in numerous ways is not in conformance with General Plan goals and Design Review Guidelines for the Downtown Core. Some of these goals and guidelines are:
maintaining continuous storefront
buildings fronting the street
entries that open to the street
high density
no mid block driveways if options exist
locating shopping centers at the edge of town
I, and I suspect other on the Board, were wiling to flex on these goals if the developers would make the project more fitting with the downtown. I met with the developer and project architect to suggest revisions that would mittigate the negatives enough to gain my support for the project. The changes included slightly less parking, a larger plaza and adding a few small shops facing Petaluma Avenue, and otherwise giving them the building footprints they desired. These changes did not meet their corporate model requirements, though they have made similar accommodations in other cities.
At the last DRB meeting, the developer stated that they would not make site changes and requested a vote on the proposal before the DRB. With this impass on basic site issues there was no point in pursuing agreement to detail refinement on the project.
I have to agree with some points in the article. Coming before the Design Review Board can be messy business. We do not all think alike. But, all in all we do a good job, and have made many projects in this town better. If you saw what this CVS/Chase project started out as, you would absolutely agree.
As to the DRB picking which businesses are ok for Sebastopol, I have never heard a DRB member, publicly or privately, even suggest this. I made my decision to reject the application on an evaluation of the whole project and how it complied with Sebastopol's adopted standards for this area.
Lynn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair
[I]Anybody have any comments about these "charges"? - Barry
https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8459/logosonomawest.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/editorials/a-broken-system---by-nancy-aita/article_732af264-c094-11e1-b90b-0019bb2963f4.html
Is our Design Review process broken or is the Design Review Board (DRB) just not willing to follow the rules?
• Complete disregard of City Council instructions.
The City Council’s review of the CVS/Chase design on February 21 produced a list of findings to justify their decision to send the review process back to the DRB and to provide direction to the developer and the DRB. Some of these findings were specific and offered design revisions that the Council indicated would be acceptable. City staff gave the DRB specific instructions that if the developer included these proposed revisions in their new design, then this would satisfy the City’s requirements and the DRB would not have to reconsider that item. The DRB ignored this direction and instead continued to cite all the things they considered bad, including the ones that the Council agreed would be acceptable. For example, the DRB members indicated they could not approve the site plan with an in-only driveway entrance from Petaluma Avenue, even though the Council indicated it would be an acceptable alternative. The Council also had indicated that an Abbott Avenue design would be acceptable if the city engineer so approved. The developer complied by revising the design to meet city standards and received approval from the city engineer, but the DRB chairman tried to get the DRB to review the City Council findings, one DRB member asked if anyone had a copy of the findings that he could use, an indication of the lack of importance he placed on the council’s desires.
• Individual DRB members’ desires vs. board consensus:
The DRB’s recent review of the CVS/Chase project followed the format used in past meetings. Each DRB member was asked for his/her comments, but a clear consensus was never asked for or achieved in past meetings. Over 50 items were discussed without reaching a majority agreement on any item. Most of the comments/concerns were general in nature rather than specific directions on which the developer could act. Sometimes two board members contradicted each other. For example, one board member wants the Chase building to face the pedestrian plaza, and another says he thinks it should face Petaluma Avenue. Without discussion and vote on a consensus view, what is the developer to do? Most comments were general comments without specifics. For example: “the pedestrian plaza is too small,” leaving the developer to wonder will increasing its size 3-feet be enough or should it be doubled? “The project needs to be great,” was another comment. What exactly does that mean? “The street is too narrow.” Again, should it be increased 5-feet or 10-feet? It was left up to city staff to guess which comments represented the DRB’s requests and produce a list of findings. One member was bold enough to say he wasn’t prepared to discuss specifics but could provide some at another meeting. What the heck has he been doing all these weeks?
Instead of treating this project like other projects that have recently come before the DRB, it seems the DRB has decided to deny this project simply because it doesn’t want CVS/Chase to build on that property. I am sure this is OK with some members of our community, but it is not legal. Using the design review process to pick and choose the businesses that are appropriate for Sebastopol by simply saying the design doesn’t fit is a power the DRB should not have. Both the people and the process need to change.
Nancy Aita is a Sebastopol resident.
photolite
07-09-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm a bit flabbergasted by parts of this. In a town that is ALWAYS complaining of insufficient parking this project is being taken to task for having too much!
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.
[I have posted the following response by Lyn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair, on his request. -Barry]
On CVS/Chase, the overriding issue is the project is fundamentally a suburban mall like design, and is not appropriate for the prominent location in the heart of downtown.
The site is characterized by:
two isolated buildings separated by a large parking lot and entry driveway
a parking lot dominated site with over twice the required parking
low building density
two drive throughs
few entries addressing the street
These elements combined to create a classic suburban mall like site, which in numerous ways is not in conformance with General Plan goals and Design Review Guidelines for the Downtown Core. Some of these goals and guidelines are:
maintaining continuous storefront
buildings fronting the street
entries that open to the street
high density
no mid block driveways if options exist
locating shopping centers at the edge of town
I, and I suspect other on the Board, were wiling to flex on these goals if the developers would make the project more fitting with the downtown. I met with the developer and project architect to suggest revisions that would mittigate the negatives enough to gain my support for the project. The changes included slightly less parking, a larger plaza and adding a few small shops facing Petaluma Avenue, and otherwise giving them the building footprints they desired. These changes did not meet their corporate model requirements, though they have made similar accommodations in other cities.
At the last DRB meeting, the developer stated that they would not make site changes and requested a vote on the proposal before the DRB. With this impass on basic site issues there was no point in pursuing agreement to detail refinement on the project.
I have to agree with some points in the article. Coming before the Design Review Board can be messy business. We do not all think alike. But, all in all we do a good job, and have made many projects in this town better. If you saw what this CVS/Chase project started out as, you would absolutely agree.
As to the DRB picking which businesses are ok for Sebastopol, I have never heard a DRB member, publicly or privately, even suggest this. I made my decision to reject the application on an evaluation of the whole project and how it complied with Sebastopol's adopted standards for this area.
Lynn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.
[I have posted the following response by Lyn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair, on his request. -Barry]
On CVS/Chase, the overriding issue is the project is fundamentally a suburban mall like design, and is not appropriate for the prominent location in the heart of downtown.
The site is characterized by:
two isolated buildings separated by a large parking lot and entry driveway
a parking lot dominated site with over twice the required parking
low building density
two drive throughs
few entries addressing the street
These elements combined to create a classic suburban mall like site, which in numerous ways is not in conformance with General Plan goals and Design Review Guidelines for the Downtown Core. Some of these goals and guidelines are:
maintaining continuous storefront
buildings fronting the street
entries that open to the street
high density
no mid block driveways if options exist
locating shopping centers at the edge of town
I, and I suspect other on the Board, were wiling to flex on these goals if the developers would make the project more fitting with the downtown. I met with the developer and project architect to suggest revisions that would mittigate the negatives enough to gain my support for the project. The changes included slightly less parking, a larger plaza and adding a few small shops facing Petaluma Avenue, and otherwise giving them the building footprints they desired. These changes did not meet their corporate model requirements, though they have made similar accommodations in other cities.
At the last DRB meeting, the developer stated that they would not make site changes and requested a vote on the proposal before the DRB. With this impass on basic site issues there was no point in pursuing agreement to detail refinement on the project.
I have to agree with some points in the article. Coming before the Design Review Board can be messy business. We do not all think alike. But, all in all we do a good job, and have made many projects in this town better. If you saw what this CVS/Chase project started out as, you would absolutely agree.
As to the DRB picking which businesses are ok for Sebastopol, I have never heard a DRB member, publicly or privately, even suggest this. I made my decision to reject the application on an evaluation of the whole project and how it complied with Sebastopol's adopted standards for this area.
Lynn Deedler, DRB Vice Chair
1104GT
07-10-2012, 08:57 AM
In response to photolite's excellent questions and observations:
"...how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?".
Barlow is zoned Industrial, not Downtown Core and is not identified in the General Plan as part of the "pedestrian friendly" downtown area. During the Northeast Plan process, they tried unsuccessfully to rezone it to be more like downtown.
"I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years".
One of those buildings is North of downtown (I assume you talking about Peter Lowell's) and, like the Barlow is not included in the General Plan "pedestrian friendly" downtown core. That said, although I don't love the look, it is actually designed to function much more like a downtown building than this CVS/Chase design. The other, across the street from Pellini is not that bad from a site planning standpoint given the challenges with the site, but suffers from a lack of craftsmanship and very poor detailing. I agree the DRB should have been more demanding of both projects.
Most of what has been built in the past 10 years has been mediocre at best in terms of design. I think we should be much more demanding across the board in terms of design.
As for parking, I think a parking problem should be the goal. That's a sign of desirability and we are not even close to having one yet. We can fix that with a well designed parking structure. The City should establish a parking district downtown ASAP and start planning for it now.
"...how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?".
Barlow is zoned Industrial, not Downtown Core and is not identified in the General Plan as part of the "pedestrian friendly" downtown area. During the Northeast Plan process, they tried unsuccessfully to rezone it to be more like downtown.
"I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years".
One of those buildings is North of downtown (I assume you talking about Peter Lowell's) and, like the Barlow is not included in the General Plan "pedestrian friendly" downtown core. That said, although I don't love the look, it is actually designed to function much more like a downtown building than this CVS/Chase design. The other, across the street from Pellini is not that bad from a site planning standpoint given the challenges with the site, but suffers from a lack of craftsmanship and very poor detailing. I agree the DRB should have been more demanding of both projects.
Most of what has been built in the past 10 years has been mediocre at best in terms of design. I think we should be much more demanding across the board in terms of design.
As for parking, I think a parking problem should be the goal. That's a sign of desirability and we are not even close to having one yet. We can fix that with a well designed parking structure. The City should establish a parking district downtown ASAP and start planning for it now.
eeeeeeow
07-10-2012, 03:32 PM
Thank you for this, Lynn. I think you should submit this or the jist of this to the editor of the Press Democrat, because those critiques of the DRB have certainly been publicly stated. I did not envy you guys one bit, but am quite impressed at the way you all handled it throughout this sticky process.
Best,
Bill Shortridge
On CVS/Chase, the overriding issue is the project is fundamentally a suburban mall like design,...
Best,
Bill Shortridge
On CVS/Chase, the overriding issue is the project is fundamentally a suburban mall like design,...
Helen Shane
07-10-2012, 04:01 PM
In Sebastopol's effort to hold to a vision of a pedestrian-friendly, small, but lively downtown Sebastopol, it is reassuring to know that the courts generally defer to local communities in interpreting the ordinances which they have approved. So since Sebastopol's General Plan strongly emphasizes the idea of a pedestrian-friendly downtown, the city is on strong legal ground in rejecting the CVS mall with a driveway through a supposedly pedestrian plaza. Or a big boxlike store instead of Main Street -like shops. Here are some of the recent court holdings:
Deference to City Councils' General Plan Interpretation
Regarding the City Council's role in judging the adequacy of a project's meeting the goals of the General Plan, courts defer to a local agency’s interpretation of its own planning documents:
When reviewing an agency's decision for consistency with its own general plan, an appellate court accords great deference to the agency's determination, because the body which adopted the general plan policies in its legislative capacity has unique competence to interpret those policies when applying them in its adjudicatory capacity.
Pfeiffer v. City of Sunnyvale City Council (2011) 200 Cal.App.4th 1552, review denied.
“Generally, ‘courts accord great deference to a local governmental agency's determination of consistency with its own general plan, recognizing that ‘the body which adopted the general plan policies in its legislative capacity has unique competence to interpret those policies when applying them in its adjudicatory capacity. [Citations.] Because policies in a general plan reflect a range of competing interests, the governmental agency must be allowed to weigh and balance the plan's policies when applying them, and it has broad discretion to construe its policies in light of the plan's purposes. [Citations.] ...’...’’ (San Franciscans Upholding the Downtown Plan v. City & County of San Francisco (2002) 102 Cal.App.4th 656, 677–678, 125 Cal.Rptr.2d 745, quoting Save Our Peninsula Committee v. Monterey County Bd. of Supervisors (2001) 87 Cal.App.4th 99, 142, 104 Cal.Rptr.2d 326.)”
Jamieson v. City Council of the City of Carpinteria (2012) 204 Cal.App.4th 755, 763.
Also, a court reviewing an agency decision on a project usually applies what is known as the “substantial evidence” test to see whether the city’s decision should be upheld. This is a very deferential test. As explained by the California Court of Appeal in the Jamieson case:
Because no vested right is involved, the court reviews the City's decision to deny Jamieson a development permit applying the substantial evidence test. (LT–WR, L.L.C. v. California Coastal Com., supra, 152 Cal.App.4th at p. 780, 60 Cal.Rptr.3d 417.) In such a review, the court presumes that the findings and actions of the agency are supported by substantial evidence. (Desmond v. County of Contra Costa (1993) 21 Cal.App.4th 330, 335–336, 25 Cal.Rptr.2d 842.) The court may not reweigh the evidence. Moreover, the court must consider the facts in the light most favorable to the agency, giving it every reasonable inference and resolving all conflicts in its favor. (Flowers v. State Personnel Bd. (1985) 174 Cal.App.3d 753, 758, 220 Cal.Rptr. 139.) Thus, unless the findings “ ‘... are so lacking in evidentiary support as to render them unreasonable,...’ ” the courts must uphold the findings. (Jaramillo v. State Bd. for Geologists and Geophysicists (2006) 136 Cal.App.4th 880, 889, 39 Cal.Rptr.3d 170.)
Jamieson v. City Council of the City of Carpinteria (2012) 204 Cal.App.4th 755, 763.
The City is on solid ground in interpreting its own land use plans and guidelines to find that the design is still lacking, so long as its interpretations and findings are fundamentally reasonable, which they have been. The key issue before the Council remains whether it thinks the design complies with the guidelines.
Rebuttal to Bill McDermott’s supplementary letter dated June 21, 2012re CVS/Chase/Armstrong application for the development of 6877 Sebastopol Ave.
McDermott’s appeal generally charges that the DRB went beyond the direction of the Council. This is not true. Rather, the DRB did its job of analyzing whether the Applicant’s revised plan which attempted to respond to the Council’s directions meets the City’s Design Guidelines, a job it is uniquely qualified to perform.
McDermott:
“The Design Review Board generally ignored many of the Project’s design changes and the evidence in the record outlining how these changes are consistent with the City Council Findings when it drafted its finding for denial. For example, even with the design changes incorporating more building articulation, reduced height and the use of brick on both buildings, the Design Board continues to deny the Project’s design because of “box-like massing”, “dominant height” and a “lack of cohesive visual relationship” between the two buildings.” “However, the Design Review Board continues to deny the Project’s design because it is not consistent with the character of the downtown area.”
Rebuttal:
The Council in its the resolution dated February 21, 2012 suggested several options in an attempt to achieve compliance with the General Plan, which derives much of its ambient character and substantive elements from the Downtown Portfolio and the Downtown Plan. DRB found that the options subsequently proposed by the Applicant did not render the design substantively changed to ameliorate the box like massing and dominant height; the Applicant did not sufficiently mitigate the undesirable features of the plan regarding the architecture, and its inconsistency with the character of downtown according to the General Plan.
McDermott:
“Several of the Design Review Board findings directly contradict the City Council findings. For example, Armstrong revised the Project’s design to narrow the Petaluma (Avenue) driveway to “in-only” consistent with an option provided in City Council Findings 1.h & 3.c. However, the Design Review Board refused to acknowledge that Armstrong had satisfied the City Council Finding regarding the Petaluma (Avenue) Driveway. The Design Review Board thus erred in adopting the Design Review Board finding (f) providing that the current design for the Petaluma (Avenue) driveway is not appropriate and that the driveway should be designed to be a fire lane only and there should be no driveway.”
Rebuttal:
In the matter of “pedestrian friendly” (General Plan direction) and pedestrian safety, the Council made several suggestions. The design option selected by the Applicant did not, in the opinion of the Design Review Board result in the pedestrian oriented character as described in the Downtown Plan, Downtown Portfolio and the General Plan. In addition, the safety of pedestrians and drivers entering and exiting vehicles in what was to be a combined plaza, vehicle entrance and parking lot would be badly compromised.
Regarding the driveway and roadways into the project and the adequacy of the rebuilding of Abbott Street, the Council in its findings suggested some optional alternatives which, when selected by the Applicant, still did not, in the opinion of Design Review Board members, sufficiently change the character of the project enough to comply with the Downtown Plan, the Downtown Portfolio and the General Plan. It was up to the Applicant to revise the design pursuant to the Council’s direction in a way that complies with the Design Review Guidelines. The DRB appropriately applied the DR Guidelines to the revised design.
There is still the matter of some unresolved issues with CalTrans on traffic circulation matters. Caltrans has not approved the Petaluma Avenue in-only driveway nor the left turn to the project via Barnes Avenue by vehicles coming from the east on Highway 12, nor the drive-thru exit of the pharmacy. And the proposed New Striped Crossing on Petaluma Ave as well as the New Signalized Pedestrian Crossing on SR-12 have not been approved.
These are just a few of the issues that led to denial of the project by the Design Review Board.
It is up to the City Council and its agents to decide whether or not a project complies with its General Plan and relevant ordinances. This is a critical function that does not go away simply because the Council provided some direction as to what it would like to see in the new design.
The City has the right and responsibility to ensure that what is built on the property conforms with the General Plan.
Deference to City Councils' General Plan Interpretation
Regarding the City Council's role in judging the adequacy of a project's meeting the goals of the General Plan, courts defer to a local agency’s interpretation of its own planning documents:
When reviewing an agency's decision for consistency with its own general plan, an appellate court accords great deference to the agency's determination, because the body which adopted the general plan policies in its legislative capacity has unique competence to interpret those policies when applying them in its adjudicatory capacity.
Pfeiffer v. City of Sunnyvale City Council (2011) 200 Cal.App.4th 1552, review denied.
“Generally, ‘courts accord great deference to a local governmental agency's determination of consistency with its own general plan, recognizing that ‘the body which adopted the general plan policies in its legislative capacity has unique competence to interpret those policies when applying them in its adjudicatory capacity. [Citations.] Because policies in a general plan reflect a range of competing interests, the governmental agency must be allowed to weigh and balance the plan's policies when applying them, and it has broad discretion to construe its policies in light of the plan's purposes. [Citations.] ...’...’’ (San Franciscans Upholding the Downtown Plan v. City & County of San Francisco (2002) 102 Cal.App.4th 656, 677–678, 125 Cal.Rptr.2d 745, quoting Save Our Peninsula Committee v. Monterey County Bd. of Supervisors (2001) 87 Cal.App.4th 99, 142, 104 Cal.Rptr.2d 326.)”
Jamieson v. City Council of the City of Carpinteria (2012) 204 Cal.App.4th 755, 763.
Also, a court reviewing an agency decision on a project usually applies what is known as the “substantial evidence” test to see whether the city’s decision should be upheld. This is a very deferential test. As explained by the California Court of Appeal in the Jamieson case:
Because no vested right is involved, the court reviews the City's decision to deny Jamieson a development permit applying the substantial evidence test. (LT–WR, L.L.C. v. California Coastal Com., supra, 152 Cal.App.4th at p. 780, 60 Cal.Rptr.3d 417.) In such a review, the court presumes that the findings and actions of the agency are supported by substantial evidence. (Desmond v. County of Contra Costa (1993) 21 Cal.App.4th 330, 335–336, 25 Cal.Rptr.2d 842.) The court may not reweigh the evidence. Moreover, the court must consider the facts in the light most favorable to the agency, giving it every reasonable inference and resolving all conflicts in its favor. (Flowers v. State Personnel Bd. (1985) 174 Cal.App.3d 753, 758, 220 Cal.Rptr. 139.) Thus, unless the findings “ ‘... are so lacking in evidentiary support as to render them unreasonable,...’ ” the courts must uphold the findings. (Jaramillo v. State Bd. for Geologists and Geophysicists (2006) 136 Cal.App.4th 880, 889, 39 Cal.Rptr.3d 170.)
Jamieson v. City Council of the City of Carpinteria (2012) 204 Cal.App.4th 755, 763.
The City is on solid ground in interpreting its own land use plans and guidelines to find that the design is still lacking, so long as its interpretations and findings are fundamentally reasonable, which they have been. The key issue before the Council remains whether it thinks the design complies with the guidelines.
Rebuttal to Bill McDermott’s supplementary letter dated June 21, 2012re CVS/Chase/Armstrong application for the development of 6877 Sebastopol Ave.
McDermott’s appeal generally charges that the DRB went beyond the direction of the Council. This is not true. Rather, the DRB did its job of analyzing whether the Applicant’s revised plan which attempted to respond to the Council’s directions meets the City’s Design Guidelines, a job it is uniquely qualified to perform.
McDermott:
“The Design Review Board generally ignored many of the Project’s design changes and the evidence in the record outlining how these changes are consistent with the City Council Findings when it drafted its finding for denial. For example, even with the design changes incorporating more building articulation, reduced height and the use of brick on both buildings, the Design Board continues to deny the Project’s design because of “box-like massing”, “dominant height” and a “lack of cohesive visual relationship” between the two buildings.” “However, the Design Review Board continues to deny the Project’s design because it is not consistent with the character of the downtown area.”
Rebuttal:
The Council in its the resolution dated February 21, 2012 suggested several options in an attempt to achieve compliance with the General Plan, which derives much of its ambient character and substantive elements from the Downtown Portfolio and the Downtown Plan. DRB found that the options subsequently proposed by the Applicant did not render the design substantively changed to ameliorate the box like massing and dominant height; the Applicant did not sufficiently mitigate the undesirable features of the plan regarding the architecture, and its inconsistency with the character of downtown according to the General Plan.
McDermott:
“Several of the Design Review Board findings directly contradict the City Council findings. For example, Armstrong revised the Project’s design to narrow the Petaluma (Avenue) driveway to “in-only” consistent with an option provided in City Council Findings 1.h & 3.c. However, the Design Review Board refused to acknowledge that Armstrong had satisfied the City Council Finding regarding the Petaluma (Avenue) Driveway. The Design Review Board thus erred in adopting the Design Review Board finding (f) providing that the current design for the Petaluma (Avenue) driveway is not appropriate and that the driveway should be designed to be a fire lane only and there should be no driveway.”
Rebuttal:
In the matter of “pedestrian friendly” (General Plan direction) and pedestrian safety, the Council made several suggestions. The design option selected by the Applicant did not, in the opinion of the Design Review Board result in the pedestrian oriented character as described in the Downtown Plan, Downtown Portfolio and the General Plan. In addition, the safety of pedestrians and drivers entering and exiting vehicles in what was to be a combined plaza, vehicle entrance and parking lot would be badly compromised.
Regarding the driveway and roadways into the project and the adequacy of the rebuilding of Abbott Street, the Council in its findings suggested some optional alternatives which, when selected by the Applicant, still did not, in the opinion of Design Review Board members, sufficiently change the character of the project enough to comply with the Downtown Plan, the Downtown Portfolio and the General Plan. It was up to the Applicant to revise the design pursuant to the Council’s direction in a way that complies with the Design Review Guidelines. The DRB appropriately applied the DR Guidelines to the revised design.
There is still the matter of some unresolved issues with CalTrans on traffic circulation matters. Caltrans has not approved the Petaluma Avenue in-only driveway nor the left turn to the project via Barnes Avenue by vehicles coming from the east on Highway 12, nor the drive-thru exit of the pharmacy. And the proposed New Striped Crossing on Petaluma Ave as well as the New Signalized Pedestrian Crossing on SR-12 have not been approved.
These are just a few of the issues that led to denial of the project by the Design Review Board.
It is up to the City Council and its agents to decide whether or not a project complies with its General Plan and relevant ordinances. This is a critical function that does not go away simply because the Council provided some direction as to what it would like to see in the new design.
The City has the right and responsibility to ensure that what is built on the property conforms with the General Plan.
Peacetown Jonathan
07-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Helen, thank you for the insight and lucidity that you have brought, and continue to bring to this important community issue! You are a great asset to sustaining and expanding a green, wonderful Sebastopol!
occupied95472
07-11-2012, 07:21 AM
Stop CHASE CVS
Date*&*Time: July 13th & 17th
Location:* Sebastopol
Stop Chase Bank and CVS Pharmacy from Moving Downtown!!!
• Protest Friday July 13th 3:00 p.m.
• City Council Meeting July 17th, 19th 6:00 p.m. Sebastopol Community Center
Occupy Sebastopol and community members will be protesting the CVS/Chase project proposed on the corner of Highway 12 and 116. The majority of the community has not supported this project. The Design Review Board, Planning Commission, and City Council have all voted against this development. It is still an issue because of the persistence of CVS, Chase, and Armstrong Development. To be successful in stopping this project, we must also be persistent.
All are welcome and encouraged to join us between 3pm and 6pm on Friday the 13th (July) to protest CVS and Chase moving downtown. After meeting in the plaza at 2:30pm we will move to the corner of hwy 12/116 where we will peacefully demonstrate against this project between 3 and 6 p.m.
Let the city council know how you feel during public comment on July 17th. July 17th is the date of the appeal hearing for CVC/Chase and Armstrong Development. If a decision is not made on the 17th, the council will meet again on the 19th. Public comments will be heard on the 17th. If you can only attend one night, please come on the 17th. (THESE ARE THE FINAL MEETINGS WHERE A DECISION WILL BE MADE; IMPORTANT TO ATTEND)
• This project is bad for traffic, local business, and Sebastopol’s character.
• CVS has paid out almost half a billion dollars to settle various lawsuits and fines, ranging from illegal labor practices and deceptive business practices, to racketeering, corruption, and the mishandling of toxic waste.
• JP Morgan Chase received $94.7 billion in bail-out funds, of which $64 billion is still on the backs of tax payers. Chase is among the leaders in home foreclosures and is under investigation by the New York State Attorney General over allegations of its fraudulent foreclosure practices. They are now under investigation by the FBI and SEC regarding their recent loss of more than 3 billion dollars.
Do these two corporations seem like the kind of businesses and neighbors we want in our community, at the heart of our town? If not, join us on Friday the 13th for the protest and on the 17th and 19th for the council meetings.
Occupy Sebastopol holds weekly General Assemblies on Sundays in the town plaza @ 3:00p.m.
Date*&*Time: July 13th & 17th
Location:* Sebastopol
Stop Chase Bank and CVS Pharmacy from Moving Downtown!!!
• Protest Friday July 13th 3:00 p.m.
• City Council Meeting July 17th, 19th 6:00 p.m. Sebastopol Community Center
Occupy Sebastopol and community members will be protesting the CVS/Chase project proposed on the corner of Highway 12 and 116. The majority of the community has not supported this project. The Design Review Board, Planning Commission, and City Council have all voted against this development. It is still an issue because of the persistence of CVS, Chase, and Armstrong Development. To be successful in stopping this project, we must also be persistent.
All are welcome and encouraged to join us between 3pm and 6pm on Friday the 13th (July) to protest CVS and Chase moving downtown. After meeting in the plaza at 2:30pm we will move to the corner of hwy 12/116 where we will peacefully demonstrate against this project between 3 and 6 p.m.
Let the city council know how you feel during public comment on July 17th. July 17th is the date of the appeal hearing for CVC/Chase and Armstrong Development. If a decision is not made on the 17th, the council will meet again on the 19th. Public comments will be heard on the 17th. If you can only attend one night, please come on the 17th. (THESE ARE THE FINAL MEETINGS WHERE A DECISION WILL BE MADE; IMPORTANT TO ATTEND)
• This project is bad for traffic, local business, and Sebastopol’s character.
• CVS has paid out almost half a billion dollars to settle various lawsuits and fines, ranging from illegal labor practices and deceptive business practices, to racketeering, corruption, and the mishandling of toxic waste.
• JP Morgan Chase received $94.7 billion in bail-out funds, of which $64 billion is still on the backs of tax payers. Chase is among the leaders in home foreclosures and is under investigation by the New York State Attorney General over allegations of its fraudulent foreclosure practices. They are now under investigation by the FBI and SEC regarding their recent loss of more than 3 billion dollars.
Do these two corporations seem like the kind of businesses and neighbors we want in our community, at the heart of our town? If not, join us on Friday the 13th for the protest and on the 17th and 19th for the council meetings.
Occupy Sebastopol holds weekly General Assemblies on Sundays in the town plaza @ 3:00p.m.
scamperwillow
07-11-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks for sharing that information about the wines - great news! But I only see two listed - Kosta Brown and Dehlinger. Who was the third?
I've attended every DRB meeting on this subject for the past year. Not until the last meeting did I feel the DRB was actually basing their opinion on the General Plan. I'm still surprised they didn't go further in stating their reasons for denial. All I've heard from proponents of this issue is that "it fits the general plan" when it actually doesn't on approximately 22 different counts by my interpretation. I've read this thing over and over and cannot believe the project has gotten this far.
Pragmatically, if we are to support the locall businesses in this community; if we are to populate the new Barlow project as well as downtown commerce with patrons, as well as local wineries who make some of the best wines in the world, then we need to re-think and get something in there (a hotel where people like their bags carried, for instance) that promotes the right kind of traffic, instead of the traffic our town cannot support. Do you folks know that Wine Spectator magazine picked three Sebastopol wineries in the top 10 in its annual Best 100 Wines in the World issue for 2011 (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111117/ARTICLES/111171005)?!?!?! THAT'S what would bring people here. Not drive-through drug windows. It is heartbreaking to think of this opportunity squandered. Because CVS will do irrepairable harm to the growth of Sebastopol. Where is that Business Outreach committee we're suppose to have in City Hall?
I've attended every DRB meeting on this subject for the past year. Not until the last meeting did I feel the DRB was actually basing their opinion on the General Plan. I'm still surprised they didn't go further in stating their reasons for denial. All I've heard from proponents of this issue is that "it fits the general plan" when it actually doesn't on approximately 22 different counts by my interpretation. I've read this thing over and over and cannot believe the project has gotten this far.
Pragmatically, if we are to support the locall businesses in this community; if we are to populate the new Barlow project as well as downtown commerce with patrons, as well as local wineries who make some of the best wines in the world, then we need to re-think and get something in there (a hotel where people like their bags carried, for instance) that promotes the right kind of traffic, instead of the traffic our town cannot support. Do you folks know that Wine Spectator magazine picked three Sebastopol wineries in the top 10 in its annual Best 100 Wines in the World issue for 2011 (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111117/ARTICLES/111171005)?!?!?! THAT'S what would bring people here. Not drive-through drug windows. It is heartbreaking to think of this opportunity squandered. Because CVS will do irrepairable harm to the growth of Sebastopol. Where is that Business Outreach committee we're suppose to have in City Hall?
rossmen
07-11-2012, 12:49 PM
i assume you are writing about my evaluation that the drb is giving chase/cvs the runaround. i love democracy and like to think of rules as requests. sebastopol will get a chance in the upcoming election to either confirm or change the treatment of these two corporations. there seems to be two slates for the open council seats and i guess you will vote for the incumbent-advocate and business friendly architect? i am outside the limits.
I'm a bit flabbergasted by parts of this. In a town that is ALWAYS complaining of insufficient parking this project is being taken to task for having too much!
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.
I'm a bit flabbergasted by parts of this. In a town that is ALWAYS complaining of insufficient parking this project is being taken to task for having too much!
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.
Shepherd
07-11-2012, 01:38 PM
Big Chase/CVS Threaten Small Town’s Future & Soul
By Shepherd Bliss
A fierce struggle since early last year over a proposed Chase Bank and CVS Pharmacy development that has been debated publicly in numerous meetings in Sebastopol may reach a climax at the July 17 and 19 City Council public hearings. The Council will either confirm previous decisions made by itself, the Design Review Board (DRB), and Planning Commission to reject the proposal at a downtown commons corner or allow it to go forward.
https://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7619/nocvschase.pngOn one hand, there are the good, loyal friends of the Pellini family, which owns the corner, and some Rotarians supporting the proposal by focusing on the past and private property, both of which are important. A recent letter to the editor of a local weekly advocated this position regarding “the Pellini project,” as if this important issue were merely a personal matter, rather than a larger issue about Sebastopol’s small town character.
The development’s opposition focuses on Sebastopol’s future, the consequences of what ends up on that key corner, and the bigger picture beyond any one family and its friends. Chase, the U.S.’s largest bank, and its frequent partner, CVS, the U.S.’s 18th largest corporation, anchoring the center of our small town would threaten local businesses, including credit unions and local banks.
https://www.mgb-home.de/D-Goliath.jpgThe Chase/CVS development has been appropriately rejected numerous times by the DRB, the Planning Commission, and the City Council, for many valid reasons. Yet the millionaire managers of these two greedy Goliaths keep using their power to get the only thing they want—extracting more money from Sebastopudlians and our natural resources. GoLocal needs to be more than a slogan; it should be practiced.
The evening July 17th and 19th City Council meetings on Chase/CVS, starting at 6 p.m., have moved to the large Sebastopol Community Center at 390 Morris for what is expected to be a show-down. Opponents, who seem to be in the majority, will demonstrate on Friday, July 13, from 3 to 6 p.m. at the corner of Highways 12 and 116, the site of the intended development, in an action initiated by Occupy Sebastopol.
What is happening in Sebastopol with this development also is occurring elsewhere in the United States. https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2012-07-11_1319.pngThough the U.S. economy is faltering, Wall Street banks and corporations are making record profits and paying their CEO’s millions of dollars. The phrase “Banks got bailed out. We got sold out” is accurate. If Sebastopol residents defeat Chase/CVS in this one small town, it could be a message to such 1% corporations seeking to further concentrate their wealth that small Davids can defeat their Goliath power.
I love Sebastopol and its people, in spite of our differences. Chase/CVS do not care about us. They have plundered people around the globe for a long time and paid millions of dollars in penalties.
JP Morgan/Chase received $94.7 billion in bail-out funds, of which $64 billion is still on the backs of tax payers. Chase is among the leaders in home foreclosures and is under investigation by the New York State Attorney General over allegations of its fraudulent foreclosure practices. They are under investigation by the FBI and SEC regarding their recent loss of more than 9 billion dollars in London.
CVS has paid almost half a billion dollars to settle various lawsuits and fines, ranging from illegal labor practices and deceptive business practices, to racketeering, corruption, and the mishandling of toxic wastes.
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1601/617132.jpgChase CEO Jamie Dimon reported to Congress in June that his bank lost $2 billion dollars in the kind of derivative gambling that crashed the American economy. He now admits that it was over $9 billion. Ignorance or malice? Is this the kind of boss we want anchoring our downtown?
Law-makers, including City Council members, should not do what law-breakers want, like Chase/CVS, just because they are powerful. They buy lobbyists, politicians, lawyers, and even U.S. Supreme Court justices. It is time for our small town David to bravely stand up to these mighty Goliaths and be a model for other communities and local businesses threatened by them.
https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4494/kathleenshaffer300x450.jpg
Kathleen
ShafferSebastopol’s next election for City Council is already being influenced by the Chase/CVS proposal. Two seats will be up for the vote on Nov. 2. Kathleen Shaffer, an incumbent, supports the https://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8337/guywilson.jpg
Guy Wilsondevelopment, whereas Mayor Guy Wilson opposes it. [Guy is not running for re-election - Barry]
https://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8466/robertjacob.png
Robert JacobTwo of whose who have taken out papers to run seem to favor the development, Schaeffer and architect and former council member Kathy Austin. The other two would be more likely to vote against it—https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1233/kathyaustin.jpg
Kathy AustinPlanning Commissioner and businessman Robert Jacob and John Eder, a businessman who was formerly a council member in nearby Cotati.
https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4283/jeder07022012.jpg
John EderSo whatever happens in the next week is likely to linger into the City Council elections and influence what that body might decide. Opponents of the development have already submitted one law suit, saying that the development should prepare an Environmental Impact Report (EIR).
Last week’s letter in a local weekly wonders “what is best for the community.” It is certainly not to ignore the damage Chase/CVS have done to people, their homes and health. These loan sharks and drug-dealers, which is what they really are, leave trails of misery.
“Rules and regulations…guidelines” concern the letter writers. Perhaps it is because I am a seminary-trained, ordained United Methodist minister that I believe that laws should be based on ethics and morality and protecting people from harm.
The multiple criminal failures of CVS to clean up its toxic wastes and Chase’s predatory banking practices reveal their lack of ethics and morality. Allowing Chase/CVS to anchor our downtown would be a bargain with the devil, which would put our small town’s soul at risk.
https://www.thebarlow.net/views/images/project_img.jpgI favored the Northeast Area Proposal a few years ago, but through direct democracy, it was defeated. Instead, in that space we now have the Barlow Project, which is genuinely local. Waiting turned out to be best. Let us be patient and strengthen that Eastern entrance to Sebastopol, rather than weaken it with drive-throughs that would clog our downtown with more cars, thus making pedestrian, bicycle, and emergency vehicle movement more difficult.
Something nice at that busy corner would be good. But “nice” and Chase/CVS do not mix. Let’s encourage our current City representatives to be patient until a better, ethical offer comes along. Otherwise, we could be in a long-term relationship with convicted white-collar criminals. Let us not sell an important part of our downtown commons to the highest outside bidder just because they have big bucks. Who knows what other corporate criminals might follow?
We would not allow a crack house or sexual predator to anchor our downtown. Nor should we allow Chase/CVS to do so, for they would be more harmful. Consider the bigger picture and the future of our beloved small town and its soul.
Meanwhile, Chase is one of the banks too big NOT to fall. Let us not go down with it.
(Shepherd Bliss works with Occupy Sebastopol, farms, teaches college, and can be reached at [email protected].)
By Shepherd Bliss
A fierce struggle since early last year over a proposed Chase Bank and CVS Pharmacy development that has been debated publicly in numerous meetings in Sebastopol may reach a climax at the July 17 and 19 City Council public hearings. The Council will either confirm previous decisions made by itself, the Design Review Board (DRB), and Planning Commission to reject the proposal at a downtown commons corner or allow it to go forward.
https://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7619/nocvschase.pngOn one hand, there are the good, loyal friends of the Pellini family, which owns the corner, and some Rotarians supporting the proposal by focusing on the past and private property, both of which are important. A recent letter to the editor of a local weekly advocated this position regarding “the Pellini project,” as if this important issue were merely a personal matter, rather than a larger issue about Sebastopol’s small town character.
The development’s opposition focuses on Sebastopol’s future, the consequences of what ends up on that key corner, and the bigger picture beyond any one family and its friends. Chase, the U.S.’s largest bank, and its frequent partner, CVS, the U.S.’s 18th largest corporation, anchoring the center of our small town would threaten local businesses, including credit unions and local banks.
https://www.mgb-home.de/D-Goliath.jpgThe Chase/CVS development has been appropriately rejected numerous times by the DRB, the Planning Commission, and the City Council, for many valid reasons. Yet the millionaire managers of these two greedy Goliaths keep using their power to get the only thing they want—extracting more money from Sebastopudlians and our natural resources. GoLocal needs to be more than a slogan; it should be practiced.
The evening July 17th and 19th City Council meetings on Chase/CVS, starting at 6 p.m., have moved to the large Sebastopol Community Center at 390 Morris for what is expected to be a show-down. Opponents, who seem to be in the majority, will demonstrate on Friday, July 13, from 3 to 6 p.m. at the corner of Highways 12 and 116, the site of the intended development, in an action initiated by Occupy Sebastopol.
What is happening in Sebastopol with this development also is occurring elsewhere in the United States. https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2012-07-11_1319.pngThough the U.S. economy is faltering, Wall Street banks and corporations are making record profits and paying their CEO’s millions of dollars. The phrase “Banks got bailed out. We got sold out” is accurate. If Sebastopol residents defeat Chase/CVS in this one small town, it could be a message to such 1% corporations seeking to further concentrate their wealth that small Davids can defeat their Goliath power.
I love Sebastopol and its people, in spite of our differences. Chase/CVS do not care about us. They have plundered people around the globe for a long time and paid millions of dollars in penalties.
JP Morgan/Chase received $94.7 billion in bail-out funds, of which $64 billion is still on the backs of tax payers. Chase is among the leaders in home foreclosures and is under investigation by the New York State Attorney General over allegations of its fraudulent foreclosure practices. They are under investigation by the FBI and SEC regarding their recent loss of more than 9 billion dollars in London.
CVS has paid almost half a billion dollars to settle various lawsuits and fines, ranging from illegal labor practices and deceptive business practices, to racketeering, corruption, and the mishandling of toxic wastes.
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1601/617132.jpgChase CEO Jamie Dimon reported to Congress in June that his bank lost $2 billion dollars in the kind of derivative gambling that crashed the American economy. He now admits that it was over $9 billion. Ignorance or malice? Is this the kind of boss we want anchoring our downtown?
Law-makers, including City Council members, should not do what law-breakers want, like Chase/CVS, just because they are powerful. They buy lobbyists, politicians, lawyers, and even U.S. Supreme Court justices. It is time for our small town David to bravely stand up to these mighty Goliaths and be a model for other communities and local businesses threatened by them.
https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4494/kathleenshaffer300x450.jpg
Kathleen
ShafferSebastopol’s next election for City Council is already being influenced by the Chase/CVS proposal. Two seats will be up for the vote on Nov. 2. Kathleen Shaffer, an incumbent, supports the https://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8337/guywilson.jpg
Guy Wilsondevelopment, whereas Mayor Guy Wilson opposes it. [Guy is not running for re-election - Barry]
https://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8466/robertjacob.png
Robert JacobTwo of whose who have taken out papers to run seem to favor the development, Schaeffer and architect and former council member Kathy Austin. The other two would be more likely to vote against it—https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1233/kathyaustin.jpg
Kathy AustinPlanning Commissioner and businessman Robert Jacob and John Eder, a businessman who was formerly a council member in nearby Cotati.
https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4283/jeder07022012.jpg
John EderSo whatever happens in the next week is likely to linger into the City Council elections and influence what that body might decide. Opponents of the development have already submitted one law suit, saying that the development should prepare an Environmental Impact Report (EIR).
Last week’s letter in a local weekly wonders “what is best for the community.” It is certainly not to ignore the damage Chase/CVS have done to people, their homes and health. These loan sharks and drug-dealers, which is what they really are, leave trails of misery.
“Rules and regulations…guidelines” concern the letter writers. Perhaps it is because I am a seminary-trained, ordained United Methodist minister that I believe that laws should be based on ethics and morality and protecting people from harm.
The multiple criminal failures of CVS to clean up its toxic wastes and Chase’s predatory banking practices reveal their lack of ethics and morality. Allowing Chase/CVS to anchor our downtown would be a bargain with the devil, which would put our small town’s soul at risk.
https://www.thebarlow.net/views/images/project_img.jpgI favored the Northeast Area Proposal a few years ago, but through direct democracy, it was defeated. Instead, in that space we now have the Barlow Project, which is genuinely local. Waiting turned out to be best. Let us be patient and strengthen that Eastern entrance to Sebastopol, rather than weaken it with drive-throughs that would clog our downtown with more cars, thus making pedestrian, bicycle, and emergency vehicle movement more difficult.
Something nice at that busy corner would be good. But “nice” and Chase/CVS do not mix. Let’s encourage our current City representatives to be patient until a better, ethical offer comes along. Otherwise, we could be in a long-term relationship with convicted white-collar criminals. Let us not sell an important part of our downtown commons to the highest outside bidder just because they have big bucks. Who knows what other corporate criminals might follow?
We would not allow a crack house or sexual predator to anchor our downtown. Nor should we allow Chase/CVS to do so, for they would be more harmful. Consider the bigger picture and the future of our beloved small town and its soul.
Meanwhile, Chase is one of the banks too big NOT to fall. Let us not go down with it.
(Shepherd Bliss works with Occupy Sebastopol, farms, teaches college, and can be reached at [email protected].)
Helen Shane
07-11-2012, 02:01 PM
City Council Meetings
To Hear Appeal of
Design Review Board Denial
of CVS/Chase Plan
Tuesday, July 17 and Thursday, July 19
6 pm. Sebastopol Cultural and Community Center390 Morris St. Sebastopol
Sebastopol City Council will hear the appeal of the Design Review Board’s denial of the CVS/Chase/Armstrong plan application for 6877 Sebastopol Road, Corner Highways 12 and 116.
Both meetings are public, and public participation is on the agenda. If the first meeting results in adjournment to July 19, it may be that on July 19 only “new” information from the public will be accepted on the issue before the discussion and vote by Council members takes place.
So think about the reasons you believe the Design Review Board’s denial of the plan should be upheld by the City Council and prepare to let the Council know.
P.S. At the recent hearings, proponents of the project have tried to pack meetings to give the impression that the Sebastopol community supports the proposed downtown shopping mall and its additional 2000 auto trips in the heart of downtown. It is important that we all come with our friends and neighbors to show our support for the wisdom of the Design Review Board in rejecting this shopping mall in downtown Sebastopol.
For background documents, here are a number of links:
General Plan https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf)
Downtown Plan https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/planning-information
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/planning-information)
Downtown Portfolio https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/document/sebastopol-downtown-portfolioapril-16-1978
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/document/sebastopol-downtown-portfolioapril-16-1978)
Design Review Guidelines https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf
To Hear Appeal of
Design Review Board Denial
of CVS/Chase Plan
Tuesday, July 17 and Thursday, July 19
6 pm. Sebastopol Cultural and Community Center390 Morris St. Sebastopol
Sebastopol City Council will hear the appeal of the Design Review Board’s denial of the CVS/Chase/Armstrong plan application for 6877 Sebastopol Road, Corner Highways 12 and 116.
Both meetings are public, and public participation is on the agenda. If the first meeting results in adjournment to July 19, it may be that on July 19 only “new” information from the public will be accepted on the issue before the discussion and vote by Council members takes place.
So think about the reasons you believe the Design Review Board’s denial of the plan should be upheld by the City Council and prepare to let the Council know.
P.S. At the recent hearings, proponents of the project have tried to pack meetings to give the impression that the Sebastopol community supports the proposed downtown shopping mall and its additional 2000 auto trips in the heart of downtown. It is important that we all come with our friends and neighbors to show our support for the wisdom of the Design Review Board in rejecting this shopping mall in downtown Sebastopol.
For background documents, here are a number of links:
General Plan https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf)
Downtown Plan https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/planning-information
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/planning-information)
Downtown Portfolio https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/document/sebastopol-downtown-portfolioapril-16-1978
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/document/sebastopol-downtown-portfolioapril-16-1978)
Design Review Guidelines https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/admin/gen_plan_04-01-03_with_links.pdf
photolite
07-11-2012, 10:34 PM
rossmen, I am also outside Sebastopol so can't vote in these elections either. If I could, I wouldn't necessarily be voting based on business friendliness. In fact I don't support the Chase/CVS project. I just don't see an honest way to prevent it. I also don't oppose the Barlow but am convinced the negative traffic impact there will be many times worse than that of CVS/Chase. Yet few are willing to acknowledge this and many speak long and hard to justify the hypocrisy.
My concerns around this issue are more related to a sense of fairness.
I've seen very ugly and cheap looking construction get a pass because its politics are agreeable while that other project will never be accepted because of its politics.
This project will be loved because it provides extra much needed parking in the downtown while that project is unacceptable because it has too much parking.
This project will bring in needed business traffic to our community while that one will bring in too much traffic which will clog our streets.
The truth is that Sebastopol is growing and will never be the place it used to be, the place we fell in love with. But almost every other place I know that's worth living in is experiencing the same thing. We are trying to control the growth in a thoughtful way and I welcome all opinions on how to do this. But before we do anything we need to agree on a set of rules that apply equally to all. It is the inconsistent way that these rules are applied that I take exception to. I detest Chase but if the rules are disregarded for them then you and I are also at risk of being deprived of our rights should our politics rub someone the wrong way.
i assume you are writing about my evaluation that the drb is giving chase/cvs the runaround. i love democracy and like to think of rules as requests. sebastopol will get a chance in the upcoming election to either confirm or change the treatment of these two corporations. there seems to be two slates for the open council seats and i guess you will vote for the incumbent-advocate and business friendly architect? i am outside the limits.
My concerns around this issue are more related to a sense of fairness.
I've seen very ugly and cheap looking construction get a pass because its politics are agreeable while that other project will never be accepted because of its politics.
This project will be loved because it provides extra much needed parking in the downtown while that project is unacceptable because it has too much parking.
This project will bring in needed business traffic to our community while that one will bring in too much traffic which will clog our streets.
The truth is that Sebastopol is growing and will never be the place it used to be, the place we fell in love with. But almost every other place I know that's worth living in is experiencing the same thing. We are trying to control the growth in a thoughtful way and I welcome all opinions on how to do this. But before we do anything we need to agree on a set of rules that apply equally to all. It is the inconsistent way that these rules are applied that I take exception to. I detest Chase but if the rules are disregarded for them then you and I are also at risk of being deprived of our rights should our politics rub someone the wrong way.
i assume you are writing about my evaluation that the drb is giving chase/cvs the runaround. i love democracy and like to think of rules as requests. sebastopol will get a chance in the upcoming election to either confirm or change the treatment of these two corporations. there seems to be two slates for the open council seats and i guess you will vote for the incumbent-advocate and business friendly architect? i am outside the limits.
Sara S
07-13-2012, 08:52 AM
Shepherd, I can't thank you enough for this, and your letter in this week's Sebastopol paper was great!
Sara
Big Chase/CVS Threaten Small Town’s Future & Soul
By Shepherd Bliss
Sara
Big Chase/CVS Threaten Small Town’s Future & Soul
By Shepherd Bliss
dominus
07-13-2012, 09:50 AM
In the 21st century, wouldn't be appropriate to press for the issues of stewardship? Individual land rights shouldn't trump the greater needs and consensus of a community. CVS and Chase management are comprised of individuals who are money junkies and have made choices to sacrifice morality in the pursuit of self-serving profit. Their thinking is "hurry up and get what you can because everything is falling apart." There is no vision, no loyalty, no integrity and no love for the land and people of this country.
rossmen
07-13-2012, 01:32 PM
you bring up many important things. i want sebastopol to grow in ways i will love. and it is frustrating to have a voice and no vote. traffic will get worse of course, as it has since the town was named for a bar fight 140 years ago. parking? right now the council is trying to sell the downtown lot which rarely fills up! without somekind of pass through/around 12 will grid up more and more, morris is the growing factor now and barlow will kick it over into new mollassas beyond the imagination of any traffic engineer. and if cvs/chase goes through (the traffic study barely passed negative declaration and did not include barlow), you all best be bicycling with me if you want to get anywhere in sebtown:...)
rossmen, I am also outside Sebastopol so can't vote in these elections either. If I could, I wouldn't necessarily be voting based on business friendliness. In fact I don't support the Chase/CVS project. I just don't see an honest way to prevent it. I also don't oppose the Barlow but am convinced the negative traffic impact there will be many times worse than that of CVS/Chase. Yet few are willing to acknowledge this and many speak long and hard to justify the hypocrisy.
My concerns around this issue are more related to a sense of fairness.
I've seen very ugly and cheap looking construction get a pass because its politics are agreeable while that other project will never be accepted because of its politics.
This project will be loved because it provides extra much needed parking in the downtown while that project is unacceptable because it has too much parking.
This project will bring in needed business traffic to our community while that one will bring in too much traffic which will clog our streets.
The truth is that Sebastopol is growing and will never be the place it used to be, the place we fell in love with. But almost every other place I know that's worth living in is experiencing the same thing. We are trying to control the growth in a thoughtful way and I welcome all opinions on how to do this. But before we do anything we need to agree on a set of rules that apply equally to all. It is the inconsistent way that these rules are applied that I take exception to. I detest Chase but if the rules are disregarded for them then you and I are also at risk of being deprived of our rights should our politics rub someone the wrong way.
rossmen, I am also outside Sebastopol so can't vote in these elections either. If I could, I wouldn't necessarily be voting based on business friendliness. In fact I don't support the Chase/CVS project. I just don't see an honest way to prevent it. I also don't oppose the Barlow but am convinced the negative traffic impact there will be many times worse than that of CVS/Chase. Yet few are willing to acknowledge this and many speak long and hard to justify the hypocrisy.
My concerns around this issue are more related to a sense of fairness.
I've seen very ugly and cheap looking construction get a pass because its politics are agreeable while that other project will never be accepted because of its politics.
This project will be loved because it provides extra much needed parking in the downtown while that project is unacceptable because it has too much parking.
This project will bring in needed business traffic to our community while that one will bring in too much traffic which will clog our streets.
The truth is that Sebastopol is growing and will never be the place it used to be, the place we fell in love with. But almost every other place I know that's worth living in is experiencing the same thing. We are trying to control the growth in a thoughtful way and I welcome all opinions on how to do this. But before we do anything we need to agree on a set of rules that apply equally to all. It is the inconsistent way that these rules are applied that I take exception to. I detest Chase but if the rules are disregarded for them then you and I are also at risk of being deprived of our rights should our politics rub someone the wrong way.
Webb Pierce
07-17-2012, 09:13 PM
Helen,
Suppose CVS/Chase allowed you to design the buildings in which they would do business. Would that be OK with you? Could the city then approve the project.
Suppose CVS/Chase allowed you to design the buildings in which they would do business. Would that be OK with you? Could the city then approve the project.
Hollyanna
07-17-2012, 11:57 PM
Update on tonight's public hearing:
After a lengthy presentation by representatives for the CVS and Chase developer (over 1 hour), public comments did not begin until just before 10:00 PM. Because this meeting went so late, Mayor Wilson announced that public comments will be allowed at the carryover hearing on on July 19th at the Sebastopol Community Center, beginning at 6:00 PM. This is very likely to be the last chance to make your voice heard. If you do not want to see this every time you head into Sebastopol from Santa Rosa, please show up and support our City Council and Design Review Board's rejection of this suburban style strip-mall project in our downtown. Click here (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/cvschase_plans_05.02.12.pdf) for a complete look at the current plans.
17988
After a lengthy presentation by representatives for the CVS and Chase developer (over 1 hour), public comments did not begin until just before 10:00 PM. Because this meeting went so late, Mayor Wilson announced that public comments will be allowed at the carryover hearing on on July 19th at the Sebastopol Community Center, beginning at 6:00 PM. This is very likely to be the last chance to make your voice heard. If you do not want to see this every time you head into Sebastopol from Santa Rosa, please show up and support our City Council and Design Review Board's rejection of this suburban style strip-mall project in our downtown. Click here (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/cvschase_plans_05.02.12.pdf) for a complete look at the current plans.
17988
eeeeeeow
07-18-2012, 12:45 AM
No one has talked about this yet. The first thing you'll see when you visit So much for our wine country destination.
Update on tonight's public hearing:
After a lengthy presentation by representatives for the CVS and Chase developer (over 1 hour), public comments did not begin until just before 10:00 PM. Because this meeting went so late, Mayor Wilson announced that public comments will be allowed at the carryover hearing on on July 19th at the Sebastopol Community Center, beginning at 6:00 PM. This is very likely to be the last chance to make your voice heard. If you do not want to see this every time you head into Sebastopol from Santa Rosa, please show up and support our City Council and Design Review Board's rejection of this suburban style strip-mall project in our downtown. Click here (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/cvschase_plans_05.02.12.pdf) for a complete look at the current plans.
17988
Update on tonight's public hearing:
After a lengthy presentation by representatives for the CVS and Chase developer (over 1 hour), public comments did not begin until just before 10:00 PM. Because this meeting went so late, Mayor Wilson announced that public comments will be allowed at the carryover hearing on on July 19th at the Sebastopol Community Center, beginning at 6:00 PM. This is very likely to be the last chance to make your voice heard. If you do not want to see this every time you head into Sebastopol from Santa Rosa, please show up and support our City Council and Design Review Board's rejection of this suburban style strip-mall project in our downtown. Click here (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/cvschase_plans_05.02.12.pdf) for a complete look at the current plans.
17988
Hollyanna
07-18-2012, 01:11 AM
Well, they did say they'd be adding some planters, so I guess it will be OK.
No one has talked about this yet. The first thing you'll see when you visit So much for our wine country destination.
No one has talked about this yet. The first thing you'll see when you visit So much for our wine country destination.
Shepherd
07-18-2012, 08:50 AM
The PD's report on last night's public hearing was just posted on the PD and follows. Over 100 were there. The public hearing itself did not start until 10 p.m., by which time many people had to leave, and last for only 1/2 hour, so it will continue tomorrow, starting at 6 p.m., being the only item on the agenda. Most of the time before then was taken up by the developers. Please join us at the Seb. Comm. Center to speak up.
The 2 members of the Design Review Board who spoke, Lynn and Bob, were terrific. Jonathan Greenberg and Thomas Morabito also spoke and were wonderful, as were the few other speakers for which there was time.
If you want to get a taste of what it would be like to have the U.S.'s largest bank and 18th largest corporation anchoring our downtown commons, read the following line from its wordy attorney quoted below, “The efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design needs to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for the developer, Armstrong Development Inc. of Sacramento." So now she is telling us what to do and not do in our small town. This is their arrogance and an insult to the democratic process. These bossy people are not welcome in our town.
We need you at this meeting. Please join us.
Shepherd
https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8107/201206081330.png
CVS developer appeals design to Sebastopol City Council
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120718/articles/120719603?p=all&tc=pgall
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 at 7:17 a.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.
A Sacramento developer appealed to the Sebastopol City Council on Tuesday to approve the design of its controversial proposal for a CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank branch at one of the city's busiest intersections.
“The efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design needs to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for the developer, Armstrong Development Inc. of Sacramento.
Armstrong is asking the City Council to overturn the Design Review Board's rejection of the project's latest design, contending the design meets all requirements and the board erred in its denial.
The issue was being heard Tuesday in a public hearing that, after three hours, was continued until 6 p.m. on Thursday.
Armstrong is proposing to a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank branch on 2.4 acres at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership, at a cost of $10 million.
CVS and Chase would move to the new location, which is one of Sebastopol's most prominent and heavily traveled intersections, from locations elsewhere in the city.
Critics, however, contend that even the latest design is still out of character with Sebastopol's small town Main Street.
“The overriding, fundamental problem is site layout,” said Lynn Deedler, a member of the Design Review Board, who spoke before the council during the public testimony Tuesday night. “It is a suburban-style shopping center designed for cars and located in the center of town.”
Robert Beauchamp, another Design Review Board member, said that while Armstrong made a lot of revisions with things like color and reduced the height, it hasn't solved the problem.
“It takes more than a brick to make a building,” Beauchamp said. “The height of the building is still a massive 26 feet, it is still a big box.”
The latest design by Sebastopol architect Kevin Kellogg was rejected by the Design Review Board on May 30, the board's third rejection.
After the second rejection, Armstrong appealed to the City Council, but was sent back to the board by the City Council with a list of changes the council wanted.
In response, Kellogg redesigned the project, varying the roof heights, substituting a brick facade for of quasi-industrial metal siding, replacing parking with an larger plaza, installing clear glass windows and making the drive way on Petaluma Avenue one way into the complex.
“We believe this design is compatible with the Sebastopol neighborhood,” Kellogg said.
Supporters of the project also said it will bring additional revenue to Sebastopol and create jobs.
“The little bit of information I have about this project is it is likely to bring jobs, increase taxes and property taxes,” said Zilda McCausland of Sebastopol.
The public hearing will be continued and the City Council is expected to make a decision at a special council meeting at 6 p.m. Thursday at the Community Center.
You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].
The 2 members of the Design Review Board who spoke, Lynn and Bob, were terrific. Jonathan Greenberg and Thomas Morabito also spoke and were wonderful, as were the few other speakers for which there was time.
If you want to get a taste of what it would be like to have the U.S.'s largest bank and 18th largest corporation anchoring our downtown commons, read the following line from its wordy attorney quoted below, “The efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design needs to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for the developer, Armstrong Development Inc. of Sacramento." So now she is telling us what to do and not do in our small town. This is their arrogance and an insult to the democratic process. These bossy people are not welcome in our town.
We need you at this meeting. Please join us.
Shepherd
https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8107/201206081330.png
CVS developer appeals design to Sebastopol City Council
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120718/articles/120719603?p=all&tc=pgall
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 at 7:17 a.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.
A Sacramento developer appealed to the Sebastopol City Council on Tuesday to approve the design of its controversial proposal for a CVS Pharmacy and Chase Bank branch at one of the city's busiest intersections.
“The efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design needs to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for the developer, Armstrong Development Inc. of Sacramento.
Armstrong is asking the City Council to overturn the Design Review Board's rejection of the project's latest design, contending the design meets all requirements and the board erred in its denial.
The issue was being heard Tuesday in a public hearing that, after three hours, was continued until 6 p.m. on Thursday.
Armstrong is proposing to a 14,576-square-foot pharmacy and 4,327-square-foot bank branch on 2.4 acres at the site of the vacant Pellini Chevrolet dealership, at a cost of $10 million.
CVS and Chase would move to the new location, which is one of Sebastopol's most prominent and heavily traveled intersections, from locations elsewhere in the city.
Critics, however, contend that even the latest design is still out of character with Sebastopol's small town Main Street.
“The overriding, fundamental problem is site layout,” said Lynn Deedler, a member of the Design Review Board, who spoke before the council during the public testimony Tuesday night. “It is a suburban-style shopping center designed for cars and located in the center of town.”
Robert Beauchamp, another Design Review Board member, said that while Armstrong made a lot of revisions with things like color and reduced the height, it hasn't solved the problem.
“It takes more than a brick to make a building,” Beauchamp said. “The height of the building is still a massive 26 feet, it is still a big box.”
The latest design by Sebastopol architect Kevin Kellogg was rejected by the Design Review Board on May 30, the board's third rejection.
After the second rejection, Armstrong appealed to the City Council, but was sent back to the board by the City Council with a list of changes the council wanted.
In response, Kellogg redesigned the project, varying the roof heights, substituting a brick facade for of quasi-industrial metal siding, replacing parking with an larger plaza, installing clear glass windows and making the drive way on Petaluma Avenue one way into the complex.
“We believe this design is compatible with the Sebastopol neighborhood,” Kellogg said.
Supporters of the project also said it will bring additional revenue to Sebastopol and create jobs.
“The little bit of information I have about this project is it is likely to bring jobs, increase taxes and property taxes,” said Zilda McCausland of Sebastopol.
The public hearing will be continued and the City Council is expected to make a decision at a special council meeting at 6 p.m. Thursday at the Community Center.
You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].
Hollyanna
07-18-2012, 06:41 PM
This is it guys. Tomorrow's public hearing is most likely to be your last opportunity to be heard.
Public comment on the CVS/Chase development has been carried over to a special session tomorrow night (Thursday, July 19) beginning at 6:00 PM at the Sebastopol Community Cultural Center at 390 Morris St.
The City Council is under tremendous pressure to approve this project. They desperately need community support to urge them to stay strong and uphold the DRBs rejection of the plan.
Here's how you can help if you feel that CVS and Chase do not belong in one of the most prominent locations in our town:
>>Attend the meeting and speak. If you are reading from a written copy, it's a good idea to bring one to leave with the City Council
>>Send an email to the City Council members. Copy City Planner Kenyon Webster and City Clerk Mary Gourley. Emails for all are below.
>>At the very minimum, send an email message with the following subject: "Reject CVS/Chase Appeal" and include your name and address in the body of the message.
>>Ask your friends to do the same.
Communicate your own thoughts as you wish, but please remember that this hearing is only concerned with the decision to reject the CVS/Chase appeal. I have some suggested points to share if you want to send me a private message. I do not want to show our hand in this public forum.
Send your emails to:
Guy Wilson, Mayor: [email protected]
Michael Kyes, Vice Mayor: [email protected]
Kathleen Shaffer: [email protected]
Sarah Glade Gurney: [email protected]
Patrick Slayter: [email protected]
CC to Kenyon Webster, City Planner: [email protected]
([email protected])CC to Mary Gourley, City Clerk: [email protected]
Public comment on the CVS/Chase development has been carried over to a special session tomorrow night (Thursday, July 19) beginning at 6:00 PM at the Sebastopol Community Cultural Center at 390 Morris St.
The City Council is under tremendous pressure to approve this project. They desperately need community support to urge them to stay strong and uphold the DRBs rejection of the plan.
Here's how you can help if you feel that CVS and Chase do not belong in one of the most prominent locations in our town:
>>Attend the meeting and speak. If you are reading from a written copy, it's a good idea to bring one to leave with the City Council
>>Send an email to the City Council members. Copy City Planner Kenyon Webster and City Clerk Mary Gourley. Emails for all are below.
>>At the very minimum, send an email message with the following subject: "Reject CVS/Chase Appeal" and include your name and address in the body of the message.
>>Ask your friends to do the same.
Communicate your own thoughts as you wish, but please remember that this hearing is only concerned with the decision to reject the CVS/Chase appeal. I have some suggested points to share if you want to send me a private message. I do not want to show our hand in this public forum.
Send your emails to:
Guy Wilson, Mayor: [email protected]
Michael Kyes, Vice Mayor: [email protected]
Kathleen Shaffer: [email protected]
Sarah Glade Gurney: [email protected]
Patrick Slayter: [email protected]
CC to Kenyon Webster, City Planner: [email protected]
([email protected])CC to Mary Gourley, City Clerk: [email protected]
Barry
07-18-2012, 07:15 PM
Thanks for posting the mockup with the big CVS sign,eeeeeeow, which conveniently left off of the prior mock up. I sure wish new building permits and use permits would have to specify where all signage would be , including in-window temporary flyers, and include that in their renderings.
No one has talked about this yet. The first thing you'll see when you visit So much for our wine country destination.
No one has talked about this yet. The first thing you'll see when you visit So much for our wine country destination.
News Radio Tony
07-19-2012, 08:54 AM
The architect, Kevin Kellogg, talked with us on KSRO this morning, if anyone is interested. He seems confident that this is going to happen.
Link to interview:
https://www.ksro.com/Programs/KSROAMNews/Interviews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10405625
Link to interview:
https://www.ksro.com/Programs/KSROAMNews/Interviews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10405625
Shepherd
07-19-2012, 09:33 AM
It will happen over our civil disobedience, boycotts and bad local & national publicity. If you would like a point of view other than that of a member of the development team, you can reach me at (707) 829-8185. Shepherd
Hollyanna
07-19-2012, 10:14 AM
A member of the community with a different take on the matter is scheduled to be interviewed this afternoon. Stay tuned for details.
The architect, Kevin Kellogg, talked with us on KSRO this morning, if anyone is interested. He seems confident that this is going to happen.
Link to interview:
https://www.ksro.com/Programs/KSROAMNews/Interviews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10405625
The architect, Kevin Kellogg, talked with us on KSRO this morning, if anyone is interested. He seems confident that this is going to happen.
Link to interview:
https://www.ksro.com/Programs/KSROAMNews/Interviews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10405625
Hollyanna
07-19-2012, 03:04 PM
John Eder will be a guest on KSRO 1350 AM's The Drive with Steve Jaxon in the 4:00 hour.
Barry
07-19-2012, 03:39 PM
See a new article by Jonathan Greenberg that asks? Is the Sebastopol Planning Director Rigging the CVS/Chase Project? (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?91716-Article-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project&p=155009#post155009)
Please post your comments about the article and that particular topic on that thread. Thanks!
Please post your comments about the article and that particular topic on that thread. Thanks!
dominus
07-19-2012, 03:54 PM
We are being fiercely tested in a world which has little concept of stewardship.
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
News Radio Tony
07-19-2012, 03:55 PM
Prof. Bliss,
Okay, you're on. I have a spot at 8:15a.m. tomorrow, station number is (707) 636-1350, probably Curtiss Kim will be interviewing. I called but you did not answer, so, if you see this post, just respond and it will email me.
Maybe if one of you Waccos see Shepherd today, or know a better way to reach him, you can let him know.
Thanks!
It will happen over our civil disobedience, boycotts and bad local & national publicity. If you would like a point of view other than that of a member of the development team, you can reach me at (707) 829-8185. Shepherd
Okay, you're on. I have a spot at 8:15a.m. tomorrow, station number is (707) 636-1350, probably Curtiss Kim will be interviewing. I called but you did not answer, so, if you see this post, just respond and it will email me.
Maybe if one of you Waccos see Shepherd today, or know a better way to reach him, you can let him know.
Thanks!
It will happen over our civil disobedience, boycotts and bad local & national publicity. If you would like a point of view other than that of a member of the development team, you can reach me at (707) 829-8185. Shepherd
Hollyanna
07-20-2012, 06:13 AM
Recap of last night's meeting:
Public comment lasted for 3 hours and concluded at 10:30. This was followed by some comments by the CVS/Chase development team and then questions by the City Council. I left after about 15 minutes of that, so I don't know how much longer it went on.
Tally: 61 speakers, 43 urging to deny the appeal ("no to CVS"), 17 urging that it be granted ("yes to CVS"), 1 that I couldn't determine.
Mayor Wilson announced that the City Council needed additional time to review all of the emails that they received on the matter and will defer the decision until the next CC meeting on Aug. 7.
Here's a link to the article in the PD.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120719/ARTICLES/120719485?p=2&tc=pg
Public comment lasted for 3 hours and concluded at 10:30. This was followed by some comments by the CVS/Chase development team and then questions by the City Council. I left after about 15 minutes of that, so I don't know how much longer it went on.
Tally: 61 speakers, 43 urging to deny the appeal ("no to CVS"), 17 urging that it be granted ("yes to CVS"), 1 that I couldn't determine.
Mayor Wilson announced that the City Council needed additional time to review all of the emails that they received on the matter and will defer the decision until the next CC meeting on Aug. 7.
Here's a link to the article in the PD.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120719/ARTICLES/120719485?p=2&tc=pg
Beverly Schenck
07-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Corruption in this county is rampant, back rooms deals and pay outs will continue to dictate the policies of Sonoma county. From the planning commission, supervisors and the courts. Big business will continue to control what is to be built and where. Don't fool yourselves this project will be built, boycotts and notional publicity only last as long as peoples memories, not very long. We need to restructure our planning dept and current policies makers, and get big business out of our local government, and make Sonoma county a better place to live. .
Howard
07-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Since the corruption, etc. is so rampant; you must have some first hand knowledge of these activities. In my mind, rampant would equate to 100's of times (please correct me if I've understated). Please provide your top three specific examples of when any of the appointed or elected officials you mentioned received a pay out or received some other remuneration. I'd think you'd want the DA to know unless you think she's in on it also.
Howard
Corruption in this county is rampant, back rooms deals and pay outs will continue to dictate the policies of Sonoma county. From the planning commission, supervisors and the courts. Big business will continue to control what is to be built and where. Don't fool yourselves this project will be built, boycotts and notional publicity only last as long as peoples memories, not very long. We need to restructure our planning dept and current policies makers, and get big business out of our local government, and make Sonoma county a better place to live. .
Howard
Corruption in this county is rampant, back rooms deals and pay outs will continue to dictate the policies of Sonoma county. From the planning commission, supervisors and the courts. Big business will continue to control what is to be built and where. Don't fool yourselves this project will be built, boycotts and notional publicity only last as long as peoples memories, not very long. We need to restructure our planning dept and current policies makers, and get big business out of our local government, and make Sonoma county a better place to live. .
Helen Shane
07-20-2012, 05:27 PM
Dear Howard: I know you don't like to spread this around, but it was you who first awakened me to problems of land use in Sonoma County some 20 years ago, and got me interested in local politics.
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
Since the corruption, etc. is so rampant; you must have some first hand knowledge of these activities. In my mind, rampant would equate to 100's of times (please correct me if I've understated). Please provide your top three specific examples of when any of the appointed or elected officials you mentioned received a pay out or received some other remuneration. I'd think you'd want the DA to know unless you think she's in on it also.
Howard
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
Since the corruption, etc. is so rampant; you must have some first hand knowledge of these activities. In my mind, rampant would equate to 100's of times (please correct me if I've understated). Please provide your top three specific examples of when any of the appointed or elected officials you mentioned received a pay out or received some other remuneration. I'd think you'd want the DA to know unless you think she's in on it also.
Howard
Barry
07-20-2012, 07:17 PM
Dear Howard: I know you don't like to spread this around, but it was you who first awakened me to problems of land use in Sonoma County some 20 years ago, and got me interested in local politics.
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
While I love seeing the warmth exchanged between you and our esteemed former honorable Mayor, Howard, I believe he was baiting Beverly Schenck, instead. :waccosun:
I presume Beverly's comment was in reply to the recent article we published by Jonathan Greenberg (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project) questioning Kenyon Webster's impartiality on the CVS project. I want to point out that there was no accusation, at least in the original article (it was edited today), of anything approaching corruption. But rather it was questioning whether Mr. Webster was acting completely impartially or not, without calling his motives for that into question.
I imagine I'll, and perhaps Jonathan and many of you, will have more to say about all this, especially now that the issue remains unresolved for several more weeks!
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
While I love seeing the warmth exchanged between you and our esteemed former honorable Mayor, Howard, I believe he was baiting Beverly Schenck, instead. :waccosun:
I presume Beverly's comment was in reply to the recent article we published by Jonathan Greenberg (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project) questioning Kenyon Webster's impartiality on the CVS project. I want to point out that there was no accusation, at least in the original article (it was edited today), of anything approaching corruption. But rather it was questioning whether Mr. Webster was acting completely impartially or not, without calling his motives for that into question.
I imagine I'll, and perhaps Jonathan and many of you, will have more to say about all this, especially now that the issue remains unresolved for several more weeks!
Magick
07-21-2012, 09:20 AM
The following is what I said at the City Council hearing on Thursday....I hope you share my sentiments and if you do let the council and the Pellinis know...in the spirit of consensus, Magick
You all know I have opposed this project, Tonight I want to offer a different perspective. So far this has divided us I believe it can unite us.
Small towns like our own are doing everything they can to stay afloat, more than anything else we need to find our common ground as a community and find ways to mend fences and build alliances.
Over and over again, we have found ourselves divided when the possibility of a purchase and development of land has arisen.
I am asking everyone here tonight to consider a way to build bridges across this divide.
We are facing two challenges, first it is important to acknowledge the contribution the Pellini’s have made to Sebastopol, coming out of a time when what was good for business was good for America it is easy to understand that private property was considered the paramount consideration. And our society’s understanding of what makes a sustainable community has changed. Our General Plan describes how we want to grow together. There’s an emphasis now on making communities sustainable and supporting local businesses
I can understand the reasoning of those who support the sale and development of this land to CVS/Chase.
The Pellinis want security and appreciation for being good citizens.
They deserve that.
What if we as a community worked together to find the right steward for this crossroad in the center of our town? What if the core project helped create an invitation to prospective buyers and public relations folks helped promote it. What if we all used our connections and put out the word. We could put up designs at the site in an artistic way that would beautify that corner now.
What if we ended the battle and found the common values we share. We all want clean air, less traffic; a town that supports small, locally-owned businesses that will help us thrive and be a place for future generations.
The second challenge is to support our council as they take on this difficult decision and recognize their dilemma about how to fulfill the mandate of our general plan and to carefully consider the wisdom and expertise of Design review board.
Everyone on the Council wants to serve this town and its people. They do not want to be glared at by either side. They would like to make a decision in which all of our concerns are honored.
With this solution in mind they could deny the project and we could all roll up our sleeves and get to work.
It is not too late, and I hope the folks from Armstrong, CVS and Chase will recognize the courage of our small town to own self-determination.
Right now with the bank disasters, foreclosures, the drought across America, the privatization of our schools, parks and post offices we need to have each other’s backs and not become bitterly divided.
A house divided cannot stand, we are in this together, we need each other.
This solution is my offering of an olive branch to bring us together.
Another world is possible and it will be created community by community as we leave a world where we are constantly pitted against each other, to a world where all members and the natural world are living in harmony once again.
May it be so!
You all know I have opposed this project, Tonight I want to offer a different perspective. So far this has divided us I believe it can unite us.
Small towns like our own are doing everything they can to stay afloat, more than anything else we need to find our common ground as a community and find ways to mend fences and build alliances.
Over and over again, we have found ourselves divided when the possibility of a purchase and development of land has arisen.
I am asking everyone here tonight to consider a way to build bridges across this divide.
We are facing two challenges, first it is important to acknowledge the contribution the Pellini’s have made to Sebastopol, coming out of a time when what was good for business was good for America it is easy to understand that private property was considered the paramount consideration. And our society’s understanding of what makes a sustainable community has changed. Our General Plan describes how we want to grow together. There’s an emphasis now on making communities sustainable and supporting local businesses
I can understand the reasoning of those who support the sale and development of this land to CVS/Chase.
The Pellinis want security and appreciation for being good citizens.
They deserve that.
What if we as a community worked together to find the right steward for this crossroad in the center of our town? What if the core project helped create an invitation to prospective buyers and public relations folks helped promote it. What if we all used our connections and put out the word. We could put up designs at the site in an artistic way that would beautify that corner now.
What if we ended the battle and found the common values we share. We all want clean air, less traffic; a town that supports small, locally-owned businesses that will help us thrive and be a place for future generations.
The second challenge is to support our council as they take on this difficult decision and recognize their dilemma about how to fulfill the mandate of our general plan and to carefully consider the wisdom and expertise of Design review board.
Everyone on the Council wants to serve this town and its people. They do not want to be glared at by either side. They would like to make a decision in which all of our concerns are honored.
With this solution in mind they could deny the project and we could all roll up our sleeves and get to work.
It is not too late, and I hope the folks from Armstrong, CVS and Chase will recognize the courage of our small town to own self-determination.
Right now with the bank disasters, foreclosures, the drought across America, the privatization of our schools, parks and post offices we need to have each other’s backs and not become bitterly divided.
A house divided cannot stand, we are in this together, we need each other.
This solution is my offering of an olive branch to bring us together.
Another world is possible and it will be created community by community as we leave a world where we are constantly pitted against each other, to a world where all members and the natural world are living in harmony once again.
May it be so!
photolite
07-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I see no baiting here. I see a reasonable mind responding to hysterical rantings. When such outrageous allegations are made, which occurs here all too often, it begs "put up or shut up". Howard, being the gentleman that he is, was more delicate in his phrasing.
Dear Howard: I know you don't like to spread this around, but it was you who first awakened me to problems of land use in Sonoma County some 20 years ago, and got me interested in local politics.
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
Dear Howard: I know you don't like to spread this around, but it was you who first awakened me to problems of land use in Sonoma County some 20 years ago, and got me interested in local politics.
You now must have better things to do with your time than to try to bait me. :wink2:
Fondly reminiscent :heart:
Helen Shane
Shepherd
07-21-2012, 10:51 AM
The attempt by Chase/CVS/Armstrong to anchor Sebastopol's downtown commons has implications far beyond this one town.
Small town Sebastopol is on the front-lines of a national battle against Chase Bank, CVS Pharmacy, and Armstrong Development. I was glad that a couple of speakers on July 19 from Petaluma mentioned the similar struggles they are engaging in against Chase and CVS.
"From one store in a small town," brags Armstrong on its California Regional Office website, "we now develop CVS pharmacies in nine states. We've constructed over 400 locations, with more than 150 sties in the development pipeline." To Armstrong, Sebastopol is simply a "development pipeline."
"In the next five years, we anticipate completing retail developments valued at over a half billion dollars," brags Armstrong. "The CVS effort is our entry point for additional development." Down the street from the current two and a half acres that CVS/Chase covet is an abandoned lumberyard--also an opportunity to lenghten the intended suburban strip mall and end Sebastopol's small town charm.
With its strong-arm tactics, Armstrong brags that It can "quickly locate and open multiple sites." So it must be a big disappointment to them that they have been unable in over two years to get permission to invade our small town. The next and perhaps final City Council meeting is scheduled for August 7, starting at 6 p.m. We welcome residents from all over Sonoma County and elsewhere to see if the CC is willing to uphold the decisions by the Design Review Board and Planning Commission to reject this development.
In my interview now scheduled for Monday morning at 7:45 on KSRO radio I plan to speak to these larger issues. Sebastopol is experiencing what farmer/author/poet Wendell Berry talks about in his writing in terms of threats to agrarian culture and local economies.
Small town Sebastopol is on the front-lines of a national battle against Chase Bank, CVS Pharmacy, and Armstrong Development. I was glad that a couple of speakers on July 19 from Petaluma mentioned the similar struggles they are engaging in against Chase and CVS.
"From one store in a small town," brags Armstrong on its California Regional Office website, "we now develop CVS pharmacies in nine states. We've constructed over 400 locations, with more than 150 sties in the development pipeline." To Armstrong, Sebastopol is simply a "development pipeline."
"In the next five years, we anticipate completing retail developments valued at over a half billion dollars," brags Armstrong. "The CVS effort is our entry point for additional development." Down the street from the current two and a half acres that CVS/Chase covet is an abandoned lumberyard--also an opportunity to lenghten the intended suburban strip mall and end Sebastopol's small town charm.
With its strong-arm tactics, Armstrong brags that It can "quickly locate and open multiple sites." So it must be a big disappointment to them that they have been unable in over two years to get permission to invade our small town. The next and perhaps final City Council meeting is scheduled for August 7, starting at 6 p.m. We welcome residents from all over Sonoma County and elsewhere to see if the CC is willing to uphold the decisions by the Design Review Board and Planning Commission to reject this development.
In my interview now scheduled for Monday morning at 7:45 on KSRO radio I plan to speak to these larger issues. Sebastopol is experiencing what farmer/author/poet Wendell Berry talks about in his writing in terms of threats to agrarian culture and local economies.
theindependenteye
07-21-2012, 11:34 AM
"From one store in a small town," brags Armstrong on its California Regional Office website, "we now develop CVS pharmacies in nine states. We've constructed over 400 locations, with more than 150 sties in the development pipeline."
Shepherd, I like your typo. Whether it's a sty in the eye or a pigsty in the barnyard, the plural is sties, and they ain't pretty.
And I appreciate being guided to Armstrong's development site. It makes crystal clear that, as you say, the issue extends far beyond what retail businesses have the right to acquire the Pellini property. The soulless corporate behemoth is well-expressed in the design, which reminds me of a prison with a supersized parking lot.
OK, this is a high-ticket valuable property, privately owned. So was the old redwood grove near Occidental, and it took a huge (multi-year) court battle to halt the "harvesting" of these magnificent beings. The validity of a proper EIR and CEQA won the day, and The Grove of the Old Trees is a mini-Muir Woods close at hand.
For now. The family is filing another THP, a timber harvest plan. It ain't over yet.
https://www.sfgate.com/green/article/Groups-Try-to-Save-Grove-of-Redwoods-2-million-2771471.php
What would it take to develop a consortium and a plan that would reward the Pellinis financially, develop something in keeping with our own local flavor, and keep the profits in the community? If we accept that in this reamed economy the only ones with the money to do anything big are the ones who reamed us in the first place -- well, what then?
Elizabeth Fuller
Shepherd, I like your typo. Whether it's a sty in the eye or a pigsty in the barnyard, the plural is sties, and they ain't pretty.
And I appreciate being guided to Armstrong's development site. It makes crystal clear that, as you say, the issue extends far beyond what retail businesses have the right to acquire the Pellini property. The soulless corporate behemoth is well-expressed in the design, which reminds me of a prison with a supersized parking lot.
OK, this is a high-ticket valuable property, privately owned. So was the old redwood grove near Occidental, and it took a huge (multi-year) court battle to halt the "harvesting" of these magnificent beings. The validity of a proper EIR and CEQA won the day, and The Grove of the Old Trees is a mini-Muir Woods close at hand.
For now. The family is filing another THP, a timber harvest plan. It ain't over yet.
https://www.sfgate.com/green/article/Groups-Try-to-Save-Grove-of-Redwoods-2-million-2771471.php
What would it take to develop a consortium and a plan that would reward the Pellinis financially, develop something in keeping with our own local flavor, and keep the profits in the community? If we accept that in this reamed economy the only ones with the money to do anything big are the ones who reamed us in the first place -- well, what then?
Elizabeth Fuller
dominus
07-21-2012, 11:43 AM
This isn't a matter of CVS & Chase opening up new locations, they're here already. The DRB has turned down this project because it doesn't meet the aspects for downtown design. Instead, Armstrong (pardon the pun) brought in their attorneys to drive home the point that they will do what is ever necessary to get this project approved. I can't understand why an EIR isn't required, it should be. An EIR would determine that this project will result in a lot more traffic and possible accidents. That's inevitable. Why has this project gotten so far without an EIR?
theindependenteye
07-21-2012, 01:27 PM
CORRECTION TO LINK: Google is fubar. I went back and checked my link to the sfgate article, which is actually from 2000, and Google not only headlines it as June 29, 2012, but all other similar articles have incorrect dates. Sorry 'bout that . . . no current threat to the grove, AFAIK. -- Elizabeth
Peace Voyager
07-22-2012, 12:19 PM
:heart: As she often does, Magic spoke for me with these words; and she did it well.
Though several members of the public did not speak for me, when they were rude to her when her 3 minutes were up; and killed the wonderful spirit Magic had filled the air with. It was one of working together for the ideal solution.
Now; because of Thursday's meeting and the public process; new investors are willing to make other options available.
Let's see how we can put our minds around manifesting that. Chocolate, and organic produce facilities as just a start! How about a Green Garage, to kick start putting our community's patents and services focused on Sustainability further into motion; enabling healthy growth for our local economy?
:goorganic: :dcngbrocli: :gravapple: :banana:
In Peace,
Colleen Fernald
:waccosun: Candidate for PEACE!
:rainbow: Sebastopol City Council 2012
The following is what I said at the City Council hearing on Thursday....I hope you share my sentiments and if you do let the council and the Pellinis know...in the spirit of consensus, Magick
You all know I have opposed this project, Tonight I want to offer a different perspective. So far this has divided us I believe it can unite us.
Small towns like our own are doing everything they can to stay afloat, more than anything else we need to find our common ground as a community and find ways to mend fences and build alliances.
Over and over again, we have found ourselves divided when the possibility of a purchase and development of land has arisen.
I am asking everyone here tonight to consider a way to build bridges across this divide.
We are facing two challenges, first it is important to acknowledge the contribution the Pellini’s have made to Sebastopol, coming out of a time when what was good for business was good for America it is easy to understand that private property was considered the paramount consideration. And our society’s understanding of what makes a sustainable community has changed. Our General Plan describes how we want to grow together. There’s an emphasis now on making communities sustainable and supporting local businesses
I can understand the reasoning of those who support the sale and development of this land to CVS/Chase.
The Pellinis want security and appreciation for being good citizens.
They deserve that.
What if we as a community worked together to find the right steward for this crossroad in the center of our town? What if the core project helped create an invitation to prospective buyers and public relations folks helped promote it. What if we all used our connections and put out the word. We could put up designs at the site in an artistic way that would beautify that corner now.
What if we ended the battle and found the common values we share. We all want clean air, less traffic; a town that supports small, locally-owned businesses that will help us thrive and be a place for future generations.
The second challenge is to support our council as they take on this difficult decision and recognize their dilemma about how to fulfill the mandate of our general plan and to carefully consider the wisdom and expertise of Design review board.
Everyone on the Council wants to serve this town and its people. They do not want to be glared at by either side. They would like to make a decision in which all of our concerns are honored.
With this solution in mind they could deny the project and we could all roll up our sleeves and get to work.
It is not too late, and I hope the folks from Armstrong, CVS and Chase will recognize the courage of our small town to own self-determination.
Right now with the bank disasters, foreclosures, the drought across America, the privatization of our schools, parks and post offices we need to have each other’s backs and not become bitterly divided.
A house divided cannot stand, we are in this together, we need each other.
This solution is my offering of an olive branch to bring us together.
Another world is possible and it will be created community by community as we leave a world where we are constantly pitted against each other, to a world where all members and the natural world are living in harmony once again.
May it be so!
Though several members of the public did not speak for me, when they were rude to her when her 3 minutes were up; and killed the wonderful spirit Magic had filled the air with. It was one of working together for the ideal solution.
Now; because of Thursday's meeting and the public process; new investors are willing to make other options available.
Let's see how we can put our minds around manifesting that. Chocolate, and organic produce facilities as just a start! How about a Green Garage, to kick start putting our community's patents and services focused on Sustainability further into motion; enabling healthy growth for our local economy?
:goorganic: :dcngbrocli: :gravapple: :banana:
In Peace,
Colleen Fernald
:waccosun: Candidate for PEACE!
:rainbow: Sebastopol City Council 2012
The following is what I said at the City Council hearing on Thursday....I hope you share my sentiments and if you do let the council and the Pellinis know...in the spirit of consensus, Magick
You all know I have opposed this project, Tonight I want to offer a different perspective. So far this has divided us I believe it can unite us.
Small towns like our own are doing everything they can to stay afloat, more than anything else we need to find our common ground as a community and find ways to mend fences and build alliances.
Over and over again, we have found ourselves divided when the possibility of a purchase and development of land has arisen.
I am asking everyone here tonight to consider a way to build bridges across this divide.
We are facing two challenges, first it is important to acknowledge the contribution the Pellini’s have made to Sebastopol, coming out of a time when what was good for business was good for America it is easy to understand that private property was considered the paramount consideration. And our society’s understanding of what makes a sustainable community has changed. Our General Plan describes how we want to grow together. There’s an emphasis now on making communities sustainable and supporting local businesses
I can understand the reasoning of those who support the sale and development of this land to CVS/Chase.
The Pellinis want security and appreciation for being good citizens.
They deserve that.
What if we as a community worked together to find the right steward for this crossroad in the center of our town? What if the core project helped create an invitation to prospective buyers and public relations folks helped promote it. What if we all used our connections and put out the word. We could put up designs at the site in an artistic way that would beautify that corner now.
What if we ended the battle and found the common values we share. We all want clean air, less traffic; a town that supports small, locally-owned businesses that will help us thrive and be a place for future generations.
The second challenge is to support our council as they take on this difficult decision and recognize their dilemma about how to fulfill the mandate of our general plan and to carefully consider the wisdom and expertise of Design review board.
Everyone on the Council wants to serve this town and its people. They do not want to be glared at by either side. They would like to make a decision in which all of our concerns are honored.
With this solution in mind they could deny the project and we could all roll up our sleeves and get to work.
It is not too late, and I hope the folks from Armstrong, CVS and Chase will recognize the courage of our small town to own self-determination.
Right now with the bank disasters, foreclosures, the drought across America, the privatization of our schools, parks and post offices we need to have each other’s backs and not become bitterly divided.
A house divided cannot stand, we are in this together, we need each other.
This solution is my offering of an olive branch to bring us together.
Another world is possible and it will be created community by community as we leave a world where we are constantly pitted against each other, to a world where all members and the natural world are living in harmony once again.
May it be so!
Hollyanna
07-22-2012, 04:07 PM
We don’t advance our cause when we are ill prepared or discourteous. For the most part, the people who spoke in support of rejecting Armstrong’s appeal at last week’s hearings presented themselves well and were polite to those who didn’t share their point of view, but I was embarrassed when members of our “side” insisted on going overtime. Unless there are special circumstances (audience interruption, equipment malfunctions, a disability that slows the speaker down, etc.), none of us (on either side) are entitled to extra time.
I’m sure that the speakers didn’t feel this way, but when a person insists on extra time, it’s as if they’re saying, “The rules don’t apply to me. I am more important than you are, and what I have to say is more valuable than what you have to say.” It’s really unfortunate when people who have some great points dilute them (and lose the audience) by ending their presentation with a squabble over about being allotted extra time.
Each speaker gets 3 minutes to make a case. It’s not like we don’t know this going in. If this is something that we really care about, we should be willing to put in a little extra effort to prepare, practice, and have one short, powerful closing remark ready to use in case time runs out, so at least the main points will have been made. I realize that we’re passionate about this and passion is great, but I’d like to suggest that we don’t let it get in the way of presenting reasoned, thoughtful and concise arguments. We’d be taken a lot more seriously.
I’m sure that the speakers didn’t feel this way, but when a person insists on extra time, it’s as if they’re saying, “The rules don’t apply to me. I am more important than you are, and what I have to say is more valuable than what you have to say.” It’s really unfortunate when people who have some great points dilute them (and lose the audience) by ending their presentation with a squabble over about being allotted extra time.
Each speaker gets 3 minutes to make a case. It’s not like we don’t know this going in. If this is something that we really care about, we should be willing to put in a little extra effort to prepare, practice, and have one short, powerful closing remark ready to use in case time runs out, so at least the main points will have been made. I realize that we’re passionate about this and passion is great, but I’d like to suggest that we don’t let it get in the way of presenting reasoned, thoughtful and concise arguments. We’d be taken a lot more seriously.
Shepherd
07-22-2012, 05:11 PM
Small Town Sebastopol —
Frontline Battle Against
Chase Bank/CVS Pharmacy/Armstrong Developer
By Shepherd Bliss
WaccoBB.net
18071Small town Sebastopol residents in Northern California have been waging a fierce David vs. Goliath struggle against the powerful Chase Bank, CVS Pharmacy, and Armstrong Development for over two years. The implications of this struggle extend beyond this one town, as big business continues to seek to expand its wealth.
Attention in Sebastopol has been on Chase, the U.S.’s largest bank, and CVS, its 18th largest mega-corporation. They propose to anchor the downtown commons with what opponents describe as “a suburban strip mall.” Armstrong has been representing the real estate needs of Chase/CVS in Sebastopol, as well as elsewhere around the country, and needs a close study.
“Efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design need to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for Armstrong at a July 17 City Council meeting, according to the local daily Press Democrat. Sebastopol’s Design Review Board (DRB) had already rejected the proposal twice, most recently by a 4-1 vote.
Armstrong’s attorney threatened and bullied nearly 200 residents of the town of 7,300 to shut up and take orders from Armstrong/Chase/CVS. She was apparently trying to subvert the democratic process of one-person one-vote and replace it by the power of big business.
Residents objected to someone coming from outside to tell them how to run their agrarian town, which exemplifies what would be likely to happen if the proposal is approved. The Planning Commission and City Council (CC) had also previously rejected the proposal for not conforming to the town’s General Plan, as well as design and planning regulations.
The reason the proposal is still on the table is the threat by the deep pockets of Chase and CVS to sue the town and its people. Sebastopudlians talk about fighting for “the heart and soul” of their town and “not selling it to the highest outside bidder.” They discuss tactics such as boycotts and civil disobedience to block Chase/CVS from dominating their charming downtown and ushering in other mega-corporations.
Opponents implore the CC to wait until a better offer, which conforms to the town’s regulations, comes along. Another nearby large development, the Barlow Project, has received substantial local support because it will provide spaces for many local businesses. The money would thus circulate locally rather than leave the area. The downtown already has enough credit unions and local banks, as well as a pharmacy.
Though the July 17 meeting that started at 6 p.m. was advertised as a “public hearing,” the developers talked for two hours. It was 10 p.m. by the time the patient public was allowed to speak; most people had gone home.
The hearing convened again on July 19, where 43 people spoke against the development and 17 for it. Those supporting the development were mainly older friends of the family seeking to sell its two and a half acre abandoned car dealership. The opponents included people from their early 20s into their 70s. Among them were half a dozen activists from Occupy Sebastopol, which still maintains a tent in the town square and organizes ongoing protests against Chase/CVS as one of its main objectives.
Activists complained that the development is car-centric, mainly a large parking lot with only two isolated stores, rather than pedestrian and bike friendly. They noted that the drive-through component would create greater pollution in the downtown commons and increase greenhouse gas emissions, thus worsening chaotic climate change. A study reported that traffic would be increased by at least 2000 trips a day in the county’s most clogged intersection. This would not be good for emergency vehicles, pedestrians, or bikers.
The next and perhaps final meeting on the proposal will be August 7, when the Council has indicated it will make a decision. After that it is expected that whichever side does not prevail may sue.
“Sacramento is the newest regional office of Armstrong,” according to its California Regional Office website. “California is being targeted for a saturation of CVS stores,” writes Yvette Williams, a member of Sebastopol’s Planning Commission, which has rejected the development.
The DRB was willing to work with Armstrong. However, it has basically ignored the feedback that it gets from the majority of citizens and town officials, only making a few cosmetic changes. Armstrong appears to be trying to strong-arm its case, preferring a litigious route to get what it wants.
“In the next five years, we anticipate completing retail development values at over half a billion dollars,” Armstrong’s website brags. “From one store in a small town, we now develop CVS pharmacies in nine states. We’ve constructed over 400 locations with more than 150 sites in the development pipeline. A similar development program exists with JP Morgan Chase Bank, with many sites in development across our region.” Chase and CVS are frequent partners around the U.S., as well as in paying millions of dollars in fines for illegal business practices.
Many federal regulators currently are investigating Chase for its CEO Jamie Dimon originally announced losses of around $2 billion dollars in June and then admitted in July that they were $6 billion or more. Chase is one of the big five banks responsible for the recent fall of the American economy. CVS has also paid millions of dollars in fines for failing to clean-up toxic wastes and other deadly crimes.
Armstrong adds, “We have long standing valued relationships with some of the national’s leading retailers that include Wal-Mart, Lowe’s Home Improvement Center and Target.” So if a city wants to be dominated by long-term relationships with such mega-corporations, Armstrong would be a good developer to hire.
But most Sebastopudlians have settled in a small town with a charming downtown commons because they prefer its agrarian flavor. A larger nearby city, Rohnert Park, has selected a corporate model, which has no town center where people can gather.
Sebastopol is the center of what is called the West County, with some 50,000 residents, of the coastal Sonoma County. It used to be known more by its natural description, the “Redwood Empire,” which many locals still call it. However, the commercial designation is now “Wine Country,” since it has the most lucrative wine industry in the U.S.
Armstrong’s website boasts that it can “quickly locate and open multiple sites.” Yet they have had to spend more than two years already and still do not have an approval in tiny Sebastopol, known as a “green” community with commitments to sustainability.
This controversy has already become a major issue in the Nov. 6 election, where two seats on the City Council are available. Of the four viable candidates, two have come out against the Chase/CVS development—businessmen Robert Jacob and John Eder. They support local business, rather than big business, which drains money out of the county.
Council member Kathleen Shaffer seeks to retain her seat. “Her support for the project from the outset has limited her ability to serve our city,” writes Jonathan Greenberg on the local waccobb.net website. Greenberg has reported for “Forbes,” “New York” and other publications and is CEO of a local communications company. He suggests that Shaffer not vote on this issue.
Two activists from the nearby Occupy Petaluma testified at the July 19 meeting. They indicated problems with CVS in their city and are also mounting a campaign against Chase. “If Chase goes ahead with this development in Sebastopol,” commented Amy Hanks of Occupy Petaluma, “we could target their stores around the county and develop boycotts to hurt their businesses. If we are displeased by their behavior, we can make them feel that displeasure where it hurts -- in their cash register.”
In nearby Santa Rosa--the largest city in Sonoma County with some 150,000 residents-- Occupy Santa Rosa has had an ongoing campaign against the big banks, including Wells Fargo, which is based nearby in San Francisco.
Provincial, backwater Sonoma County, on the edges of the metropolitan San Francisco Bay Area, is responding to the phrase “Big Banks Got Bailed Out. We Got Sold Out.” Some of its residents are fighting back against big banks and mega-corporations that feel they merit personhood.
(Shepherd Bliss teaches college, has operated a farm for the last 20 years, and can be reached at [email protected].)
Frontline Battle Against
Chase Bank/CVS Pharmacy/Armstrong Developer
By Shepherd Bliss
WaccoBB.net
18071Small town Sebastopol residents in Northern California have been waging a fierce David vs. Goliath struggle against the powerful Chase Bank, CVS Pharmacy, and Armstrong Development for over two years. The implications of this struggle extend beyond this one town, as big business continues to seek to expand its wealth.
Attention in Sebastopol has been on Chase, the U.S.’s largest bank, and CVS, its 18th largest mega-corporation. They propose to anchor the downtown commons with what opponents describe as “a suburban strip mall.” Armstrong has been representing the real estate needs of Chase/CVS in Sebastopol, as well as elsewhere around the country, and needs a close study.
“Efforts to stop this project with the denial of the design need to stop tonight,” said Michelle Moore, an attorney for Armstrong at a July 17 City Council meeting, according to the local daily Press Democrat. Sebastopol’s Design Review Board (DRB) had already rejected the proposal twice, most recently by a 4-1 vote.
Armstrong’s attorney threatened and bullied nearly 200 residents of the town of 7,300 to shut up and take orders from Armstrong/Chase/CVS. She was apparently trying to subvert the democratic process of one-person one-vote and replace it by the power of big business.
Residents objected to someone coming from outside to tell them how to run their agrarian town, which exemplifies what would be likely to happen if the proposal is approved. The Planning Commission and City Council (CC) had also previously rejected the proposal for not conforming to the town’s General Plan, as well as design and planning regulations.
The reason the proposal is still on the table is the threat by the deep pockets of Chase and CVS to sue the town and its people. Sebastopudlians talk about fighting for “the heart and soul” of their town and “not selling it to the highest outside bidder.” They discuss tactics such as boycotts and civil disobedience to block Chase/CVS from dominating their charming downtown and ushering in other mega-corporations.
Opponents implore the CC to wait until a better offer, which conforms to the town’s regulations, comes along. Another nearby large development, the Barlow Project, has received substantial local support because it will provide spaces for many local businesses. The money would thus circulate locally rather than leave the area. The downtown already has enough credit unions and local banks, as well as a pharmacy.
Though the July 17 meeting that started at 6 p.m. was advertised as a “public hearing,” the developers talked for two hours. It was 10 p.m. by the time the patient public was allowed to speak; most people had gone home.
The hearing convened again on July 19, where 43 people spoke against the development and 17 for it. Those supporting the development were mainly older friends of the family seeking to sell its two and a half acre abandoned car dealership. The opponents included people from their early 20s into their 70s. Among them were half a dozen activists from Occupy Sebastopol, which still maintains a tent in the town square and organizes ongoing protests against Chase/CVS as one of its main objectives.
Activists complained that the development is car-centric, mainly a large parking lot with only two isolated stores, rather than pedestrian and bike friendly. They noted that the drive-through component would create greater pollution in the downtown commons and increase greenhouse gas emissions, thus worsening chaotic climate change. A study reported that traffic would be increased by at least 2000 trips a day in the county’s most clogged intersection. This would not be good for emergency vehicles, pedestrians, or bikers.
The next and perhaps final meeting on the proposal will be August 7, when the Council has indicated it will make a decision. After that it is expected that whichever side does not prevail may sue.
“Sacramento is the newest regional office of Armstrong,” according to its California Regional Office website. “California is being targeted for a saturation of CVS stores,” writes Yvette Williams, a member of Sebastopol’s Planning Commission, which has rejected the development.
The DRB was willing to work with Armstrong. However, it has basically ignored the feedback that it gets from the majority of citizens and town officials, only making a few cosmetic changes. Armstrong appears to be trying to strong-arm its case, preferring a litigious route to get what it wants.
“In the next five years, we anticipate completing retail development values at over half a billion dollars,” Armstrong’s website brags. “From one store in a small town, we now develop CVS pharmacies in nine states. We’ve constructed over 400 locations with more than 150 sites in the development pipeline. A similar development program exists with JP Morgan Chase Bank, with many sites in development across our region.” Chase and CVS are frequent partners around the U.S., as well as in paying millions of dollars in fines for illegal business practices.
Many federal regulators currently are investigating Chase for its CEO Jamie Dimon originally announced losses of around $2 billion dollars in June and then admitted in July that they were $6 billion or more. Chase is one of the big five banks responsible for the recent fall of the American economy. CVS has also paid millions of dollars in fines for failing to clean-up toxic wastes and other deadly crimes.
Armstrong adds, “We have long standing valued relationships with some of the national’s leading retailers that include Wal-Mart, Lowe’s Home Improvement Center and Target.” So if a city wants to be dominated by long-term relationships with such mega-corporations, Armstrong would be a good developer to hire.
But most Sebastopudlians have settled in a small town with a charming downtown commons because they prefer its agrarian flavor. A larger nearby city, Rohnert Park, has selected a corporate model, which has no town center where people can gather.
Sebastopol is the center of what is called the West County, with some 50,000 residents, of the coastal Sonoma County. It used to be known more by its natural description, the “Redwood Empire,” which many locals still call it. However, the commercial designation is now “Wine Country,” since it has the most lucrative wine industry in the U.S.
Armstrong’s website boasts that it can “quickly locate and open multiple sites.” Yet they have had to spend more than two years already and still do not have an approval in tiny Sebastopol, known as a “green” community with commitments to sustainability.
This controversy has already become a major issue in the Nov. 6 election, where two seats on the City Council are available. Of the four viable candidates, two have come out against the Chase/CVS development—businessmen Robert Jacob and John Eder. They support local business, rather than big business, which drains money out of the county.
Council member Kathleen Shaffer seeks to retain her seat. “Her support for the project from the outset has limited her ability to serve our city,” writes Jonathan Greenberg on the local waccobb.net website. Greenberg has reported for “Forbes,” “New York” and other publications and is CEO of a local communications company. He suggests that Shaffer not vote on this issue.
Two activists from the nearby Occupy Petaluma testified at the July 19 meeting. They indicated problems with CVS in their city and are also mounting a campaign against Chase. “If Chase goes ahead with this development in Sebastopol,” commented Amy Hanks of Occupy Petaluma, “we could target their stores around the county and develop boycotts to hurt their businesses. If we are displeased by their behavior, we can make them feel that displeasure where it hurts -- in their cash register.”
In nearby Santa Rosa--the largest city in Sonoma County with some 150,000 residents-- Occupy Santa Rosa has had an ongoing campaign against the big banks, including Wells Fargo, which is based nearby in San Francisco.
Provincial, backwater Sonoma County, on the edges of the metropolitan San Francisco Bay Area, is responding to the phrase “Big Banks Got Bailed Out. We Got Sold Out.” Some of its residents are fighting back against big banks and mega-corporations that feel they merit personhood.
(Shepherd Bliss teaches college, has operated a farm for the last 20 years, and can be reached at [email protected].)
dominus
07-22-2012, 05:47 PM
The citizens of the Sebastopol community didn't block CVS from doing business in our town. Quite the contrary.
The Press Democrat published an article in January 2011 stating the following:
"Sebastopol again ranks near the top in the state for fatal/injury collisions among cities of comparable size, according to the state Office of Traffic Safety.
For 2009, Sebastopol ranked second out of 70 cities of 2,500 to 10,000 people with 67 collisions involving injury or death. Sonora, near Yosemite, ranked No. 1. In 2008, Sebastopol ranked fourth, with 54 such collisions.
The high ranking came as no surprise to Sebastopol Police Lt. James Conner. He said that with Highways 12 and 116 running through Sebastopol, traffic is unusually heavy for a small city and that most of the city’s collisions occur along those two roads."
https://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/news/heavy-traffic-puts-sebastopol-at-risk/
(https://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/news/heavy-traffic-puts-sebastopol-at-risk/)
Please see the following taken from CEQA site.
"A Negative Declaration is a document that states upon completion of an initial study, that there is no substantial evidence that the project may have a significant effect on the environment.
A Negative Declaration can be prepared only when there is no substantial evidence in light of the whole record before the lead agency that the project may have a significant effect on the environment." (PRC §21080(c) (https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/stat/chap2_6.html#21080)), (14 C.C.R. §15070 (https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/guidelines/art6.html#15070))
https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/flowchart/lead_agency/EIR-ND.html
Given this information, who conducted this initial study? And how did they determine in the face of concrete evidence that no EIR would be necessary at the crossroads of two state highways with such a significant proclivity for car accidents?
The Armstrong developers should never have gotten this far in the process. An EIR should have been required, NOT a negative declaration. I've no doubt an EIR would ascertain that a significant amount of traffic would result from this move. With an increase of more traffic, comes increased propensity for collisions both pedestrian and auto. More collisions can result in increased danger to individuals traveling in the area.
The Press Democrat published an article in January 2011 stating the following:
"Sebastopol again ranks near the top in the state for fatal/injury collisions among cities of comparable size, according to the state Office of Traffic Safety.
For 2009, Sebastopol ranked second out of 70 cities of 2,500 to 10,000 people with 67 collisions involving injury or death. Sonora, near Yosemite, ranked No. 1. In 2008, Sebastopol ranked fourth, with 54 such collisions.
The high ranking came as no surprise to Sebastopol Police Lt. James Conner. He said that with Highways 12 and 116 running through Sebastopol, traffic is unusually heavy for a small city and that most of the city’s collisions occur along those two roads."
https://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/news/heavy-traffic-puts-sebastopol-at-risk/
(https://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2011/01/news/heavy-traffic-puts-sebastopol-at-risk/)
Please see the following taken from CEQA site.
"A Negative Declaration is a document that states upon completion of an initial study, that there is no substantial evidence that the project may have a significant effect on the environment.
A Negative Declaration can be prepared only when there is no substantial evidence in light of the whole record before the lead agency that the project may have a significant effect on the environment." (PRC §21080(c) (https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/stat/chap2_6.html#21080)), (14 C.C.R. §15070 (https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/guidelines/art6.html#15070))
https://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/flowchart/lead_agency/EIR-ND.html
Given this information, who conducted this initial study? And how did they determine in the face of concrete evidence that no EIR would be necessary at the crossroads of two state highways with such a significant proclivity for car accidents?
The Armstrong developers should never have gotten this far in the process. An EIR should have been required, NOT a negative declaration. I've no doubt an EIR would ascertain that a significant amount of traffic would result from this move. With an increase of more traffic, comes increased propensity for collisions both pedestrian and auto. More collisions can result in increased danger to individuals traveling in the area.
Attic
07-22-2012, 07:49 PM
I wouldn't be apposed to a parking garage if it was connected by a road from the back of that property. I am apposed to Chase. Chase is an evil entity. I am not interested in giving Chase further footing in this town.
Council Member Kathleen Shaffer
[email protected]
Please email Kathleen and let her know she will be loosing your vote if she continues to support the Chase Development.
I'm a bit flabbergasted by parts of this. In a town that is ALWAYS complaining of insufficient parking this project is being taken to task for having too much!
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.
Council Member Kathleen Shaffer
[email protected]
Please email Kathleen and let her know she will be loosing your vote if she continues to support the Chase Development.
I'm a bit flabbergasted by parts of this. In a town that is ALWAYS complaining of insufficient parking this project is being taken to task for having too much!
Also, how many of the Barlow businesses front the street?
I can think of at least 2 very unattractive buildings added to the downtown in recent years that garnered no such objections regarding designs inconsistent with the look of the town, one of which sits almost directly across the street from the Pellini property and the other being just north of the core and occupied by a popular restaurant.
These issues seem to support rossmen's observations.