Community of spiritual beings with and without bodies

[CSummer]

A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thank you!

[Jude Iam]

Yes - those, throughout the ages and cultures who have heard from and written/spoken for spiritual world, always say yes: invite them and they will come.

So go, ahead - make your own connection with other realms.

Those who are skeptical might as well, just to see what happens...
those who are cynical won't and we'll know what happens (doesn't happen) there.
Love, Judith


A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thank you!

[ICPP]

Thank you so much for your posting. This topic is so important, because, as you probably already know, the telepathic reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri often jump in and pretend to be spiritual beings from beyond the physical plane whenever they telepathically hear earthlings inviting spiritual beings from other realms.

Don't be fooled!!

Here's how you can tell the telepathic aliens from regular spiritual beings from other realms;

1. The Alpha Centaurians have an agenda, they've taken control of the White House and the oil companies and they're terraforming earth using chemtrails in preperation for an invasion. They'll just want you to think they're all benevolent and warm and fuzzy, but BE CAREFUL, they're not.

2. Real Spiritual Beings From Beyond really are benevolent and warm and fuzzy, see the difference?



A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thank you!

[MsTerry]

my son wants to know if you are related to ICUP?


Thank you so much for your posting. This topic is so important, because, as you probably already know, the telepathic reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri often jump in and pretend to be spiritual beings from beyond the physical plane whenever they telepathically hear earthlings inviting spiritual beings from other realms.

Don't be fooled!!

Here's how you can tell the telepathic aliens from regular spiritual beings from other realms;

1. The Alpha Centaurians have an agenda, they've taken control of the White House and the oil companies and they're terraforming earth using chemtrails in preperation for an invasion. They'll just want you to think they're all benevolent and warm and fuzzy, but BE CAREFUL, they're not.

2. Real Spiritual Beings From Beyond really are benevolent and warm and fuzzy, see the difference?

[dw41552]

Hey CSummer

The only ones outside of our realm are of course God, Jesus, angels, satan and his demons, and the dead. All of them you can communicate with except the dead. Communication with God can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. He is our mediator. Whether one is able to communicate with an angel is up to the angel. Satan and his demons would love for one to try and communicate with them which would open one up to posession, and more than likely result in losing their soul to the devil. Trust me, you don't want any part of that. No one can communicate with the dead, because they are dead. A better way to describe it is they are asleep until the final judgement when all the dead will be risen, and along with the living will have to stand before God and account for their lives.

UFOs, aliens, ghosts, astrology, psychics, witch craft, cults, etc. etc. are all tools of satan to throw us off, to take our focus off of where it should be, and that is on the one and only true God, who created us, the universe, and everything in it.

God Bless



A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmp ones uotyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thank you!

[ICPP]

Of course! Why didn't I think of that before!?!

Satan is pretending to be telepathic reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri who are pretending to be benevolent spirits from another realm in contact with wacco remote viewers who refuse to divulge the locations of thousands of missing children!

He's a sly devil that ol' Scratch.


Hey CSummer

The only ones outside of our realm are of course God, Jesus, angels, satan and his demons, and the dead. All of them you can communicate with except the dead. Communication with God can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. He is our mediator. Whether one is able to communicate with an angel is up to the angel. Satan and his demons would love for one to try and communicate with them which would open one up to posession, and more than likely result in losing their soul to the devil. Trust me, you don't want any part of that. No one can communicate with the dead, because they are dead. A better way to describe it is they are asleep until the final judgement when all the dead will be risen, and along with the living will have to stand before God and account for their lives.

UFOs, aliens, ghosts, astrology, psychics, witch craft, cults, etc. etc. are all tools of satan to throw us off, to take our focus off of where it should be, and that is on the one and only true God, who created us, the universe, and everything in it.

God Bless

[dw41552]

Don't under estimate the power of satan and his horde. They are as real as God Himself. His one and only agenda is to fool and confuse as many people as he can, to take the focus off of God. He is the king of lies, the master of deceit, and he wants your soul. He knows what the future holds for him, and he wants to take as many people down with him as he can. You know, misery loves company.

God Bless




Of course! Why didn't I think of that before!?!

Satan is pretending to be telepathic reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri who are pretending to be benevolent spirits from another realm in contact with wacco remote viewers who refuse to divulge the locations of thousands of missing children!

He's a sly devil that ol' Scratch.

[MsTerry]

What would Satan gain by taking the focus off of God?
What's he going to do with all those souls he wants?
Where does Satan lives?


Don't under estimate the power of satan and his horde. They are as real as God Himself. His one and only agenda is to fool and confuse as many people as he can, to take the focus off of God. He is the king of lies, the master of deceit, and he wants your soul. He knows what the future holds for him, and he wants to take as many people down with him as he can. You know, misery loves company.

God Bless

[Lorrie]

What would Satan gain by taking the focus off of God?
What's he going to do with all those souls he wants?
Where does Satan lives?


Ms. Terry why do you ask? If anyone knows the answer to this its you...

[nurturetruth]

This is getting to be a bit funny.

However, the main request was very real and sincere.

My experience is that we can definitely communicate with souls who have crossed over. I make a request (to Spirit/God/Grandfather-Grandmother/Jesus and yes, also the Holy Spirit. Often , I include archangels.) , to allow the intended soul to only hear my communications IF they are in the light and are "angels". This seems to work better.
But they often do not communicate as we do..as most are aware since
they reach out in extra-dimensional communication.
If anyone would like to hear more ,feel free to email.

[dw41552]

Sorry but there is no crossing over, not yet any way. There is no place to cross over to until judgment day. What you have experienced was not communication with the dead I assure you. And no one can communicate with God without going through Jesus Christ. I assure you you're lucky you haven't seen face to face with what it was you supposedly communicated with several times, because if you had you would be scared out of your mind. And unfortunately there is no protection against these forces without Jesus being number one in your life. I'm sorry I sound full of gloom and doom but people do not take satan and his demonic forces serious enough. And I don't understand why when all you have to do is take a good look around you and see all the evil in this world. How much positive do you see when you read the news paper or watch TV news. Very little. 95% of all news is negative.

God is going to end things as they are and I don't believe this time is very far off. Look at it this way. In the last 40 years the population has doubled from 3 billion to 6 1/2 billion. so more than likely the population will double in the next 40 years to around 13 billlion if we last that long. There is no way this planet can support 13 billion people. We're having a hard time supporting the population today much less than another 6 1/2 billion.

God Bless



This is getting to be a bit funny.

However, the main request was very real and sincere.

I for one ,feel we can definitely communicate with souls who have crossed over. I have experienced this several significant times. But first, I make a request to Spirit/God/Grandfather (and sometimes Jesus) for them to only hear my communications IF they are in the light and are "angels".
But they often do not communicate as we do..as most are aware since
they reach out in extra-dimensional communication.
If anyone would like to hear more ,feel free to email.

[dw41552]

Hey MsTerrry

How the heck are ya? It's been a while. I haven't posted anything here for the last few months. Figured I'd give everyone a break.:): I'll try my best to answer your questions, but don't just take my word as gospel. Google satan and you'll get more information than you really want to know.

#1 Souls. It's when we take our focus off of God and place it on things of this world such as money, sex, drugs, alcohol, mysticism, idolatry. etc. etc.
that we fall away and worship those things more than God. Satan uses a lot of tools which feel, taste, and look good but can kill both the body and soul. And many many people fall to these temptations. The more I focus on God the less likely I am to fall victim to satan's deceit and lies.

#2 All the souls he wins over he is going to take down with him when Jesus finally defeats him and throws him into the pit of fire. Like I said misery loves company. satan hates us that much.

#3 He lives in the midst of evil. Where ever there is evil satan will be there. And when we put Jesus first in our lives satan has no power over us.

God bless you MsTerry

Butch


What would Satan gain by taking the focus off of God?
What's he going to do with all those souls he wants?
Where does Satan lives?

[MsTerry]

Hi Butch, it's good to see you're back on board.
This Satan gets me all confused, Lorrie even implies that I am Satan.

But what I am not getting is why doesn't the Almighty God take care of Satan?
Hell, He'd been saving millions of souls in one big swoop, wouldn't he?


Hey MsTerrry

How the heck are ya? It's been a while. I haven't posted anything here for the last few months. Figured I'd give everyone a break.:): I'll try my best to answer your questions, but don't just take my word as gospel. Google satan and you'll get more information than you really want to know.

#1 Souls. It's when we take our focus off of God and place it on things of this world such as money, sex, drugs, alcohol, mysticism, idolatry. etc. etc.
that we fall away and worship those things more than God. Satan uses a lot of tools which feel, taste, and look good but can kill both the body and soul. And many many people fall to these temptations. The more I focus on God the less likely I am to fall victim to satan's deceit and lies.

#2 All the souls he wins over he is going to take down with him when Jesus finally defeats him and throws him into the pit of fire. Like I said misery loves company. satan hates us that much.

#3 He lives in the midst of evil. Where ever there is evil satan will be there. And when we put Jesus first in our lives satan has no power over us.

God bless you MsTerry

Butch

[Skook]

The oddest thing about the Satan story is that he was supposedly an angel in heaven who committed the gravest sin of all - spiritual pride. He thought he loved God more than all the other angels, so God evicted him from heaven. I dunno why God supposedly thought it was a good idea to sic Satan on us.



...Satan gets me all confused, Lorrie even implies that I am Satan.

But what I am not getting is why doesn't the Almighty God take care of Satan?
Hell, He'd been saving millions of souls in one big swoop, wouldn't he?

[Quintessence]

As someone with a Master of Divinity degree from Princeton Theological Seminary, with a concentration in New Testament, let me weigh in. (sorry to use the clout, but I do have the education to be a Presbyterian minister). I am convinced the JESUS DID NOT INTEND TO START A NEW RELIGION, HE WANTED THE JEWS OF HIS DAY TO WISE UP AND LEARN TO BE COMPASSIONATE! FURTHERMORE JESUS WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BS THAT IS DONE AND SAID IN HIS NAME TODAY. HE WOULD BE OUT MINISTERING TO THE SICK AND OUTCAST SAME AS HE DID IN THE DAY. HE WOULD NOT HAVE A MEGACHURCH AND HE DEFINITLEY WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE REPUBLICAN. AND HE WOULD SAY, FORGET ALL THE JOTS AND TITTLES YOU ARE FOCUSING ON IN THOSE OBSCURE TEXTS WRITTEN SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT HIM AND GET OUT AND LOVE YOUR NEIGBOR AS YOURSELF!!!! And if you want to read some good stuff, make it from strong experiences from strongly spiritual people. Try the Tibetan Book of the Dead by Sogyol Rinpoche, for example. They know about ghosts and all the spiritual realms, BY EXPERIENCE, not by reading some BS written 2000 years ago, something current, acknowledging that we humans have actually learned something in 2000 years. And true spirits don't clobber anyone over the head with their message..... it is meant to help people. Always the test of true spirituality -- it helps PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE WORLD! Never separates into US/THEM. That part Jesus at his best gave up too, but at his worst he bought into that scheme, cuz he was a product of his time, like the New Testament. Get current and educated, and live NOW.

[dw41552]

As someone with a Master of Divinity degree from Princeton Theological Seminary, with a concentration in New Testament, let me weigh in. (sorry to use the clout, but I do have the education to be a Presbyterian minister). I am convinced the JESUS DID NOT INTEND TO START A NEW RELIGION, HE WANTED THE JEWS OF HIS DAY TO WISE UP AND LEARN TO BE COMPASSIONATE! FURTHERMORE JESUS WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BS THAT IS DONE AND SAID IN HIS NAME TODAY. HE WOULD BE OUT MINISTERING TO THE SICK AND OUTCAST SAME AS HE DID IN THE DAY. HE WOULD NOT HAVE A MEGACHURCH AND HE DEFINITLEY WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE REPUBLICAN. AND HE WOULD SAY, FORGET ALL THE JOTS AND TITTLES YOU ARE FOCUSING ON IN THOSE OBSCURE TEXTS WRITTEN SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT HIM AND GET OUT AND LOVE YOUR NEIGBOR AS YOURSELF!!!! And if you want to read some good stuff, make it from strong experiences from strongly spiritual people. Try the Tibetan Book of the Dead by Sogyol Rinpoche, for example. They know about ghosts and all the spiritual realms, BY EXPERIENCE, not by reading some BS written 2000 years ago, something current, acknowledging that we humans have actually learned something in 2000 years. And true spirits don't clobber anyone over the head with their message..... it is meant to help people. Always the test of true spirituality -- it helps PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE WORLD! Never separates into US/THEM. That part Jesus at his best gave up too, but at his worst he bought into that scheme, cuz he was a product of his time, like the New Testament. Get current and educated, and live NOW.

What clout sir? You are wrong, educated or not. Just the four words JESUS DID NOT INTEND, Tells me you wasted a lot of money on that education of yours. Jesus being God in human form knew exactly what He was doing and how things would work out, because He planned it out down to the last jots and tittles. He intended everything to happen exactly as it did. Remember He is perfect and can make no mistakes as you suggest. Your second statement in red almost has me convinced you might be one of those many false prophets Jesus warned us would pop up during the end times. You make Jesus out to be a flawed human being like us. He was the only perfect sinless person that ever set foot on this planet. The Jesus you describe is not the Jesus we Christians know and love. You've invented a Jesus that fits your own agenda, and I would love to sit down and discuss with your teachers and tell them how wrong their teachings really are. I hope you didn't have to pay to much for this education because you definately got ripped off. I never made it past the tenth grade. The highest education I have is a GED from the Army. But it doesn't take an education to see just how far off you are. Your words are dangerous and could possibly lead people down the wrong path, and if that happens I would not want to be in your shoes.

[dw41552]

The oddest thing about the Satan story is that he was supposedly an angel in heaven who committed the gravest sin of all - spiritual pride. He thought he loved God more than all the other angels, so God evicted him from heaven. I dunno why God supposedly thought it was a good idea to sic Satan on us.

You're close. He was actually kicked out because he wanted to be above God. Read my last post to MsTerry. That should answer your last question.

God bless

[ICPP]

It's hard to imagine a cosmology more bizarre and whacky than belief in a creator who would condemn children to torture for eternity. No wonder fundies are so deranged.

[dw41552]

It's hard to imagine a cosmology more bizarre and whacky than belief in a creator who would condemn children to torture for eternity. No wonder fundies are so deranged.

You bring up a great subject and a valid concern. God does not condemn children to hell. There is an age of accountability. No one is sure exactly what age that is. Most of us believe it to be around puberty. In other words any one under that age who dies would automatically go to heaven. Others who will automatically go to heaven are those who can't understand fully the difference between right and wrong such as most of the mentaly challenged.

God bless

[ICPP]

Oh please, you sound like a lawyer for a tobbaco corporation. I grew up in a mainstream southern baptist church and I know firsthand how crazy and obsessed with punishment christian fundamentalism is. Condemning adults to an enternity of torture is no less preposterous than children.


You bring up a great subject and a valid concern. God does not condemn children to hell. There is an age of accountability. No one is sure exactly what age that is. Most of us believe it to be around puberty. In other words any one under that age who dies would automatically go to heaven. Others who will automatically go to heaven are those who can't understand fully the difference between right and wrong such as most of the mentaly challenged.

God bless

[someguy]

Has anyone who has already posted here actually read the bible?

[ICPP]

Have you actually read the posts here? If you have a point to make, go ahead and make it, rhetorical questions are just annoying.


Has anyone who has already posted here actually read the bible?

[someguy]

Have you actually read the posts here? If you have a point to make, go ahead and make it, rhetorical questions are just annoying.
It was not a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question would go a little something like this: I wonder if anyone here has actually read the bible? So please dont get annoyed.

Im seriously interested in knowing if any of you actually know what you are talking about. And after reading all of the posts here, Id like to know if I should jump in and have a logical discussion with informed people or not jump in because Ill be having to discuss this with a bunch of people spouting off second hand information.

[dw41552]

It was not a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question would go a little something like this: I wonder if anyone here has actually read the bible? So please dont get annoyed.

Im seriously interested in knowing if any of you actually know what you are talking about. And after reading all of the posts here, Id like to know if I should jump in and have a logical discussion with informed people or not jump in because Ill be having to discuss this with a bunch of people spouting off second hand information.

Hey someguy

Welcome! Please feel free to discuss what ever is on your mind. To answer your question, yes I have read the bible many times, the new Testament more so than the old, as it is more pertinent to today and the future. Althogh the Old Testimate is good reading also.

[Skook]

Since none of the original books of the bible have been read by anyone for well over a thousand years, presumably everyone's 'information' is second hand. I can only assume you think your interpretation of the bible is informed while ours is 'second hand', and I do appreciate the irony, there's so little humor to be found when discussing christianity with believers.


It was not a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question would go a little something like this: I wonder if anyone here has actually read the bible? So please dont get annoyed.

Im seriously interested in knowing if any of you actually know what you are talking about. And after reading all of the posts here, Id like to know if I should jump in and have a logical discussion with informed people or not jump in because Ill be having to discuss this with a bunch of people spouting off second hand information.

[someguy]

Since none of the original books of the bible have been read by anyone for well over a thousand years, presumably everyone's 'information' is second hand. I can only assume you think your interpretation of the bible is informed while ours is 'second hand', and I do appreciate the irony, there's so little humor to be found when discussing christianity with believers.

Thanks Skook, I really appreciate your hilarious assumptions and your finding irony in something that doesnt exist. Very interesting point of view you have. With dumb responses like yours I have come to realize that wacco is not a place of real valuable discussion. Too many "conscious people" such as yourself who love to jump to conclusions and read into things that were never said, and inevitably bring down the value of the entire thread. Not that this thread ever had any value anyway. It was my mistake to even say anything in the first place. Please feel free to discuss further this thread and disregard any posts I have put up.

You know the funny thing is, I probably agree more with your perspective than Dw's, but at least he's kind and respectful to me when he responds. And you know what, he actually answered my question and invited me to join in. Wow what a concept, respect!!!!! It really does go a long way.

Peace.

[Skook]

Pardon my assumption, but unless you can read Hebrew and Aramaic and have access to a time machine the bible you've read has been translated and revised numerous times... isn't that second hand?


Thanks Skook, I really appreciate your hilarious assumptions and your finding irony in something that doesnt exist. Very interesting point of view you have. With dumb responses like yours I have come to realize that wacco is not a place of real valuable discussion. Too many "conscious people" such as yourself who love to jump to conclusions and read into things that were never said, and inevitably bring down the value of the entire thread. Not that this thread ever had any value anyway. It was my mistake to even say anything in the first place. Please feel free to discuss further this thread and disregard any posts I have put up.

You know the funny thing is, I probably agree more with your perspective than Dw's, but at least he's kind and respectful to me when he responds. And you know what, he actually answered my question and invited me to join in. Wow what a concept, respect!!!!! It really does go a long way.

Peace.

[Quintessence]

Pardon my assumption, but unless you can read Hebrew and Aramaic and have access to a time machine the bible you've read has been translated and revised numerous times... isn't that second hand?

Excellent point Smook, although the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, not Aramaic. I have coined a term for those who believe so vehemently in every jot and tittle of the written word, as if it is what God actually said: "Bibliolatry" = false worship of the Bible as if it were itself divine. It's not, it was written by people trying to witness to their faith and story, it is not consistent of course and we don't even know how all the transcribers through the ages changed things or lost or left out important elements. Then it was all put together by "committee", and whoever thinks that yields a perfect result has not been on one. Of course, folks like we have on this thread will opine that all those movements were divinely inspired..... like I should have faith in THAT notion????? And that God would determine my eternal fate depending on my faith in all that very human writing? Evidence is strongly emerging that you reap what you sew, and your Karma is what you take with you, i.e., you create your own heaven or hell.

Sorry, but the Buddhist spiritualists (not the common practiotioners, necessarily) have it right: live compassionately, love all beings, be kind and gentle with yourself too. Do not create enmity or divisions. If anyone wants to pretend they speak for Jesus and disagrees with that, THEY are the false prophets. They pick out jots and tittles and miss the meaning of the message. It's never us vs. them, and you are going to hell unless you say the magic words. It's US, we are in it together, and need to keep practicing and talking to get closer to ........... our best living.

[dw41552]

Oh please, you sound like a lawyer for a tobbaco corporation. I grew up in a mainstream southern baptist church and I know firsthand how crazy and obsessed with punishment christian fundamentalism is. Condemning adults to an enternity of torture is no less preposterous than children.

OK, ICCP let's put you in God's shoes for a minute. You've created man because you want some companions. You've loved them unconditionally for thousands of years and have tried everything imaginable to give them a good life while showing them many miracles, yet they pretty much spit in your face and turn their backs on you as if you don't even exist. But loving them as much as you do, you give them one more chance by coming down to earth as a man, (Jesus). You live among them for 33 years in which the last 3 you teach them a much better way of life, while showing them many more miracles, but still, few listen, and most hate you and mock you, yet you still allow them to brutally torture you and kill you by nailing you to a cross, and in doing so you take all of their sins upon yourself so that they have a chance to turn back to you, because you love them so much. And even when many see you again after you are resurected conquering death and sin, still the majority of your people refuse to except you no matter how much you love them.

Tell me, what would you do?

Unfortunately we can be so stubborn it takes the possibility of a drastic punishment to get our attention. If there were no consequences for lliving outside of God's will and if He didn't intervene, we would not be here today. We would have nuked this planet into a lifeless burnt out hunk of rock by now.

You need to sak yourself, what if everything I've said here is true. If you agree and follow what I have shared, and it isn't true, what would you lose? If you continue to mock me, and everything I've said is true, what would you lose?

God bless

[ICPP]

The sheer madness of such a belief system is breathtaking.


OK, ICCP let's put you in God's shoes for a minute. You've created man because you want some companions. You've loved them unconditionally for thousands of years and have tried everything imaginable to give them a good life while showing them many miracles, yet they pretty much spit in your face and turn their backs on you as if you don't even exist. But loving them as much as you do, you give them one more chance by coming down to earth as a man, (Jesus). You live among them for 33 years in which the last 3 you teach them a much better way of life, while showing them many more miracles, but still, few listen, and most hate you and mock you, yet you still allow them to brutally torture you and kill you by nailing you to a cross, and in doing so you take all of their sins upon yourself so that they have a chance to turn back to you, because you love them so much. And even when many see you again after you are resurected conquering death and sin, still the majority of your people refuse to except you no matter how much you love them.

Tell me, what would you do?

Unfortunately we can be so stubborn it takes the possibility of a drastic punishment to get our attention. If there were no consequences for lliving outside of God's will and if He didn't intervene, we would not be here today. We would have nuked this planet into a lifeless burnt out hunk of rock by now.

You need to sak yourself, what if everything I've said here is true. If you agree and follow what I have shared, and it isn't true, what would you lose? If you continue to mock me, and everything I've said is true, what would you lose?

God bless

[Zeno Swijtink]

OK, ICCP let's put you in God's shoes for a minute. You've created man because you want some companions. (...) Tell me, what would you do?

If I were God I would show compassion. And I certainly would not hold the children responsible for the sins of their fathers, or blame people for never even have heard about me.

After all, I made many public relation mistakes, such as writing for a long time my messages in a language most people could not read (if they even could read), or playing favorites, and singling out one tribe over others and even promising the land of the ones I did not favor (although I had never even contacted them) to my favorite group and allowing my favorites to plunder and murder.

I could go on about myself but I hope you see I may have lost the right to judge, and certainly the right to condemn sinners to eternal suffering. Eternal is a long time. I know. I have been there.

[dw41552]

Since none of the original books of the bible have been read by anyone for well over a thousand years, presumably everyone's 'information' is second hand. I can only assume you think your interpretation of the bible is informed while ours is 'second hand', and I do appreciate the irony, there's so little humor to be found when discussing christianity with believers.

It really doesn't matter which bible translation one reads. One who does not follow Jesus and has no interest in ever doing so would probably not get to much out of it, although with God nothing is impossible.
As for me I am given understanding when I read my bible no matter how many times it has been interpreted. Not because I'm smart, but because of my faith. When I read a verse I believe God will give me an understanding of that verse. I don't claim to understand every word I read, because I have to admit my faith isn't always as strong as I'd like it to be. Like I've said I am a flawed human being just like everyone else. But fortunately God's abundant grace saves me. By the way here's some humor.


A Sunday school teacher was discussing the Ten Commandments with her five and six year olds.

After explaining the commandment to "honor thy father and thy mother," she asked, "Is there a commandment that teaches us how to treat our brothers and sisters?"

Without missing a beat one little boy answered, "Thou shall not kill."

God bless

[dw41552]

The sheer madness of such a belief system is breathtaking.

Shear madness is running from the truth.

So you believe there is no God and that Jesus is a myth?

[NudeTea]

I'm going to avoid the promiscuously pontificated propaganda here and simply reply to Clint's original post, if I can find it in the clutter everyone's made of this bulletin board. I have found communication with spirits to be one on one. I have not found 'communities' of spiritual beings but rather that individual spirits will accompany individual humans, and that will comprise the community: some participants in the body, some out of it. I'm curious as to what spiritual contacts you might have experienced thus far that draws you to inquire further.


A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Thank you!

[dw41552]

If I were God I would show compassion. And I certainly would not hold the children responsible for the sins of their fathers, or blame people for never even have heard about me.

Are you saying God has no compassion? What more does he have to do to prove He does and that he is real?

John 3:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=3&verse=16&version=31&context=verse)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Sounds like He's much more compassionate than any one of us would be willing to be. If someone killed your child what punishment would you think they would deserve. God could wipe us all out with the snap of a finger but He does not. But the world gets more evil day by day, and eventually He will say enough is enough, so be ready.

Jesus said He will not come back until His gospel has been preached to everyone.

Matthew 24:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=14&version=50&context=verse)
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Neither does God hold children responsible for their father's sins.


(Deuteronomy 24:16 (https://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Deuteronomy%2024.16)) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
(Ezekiel 18:20 (https://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Ezekiel%2018.20)) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."



After all, I made many public relation mistakes, such as writing for a long time my messages in a language most people could not read (if they even could read), or playing favorites, and singling out one tribe over others and even promising the land of the ones I did not favor (although I had never even contacted them) to my favorite group and allowing my favorites to plunder and murder.

God being perfect is incapable of making a mistakes.

Matthew 5:48 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=48&version=50&context=verse)
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

There have been many who could not read but still had ears to hear. And God shows no favoritism. He loves you just as much as He loves me whether you except Him or not. All those tribes that were plundered and killed are off shoot tribes from the one original tribe. They all knew who God was and what He expected of them, but they chose to go there own way and worship other false gods, not to mention the people who made up these tribes were evil beyond your wildest dreams, so God didn't allow any of these people killed who didn't deserve it.

I could go on about myself but I hope you see I may have lost the right to judge, and certainly the right to condemn sinners to eternal suffering. Eternal is a long time. I know. I have been there.

He gave us life and the freedom of choice. But can you think of a better way to convince people that His way is the way to go than the possibility of eternal damnation. We are a stubborn people and it's the only way to get through to us. And those who choose Him and endure to the end are the kind of people He wants as companions, and will enjoy an eternity of bliss.

God bless

[Zeno Swijtink]

But can you think of a better way to convince people that His way is the way to go than the possibility of eternal damnation?

I can, and I hope so can you! Threatening people with eternal damnation may get them in line, but it does not win over their hearts.

[Zeno Swijtink]

And I certainly would not hold the children responsible for the sins of their fathers, or blame people for never even have heard about me.


Deuteronomy 5:9-10 says, "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me."

I know, I am contradicting myself in other passages of My Book, but then I am not Perfect.

[dw41552]

I can, and I hope so can you! Threatening people with eternal damnation may get them in line, but it does not win over their hearts.

I could never figure out any other way to convince billions of people to come to my way of thinking. Believing in Him is how we come to love Him and want to follow His ways, which you have to admit would be a much better way of life than what we have now.

[dw41552]

Deuteronomy 5:9-10 says, "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me."

I know, I am contradicting myself in other passages of My Book, but then I am not Perfect.

Covenantally, when a father misleads his family, the effects of that misleading are often felt for generations. This is because the father is being covenantally unfaithful and God has stipulated that there are punishments to breaking the covenant with God. That is the case with these verses that deal with the sins visited upon the children. If a father rejects the covenant of God and takes his family into sin and rejects God, the children will suffer the consequences, often for several generations. Whether or not this is fair is not the issue. Sin is in the world, and consequences of sin effected many generations.

This does not mean that the next generation can't turn to God and repent, which would bring them into salvation.

[Zeno Swijtink]

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



Sounds like He's much more compassionate than any one of us would be willing to be. If someone killed your child what punishment would you think they would deserve. God could wipe us all out with the snap of a finger but He does not. But the world gets more evil day by day, and eventually He will say enough is enough, so be ready.

God bless

If I had only be a bit more compassionate!

Here I am sending my one and only one and only Son, and I knew He was going to be killed (believe me it is sometimes painful to know everything!). In fact I wanted him to be killed because then I could offset humanity's sins by his punishment (death) and balance out my ledger.

Having the privilege of having lived 2000 years longer I now see how warped my thinking was. I can't even understand anymore why I thought it was a neat idea. To think of it, it sounds awfully much like what I wrote in Deuteronomy 5:9-10, about punishing a son for his father's sins. Here I am punishing my Son for humanity's Sin.

No, I erred. Compassion is the way to go. And if I reread my Book, there are some traces of that Insight. Strange it took me so long to think through that conundrum!

[Zeno Swijtink]

I could never figure out any other way to convince billions of people to come to my way of thinking. Believing in Him is how we come to love Him and want to follow His ways, which you have to admit would be a much better way of life than what we have now.

How can I love someone who is going to torture me forever if I don't love him?

(I know I could do it, but then I am God.)

[Zeno Swijtink]

Covenantally, when a father misleads his family, the effects of that misleading are often felt for generations. This is because the father is being covenantally unfaithful and God has stipulated that there are punishments to breaking the covenant with God. That is the case with these verses that deal with the sins visited upon the children. If a father rejects the covenant of God and takes his family into sin and rejects God, the children will suffer the consequences, often for several generations. Whether or not this is fair is not the issue. Sin is in the world, and consequences of sin effected many generations.

This does not mean that the next generation can't turn to God and repent, which would bring them into salvation.

I know, for awhile I thought I could get out of this lapse, but I am clearly saying that it is me who is doing the visiting of the iniquity of the fathers upon their children.

I need to take responsibility. It was not just a matter of natural consequences. And I did it all out of jealousy!

[dw41552]

If I had only be a bit more compassionate!

Here I am sending my one and only one and only Son, and I knew He was going to be killed (believe me it is sometimes painful to know everything!). In fact I wanted him to be killed because then I could offset humanity's sins by his punishment (death) and balance out my ledger.

Having the privilege of having lived 2000 years longer I now see how warped my thinking was. I can't even understand anymore why I thought it was a neat idea. To think of it, it sounds awfully much like what I wrote in Deuteronomy 5:9-10, about punishing a son for his father's sins. Here I am punishing my Son for humanity's Sin.

No, I erred. Compassion is the way to go. And if I reread my Book, there are some traces of that Insight. Strange it took me so long to think through that conundrum!

Remember You and Jesus are one in the same so it is actually you going through the butal torture, and being crucified as a man at the hands of people who absolutely hate your guts for no good reason. You have not done anything deserving of any kind of punishment let alone death. Yet some of the last words out of your mouth as you are slowly dying an agonising death were, "forgive them for they know not what they do." Why? Because you love them despite their hatred for you. Then there's the thief on the cross next to you who admitted he deserved his punishment, ackowleged your innocence, and your words to him were, "today you will be with me in paradise." That's a whole lot of compassion if you ask me.

It's a perfect plan, and those of us who believe and appreciate His sacrifice to save us from our flawed selves will be rewarded beyond our wildest dreams even though none of us deserve it.

God is good!!!!

[dw41552]

How can I love someone who is going to torture me forever if I don't love him?

(I know I could do it, but then I am God.)

How can I not love Someone who gave me life and has offered me an eternity of companionship with Him and eternal bliss, and all He asks in return is to believe in Him and to try my best to live according to His will.

I tell you my life really sucked until I asked for His mercy and believed. Now I am so excited about my new life with Him I have a hard time containing myself and I want to share it with everyone. I have finally found purpose in my life, and I love it.

[Zeno Swijtink]

How can I not love Someone who gave me life and has offered me an eternity of companionship with Him and eternal bliss, and all He asks in return is to believe in Him and to try my best to live according to His will.

I tell you my life really sucked until I asked for His mercy and believed. Now I am so excited about my new life with Him I have a hard time containing myself and I want to share it with everyone. I have finally found purpose in my life, and I love it.

I am happy for you, but you need to be aware that My will, as expressed in my Rule Book (Ten Commandments, etc.) is painfully incomplete.

For instance, I am not saying much at all about not trashing the Earth. I am not speaking out against mountaintop removal to heat your home or sucking the creeks dry to protect your wine grapes against frost.

What are you going to do with your life now that you love Me?

[MsTerry]

Butch, you said Satan collects souls and only souls go to heaven or hell.
I assume souls are not something physical, I've seen dead bodies, so how can they burn in hell if they don't really exist?
What do they look like?
What are they made of?



How can I not love Someone who gave me life and has offered me an eternity of companionship with Him and eternal bliss, and all He asks in return is to believe in Him and to try my best to live according to His will.

I tell you my life really sucked until I asked for His mercy and believed. Now I am so excited about my new life with Him I have a hard time containing myself and I want to share it with everyone. I have finally found purpose in my life, and I love it.

[Skook]

The bible says you should beat your uppity wives and slaves, I hope the good christians here haven't neglected their duty today...

[dw41552]

I am happy for you, but you need to be aware that My will, as expressed in my Rule Book (Ten Commandments, etc.) is painfully incomplete.

Jesus gave us two new commands that would cover everything, which are:

Mark 12:30-3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=12&verse=29&end_verse=31&version=50&context=context)1

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24697 value="29"><SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24698 value="30">30</SUP> And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24699 value="31">31</SUP> And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.”

These two cover everything. If everyone followed these this world would be a paradise.


</SUP>
For instance, I am not saying much at all about not trashing the Earth. I am not speaking out against mountaintop removal to heat your home or sucking the creeks dry to protect your wine grapes against frost.

Yes you're right we do trash this planet. Not that God doesn't care what we do to this world, But I think He is more interested in our souls. The earth as we know it will be replaced with a knew perfect world. Souls on the other hand, once lost to Hell, are lost forever.

What are you going to do with your life now that you love Me?

Serve. I am an advocate for abused children, as I was abused when I was a kid. My purpose is to serve them and anyone else God wants me to. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I do it because it's the least I can do for My God who saved my life, and for my 4 wonderful children He's blessed me with, and My 7 Grindkids with one on the way. 6 of those grandkids are adopted and have also all been abused in one way or another by some sick people.

[dw41552]

Butch, you said Satan collects souls and only souls go to heaven or hell.
I assume souls are not something physical, I've seen dead bodies, so how can they burn in hell if they don't really exist?
What do they look like?
What are they made of?

MsTerry, my favorite WACCO member. That's a good question. Unfortunately I have to admit I'm not real sure on this one. What I do know is there is a heaven and a hell. The things I don't understand about the bible I find don't really matter to me, and don't affect my beliefs. This is one of them. I'm not planning on going to hell so I don't really feel the need to know whether just the soul goes or both soul and physical body. The same with heaven. It doesn't really matter to me whether just my soul goes or all of me goes as long as I get there.

God bless

[CSummer]

Thanks for your interest in the original post, NudeTea (is that you, Stephe?) I really did post this for a friend. He's in his 90's and has mostly lost his ability to use a computer. If you've had related experiences (I haven't that I'm aware of), he'd probably be interested in talking with you - or anyone else with a serious interest in the subject of this thread.



I'm going to avoid the promiscuously pontificated propaganda here and simply reply to Clint's original post, if I can find it in the clutter everyone's made of this bulletin board. I have found communication with spirits to be one on one. I have not found 'communities' of spiritual beings but rather that individual spirits will accompany individual humans, and that will comprise the community: some participants in the body, some out of it. I'm curious as to what spiritual contacts you might have experienced thus far that draws you to inquire further.

[Dixon]

God does not condemn children to hell. There is an age of accountability. No one is sure exactly what age that is. Most of us believe it to be around puberty. In other words any one under that age who dies would automatically go to heaven.

But if they live until the age of accountability, most of them will burn forever in the lake of fire, since only about one-third of the human race is Christian, and most of those aren't the "born again" type. So why are you wasting your time ranting on this thread when you should be out there killing children before they reach the age of accountability, thus guaranteeing their future in Heaven and saving them from an eternity of torment? Don't you love children? Don't you want them to spend eternity with Jesus and Elvis rather than in eternal torment? If you really believe what you've been spouting, it follows that you should get some firearms and ammo and head to the nearest kindergarten to impart some Christian love.

Dixon

[NudeTea]

Yeah, it's me; Stephe. I'll have to meet your friend someday. Sounds like an interesting individual.


Thanks for your interest in the original post, NudeTea (is that you, Stephe?) I really did post this for a friend. He's in his 90's and has mostly lost his ability to use a computer. If you've had related experiences (I haven't that I'm aware of), he'd probably be interested in talking with you - or anyone else with a serious interest in the subject of this thread.

[Dixon]

Has anyone who has already posted here actually read the bible?

I've read most of it (the King James version, which is the only version accepted as being inerrant by the fundie church I was involved in at the time). I had been induced to accept the absurd notion that not only was the Bible the inerrant word of God, but also the King James version was inerrantly translated. I know, I know, that's stupid, but I was just an innocent kid at the time and had fallen in with the wrong crowd--a bunch of Bible-thumpers who had such an infantile need for certainty (however phony) that they were willing to kid themselves that they had an inerrant rule book from a superpowerful father figure who was on their side. I even did some preaching from the Bible as a teenager, a sin that I've been trying to make up for ever since by spreading rationality.

And speaking of King James, he is quoted by Squanto's biographer Feenie Ziner as giving thanks to "...Almighty God in his great goodness and bounty towards us..." for sending "...this wonderful plague among the salvages [sic]" (referring to a plague that had horribly decimated American Indians). A nasty bastard like most kings, this is the guy who oversaw the purportedly inerrant Bible translation that bears his name. Kinda like having the President Bush translation.

In fairness, the Bible, being a mishmash of all kinds of stuff written over a period of centuries, from the boring "begats" to the folk sayings of Proverbs to the hallucinatory grotesquery of the Revelation of St. John the Divine, has some wisdom and beauty mixed in with the misogyny, imperialism, homophobia, intolerance, silliness, and antirationality--but not enough to redeem it.

For great insight into the Bible and its accuracy or lack of it, I highly recommend geomancer's fascinating post on WaccoReader called "Bart Ehrman on the Bible". I learned a lot from it.

Yours in Christ--not!

Dixon

[Skook]

Speaking of crazed fundie political leaders, I shudder to think what might have happened had Sarah Palin been a 72 year old heartbeat away from the presidency.


I've read most of it (the King James version, which is the only version accepted as being inerrant by the fundie church I was involved in at the time). I had been induced to accept the absurd notion that not only was the Bible the inerrant word of God, but also the King James version was inerrantly translated. I know, I know, that's stupid, but I was just an innocent kid at the time and had fallen in with the wrong crowd--a bunch of Bible-thumpers who had such an infantile need for certainty (however phony) that they were willing to kid themselves that they had an inerrant rule book from a superpowerful father figure who was on their side. I even did some preaching from the Bible as a teenager, a sin that I've been trying to make up for ever since by spreading rationality.

And speaking of King James, he is quoted by Squanto's biographer Feenie Ziner as giving thanks to "...Almighty God in his great goodness and bounty towards us..." for sending "...this wonderful plague among the salvages [sic]" (referring to a plague that had horribly decimated American Indians). A nasty bastard like most kings, this is the guy who oversaw the purportedly inerrant Bible translation that bears his name. Kinda like having the President Bush translation.

In fairness, the Bible, being a mishmash of all kinds of stuff written over a period of centuries, from the boring "begats" to the folk sayings of Proverbs to the hallucinatory grotesquery of the Revelation of St. John the Divine, has some wisdom and beauty mixed in with the misogyny, imperialism, homophobia, intolerance, silliness, and antirationality--but not enough to redeem it.

For great insight into the Bible and its accuracy or lack of it, I highly recommend geomancer's fascinating post on WaccoReader called "Bart Ehrman on the Bible". I learned a lot from it.

Yours in Christ--not!

Dixon

[Dixon]

Excellent point Smook, although the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, not Aramaic.

My understanding is that at least one or two books of the Old Testament were written in Aramaic, which is supposedly the language that Jesus spoke (assuming he even existed as a historical person, as opposed to a fully mythological version of the Solar Hero archetype).

Dixon

[Dixon]

...can you think of a better way to convince people that His way is the way to go than the possibility of eternal damnation. We are a stubborn people and it's the only way to get through to us. And those who choose Him and endure to the end are the kind of people He wants as companions...

Sounds like a classic abusive relationship.

Dixon

[Quintessence]

Yes, I have an interest in someone over 90 too. I have a real feel for the stories and situations as such, my Mother is 88 and I am 898. Apologies for not responding more directly and getting distracted by insubstantial postings. But, I don't, and I suppose others don't either, know what exactly the issue is. What are you asking?

--A friend would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable about the following:<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <o:p></o:p>
What efforts have been made to extend the concept of community beyond the physical plane to include those in the spirit world? In other words, does there exist a community of spiritual beings, some of whom are in bodies and some who are not in bodies. We’re especially interested in communities that are committed to justice and fairness to all who their decisions would impact.<o:p></o:p>--

Are you really asking about the world of ghosts, i.e., those who have died? You should really be specific, or else those who might have insights and opinions can't help, as we don't know what you are talking about. I, for one, have specific insights into the afterlife and ghosts, which I believe has experiential and possibly scientific grounding, but a question has to be specific and clear before it can have any potential answers. What does it mean not to have a body? Come on, everyone alive has a body. Does no one else have a problem here? I can imagine and have opinions about non-corporeal beings, but you are just like you-know-who and his abra-cadabra if you do not spell out what you mean. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. Or else, don't say it.

[MsTerry]

so God didn't allow any of these people killed who didn't deserve it.

Butch, I'd like you to expand a little bit more on this thought.
You see, Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld are clearly the hands of the devil at work, but they are still alive.
I think they have broken every single one of the Ten Commandments.
Tens of Thousands of good people have died because of them.
How can you reconcile that?

[Quintessence]

Butch, I'd like you to expand a little bit more on this thought.
You see, Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld are clearly the hands of the devil at work, but they are still alive.
I think they have broken every single one of the Ten Commandments.
Tens of Thousands of good people have died because of them.
How can you reconcile that?

MS. Terry, you do Butch a favor of assumption. Mr. Butch, do you not watch Fox News on a regular basis, with pleasure? Did you not vote for Bush twice and then McCain? These questions do a disservice to those of us who want an intelligent answer, from someone who does not know the language in which we want to speak. He only knows black and white, there is no gray. No questions, only answers from a book he does not even understand. Fox News, and your votes, Mr. Butch? Answer please, and reveal yourself in the truth you pretend to cloak yourself in.

[dw41552]

Butch, I'd like you to expand a little bit more on this thought.
You see, Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld are clearly the hands of the devil at work, but they are still alive.
I think they have broken every single one of the Ten Commandments.
Tens of Thousands of good people have died because of them.
How can you reconcile that?

Do you really think Obama is any better. A man who at the Saddleback forum professed being a born again Christian on national TV to millions of people and then 5 minutes later acknowledged supporting abortions. We true Christians are pro life, and I've never ever met another true Christian who wasn't. Obama is a fraud. The only reason he said he was a Christian was to get our votes, and he's pro choice because 70% of americans are too so he could get their votes also. He played both sides of the fence. He doesn't really care about this country. He's in it for the glory.

And yes I did vote for bush and McCain, because they're real. They weren't phony, and stood by their convictions even if it wasn't the popular thing to do. Bush did what he thought was right trying to protect the country he took a solumn oath to protect. As far as I know we haven't been attacked since. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor half the amount of Americans died that were killed on 9/11. And I tell you what, there wasn't near the complaining we hear today even though a hundred times the people died in that war than have died in this one. That's why President Reagan was one of the best presidents we've ever had, because he was a hard liner and didn't take any crap. Now we have a namby pamby president who thinks he's going to sweet talk and bow his way to peace when we're dealing with people who want nothing more than to see the annihilation of us and our country. And how smart is it to watch N.Korea test launch an ICBM and then the next day anounce he's going to cut funding for our missle defense system. How smart is it to pump billions of dollars into failing companies, and these are dollars they will never get back, and we're the ones who are going to have to pay for it.

As far as I know we haven't had a perfect president yet. some are better than others no doubt, but it's a tough and thankless job. No matter whos president people will find fault in him. heck, no one can please everyone. Look what they did to Jesus the most righteous man to ever walk on this earth.

MsTerry there are millions of evil people in this world who are still alive, and I wouldn't go so far as to say president Bush and his cabinet are all evil. I believe none of them relished the idea of sending our troups into harms way. But if we allow terrorists to keep terrorising us, they will never leave us alone. Everyone knows a bully from school. When we allow the bully to keep pushing us around without doing anything about it the more he pushes us around. but once we conquer our fear and stand up to him, 90% of the time he stops. How many more attacks would our country edured had president Bush done nothing at all. I believe thousand more would have died. not to mention the thousands of lives that have been spared by taking out the evil corrupt Iraq government.

God bless

[dw41552]

MS. Terry, you do Butch a favor of assumption. Mr. Butch, do you not watch Fox News on a regular basis, with pleasure? Did you not vote for Bush twice and then McCain? These questions do a disservice to those of us who want an intelligent answer, from someone who does not know the language in which we want to speak. He only knows black and white, there is no gray. No questions, only answers from a book he does not even understand. Fox News, and your votes, Mr. Butch? Answer please, and reveal yourself in the truth you pretend to cloak yourself in.

Yes I did vote for bush and McCain, and I also voted for Reagan. And yes 3 of my favorite Fox celebrities are Glenn Beck, Bill Oreily, and Sean Hannity, and I'm proud of it. Oooooooooo! I guess that makes me the epitome of evil. Some body grab a rope. And by the way didn't you send me an email yesterday morning telling me you won't get into a debate with me. What's happened since then that's changed your mind. Not that I mind because I enjoy the challenge. So bring it on sir. You should be up to it with all your clout and education.

Can you explain to me the words in red. How does one get answers without asking questions. Is not an answer a written or spoken reply to a question?
As far as the sentence in orange, I'm not even going to pretend I know what the heck you're talking about. What is your point?

The black and white.....nooo not me, I'm a colorful kind of guy :thumbsup:

As far as my honesty and integrity. You can ask MsTerry about that.

[MsTerry]

Butch, I'm surprised and disappointed that you don't see the devil in Bush. His godless past should have excluded him from any office.
He started a war on false pretenses and lies. He condoned and used terror and torture. He is responsible for the death of a few 100.000 people.
He destabilized a whole region.
I'm very disappointed you can't see the devil (in his deceiving and seductive way) at work here.


Do you really think Obama is any better.

Only time will tell.

[MsTerry]

As far as honesty and integrity. You can ask MsTerry about that.

Whose integrity do you want me to vouch for?
Yours or mine?

[Quintessence]

Well, it's obvious that you have all the answers, Mr. Butch, your posts speak for themselves. No questions, just answers. And the fact that your heroes on Fox are the idiotic hate-spewing liars that they are, plus your belief in a medieval semi-biblical ultra-simplistic worldview is what I mean by you don't know the language of the educated, open-minded people on here. You probably don't believe in evolution. And I decided to continue in this discussion because I feel like it, and I am fed up with know-it-alls like yourself thinking you are so right, and your job is to convert all of us lost souls. Your ignorance being revealed is also entertaining.

As for Obama, another misstatement conservative hacks like yourself make -- he is not "for" Abortion, he is for the right of people to choose that course of action. No one is "for" abortion, it is a terrible thing, but a worse thing is bringing another unwanted child into this world. But of course people like you with all the answers are very comfortable telling everyone else what they can and cannot do.

So, what are your questions, that you profess to have? Let's see if they don't all presume the answers you want.

It figures that you would support lying, hateful, divisive, torture-supporting characters like the Fox people and Cheney. Then you explain it away -- but how could you square that with the peace loving prophet you profess to follow, who said to "turn your swords into plowshares"? That should be a good one.


Yes I did vote for bush and McCain, and I also voted for Reagan. And yes 3 of my favorite Fox celebrities are Glenn Beck, Bill Oreily, and Sean Hannity, and I'm proud of it. Oooooooooo! I guess that makes me the epitome of evil. Some body grab a rope. And by the way didn't you send me an email yesterday morning telling me you won't get into a debate with me. What's happened since then that's changed your mind. Not that I mind because I enjoy the challenge. So bring it on sir. You should be up to it with all your clout and education.

Can you explain to me the words in red. How does one get answers without asking questions. Is not an answer a written or spoken reply to a question?
As far as the sentence in orange, I'm not even going to pretend I know what the heck you're talking about. What is your point?

The black and white.....nooo not me, I'm a colorful kind of guy :thumbsup:

As far as honesty and integrity. You can ask MsTerry about that.

[dw41552]

Butch, I'm surprised and disappointed that you don't see the devil in Bush. His godless past should have excluded him from any office.
He started a war on false pretenses and lies. He condoned and used terror and torture. He is responsible for the death of a few 100.000 people.
He destabilized a whole region.
I'm very disappointed you can't see the devil (in his deceiving and seductive way) at work here.



Only time will tell.

Does this mean you don't love me anymore? Big Smile

Sorry to disappoint, but I believe had president Bush not gone into Iraq hundreds of thousands more innocent people would have been killed. Saddam Hussein was an insane, psycho, brutal, oppressive dictator. He was executing an average of 100,000 of his own people every year. Now there was a man possessed by the devil. He was also an extreme threat to all of our allies in the area some of whom supply us with over 50% of our oil.

In my opinion President Bush is a good man who stepped into a very tough presidency. Do you really think he wanted to go to war knowing just how unpopular that would be? I just can't see him saying, "OK, now that I'm president let's go start a war somewhere and kill us a bunch of people." I did not envy his position, since he was surrounded by so many nut ball foreign leaders, such as Putin, (Russia) Chavez, (Venezuela) Kim, (N. Korea) Ahmadinejad, (Iran) just to name a few.

MsTerry we are surrounded by many countries who would love to see the end of this great country. so who ever is president has to be tough and willing to stand his ground. And remember it is actually the congress that runs this country. Most of what the president does has to be approved by them. The amount of corruption in our politicians is unbelievable, and who gets all the blame..... The president. He tried to get the Democrats and Republicans to work together. But with all the stubborn inflated egos, and greed, it was not possible. There is where you see devil at work.

Butch

[dw41552]

But if they live until the age of accountability, most of them will burn forever in the lake of fire, since only about one-third of the human race is Christian, and most of those aren't the "born again" type. So why are you wasting your time ranting on this thread when you should be out there killing children before they reach the age of accountability, thus guaranteeing their future in Heaven and saving them from an eternity of torment? Don't you love children? Don't you want them to spend eternity with Jesus and Elvis rather than in eternal torment? If you really believe what you've been spouting, it follows that you should get some firearms and ammo and head to the nearest kindergarten to impart some Christian love.

Dixon

Sorry sir, but that was such a childish and unintelligent response. I work with abused teens and that's something one of them would come up with. Let's try to be adults here. You don't have to hate me just because I think differently than you do.

[dw41552]

Well, it's obvious that you have all the answers, Mr. Butch, your posts speak for themselves. No questions, just answers. And the fact that your heroes on Fox are the idiotic hate-spewing liars that they are, plus your belief in a medieval semi-biblical ultra-simplistic worldview is what I mean by you don't know the language of the educated, open-minded people on here. You probably don't believe in evolution. And I decided to continue in this discussion because I feel like it, and I am fed up with know-it-alls like yourself thinking you are so right, and your job is to convert all of us lost souls. Your ignorance being revealed is also entertaining.

Ok sir. here's the difference between you and I. We disagree on politics. Hey, no big deal. Then like a child you lash out with name calling. Hey if that helps make you feel better about yourself, have at it. You know sticks and stones. The path I share with people leads to a fulfilling, purpose filled life, and then an eternity of companionship with God and eternal bliss beyond our wildest dreams.

You insinuate I have a closed mind. Well sir it seems to me it takes a pretty open mind to have faith in someone I can't see, feel, touch, smell, or hear and His teachings, wouldn't you agree?

As for Obama, another misstatement conservative hacks like yourself make -- he is not "for" Abortion, he is for the right of people to choose that course of action. No one is "for" abortion, it is a terrible thing, but a worse thing is bringing another unwanted child into this world. But of course people like you with all the answers are very comfortable telling everyone else what they can and cannot do.

Have you seen a sonogram of a child at nine weeks after conception. Looks pretty human huh? Well that's because he/she is a human being. and most abortions are done from 9 weeks on. This is murder plain and simple because the moment of conception a human life begins!! no one has the right to choose whether or not a child lives or dies. And I might add sir, they are not unwanted children. Maybe the mother doesn't want to raise this innocent child but there are many, many, married couples out there that can't have children such as my own daughter who do want that child. Any way the point I was really trying to make which you obviously didn't get was that Obama claims to be a born again Christian and pro choice. We Christians cannot be pro choice. He claimed to be a Christian and pro choice to get both sides votes. Pretty despicable if you ask me.

So, what are your questions, that you profess to have? Let's see if they don't all presume the answers you want.

Here's one for you. The path that you suggest, where does it ultimately lead?

It figures that you would support lying, hateful, divisive, torture-supporting characters like the Fox people and Cheney. Then you explain it away -- but how could you square that with the peace loving prophet you profess to follow, who said to "turn your swords into plowshares"? That should be a good one.

I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong again. Jesus never said that at all. that comes from the old testament for the people of those times.

Isaiah 2:4 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=2&verse=4&version=51&context=verse)
The Lord will mediate between nations and will settle international disputes.They will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer fight against nation, nor train for war anymore.

Micah 4:3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=40&chapter=4&verse=3&version=51&context=verse)
The Lord will mediate between peoples and will settle disputes between strong nations far away.They will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer fight against nation, nor train for war anymore.

God bless

[MsTerry]

Sorry to disappoint, but I believe had president Bush not gone into Iraq hundreds of thousands more innocent people would have been killed.


Bush has destabilized Iraq with no end in sight.
The place has been bombed back to the middle ages.


Saddam Hussein was an insane, psycho, brutal, oppressive dictator. He was executing an average of 100,000 of his own people every year. Now there was a man possessed by the devil. He was also an extreme threat to all of our allies in the area some of whom supply us with over 50% of our oil.
A strange excuses to authorize regime change when there are many more dictators in the world. (we just kicked one out of the White House)


In my opinion President Bush is a good man who stepped into a very tough presidency. Do you really think he wanted to go to war knowing just how unpopular that would be? I just can't see him saying, "OK, now that I'm president let's go start a war somewhere and kill us a bunch of people." I did not envy his position, since he was surrounded by so many nut ball foreign leaders, such as Putin, (Russia) Chavez, (Venezuela) Kim, (N. Korea) Ahmadinejad, (Iran) just to name a few.

What would Jesus have done, Butch?


MsTerry we are surrounded by many countries who would love to see the end of this great country. so who ever is president has to be tough and willing to stand his ground. And remember it is actually the congress that runs this country. Most of what the president does has to be approved by them. The amount of corruption in our politicians is unbelievable, and who gets all the blame..... The president. He tried to get the Democrats and Republicans to work together. But with all the stubborn inflated egos, and greed, it was not possible. There is where you see devil at work.

Butch
Butch, I thought you were able to see Evil when you saw it.
If you don't think torture is evil and the people that order it, I think you should be ashamed of yourself for ever associating yourself with Jesus again.

[Skook]

You really can't blame Butch, we have the greatest propaganda machine in the history of the world, which is evil in and of itself. Intellectually lazy people don't stand a chance. It's appalling that so many Fox vidiots still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

It's also amazing that so many people don't realize that Saddam was one of our favorite puppets for 40 years (in spite of the famous photo showing him shaking Rumsfeld's hand), only until he threatened to sell oil for Euros instead of dollars did we see the need to intervene on behalf of his people.

Hey Butch, check this out;
Richard Sale, UPI Intelligence Correspondent, "Saddam key in early CIA plot," From the International Desk, Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM (https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/saddam.htm)



Butch, I thought you were able to see Evil when you saw it. If you don't think torture is evil and the people that order it, I think you should be ashamed of yourself for ever associating yourself with Jesus again.

[MsTerry]

I disagree.
Butch says that Jesus is his guide, not Fox.
Not knowing what Fox is or stands for myself, I am surprised that someone who follows Jesus,is wiling to associate with a divisive figure such as Hennety.
Name-calling, yeah, but love thy neighbor will never come from hennety and the likes.


You really can't blame Butch, we have the greatest propaganda machine in the history of the world, which is evil in and of itself. Intellectually lazy people don't stand a chance. It's appalling that so many Fox vidiots still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

It's also amazing that so many people don't realize that Saddam was one of our favorite puppets for 40 years (in spite of the famous photo showing him shaking Rumsfeld's hand), only until he threatened to sell oil for Euros instead of dollars did we see the need to intervene on behalf of his people.

Hey Butch, check this out;
Richard Sale, UPI Intelligence Correspondent, "Saddam key in early CIA plot," From the International Desk, Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM (https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/saddam.htm)

[Skook]

It IS very odd to hear people claim to be christian yet defend invading a country that posed no threat to us, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in the process.


I disagree.
Butch says that Jesus is his guide, not Fox.
Not knowing what Fox is or stands for myself, I am surprised that someone who follows Jesus,is wiling to associate with a divisive figure such as Hennety.
Name-calling, yeah, but love thy neighbor will never come from hennety and the likes.

[dw41552]

It IS very odd to hear people claim to be christian yet defend invading a country that posed no threat to us, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in the process.

You guys crack me up. This right here is one of the problems with this country. Like most you'll sit around moaning, groaning and complaining about how bad our country, our politicians, and our president is, yet are you doing anything about it? how many of you have written your congressman, your state representative, or the president in the last 6 months? Anyone who doesn't at least write their state representatives and vote has no right to complain about anything they don't like that's happening in this country. And yes I do write my congressman, my state representative, and the president quite often, and I vote.

I don't hear anybody complaining about the 67 million civilian deaths as a result of WW2. We didn't have to go fight Hitler either. He was no threat to us, but he was to our allies. So what makes this war so evil and so different except the amount of casualties which is less than .0025% of what they were in WW2.

Look I don't know much about politics, and that's not what I came here to discuss anyway. I vote for who I vote for, I believe what I believe, and if no one likes it, to bad!!! I don't really care! I don't choose who I vote for or what to believe to please others! Does that make me an evil person? Has anything I've said here been evil? Has anything I've shared here hurt anyone? I came here to discuss what I do know about and that is the way of my God and my savior. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I share and it's your choice whether to except it or reject it.

God bless

[MsTerry]

You guys crack me up. This right here is one of the problems with this country. Like most you'll sit around moaning, groaning and complaining about how bad our country, our politicians, and our president is, yet are you doing anything about it? how many of you have written your congressman, your state representative, or the president in the last 6 months? Anyone who doesn't at least write their state representatives and vote has no right to complain about anything they don't like that's happening in this country. And yes I do write my congressman, my state representative, and the president quite often, and I vote.

WE voted and got rid of Dr Evil and his henchman.
You do know that they are prosecuted for war crimes right now, right?


I don't hear anybody complaining about the 67 million civilian deaths as a result of WW2. We didn't have to go fight Hitler either. He was no threat to us, but he was to our allies. So what makes this war so evil and so different except the amount of casualties which is less than .0025% of what they were in WW2.Hitler was out for world domination, our Sadam was content to stay put.

Look I don't know much about politics, and that's not what I came here to discuss anyway. I vote for who I vote for, I believe what I believe, and if no one likes it, to bad!!! I don't really care! I don't choose who I vote for or what to believe to please others! Does that make me an evil person? Has anything I've said here been evil? Has anything I've shared here hurt anyone? I came here to discuss what I do know about and that is the way of my God and my savior. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I share and it's your choice whether to except it or reject it.Is torture the way of your God?
Shame on you Butch, Jesus would've never supported your choice.

[dw41552]

WE voted and got rid of Dr Evil and his henchman.
You do know that they are prosecuted for war crimes right now, right?
Hitler was out for world domination, our Sadam was content to stay put.
Is torture the way of your God?
Shame on you Butch, Jesus would've never supported your choice.

Uuuuhhhhh, MsTerry. Please show me which post where I said I condone torture............................................................................. I'm waiting
............................................................................... I didn't think so.

Of course I don't condone torture. And I'm not saying President Bush didn't have anything to do with it. I'm sure he did, but I cannot condemn him for it. That's between he and God. But remember if he sincerely asks for forgivenesss for that sin, Jesus will forgive him. And by the way you act like I knew everything he was going to do when I voted for him. Give me a break. Personally I forgive him. I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing to protect our country. No excuse I know but no one was killed, seriously wounded, or permanently damaged. And let's not forget most of these people would just as soon put a bullet between your eyes as look at you because you're and Evil American.

Oh and no you did not vote and get rid of anyone. His second term was up. And they will never be prosecuted. Other presidents have done a lot worse and I've never heard of any of them being prosecuted.

You really believe that if Saddam Hussein had the military might that Hitler had he would have stayed put. We went after saddam for exactly the same reason we went after Hitler, to protect our allies and our oil interests. So please explain to me the difference between now and then. And by the way we tortured thousands more people then than we did this time.

[MsTerry]

Uuuuhhhhh, MsTerry. Please show me which post where I said I condone torture............................................................................. I'm waiting
............................................................................... I didn't think so.

.
Why don't you read what you just wrote.
You'll forgive him, even though he doesn't think he has done anything wrong?????????????????
I call that condoning, since you are not condemning those actions. In fact you are coming up with excuses, to show that it is OK to sink to the lowest level possible.



No excuse I know but no one was killed, seriously wounded, or permanently damaged.
That's a lie!
I'm not surprised that's coming from someone who listens to Hate-Radio

And let's not forget most of these people would just as soon put a bullet between your eyes as look at you because you're and Evil American.
And what would Jesus do with those people?
Torture them?


Oh and no you did not vote and get rid of anyone. His second term was up.
We stopped the continuation of an evil republican empire.

And they will never be prosecuted.
I suggest you read the news.


You really believe that if Saddam Hussein had the military might that Hitler had he would have stayed put. We went after saddam for exactly the same reason we went after Hitler, to protect our allies and our oil interests. So please explain to me the difference between now and then
If you don't know the difference by now, you are worse of than I thought


And by the way we tortured thousands more people then than we did this time
And Jesus told you that therefore it is OK? :hmmm:

[dw41552]

Why don't you read what you just wrote.
You'll forgive him, even though he doesn't think he has done anything wrong?????????????????
I call that condoning, since you are not condemning those actions. In fact you are coming up with excuses, to show that it is OK to sink to the lowest level possible.

MsTerry, as a Christian I cannot condemn the man, I do condemn the actions, and given the chance to come face to face with the man I would tell him such, and suggest he repent. If like you say he thinks he was justified in what he did and never regrets it, and does not sincerely ask God for forgiveness, God Himself will take care of President Bush His way, whether he is prosecuted ot not. I am not a lawyer or a judge. I don't know all the details. I believe in a fair trial and that everyone is innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doupt. I do not believe in condemning the man just because you think I should. I am my own man and I make my own decisions. That's not to say I could not learn from you, but ultimately what ever you teach me, it is up to me to make the decision whether to reject or except it and visa versa.



That's a lie!
I'm not surprised that's coming from someone who listens to Hate-Radio

The only thing I listen to on the radio is Christian music and preaching. I think what you are refering to is I watch Fox news. I don't see hate on fox. I don't agree with everything they say but I don't see hate. I see journalists trying to keep politicians accountable for their actions which is a very tough job considering there is so much government curruption.

By the way, since Fox news conception in 1996 the amount of viewers has grown from 10 million to 102 million. It is the top rated of all the major news channels as well as the least biased. So there must be something to what they're reporting.

And what would Jesus do with those people?
Torture them?

I have an ironic answer for you. On judgement day Jesus is going to judge every one of us, and billions are going to be found guilty and thrown into hell to suffer eternal damnation. The rest will be taken to be God's people, His companions. And live the rest of eternity in utter bliss.


We stopped the continuation of an evil republican empire.

And voted in an evil democratic empire. Come on! There are just as many corrupt democrats as there are corrupt republicans. So by putting democrats in charge you didn't do anyone any favors. We still have a corrupt government, way too much of it, with way too much power over us. They should change the opening statement of the constitution from, "We the people" to, "We the government."

I suggest you read the news.

If you don't know the difference by now, you are worse of than I thought

I do watch the news but I want to hear it in your words so please explain to me what the difference is. If I'm so lost you don't want me to stay that way would you?


And Jesus told you that therefore it is OK? :hmmm:

Told me what?

God Bless

[MsTerry]

You really are a piece of work, Buch!
Talking to you is like dancing with the devil.
Let's see if you are going to evade the following questions too.
Does Jesus condone torture?
Do you believe that the people at Guantanomo Bay are innocent until proven guilty?
Do you believe that people are allowed to carry out the death penalty?

Here is some info for you regarding Bush's culpability, in case you missed it.
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccoreader/51615-bush-six.html#post87225

i don't have a TV, so I can't judge Fox, but you mentioned Sean Hennety and he is on the radio spewing hate, just like Rush Bimbo. And that was one of your sources of reference.

less

[hales]

Hey, Someguy..

How is it possible to have a logical discussion about life after death, based on the bible? There have to be some agreed upon postulates to have a logical argument, and someone who accepts the stories in the bible as fact or as truth, is a true believer, not a logical thinker. I have beliefs that I can't defend as logical, but I don't claim them to be logical, only my own truth, ie: beliefs based on my own reflection, experiences, reading, etc.

I suppose you could have an educated and informed discussion about biblical history, research, and theology, with those who are knowledgeable about that. And you could discuss cosmology wiht those who have studied comparative cosmology, etc.. Hower, I guess maybe you believe that if someone claimed to have direct spiritual experience of spiritual worlds and beings, that person would have to be decieved by the devil, and damned. I never understood how come there are stories about God talking to people, and various holy miracles performed by people 2000 years ago, but if that happens now, then it's the devil's work. I know there is probably an argument about this, but I just find it hard to swallow.

It's not really a logical argument when you have a "backdoor" that allows you to discount your opponent's arguments, by claiming they are decieved by the devil.

I have not studied the bible extensively, btw. I don't even claim to be particularly logical, however I do appreciate those who can speak clearly and congruently about their experience, rather than leaning on dogma, or on distorted arguments.

Scott.



It was not a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question would go a little something like this: I wonder if anyone here has actually read the bible? So please dont get annoyed.

Im seriously interested in knowing if any of you actually know what you are talking about. And after reading all of the posts here, Id like to know if I should jump in and have a logical discussion with informed people or not jump in because Ill be having to discuss this with a bunch of people spouting off second hand information.

[dw41552]

You really are a piece of work, Buch!
Talking to you is like dancing with the devil.
Let's see if you are going to evade the following questions too.
Does Jesus condone torture?
Do you believe that the people at Guantanomo Bay are innocent until proven guilty?
Do you believe that people are allowed to carry out the death penalty?


Here is some info for you regarding Bush's culpability, in case you missed it.
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccoreader/51615-bush-six.html#post87225

i don't have a TV, so I can't judge Fox, but you mentioned Sean Hennety and he is on the radio spewing hate, just like Rush Bimbo. And that was one of your sources of reference.


MsTerry MsTerry MsTerry

How much longer shall I endure. You have eyes but do not see. You have ears but do not hear. If talking to me is like dancing with the devil why do you do it? Doesn't make sense. I challenge you to come up with one thing that shows I'm so evil. This will be the last time I will comment on this subject. If you do not understand then I have nothing further to say about this.

I do not condone torture just as Jesus doesn't. I try to be a forgiving person just as Jesus is. I cannot condemn anyone. That is left to the courts, and ultimately to God. I think I made myself very clear when I said I believe in a fair trial, and that everyone is innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, which right you have denied me, and president Bush. You have already condemned us both. As far as the death penalty, I don't like it but I think it is a necessary evil to discourage cold blooded murder.

let me ask you a question. Was it Ok to shoot those three pirates to save Captain Phillips even though they hadn't killed anyone yet, and had no trial.

As far as Sean Hannity he is not a source of reference. I just watch his show once in a while. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. So stop putting words in my mouth.

The big difference between you and I is you have no tolerence for people who don't think exactly like you do. And how boring a world this would be if they did. Everyone is different, with some different ideas so get used to it. I could be the nicest person you ever met but there are still going to be people out there that hate me. I DON"T CARE!!!!! Take me as I am or don't take me at all. You can always put me on ignore if you don't like me or my beliefs.

God bless

[MsTerry]

MsTerry MsTerry MsTerry

How much longer shall I endure. You have eyes but do not see. You have ears but do not hear. If talking to me is like dancing with the devil why do you do it? Doesn't make sense. I challenge you to come up with one thing that shows I'm so evil. This will be the last time I will comment on this subject. If you do not understand then I have nothing further to say about this.

Butch, I never said the Devil is evil. YOU did.
You condem the devil without trial or jury. You do the same with me. I do hear and see, just not the same thing as you.
Does that make me evil?


I do not condone torture just as Jesus doesn't. I try to be a forgiving person just as Jesus is. I cannot condemn anyone. That is left to the courts, and ultimately to God. I think I made myself very clear when I said I believe in a fair trial, and that everyone is innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, which right you have denied me, and president Bush. You have already condemned us both.
I'm glad to hear that you condemn murder, Cheney has admitted that he and Bush approved torture and the link I send you has the proof that he signed off on it. Cheney is proud of it too. Do you need more proof?

As far as the death penalty, I don't like it but I think it is a necessary evil to discourage cold blooded murder.
the death penalty IS cold blooded murder and has not prevented one single murder either


let me ask you a question. Was it Ok to shoot those three pirates to save Captain Phillips even though they hadn't killed anyone yet, and had no trial.
Do you think that situation is similar to the Electric Chair?


As far as Sean Hannity he is not a source of reference. I just watch his show once in a while. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. So stop putting words in my mouth.
What did I put in your mouth???


The big difference between you and I is you have no tolerence for people who don't think exactly like you do.
This is quite a judgmental statement.
without a trial.
I have many Jehovah Witnesses as friends and neighbors, with mutual respect


And how boring a world this would be if they did. Everyone is different, with some different ideas so get used to it.
I am used to it, I enjoy it, but I will still point out hypocrites when I see them.

I could be the nicest person you ever met but there are still going to be people out there that hate me. I DON"T CARE!!!!! Take me as I am or don't take me at all. You can always put me on ignore if you don't like me or my beliefs.
I think you have a hard time accepting other people's beliefs.
If people don't follow your line of thinking, you send them to hell.
I don't hate you Butch, I pray for you.
I pray that you will see the light and accept that we are all going to the same place after death, regardless of what we did.

[dw41552]

Butch, I never said the Devil is evil. YOU did.
You condem the devil without trial or jury. You do the same with me. I do hear and see, just not the same thing as you.
Does that make me evil?

That doesn't make sense. Why would you make the satement, "talking to you is like dancing with the devil" If you didn't think he and I were evil?

dev·il

NOUN:
1 often Devil In many religions, the major personified spirit of evil, ruler of
Hell, and foe of God.
2 A subordinate evil spirit; a demon.
3 A wicked or malevolent person.

The Devil has already been condemned by God. His fate is sealed. I have no need to condemn him. I do not condemn you either. God is teaching me to love all, though I admit it is very hard. We are all evil by nature, and yes that includes me. No one ever had to teach us how to do bad, because it comes natural. It's much harder to be good than it is to be bad. It is much harder for us to be forgiving than it is to hold a grudge. It is much harder for us to be patient than impatient. we are much quicker to anger than we are to love. We see the bad before we see the good. We are all flawed. This is why we need Jesus. He willingly died a very brutal death for our sins to save us because we are not capable of conquering sin on our own, so He did it for us. And because I believe in Him and try my best to live my life according to the way God wants me to, I am saved. And the Spirit of God living in me makes me much more aware of my evil nature, and gives me much more strength to resist temptation. MsTerry. If you knew me twenty years ago, you would see that I am a walking talking miracle. This does't mean I'm perfect or better than you or anyone else. If I didn't care about you and the rest of the people in this forum I would not waste the many hours I use to respond to your questions and accusations. I wish for everyone to make it to heaven, as does Jesus. Unfortunately not everyone will make it. God doesn't want people for companions who turn their back on Him, who put someone or some thing before Him, especially since he created that someone or something. Would you want to hang around people who don't care about you, who dislike you, or even hate you. I know I don't, but I do pray for them. I can't stress strongly enough, there is a devil and he hates us all, because he knows his fate, so he's going to try and drag as many people down with him as he can. He will use any means necessary. He is the father of lies and deception and is very powerful and he uses that power to fool many. Examples:

devil: Getting high on drugs or alcohol feels great. Go ahead try it, it's Ok, and you'll love it trust me, and nothing bad will happen. Bad things happen to other people, not you.

God: Please don't have anything to do with drugs or alcohol. They might make you feel good for a short time but it's not worth the millions of people killed and the millions of families destoyed every year because of them. Something bad could happen to you as a result, and I don't want that to happen because I love you. But the choice is yours.

devil: Hey sex is great man, you should try it. You don't have to be married. Besides you need to try it out before going that far, because what if she/he isn't any good. Don't worry just use a condom and you'll be fine, come on go for it.

God: I created sex for two reasons, 1 for procreation, and 2 for the enjoyment between two people, a man and a woman who are genuinely in love and become one in marriage. Do not use it for other than it was intended for otherwise these bad things will continue, such as: hundreds of millions of abortions to date that we know of, and out of those, 42% were using some form of contreceptive when they got pregnant. So much for safe sex, (no such thing). Then there's the STDs that kill millions every year. And let's not forget the millions of babies having babies and the millions of single moms. And how about the millions of my prescious little ones who are born in extreme poverty that starve to death all over the world. All because you have'nt learned to control your selfish desires and refuse to live according to my way. But I still love you, and the choice is yours.

devil: Hey don't worry about your neighbor, just worry about yourself, He probably doesn't care about you, so why should you care about him. You are nuber one, so go take what you can no matter who it hurts. You deserve it, and you don't have to share anything with any one because you earned it yourself.

God: Love me with all your heart, soul, mind, and strenght. Also love others as you love yourself. Were all of you to live according to these two commands this world would be a paradise.


I'm glad to hear that you condemn murder, Cheney has admitted that he and Bush approved torture and the link I send you has the proof that he signed off on it. Cheney is proud of it too. Do you need more proof?

No!!! I don't like it but I don't lose sleep over it either. I know from experience that we reap what we sew. You know, "what goes around, comes around." If they are guilty it will eventually catch up with them. If we lost sleep because of every crime commited in this world none of us would sleep.

the death penalty IS cold blooded murder and has not prevented one single murder either

You can't say that with 100% certainty. You're telling me that if every state used the death penalty that not one person would ever think twice about murdering someone. That's an assumption impossible to make unless you can read everyones minds.


Do you think that situation is similar to the Electric Chair?

Answer my question with an answer, not another question, then I will answer your qestion.


What did I put in your mouth???

You said I use hannity as a reference.

This is quite a judgmental statement.
without a trial.
I have many Jehovah Witnesses as friends and neighbors, with mutual respect.

One of my best friends is a JW. But we do not agree when it comes to religion. We maintain our friendship by agreeing to disagree and leave it at that, and I pray for Him.


I am used to it, I enjoy it, but I will still point out hypocrites when I see them.
I think you have a hard time accepting other people's beliefs.
If people don't follow your line of thinking, you send them to hell.

I don't have a hard time, I absloutely do not except a lot of people's beliefs period. That doesn't mean I hate them, wish them harm in any way, or think I am better than they as I stated in the first paragraph above. I do not send anyone to hell. I don't have that kind of power, and glad I don't. It is up to God who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. I don't make the rules, I just try my best to follow them.

I don't hate you Butch, I pray for you.
I pray that you will see the light and accept that we are all going to the same place after death, regardless of what we did.

Thanks for your prayers, Lord knows I need all the help I can get. However I do see the light, but I do not except that we are going to the same place no matter what we did. What you're saying is that the man that raped my 6 year old granddaughter is in heaven even though he did not repent for what he did before he died. No, trust me, he is in hell. I don't wish hell on anyone, but that's the two choices God has given us along with the freedom to choose either. So those that end up in hell have no one to blame but themselves. I tell you what, the thought of hell scares the heck out of me and has definately helped me make the choice I made.

MsTerry It is obvious I will never change your mind and you will never change mine so I suggest we stop here and agree to disagree. Just know that I wish you nothing but the best and will continue to pray for you. I enjoy answering any of your questions.

God bless

[MsTerry]

MsTerry It is obvious I will never change your mind and you will never change mine so I suggest we stop here and agree to disagree. Just know that I wish you nothing but the best and will continue to pray for you. I enjoy answering any of your questions.

God bless

OK, I can see how confused you are.
So let's take one subject at a time.
So far I have noticed that you believe in two Gods.
one good one (God) and one bad one (the Devil)
Both of their jobs it is to collect souls and they get to choose what to do with them.
You said "We are all evil by nature, and yes that includes me." now how does that reconcile with the Good God who made us all in his image?
Is the Good God actually the Bad God?
Are they one and the same?

[dw41552]

OK, I can see how confused you are.
So let's take one subject at a time.
So far I have noticed that you believe in two Gods.
one good one (God) and one bad one (the Devil)
Both of their jobs it is to collect souls and they get to choose what to do with them.
You said "We are all evil by nature, and yes that includes me." now how does that reconcile with the Good God who made us all in his image?
Is the Good God actually the Bad God?
are they one and the same?


Because I've obviously been wasting my time here and you have your mind made up that nothing I say is true, this is my last response.

Yes I used to be very confused. But since I've invited Jesus Christ into my life as my Lord and Savior, I Am so sure of my beliefs that I stake mine and my own son's life on it, as I have led him to believe the same.

Good By and God bless

[Neshamah]

I am going to attempt to weigh in on the original question.

I know enough to know that we are not going to know all the answers. In fact, I tend to be skeptical about the ability of us finite beings to really, truly, know anything for certain. Our senses and the tools we use to extend them are all limited. So, make what you will of my answers.

Are we not ourselves spirit beings? I have long considered spirit to be another form of physical just as physical is both matter and energy. I think it is possible to communicate in ways not physically explainable, and that there may very well be spirit individuals that would not be physically detectable. Many religions forbid making such contacts, and that may be wise. Personally, when I am barely awake, I am convinced I can communicate with my soul mate whom I have yet to meet, though I can never be sure of what he might say.

To very quickly hit on some of the later posts, I have read several translations of the Hebrew Bible and maybe two translations of the New Testament. The former was not originally intended for everyone, but since I believe G-d is ultimately in control, it is necessarily written exactly as G-d intends though that does not mean what it says is obvious or meant for everyone. (I suppose I could say the same about War and Peace.) On the surface, Scripture is full of contradictions, and forces the interested reader to think very hard about what might be meant.

Oh, politics. Are non-physical spirit beings taxable? We have to subsidize corporate incompetence somehow.

I think I hit everything!

~ Neshamah

[Valley Oak]

You certainly did, Neshema!

You have removed all doubt that you are another nutcase, just like Butch, above.

This also helps explain your support of Ron Paul, yet another nutcase.

Edward



I am going to attempt to weigh in on the original question.

I know enough to know that we are not going to know all the answers. In fact, I tend to be skeptical about the ability of us finite beings to really, truly, know anything for certain. Our senses and the tools we use to extend them are all limited. So, make what you will of my answers.

Are we not ourselves spirit beings? I have long considered spirit to be another form of physical just as physical is both matter and energy. I think it is possible to communicate in ways not physically explainable, and that there may very well be spirit individuals that would not be physically detectable. Many religions forbid making such contacts, and that may be wise. Personally, when I am barely awake, I am convinced I can communicate with my soul mate whom I have yet to meet, though I can never be sure of what he might say.

To very quickly hit on some of the later posts, I have read several translations of the Hebrew Bible and maybe two translations of the New Testament. The former was not originally intended for everyone, but since I believe G-d is ultimately in control, it is necessarily written exactly as G-d intends though that does not mean what it says is obvious or meant for everyone. (I suppose I could say the same about War and Peace.) On the surface, Scripture is full of contradictions, and forces the interested reader to think very hard about what might be meant.

Oh, politics. Are non-physical spirit beings taxable? We have to subsidize corporate incompetence somehow.

I think I hit everything!

~ Neshamah

[Valley Oak]

Neshamah's real identity:

His name is Jessie Priester and is a resident of Newark, Delaware. Here is his personal website running for POTUS for 2008:
JessePriester2008 (https://www.jessepriester2008.com)
And:
Jesse Priester for Delaware Representative, District 23 - The Libertarian and Republican Alternatative to Teresa L. Schooley | Libertarian Party of Delaware (https://www.de.lp.org/elections/2008/priester)
(Mr. Priester cannot decide if he is a Republican or a Libertarian).

Mr. Priester is against abortion despite being a 'Libertarian!' He also appears to be a closet case but doesn't realize it yet. I'm willing to be my bottom dollar that Mr. Priester is actually gay but is in denial because of his 'faith.' Take a look at his photos (cute?).

He is another reactionary, religious fanatic phony like so many conservatives and extremists in this country.

Edward

[phooph]

No excuse I know but no one was killed, seriously wounded, or permanently damaged. And let's not forget most of these people would just as soon put a bullet between your eyes as look at you because you're and Evil American.


Human Rights First’s new report,"Command’s Responsibility: Deaths in U.S. Custody in Iraq and Afghanistan," provides the first comprehensive accounting of the U.S. government’s handling of the nearly 100 cases of detainees who have died in U.S. custody since 2002. In its report, Human Rights First looked at some of the most troubling abuse cases,including up to 12 cases in which people were tortured to death. The report found that flawed investigations and a lack of punishment, especially at the highest levels, has lead to a culture of impunity on abuse.

Despite the number of deaths of prisoners in U.S. custody, as of February 2006, only 12 detainee deaths have resulted in any kind of punishment for any U.S. official, military or civilian. The report finds that often the more serious the case – particularly those involving people tortured to death – the less severe the punishment; the highest sentence in a torture-related death is five months in prison. Based on this, Human Rights First concluded that a gap exists between policies leadership says it respects on paper, and behavior it actually tolerates in practice.

Having listened to interviews with prisoners later release because they were found to be innocent of any terrorist involvement and interviews with therapists who have worked with these people, they all sustained permanent damage. For many it was emotional - post traumatic stress disorder and these people and their friends and relatives are now sworn enemies of the US if they weren't before.

In Bagram prison a taxi driver was tortured to death. It had been determined that he was only a taxi driver before he was killed but the information did not reach the troops in his cell block who decided one more time to try to get him to "confess." How do you think his friends and family feel about America now? A film has been made of this particular incident because it was so egregious.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/WX0MPcN08Zc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/WX0MPcN08Zc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[MsTerry]

Butch, this is not fair.
You offered to answer my questions.
What i did was reflecting back what I heard you say (write).
If I did not tell the truth, you should tell me so, and show me where.
Maybe you were surprised at what you said?


Because I've obviously been wasting my time here and you have your mind made up that nothing I say is true, this is my last response.

Yes I used to be very confused. But since I've invited Jesus Christ into my life as my Lord and Savior, I Am so sure of my beliefs that I stake mine and my own son's life on it, as I have led him to believe the same.

Good By and God bless

[dw41552]

Butch, this is not fair.
You offered to answer my questions.
What i did was reflecting back what I heard you say (Wrong)
If I did not tell the truth, you should tell me so, and show me where.
Maybe you were surprised at what you said?

MsTerry don't talk to me about fair. I came here and shared a better way of life. I've been nothing but patient, kind, and respectful, and all I got in return was to be labled ignorent or the devil himself. I answer all your questions, but when I ask you one, you answer with another question.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">let me ask you a question. Was it Ok to shoot those three pirates to save Captain Phillips even though they hadn't killed anyone yet, and had no trial. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Do you think that situation is similar to the Electric Chair?

This is the third time I've had to tell you people this. If the people you are acusing of torture are found Guilty and did the things you all say they did. then they deseve to be punished no doubt. But all of you are asking me to make judgement and condemn these people. That is not up to me. You guys sound like a linch mob ready to hang these people without a trial. That's not justice.

And if I thought you were honestly looking for an honest answer instead of being sarcastic and trying to get me to look like something other than what I really am, I would be glad to answer your questions.

So far I have noticed that you believe in two Gods.
one good one (God) and one bad one (the Devil)

Again putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say that I believe in two Gods. And I'm not surprised at what I say. What I share I am very sure of. I don't just write everything off the top of my head. Why do you think it takes me so long to respond?

Here's another question for you. If you have a better way of life than the one I've explained to you, why don't you share it with me instead of constantly trying to beat me down.

God bless

[Quintessence]

Ms. Terry, bless you for trying, time to give up however. To quote Mr. Butch: " I Am so sure of my beliefs.................. and then he refers to the participants here as... "you People..." ......sounds like McCain talking about "That one...."

There will be no agreement, or meeting of the minds......... but Butch, you yourself said that Hannity and O'Reilly and Glenn Beck were your favorites..... and that you see no hate there............ sorry, but you are the one with no eyes to see. go look and listen again my friend. Calling Obama a fascist is not hateful????????????

God Bless

Jon

[Jude Iam]

hey yawl.
since this is such a wide-ranging discussion, on the topic of obama -
just google "obama deception" and watch the new 2 hour movie.
hard truth.
blessings on us all, judith

[MsTerry]

MsTerry don't talk to me about fair. I came here and shared a better way of life. I've been nothing but patient, kind, and respectful, and all I got in return was to be labled ignorent or the devil himself. I answer all your questions, but when I ask you one, you answer with another question.

OK Butch,, I'll try again.
I never said you were the Devil, nor do I think you are the Devil.
I said "Like dancing with the devil", you were all slippery and twisty and not answering Q's directly.


Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px inset ;" class="alt2">let me ask you a question. Was it Ok to shoot those three pirates to save Captain Phillips even though they hadn't killed anyone yet, and had no trial. </td></tr></tbody></table>
Do you think that situation is similar to the Electric Chair?
I don't know enough about that situation to have an opinion.
I wasn't there, were you? I don't have a TV either.
We were talking about the deathpenalty, and from there came my relevant Question.

This is the third time I've had to tell you people this. If the people you are acusing of torture are found Guilty and did the things you all say they did. then they deseve to be punished no doubt.They are proud of their actions and subsequent lies
But all of you are asking me to make judgement and condemn these people. That is not up to me. Fair enough
You guys sound like a linch mob ready to hang these people without a trial. That's not justice.
Actually that is why people are upset, The Guantanomo prisoners were going to be hanged without a trial.
In fact they are in prison without a trial!

And if I thought you were honestly looking for an honest answer instead of being sarcastic and trying to get me to look like something other than what I really am, I would be glad to answer your questions.Frankly, I wasn't sarcastic, (I can do better than that), I just noticed the contradiction in your beliefs and like to see your opinion


So far I have noticed that you believe in two Gods.
one good one (God) and one bad one (the Devil)

Again putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say that I believe in two Gods.Butch, it is you brought up the Devil not me.
I don't collect souls, I don't know anyone who does, but you know TWO entities who do.
Any entitiy who is omnipotent and has a place to receive people in the afterlife is a God in my book. You your self said he is very powerful and put him on the same level as your other God.




And I'm not surprised at what I say. What I share I am very sure of. I don't just write everything off the top of my head.
I still haven't told me what a soul is, even though you keep referring to it.


Why do you think it takes me so long to respond?I have no idea how long it takes you to write a response


Here's another question for you. If you have a better way of life than the one I've explained to you, why don't you share it with me instead of constantly trying to beat me down. How about being compassionate and tolerant, not because we can earn a place in heaven, but because we are here.


God bless Do you believe God is a he or a she?

[dw41552]

Ms. Terry, bless you for trying, time to give up however. To quote Mr. Butch: " I Am so sure of my beliefs.................. and then he refers to the participants here as... "you People..." ......sounds like McCain talking about "That one...."

Hey if, "you people" truly offends you I do apologise. However I think that's getting a little nit picky, don't you? I meant no direspect.

There will be no agreement, or meeting of the minds......... but Butch, you yourself said that Hannity and O'Reilly and Glenn Beck were your favorites..... and that you see no hate there............ sorry, but you are the one with no eyes to see. go look and listen again my friend. Calling Obama a fascist is not hateful????????????

God Bless

Jon

I said they are 3 of my favorites on fox. there are others on other channels I'm sorry! I don't see it. What I see is these guys trying to keep politicians accountable for their actions because there is so much curruption, and I think they do a pretty good job. Obviously the majority agree which is why they are the top rated news channel. O'reily has been #1 for the last eight years. If what you say is true that would mean that 102 million people that also watch them are all hate mongers, Shoot I myself called Obama a fraud because he's Christian one minute then pro choice the next. I'll say it again. One cannot be a Christian and pro choice. It's a serious conflict of interest. Doesn't mean I hate him, it just means I'm going to pray for him all that much more. Fascist, What do you expect when he forces a CEO to resign, not to mention how many corperations he's trying to nationalize. Personally I don't see him as a fascist but I understand where some people might. Who ever said that might see him that way but I don't think it's because he hates the president.

God Bless

[dw41552]

OK Butch,, I'll try again.
I never said you were the Devil, nor do I think you are the Devil.
I said "Like dancing with the devil", you were all slippery and twisty and not answering Q's directly.

OK I'll take your word for it. I believe I've answered just about every question you've asked me. Show me one I haven't and I will answer it

I don't know enough about that situation to have an opinion.
I wasn't there, were you? I don't have a TV either.

3 Navy seals shot the three pirates holding Captain Phillips hostage in the head simultaniously, killing them instantly because they believed Phillips was in immediate danger. Do you agree with their decision?

You weren't at Guantanamo Bay either but you have an opinion about that one.

We were talking about the deathpenalty, and from there came my relevant Question.
They are proud of their actions and subsequent lies Fair enough Actually that is why people are upset, The Guantanomo prisoners were going to be hanged without a trial.
In fact they are in prison without a trial!
Frankly, I wasn't sarcastic, (I can do better than that), I just noticed the contradiction in your beliefs and like to see your opinion

I'm done talking about torture. I think we've beat that one into the ground, so please no more. Please show me one example of a contradiction in my beliefs.

I believe in the death penalty but only for first degree murder and only after conviction through a fair trial and one appeal.



Butch, it is you brought up the Devil not me.
I don't collect souls, I don't know anyone who does, but you know TWO entities who do.
Any entitiy who is omnipotent and has a place to receive people in the afterlife is a God in my book. You your self said he is very powerful and put him on the same level as your other God.

MsTerry God is the one and only true God. There are no others. God created satan, so he's certainly not going to make the devil as powerful as He is. Satan is a fallen angel. He was God's head angel Lucifer until he got greedy and tried to over throw God with the help of many other less powerful angels which of course failed so they were all cast out of heaven to prowl the earth. Like I said his fate is already sealed and he knows it. What better revenge than to turn Gods people against Him.



I still haven't told me what a soul is, even though you keep referring to it.

The dictionary says it's the animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.

I believe it to be our central spiritual core.

I have no idea how long it takes you to write a response
How about being compassionate and tolerant, not because we can earn a place in heaven, but because we are here.

No one can earn a place in heaven. it is given to us through God's grace when we turn to him and love him like He loves us.

Do you believe God is a he or a she?

Genesis 1:26 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=1&verse=26&version=50&context=verse)
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

I think that pretty much answers that question. It's funny you asked though. I was on Roseanne Barr's, (Star of Roseanne the TV sitcom) forum last week where all the women believe God is a woman, and when I shared this same bible verse with them, Roseanne herself had me banned from her sight. I thought that was pretty funny.

God Bless

[MsTerry]

[/color]
I believe in the death penalty
I don't think I'll ever understand how you can support the taking of a human life when there are others options.:hmmm:
You say God created Satan and allows him to live despite the fact that you say He is responsible for all evil.
Either Satan is just as powerful as the good God and can't be killed, or your good God doesn't believe in the death penalty.
Which one is it?




Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness
Boy Butch, you know how to throw a gal for a loop!
I thought you only believed in two Gods, now it turns out there are even more than that???
What do you mean by "Let Us make man " ???
US? Us is more than one Butch.
If God is made in their image, we have a few BILLION GODS.

[Lorrie]

This Satan gets me all confused, Lorrie even implies that I am Satan.


Uh. Excuse me MsTerry, but I did not imply that you are Satan, I stated that you knew about him.

If anyone knows about satan it's you ms terry... I believe that is what I typed...

[Lorrie]

Uh. Excuse me MsTerry, but I did not imply that you are Satan, I stated that you knew about him.

If anyone knows about satan it's you ms terry... I believe that is what I typed...

Nope, I was wrong...sort of. My exact quote is...
Ms. Terry why do you ask? If anyone knows the answer to this its you...

How does this have me imply that you ARE Satan?

[MsTerry]

Ok then if I am not Satan, how come you say I know so much about Satan?
Did I ever make that statement?


Nope, I was wrong...sort of. My exact quote is...
Ms. Terry why do you ask? If anyone knows the answer to this its you...

How does this have me imply that you ARE Satan?

[MsTerry]

3 Navy seals shot the three pirates holding Captain Phillips hostage in the head simultaniously, killing them instantly because they believed Phillips was in immediate danger. Do you agree with their decision?

Like I said, Butch, I don't have all the info.
What was that captain doing over there? What was he hauling?
Was the loot from exploited child laborers? Was it corporate greed that put him in dangerous waters?
Do you have all the facts?
It sounds like you have judgements for the people that you call pirates.
Are they pirates or is that the devil spreading misinformation?

[dw41552]

Geeeesh MsTerry talk about evading a question, but I'll humor you.


Like I said, Butch, I don't have all the info.
What was that captain doing over there? What was he hauling?

The Maersk Alabama was carrying humanitarian relief supplies and bound for Mombasa, Kenya when it was hijacked.

Was the loot from exploited child laborers? Was it corporate greed that put him in dangerous waters?

I won't even dignify that question with an answer.

Do you have all the facts?

Don't use the excuse you weren't there, or you don't have a TV. All you have to do is a google search on Captain Phillips, and you'll get all the facts you need.

It sounds like you have judgements for the people that you call pirates.

You see this is why I get frustrated and tired of responding to you. I have not given one thought on the situation yet you accuse me of passing judgement, when I've told you many times, I cannot judge or condemn anyone. I am not qualified. You on the other hand believe you are. And I am not the one who said they are pirates, The Government and the media did. What would you call a person who highjacks a ship and holds it's crew for ransome, and have killed many of their hostages?

Pirate:
One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.

Sounds to me like pirate fits the description pretty well.


Are they pirates or is that the devil spreading misinformation?


Come on MsTerry quit evading the question. I have answered dozens of your questions, but you have not answered one of mine. How fair is that???

3 Navy seals shot the three pirates holding Captain Phillips hostage in the head simultaniously, killing them instantly because they believed Phillips was in immediate danger. Do you agree with their decision?

God Bless