I'm boycotting Whole Foods... [Archive]

lynn

12-07-2008, 07:25 AM

So far anyway...with what I have read...(Don't shop there that much anyway)...

This is so sickening to me...and I have never heard of this before...

It's completely beyond me how, or why a company should be forced to turn over their private records to a competitor...

https://newseasonsmarket.blogspot.com/2008/11/were-just-trying-to-mind-our-own-local.html

ElizabethM

12-07-2008, 09:26 PM

Boycott Whole foods....avoid chain stores...dont be tempted by Big Box prices....

Now is the time to redirect our resources back to, through, in and around our own neighborhoods and villages.... go out of your way a bit...spend a little more even...if not now when ?...and if not you who ?

Andy's
Fiesta
Fircrest

lots of locally owned Coffee Houses,restaurants and stores need your dollars.

Its refreshing to hand my money over to the actual owner of the place...a rare privledge these days.
Hardcore
My friend Joes
Coffee Katz
Westside Cafe
Marthas

Happy Happy Holy Holy

sharingwisdom

12-07-2008, 09:41 PM

After reading Brian Rohter's response to the possiblity of being subpoena-ed if he doesn't turn over his most confidential records to Whole foods lawyers and then what happened with Wild Oats, I wonder if Whole foods is going to strike againt Oliver's or Community Market. I see this as growing harrassment not much dissimilar to what the FDA is doing to small supplement businesses.

I haven't shopped at Whole Foods in awhile, but this solidifies that my business will continue with local resources whose philosophies align with a sense of integrity in business. Thank you for posting this.

So far anyway...with what I have read...(Don't shop there that much anyway)...

This is so sickening to me...and I have never heard of this before...

It's completely beyond me how, or why a company should be forced to turn over their private records to a competitor...

https://newseasonsmarket.blogspot.com/2008/11/were-just-trying-to-mind-our-own-local.html

jennyb

12-07-2008, 09:48 PM

Thank you for sharing this. Pretty appalling. I fell in love with New Seasons Market(s) when I went to Portland last year. A boycott of Whole Foods is definitely called for.

metimeesthetics

12-07-2008, 10:33 PM

Boycotting is all and good, but it is a silent protest that takes time to have any effect. If you want to make a statement, then PICKET.

It seems to me that situation goes directly against the policies that WF seems to promote. I would imagine that many more people would cease shopping there, especially with the other excellent local grocery stores, if they were aware of the order.

I don't know what the picketing rules are in sebastopol, but I myslef would be happy to carry a sign and educate people. If the press ends up negative enough, WF can withdraw the subpeona (sp?).

If anyone else is interested in picketing, let me know. Also, pass on the article to as many people as you can, especially in other states who have WF, to spread the word. Grassroots activism!!

I am thoroughly sick of big businesses pushing out small business, and the God complex they develop. I vote with my dollar, and unless there is no way that I can find to get something from an small local business, I do not patronize big box stores.

Bryan

12-08-2008, 03:49 AM

I think it is outrageous for the person from Whole Foods to try to blame the FTC for this suponea. They are trying to become a nationwide monopoly within their market. They then go out and suponea 96 companies to bolster their defense, and claim it is the government's fault they need this private information. They won't pay the legal costs of these small firms to help them become bigger. Whole Foods is very very expensive. When Food for Thought was here, at least there was a bigger selection of locally sourced foods. It seems to me they have lost that as they got bigger but had to buy small stores like Food for Thought. Oh well, just another corporate player trying to look green is how it looks to me.
A picket is helpful but an informational picket is even better. Let customers know that WF is using legal methods to become a monopoly. Maybe Oliver's and other grocers will get more business...

lynn

12-08-2008, 04:52 AM

Bryan...A picket is helpful but an informational picket is even better. Let customers know that WF is using legal methods to become a monopoly. Maybe Oliver's and other grocers will get more business...

Yes, I'm hoping that as people hear about this, there will be a huge public outcry about what Whole Foods is doing - from their customers...and they will be forced through the pocketbook to change this...

There's always trying...

I will miss going there...I do enjoy going there sometimes...But man, I am just so sick of what some Corporations are allowed to be getting away with...It's sickening...

I'm counting on other's to keep spreading the word about this...

Sabrina

12-08-2008, 10:19 AM

Where I live in Santa Rosa it is equal distances to Whole Foods, Olivers, Community Market, and a little closer to Trader Joes. I find myself avoiding Whole Foods due to the outrageous prices (If I'm there by accident, I only buy what's on sale and eat their samples!). I find myself shopping between Community Market, Olivers, Trader Joes, and also checking what's in the Grocery Outlet...Whole Foods is mostly off my list already.

Bryan...A picket is helpful but an informational picket is even better. Let customers know that WF is using legal methods to become a monopoly. Maybe Oliver's and other grocers will get more business...

Yes, I'm hoping that as people hear about this, there will be a huge public outcry about what Whole Foods is doing - from their customers...and they will be forced through the pocketbook to change this...

There's always trying...

I will miss going there...I do enjoy going there sometimes...But man, I am just so sick of what some Corporations are allowed to be getting away with...It's sickening...

I'm counting on other's to keep spreading the word about this...

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MsTerry

12-08-2008, 11:36 AM

Now here is a novel approach to bankrupt WF!
We'll eat them out of bussiness!!!

I only buy what's on sale and eat their samples!
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lynn

12-09-2008, 06:42 PM

I posted my thoughts on one of the 'blogs' at the Whole Foods website...along with the 'New Seasons' link I posted here...
I know nothing about business law...Maybe someone else reading this does...

Here is what they wrote back to me in my email:

"Thank you for contacting Whole Foods Market. While your comment is off-topic for our blog, we appreciate your concerns and the opportunity to offer our perspective on this issue.

Whole Foods Market continues to defend itself against the FTC's ongoing effort to challenge the Whole Foods Market/Wild Oats merger. The FTC has targeted us in 29 major markets and asserts that Whole Foods Market does not face substantial competition from other supermarkets in all of those markets. As you know, there is plenty of other competition and part of our defense includes gathering information from third parties (competing retailers and vendors) in those markets through subpoenas. Our subpoena of New Seasons is one of 93 subpoenas of market participants across the 29 markets that is necessary for us to defend ourselves.

In their complaint against us [https://tinyurl.com/5o6e9l ] the FTC says the relevant markets in this case are "PNOS" which stands for Premium Natural and Organic Supermarkets. The FTC admits they made this term up. The FTC says there are only four retailers in the PNOS – Whole Foods Market, Wild Oats, New Seasons and Earth Fair. So apart from Whole Foods Market and Wild Oats, New Seasons represents one of two retailers in the PNOS market.

Since the FTC has defined the relevant market as PNOS, we can’t simply show them the yellow pages filled with competing stores selling natural foods. We have to defend ourselves by showing them how the stores that they defined to be PNOS, as well as other retailers, offer competing products for customers. In our judgment, we can’t withdraw the subpoena and still defend ourselves. We have worked with New Seasons’ lawyers to limit the scope of the subpoena so the effect of the FTC’s case is as minimal as possible for them.

Subpoenas and protective orders are a standard part of litigation practiced in virtually every antitrust case in the United States. It is important to understand that no one inside Whole Foods Market will be able to see our competitors’ information. All of the information provided by the third parties in their responses is subject to an FTC-issued protective order. The protective order prevents any of this information from being shared with any Whole Food Market employee, including in-house legal counsel. Only outside counsel and their consultants can see this information.

We find it very unfortunate that the FTC’s ongoing pursuit to affect our merger (which was consummated more than a year ago) continues to be burdensome to Whole Foods Market, other stores like New Seasons, and U.S. taxpayers. We appreciate your concern for your local stores. We are committed to making the world a better place through food choices and hope to have your continued support of Whole Foods Market.

For more information on our position, our chief operating officer, Walter Robb, posted a lengthy comment to the Oregonian story here: https://tinyurl.com/6bor83

I hope you find this information helpful. Again, thanks for giving us the opportunity to share it with you."

Paige Brady
Whole Foods Market

MsTerry

12-09-2008, 09:42 PM

Thanks for posting this.
It looks like WF has a point in subpoenaing other stores records. The FTC accuses them of monopolizing the market and eliminating the competition, the only way to show otherwise, is to show there is still competition selling the same stuff.

I posted my thoughts on one of the 'blogs' at the Whole Foods website...along with the 'New Seasons' link I posted here...
I know nothing about business law...Maybe someone else reading this does...

Lorrie

12-10-2008, 10:33 AM

Results 1 - 10 of about 239,000 for Whole (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.answers.com/whole&r=67&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNGPNq_t6TzVOhiPCY04EPIl_cgEJQ) Foods (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.answers.com/foods&r=67&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=2&usg=AFQjCNGKBw7HKOFrBZ6_UpQkUQ-bp8GtZw) lawsuit (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.answers.com/lawsuit&r=67&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=3&usg=AFQjCNHxFDVczFlcsindWRU5EgFM0sN5PQ).
:hmmm:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Whole+Foods+lawsuit&spell=1

gnc sebastopol

12-11-2008, 06:34 PM

If you want to hand your money to the actual owner of a store I suggest you visit some of the Chain stores in Sebastopol. Like..

Baskin Robbins
AIM mail supply
Subway

Many stores that you are asking people to avoid are owned by people who live in your community. A franchisee is in partnership with a corporation and we pay a % of sales to the corporation, but the profit (when there is any) stays in the community.

It is really hard to open a small business and a franchise takes a lot of the risk out. It is a lot simpler to run and allows me to spend more time with my family.

It is not bad enough that the economy stinks, but then Jeff has to take time out of his busy day to put in his two cents about supplements as gospel Glad to know where to go to find all the answers. On top of that I have to deal with people saying 'stay out of chains'.

Please support the local stores...all of them. There are enough vacancies in this town and I hate to see any one else go out of business. Even Whole Foods, because they would take a lot of jobs with them, and a lot of tax revenue.
thank you!

Boycott Whole foods....avoid chain stores...dont be tempted by Big Box prices....

Now is the time to redirect our resources back to, through, in and around our own neighborhoods and villages.... go out of your way a bit...spend a little more even...if not now when ?...and if not you who ?

Andy's
Fiesta
Fircrest

lots of locally owned Coffee Houses,restaurants and stores need your dollars.

Its refreshing to hand my money over to the actual owner of the place...a rare privledge these days.
Hardcore
My friend Joes
Coffee Katz
Westside Cafe
Marthas

Happy Happy Holy Holy

nicofrog

12-13-2008, 10:24 AM

Hmm FoodBucks!
sounds like the old Starbucks boycott, it DID get their attention, amazing considering these huge-corps don't really need us fringe dis-believers!
Whole foods Sebastopol seems to be hugely populated by tons of people who don't even care if its health food or not, just a weekend near the park and fairly reasonable deli food etc, GREAT LOCATION ...
Whole Foods does COMPOST, which to me is a very good recommendation, although the W.F. in Santa Rosa, and Petaluma seem to have better deli cooks, and are more generous with samples.
Also they are not as anal about not allowing local composters to divert their compost,thus lowering shipping costs,and relieving over-supply at the composting center,where they are developing better ways of composting all the time.
I think the oregon co. is really worried that W.F. will try to take over their area. A natural fear, and it sounds like W.F. is at least claiming that they are not trying to do that.
I don't think a boycot would do freckle on a knats a** to w f, a picket might be good,or better yet a way corperate giants can help and support local business, and farms ,and people. This could take some REAL creative thinking.CHANGE I am appalled at the Malls that have sprouted all over California
in the last ten years..beyond belief...it's hard to even tell what town you are in, its beige-town, over there is Wallmart,Costco there,Quizmo's,etc etc etc, bye bye maw and paw mkt. little forign guy's convenience stores seem to be hanging on....
I imagine we'll soon see if W.F. can live up to it's so called desire to be beneficial, and green.
Nico

So far anyway...with what I have read...(Don't shop there that much anyway)...

This is so sickening to me...and I have never heard of this before...

It's completely beyond me how, or why a company should be forced to turn over their private records to a competitor...

https://newseasonsmarket.blogspot.com/2008/11/were-just-trying-to-mind-our-own-local.html

scamperwillow

12-14-2008, 10:58 AM

I'm not fond of monopolies, but I have to say in defense of at least our local Whole Foods - it's cheaper than Fiesta and has better produce and more selection than Andy's or Fircrest. And in terms of the local economy, they do provide jobs for our friends and neighbors, buy produce from our local farmers and pay sales tax to help Sebastopol's economy.

I also think they have helped spur the trend towards natural and organic foods in markets all over. I like that part.

patzy

12-14-2008, 04:19 PM

Boycott Whole foods....avoid chain stores...don't be tempted by Big Box prices....

Now is the time to redirect our resources back to, through, in and around our own neighborhoods and villages.... go out of your way a bit...spend a little more even...if not now when ?...and if not you who ?

Andy's
Fiesta
Fircrest

lots of locally owned Coffee Houses,restaurants and stores need your dollars.

Its refreshing to hand my money over to the actual owner of the place...a rare privledge these days.
Hardcore
My friend Joes
Coffee Katz
Westside Cafe
Marthas

Happy Happy Holy Holy

It would be nice, very, but many are hurting so badly financially, they can't pay the prices of small stores (who have to mark up their prices to survive) and some don't see the inside of a cafe or restaurant these days. Nice sentiment and would that it were so but 'times are hard'.

Tasha

01-26-2009, 10:44 AM

I suggest first of all that you really take a look at the products they carry because although they may have some organic more than half is not and all the produce and meats that they use in there deli and salad bar is all the cheapest stuff they have and definitely not organic! As far as jobs is concerned you are right they do provide a lot of jobs but if we keep outsourcing our money there really won't be jobs anywhere else.

At some point we have to stand up and say no to corperations and bring more money to local businesses and in turn more jobs to privately or worker owned businesses such as fiesta and community market. If there is ever a time to finally say no now is that time. How long are we all going to keep putting off a local sustainable community? If not now when? The entire monetary system is collapsing! What are you doing cause I can tell you none of us is doing enough! I am just getting tired of making excuses. I have been a vegan for 6 years and I just started raising my own chickens. That was really hard for me but for the first time in my life I just can't compromise anymore. I have realized that buying organic is good and all but feeding my own livestock and growing my own vegis. making my own bread and milling my own gains is what we need. Think about it... is buying organic that much more important than buying local cause I am not sure I believe that. Local is almost better we are not using the resources to get it here and hurting the environment just as much in the process. For example we may love our organic avocado in the winter or our bananas which is never local so because that is not from here we are not only not supporting our own economy but also it has to be shipped here which leaves oil in our oceans and the paint form ships kill the coral reefs so is buying organic and out of season really helping the environment I really don't think so. When will we all stop talking and start doing? We all need to do our part and although I understand why you would shop at whole foods just don't knock the ones who choose not to shop there because they are thinking of YOU in the community!

n4rky

01-26-2009, 11:11 PM

I suggest first of all that you really take a look at the products they carry because although they may have some organic more than half is not and all the produce and meats that they use in there deli and salad bar is all the cheapest stuff they have and definitely not organic! As far as jobs is concerned you are right they do provide a lot of jobs but if we keep outsourcing our money there really won't be jobs anywhere else.

At some point we have to stand up and say no to corperations and bring more money to local businesses and in turn more jobs to privately or worker owned businesses such as fiesta and community market. If there is ever a time to finally say no now is that time. How long are we all going to keep putting off a local sustainable community? If not now when? The entire monetary system is collapsing! What are you doing cause I can tell you none of us is doing enough! I am just getting tired of making excuses. I have been a vegan for 6 years and I just started raising my own chickens. That was really hard for me but for the first time in my life I just can't compromise anymore. I have realized that buying organic is good and all but feeding my own livestock and growing my own vegis. making my own bread and milling my own gains is what we need. Think about it... is buying organic that much more important than buying local cause I am not sure I believe that. Local is almost better we are not using the resources to get it here and hurting the environment just as much in the process. For example we may love our organic avocado in the winter or our bananas which is never local so because that is not from here we are not only not supporting our own economy but also it has to be shipped here which leaves oil in our oceans and the paint form ships kill the coral reefs so is buying organic and out of season really helping the environment I really don't think so. When will we all stop talking and start doing? We all need to do our part and although I understand why you would shop at whole foods just don't knock the ones who choose not to shop there because they are thinking of YOU in the community!

If you are vegan, why are you raising chickens or other livestock? You can grow more food on less land with less water to feed a vegan than you can a carnivore.

That question asked, my biggest worry about Whole Foods is that they don't pay their people well, and are aggressively anti-union. Corporations have indeed done great damage to our society, but those of us who worry about our health need also to consider the benefits of organic food. And Whole Foods does offer more organic and more vegan selections than other grocery stores.

DevaKai

01-27-2009, 07:17 AM

I feel silly asking this but is it really true that Whole Foods uses produce and meats in their deli and salad bar that are all the cheapest stuff they have and not organic? How did you find this information out? I assume you asked someone there maybe? I would really like to know which items aren't organic. My health is very important to me and I do not want to eat foods unless they are of the highest quality.

If you are vegan, why are you raising chickens or other livestock? You can grow more food on less land with less water to feed a vegan than you can a carnivore.

That question asked, my biggest worry about Whole Foods is that they don't pay their people well, and are aggressively anti-union. Corporations have indeed done great damage to our society, but those of us who worry about our health need also to consider the benefits of organic food. And Whole Foods does offer more organic and more vegan selections than other grocery stores.

MsTerry

01-27-2009, 08:45 AM

my biggest worry about Whole Foods is that they don't pay their people well,

It would be helpful if you can tell us How Much WF pays their employees, long term and short term.
And of course, to be fair, show us how much Andy's pays, and Pacifica, Safeway, Fircrest and of course the Community market and other local markets.
And then we can compare it.

ChristineL

01-27-2009, 09:23 PM

I don't know what the others pay, but I do know that Safeway starts everyone at minimum wage, the pay raises consist of about .25 an hour and they can reduce full time employee hours to 24 per week any time they feel the need. This is how they're saving money at the Guerneville store at present. Wait time at the deli counter is often absurd as are the cashier lines. To top it off, Safeway is a Union Shop and Union dues come out of the pay check regularly. Cosco pays well and has good benefits (I know a few people who work there). G&G pays quite well (and they're not Union). One of my friends went to work there when Safeway was pressuring him out as he'd been there for quite a few years and was making around $14.00/hr. G&G hired him at 19.00/hr. Only people with a lot of seniority make good money at Safeway and Safeway is continuously pushing to get rid of them.

It would be helpful if you can tell us How Much WF pays their employees, long term and short term.
And of course, to be fair, show us how much Andy's pays, and Pacifica, Safeway, Fircrest and of course the Community market and other local markets.
And then we can compare it.

terriann

01-27-2009, 11:02 PM

I was over there to pick up some salad for lunch today and rechecked the salad bar. My memory served me well--it says all items are organic, right across the top of the glass hood. And I can see for myself what foods from the deli contain exotic (cross-boarder) ingredients and eschew them for other items, if I choose.

I've heard we have a lot of power in our pocket books, so go for it and spend your cash where you feel it will provide the most support. I shop locally as much as I can and love not buying food that has to cross our boarders to get here, for the most part. I like the feeling of connection it gives me to the seasons when I get that first locally grown tomato in the late spring. I can give up avocados during the winter months, but who in California can imagine a summer without guacamole? (Btw, most of the produce in the produce section is labeled as to it's origins--easy to pick out the locally grown, organic, seasonal foods. And if you can't tell, the produce folks will tell you).

When I do get something long distance during the winter, I think of it more as an exotic treat, like the oranges I can imagine our great grandparents might have received by train to Washington during late Fall, from a relative in the Orange Grove country of Southern Calif circa 1870.

I feel silly asking this but is it really true that Whole Foods uses produce and meats in their deli and salad bar that are all the cheapest stuff they have and not organic? How did you find this information out? I assume you asked someone there maybe? I would really like to know which items aren't organic. My health is very important to me and I do not want to eat foods unless they are of the highest quality.

MsTerry

01-28-2009, 09:27 AM

So your post says Union isn't necessarily a good thing for workers.
n4rky accuses WF of not paying well (we don't know what that means yet) and not being Union.(which might be a good thing)

G&G (where are they?) seems to be the place to work.
What about benefits? How about buying at your own store, do you get a discount?
Anybody else have some real data?

I don't know what the others pay, but I do know that Safeway starts everyone at minimum wage, the pay raises consist of about .25 an hour and they can reduce full time employee hours to 24 per week any time they feel the need. This is how they're saving money at the Guerneville store at present. Wait time at the deli counter is often absurd as are the cashier lines. To top it off, Safeway is a Union Shop and Union dues come out of the pay check regularly. Cosco pays well and has good benefits (I know a few people who work there). G&G pays quite well (and they're not Union). One of my friends went to work there when Safeway was pressuring him out as he'd been there for quite a few years and was making around $14.00/hr. G&G hired him at 19.00/hr. Only people with a lot of seniority make good money at Safeway and Safeway is continuously pushing to get rid of them.

Braggi

01-28-2009, 10:34 AM

... After reading Brian Rohter's response to the possiblity of being subpoena-ed if he doesn't turn over his most confidential records to Whole foods lawyers and then what happened with Wild Oats, I wonder if Whole foods is going to strike againt Oliver's or Community Market. I see this as growing harrassment not much dissimilar to what the FDA is doing to small supplement businesses. ...

Could you give us some examples of what the FDA is doing to small supplement businesses?

Thanks,

-Jeff

First Light Farm

01-29-2009, 08:06 AM

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Take the challenge of eating locally and supporting our community directly.

Bessings,

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I don't know what the others pay, but I do know that Safeway starts everyone at minimum wage, the pay raises consist of about .25 an hour and they can reduce full time employee hours to 24 per week any time they feel the need. This is how they're saving money at the Guerneville store at present. Wait time at the deli counter is often absurd as are the cashier lines. To top it off, Safeway is a Union Shop and Union dues come out of the pay check regularly. Cosco pays well and has good benefits (I know a few people who work there). G&G pays quite well (and they're not Union). One of my friends went to work there when Safeway was pressuring him out as he'd been there for quite a few years and was making around $14.00/hr. G&G hired him at 19.00/hr. Only people with a lot of seniority make good money at Safeway and Safeway is continuously pushing to get rid of them.

Braggi

01-29-2009, 08:38 AM

... One of the best ways to change our food system is to move towards local production. ...

And the ultimate "local" production is home grown.

Yes, support your local farmers, but also grow a few food plants yourself. If every person grew only a few pounds of food per year it would change the world. It's very empowering for children to grow their own food plants.

Anyone can grow a few carrots and some tomatoes and basil. Even upper floor apartments can support a few plants in pots. Put in a window planter box if you have to or join a community garden effort.

Hmmmm. It's time to go plant some seeds!

-Jeff

ChristineL

01-29-2009, 11:25 AM

G&G is actually a family owned business, I believe they have 2 stores, one in Santa Rosa and one in Petaluma. The one in SR is on College Avenue. As I've stated in another post, I have mixed feelings about Unions. Like everything else, there are good and bad ones. The Safeway one is useless. G&G's workers don't need one.

Having worked on construction sites, I know Unions protect their workers from having to work under dangerous conditions (yes, construction is dangerous no matter what, but...precautions can be taken against many of the dangers). In many cases, without Unions, workers are abused and some Unions are corrupt and have outrageous demands. However, our present system of CEO's making outrageous salaries and the workers being pushed into never-ending higher productivity for lower and lower pay makes me long for Unions.

As for the benefits at G&G, I'll ask my cashier friend when I see him.

So your post says Union isn't necessarily a good thing for workers.
n4rky accuses WF of not paying well (we don't know what that means yet) and not being Union.(which might be a good thing)

G&G (where are they?) seems to be the place to work.
What about benefits? How about buying at your own store, do you get a discount?
Anybody else have some real data?

flygal

02-01-2009, 09:40 AM

I am so glad to see this post happening...........

I have been avoiding Whole Foods for years now--ever since they took down a smaller natural foods shop in my former hometown---much to the owner's distress.

Alas, here is yet another reason to Boycott "Unholy" Foods......

Alert of the Week: SAY NO TO SWEATSHOP NATURAL BEEF
National Call-In Day for Farmworker Rights!
Whole Foods: Can you Hear Us Now?

Despite a mobilization by thousands of organic consumers, Teamsters, and United Farm Workers, sending in petitions and handing out leaflets at Whole Foods Market stores in 33 states, WFM is refusing to stand up for workers rights! Oregon-based Beef Northwest, the feedlot corporation that fattens up Country Natural Beef's herds, refuses to negotiate with the United Farm Workers in good faith. Whole Foods in the single largest seller of Country Natural Beef in the U.S. Joining leading elected officials in Oregon & President Barack Obama, in a letter earlier this year urged Beef Northwest to sit down and negotiate a contract with the United Farm Workers. In the spirit of Cesar Chavez, please support the United Farmworkers Union drive at the Beef Northwest feedlots in Oregon and send a message to the world: eliminate labor exploitation in the organic and natural food sectors.
Call and fax (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=V6j4v%2FrTav271S%2BYo2UE%2FisMQZ7bZuCz) Whole Foods' Corporate Headquarters and your local Whole Foods' General Manager.
Spread the word (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=ybk%2Fe%2BmeGOwCOpcS15XPkisMQZ7bZuCz) in your community and send a letter to the editor in support of sweatfree organic and natural food.
Send a letter to Whole Foods executives here (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Ihu%2F9jseIeHIaSiwW%2BrUpCsMQZ7bZuCz).In all honesty, when I first moved here I was really suprised to find out that there was actually a Whole Foods market in Sebastopol--especially knowing just how forward thinking, politically active and consciously aware everyone seems to be in this part of the country....but we live and learn something new every single day!
And just in case you want to read what Walmart and Whole Foods have in common.... click here. (https://www.slate.com/id/2138176/)
Peace and Happy Boycotting!

MsTerry

02-01-2009, 10:11 AM

This is from Flygal's article on WF

Whole Foods pays its workers a solid living wage—its lowest earners average $13.15 an hour—with excellent benefits and health care. No executive makes more than 14 times the employee average. (Mackey's salary last year was $342,000.) In January,

It appears now that some posters on this thread, make up stories about WF salaries.......................

So your post says Union isn't necessarily a good thing for workers.
n4rky accuses WF of not paying well (we don't know what that means yet) and not being Union.(which might be a good thing)

G&G (where are they?) seems to be the place to work.
What about benefits? How about buying at your own store, do you get a discount?
Anybody else have some real data?

n4rky

02-01-2009, 06:36 PM

Have you tried living on $13.15 an hour? I'll admit it is better than Safeway (I didn't know they'd gotten that bad) but this wage rate is still well below a reasonable living wage in the San Francisco Bay Area.

MsTerry

02-01-2009, 06:50 PM

$2104 a month for someone just starting out is a nice chunk a change, I have lived on less than that.
It also includes benefits, which probably adds up to $500, since that is how much it costs me.
How much are you making do with, my friend?

Have you tried living on $13.15 an hour? I'll admit it is better than Safeway (I didn't know they'd gotten that bad) but this wage rate is still well below a reasonable living wage in the San Francisco Bay Area.

flygal

02-01-2009, 08:18 PM

I think this working and salary theme is getting off topic. If you work there and are happy with it, good for you and your benefits!! But for the rest of us, why would we want to knowingly support unjust causes??.....

ILoveWestSonoma

05-04-2009, 08:36 AM

I have never really liked WF. It's a HUGE corporation with a completely corporate mentality. All they care about is the bottom line. Their marketing is targeted at preying upon people who are holistically minded, but WF is really nothing more than a "yuppy" market. WF is over priced, fake, and as you can see, they are out to squash the competition by whatever means they deem necessary...they want to corner the entire market. They are greedy!

Competition in any given market benefits the consumer. Competition is healthy! It is a natural checks and balances with regard to the basic principles of economics. If WF becomes the only place to shop (a monopoly) in this particular market segment they can charge whatever they please.

WF is nothing but the continued corporate whitewashing of America. In 50 years there will be no more quaint Americana places to shop or eat unless we support small business owners who work hard, take great care and pride in selling quaility products.

We have enough Best Buys, Whole Foods, Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. in the world. It's up to us to save mom & pop!

Have a nice day and support your local small businesses! :thumbsup:

Juggledude

05-04-2009, 07:39 PM

I like your concept.

help me out, where can I get good organic food consistently in Sebastopol?

I don't like the idea of driving my carbon footprint up by traveling a long distance to purchase my goods..

Royce

I have never really liked WF. It's a HUGE corporation with a completely corporate mentality. All they care about is the bottom line. Their marketing is targeted at preying upon people who are holistically minded, but WF is really nothing more than a "yuppy" market. WF is over priced, fake, and as you can see, they are out to squash the competition by whatever means they deem necessary...they want to corner the entire market. They are greedy!

Competition in any given market benefits the consumer. Competition is healthy! It is a natural checks and balances with regard to the basic principles of economics. If WF becomes the only place to shop (a monopoly) in this particular market segment they can charge whatever they please.

WF is nothing but the continued corporate whitewashing of America. In 50 years there will be no more quaint Americana places to shop or eat unless we support small business owners who work hard, take great care and pride in selling quaility products.

We have enough Best Buys, Whole Foods, Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. in the world. It's up to us to save mom & pop!

Have a nice day and support your local small businesses! :thumbsup:

ILoveWestSonoma

05-05-2009, 08:10 AM

If you read back through this post, you'll see several suggestions as to where you can buy local. :):

I like your concept.

help me out, where can I get good organic food consistently in Sebastopol?

I don't like the idea of driving my carbon footprint up by traveling a long distance to purchase my goods..

Royce

daynurse

05-05-2009, 07:38 PM

I have almost completely stopped WF shopping. When I was setting up the co-op for Sonoma County, I was told by one distributer that WF made them sign a contract saying they would not sell to co-ops within 100 miles of any WF store. There seems to be anti=trust violations in that contract but I don't know how to persue it.

Anyway, we do have the co-op working but it does involve fossil fuels as our food travels here from Oregon. I highly recommend local Farmer's markets.

We can get almost every product WF sells at AzureStandard.com.

We used to have a drop off in Sebastopol but have recently moved to Petaluma for a lot of reasons.

HOWEVER, anyone can set up a drop in Sebastopol. I'd be more than happy to help someone set it up, even do some of the monthly work for you. We had a large group in Sebastopol who are not ordering now, probably because it's hard to come to Petaluma to pick up. Email me if you want help.

Peggy

biannoli

05-05-2009, 08:00 PM

Thank you. Thank you. Whoever posted this, you are my hero!
Been boycotting WF too...for years now. It is a huge and a nasty corporation...they are dishonest and do NOT support local. They have an amazing PR dept but a lousy morality compass. Local produce is everywhere...we have many farm mkts, Santa Rosa being open year round. Learn to eat seasonally and not whenever you have a hankering for...out of season produce is tainted in so many ways. I could go on forever but I will spare you all. I do urge you to NOT put faith in WF...they make a bundle, can be terribly mean to their employees and they hurt local growers of everything around the globe. I could tell you stories! Worked for an organic wholesaler for years...WF's in not your friend. Even little Fircrest market has local/organic as does Fiesta. And real home town people run those markets. Don't be fooled, PLEASE!
Thanks for the forum
Barbara Iannoli

I have never really liked WF. It's a HUGE corporation with a completely corporate mentality. All they care about is the bottom line. Their marketing is targeted at preying upon people who are holistically minded, but WF is really nothing more than a "yuppy" market. WF is over priced, fake, and as you can see, they are out to squash the competition by whatever means they deem necessary...they want to corner the entire market. They are greedy!

Competition in any given market benefits the consumer. Competition is healthy! It is a natural checks and balances with regard to the basic principles of economics. If WF becomes the only place to shop (a monopoly) in this particular market segment they can charge whatever they please.

WF is nothing but the continued corporate whitewashing of America. In 50 years there will be no more quaint Americana places to shop or eat unless we support small business owners who work hard, take great care and pride in selling quaility products.

We have enough Best Buys, Whole Foods, Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. in the world. It's up to us to save mom & pop!

Have a nice day and support your local small businesses! :thumbsup:

jitterbug

05-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Have you heard of the GoLocal Sonoma County Cooperative? It's the local affiliate of the Business Alliance for Local Living Economies.

GoLocal.Coop - Relocalize your community - Call Us (https://www.golocal.coop)

Debbie

If you read back through this post, you'll see several suggestions as to where you can buy local. :):

Braggi

05-06-2009, 11:41 AM

... And real home town people run those markets. ...

I'm not a big fan of Whole Foods or of the corporation that owns them, but if you ask any of the people that work in Whole Foods, I'd bet they're all "real home town" people as well. Shopping there does give employment to local people and that's not a bad thing.

I think this whole thread is painting with a very broad brush. In my experience, that's usually a mistake.

-Jeff

bellastar

05-20-2009, 01:06 AM

Thank you for the reality check. I'm so sick of people ragging on us - I've worked at Whole Foods for 4 years and guess what? We're all local-that's why we work there. Just because a company is successful doesn't mean it's evil or greedy; we give so much away. Please be informed, if you want to boycott us, fine (your loss, really) but please do your homework.
:read:

elienos

05-21-2009, 06:14 AM

So true, I feel for folks, and whole foods pays far above any grocery store in Petaluma at least at the entry level...I dont know what managers make. You go to Safeway and the UNION works hard to get entry level folks a full $8 an hour AND the gouge their checks. There are better people to direct your anger towards that Whole Foods.

Yes, natural food co-ops are better to shop at. Im not disagreeing.

Thank you for the reality check. I'm so sick of people ragging on us - I've worked at Whole Foods for 4 years and guess what? We're all local-that's why we work there. Just because a company is successful doesn't mean it's evil or greedy; we give so much away. Please be informed, if you want to boycott us, fine (your loss, really) but please do your homework.
:read:

lynn

05-21-2009, 03:25 PM

Bella...

Personally...I didn't post to 'rag' on anybody...And I did post to see what other people might know about what was going on (posting can sometimes be part of, 'doing one's homework')...And I certainly don't think any business is 'evil' or 'greedy' because it is 'successful'...But, it does matter to me how a business becomes 'successful'...And I do like whole foods as a store...But, I do prefer to support the locally owned one's around, and it's not 'my loss' at all to shop that way...

P.S...Trader Joe's gives a heck of a lot of food away too...And their prices are cheaper...

take care.

"Thank you for the reality check. I'm so sick of people ragging on us - I've worked at Whole Foods for 4 years and guess what? We're all local-that's why we work there. Just because a company is successful doesn't mean it's evil or greedy; we give so much away. Please be informed, if you want to boycott us, fine (your loss, really) but please do your homework."

So true, I feel for folks, and whole foods pays far above any grocery store in Petaluma at least at the entry level...I dont know what managers make. You go to Safeway and the UNION works hard to get entry level folks a full $8 an hour AND the gouge their checks. There are better people to direct your anger towards that Whole Foods.

Yes, natural food co-ops are better to shop at. Im not disagreeing.

flygal

05-21-2009, 04:23 PM

HI, you can join a CSA like Laguna Farms in Sebastopol and get good, organic foods consistently.

I like your concept.

help me out, where can I get good organic food consistently in Sebastopol?

I don't like the idea of driving my carbon footprint up by traveling a long distance to purchase my goods..

Royce

emvee

05-30-2009, 04:56 PM

2 things:

1: There's a difference between the corporation and the employees. Many of the employees are good people, even some of the managers (but not all). Like the customers, they believe in wholistic/organic ideas, and like the customers, are somewhat 'trapped' in the situation.

Because it is a heartless corporation, regardless of their marketing hype, and much of their business practice, from what items they carry, to the prices and labor practices, are indefensible.

2: local alternatives do exist
Andy's market, just north of town, is very very good, has great organic produce and great prices and is a local family owned business with friendly helpful employees (and a great coffee kiosk right outside!)

Pacific Market (formerly Fiesta) is also OK, they used to be better,but still have a lot of good stuff, just watch the prices.

Yes, it's a drive to Santa Rosa, but the Community Market is hard to beat. Can't say enough good about them. If you have to go to SR for any reason, work a trip to the CM into your schedule.

Food For Humans in Guerneville; ok it's smaller and more limited, but it is local and if you're in the area, worth patronizing.

The Seb. Farmers Market, when in season, can be good, but can be a bit spotty.

And yeah, sometimes, I just hold my nose and go into the Hole.

79paul

05-30-2009, 11:03 PM

If you're in the south Seb area, the friendliest downhome market has got to be Fircrest market. Better prices across the board than WF.
The best surprises are their fish counter. They know local fishermen who bring in the best deals. A decent organic produce section, but not great. The best-kept "secret" in town. No fake corporate "holier-than-thou" WF attitude, just fair prices and real people.

2: local alternatives do exist
Andy's market, just north of town, is very very good, has great organic produce and great prices and is a local family owned business with friendly helpful employees (and a great coffee kiosk right outside!)

Pacific Market (formerly Fiesta) is also OK, they used to be better,but still have a lot of good stuff, just watch the prices.

Yes, it's a drive to Santa Rosa, but the Community Market is hard to beat. Can't say enough good about them. If you have to go to SR for any reason, work a trip to the CM into your schedule.

Food For Humans in Guerneville; ok it's smaller and more limited, but it is local and if you're in the area, worth patronizing.

The Seb. Farmers Market, when in season, can be good, but can be a bit spotty.

And yeah, sometimes, I just hold my nose and go into the Hole.

n4rky

05-31-2009, 12:11 AM

If you're in the south Seb area, the friendliest downhome market has got to be Fircrest market. Better prices across the board than WF.
The best surprises are their fish counter. They know local fishermen who bring in the best deals. A decent organic produce section, but not great. The best-kept "secret" in town. No fake corporate "holier-than-thou" WF attitude, just fair prices and real people.

2: local alternatives do exist
Andy's market, just north of town, is very very good, has great organic produce and great prices and is a local family owned business with friendly helpful employees (and a great coffee kiosk right outside!)

Pacific Market (formerly Fiesta) is also OK, they used to be better,but still have a lot of good stuff, just watch the prices.

Yes, it's a drive to Santa Rosa, but the Community Market is hard to beat. Can't say enough good about them. If you have to go to SR for any reason, work a trip to the CM into your schedule.

Food For Humans in Guerneville; ok it's smaller and more limited, but it is local and if you're in the area, worth patronizing.

The Seb. Farmers Market, when in season, can be good, but can be a bit spotty.

And yeah, sometimes, I just hold my nose and go into the Hole.

All this is true. What is weak about these options for me is that I'm vegan, and produce is not what I'm worried about. These stores don't carry vegan versions of foods nearly as much as Whole Foods. I have to walk past a barbeque (a sickening odor for many vegans) to get into Fircrest and sometimes into Pacific. Andy's doesn't carry anything except produce reliably. When I went into the Community Market, I found exactly one prepared (you know, "fresh," as in we made it sometime within the last year) sandwich that might be vegan--and it just didn't seem very appetizing.

Which is far from saying Whole Foods is a panacea for vegans. Some of their stores (not the one in Sebastopol) are increasing their prepared vegan offerings. Cafe Gratitude (very expensive) has opened a bar inside the Oakland Whole Foods and I understand that the SOMA (South of Market Area, San Francisco) Whole Foods now has a vegan section. The Sebastopol Whole Foods is likely be too small to even ever dream of doing such things. I have to drive to the Petaluma Whole Foods just to find a different flavor of vegan cheese besides American (which I find revolting).

While none of these stores in Sebastopol, Petaluma, or Santa Rosa, is what I would call vegan-friendly, I wind up having to make fewer stops (but still many) to pick up everything on my shopping list with Whole Foods Markets.

Let me address some previous comments. First, the issue with buying local is not whether the people are local. Of course they are. The point is the extent to which profits from a business in that locality are reinvested in the community, how much of the cash that flows through an operation is spent locally or goes to local people. With any large corporation, the answer is that profits go to people far away.

Second, yes, I like many of the people who work at Whole Foods, at every Whole Foods I've been to. But let's be clear: to say they are getting a better deal than they would at other grocery stores is damnation by faint praise. A company that truly cares about its employees will let them unionize. Whole Foods is right there with Starbucks and Wal-Mart in a willingness to expend vast sums of money just to keep unions out. If it were true that Whole Foods was taking such good care of its employees, what would it have to fear?

RussianRiverRattina

05-31-2009, 09:58 AM

Sigh. my husband, children & I shop locally whenever possible. Unfortunately, we can't avoid shopping at chains & big box stores entirely, because:

Local prices are often higher;
West County retailers often don't reliably & affordably carry basic items we need, like socks & underwear;
The moral advantage of shopping locally significantly diminishes when one considers that the items they sell are often imported from 3rd world countries -- just like the stuff we buy at Walmart for way cheaper.
I completely agree with the sentiments expressed on this board: Corporations generally suck, and chains & big boxes are damaging to our local economy. Unfortunately, we can't solve society's problems by simply shopping locally. The issues are too complex & we have no control over many of them.

One thing individuals do have control over is that local businesses seriously need to do some market research in order to figure out what products & services locals actually want & need, instead of what may catch a well-heeled, seasonal tourist's eye. For example, if you take a serious look at your surroundings, you'll notice that local homes, offices, retailers, childcare centers & restaurants have TONS of stuff from Ikea. Which locals apparently need & want so desperately they will drive all the way to Emeryville or Palo Alto to get. Maybe local retailers should be selling stuff like THAT.

We also need to look at local & national policies. Sonoma County makes it awfully difficult & expensive to start & run businesses. These costs are passed on to consumers. In addition, the cost of health insurance makes it difficult for local entrepreneurs to hire full-time help. From a political standpoint, we need to put more pressure on legislators & policy makers.

It seems to me that until people in this county can afford to make a living by actually MAKING things, people won't be able to afford to shop locally & buy things made by other local people.

Boycott Whole foods....avoid chain stores...dont be tempted by Big Box prices....

Now is the time to redirect our resources back to, through, in and around our own neighborhoods and villages.... go out of your way a bit...spend a little more even...if not now when ?...and if not you who ?

Andy's
Fiesta
Fircrest

lots of locally owned Coffee Houses,restaurants and stores need your dollars.

Its refreshing to hand my money over to the actual owner of the place...a rare privledge these days.
Hardcore
My friend Joes
Coffee Katz
Westside Cafe
Marthas

Happy Happy Holy Holy

Clementina

06-17-2009, 12:26 PM

I am a big fan of Fircrest Market in the south part of Sebastopol.

I find their prices much better than the chain stores, & always better than Fiesta.
I have never been overcharged, which every Safeway does on a regular basis. (The grocery chains count on people not catching it - & they're generally right). One way they do it, is advertise a sale in the aisles, & that price mysteriously doesn't get programmed into the cash register.

Also, if there are more than 2 people in line, they reliably call up more cashiers.
Compare that to G&G, where I always wait in line for many minutes, even if I buy 1 or 2 items, with cash.

yesterdaysgone

06-26-2009, 10:31 AM

one of the best ways to assure that you are getting local produce is to join a CSA. ( community supported agriculture) Two that I know of in sebastopol are Laguna Farm and first Light farm. both only a few miles from the center if town. By joining CSA you receive local produce year round and will be supporting local farmers as well as reducing your carbon foot print of course- we are so lucky in this area to have the resources we do. My challenge is - where in seastopol can I buy bulk items without getting them at whole foods? I wish we had the equivalent of community market from santa rosa. Does anyone know of any co-ops in this area?

The Owl

06-26-2009, 09:17 PM

one of the best ways to assure that you are getting local produce is to join a CSA. ( community supported agriculture) Two that I know of in sebastopol are Laguna Farm and first Light farm. both only a few miles from the center if town. By joining CSA you receive local produce year round and will be supporting local farmers as well as reducing your carbon foot print of course- we are so lucky in this area to have the resources we do. My challenge is - where in seastopol can I buy bulk items without getting them at whole foods? I wish we had the equivalent of community market from santa rosa. Does anyone know of any co-ops in this area?

I think Green Valley Village is also doing a CSA type thing. Andy's on 116 has bulk items... most are already pre bagged in varying quantities but for less $$ than Whole Foods premium prices.

daynurse

06-26-2009, 10:13 PM

WACCO has been instrumental in our forming the Sonoma County Organic Coop which order bulk items from AzureStandard.org. We are now having delivery to Petaluma and people from Sebastopol usually send one person to pick up all the orders. Anyone can sign up at SCOrganicCoop : SCOrganicCoop (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCOrganicCoop/). If anyone from Sebastopol wants to organize a delivery there, I'm here to help.
Peggy 766-9750

Indiwren

07-01-2009, 03:14 PM

I just got an email from the Organic Consumers Association. They allege that Whole Foods is undermining the organic food movement by selling 'natural' foods that contain GMO or toxic ingredients. Read more here: https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/642/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27537 (https://tinyurl.com/ma7l2gThe)
The same organization recently made me aware that Silk Soy Milk is not made with organic soy beans.

I understand how the organic produce at Whole Foods is tempting. I have found that Andy's, Fircrest, Fiesta, and Olivers also carry organic produce, often at cheaper prices though not always the same wide variety.

flygal

07-01-2009, 04:59 PM

Recently, I went to see the movie Food Inc at the Rialto. For me, it didn't contain much new information as this movie's topic is one of my passions/obsessions. However, it is always good for us to be reminded of just how big (and scary) the food industry has become.

If you have not watched a movie such as The Future of Food or Fast Food Nation, please be prepared for a shock. However, if this movie doesn't make you want to get active and REALLY, REALLY not buy from big box/ chain supermarkets, I don't know what will.

Overall, the messages are great, but there were just a couple of parts that disappointed... such as having Walmart in the movie (as a hero), instead of showing local CSA's or other small farms. However, I did read the interview about the making of the movie and it explains the reasons behind some of these things quite clearly. You can also read about it here at Alternet.org. (https://www.alternet.org/media/140890/food_inc%3A_michael_pollan_and_friends_reveal_the_food_industry%27s_darkest_secrets/)

Make sure you also visit the Food Inc. Website (https://www.foodincmovie.com/) and watch the trailer. There are ways to get active on the website.

If you want to read more, you can also visit my blog (https://www.coolearthtopics.blogspot.com/) which I started as a place to write about these very topics. The bottom line is that, as consumers, we are being "fooled" about how and where are dollars actually go. We contribute to so much unecessary waste and cruelty, even when we think we are not. False labeling in advertising is barely enforced.

Oh, and really pay attention to the information on Monsanto. It will make you sick. How EVIL can they be? I bet the only reason this movie isn't being shown in the conventional movie theaters is because Monsanto paid the theaters a subsidy to not show it... and keep the general public in the dark,, as usual. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic here, but you get the point!)

flygal

07-01-2009, 10:32 PM

Breaking the Organic Monopoly and the “Natural” Foods Myth

<table> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"> <cms name="api.demaction.org/campaign:27537:Description"> Whole Food Market and United Natural Foods, Inc.: Undermining Our Organic FutureAfter four decades of hard work, the organic community has built up a $25 billion “certified organic” food and farming sector. This consumer-driven movement, under steady attack by the biotech and Big Food lobby, with little or no help from government, has managed to create a healthy and sustainable alternative to America’s disastrous, chemical and energy-intensive system of industrial agriculture.

However, the annual $50 billion natural food and products industry is threatening to undermine the organic movement by flooding the marketplace with conventional products greenwashed with “natural” labeling. "Natural," in the overwhelming majority of cases, translates to "conventional-with-a-green-veneer." Natural products are routinely produced using pesticides, chemical fertilizer, hormones, genetic engineering, and sewage sludge. "Natural","all-natural," and "sustainable," products in most cases are neither backed up by rules and regulations, nor a Third Party certifier. These are label claims that are neither policed nor monitored. For an evaluation of eco-labels see the Consumers Union Eco-Label (https://www.eco-labels.org/) website.

For example:

* Tests Show Widespread (https://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18100.cfm) Presence of GMOs in So-Called "Natural" Foods

* So-called "Natural" non-organic soy milk (https://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18228.cfm) products, including leading brands such as "Silk,"are made with conventional soy lecithin, utilizing the hazardous chemical, Hexane, as an extraction agent.

* Dozens of "natural" and "made with organic" (https://www.organicconsumers.org/bodycare/index.cfm) personal care and household cleaning products contain known carcinogens, such as 1,4 Dioxane. Just about the only personal care products you can trust are those bearing the “USDA Organic” label.

* 90% or more of the vitamins and supplements (https://www.organicconsumers.org/nutricon.cfm) now on the market labeled as "Whole Foods," "natural" or "food based" are spiked with synthetic chemicals.

Despite the massive popularity and demand for certified organic products, retailers like Whole Foods Market, and wholesalers like United Natural Foods Inc., continue to push "natural" products at a premium price, while, in effect slowing down the growth of organics with their near market monopoly. In fact, the majority of products sold and distributed by Whole Foods Market and UNFI are not certified organic, but rather so-called "natural.” Meanwhile, independent and cooperative grocers often offer more certified organic products at competitive prices.
Will you stand up for organics?

Contact Whole Foods Market and UNFI today and tell them that you will buy only certified organic products for you and your family.

Visit Organic Consumers Website to Take Action (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/642/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27537)

</cms>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

jitterbug

07-03-2009, 03:25 PM

Here's a well thought-out article I recently came across from a writer in the East Bay. I agree with her that it's not an "all or nothing" choice and that it is important to consider the effects of where you spend your money.

According to the article, among other things, "Whole Foods has led the mainstreaming of organic food in this country for a long time, and recently started using their clout to press for the humane treatment of farm animals." This is something to be commended and appreciated.

On the other hand, when you shop at a locally-owned market, CSA farm, or farmers market profits stay in Sonoma County and recirculate as much as possible around our region. The lawyer, accountant, web designer, and PR and advertising firms for locally-owned businesses tend to be in our community. In contrast, profits from Whole Foods land first in Austin, Texas, and then go out to stockholders around the world. Whole Foods is, in effect, absentee-owned.

In my opinion, it's all about having an awareness that your purchasing choices wield a great deal of economic power. Be an educated buyer and remember that every time you make a purchase, you are essentially voting with your dollar.

Here is a link to the article: Where Food Dollars Do The Most Good (https://www.jgpress.com/inbusiness/archives/_free/000989.html)

justme

07-04-2009, 11:51 AM

I too resist going to Whole Foods. But, I am wondering... Has anyone ever set up a meeting with the local or regional management to "CALMLY" discuss these issues?

I'm not saying they would agree to meet, but has an "olive branch" ever been extended? Maybe through their (Whole Foods) rapid growth they have lost touch with original mission...

I don't know.... Anyone have answers? Just a note, and correct me if I am wrong, but McD's, Starbucks, etc. are locally owned franchises, employing local people.

I disagree with the prevailing corporate mentality on some issues, but maybe it is time to let them know how we feel, one on one...

Just my way of doing things..... Stephen

The Owl

07-04-2009, 12:26 PM

I too resist going to Whole Foods. But, I am wondering... Has anyone ever set up a meeting with the local or regional management to "CALMLY" discuss these issues?

I'm not saying they would agree to meet, but has an "olive branch" ever been extended? Maybe through their (Whole Foods) rapid growth they have lost touch with original mission...

I don't know.... Anyone have answers? Just a note, and correct me if I am wrong, but McD's, Starbucks, etc. are locally owned franchises, employing local people.

I disagree with the prevailing corporate mentality on some issues, but maybe it is time to let them know how we feel, one on one...

Just my way of doing things..... Stephen

I'd just like to express that I favor this approach over merely boycotting Whole Foods. Some of the employees and regional management people are friends of mine and I feel they would respond to communication far more than just a relative few people deciding to shop elsewhere.

The A Team

07-22-2009, 01:24 PM

Why OCA and Fair Trade Advocates Are Pressuring Whole Foods and UNFI

In response to OCA's recent alerts on Whole Foods Market (WFM) and United Natural Foods Inc. (UNFI), WFM posted out a form letter to many of our readers. Below is a summary of OCA's response, which you can read in greater detail here UNFI & Natural Greenwashing - Organic Consumers Association (https://organicconsumers.org/unfi.cfm)

OCA Finds WFM and UNFI Guilty of the Following:

* Corporate takeovers and monopolistic practices undermining organics.
* Pushing so-called "natural" foods at the expense of organic.
* Excluding small and family-scale organic farms.
* Marginalizing local and regional producers and brands.
* Organic monopolies and the "Whole Paycheck" phenomena.
* Selling personal care products misleadingly labeled as "organic."
* Selling vitamins and supplements spiked with synthetic chemicals as "natural," "all natural" or "Whole Foods."
* Violating labor rights and Domestic Fair Trade principles.

Link here:
UNFI & Natural Greenwashing - Organic Consumers Association (https://organicconsumers.org/unfi.cfm)

debbus

07-22-2009, 09:17 PM

I'm with you! Here's one for laughs......... I was shopping at the Whole Foods Santa Rosa store in the produce department about a month ago. Above the apples from New Zealand, asparagus from Argentina and something else (I can't remember) from Mexico, was a sign saying "Buy local"! I told one of the produce staff and he said " Yeah, I'm aware of that". Another service issue in the produce department there: On a Sunday, all the berries had mold and I addressed it. The produce guy said " Yeah, it gets bad on Sunday's" Give me a break! I shop at Community Market and sometimes Oliver's when I can afford it,. They both support local farmers. It's really sad because I like the employees at Whole Foods in Sebastopol.

Why OCA and Fair Trade Advocates Are Pressuring Whole Foods and UNFI

In response to OCA's recent alerts on Whole Foods Market (WFM) and United Natural Foods Inc. (UNFI), WFM posted out a form letter to many of our readers. Below is a summary of OCA's response, which you can read in greater detail here UNFI & Natural Greenwashing - Organic Consumers Association (https://organicconsumers.org/unfi.cfm)

OCA Finds WFM and UNFI Guilty of the Following:

* Corporate takeovers and monopolistic practices undermining organics.
* Pushing so-called "natural" foods at the expense of organic.
* Excluding small and family-scale organic farms.
* Marginalizing local and regional producers and brands.
* Organic monopolies and the "Whole Paycheck" phenomena.
* Selling personal care products misleadingly labeled as "organic."
* Selling vitamins and supplements spiked with synthetic chemicals as "natural," "all natural" or "Whole Foods."
* Violating labor rights and Domestic Fair Trade principles.

Link here:
UNFI & Natural Greenwashing - Organic Consumers Association (https://organicconsumers.org/unfi.cfm)

The Owl

07-22-2009, 09:54 PM

I'm with you! Here's one for laughs......... I was shopping at the Whole Foods Santa Rosa store in the produce department about a month ago. Above the apples from New Zealand, asparagus from Argentina and something else (I can't remember) from Mexico, was a sign saying "Buy local"! I told one of the produce staff and he said " Yeah, I'm aware of that". Another service issue in the produce department there: On a Sunday, all the berries had mold and I addressed it. The produce guy said " Yeah, it gets bad on Sunday's" Give me a break! I shop at Community Market and sometimes Oliver's when I can afford it,. They both support local farmers. It's really sad because I like the employees at Whole Foods in Sebastopol.

My place of top choice for produce is Andy's out on 116, good selection of organics, local whenever they can get it. Same with Fircrest Mkt. To be fair, tho, berries can mold very suddenly, one microscopic spore can hit one berry and within hours if not noticed by someone and the infected lots removed, can spread to the entire batch. At least you know they were organic... that could happen anywhere.

rocket man

08-02-2009, 07:49 PM

I like whole foods, never had a problem with the place. If you don't then just leave and stop trying to get everyone else to be as HYPER-SENSITIVE as you. Peace.

Shekinah

08-04-2009, 12:45 PM

I like whole foods, never had a problem with the place. If you don't then just leave and stop trying to get everyone else to be as HYPER-SENSITIVE as you. Peace.

Please can we all- Not criticize? calling someone hyper sensitive is an insult (esp in the way u put it). If someone feels more than u, it doesnt mean its a negative thing.
thanks all~~

photolite

08-04-2009, 06:19 PM

Does this not criticize the critic???? :Yinyangv:

Please can we all- Not criticize? calling someone hyper sensitive is an insult (esp in the way u put it). If someone feels more than u, it doesnt mean its a negative thing.
thanks all~~

lynn

08-04-2009, 07:36 PM

I confess I haven't totally 'boycotted' whole foods, since they do have good meats and fish there, and that blueberry sour cream cake is quite yummy (make my own too though)...But, I do mostly buy from local stores, and love the farmers market...

Glad this thread still gets read...Debate on!!...
-------

I don't know who that 'hyper-sensitive' remark was directed at...But, it's sometimes par for the course when someone has a slightly pissy attitude about a certain criticism...The 'stop being so 'hyper-sensitive' remark is often used as one of the more 'polite' ways of putting someone down, and projecting onto them personally - instead of addressing their criticism or concern...(A sort of 'nicer' way of saying, "I don't have a problem, so you shouldn't either, so why don't you just shut up")...I suspect that's what 'Shekinah' was attempting to address...

Have fun folks!...

Sydnee88

08-05-2009, 09:19 PM

Whole Foods has the right to defend themselves by the means set forth by the law. Laws which we're not written by Whole Foods. Since I grow my family's food, I only go to the market for organic meats, grains & milk and they have consitantly & courtiously provide what I need. I will continue to support them.

DynamicBalance

08-06-2009, 08:38 AM

I think my biggest problem with Whole Foods is their name. The vast majority of their products are not "whole foods", or even close, so it seems like massively false advertising to me. Anyone who is too busy to read labels or not in the habit of doing so would never realize this. Its simply dishonest, and taking advantage of the fact that the word "whole" is not regulated at all.

I try my hardest to avoid canola, corn, soybean, sunflower, and cottonseed oils, and all processed, non-organic, and unfermented soy. I also avoid refined sugar and flour, agave syrup, yeast breads, low-fat or non-fat dairy, powdered milk and eggs, concentrated juices, artificial vitamins (added back after the refining of grains), and anything with a chemical sounding name, such as sodium orthophosphate.

I also avoid "natural" flavors, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, yeast extract, autolyzed yeast extract, etc., because all of these can contain msg.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I try to eat mostly unprocessed foods in their whole forms, and I doubt that there are many products at Whole Foods that actually meet this description, other than the produce. Anything in a box or a can is pretty much out of the question for me. I was just looking at their website and haven't found a single product that I would eat.

So for them to call themselves Whole Foods is laughable and absurd.

justme

08-06-2009, 02:07 PM

Wow....quite the long and busy thread.... Next to sex this has to be the most active discussion!!!!

Anyway, what I want to say is let those that want to shop where they like do so, if you don't want to shop there, then don't.

The one thing I have noticed the last few years in the West County in particular is a real sense of impatience and criticism of others point of views. Even to the point of public (here) belittling and insults.

What a shame for such an "enlightened" group. Yup, we are all human, make mistakes, but life does go on... How about taking one step off the soapbox and talk face to face with everyone else... (not directed at anyone in particular).

Well, I'm working in the Southwest right now but I'll be checking in often!!!! Peace to all of you....

jbox

08-07-2009, 07:18 AM

:idea: Don't like Whole Foods? Don't go there. Meanwhile, getta life.....

I think my biggest problem with Whole Foods is their name. The vast majority of their products are not "whole foods", or even close, so it seems like massively false advertising to me. Anyone who is too busy to read labels or not in the habit of doing so would never realize this. Its simply dishonest, and taking advantage of the fact that the word "whole" is not regulated at all.

I try my hardest to avoid canola, corn, soybean, sunflower, and cottonseed oils, and all processed, non-organic, and unfermented soy. I also avoid refined sugar and flour, agave syrup, yeast breads, low-fat or non-fat dairy, powdered milk and eggs, concentrated juices, artificial vitamins (added back after the refining of grains), and anything with a chemical sounding name, such as sodium orthophosphate.

I also avoid "natural" flavors, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, yeast extract, autolyzed yeast extract, etc., because all of these can contain msg.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I try to eat mostly unprocessed foods in their whole forms, and I doubt that there are many products at Whole Foods that actually meet this description, other than the produce. Anything in a box or a can is pretty much out of the question for me. I was just looking at their website and haven't found a single product that I would eat.

So for them to call themselves Whole Foods is laughable and absurd.

DynamicBalance

08-07-2009, 07:51 AM

:idea: Don't like Whole Foods? Don't go there. Meanwhile, getta life.....

Guess what, genius? I *dont* go to Whole Foods. That was kind of the point of my post. What exactly did I say that hit such a sore spot for you? Do you tell everyone who criticizes something you like to "getta life"?

I'm sick and tired of people trying to discourage free speech on this forum!

Barry

08-07-2009, 09:58 AM

:idea: Don't like Whole Foods? Don't go there. Meanwhile, getta life.....

Guess what, genius? I *dont* go to Whole Foods. That was kind of the point of my post. What exactly did I say that hit such a sore spot for you? Do you tell everyone who criticizes something you like to "getta life"?

I'm sick and tired of people trying to discourage free speech on this forum!

Such bickering! Oy! :duel:

"Can't we all just get along?"

DynamicBalance

08-07-2009, 10:18 AM

Such bickering! Oy! :duel:

"Can't we all just get along?"

Apparently not. Every time I post my opinion on this site, someone comes back at me with a snarky comment. If a simple opinion respectfully stated is enough to provoke animosity practically every time, then maybe its time to start an "I'm boycotting WaccoBB..." thread.

biannoli

08-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Not bickering...please don't demena this important conversation. WF, to me, is an egregious corporation and standing in opposition to them is almost as politically and socially important as standing in opposition to war, to any encounter with nefarious forces. Get a life, indeed! Tell WF that...since they are, as a corporation, impervious to responsibilty...they manage to screw small farmers and aggrandize the big guys who are destrying the earth as quickly, almost , as big oil. Get a life...not take a life. Starbucks too...decimating small farms in coffee growing regions, forcing farms that have existed for many generations to fold, price fixing, you name it. It is a strong personal and political stand to boycot WF...to demand the decentralization of food production...the food poisonings of late an example of that particular mistake. Support your local farm markets...the product is picked fresh within a day, trucked only an few miles and the money goes straight to the grower. Large organic agribusiness does as much harm to the soil as any production grower. We cannot afford to eat off of somebody's bottom line...and stay healthy.
So let the conversatiopn continue...support diversity of opinion and no one should feel free to condescend. Leave that to the Washington fools.
Barbara Iannoli

Such bickering! Oy! :duel:

"Can't we all just get along?"

Woman in the Wild

08-07-2009, 12:01 PM

What's in a name? Safeway is not the "safe way", nor does Community Market serve the entire community, (no meat or alcohol there for those who want it)... I feel sad for those who are in a rage with a store, particularly showing road rage kinds of emotion regarding a name. Whole Foods does have some whole foods. I suggest that the ragers try meditation, or go hang out in Armstrong woods with 1300 year old redwoods and mellow out and get some perspective....

daynurse

08-07-2009, 08:14 PM

Usually when a topic starts getting a bit ranchorous, I tend to ignore it. But, this time I rejoice everytime I see the subject line get repeated. A little tickle to the consciences of those who believe we can just shop and fergetaboutit.

I believe in whole organic foods and, in price point alone, WF is preventing a sizable portion of the population from eating well. This will have deleterious effects for generations to come. This elitism is slow form of genecide of the poor.

justme

08-07-2009, 08:17 PM

This thread is getting sooooo funny and insane.... I love the posts about demeaning comments and snarky comments and the right to opinion. But obviously if my opinion differs from some other's, it is demeaning or snarky...

I am also amused by some people's idea that their views are righteous and differing views are the wrong way....

If I want to shop at "WF" (which I don't because of prices) that is my right. If you don't want to shop there, that is your right.

So in this "free" society of ours I, and anyone, can express and defend their views as much as anyone else can.... No more.... no less.....

Someone mentioned the "fools in Washington".... Doing all we can to be "politically correct" even if it goes against what we feel deep inside is the ultimate cop-out!!!!!

Like Whole Foods? Patronize them and don't give a rats ass to other people's BS..... Don't like Whole Foods? Shop elsewhere and do the same....

Don't like Wacco forum? Don't post your opinion,,,,,,

Gotta love Sonoma County!!!! For professing to be so liberal, it seems some are quite the opposite....

By the way, I am not intending to be condescending or "snarky"...

Just politically incorrect..... Just me....

justme

08-07-2009, 08:25 PM

Guess what, genius? I *dont* go to Whole Foods. That was kind of the point of my post. What exactly did I say that hit such a sore spot for you? Do you tell everyone who criticizes something you like to "getta life"?

I'm sick and tired of people trying to discourage free speech on this forum!

Well well.... Getting tired of people discouraging your free speech? Then why the insult "Guess what, genius?"

Do you call everyone that criticizes something you believe in "genius"?

Get off the soapbox and talk like you are no better than anyone else.....

The Owl

08-07-2009, 08:38 PM

This is all so absurd. You act as if WF is the only place to get organic produce and they are "committing slow genocide" of the poor... so shop at Andy's or Bill's Farm Basket, or Pacific or Fircrest... shop at all the wonderful farmer's markets that happen all around Sonoma County...all have organics and all are a LOT cheaper than WF. Get off it, there isn't a problem, only blindness and refusal to see.

Well well.... Getting tired of people discouraging your free speech? Then why the insult "Guess what, genius?"

Do you call everyone that criticizes something you believe in "genius"?

Get off the soapbox and talk like you are no better than anyone else.....

n4rky

08-07-2009, 08:56 PM

Yes, it is indeed true that this thread has gotten a bit bizarre. Actually, annoying is more like it.

One person here claims to advocate what I recognize as a "live and let live attitude" towards Whole Foods and those who shop there. Others have reacted with outrage. I think I understand their outrage, even if I suspect they don't express it as well as they might like.

The real problem with a "live and let live" attitude in this context is that it says absolutely nothing about the issues that have been raised here. It says nothing about concerns people have for the workers at grocery stores. It says nothing about the advocacy for doing business with local organizations. It says nothing about other questions about Whole Foods' other business practices.

It is, in my view, now a series of posts that contributes nothing to this discussion. I know that I would like to see the sort of postings which have heretofore been more typical of this conversation than those which strike me as the sort of statements made by one who is convinced of his own deep and profound insight but which are actually made under a condition of severe mental impairment.

justme

08-07-2009, 09:16 PM

So, that brings up more questions....

Does Whole Foods pay decent wage? What are the benefits package? Before some crap on Whole foods... I ask you... If you have health issues, are a single mom or dad, have special needs.... Does Bills Farm Basket or Andy's fulfill your Health Care needs? It is sad that corporate entities are the only ones that can offer extensive benefits... but if you have been a single parent as I have..... It is a biggie!!!!!!

justme

08-07-2009, 09:47 PM

I just got an email from the Organic Consumers Association. They allege that Whole Foods is undermining the organic food movement by selling 'natural' foods that contain GMO or toxic ingredients. Read more here: https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/642/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27537 (https://tinyurl.com/ma7l2gThe)
The same organization recently made me aware that Silk Soy Milk is not made with organic soy beans.

I understand how the organic produce at Whole Foods is tempting. I have found that Andy's, Fircrest, Fiesta, and Olivers also carry organic produce, often at cheaper prices though not always the same wide variety.

I love an conspiracy!!!!!

Barry

08-07-2009, 09:53 PM

Yes, it is indeed true that this thread has gotten a bit bizarre. Actually, annoying is more like it.

One person here claims to advocate what I recognize as a "live and let live attitude" towards Whole Foods and those who shop there. Others have reacted with outrage. I think I understand their outrage, even if I suspect they don't express it as well as they might like.

The real problem with a "live and let live" attitude in this context is that it says absolutely nothing about the issues that have been raised here. It says nothing about concerns people have for the workers at grocery stores. It says nothing about the advocacy for doing business with local organizations. It says nothing about other questions about Whole Foods' other business practices.

It is, in my view, now a series of posts that contributes nothing to this discussion. I know that I would like to see the sort of postings which have heretofore been more typical of this conversation than those which strike me as the sort of statements made by one who is convinced of his own deep and profound insight but which are actually made under a condition of severe mental impairment.

I was right with you until the "severe mental Impairment" bit. :(:

justme

08-07-2009, 09:54 PM

Sorry ....whong thread So, lets talk about the new info in Sebastopol.... I heard from the Sonoma County Times that Larry King or staff is coming to Petaluma and/or Sebastopol for interviews about Sotomeyers nomination from a "town hall" perspective.... Anyone know about this?

n4rky

08-08-2009, 12:58 AM

I was right with you until the "severe mental Impairment" bit. :(:

Hi Barry, Surely you've been to a party where someone imbibed more than a little too much in some recreational substance (usually, but not necessarily alcohol), and made such pronouncements are we are now seeing in this thread. That is precisely what I refer to. And when he reacts defensively to those who are outraged by his conduct, to me, he takes on the appearance of a troll.

biannoli

08-08-2009, 07:33 AM

Usually when a topic starts getting a bit ranchorous, I tend to ignore it. But, this time I rejoice everytime I see the subject line get repeated. A little tickle to the consciences of those who believe we can just shop and fergetaboutit.

I believe in whole organic foods and, in price point alone, WF is preventing a sizable portion of the population from eating well. This will have deleterious effects for generations to come. This elitism is slow form of genecide of the poor.

Thanks! I was about to give up on this conversation...the self righteousness and really nasty barbs. Mamma Mia! Scary stuff.

Zeno Swijtink

08-08-2009, 08:58 AM

This is all so absurd. You act as if WF is the only place to get organic produce and they are "committing slow genocide" of the poor... so shop at Andy's or Bill's Farm Basket, or Pacific or Fircrest... shop at all the wonderful farmer's markets that happen all around Sonoma County...all have organics and all are a LOT cheaper than WF. Get off it, there isn't a problem, only blindness and refusal to see.

I think WF has introduced an element of competition not seen before and has upped the bar for other grocery stores in the area. In few towns without a WF around here you find a Safeway as we have in Sebastopol.

As to price, think of Thornstein Veblen's theory of the rich and of early adopters, The Theory of the Leisure Class (1899). These people fund and test new products that we later learn to produce cheaper in larger quantities, and that then become affordable to the rest of us.

Barry

08-08-2009, 12:53 PM

I appreciate your comments, justme! And I have some comments on them...

This thread is getting sooooo funny and insane.... I love the posts about demeaning comments and snarky comments and the right to opinion. But obviously if my opinion differs from some other's, it is demeaning or snarky...

I am also amused by some people's idea that their views are righteous and differing views are the wrong way....

It's quite possible to disagree with an opinion or judgment, without being snarky (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/snark). The trick is offer your own POV without invalidating the other person's POV, and more importantly, invalidating the other person!

If I want to shop at "WF" (which I don't because of prices) that is my right. If you don't want to shop there, that is your right.

So in this "free" society of ours I, and anyone, can express and defend their views as much as anyone else can.... No more.... no less.....
...
Like Whole Foods? Patronize them and don't give a rats ass to other people's BS..... Don't like Whole Foods? Shop elsewhere and do the same...Absolutely, and... there is a place for enrolling people into your POV, such as "boycotting Whole Foods", or any other of the many "causes" that appear in these pages.

Don't like Wacco forum? Don't post your opinion,,,,,,Hey, waitaminute! :wink:

Gotta love Sonoma County!!!! For professing to be so liberal, it seems some are quite the opposite....There's liberal and then there's... dare I say it... conscious...

By the way, I am not intending to be condescending or "snarky"...

Just politically incorrect..... Just me....Well done!

Braggi

08-08-2009, 01:10 PM

... The trick is offer your own POV without invalidating the other person's POV, and more importantly, invalidating the other person! ...

But but but ... Dear Barry, some people intertwine their opinions/feelings/beliefs with such a lot of erroneous details (that they believe to be factual) it's really beyond challenging to offer a fact or science based POV without completely invalidating the other. That has to be "OK" or it isn't a discussion worth having.

It's always possible to do so without including belittling or insulting language and leaving out the name calling is the first best step. I'm for more of that especially in this tempestuous thread.

Blessings and twinkly white light!

-Jeff

The Owl

08-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Usually when a topic starts getting a bit ranchorous, I tend to ignore it. But, this time I rejoice everytime I see the subject line get repeated. A little tickle to the consciences of those who believe we can just shop and fergetaboutit.

I believe in whole organic foods and, in price point alone, WF is preventing a sizable portion of the population from eating well. This will have deleterious effects for generations to come. This elitism is slow form of genecide of the poor.

I just don't see how you can say the above. If WF were the only place for hundreds of miles to get organic food it might have some merit but when you have Pacific, Oliver's, Fircrest, Andy's, Bill's and a dozen or so farmers markets every week ALL with organic produce and most with other organics as well, I mean... Genocide??? Come on... all you have to do is adjust your shopping habits a little. It's only a problem if you want it to be so.

n4rky

08-08-2009, 10:17 PM

I just don't see how you can say the above. If WF were the only place for hundreds of miles to get organic food it might have some merit but when you have Pacific, Oliver's, Fircrest, Andy's, Bill's and a dozen or so farmers markets every week ALL with organic produce and most with other organics as well, I mean... Genocide??? Come on... all you have to do is adjust your shopping habits a little. It's only a problem if you want it to be so.

Daynurse has a point. This can be seen, for example, with the locally owned organic market that Whole Foods in Sebastopol replaced at the same location. Much like Wal-Mart, Whole Foods tends to drive competition out of business. I am sure that the organic food stores in Santa Cruz County view Whole Foods' opening of not one, but two (if I understand correctly) markets there with some trepidation and I am reluctant to simply just say it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Because I did see the results when I found an old listing of vegetarian restaurants and stores for Santa Clara County where I lived for several years prior to coming up here. Where one organic store was, there is now the Campbell Whole Foods. At least one place in Los Gatos, the next town south, folded; a second (somewhat smaller) Whole Foods moved in near the center of town. There are now, no independent organic markets in Santa Clara County that I know of. But there are Whole Foods as well in Cupertino, Los Altos (on the boundary with Mountain View), and Palo Alto.

It is a lot easier for Whole Foods to charge high prices when it is able to cast its only competitors in a dichotomy between organic (with the connotation of quality) and affordability (with the connotation of cheap). And when Whole Foods is the only organic market around, then the poor indeed are limited in access.

justme

08-08-2009, 10:39 PM

As far as the poor, homeless and low income people goes, how many do you actually see shopping for "Certified Organic" items.... When I was in that position it was who had Ramen, Pot Pies and/or soup for less!!!! Give up the Whole Foods pricing issues and the "leaving out these people" and "genocide" rhetoric.... Do you think that anyone that has $20 for a week's worth of groceries goes to Bill's, Fircrest or Andy's?

Wake up people.... They go to WalMart, or Dollar Tree where you have to compromise quality for quantity. Unless you have been in the position where you don't know when your next meal will be, if ever, don't pass judgement on others just because you feel a need to....To be REALLY hungry is not something to be used just for making a POV...Maybe offer a bag of healthy food to a person in need. By the way... I saw someone coming out of WF do this......

n4rky

08-08-2009, 11:11 PM

As far as the poor, homeless and low income people goes, how many do you actually see shopping for "Certified Organic" items.... <snip>. They go to WalMart, or Dollar Tree where you have to compromise quality for quantity. <snip>

First, this is to treat a range of people in a range of economic conditions in a false dichotomy: As justme sees it, you are either rich enough to shop at Whole Foods or dirt poor, shopping at "WalMart or Dollar Tree." There is no in between.

Second, it overlooks the many neighborhoods where poor people do not have healthy options. They shop at convenience stores, where there is almost no produce because even traditional grocery stores do not locate in these areas. In such neighborhoods, we can say very little about what the poor would do if they had the choice, because there is a dearth of evidence.

All that said, the poor are probably less likely to be educated in healthful eating. Trips to McDonald's or Burger King or the like might indeed be the only luxury for many.

But to settle for this is to settle for arrogance. "That food" becomes "good enough" for "them." It ignores the health and environmental benefits derived from reducing (preferably eliminating) the consumption of animal products. It is to suggest that early heart attacks, strokes, and other diet-related health issues are acceptable for the poor.

justme

08-09-2009, 06:32 AM

First, this is to treat a range of people in a range of economic conditions in a false dichotomy: As justme sees it, you are either rich enough to shop at Whole Foods or dirt poor, shopping at "WalMart or Dollar Tree." There is no in between.

Second, it overlooks the many neighborhoods where poor people do not have healthy options. They shop at convenience stores, where there is almost no produce because even traditional grocery stores do not locate in these areas. In such neighborhoods, we can say very little about what the poor would do if they had the choice, because there is a dearth of evidence.

All that said, the poor are probably less likely to be educated in healthful eating. Trips to McDonald's or Burger King or the like might indeed be the only luxury for many.

But to settle for this is to settle for arrogance. "That food" becomes "good enough" for "them." It ignores the health and environmental benefits derived from reducing (preferably eliminating) the consumption of animal products. It is to suggest that early heart attacks, strokes, and other diet-related health issues are acceptable for the poor.

Wow! Did I say that there is only rich and poor? Did I say "that food" was "good enough" for "them"? I was just addressing people's comments about "genocide of the poor". If you stand by idly when someone is hungry, is that not a form of genocide too?

Back to the point though.....

I do not believe it is Whole Food's fault totally... The whole social structure is to blame too... We, the USA really need to address our citizens needs as far as health care, food, housing and jobs.... We have lost our direction over the past years....

The Owl

08-09-2009, 11:00 AM

Wow! Did I say that there is only rich and poor? Did I say "that food" was "good enough" for "them"? I was just addressing people's comments about "genocide of the poor". If you stand by idly when someone is hungry, is that not a form of genocide too?

Back to the point though.....

I do not believe it is Whole Food's fault totally... The whole social structure is to blame too... We, the USA really need to address our citizens needs as far as health care, food, housing and jobs.... We have lost our direction over the past years....

Amen to that...

biannoli

08-09-2009, 12:17 PM

So true. Which is the point. We have so little say in our lives now SO vote with your bucks and force WF to behave responsibly. I worked in the produce industry for many years and the way they treat their farmers is unconscionable. A story here and there cannot adequately express their nefarious behaviors. Talk to some ex-WF employees who either earned too much so their hours were cut OR dared to express an opinion that was against the party line. Hence, the ex-employee. Yes, our entire social structure is a bloody mess, made even more disastrous by the Bush Boys...
So if we all do what we can, we can make a difference, however small. No difference is ever too small.
Good discussion, this one. thanks!

Wow! Did I say that there is only rich and poor? Did I say "that food" was "good enough" for "them"? I was just addressing people's comments about "genocide of the poor". If you stand by idly when someone is hungry, is that not a form of genocide too?

Back to the point though.....

I do not believe it is Whole Food's fault totally... The whole social structure is to blame too... We, the USA really need to address our citizens needs as far as health care, food, housing and jobs.... We have lost our direction over the past years....

n4rky

08-09-2009, 01:24 PM

So true. Which is the point. We have so little say in our lives now SO vote with your bucks and force WF to behave responsibly. I worked in the produce industry for many years and the way they treat their farmers is unconscionable. A story here and there cannot adequately express their nefarious behaviors. Talk to some ex-WF employees who either earned too much so their hours were cut OR dared to express an opinion that was against the party line. Hence, the ex-employee. Yes, our entire social structure is a bloody mess

Interesting that you point to former Whole Foods employees. Even more interesting that none of them are here to respond to this thread.

flygal

08-09-2009, 07:45 PM

Good Question......... I think that all this bickering has really gotten away from the original intent of the post. Therefore, I am posting it again here....

Breaking the Organic Monopoly and the “Natural” Foods Myth

Whole Food Market and United Natural Foods, Inc.: Undermining Our Organic FutureAfter four decades of hard work, the organic community has built up a $25 billion “certified organic” food and farming sector. This consumer-driven movement, under steady attack by the biotech and Big Food lobby, with little or no help from government, has managed to create a healthy and sustainable alternative to America’s disastrous, chemical and energy-intensive system of industrial agriculture.

However, the annual $50 billion natural food and products industry is threatening to undermine the organic movement by flooding the marketplace with conventional products greenwashed with “natural” labeling. "Natural," in the overwhelming majority of cases, translates to "conventional-with-a-green-veneer." Natural products are routinely produced using pesticides, chemical fertilizer, hormones, genetic engineering, and sewage sludge. "Natural","all-natural," and "sustainable," products in most cases are neither backed up by rules and regulations, nor a Third Party certifier. These are label claims that are neither policed nor monitored. For an evaluation of eco-labels see the Consumers Union Eco-Label (https://www.eco-labels.org/) website.

For example:

* Tests Show Widespread (https://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18100.cfm) Presence of GMOs in So-Called "Natural" Foods

* So-called "Natural" non-organic soy milk (https://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18228.cfm) products, including leading brands such as "Silk,"are made with conventional soy lecithin, utilizing the hazardous chemical, Hexane, as an extraction agent.

* Dozens of "natural" and "made with organic" (https://www.organicconsumers.org/bodycare/index.cfm) personal care and household cleaning products contain known carcinogens, such as 1,4 Dioxane. Just about the only personal care products you can trust are those bearing the “USDA Organic” label.

* 90% or more of the vitamins and supplements (https://www.organicconsumers.org/nutricon.cfm) now on the market labeled as "Whole Foods," "natural" or "food based" are spiked with synthetic chemicals.

Despite the massive popularity and demand for certified organic products, retailers like Whole Foods Market, and wholesalers like United Natural Foods Inc., continue to push "natural" products at a premium price, while, in effect slowing down the growth of organics with their near market monopoly. In fact, the majority of products sold and distributed by Whole Foods Market and UNFI are not certified organic, but rather so-called "natural.” Meanwhile, independent and cooperative grocers often offer more certified organic products at competitive prices.
Will you stand up for organics?

Contact Whole Foods Market and UNFI today and tell them that you will buy only certified organic products for you and your family.

Visit Organic Consumers Website to Take Action (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/642/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27537)

So, that brings up more questions....

Does Whole Foods pay decent wage? What are the benefits package? Before some crap on Whole foods... I ask you... If you have health issues, are a single mom or dad, have special needs.... Does Bills Farm Basket or Andy's fulfill your Health Care needs? It is sad that corporate entities are the only ones that can offer extensive benefits... but if you have been a single parent as I have..... It is a biggie!!!!!!

flygal

08-09-2009, 07:58 PM

The current food issues we face are so much bigger than debating whether or not you shop at Whole Foods, Andy's, Safeway, etc. And until people wake up and really realize what is going on with the food system, factory farmed meat and dairy, GMO's, Monsanto, ect, it really doesn't matter where you shop!

Places like Whole Foods Market are simply the catalysts that trick us into thinking we are doing such a great job saving the planet with our "green, healthy, organic" choices, but if you actually did any research on where most of the products you buy (even organic ones) come from, you would be shocked.

Just try to google Woodstock Farms, an organic wholesaler---and not actually a farm at all, which buys products from out of the country, all the while touting the fact that they support local farmers. If you see their website you would think you are purchasing from heaven, but dig deeper....Labels are very, very tricky.

So it doesn't matter where you shop unless you are buying truly organic, honestly marketed "whole foods." And that word has nothing to do with the store you all are fighting over. So put your bickering energy to good use and spend as much time researching what you are buying every time you shop and then come back here and post what you find out. Seek the truth!
Peace, love and good food!

biannoli

08-09-2009, 09:40 PM

Of course, I agree. However, I do not see honest exchange as bickering and find the arrogance a bit off-putting. Whole Foods is the foremost symbol of dishonest practices put forth with so much crap it sickens me. Ask the meat department what in hell is "fresh range beef..." Why do they put conventional produce next to organic if not to deceive? There are pictures of farmers hanging in WF that have retired, don't actually sell to WF anymore because of the egregious undercutting, Oh Lord, so much more. How much in that deli case is really organic? While there are many ills in this world, the Bush Boys were the pinnacle of greed and subterfuge. WF is the Bush answer to the same. Corporations are certainly not evil in and of themselves...but they do demand that competition be squashed, prices be fixed and the worship of the bottom line always precludes humanitarian concerns. Starbucks is destroying family farm coffee growers and WF is messing with our beloved small family farms. Stay local, support your farm markets, YES, read labels, indulge if you feel like it but keep talking, thinking, arguing and definitely keep bickering. It can only lead to some form of truth.

The current food issues we face are so much bigger than debating whether or not you shop at Whole Foods, Andy's, Safeway, etc. And until people wake up and really realize what is going on with the food system, factory farmed meat and dairy, GMO's, Monsanto, ect, it really doesn't matter where you shop!

Places like Whole Foods Market are simply the catalysts that trick us into thinking we are doing such a great job saving the planet with our "green, healthy, organic" choices, but if you actually did any research on where most of the products you buy (even organic ones) come from, you would be shocked.

Just try to google Woodstock Farms, an organic wholesaler---and not actually a farm at all, which buys products from out of the country, all the while touting the fact that they support local farmers. If you see their website you would think you are purchasing from heaven, but dig deeper....Labels are very, very tricky.

So it doesn't matter where you shop unless you are buying truly organic, honestly marketed "whole foods." And that word has nothing to do with the store you all are fighting over. So put your bickering energy to good use and spend as much time researching what you are buying every time you shop and then come back here and post what you find out. Seek the truth!
Peace, love and good food!

flygal

08-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Of course, I agree. However, I do not see honest exchange as bickering and find the arrogance a bit off-putting. Whole Foods is the foremost symbol of dishonest practices put forth with so much crap it sickens me. Ask the meat department what in hell is "fresh range beef..." Why do they put conventional produce next to organic if not to deceive? There are pictures of farmers hanging in WF that have retired, don't actually sell to WF anymore because of the egregious undercutting, Oh Lord, so much more. How much in that deli case is really organic? While there are many ills in this world, the Bush Boys were the pinnacle of greed and subterfuge. WF is the Bush answer to the same. Corporations are certainly not evil in and of themselves...but they do demand that competition be squashed, prices be fixed and the worship of the bottom line always precludes humanitarian concerns. Starbucks is destroying family farm coffee growers and WF is messing with our beloved small family farms. Stay local, support your farm markets, YES, read labels, indulge if you feel like it but keep talking, thinking, arguing and definitely keep bickering. It can only lead to some form of truth.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and I do apologize if the word bickering came across as offensive. My point was just that there were some parts of this thread that were getting petty. However, being a huge fan of this topic I was simply thinking that people could spend their time being productive by finding out the real reasons why they should buy local and read labels very carefully---look beyond the misleading images of happy cows and green farms, and take a look at what is really going on...

Are the corporations you purchase from, such as Horizon Organic milk, getting in serious trouble because of abusing their cows and not adhering to organic standards? Is Monsanto the driving force behind a great majority of the modified corn products found in the ingredients of your favorite packaged food? Does Woodstock Farms buy their goods from places such as China and Peru, while advertising that they are supporting their local farmers? The answer to all of these is yes.

But find out for yourself---just a few minutes spent on the internet (which we are all doing here) will give you more information than you probably want to know, but it will help you make informed decisions the next time you are going to spend your money. Here is a great resource to begin with: Organic Consumers Association (https://www.organicconsumers.org/)

One more good suggestion is to support our local CSA's? In my opinion, that is one of the best things a person can do. It is money well spent because you can develop a relationship with the farmer who is growing your food.

Actually, the fact that this discussion is even happening between so many, makes me very happy. I keep a blog on topics such as these. My latest post is about the atrocities of buying conventionally produced eggs. Talk about labeling untruths, the majority of egg labels are incredibly misleading!!

If anyone is interested in some more reading, you can check it out. Happy Reading!
"Cool Earth Topics" Blog...
(https://www.coolearthtopics.blogspot.com/)

photolite

08-10-2009, 09:19 PM

I appreciate your comments, justme! And I have some comments on them...

There's liberal and then there's... dare I say it... conscious...

Barry, Please dare not to say it. It's just one more label that encourages some to feel "special" or "chosen" which promotes self righteousness or smugness. Who among us can really assert that we're more "conscious" than anyone else.

It calls to mind the old story of Jesus standing up to the mob about to stone a transgressor. He declares "Let any who have not sinned cast the first stone" at which point an old lady steps up and chucks a rock, and of course the entire mob follows suit, to which Jesus replies,
"Ma, sometimes you can really piss me off!" :hilarious:
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