May we discuss Boundaries? [Archive] - Page 2

hales

11-26-2008, 12:26 AM

Hi, wunda.. I like what you wrote. You expressed yourself very eloquently, I thought.

I did think was funny, though about hiding behind the screen name, since I don't use one.. never felt I needed to. I've found that maybe it would have been a good idea, a few times, but just never got in the habit. (that's not having a boundary, when most people have one..)

As far as specifics, I find a lot of boundaries are just different points along a gradient, ie: in a relationship, one person has more need for tidiness, or for personal space, and the other person likes a more casual approach to housecleaning, and/or maybe like's more togetherness and intimacy. (uh, huh, it's from experience, but I see no need to disclose more; that is a boundary about personal privacy!)

I like to talk a lot and sometimes some of my friends think I talk too much. Other people seem to enjoy it, though. I'm trying to listen better, and also find folks that are cool with my communication style, or at least wiling to help me improve.. ; )

I find boundaries often arise in intimate relationships in a different way than in less intimate friendships, and there is often an element of controlling the other person; there are some control issues involved.

I have some boundaries that are based on my values and ethics. I really try not to lie, steal, or hurt other people, for instance, and if someone does this to me, I may set a boundary that excludes that person in some way, depending on how serious the violation of my boundaries was; I don't generally feel obligated to be nice to, or have a relationship with anyone I can't trust. I don't believe in taking advantage of people and I don't like to take advantage of others.

I don't really like to be called at home by people I don't know, for sales or political reasons. I am pretty terse about letting them know this. And I have a boundary about calling people after 9 pm, unless I know for sure they are awake and willing to recieve calls.

etc. etc... ; )

Scott.

Do Right To Me Baby (Do Unto Others)

Don't wanna judge nobody, don't wanna be judged,
Don't wanna touch nobody, don't wanna be touched.
Don't wanna hurt nobody, don't wanna be hurt,
Don't wanna treat nobody like they was dirt.
But if you do right to me, baby,
I'll do right to you, too.
Ya got to do unto others
Like you'd have them, like you'd have them, do unto you.
Don't wanna shoot nobody, don't wanna be shot,
Don't wanna buy nobody, don't wanna be bought.
Don't wanna bury nobody, don't wanna be buried,
Don't wanna marry nobody if they're already married.
But if you do right to me, baby,
I'll do right to you, too.
Ya got to do unto others
Like you'd have them, like you'd have them, do unto you.
Don't wanna burn nobody, don't wanna be burned,
Don't wanna learn from nobody what I gotta unlearn.
Don't wanna cheat nobody, don't wanna be cheated,
Don't wanna defeat nobody if they already been defeated.
But if you do right to me, baby,
I'll do right to you, too.
Ya got to do unto others
Like you'd have them, like you'd have them, do unto you.
Don't wanna wink at nobody, don't wanna be winked at,
Don't wanna be used by nobody for a doormat.
Don't wanna confuse nobody, don't wanna be confused,
Don't wanna amuse nobody, don't wanna be amused.
But if you do right to me, baby,
I'll do right to you, too.
Ya got to do unto others
Like you'd have them, like you'd have them, do unto you.
Don't wanna betray nobody, don't wanna be betrayed,
Don't wanna play with nobody, don't wanna be waylaid.
Don't wanna miss nobody, don't wanna be missed,
Don't put my faith in nobody, not even a scientist.
But if you do right to me, baby,
I'll do right to you, too.
Ya got to do unto others
Like you'd have them, like you'd have them, do unto you.
Copyright © 1979 Special Rider Music

Gee i was born in a family that had little concern about boundaries... as i got older i found that i set lots and lots of boundaries as a way of rebelling against what i saw as a lack of concern for themselves and those they were responsible for.

As to unhealthy boundaries. Those arise out of fear. They can be identified by outsiders as having no logical value, except to exert some control over something or someone. Unhealthy boundaries interfere with the free exchange of love, and protect no one.

As i got a bit older, i saw the headache, heartache and missed opportunities that came from having rigid, plutonium alloy boundaries. And with help, i lowered my defenses and allowed some love in my life, and felt safe with vulnerability. Of course this came with new costs, new challenges and new rewards.

For now, my most prestigious boundary is one i set with myself. I insist on stretching my comfort zone trying new things, learning about new ideas and experiences. Of course, I still have a cautious curiosity and sometimes that means it takes me awhile to get to places that others go easily. But, I allow myself to be open to possiblities... and sometimes those possiblities turn out to be delicious adventures.

So, I see that there have been relatively few people who were willing discuss specifics in Mykil's threads. Come on now! You can hide behind your wacco screen names and still be honest. Its a relatively safe boundary yes?

mykil

11-26-2008, 08:11 AM

HERE IS ANOTHER one of scotts reply's Via hitting wrong BUTTON!!!!! LOL! Thank Scott! The button is on the RIGHT!! LMAO!! I used to use the wrong button all the time and even got into lots of hot water over it! I think Barry should move them further apart and maybe use Largermaybe even boulder or moe colorful font!

I'll try to keep this simple and direct. IMHO, in the sense of personal and interpersonal psychology or communications, a good boundary is one that creates some sense of safety, nurturance, health, pleasure, or other "good thing" for oneself, without impinging on the safety, enjoyment, health, or the well-being of another. An unhealthy boundary is one that does not respect one's own health, safety and greater good, or that of another. Not having any boundaries can be not so good, (for oneself, or others), and enforcing boundaries that are not sensitive to other people can go beyond healthy behavior or self-protection. (for instance in bad parenting, or abusive relationships.. )

I think personal boundaries generally exist because one is born with them, (skin, cell membranes, etc.), is trained to have them, (parental programming, school, peer pressure etc.), or because there is some perceived sense of threat or need for protection, containment, etc. This can be due to training, trauma, or incorrect interpretation of events. (see 2nd paragraph, below.. )

We learn a lot about boundaries from our mothers, depending on feeding, affection-giving, attention, toilet training, early education, etc. The fathers could be part of the picture, but IMO, aren't, for various reasons.

One metaphor might be the immune system of one's body. If it's healthy, it allows in good stuff, (nutrition, water, oxygen, etc.), and keeps out, or gets rid of bad stuff. (parasites, bad bacteria, viruses, toxins, etc.) This the idea of a semi-permeable membrane, we talked about. Sometimes it (the immune system), can get overactive, or hypersensitive, to the point that it thinks foods are toxins, (ie: allergies), or it can attack itself in extreme cases, such as auto-immune diseases, or cancer conditions.

I think a lot of our boundaries are created as a result of how we interpret out experiences, more than the experiences themselves. Probably two people could have comparable experiences but have completely different interpretations of them. Something happens, to us, or is instigated by us, and then we come up with a story about it. Part of our mind wants to explain things in a way that makes sense, relative to what we are familiar with. This part of the mind doesn't want to be left with no explanation for what is happening, because that is the only form of power that it has, the power of interpretation; that is it's job.

The above ramble is off the top of my head, I hope it simply gives some food for thought. Feel free to elaborate or disagree, etc.. ; )

Scott.

mykil

11-26-2008, 08:46 AM

wunda

11-26-2008, 09:50 AM

Scott,

Wow what an articulate metaphore for healthy boundaries!

I am in the middle of reading A Language Older than Words by Derrick Jensen. Your last big paragraph seems to echo some of what i am reading.

Regarding learning boundaries from mothers, I agree, but as evolutionary humans we also adapt, refine, poke holes in, tear down, reinforce, relocate, obliterate, build, and restore (among other things) them over time as our values, situations and needs evolve. I am guessing you also agree here too.

When this thread first started, i found myself not terribly interested in the topic. After spending several semesters in college examining boundaries froma sociological point of view, I think it was thoroughly exhausted. However, exchanging dialogue as humans of varying points of view and education is fascinating.

Scott, thanks for your rambling. And as to your button pressing... o wait, if i comment here i might be crossing a line! hehehe

Mykil, thanks for the thread and your fearless quest to examine the button pressing of others...

HERE IS ANOTHER one of scotts reply's Via hitting wrong BUTTON!!!!! LOL! Thank Scott!

I'll try to keep this simple and direct. IMHO, in the sense of personal and interpersonal psychology or communications, a good boundary is one that creates some sense of safety, nurturance, health, pleasure, or other "good thing" for oneself, without impinging on the safety, enjoyment, health, or the well-being of another. An unhealthy boundary is one that does not respect one's own health, safety and greater good, or that of another. Not having any boundaries can be not so good, (for oneself, or others), and enforcing boundaries that are not sensitive to other people can go beyond healthy behavior or self-protection. (for instance in bad parenting, or abusive relationships.. )

I think personal boundaries generally exist because one is born with them, (skin, cell membranes, etc.), is trained to have them, (parental programming, school, peer pressure etc.), or because there is some perceived sense of threat or need for protection, containment, etc. This can be due to training, trauma, or incorrect interpretation of events. (see 2nd paragraph, below.. )

We learn a lot about boundaries from our mothers, depending on feeding, affection-giving, attention, toilet training, early education, etc. The fathers could be part of the picture, but IMO, aren't, for various reasons.

One metaphor might be the immune system of one's body. If it's healthy, it allows in good stuff, (nutrition, water, oxygen, etc.), and keeps out, or gets rid of bad stuff. (parasites, bad bacteria, viruses, toxins, etc.) This the idea of a semi-permeable membrane, we talked about. Sometimes it (the immune system), can get overactive, or hypersensitive, to the point that it thinks foods are toxins, (ie: allergies), or it can attack itself in extreme cases, such as auto-immune diseases, or cancer conditions.

I think a lot of our boundaries are created as a result of how we interpret out experiences, more than the experiences themselves. Probably two people could have comparable experiences but have completely different interpretations of them. Something happens, to us, or is instigated by us, and then we come up with a story about it. Part of our mind wants to explain things in a way that makes sense, relative to what we are familiar with. This part of the mind doesn't want to be left with no explanation for what is happening, because that is the only form of power that it has, the power of interpretation; that is it's job.

The above ramble is off the top of my head, I hope it simply gives some food for thought. Feel free to elaborate or disagree, etc.. ; )

Scott.

MsTerry

11-26-2008, 07:17 PM

This is intriguing but true.
In intimate relationships, the boundaries are supposed to have disappeared into a more flexible transparent zone.
Is it really a control issue? Is it a fear of change?
How deep rooted do you think this is?

I find boundaries often arise in intimate relationships in a different way than in less intimate friendships, and there is often an element of controlling the other person; there are some control issues involved.

wunda

11-26-2008, 08:45 PM

More on boundaries...

I am really attracted to this guy's boundaries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

mykil

11-27-2008, 12:33 AM

Kinda a young Michael Moore kinda thingy going on there eh? LOL!

More on boundaries...

I am really attracted to this guy's boundaries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

alanora

11-27-2008, 08:44 AM

It sounds like any decision is a boundary, and, since we are always at choice......shifting boundaries are the norm. What is it we were looking at again? Where am I? (I used to wonder why I'd entered the other room and now I wonder where I am.) The hardest part of quitting smoking is the decision and, then remembering that that choice has already been made, on a moment by moment basis when necessary.

Here; P P sent me this I think it might have soemthing to do with PUSHING THE WRONG BUTTON ONCE AGAIN!!!! It really cracked me up!!!

Discussing boundaries, wow, I wish I had a camera that was giving off that kind of warmth, wherein I would be able to tell if the littlest of creatures were male or female. And yes, everyone in life, and most-likely thereafter, has an opinion with regards to every and anything. What topic exactly are we discussing? And man, there are not that many cars that come in and out of that parking lot, are there? As to questions, there is a "don't ask, don't tell," policy in-place, that has cramped the life styles of many in America. Baggage, there is always baggage, expensive baggage, Tumi, Gucci, Louie Vutton, Dunhill, and the like. Then there are the more reasonably priced pieces, I don't even remember their names. Genes, I like Genes by Mark Ecko, Juciy, and Seven's, and of course Levi, they stand the test of time, unlike some inherited genes, that seem to fall apart after years of abuse. While I don't partake in eating fish very often, either. I do think that if one eats the right type of fish, Salmon, Albacore Tuna, and deep ocean Cod, that it is most-likely very good of us. the Eskimos have very healthy hearts because of these fish, so scientists say. Who really knows though. Now smoking cigs, is a very different problem. There should be very strong boundaries with regards to smoking cigs. It's some very deadly stuff. Artificial boundaries, those are ones one puts in place when they badly want that other guy or gal that is so sexy, but threatening, that one does not know what to do for weeks at a time. When in reality, one should just go for it....:) Shut in, is not a boundary I would like to enact, or even inherit, or take up because of influences from others. That would not be a very good boundary, now would it? My greatest boundary is one that is self preservative, all assuming, and fun, living, laughing, and knowing those like individuals who got it going on...:)

wunda

11-27-2008, 11:47 AM

Kinda a young Michael Moore kinda thingy going on there eh? LOL!

heheh i think the sign is so sexy... lmao!!! actually i think his actions are incredible. I'd love be part of a movement like that in sonoma county... but i am so shy! Okay not really but it would be fun to do with a buddy. anyone wanna join me?

MsTerry

11-27-2008, 07:06 PM

Scott continues to press the wrong buttons or is it boundaries?

"Probably depends who is in the relationship. I don't know what you mean by "boundaries are suppose to have disappeared".. Isn't that an assumption of some kind? Some people are not at all interested in losing their boundaries. I think there are times
(in relationships I have been in..) when boundaries do disappear, and this is what I love about intimacy. I sometimes have problems
with people who need to be in control. sometimes I am attracted to people like this. I don't think I like to be a controlling person,
but I guess you have a point, that fear is what causes people to try to be in control in a way that is out of balance. (of course
there is a certain amount of control that is necessary, in anyone's life.) Probably these are questions that could generate as much
comment as this whole thread."I think one of the tantalizing aspects of being intimate is the dropping of boundaries to be able to get to know one on a "real" level.
For guys that usually means being able to fart while you are in bed with somebody.
For a woman, being able to connect on an emotional level is one of the finer experiences of intimacy.

wunda

11-27-2008, 08:09 PM

I think one of the tantalizing aspects of being intimate is the dropping of boundaries to be able to get to know one on a "real" level.
For guys that usually means being able to fart while you are in bed with somebody.
For a woman, being able to connect on an emotional level is one of the finer experiences of intimacy.

LMFAO... Thanks for that!

mykil

11-28-2008, 08:37 AM

MsTerry

11-28-2008, 10:10 AM

OK,
thanks for sharing

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CADMINI%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style> Cut to the chase, have sex, get that out of the way, fuck on the first date, and then decide if you like one another! LOL! Drop those boundaries and get right thru that sexual tension therefore it is out in the open, done with and the boundary issues are resolve. Then you may. Decide what kind of person it is and go from there! LOL! Fuck those boundaries and Fuck you too err me too! I have alwayz prescribed in the theory of fucking on the fist date just for this exclamation and it works wonders. It truly does. Nowww if I can only get thru top all the woman and make them see things my way LETS ALL FUCK ON THE FIRST DATE! Soooo drop those boundaries and lets get busy, want a mate what to see what the person is truly about>? Fuck on the first date! LMAO!!!!

alanora

11-28-2008, 11:09 AM

The opposite would be needing a year or more to truly almost know another, enjoy eachother's company and thoughts- allow them in and find you do not enjoy each other in the physical at that time, or that you do. I guess that would be a waste of time, gaining a friend........The first plan includes awakening a whole series of hormones that cloud vision til the honeymoon is over and then finding out who you are with one another. At least you are having sex.......(actually a much smaller part of overall relating and getting along then one would imagine from these postings)

 Cut to the chase, have sex, get that out of the way, fuck on the first date, and then decide if you like one another! LOL! Drop those boundaries and get right thru that sexual tension therefore it is out in the open, done with and the boundary issues are resolve. Then you may. Decide what kind of person it is and go from there! LOL! Fuck those boundaries and Fuck you too err me too! I have alwayz prescribed in the theory of fucking on the fist date just for this exclamation and it works wonders. It truly does. Nowww if I can only get thru top all the woman and make them see things my way LETS ALL FUCK ON THE FIRST DATE! Soooo drop those boundaries and lets get busy, want a mate what to see what the person is truly about>? Fuck on the first date! LMAO!!!!

wunda

11-28-2008, 12:51 PM

The opposite would be needing a year or more to truly almost know another, enjoy eachother's company and thoughts- allow them in and find you do not enjoy each other in the physical at that time, or that you do. I guess that would be a waste of time, gaining a friend........The first plan includes awakening a whole series of hormones that cloud vision til the honeymoon is over and then finding out who you are with one another. At least you are having sex.......(actually a much smaller part of overall relating and getting along then one would imagine from these postings)

Interesting how the topic of boundaries covers so many areas, of course sexuality being a hot topic (pun intended) around here.

I see the benefits to both ways.. At times the hormonal need to be sexual can cloud ones judgement when it comes to relationships, so releasing that energy would free one's mind up to look at the rest of the person. This philosophy makes me think of that overdone plot line around sexual tension at the office... Two people at odds who, once they clear off the table and fuck each other's brains out, can concentrate on negotiating the rest of their dealings. It's somewhat compartmentalized though yes?

However, getting to know someone's mind and heart, connecting through humor, time, deep conversation, silliness and shared experiences would make for a great build up to intimacy. The longing and wanting that builds, the eye contact and nonverbal exchanges of intimate knowing and desire... all of that comes from a thorough knowing and appreciation of a lover's whole being. This is a much slower, deeper process though. Patience seems key here....:idea:

Not that i am commenting on anyone's impatience ;):2cents:

mykil

12-20-2008, 01:21 PM

To be found sometimes is hard!
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I have been seeing this beautiful gorgeous blonde bomb shell of a lady come to purchase fuel logs at my shop for about ten years now. All the time I have flirted and given her the basic sharp tongue dialog I so often present in public and have alwayz just flirted till me heart was content. Alwayz looking forward to the next opportunity to see laugh and talk with her. She is married and quit content so never ever even pushing boundaries or really even thinking any thing would ever come of this. She has alwayz been all bubbly and blonde with nice err larger err wonderful eye candy lets leave it at that! What more could I presume to want to flirt with.
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Soooo just the other day she shows up as usual and presumes to mumble something that was beyond deep. I as I alwayz do just went off on a large tangent of what I presumed about he subject at hand. Leavening her jaw wide open and almost on the floor after about then minutes of my views on life in general about what she was getting all up in arms about she turns to me and states “OH you aren’t shallow at all are you”? I was laughing soo hard it really left an impression in my mind to say the least! Sometimes it only takes ten years eh?
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Soooo now her knowing I am not shallow kinda set me back a little. Where do I go from here? I asked “OH BTW what do you do for a living”? Ok, only ten years late but what the hay. Oh this cute little wonderfully attractive blonde bomb shell is a professor at one of our local universities! WoW! Now I am just as bad I really didn’t understand she also had an IQ! LMFAO!!!
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Was I better off not knowing and keeping my boundaries separate from each other as to not compromise such a wonderful and long lasting flirtation that may or may not submit to our true calling as philosophers and intellectuals as humans and not as primates that just see meat? Hmmmmm; gawd she is hotter than ever now!!!!!
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So she was pretty much under the same assumptions as I when we went our parting wayz, and as a last gesture of comfort and reassurance I promised to be as shallow as even upon her return, so she would not have to make a new life long commitment making her life more hectic in this simple yet ever turning environment we all share. Sometimes being shallow really has its place and this just goes to show some boundaries are better left in the dark and undisturbed eh?
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