Tell me men...What is the truth? [Archive]

Braggi

09-27-2007, 10:16 PM

I really do want to write an answer to this. It's complicated.

I'm attracted to skinny ladies as long as they look healthy. Anorexics need more help than I'm willing or able to give them. I like tall ladies. Also short ones. The older I get, the more I'm attracted to large ladies. Call 'em BBW or whatever, but not all of them. Just like not all of the skinny ones.

I want chemistry. I want to have someone look me in the eyes and see somebody in there. (Like you, Kali!) I want somebody to be attracted to me and not be afraid to show it or say it (not necessarily in public). I want to be welcomed into a woman's life and into her body. A woman who closes up when I get close will lose my interest quickly unless I learn why and how to build the trust required to grow past it. Don't be standoffish with me if we've gotten past early courtship. Don't play games. Don't cancel dates unless it's an emergency. I want to know I'm a priority in your life. I'll make you one in mine. Don't be unpredictable. I'll lose patience.

I want a woman who's comfortable in her body. One who likes her breasts just the way they are (unless there are medical issues and then I'll be very supportive of her decisions).

[edit] I want a woman who's sex positive. That means not ashamed about or afraid of sex. One who knows how to indulge in deep pleasure without a lot of emotional discomfort. I'd like to plan an evening where lovemaking is the number one priority. Forget about going out to dinner or watching a movie. Let's eat a nice meal, have a glass of wine and spend the rest of the evening in each others' arms.

I like intelligent, powerful ladies. Education and accomplishment I find attractive, though not necessary if we share values and have compatible spiritual paths. I want to grow with my partner(s).

I hope that helps. Ask more questions you'll get more answers.

-Jeff

Leelash

09-28-2007, 08:48 AM

I certainly don't have the answer to this but how about what attracts you to a man and makes you want to ask HIM out.

Try it. Sometimes it works!

iaim2xl

09-28-2007, 08:54 AM

Personally I love skinny women. But, to answer your main question, I think the Law of Attraction governs who we attract. Who you are and what you focus on emotionally (particularly at the subconscious level...) determines who and what shows up around you.

It's a simple truth that trumps all the circumstances and complicated explanations. The world's great teachings all speak to this. It applies to money, jobs, friends, you name it. It also applies to romance. The bottom line is when you truly FEEL desirable (at your core), voila, you are!

I have known beautiful, physically fit women that tried everything and never got asked out. I have also known unattractive women that had throngs of men constantly around them. It was because they were red hot mamas, and they knew it at their core. They oozed sensuality, and the universe responded accordingly.

So, if you are looking for something "out there," make a change "in here," and out there will respond. It's magic!

mykil

09-28-2007, 11:55 AM

I personally have about every preference available to mankind! I really love being so versatile. Every shape size age out there is my type! When I look Women in general, I am just in alwayz just in awe and pretty much want them all! Willie Nelson Jr. Wrote a song on this subject I think. I REALLY REALLY REALLY LIKE GIRLS. I love this song, and it has become a theme of mine to no end. As far as fat or skinny, I see much beauty in both breeds and can really fantasize about either, fat bottom girls you make this rocken’ world go round! I pretty much well rounded myself, plenty of fetishes to keep me entertained for this lifetime and on into the next I am hoping. If not I can alwayz pick up a few more on the way!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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The only think that I can say about asking a girl out is, I won’t do it if she is rude or insensitive toward others. If a woman is a happy go lucky type she has my complete attention and has my gratitude toward her. I wont even approach a woman that shows me just how bad the worlds is or is yelling at the little kiddies in a foul way. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just there is a way and a way not! If a woman looks at me with a nice smile, I will go out of my way to make myself known and approach her and see if there is an opportunity to make both of us happy and excited to no ends!<o:p></o:p>

fluteman

10-02-2007, 08:49 PM

I find one of the most desirable qualities to be calmness. Of course there has to be some physical chemistry, but I can think of nothing more attractive than a woman who is centered and doesn't let the little things in life get to her. We all have our moments where we slip and lose our center (and perhaps our temper)...but then again, this is when our true character comes out! I've been around too many woman who are into playing games, flaunting, teasing, and swept up in unpredictable tornado of drama. Life is too short...

To better illustrate my point, I find women in bathing suits, lounging in the sun to be extremely, extremely unattractive. Now while this may have a lot of folks rolling their eyeballs at me, let me explain. I grew up as a very overweight person...as a matter of fact I was almost 150 pounds overweight in high school. It wasn't until I was older, a bit thinner and a lot of confident in myself that I started dating, but after such an experience I now see the world very different than most.

Physical beauty doesn't impress me one bit. In fact, if I were to be totally honest, I tend to be a lot more critical of really attractive people. We live in a society that seems to think that a hot body means that someone is somehow "good" or better than the rest. Where did this nonsense come from anyway? We put people like celebrities on pedestals...all the while people all over the world are starving, yet we invest enormous amounts of time and energy to prattle on about how Brittney Spears put on 15 pounds. Yipes indeed, are we that shallow?

So when I meet a woman who has that inner calmness...someone who doesn't show very much of themselves on the surface...I am drawn, hooked in, I want to learn more about them. A mystery...it is like a puzzle...where will the pieces fit...and even more wonderful, what will the picture look like when you look deeply? The girls in their bikinis lounging in the sun (look at me, I'm so beautiful!)...to them all I can say is "blah!". :)

But the inner peace that I mention here goes both ways. I've found that in many instances in my own life, having that inner zen like state is invaluable. You can buy the best clothes, the fastest car, and get a plastic surgeon to give you a perfect pair of breasts or a bigger, better something (viagra, anyone?), but you cannot put a price on being able to keep your cool under the most difficult of circumstances life may throw at us. The person teaching how to reach "enlightenment" with Eastern mysticism could be the biggest jerk in the world, meanwhile the best Christians may never go to church...

Kindness, calmness, compassion...and perhaps beauty...it might be last...or not at all if viewed with the heart instead of the eyes. ;)

Deborah

10-03-2007, 08:35 PM

Not bad, I wish more felt that way...

Sincerely,
Deborah

jborges3

10-03-2007, 10:50 PM

Exactly what attracts a man to a woman and makes him want to ask her out?

Is it true the men are not really attracted to skinny women?

This man's eye is initially drawn to women that I think of as pretty. Earthy, natural, bright eyes, warm smile, long hair, nice feet. :):

If she is pretty, fun, smart and I want to kiss her, then I would ask her out.

I don't have a thing for "skinny" gals, her size doesn't matter much to me and I like woman of many sizes, though I doubt I would ask out a gal who was very over weight unless I met her through work or as a friend or something and got to know her that way first.

ThePhiant

10-04-2007, 09:36 PM

so I had to fly to NM a while back, on that cheapo-bring-your-own food-airline.
fluteman, you would have been in heaven.
I was seated next to this uglier than hell, fat-assed "woman"
she was so calm she wouldn't move an inch, it was all stuffed in her chair
she was very much into sharing, not only did she share her hairy armpit with me, she constantly tried to offer me some of her blubber while moving her arms
she didn't let those little farts get to her either, just everybody around her was gasping for air.
she didn't even loose her temper when she was paraded to 1st class and everybody else was cheering her on
a real champ
is that what you are looking for?

I find one of the most desirable qualities to be calmness. Of course there has to be some physical chemistry, but I can think of nothing more attractive than a woman who is centered and doesn't let the little things in life get to her. ...

purplepig

10-05-2007, 12:53 AM

Inner calm? Give me a woman with inner wild and the skill to use it. Depth of eyes? You'll never know what's going on in there. Give me lips.

boomerfashion

10-05-2007, 08:05 AM

Phlant,

I am fairly new to Wacco and do read it almost daily. I have to say I found your posting to be mean-spirited and indicative of insensitivity, anger, whatever. I'm not going to pretend to analyze your motives. I definitely understand the type of discomfort on a flight to which you refer and yes, it can be extremely unpleasant. Whether it's due to strong perfume, body odor, cramped quarters or just someone being overly chatty when I am trying to either read or nap. But really, Phlant, are you so fabulous that you think your (what appears to be) nasty comments to and about others I've noticed in this and your other postings are warranted?

Understand that I realize that not everyone is able to write in an accurate expression of what they are actually trying to say and if I am misunderstanding you, please accept my apology. It's just that this last post about the "woman" you describe was so unkind, I felt compelled to respond. Have you ever thought about what it might feel like to be inside of that body? And no, I am not overweight or particularly unattractive; so you can save any response that may allude to that.

If I had been in your seat, I would have been annoyed as well BUT I wouldn't have spewed the ugliness in a public forum.

Living on this planet can be hard enough, why trash some unfortunate person who has a difficult road to hoe as it is? You don't know why she is overweight or how she got there. Why not let it go and have a heart?

ThePhiant

10-05-2007, 10:00 AM

AHA
so it is not OK to tell the truth about how people look or act??????????
then why didn't you use your self -righteousness to set the fluteman straight when he goes off on people that are beautiful????
yes successful people are an easy target, but his flat out public condemnation of those who try to take care of their bodies as opposed to those who just let it go is like you said " mean-spirited and indicative of insensitivity, anger, whatever."

Phlant,

I am fairly new to Wacco and do read it almost daily. I have to say I found your posting to be mean-spirited and indicative of insensitivity, anger, whatever. I'm not going to pretend to analyze your motives. ...

Willie Lumplump

10-08-2007, 10:58 PM

Exactly what attracts a man to a woman and makes him
want to ask her out?

Is it true the men are not really attracted to skinny women?

Have some fun guys, but be honest.

Generally (with many exceptions), men are interested most in women who are interested in them. A woman who wants to attract a man should show interest in him by listening to him and asking questions about his life and his ideas. After that, humor is a big attractant to a guy. Many women are cheerful, and many will laugh at a man's humor, but I find that relatively few women are truly witty. A woman who learns to be witty has a great advantage.

ThePhiant

10-09-2007, 08:52 AM

Many women are cheerful, and many will laugh at a man's humor, but I find that relatively few women are truly witty. A woman who learns to be witty has a great advantage.

that is quite a statement from somebody who can't come up with his own monicker

mykil

10-09-2007, 10:11 AM

Wow, I knew your were a bit off there Willie, But I hadn’t figured you for a male chauvinist!!! LMAO!!! That has to be one of the most absurd things you have written their dude!!! Sounds like all women are beneath you, what’s next? If they don’t laugh at your jokes they are down right evil? LMAO! Peace and please try to remember, we are all equals. Even the WOMEN!!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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A have had a few woman think this way recently also, so I can sympathize a little<o:p></o:p>
I guess, crying on my shoulder, telling me it must be nice to be men cause our hearts can’t be broken! I just laugh and try to explain that we are all gods’ children, and yes even men’s hearts can be broken! It’s not true they say, so I go into detail about how it is people that get hardened, as we get older, or have many bad relationships. My heart has been broken soo many times, and it just doesn’t hurt anymore!!!! Well maybe a little! Not that I can’t fall in love, its just going to take a whole lot of Rosie!!!<o:p></o:p>
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Thinking that a woman needs to pay attention to you all the time in order for you to appreciate her is wild. Then with the idea’s that no woman is witty enough for you is just beyond the scope. What is a witty woman to do with you? I lovely ex was one of the wittiest people on this earth. That is not what attracted me to her, I think it was more of that blonde/blue thing she had going on. The wit was 24/7 though and this did make it entertaining, yet she just wasn’t the greatest in bed, and I do love my bed! Believe me I will ask you out, just be prepared to be exceptional in the bedroom or I will move on…. LMAO AGAIN!!!!<o:p></o:p>
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All people are different, all people like something different. If you don’t believe me just look at the many different couples you see walking down the street. The new studies are out. They took, I think, two hundred different people, put them together and by studying their nature, and guessed whom they would be attracted to. The results were astounding. They could just look at people and tell you whom out on the one hundred woman and one hundred men who would choose who. Nothing at all what you would expect, there was someone for everyone. Not just the bold and beautiful were chosen!<o:p></o:p>
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Of course Willie would choose the ones that think he is a god and beg at his feet for his attention… To each his/her own!!!!<o:p></o:p>
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Generally (with many exceptions), men are interested most in women who are interested in them. A woman who wants to attract a man should show interest in him by listening to him and asking questions about his life and his ideas. After that, humor is a big attractant to a guy. Many women are cheerful, and many will laugh at a man's humor, but I find that relatively few women are truly witty. A woman who learns to be witty has a great advantage.

boomerfashion

10-09-2007, 10:44 AM

Hello,

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused as to the point of this whole conversation......does anyone out there think that one person's response to what he find's attractive in women even remotely has anything to do with what anyone else finds appealing? Maybe it's me who is missing the point....This is an honest question, not meant to be judgemental, although I realize as I write that it does sound that way. Maybe, Lorrie, you were looking for a different piece of information???

Just wondering......

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 11:43 AM

Barry

10-09-2007, 01:30 PM

Much humor is satirical; watch any comedian on TV and you'll see this. ...I think that's the problem: TV poisoning! :tv:

The last I checked out the boob tube, I was aghast at how much of the "humor" was "satirical" put-downs, that is humor at someone else's expense. I don't know if this is part of the whole commercialization strategy (to make people feel inadequate so they buy more products) or that it's what garners the most eyeballs, but it's sick! Kill your TV and start treating people with respect!

ThePhiant

10-09-2007, 02:14 PM

I didn't mean my comment as a slur against women, and I stick to it.
yeah Willie, you should stick to your patriarchal, Neanderthal way of living.
that is why Mykil got plenty of women, and you got NONE

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 09:01 PM

I think that's the problem: TV poisoning! :tv:

The last I checked out the boob tube, I was aghast at how much of the "humor" was "satirical" put-downs, that is humor at someone else's expense. I don't know if this is part of the whole commercialization strategy (to make people feel inadequate so they buy more products) or that it's what garners the most eyeballs, but it's sick! Kill your TV and start treating people with respect!

Maybe, but I wouldn't want to give satire a bad name. Jonathan Swift was a satirist. Mark Twain was a satirist. Thomas Nast was a satirist. Walt Kelley was a satirist. These satirists and a great many more have made major contributions to society. Take away satire, and you take away an awful lot of humor. I guess we could all laugh at people who slip on banana peels, but to me that doesn't seem very funny or illuminating.

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 09:04 PM

yeah Willie, you should stick to your patriarchal, Neanderthal way of living.
that is why Mykil got plenty of women, and you got NONE

I beg your pardon? Among the many complaints that I have about my life, a shortage of women is not one. Au contraire . . .

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 09:07 PM

Not only satire, but violence, isolation and a whole host of other undesirable traits that will never be changed until women start rewarding men for being cooperative rather than competitive.

When a man who makes 30k a year teaching first grade is more attractive to most women than a lawyer who makes 300k a year arguing for a living, we'll see some major changes in the male behaviors we all know need changing.

I'm not so sure it's fair to blame women for men's generally competitive nature. There's no doubt that many of these behaviors are hard-wired into the human nervous system, and that's why they're so hard to change.

ThePhiant

10-09-2007, 09:17 PM

I beg your pardon? Among the many complaints that I have about my life, a shortage of women is not one. Au contraire . . .
name just one that can vouch for you

decterlove

10-09-2007, 10:42 PM

I dated a woman once who had an extraordinary sense of wit. She was very petite, but pound per pound, I think she was at least 100 times wittier than Paula Poundstone...

She was so funny though all the time, that I think she actually burned calories making her various satiric comments non-stop almost 24 hours a day. Think Robin Williams on Steroids! I mean when we woke up in the middle of the night to pee or something she would start cracking so many jokes that it was very hard for both of us to get back to sleep. We'd get laughing so hard we would actually fall off the bed, and after regaining our composure and getting back on top of the mattress, we'd wind up falling off again! Bruise City, I'm tellin' ya...she was like an Extreme Sport!

It became slightly troubling to me at times, though, and I should have known that there would ultimately be a terrible price to pay for all this laughter we were having. She couldn't stop! She couldn't control her humor! She was a joke addict! She lived to joke rather than joked to live! And she kept losing more and more weight with each new joke she memorized until soon this very pretty little witty woman became a very witty itty bitty little bitty itty pretty witty woman. She became dangerously thin and she shrank vertically as well, as so much of her life force was now wholly devoted to this all consuming passion and purpose of her life. It negatively impacted our sex life also of course, because every time we would start making out...well you know...she would start making jokes!

Finally one night after she had reached nearly Lilliputian proportions, I woke up in bed and I could hear her cracking jokes and laughing very loudly (especially for such a now ultra super petite sized woman...at this point much, much, much smaller than your average sized store bought Barbie doll) but I could no longer find her in the bed. I jumped up and despite tossing all the sheets aside, and searching inside the pillow cases, and in the duvet cover, and even under the mattress, I just couldn't find her anywhere! I could still hear her fading hysterical laughter though and soft mutterings to herself...something about a priest and a rabbi going into a bar. It was eary.

I never saw her again after that but I did hear some neighbors laughing loudly down the street one evening a few weeks later, and have always wondered if they were laughing at her...or with her, perhaps...or just at That Seventies show...

I still dearly miss all the fun times we had together. I don't know if I've shed any further light on the original issue in question, but I had to get this off my chest...I've never actually been able to share it openly with anyone before....and it happened almost two months ago! thanks!

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 11:05 PM

Yes, hardwired because we evolved that way. Men who were successful competitors for resources and social stature have always been rewarded with the most desirable females.

I'm not blaming either sex, but I am pointing out that it's unrealistic to expect men to simply stop doing what they've evolved to do if women continue to reward them for being competitive, as women have evolved to do.

Good point!

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 11:08 PM

I never saw her again after that

. . . and she faded away until nothing was left of her but her smile.

Willie Lumplump

10-09-2007, 11:16 PM

name just one that can vouch for you

Vouch for me? Vouch for me, you ask? Well, none, of course. If had ever found one to vouch for me, I wouldn't have needed the many others who wouldn't vouch for me. I think this is self-evident. I'm surprised that you needed to ask.

Braggi

10-10-2007, 08:16 AM

Lorrie, are you getting anything of value out of this discussion?

I notice your absence.

-Jeff

ThePhiant

10-10-2007, 08:47 AM

did your snake get to her??? (no pun intended LOL)

I dated a woman once who had an extraordinary sense of wit. She was very petite, but pound per pound, I think she was at least 100 times wittier than Paula Poundstone......

ThePhiant

10-10-2007, 08:49 AM

aahhhh
you are back to smoke and mirrors
and here I thought you scientist only believed in HARD evidence

Vouch for me? Vouch for me, you ask? Well, none, of course. If had ever found one to vouch for me, I wouldn't have needed the many others who wouldn't vouch for me. I think this is self-evident. I'm surprised that you needed to ask.

decterlove

10-10-2007, 09:22 AM

It's possible, but even he doesn't like women that silly. Hard to swallow when they're always joking around so much. I honestly think she totally transcended time and space by her total commitment to Transcendental Chuckling. It's a scary path though...I don't think I'm capable of that level of commitment to always be searching for new material. Not to mention the need to shop for stylish clothing in smaller and ever smaller sizes. My suspicion is that she was probably totally stark naked when she finally left the physical plane.

Now I'm looking for a woman who's never, ever, even once giggled in her whole life. Know any hot babes that can keep a totally straight face through an onslaught of new Polish jokes?

did your snake get to her??? (no pun intended LOL)

mykil

10-10-2007, 09:40 AM

Now I'm looking for a woman who's never, ever, even once giggled in her whole life. Know any hot babes that can keep a totally straight face through an onslaught of new Polish jokes?

Oh my, this is almost too good to pass up, but I won't!!! LOL!!! There definitely was a good joke in three somewhere!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Oh yeah; the lovely Lorrie is in Oklahoma for another week so she should be amazed by all the replies in her box on her return!!<o:p></o:p>
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ThePhiant

10-10-2007, 09:46 AM

it is my understanding that Willie HumpHump has soooooooooooooooo many women knocking on his door that I am sure he can share one with you.
she might have bugs all over her though...............

Now I'm looking for a woman who's never, ever, even once giggled in her whole life. Know any hot babes that can keep a totally straight face through an onslaught of new Polish jokes?

ThePhiant

10-10-2007, 09:49 AM

Mykil
this is not the censored section,
please behave

she should be amazed by all the replies in her box

decterlove

10-10-2007, 10:00 AM

I think Willie's on to something to tell ya the truth. I'm going to try and move over to his neighborhood and get some of the action. Maybe hang out by the mailbox. Damn the bugs, Robin....full speed ahead!

it is my understanding that Willie HumpHump has soooooooooooooooo many women knocking on his door that I am sure he can share one with you.
she might have bugs all over her though...............

Willie Lumplump

10-10-2007, 02:24 PM

aahhhh
you are back to smoke and mirrors
and here I thought you scientist only believed in HARD evidence

I had more than enough hard evidence to go 'round until recent years, when advancing age compelled me to accept a certain softness. I mourn the loss, but each age has its own losses and compensations.

mykil

10-10-2007, 02:27 PM

Willie, if you are worried about the effects of Viagra, don't be!!!! the worst that can hapen, is it will kill you!!!

Willie Lumplump

10-10-2007, 06:41 PM

Willie, if you are worried about the effects of Viagra, don't be!!!! the worst that can hapen, is it will kill you!!!

I face death unafraid.

fluteman

10-10-2007, 09:46 PM

Willie Lumplump

10-10-2007, 10:11 PM

Thank you for this post, Clancy. I've been forced to ignore most of what's been discussed here (especially the recent drivel), but this certainly hit home for me.

I once told one of my martial arts teachers some years back that due to my highly misunderstood views on romance, relationships and life in general that I must have been born in the wrong century. For whatever reason, most of my beliefs were seemingly old-fashioned and outdated, leaving me as an obscure and undesirable enigma to the opposite sex. His reply, however, was that I was "perhaps born too early", rather than "too late"...

It gives me hope, sometimes. :Yinyangv:

Ah, at last a contribution of substance! Light-hearted banter can be such a tedious affair, and, even worse, modern.

If I may suggest, Oh Player of Flutes, there are certain ways of relating that have currency in any age. Empathy doesn't come and go out of style. Neither does compassion. Neither does a sincere interest in other people, nor a willingness to share from one's heart, nor a sense of when the time is right for light banter versus serious discussion. A man who cultivates these qualities in himself will never lack for female companionship and will always eventually find love. Also, if I may be so bold as to volunteer an opinion, a martial arts instructor is not necessarily the first person from whom to seek insight into matters of the heart. In fact, I find that the greatest experts on this subject usually are women, women who themselves display the high qualities to which a man aspires. But maybe that's just me.

Mallory

10-18-2007, 12:05 AM

mykil

10-18-2007, 10:02 AM

Wow First LULU tells me I hate my mother cause I can’t settle down, and now this! I didn't realize wanting to spank a variety of woman made me a woman hater. And wanting to date till I found the right one meant that I was a woman hater also. Who would have thunk it??? I guess I will be that FREE therapy after all LULU please email me and we can begin our sessions again!!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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I did go out with a man haters a few nights ago, it was all bad. She was really cute, I asked her out, and she said no, she had a boyfriend. I went on with my business, she walked over with a piece of paper and pencil, asked for my number and called me that very evening. WE went out the next day. I asked about her boytoy and got a “he had sex with another woman, I am not sure what I am going to do” ruse. OK! WE went to eat wound up at the beach and I continued to play with her we had allot of fun till we were done. THEN she became an evil man hater, I decided she was before we even went out but thought I would give her a chance to open herself up to me. She decided it was my entire fault that we went that far and how could I possibly take advantage of her and the situation. And that she was going back to her boytoy. All of this was in less than about ten minutes. Which is what I pretty much expected, it was a grudge f… LMAO so I let her have her way with me and I suffered the consequences! NO wonder why I am a woman hater!!! LULU can you fix me?????
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In general, this collection of posts are rather horrifying. There seem to be a few of you here who might want to find out why you hate women so much...or should the word be "contempt?":(:

:::waves to Braggi who ISN'T included above::::fempirate:

ThePhiant

10-18-2007, 10:24 AM

I thought you were going to leave our little affair private.
Mykil do you have to process EVERYTHING in public?

Wow First LULU tells me I hate my mother cause I can’t settle down, and now this! ...
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Willie Lumplump

10-18-2007, 01:04 PM

In general, this collection of posts are rather horrifying. There seem to be a few of you here who might want to find out why you hate women so much...or should the word be "contempt?"

"In general" and "a few of you" strike me as very safe comments because nobody can be sure exactly what or whom you're talking about. If you want to denounce what you see as woman hating, I hope that you'll find the courage to stand up and speak out.

Willie Lumplump

10-18-2007, 01:09 PM

I did go out with a man haters a few nights ago, it was all bad. She was really cute, I asked her out, and she said no, she had a boyfriend. I went on with my business, she walked over with a piece of paper and pencil, asked for my number and called me that very evening. WE went out the next day. I asked about her boytoy and got a “he had sex with another woman, I am not sure what I am going to do” ruse. OK! WE went to eat wound up at the beach and I continued to play with her we had allot of fun till we were done. THEN she became an evil man hater, I decided she was before we even went out but thought I would give her a chance to open herself up to me. She decided it was my entire fault that we went that far and how could I possibly take advantage of her and the situation. And that she was going back to her boytoy. All of this was in less than about ten minutes. Which is what I pretty much expected, it was a grudge f… LMAO so I let her have her way with me and I suffered the consequences! NO wonder why I am a woman hater!!! LULU can you fix me?????

Congratulations, Mykill, you've had a textbook encounter with a rapo artist. Rapo is a game (a technical term used in transactional analysis) described by Eric Berne in his book "Games People Play." You might want to read that to protect yourself in the future. What you experienced was rapo "light," but there are heavier versions that are much more dangerous.

ThePhiant

10-18-2007, 07:18 PM

LULU can you fix me?????

YES, of course I can
but why would you want to?

Mallory

10-19-2007, 11:03 AM

"In general" and "a few of you" strike me as very safe comments because nobody can be sure exactly what or whom you're talking about. If you want to denounce what you see as woman hating, I hope that you'll find the courage to stand up and speak out.

What does writing indicate about the writer?

Here are a "few" of the things I noted while reading this thread:

Which of these do YOU consider female positive?

1. A man will ask a woman out for many reasons, usually for sex [at least legit but still objectifying]

2. I have also known unattractive women that had throngs of men constantly around them. It was because they were red hot mamas, and they knew it at their core. They oozed sensuality, and the universe responded accordingly. [more objectifying]

3. I don't have a thing for "skinny" gals, her size doesn't matter much to me and I like woman of many sizes, though I doubt I would ask out a gal who was very over weight [contradictory]

4. I was seated next to this uglier than hell, fat-assed "woman" she was so calm she wouldn't move an inch, it was all stuffed in her chair she was very much into sharing, not only did she share her hairy armpit with me, she constantly tried to offer me some of her blubber while moving her arms she didn't let those little farts get to her either, just everybody around her was gasping for air. [quite mean descriptives - hateful]

5. That is not what attracted me to her, I think it was more of that blonde/blue thing she had going on. The wit was 24/7 though and this did make it entertaining, yet she just wasn’t the greatest in bed, and I do love my bed! Believe me I will ask you out, just be prepared to be exceptional in the bedroom or I will move on… [more objectification]

6. ...I think that men's preoccupation with competition, status, and prestige predisposes them to satire... Not only satire, but violence, isolation and a whole host of other undesirable traits that will never be changed until women start rewarding men for being cooperative rather than competitive. [suggests women are responsible for how men think about and act toward them]

7. When a man who makes 30k a year teaching first grade is more attractive to most women than a lawyer who makes 300k a year arguing for a living, we'll see some major changes in the male behaviors we all know need changing. [suggests women are responsible for how men think about and act toward them]

8. I did go out with a man haters a few nights ago, it was all bad. She was really cute, I asked her out, and she said no, she had a boyfriend. I went on with my business, she walked over with a piece of paper and pencil, asked for my number and called me that very evening. WE went out the next day. I asked about her boytoy and got a “he had sex with another woman, I am not sure what I am going to do” ruse. OK! WE went to eat wound up at the beach and I continued to play with her we had allot of fun till we were done. THEN she became an evil man hater, I decided she was before we even went out but thought I would give her a chance to open herself up to me. She decided it was my entire fault that we went that far and how could I possibly take advantage of her and the situation. And that she was going back to her boytoy. All of this was in less than about ten minutes. Which is what I pretty much expected, it was a grudge f… [contemptuous and objectifying]

Keep in mind: These are the stories and comments you are choosing to share with the women and other men reading this thread. Of all of the things you 'could' have posted to indicate what aspects of a woman are attractive to you - why did you select these specific stories to post? This thread was started by a woman so consider what it suggests when this becomes your first and intentional response to a woman asking about attraction.

Mallory

scorpiomoon

10-19-2007, 11:37 AM

Can women respond to this question as well? What attracts me to women is intelligence and balance. What attracts me to men is purely chemical. It's a coded message on a DNA strand, and is obvious to me almost instantly if I am paying attention. So if the chemistry is there I don't care about much else at first anyway!!:heart:

Native Fine Eyes

10-19-2007, 12:40 PM

Exactly what attracts a man to a woman and makes him
want to ask her out?

Is it true the men are not really attracted to skinny women?

Have some fun guys, but be honest.

I haven't asked a woman "out" for a very long time. I ask her "in". There is no static formula , rno recipe or shopping list, no instruction manual or hard and fast guidline but this.....are we enjoying eachother. That is why i have sat for days at a time watching for someone interesting, in crowded places, walked thousands of miles seeking Her. There is a little bit of He that she dreams of in me. i see that when we are talking for the two or three minutes before she has to make that appointment or lunch or festival or ...whatever it is that's more important than this moment, the only one we might ever share. I lived here for eons before going out (and in0 to explore some other real estate. Coming back to what's left of my family and seeing what has happened to this area, I am more than a little disappointed. We used to go a little slower than in the bay area here, now SF is good for a rest. We used to have some reverence and respect for open space, growing food, dancing too rambunctiously, and being regionally identitied. Now people everywhere let their incoomes and jobs dictate who they are dangerously close to the lowest common denominator. As the property values have soared, so has paranioa, police atrocities, drug use and ultimate sin...waste. Folks who have homes hide inside them rather than enjoy the company of others a little further down the food chain for now. I say hello in the street and there's a 50/50 chance of being acknowledged or ignored.

What attracts me? Foreplay. That is the same as for She-Of-2-Hearts (A woman in Native Lore) ...communication, sharing of ideas and passions, dreams and goals and desires and beliefs. I am a thin man now after years spent as a pachederm. Skinny, not, somewhere between...living isn't a jeans commercial but if you are too ...anything it sygnifies a problem somewhere. Being very selective, I choose which problem are livable now. being helpful, I choose who it is I am able to help feel better about herself.And I am believing that when a man's response to this simple question immediately turns to sexual matters, he might not be paying attention.
That is sad and sinful (i.e. wasteful) for you are a gift, the only gift worth fighting for She-Of-2-Hearts. Yuor voice can be litened to as music or as noise. Yhis one chooses music. your thoughts can be viewed as inspiration or distraction. This one chooses inspiration. your entire self can be taken in as a fiesta or as the ball and chain. I choose Fiesta including the parade that precedes it, the fireworks and breakfast before cleaning up the next day. I thank all of you She's , for being born.
It might be a bit monotonous if we all were the same sized cookie, Cookie.

Steven*Native Fine Eyes*W.

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 01:18 PM

Which of these do YOU consider female positive?

1. A man will ask a woman out for many reasons, usually for sex [at least legit but still objectifying]

2. I have also known unattractive women that had throngs of men constantly around them. It was because they were red hot mamas, and they knew it at their core. They oozed sensuality, and the universe responded accordingly. [more objectifying]

3. I don't have a thing for "skinny" gals, her size doesn't matter much to me and I like woman of many sizes, though I doubt I would ask out a gal who was very over weight [contradictory]

4. I was seated next to this uglier than hell, fat-assed "woman" she was so calm she wouldn't move an inch, it was all stuffed in her chair she was very much into sharing, not only did she share her hairy armpit with me, she constantly tried to offer me some of her blubber while moving her arms she didn't let those little farts get to her either, just everybody around her was gasping for air. [quite mean descriptives - hateful]

5. That is not what attracted me to her, I think it was more of that blonde/blue thing she had going on. The wit was 24/7 though and this did make it entertaining, yet she just wasn’t the greatest in bed, and I do love my bed! Believe me I will ask you out, just be prepared to be exceptional in the bedroom or I will move on… [more objectification]

6. ...I think that men's preoccupation with competition, status, and prestige predisposes them to satire... Not only satire, but violence, isolation and a whole host of other undesirable traits that will never be changed until women start rewarding men for being cooperative rather than competitive. [suggests women are responsible for how men think about and act toward them]

7. When a man who makes 30k a year teaching first grade is more attractive to most women than a lawyer who makes 300k a year arguing for a living, we'll see some major changes in the male behaviors we all know need changing. [suggests women are responsible for how men think about and act toward them]

8. I did go out with a man haters a few nights ago, it was all bad. She was really cute, I asked her out, and she said no, she had a boyfriend. I went on with my business, she walked over with a piece of paper and pencil, asked for my number and called me that very evening. WE went out the next day. I asked about her boytoy and got a “he had sex with another woman, I am not sure what I am going to do” ruse. OK! WE went to eat wound up at the beach and I continued to play with her we had allot of fun till we were done. THEN she became an evil man hater, I decided she was before we even went out but thought I would give her a chance to open herself up to me. She decided it was my entire fault that we went that far and how could I possibly take advantage of her and the situation. And that she was going back to her boytoy. All of this was in less than about ten minutes. Which is what I pretty much expected, it was a grudge f… [contemptuous and objectifying]

Keep in mind: These are the stories and comments you are choosing to share with the women and other men reading this thread. Of all of the things you 'could' have posted to indicate what aspects of a woman are attractive to you - why did you select these specific stories to post? This thread was started by a woman so consider what it suggests when this becomes your first and intentional response to a woman asking about attraction.

Mallory

I understand your point, and I agree that we all will be better off when men learn to appreciate women's higher qualities. Nevertheless, I don't know what purpose it serves to be "appalled" when men display attitudes and behaviors that evolved over millions of years. The more enlightened of us strive to create positive cultural overlays for primitive instincts that are hard-wired into the male brain. We should also be aware that females have their own primitive instincts that need to be overcome. (For good evolutionary reasons, women generally are much more attracted to men who display material wealth, see your quote #7.) Your quote #4 seems irrelevant to me since it displays a pure meanness of spirit that is unrelated to the man/woman issue. Your quote #8 describes a woman who succeeds in engaging a man in the game of rapo (pronounced "ray-poe"), so your complaint that he was "contemptuous and objectifying" seems to miss the point entirely.

mykil

10-19-2007, 01:25 PM

Mallory; obviously you are the sort of woman that uses information against a man whenever you tend to get into an argument. This is the sort of woman I try to avoid with all due respect. If we can't be open than what is the point? Openness is all I am about, honesty and surly even telling nothing but the truth! Your mid level physiology skills are important in everyday life <o:p></o:p>
I am sure. Just not the kind I would pay money to listen to or even adhere to in the least bit. If I for one wanted To listen to a psychologist it would be my LULU!!! She is never wrong and alwayz has a really sarcastic way of bringing me around! LOL! AS far as being attracted to CUTE, I really don’t see the harm it this nor do I see me exposing myself here on wacco a big threat to my well being, this is what it is all about as I see it, one consciousness, one soul, oneness all the way! We are supposed to be evolving as a team, not one on one. So the only way to acquire this is to put it all out there and really tell each other what we really fell, soooo even if I disagree with what you have to say please continue and have a good time belittling us men! Or whomever you choose! Peace love and friggin granola darling!!! LMAO :2cents:

What does writing indicate about the writer?

Here are a "few" of the things I noted while reading this thread:...

Mallory

10-19-2007, 01:39 PM

The conversation you curiously find so appalling came out of the question 'Exactly what attracts a man to a woman and makes him want to ask her out?'

We are biological creatures, shaped by billions of years of evolution. I think you are confusing the way you wish the world were, with the way it actually is.

I've actually found these comments sad and symbolic of typical cultural violence toward women. We may be biological creatures but we are not 'solely' biological in our responses to any stimulation - humans do have higher brain function and it wasn't 'simply' biology that crafted the messages posted here, it was a union of these two aspects and more. Do I wish a message board titled 'conscious' relationships would display a bit more 'consciousness'? Yes.

Merriam Webster defines consciousness like this: perceiving, apprehending, or noticing with a degree of controlled thought or observation : sharing another's knowledge or awareness of an inward state or outward fact : personally felt : capable of or marked by thought, will, design, or perception

Try comparing the message texts to this concept - were they conscious answers? Again, extend this to include the knowledge that women would read the messages and that these particular messages were intentional and there are undertow messages here that go beyond unkind into power mechanics and behaviors.

Are 'notch-on-the-penis' motivations "conscious"?

Mallory :communication:

Becky

10-19-2007, 03:11 PM

You guys crack me up :hilarious:with so many different opinions there are bound to be disagreements. I just love how you all look at others so differently.

It makes me sad that most women are much more attracted to tall successful men than poor short ones.
what about the tall unsuccessful and short successful ones?....don't want to leave anyone out.

Mallory

10-19-2007, 03:39 PM

It makes me sad that most women are much more attracted to tall successful men than poor short ones.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Mallory wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=40081#post40081)
I've actually found these comments sad and symbolic of typical cultural violence toward women...
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Hi Clancy,

Recent studies are beginning to reflect changes in some long held ideas around attraction: https://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/apr/07/psychology.genderissues
https://www.syl.com/singles/datingstatistics.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/christine-whelan/swans-song-why-gentlemen_b_59431.html

In addition:

According to a 2006 Harris Interactive study, 71 percent of high-earning or graduate-educated men said a woman’s career or educational success makes her more desirable as a wife, 68 percent report that smart women make better mothers, and 90 percent of high-achieving men say they want to marry—or are already married to—a woman who is as or more intelligent than they are.

Women with college degrees, professional jobs, and higher incomes reported a significantly higher rate of orgasms than other women. This confirms a 1999 report by the reputable Journal of the American Medical Association: Women without high-school diplomas were nearly twice as likely to experience low sexual desire when compared with college-graduate women.

https://www.umich.edu/%7Eurecord/0405/Dec13_04/10.shtml
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81392.php

I am aware I am including articles from both perspectives. In my observation men and women are interacting, dating, and marrying regardless of finances or fidelity issues or height or weight.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21zernike.html?ex=1170046800&en=44c07299e70cdfec&ei=5

From a purely female perspective - it is easy enough to get a man's attention by waving sexuality at them - it is far harder to find men who can enjoy and engage in an interesting conversation. That 'cuteness' in my opinion is a very temporary biological umph - eventually they have to talk. ...not much to say to a vibrator.

Mallory

ThePhiant

10-19-2007, 04:34 PM

ThePhiant

10-19-2007, 09:48 PM

From a purely female perspective - it is easy enough to get a man's attention by waving sexuality at them - it is far harder to find men who can enjoy and engage in an interesting conversation. That 'cuteness' in my opinion is a very temporary biological umph - eventually they have to talk. ...not much to say to a vibrator.

Malloryon second thought, I am quite frankly getting tired of male bashing, whining women.
Mallory your male-phobic, stereotypical platitudes of a man leads me to believe that you never get out the door.
Are you describing your father, your brother or your uncle in your diatribe?

the only sensitivity women can come up with here on Wacco is to let everybody know that somebody else (usually The Phiant) has hurt their feelings by telling the truth they don't want to hear. boohooohooooooooo
the only person who REALLY is willing to be sensitive is Mykil, AND HE IS A MALE and willing to prove it!!!
he may be circumsized, but at least he has got the balls to make a fool out of himself, to show some humanity in exposing himself. he writes about things that happen to him, and how he wonders how it all fits in the big scheme of things. yeah He can't spell, doesn't quote scientist, but he does talk about REAL things, instead of platitudes.
we laugh at him, make fun of him
and STILL he gets up every day with a smile on his face
HOW IS THAT FOR A MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION!!!!
can you name one woman like that???

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 10:09 PM

It makes me sad that most women are much more attracted to tall successful men than poor short ones.

Another example of a way in which women need to overcome their biology-based inclinations and develop the kind of higher consciousness that Mallory is talking about.

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 10:22 PM

Again, extend this to include the knowledge that women would read the messages and that these particular messages were intentional and there are undertow messages here that go beyond unkind into power mechanics and behaviors.Mallory.

But that's exactly the point, isn't it? Why "power mechanics and behaviors"? Where do these ideas come from? Do men just make them up because they enjoy them? If they do, whey do they enjoy this particular kind of mechanics and behaviours rather than some other kind of mechanics and behaviors? You give the impression of an agonized woman shaking her fist at the heavens and complaining that life isn't fair or as good as is should be. Well, sure. But if you want to do something about the problem, isn't the first step to understand the nature of the problem? Don't you need to know and accept exactly what you're up against? You seem to rail against this basic factual understanding and want to jump directly to shaking your finger under our (men's) noses. I agree with your basic point, I just think that you're approaching it unrealistically.

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 10:42 PM

hmmmmn... a cursory glance at any personals listing service in the country suggests that finances, fidelity, height and weight are VERY important to many if not most people.

I've had contact with many, many women over a long period of (involuntary) bachelorhood . . . women in Texas, Maryland, Massachusetts, and California. I've met these women in a wide variety of ways--through friends, internet dating services, self-help groups, cold contacts in grocery stores and on the street, etc. And I can tell you that financial security and/or physical appearance (mainly height) were extremely important to a large majority. I've had the experience of seeing life from on top, where I am now, and from the bottom where I was for years at a time. It would take a lot to convince me that conclusions based on this large amount of accumulated experience are wrong.

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 10:46 PM

he has got the balls to make a fool out of himself, to show some humanity in exposing himself. he writes about things that happen to him, and how he wonders how it all fits in the big scheme of things. yeah He can't spell, doesn't quote scientist, but he does talk about REAL things, instead of platitudes. we laugh at him, make fun of him
and STILL he gets up every day with a smile on his face HOW IS THAT FOR A MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION!!!!

I must say, I agree completely.

Mallory

10-19-2007, 10:50 PM

on second thought, I am quite frankly getting tired of male bashing, whining women.
Mallory your male-phobic, stereotypical platitudes of a man leads me to believe that you never get out the door.
Are you describing your father, your brother or your uncle in your diatribe?

Repeated descent into ad hominem is just bad form (my opinion).

Logicians call personalizing an argument an ad hominem fallacy, or attacking the person, not the argument.

It remains my hope that 'most' men desire more than simple sexual conquest in terms of relationship objectives - as I noted earlier, if or when a male operates primarily or foremost from that objective it (IMO) reduces attractiveness or eliminates it altogether. How you got to your restatement here is beyond me.

Mallory

Willie Lumplump

10-19-2007, 10:50 PM

what about the tall unsuccessful and short successful ones?....don't want to leave anyone out.

In my considerable experience, tall and unsuccessful doesn't cut it. Don't know about short and successful.

Mallory

10-19-2007, 10:54 PM

My very limited point here was to reflect that in spite of these characteristics operating as influencing factors the vast majority of adult humans manage to partner up with some frequency over the course of their life. If these features truly inhibited connecting then only the 'tall/handsome/successful' model would be successful and everyone else would be celibate.

Mallory

Braggi

10-20-2007, 08:15 AM

In my considerable experience, tall and unsuccessful doesn't cut it. Don't know about short and successful.

This thread is supposed to be about what attracts a man to a woman. This side topic is about what piques the interest of a lady when a man makes overtures.

Willie, I find your statement untrue in my experience. I'm 52. Since I was about 35 I noticed most men in my age group carry around a large bulge in front. The percentage of rotund men has increased dramatically as I have gotten older. I find it unattractive and I think most women agree. So, a slender, or at least proportionate waist line in a mature gentleman is more important to women than height or "success." That statement is based on my experience and many discussions with dozens of women, not my opinion.

I'm 5'10" which puts me squarely in the "average" category of height. I have no discretionary income to speak of. I'm married to a "successful" woman by most people's standards. She's the primary breadwinner in my family. I'm much more the homemaker than the breadwinner kind of guy.

We're polyamorous to some degree, so I've remained in the "dating scene" despite being married. Let's just say I have the interest of a great many ladies, and should I lack for a date on a given evening I would have little problem filling that social gap.

So, I'm not tall, not "successful," Hel, I'm not even single, yet I have no problem finding a date. If I were to become single, I doubt I would remain that way for long.

Women want a man who is fit. All other arguments about appearance pale in comparison. I recently went to a party where the shortest man there was escorted by a tall, elegant, beautiful, intelligent young lady who looked real happy with her man. He is healthy and fit but neither tall nor rich.

Women want to be treated well, with respect, with gratitude for their gifts. They want to be nurtured. They'd rather have a nice dinner prepared for them at home than be taken to an expensive restaurant. A man who can cook is an asset. They want a man who's affectionate but who stops short of pawing them or smothering them, especially in public.

This one's important: They want to have a conversation without it devolving into a "who's right" contest. Everyone wants to be right, but men seem to have it more than women. Argument isn't sexy. My wife says, "... you can be right or you can be intimate." Choose intimacy if presented with the choice.

OK, enough preaching. In short, tall and successful are side issues. Fit, healthy and nurturing are far more important.

-Jeff

ThePhiant

10-20-2007, 09:58 AM

that things are beyond you is clear,
when you start repeating generalizations ad nauseum about men, you are in fact encouraging men to use stereotypes about bitchy women.
if you continue to hide behind platitudes, you will never be able to see a men (the dog) or a woman (the god) as a real person.
your life in camera is all but a fantorgasm, and NO ONE will be able to live up to your fata morgana
life is a personal experience.
that is what makes this BB so interesting

Repeated descent into ad hominem is just bad form (my opinion).

Logicians call personalizing an argument an ad hominem fallacy, or attacking the person, not the argument.

It remains my hope that 'most' men desire more than simple sexual conquest in terms of relationship objectives - as I noted earlier, if or when a male operates primarily or foremost from that objective it (IMO) reduces attractiveness or eliminates it altogether. How you got to your restatement here is beyond me.

Mallory

Mallory

10-20-2007, 10:02 AM

I want to take a moment to acknowledge the men and women who have posted here with thoughtful, positive insight into the women they find attractive.

I would also like to say that fitness in men is what some women might look for but like height or success it isn't the criteria guiding every woman. I happen to like men with character and a really excellent sense of humor, really good eyes and hands - one of the men I'm grooving on right now is very damaged, he is 'in literal terms' fighting with death on a daily basis so my 'grooving' isn't about the relative state of his body it is about his really excellent BEING.

Mallory

Willie Lumplump

10-20-2007, 10:28 AM

mykil

10-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Wow; I think I am the only one here at this point that still believes we are all equals, man haters, woman bashers, its just as well you would be a woman lover or a man lover, a male chauvinist or a love to be pussy whip dude that loves to get spanked by his woman. We are all equals and each of us have our own agenda’s in our eyes as far as how it is going to get done! Saying that we all don’t have a few issues is an understatement! LMAO! I go for cute, I can’t get past the blonde blue thing or the really long dark haired ponytails, or… god I really have it bad!!!! I am of course a natural voyeur!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
This brings me to an important question to me that I have wanted to ask for a while! I was going to post to Ms. Wacco, but I think it’s a more of a general embarrassment to ask One individual at any given point, and since everyone appears to be here, here is the question on my mind!
<o:p></o:p>
I was reading the woman seeking men the other day on Craig’s and came across an add by a woman that wanted a man without any fetishes. I was kind laid back by this and thought about all the friggin fetishes I have acquired over the years!
<o:p></o:p>
So is it a bad thing to have fetishes? Now before you answer with any man or woman bashing remember that men and women both have these fetishes. When I latch on to a new fetish it is almost like putting another notch on my belt and I am pleased with them, they make me extremely happy having so many. I can worship a woman’s feet massage them for hours on end, or spank a woman’s cute little tush. From one extreme to the other! LOL! This should be for some entertaining enlightenment to me and I can’t wait to hear what kind of psychological mumbo jumbo everyone will come up with! Peace.

ThePhiant

10-20-2007, 07:47 PM

that is why you are looking for someone and Jeff is not
LOL

Real intimacy is conceding a point when you are wrong, not denying reality when you are right for the sake of getting along.

ThePhiant

10-20-2007, 08:00 PM

one of the men I'm grooving on right now is very damaged, he is 'in literal terms' fighting with death on a daily basis so my 'grooving' isn't about the relative state of his body it is about his really excellent BEING.

Mallory

so now you want to play the sympathy card.
in your profile you state: more open to relating than dating - quite frankly I don't have much discretionary time.
this combined with your desire to pigeon hole all men, leads me to believe that you are only capable of having a relationship with men from a safe distance.

ad interem, how is your relationship with your father?

Willie Lumplump

10-20-2007, 09:31 PM

Real intimacy is conceding a point when you are wrong, not denying reality when you are right for the sake of getting along.

I dunno. I think we have to ask "denying reality to whom?" Sometimes I think I know what's really going on but just keep quiet about it. That seems to lubricate a relationship. I heard recently about a study indicating that the best predictor of marital happiness is the frequency with which the man lets the woman have her way. I can believe it.

Willie Lumplump

10-20-2007, 09:33 PM

Whether your overall point is right or wrong, this particular argument is fallaceous. It's argument from false dichotomy.

What I meant to say was the "fallacy of the excluded middle."

Mallory

10-21-2007, 12:38 AM

so now you want to play the sympathy card.
in your profile you state: more open to relating than dating - quite frankly I don't have much discretionary time.
this combined with your desire to pigeon hole all men, leads me to believe that you are only capable of having a relationship with men from a safe distance.

ad interem, how is your relationship with your father?

My father has been deceased 20 years, my husband has been deceased 15 years so I suppose they are both at a 'safe' distance given your descriptive choices. Your desire to 'pigeonhole' my desires or my capabilities speaks solely to your issues, not mine. As to sympathy - we are all dying and we are not all fit and not all of us equate fitness to attractiveness - quite frankly I am attracted to this man's naked spirit whose exposure is certainly driven by his precarious health. If you are moved to sympathy by my descriptive that is your emotion or your feeling - I don't own it nor have responsibility for it. Your emotions and feelings emerge from your cognitive process.

Braggi

10-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Yes, the pendulum has swung. Women used to be taught that being agreeable was the key to a happy relationship, now men are supposed to play the Stepford Wife.

I think women have been supporting men's fragile egos for so long it's overdue that men give in now and then. I have a sister-in-law who has to conform to her husband's desires so consistently she barely has a life outside of her husband's shadow. It's really not cool because she's such a beautiful being and she's really stunted by her role as supportive wife (although her whole family thing is really beautiful too).

Generally speaking it's pretty easy for me to go along with my wife's desires because our values are very well aligned. What makes her happy is usually what makes me happy. I have to give up what I would consider a personal pleasure now and then because it's something she wouldn't want to do, but these are usually small sacrifices.

I love pleasing my wife and I love being generous and the self satisfaction that comes along with it. And you know what they say down South: "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

I'm not sure if it's "the pendulum swing" we're witnessing or if balance in society is being restored, but I think it's a change for the better.

-Jeff

Mallory

10-21-2007, 03:33 PM

Mallory

10-21-2007, 05:19 PM

Um... how do you explain all the evolutionary psychologists who also happen to be feminists?

'Belief' in evolutionary psychology is as irrelevant as whether one believes or not in evolutionary biology, plate tectonics or mathematics.

Hi Clancy,

Actually I thought it was a rather humorous new study with some interesting features that reminded me of recent discussions here.

Maybe I read something different in the article than you did.

:walking:

Willie Lumplump

10-21-2007, 05:33 PM

Believers in evolutionary psychology maintain that feminism sets itself in opposition to millions of years of anthropoid evolution, and is thus futile and inhumane to men. Allegations made by believers include references to putative differences in math skills between men and women, a supposedly irresistible but entirely non-visually stimulated female attraction toward powerful and/or arrogant males, and the existence of a genetically preordained male right to multiple female sexual partners.

sound familiar?

https://faultline.org/index.php/site/comments/belief_in_evolutionary_psychology_may_be_hardwired_study_says/

The website that you cite is run by a blogger and self-described "nature and science writer," Chris Clarke. Clarke claims to have summarized a paper published in a German scientific journal. In fact, most of the words that you used in your post are those of either Clarke or the author of the paper (perhaps an English-language abstract?), I'm not sure which. Whatever the case, by quoting without proper creditation, you leave yourself open to charges of plagiarism. Not a serious crime in a community bulletin board, but something to keep in mind for the future.

On to the subject of Clarke himself: Who is he? What are his academic credentials? What qualifies him to speak on the subject of evolutionary psychology? If he's a "nature and science writer," what has he written? I could discover the answers to none of these questions in my brief googling of his name.

You might ask the same questions of me, since I'm challenging your post. I have a Ph.D. in a biological science from U.C. Berkeley, and though evolutionary biology hasn't been the main focus of my research, I'm now writing a manuscript that does relate directly to that subject. In any case, I grasp the basic concepts of sociobiology, which includes evolutionary psychology. I've also read works by Dr. Helen Fisher, an anthropologist specializing in the evolutionary basis of the love relationship between men and women.

Everything I know about the subject of evolutionary psychology leads me to believe that Chris Clarke, whoever he may be, is full of s---, at least regarding the subject that we're talking about here. Before you credulously accept the word of an unknown blogger who presents neither academic credentials nor a publication list that would facilitate a check on his qualifications, I'd suggest that you think twice. The world is full of scam artists, pretenders, and puffery. Skepticism is always appropriate.

"Mad" Miles

10-21-2007, 06:00 PM

JHFC!

Clancy, Willie,

It's a JOKE!

Which you, Clancy, acknowledged, but by criticizing and dismissing it as "sarcastic satire" made yourself the butt of! Come on, the lion joke didn't make you laugh?

And Willie, really, are you so humor-impaired to have actually taken it seriously? Enough to write a short refutation!? Are you really sure the "Luz-R" gene is unsubstantiated!?

I really am laughing my ass off at this very moment!

Not particularly "Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

P.S. Mallory, good work, I've enjoyed and appreciated your posts. Although sometimes, even quite often, I wonder why you bother? Perhaps that speaks something about you that should be researched?

ThePhiant

10-21-2007, 06:31 PM

My father has been deceased 20 years, my husband has been deceased 15 years so I suppose they are both at a 'safe' distance given your descriptive choices.
one of the men I'm grooving on right now is very damaged, he is 'in literal terms' fighting with death on a daily basis so my 'grooving' isn't about the relative state of his body it is about his really excellent BEING.

Repeated descent into ad hominem is just bad form (my opinion).
Logicians call personalizing an argument an ad hominem fallacy,mallory it is clear from the above quotes that you don't follow your own opinions, nor did you answer my question
I suppose your anger at men and fear of abandonment brought you to the place where you are at.
it's never too late to get in touch with your feelings!
Love
LuLu

Mallory

10-21-2007, 09:52 PM

Not particularly "Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

P.S. Mallory, good work, I've enjoyed and appreciated your posts. Although sometimes, even quite often, I wonder why you bother? Perhaps that speaks something about you that should be researched?

Hi Miles,

Thank you :) Timing is always a curious phenomenon to me - on the surface, my intersection with this message thread appears quite random but, of course, it can't be or I simply wouldn't have expended the effort in continued response so, of course, I must be working on something here through which this thread became a mirror opportunity. So, you are correct.

Mallory:thinking:

Willie Lumplump

10-21-2007, 11:05 PM

JHFC!

Clancy, Willie,

It's a JOKE!

In that case, I'd be interested in knowing how far back the joke started. I suppose only Mallory could tell me that.

Maybe my sense of humor has been so dimmed by creationism, intelligent design, astrology, extrasensory perception, synchronicity, homeopathy, crystal healing, astral travel, scientology, spirit guides, and new ageism that I'm no longer able to distinguish between a fool playing the part of a rationalist and a rationalist playing the part of a fool. Maybe I am over the hill, after all.

"Mad" Miles

10-22-2007, 08:20 AM

I'd bet a thousand dollars that Miles or Mallory didn't know it was a satire, and I'm really disappointed to see such intellectual dishonesty.

Clancy,

I'll take your $1,000.00, happy to have it! Now just what would constitute proof of humor awareness in your book? So far as I know there is no video surveillance tape of me as I read it. So there is no catching me in the act of laughing as I read it. Doesn't my reply of "gratitude" to Mallory serve as circumstantial evidence?

As for intellectual dishonesty, well, tell me, what is Truth? If you can successfully answer that one you'll have bested generations of philosophers, the current one still struggling with that basic, and surprisingly complex (as evidenced by much stumbling about without any defined terms and other forms of inchoate and confused discussion on this board, particularly recently, but pretty much off and on all the time) question.

Willie,

Don't be so hard on yourself, there are plenty of others on this board willing to do it for you! And if it is any consolation, I too have found myself in a similar situation.

Sometimes my credulousness vies with my gullibility to keep me from seeing the joke. Wylie of Stiff Dead Cat had me ordering the "Dicken's Cider" from the special bottle kept behind the bar and never advertised at Ace In The Hole a couple of summers ago. It took me an embarrassing length of time to figure that one out and realize who was the butt of that prank!

The "Luz-R" study bears rereading, because it is such a brilliant combination of subtle combined with blatant absurdity, satire and actually pretty good natured humor. It doesn't just send up Neandertal Male thinking, it also rips on the dry humorless sincerity of pseudoscience masked as science, and science itself. That's why it's so funny!

Thanks again Mallory!

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

"Mad" Miles

10-22-2007, 08:46 AM

Clancy,

Dude, If you're not aware of the form of humor that involves deepening a joke by appearing to take seriously what is evidently not serious, well then, you're both more humor-impaired than you first appeared and not very funny, or fun!, to boot. Or is that butt?

The form of humor that I just mentioned, happens to be my favorite. Sometimes it gets me in trouble because the receivers really think I'm serious, but I take the risk.

Because either I'm appreciated for my subtle sense of the absurd. Or I'm laughed at by those who are too simple to get my sophisticated joking.

In the latter case I've accomplished two other tasks, spotting the humor-limited and getting to be the fool while laughing inside at the foolishness of those laughing at me.

In other words, my favored form of humor is fool-proof!

BwaaaahhhaaaahhhhaaaaaahhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaA!

Oh wait, maybe it's also your favored form? Hence your reasoned and seemingly sincere recent responses? Willie's? Everyone's? Maybe we're all just too clever, by half!!! (Ya gotta love the Brits.)

"M"M

:burngrnbounce:

Mallory

10-22-2007, 09:19 AM

Okay, I will fess up to 2 items...

First, I was unable to figure out how to link the entire Luz-R quote like I would have done on my blog and inadvertantly this allowed some to think I wrote any part of the Luz-R (which I didn't and NEVER meant to suggest that I did).

Second, the Luz-R was floating around my f-list on LJ to the guffaws and chuckles of my friends before I posted the link to it here - my hope was to 'leaven' the discussion here a bit... I too thought the humorous quality of it was easy to pinpoint. My tells for this would be the absence of directing the post toward any person as a response to anything and the "enjoy" tag I placed with it.

my bad

Mallory :idea:

Braggi

10-22-2007, 09:34 AM

Okay, I will fess up to 2 items...
my bad
Mallory :idea:

So naughty! Mallory needs a spanking!

<table class="tborder" id="smilietable" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1">:whip:</td> <td class="alt1">
</td></tr></tbody></table>-Jeff

decterlove

10-23-2007, 06:06 PM

Seriously, doesn't ANYBODY Know any totally hot babes that can keep a straight face through an onslaught of BRAND NEW POLISH JOKES???:heart::heart::heart:

geez....I just checked this thread after a week or two of absence and everybody is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO SERIOUS ABOUT THE SUBJECT!:hello:

Shows ya just how far we've all actually come in resolving all this gender crap over the last 30 years.:Yinyangv::Yinyangv::Yinyangv::Yinyangv:

And not once has anybody even mentioned Dr. Warren Farrell.:hmmm:

Oh well, why men are the way they are, and why it is the way it is.....

later folks! Did Lorrie ever get back? The question was SOOOOOOO LOADED from the get go! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::whip::whip::whip:

Willie Lumplump

10-23-2007, 07:34 PM

First, I was unable to figure out how to link the entire Luz-R quote like I would have done on my blog and inadvertantly this allowed some to think I wrote any part of the Luz-R (which I didn't and NEVER meant to suggest that I did).Mallory :idea:

What's to figure out? You put quotation marks around the words you're quoting and then put the name of the person you're quoting at the end. That's pretty much the format you're already using in waccobb, isn't it?

Barry

10-23-2007, 09:49 PM

What's to figure out? You put quotation marks around the words you're quoting and then put the name of the person you're quoting at the end. That's pretty much the format you're already using in waccobb, isn't it?Well, no. You put a "[ quote]" before the quote and a "[ /quote]" (note the backslash) at the end (without the space following the "[" ).

I've been fixing your quotes for a while now, Willie! No worries...

I will be doing a video demo of quoting in the next week or three.

Braggi

10-23-2007, 10:02 PM

I've been fixing your quotes for a while now, Willie! No worries...

The Ghost in the machine.

-Jeff

Lorrie

10-30-2007, 03:06 PM

Well, hello everybody! I am back. I posted two questions for the men before I left.

And now I don't know what happened to them....

They were simple enough. What attracts a man to a woman.
I expected answers like: "Their sense of humor." I like women who are caring and sensitive." or I am attracted to a women who is attracted to me......"

And to answer the second question was Yes, or NO, or I like em a little curvy, or, yes Skinny is the way to go for me....

But that just didn't happen... well it started to at the beginning and then I guess Mallory didn't like the answers?

Now, I sort of know what attracts a woman to a man, height weight cash in pocket good job? I guess....

And then abunch of junk as far as I am concerned cause it had nothing to do with the questions I had asked.

I guess I should not ask questions cause no one can give a straight answer on here. Or everyone takes a thread and removes it from the poster's perspective and makes it their own question and then answers it for themselves.

It was no big deal. I thought there were enough men on here one of em should be able to just say what attracts them to the opposite sex. Whatever it was.

I am baffled.

I am bummbed that I could not get a straight answer....
OR maybe I didn't get the answers I was looking for?
Hmmmmm......

Well thank you Mallory Clancy ThePhiant, Mykil, BraggiJeff, Willie, dectorlove and Mad "Miles" for trying I hope you all had fun!

But I still don't know exactly...
It was a serious question, for me to post and ask.

Anymen want to be serious and try again? If not, please by all means .... forget it.
~Lorrie

Willie Lumplump

10-30-2007, 08:56 PM

Well, no. You put a "[ quote]" before the quote and a "[ /quote]" (note the backslash) at the end (without the space following the "[" ).

I've been fixing your quotes for a while now, Willie! No worries...

I will be doing a video demo of quoting in the next week or three.

Apparently I had my head up my wazoo when I read this. It's all crystal clear. It was my mind that was muddy.

Willie Lumplump

10-30-2007, 08:59 PM

Anymen want to be serious and try again? If not, please by all means .... forget it.
~Lorrie

I thought I responded directly to your question in my post #14. What did I miss?

jborges3

10-30-2007, 09:22 PM

My post was #9 and it was serious.

I don't have a black or white answer for you on what I like. There is no simple "yes or no" for many of us it seems.

I can tell you didn't like what you heard, but that doesn't mean our answers are wrong.

You could try being glad instead. Another way of looking at these answers is that many of us won't decide if we like you or not based on your dress size. Isn't that a good thing?

I thought there were enough men on here one of em should be able to just say what attracts them to the opposite sex. Whatever it was ...

I am baffled.

... anymen want to be serious and try again? If not, please by all means .... forget it.
~Lorrie

Braggi

10-30-2007, 10:32 PM

I am bummbed that I could not get a straight answer....
OR maybe I didn't get the answers I was looking for?
Hmmmmm......

Mine was post #3.

I was bummed you never answered me or any of us.

Perhaps you could better describe what you were or are looking for.

I did offer to answer more questions, but you didn't ask any.

So?

-Jeff

AllEars

10-31-2007, 12:01 AM

Exactly what attracts a man to a woman and makes him
want to ask her out?

Is it true the men are not really attracted to skinny women?

Have some fun guys, but be honest.

I remember back in the late 70s I participated in an exercise in a personal growth group some folks online will remember, lifespring. One exercise we did in about the middle of the five day personal growth experience, was to have to stand staring at a person of the opposite sex we are most attracted to.
I was ashamed as I was among a crowd of 5 or 6 guys looking at a very curvacious and lovely woman. Everyone else from 1 to 3 males were standing by and staring at a variety of woman in personality and appearance.

I tried to maintain an image of being a young yogi with wisdom and discovered I had one thing on my mind! In retrospect I probably really liked another gal who was more slim and less showy. But I knew I had to be honest with myself...I don't know what went through the woman's mind with all of us staring at her! When it came time for the woman to stand near and stare at the men, two woman did so with me and neither was the sexy lady
I stood and stared at. I have evolved since then...my lady is slim and kind of muscular.

fluteman

10-31-2007, 12:20 AM

While I know my reply was a bit long winded, I did share that I admire calmness and that I am greatly attracted to a woman with a very mellow and non dramatic personality. Looks aren't as important to me as most guys I know.

But...if I was going to be really, really, really honest, when I first saw this thread, the first thing that popped into my mind was:

"Women who DO NOT POST ON WACCO!!!!" :heart::eek::heart:

Based of course, on the fact that I've several women approach me on this site who seemed to be more inclined to play mind games than come across as sincere. Keep in mind, however, since I've yet to initiate any even remotely potential romantic contact with any women on here, this type of behavior has struck me as rather odd...so I've just accepted that while there are many things I do like about this site, it is definitely not a place to look for romance, at least for me...:hmmm:

Lorrie

10-31-2007, 10:13 AM

Well you show a bit of confidence. That is nice. I appreciate that you answered sincerely. That is what I was looking for, a simple answer. Yours is that you are attracted to a calm no drama type of woman and that looks are not as important to you. I also understand that you are attracted to women who do not post on WaccoBB because the women who do post on WaccoBB are not sincere and try to mess with you. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my sincere question.!

While I know my reply was a bit long winded, I did share that I admire calmness and that I am greatly attracted to a woman with a very mellow and non dramatic personality. Looks aren't as important to me as most guys I know.

But...if I was going to be really, really, really honest, when I first saw this thread, the first thing that popped into my mind was:

"Women who DO NOT POST ON WACCO!!!!" :heart::eek::heart:

Based of course, on the fact that I've several women approach me on this site who seemed to be more inclined to play mind games than come across as sincere. Keep in mind, however, since I've yet to initiate any even remotely potential romantic contact with any women on here, this type of behavior has struck me as rather odd...so I've just accepted that while there are many things I do like about this site, it is definitely not a place to look for romance, at least for me...:hmmm:

Lorrie

10-31-2007, 10:17 AM

Wow! I find this fastinating! Thank you for sharing... It is kinda like life in motion too for real! I wonder what I would have learned from this excersise exactly....

I remember back in the late 70s I participated in an exercise in a personal growth group some folks online will remember, lifespring. One exercise we did in about the middle of the five day personal growth experience, was to have to stand staring at a person of the opposite sex we are most attracted to.
I was ashamed as I was among a crowd of 5 or 6 guys looking at a very curvacious and lovely woman. Everyone else from 1 to 3 males were standing by and staring at a variety of woman in personality and appearance.

I tried to maintain an image of being a young yogi with wisdom and discovered I had one thing on my mind! In retrospect I probably really liked another gal who was more slim and less showy. But I knew I had to be honest with myself...I don't know what went through the woman's mind with all of us staring at her! When it came time for the woman to stand near and stare at the men, two woman did so with me and neither was the sexy lady
I stood and stared at. I have evolved since then...my lady is slim and kind of muscular.

Lorrie

10-31-2007, 10:35 AM

I know and I am sorry My timing got messed up. I am spur of the moment type person. The thought crossed my mind and I thought since there are men here what better place to put the question out. (captive audience so to speak) well I was also in the middle of clearing my desk for my two week vacation and went on vacation. No email anywhere I went. I don't have a laptop and my email is at work. sooo... I apologize. Yes you had a very good answer to my question.

You are attracted to skinny ladies as long as they look healthy, tall ladies, also short ones. The older you get, the more you are attracted to large ladies. So basically all types I guess...

You are attracted to women who are open with themselves in everyway. Their life, their bodies, their minds, their time.
You are attracted to a confident woman who is intelligent, honest and accomplished.

Thank you for your imput and time to answer.
By the way this is what you said in your email...I hope I understood it correctly:

I really do want to write an answer to this. It's complicated.

I'm attracted to skinny ladies as long as they look healthy. Anorexics need more help than I'm willing or able to give them. I like tall ladies. Also short ones. The older I get, the more I'm attracted to large ladies. Call 'em BBW or whatever, but not all of them. Just like not all of the skinny ones.

I want chemistry. I want to have someone look me in the eyes and see somebody in there. (Like you, Kali!) I want somebody to be attracted to me and not be afraid to show it or say it (not necessarily in public). I want to be welcomed into a woman's life and into her body. A woman who closes up when I get close will lose my interest quickly unless I learn why and how to build the trust required to grow past it. Don't be standoffish with me if we've gotten past early courtship. Don't play games. Don't cancel dates unless it's an emergency. I want to know I'm a priority in your life. I'll make you one in mine. Don't be unpredictable. I'll lose patience.

I want a woman who's comfortable in her body. One who likes her breasts just the way they are (unless there are medical issues and then I'll be very supportive of her decisions).

[edit] I want a woman who's sex positive. That means not ashamed about or afraid of sex. One who knows how to indulge in deep pleasure without a lot of emotional discomfort. I'd like to plan an evening where lovemaking is the number one priority. Forget about going out to dinner or watching a movie. Let's eat a nice meal, have a glass of wine and spend the rest of the evening in each others' arms.

I like intelligent, powerful ladies. Education and accomplishment I find attractive, though not necessary if we share values and have compatible spiritual paths. I want to grow with my partner(s).

Mine was post #3.

I was bummed you never answered me or any of us.

Perhaps you could better describe what you were or are looking for.

I did offer to answer more questions, but you didn't ask any.

So?

-Jeff