Illegal Immigrants And The March

[helenscott08]

I debated with myself as to whether I wanted to do this posting or not. I know it may create hard feelings by some but this is something I feel I must do or I will have only myself to blame for any problems arising if the illegal immigrants are allowed to stay for any amount of time.

I am considered a SENIOR. During my life I have met people from all over the world. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY great. RIGHT NOW, there are probably thousands of people from countries AROUND THE WORLD who have gone through LEGAL PROCEEDINGS to come to this country. In most cases, there are fairly long waiting periods. I don't know if this is still true or not but I believe that it was required of the prospective immigrant to have an AMERICAN SPONSOR and a job awaiting them when they arrived in the USA. As I said, I am not sur if this is true or how long that condition was a factor in coming to the USA.

Most of the people who came over until the Mexicans began coming in such droves ILLEGALLY, worked just as hard as any Mexican, and perhaps harder. They also worked to learn the language AND WAYS, AND LAWS of the US.

The Mexicans I see today don't seem to have any desire to do this. They take their children to stores, all types, and NEVER TEACH THEIR CHILDREN to speak in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I have seen them spit on the sidewalks and streets.

The point I am trying to make is THAT IT IS UNFAIR to allow people of any country to come over here illegally and THEN BE ALLOWED to become a citizen just because they are already here. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE who applied legally years ago and are still waiting???

And, again, I am not an authority on such matters but it was always my understanding that the country tried to allow a balance of immigrants from each country so all countries would be treated fairly and we would NOT BE OVERWHELMED with immigrants from one country.

I know a lot of people and honestly have only met one person who is for having the illegal immigrants into this country as citizens...I could go on and on about the costs to the country but it has been pointed out in so many other avenues I don't think I need to do so here. If you read or listen to the radio or TV at all, you have heard all the reasons why I and many, many others feel as I do.

AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I AM WONDERING THIS: where in the world are the people who feel as I do. The media does not do much publicizing about this factor of the population at all. Why???

JUST to set the record straight. I am NOT AGAINST LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO. ONLY THOSE WHO COME OVER HERE IGNORING ALL THE COUNTRIES RULES.

AND FINALLY, WHY, if they can get up so much steam to DEMONSTRATE AND PARADE here in the US for their SO-CALLED RIGHTS, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and work there to make things better so they would not have to leave the country??????

helen scott

[Muel]

Right on Helen! I am also a senior and have come to feel strongly about all the points you raise. If I were to decide to emigrate to France I could not expect that country to make English a second language just so I did not have to learn French. It seems to me that we need a good and well monitored guest worker program as well as establishing real control of our borders. There is no solution to the problem unless we can really control who comes in and how they come in. People who arrived here illegally should not have an opportunity to achieve citizenship before people who have gone through the legal process and are waiting abroad for legal entry.
Barbara Mueller

I debated with myself as to whether I wanted to do this posting or not. I know it may create hard feelings by some but this is something I feel I must do or I will have only myself to blame for any problems arising if the illegal immigrants are allowed to stay for any amount of time.

I am considered a SENIOR. During my life I have met people from all over the world. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY great. RIGHT NOW, there are probably thousands of people from countries AROUND THE WORLD who have gone through LEGAL PROCEEDINGS to come to this country. In most cases, there are fairly long waiting periods. I don't know if this is still true or not but I believe that it was required of the prospective immigrant to have an AMERICAN SPONSOR and a job awaiting them when they arrived in the USA. As I said, I am not sur if this is true or how long that condition was a factor in coming to the USA.

Most of the people who came over until the Mexicans began coming in such droves ILLEGALLY, worked just as hard as any Mexican, and perhaps harder. They also worked to learn the language AND WAYS, AND LAWS of the US.

The Mexicans I see today don't seem to have any desire to do this. They take their children to stores, all types, and NEVER TEACH THEIR CHILDREN to speak in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I have seen them spit on the sidewalks and streets.

The point I am trying to make is THAT IT IS UNFAIR to allow people of any country to come over here illegally and THEN BE ALLOWED to become a citizen just because they are already here. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE who applied legally years ago and are still waiting???

And, again, I am not an authority on such matters but it was always my understanding that the country tried to allow a balance of immigrants from each country so all countries would be treated fairly and we would NOT BE OVERWHELMED with immigrants from one country.

I know a lot of people and honestly have only met one person who is for having the illegal immigrants into this country as citizens...I could go on and on about the costs to the country but it has been pointed out in so many other avenues I don't think I need to do so here. If you read or listen to the radio or TV at all, you have heard all the reasons why I and many, many others feel as I do.

AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I AM WONDERING THIS: where in the world are the people who feel as I do. The media does not do much publicizing about this factor of the population at all. Why???

JUST to set the record straight. I am NOT AGAINST LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO. ONLY THOSE WHO COME OVER HERE IGNORING ALL THE COUNTRIES RULES.

AND FINALLY, WHY, if they can get up so much steam to DEMONSTRATE AND PARADE here in the US for their SO-CALLED RIGHTS, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and work there to make things better so they would not have to leave the country??????

helen scott

[Tars]

I cannot relate to people who get so upset about immigrants/foreign workers (lazy illegal workers, greasers, spics, stinking wetbacks/brown menace/whatever) because they don't speak english. First-generation foreign workers (Frogs, Wops, Micks, or whatever they chose to call them then) typically didn't speak english, or spoke it poorly (see Germans, Italians, Polish, Puerto Ricans, Russians, French, etc.) Do yourself a favor and get over it. If they decide to immigrate permanently to the U.S., their descendants will speak english as badly as the rest of us.

My overwelming experience is that people fear what they don't understand and are unfamiliar with. I won't say that racism is the basis for the current anti-latino anxiety, but it looks alot like racism. I do think that it's human nature for "natives" (us) to fear or be anxious about other unfamiliar peoples (them).

Each ethnic group or nationality has gone through the same fear effect when they've come to the U.S. in droves. My Irish "wetback" (OK, drybacks...via Canada) ancestors experienced it. In a generation or two the nationalized latino population in the U.S. will probably feel anxiety and fear about all those goldanged Africans and Asians who're sneaking across the border.

Don't blame the latinos, blame the lame archaic foreign worker laws that the United States had put on the books by paranoid nationalists. Don't worry, be happy, their presence is improving your quality of life. Even if they don't talk like you.

[adamal]

While I agree that immigrants shouldn't be given citizenship just becuase they made it over here, but I don't agree with a lot of other points you brought up.

I live in an area heavily populated by latinos. I have noticed some bad kids, but I notice that wherever I go! I think that is across cultures, kids can just be bad nowadays. As far as kids not speaking Engilsh- maybe you haven't noticed, but usually the first generation family members do not speak English, but most kids I've met have picked up amazingly quick. But when they are around their parents, they speak to them in Spanish, becuase that is what their parents know.

At the same time, I get very angered at how citizenship is handed out. I used to work at a theme park on the east coast. They employed many foreign workers from Europe and some parts of Asia. One summer, there was a worker from Poland who hated America, barely spoke English at all and was the laziest worker I had ever seen. There was another worker from Poland who loved America, soaked up every bit of culture he could, spoke English amazingly well, and was a fantastic worker. They both applied for the citizenship "lotto" The first made it the very first time he applied. He then married his polish girlfriend so she could come over. The second had been applying for 3 consecutive years and never made it in. He came back three summers in a row to work at the theme park on a work visa. He worked 80 hour weeks at minimum wage to send money back home to his mother. That third summer, he knew he would have to go back to Poland becuase his number hadnt come back in the lotto. This made everyone sad, becuase he was such a great guy, and he loved everything about America. His girlfriend actually proposed to him, they were married two years ago and now they have a kid!

Anyway, long story short I guess, I wish there was a better system in place to weed out the people better. Not just, okay your number came up! I'm sure there is more to it than that- but wow.

I think Tars had a very accurate response to your post.

["Mad" Miles]

Thay took R Jaaahhhhbbbss!!!??? Thaay tuk R JAAAHHHBBBSSS!!!!?????

(South Park, A few years back.)

For a previous discussion of the issue of undocumented workers that took place on this board, check out:

https://www.waccobb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9252

And a belated (one day late) Happy International Workers Day to ALL WORKERS,

"Mad" Miles

:fist:

[Tars]

I think people become too hung-up on the "illegals becoming citizens" subject.

The huge majority of illegal foreign workers I've talked to do not really want to become U.S. citizens.

I've worked with, lived near, socialized with, latinos now for going on 2 decades. I take every opportunity I can to get their perspective on the "illegal aliens" issue. Almost all of them come here initially because of the bad conditions back home. They initially intend to come here, work for awhile, then go back home to fulfill their life dreams.

Our mis-guided, racist, fear-pandering laws make it next to impossible for foreign workers to come and go, so they are forced to stay here. While they're here they get involved with others like themselves, fall in love, get married, have kids, etc. At some point it becomes too difficult for them to return home to their country.

Whose fault is that? Not theirs; ours. This effect will become worsened by building dumb paranoia walls, and dead-end legal persecutions. If you truly want to end the illegal worker problem in the U.S., the quickest easiest way is to work for guestworker laws reform.

If they can come and go, they won't be ignoring our citizenship processes.

[Larissad]

RIGHT ON TARS!
I couldn't agree with you more. I also have some thoughts to add to the discussion...

A question for those who are so anti-illegal-immigrant: Who do you think picks your food and does all the terrible, dangerous, nasty work in this country that no one else will do? It's not us gringos.

My husband and I watched Fastfood Nation last night...well, we watched a little over half of it. We're going to try finishing it tonight. I couldn't handle it all in one sitting. If you haven't seen the movie, it tells a very realistic story of illegals and what their lives are really like.

How do I know it is realistic? Well...I volunteer with a local Santa Rosa organization that advocates for the working poor in Sonoma County. The people we help are farm workers, in home care workers, domestic workers, etc... Not all of them are illegal or even Latino for that matter. Many are white, but a portion of them are illegals. One of the things I do for the organization is medical advocacy for women. I take the women to a volunteer OBGYN (don't worry none of your precious tax dollars pay for this) for medical exams and treatment. Neither I or the doctor receive any money for this. We donate our services and time. I am with the women I advocate for, for the whole exam and so am privy to everything they tell the doctor. This is so I can more effectively help them with follow-up care. The stories they tell, shamefully, reluctantly and matter-of-factly are very depressing and even more depressingly are the rule not the exception. Every woman I work with has a similar horrific story...and also tell stories of horrific things that have happened to their sons, brothers, husbands and fathers.

One young woman (age 23) was drugged, kidnapped and gang raped repeatedly on her trek to cross the border. The men who did this to her were not all Mexican. American border patrol and civilian border patrol militias can be just as cruel if not worse.

Another woman I work with had three of her four sons die in the desert trying to cross the border. Not all of them died from exposure. Bullets were involved.

Another woman I have worked with (age 28) has an eight year old son that she left with her mother in Oaxaca. This young woman has ovarian cancer, most likely caused by exposure to toxic chemicals on her job here. But she is not getting treatment because her husband, who worked in one of the many wineries, was hurt on the job. He has a severe closed head injury. And now, even though she is throwing up every day and shitting blood, she is still going to work so she can pay the hospital bill and the ongoing bills for her husbands care and still finds some money to send back to her mother to help care for her son. The winery that employed her husband acts as if they never met him.

Another woman works for Amy's Kitchen, the same Amy's Kitchen who sells organic frozen prepared foods in WholeFoods and Trader Joe's. The conditions she is forced to work under have caused her numerous injuries. She is forced to work long hours without being paid overtime. She has no medical benefits.

I could go on and on like this but I won't.

So, even better than watching any movie, if you really want to try to understand the issue of illegal immigration I suggest getting to know these people for whom you have so much disdain. The problem is not illegal immigration it is racism, slavery, low cost goods and the distribution of labor. Think about it next time you sit down to eat.

As for asking why these Mexicans aren't "willing" to "stand up" in their own country...you have to wonder, if they are willing to take the risk to cross the border and then live here under the conditions I have described, how good do you think they have it in Mexico? Do you really think it is realistic to expect them too "stand up?" Put yourself in their shoes. If your children were starving and there were no jobs to be had but you could go to Canada and make some money doing a job that Canadians wouldn't do what would you do? How much do you care about your family?

US policy is what allows the governments of countries like Mexico to treat their own people so poorly. Our government created the root problem, not even touching on the fact that they stole California from Mexico to begin with.

I hope that Tars was right when they said that people fear what they do not understand. It would be dreadful and sad if the anti-illegal crowd knew this information first hand like I do and still had so little compassion for their fellow human.

Peace, Light & Love.

I cannot relate to people who get so upset about immigrants/foreign workers (lazy illegal workers, greasers, spics, stinking wetbacks/brown menace/whatever) because they don't speak english. First-generation foreign workers (Frogs, Wops, Micks, or whatever they chose to call them then) typically didn't speak english, or spoke it poorly (see Germans, Italians, Polish, Puerto Ricans, Russians, French, etc.) Do yourself a favor and get over it. If they decide to immigrate permanently to the U.S., their descendants will speak english as badly as the rest of us.

My overwelming experience is that people fear what they don't understand and are unfamiliar with. I won't say that racism is the basis for the current anti-latino anxiety, but it looks alot like racism. I do think that it's human nature for "natives" (us) to fear or be anxious about other unfamiliar peoples (them).

Each ethnic group or nationality has gone through the same fear effect when they've come to the U.S. in droves. My Irish "wetback" (OK, drybacks...via Canada) ancestors experienced it. In a generation or two the nationalized latino population in the U.S. will probably feel anxiety and fear about all those goldanged Africans and Asians who're sneaking across the border.

Don't blame the latinos, blame the lame archaic foreign worker laws that the United States had put on the books by paranoid nationalists. Don't worry, be happy, their presence is improving your quality of life. Even if they don't talk like you.

[alanora]

Spitting on sidewalks and streets may seem ok to you, however as a nurse I feel it proper to let you know that such habits can spread disease as well as being visually disgusting and icky.

I was born and raised in california and i am not mexican but I frequently spit on sidewalks and streets.....so, i cant share your complaint.

A tired, short sighted complaint, might I add

[alanora]

Spitting on sidewalks and streets may seem ok to you, however as a nurse I feel it proper to let you know that such habits can spread disease as well as being visually disgusting and icky and potentially slippery. Am curious as to why you think this opinion is short sighted or out of date? Respectfully, Mindy.

I was born and raised in california and i am not mexican but I frequently spit on sidewalks and streets.....so, i cant share your complaint.

A tired, short sighted complaint, might I add

[Diablo]

Sassydog, I think you are on to something!
I know you like dogs but there is this little something that has always bothered me about them.
THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH!
yes I know they are very good at pretending to understand what you are saying, but come on all that drool they deposit on OUR sidewalks.
and that is not the only thing they leave behind on our PUBLIC paths
POOP! sassydog POOP!
just the other day I had a nice big bonus stuck to the bottom of my shoe,
shared it all over town, but they didn't like it at Whole Foods for some reason, funny people over there
where do you think we should send them dogs to?
back where they came from????????

I debated with myself as to whether I wanted to do this posting or not. I know it may create hard feelings by some but this is something I feel I must do or I will have only myself to blame for any problems arising if the illegal immigrants are allowed to stay for any amount of time.

I am considered a SENIOR. During my life I have met people from all over the world. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY great. RIGHT NOW, there are probably thousands of people from countries AROUND THE WORLD who have gone through LEGAL PROCEEDINGS to come to this country. In most cases, there are fairly long waiting periods. I don't know if this is still true or not but I believe that it was required of the prospective immigrant to have an AMERICAN SPONSOR and a job awaiting them when they arrived in the USA. As I said, I am not sur if this is true or how long that condition was a factor in coming to the USA.

Most of the people who came over until the Mexicans began coming in such droves ILLEGALLY, worked just as hard as any Mexican, and perhaps harder. They also worked to learn the language AND WAYS, AND LAWS of the US.

The Mexicans I see today don't seem to have any desire to do this. They take their children to stores, all types, and NEVER TEACH THEIR CHILDREN to speak in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I have seen them spit on the sidewalks and streets.

The point I am trying to make is THAT IT IS UNFAIR to allow people of any country to come over here illegally and THEN BE ALLOWED to become a citizen just because they are already here. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE who applied legally years ago and are still waiting???

And, again, I am not an authority on such matters but it was always my understanding that the country tried to allow a balance of immigrants from each country so all countries would be treated fairly and we would NOT BE OVERWHELMED with immigrants from one country.

I know a lot of people and honestly have only met one person who is for having the illegal immigrants into this country as citizens...I could go on and on about the costs to the country but it has been pointed out in so many other avenues I don't think I need to do so here. If you read or listen to the radio or TV at all, you have heard all the reasons why I and many, many others feel as I do.

AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I AM WONDERING THIS: where in the world are the people who feel as I do. The media does not do much publicizing about this factor of the population at all. Why???

JUST to set the record straight. I am NOT AGAINST LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO. ONLY THOSE WHO COME OVER HERE IGNORING ALL THE COUNTRIES RULES.

AND FINALLY, WHY, if they can get up so much steam to DEMONSTRATE AND PARADE here in the US for their SO-CALLED RIGHTS, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and work there to make things better so they would not have to leave the country??????

helen scott

[Frank]

Sassy, you have balls to post an unpopular point of view, right here on Wacco. since some of us are censored here to say what they want I'll try posting this for Diablo

Sassydog, I think you are on to something!
I know you like dogs but there is this little something that has always bothered me about them.
THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH!
yes I know they are very good at pretending to understand what you are saying, but come on all that drool they deposit on OUR sidewalks.
and that is not the only thing they leave behind on our PUBLIC paths
POOP! sassydog POOP!
just the other day I had a nice big bonus stuck to the bottom of my shoe,
shared it all over town, but they didn't like it at Whole Foods for some reason, funny people over there
where do you think we should send them dogs to?
back where they came from????????

I debated with myself as to whether I wanted to do this posting or not. I know it may create hard feelings by some but this is something I feel I must do or I will have only myself to blame for any problems arising if the illegal immigrants are allowed to stay for any amount of time.

I am considered a SENIOR. During my life I have met people from all over the world. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY great. RIGHT NOW, there are probably thousands of people from countries AROUND THE WORLD who have gone through LEGAL PROCEEDINGS to come to this country. In most cases, there are fairly long waiting periods. I don't know if this is still true or not but I believe that it was required of the prospective immigrant to have an AMERICAN SPONSOR and a job awaiting them when they arrived in the USA. As I said, I am not sur if this is true or how long that condition was a factor in coming to the USA.

Most of the people who came over until the Mexicans began coming in such droves ILLEGALLY, worked just as hard as any Mexican, and perhaps harder. They also worked to learn the language AND WAYS, AND LAWS of the US.

The Mexicans I see today don't seem to have any desire to do this. They take their children to stores, all types, and NEVER TEACH THEIR CHILDREN to speak in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I have seen them spit on the sidewalks and streets.

The point I am trying to make is THAT IT IS UNFAIR to allow people of any country to come over here illegally and THEN BE ALLOWED to become a citizen just because they are already here. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE who applied legally years ago and are still waiting???

And, again, I am not an authority on such matters but it was always my understanding that the country tried to allow a balance of immigrants from each country so all countries would be treated fairly and we would NOT BE OVERWHELMED with immigrants from one country.

I know a lot of people and honestly have only met one person who is for having the illegal immigrants into this country as citizens...I could go on and on about the costs to the country but it has been pointed out in so many other avenues I don't think I need to do so here. If you read or listen to the radio or TV at all, you have heard all the reasons why I and many, many others feel as I do.

AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I AM WONDERING THIS: where in the world are the people who feel as I do. The media does not do much publicizing about this factor of the population at all. Why???

JUST to set the record straight. I am NOT AGAINST LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO. ONLY THOSE WHO COME OVER HERE IGNORING ALL THE COUNTRIES RULES.

AND FINALLY, WHY, if they can get up so much steam to DEMONSTRATE AND PARADE here in the US for their SO-CALLED RIGHTS, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and work there to make things better so they would not have to leave the country??????

helen scott

[GiGi]

3times is a charm, Right Barry

Sassy, you have balls to post an unpopular point of view, right here on Wacco. since some of us are censored here to say what they want I'll try posting this for Diablo

Sassydog, I think you are on to something!
I know you like dogs but there is this little something that has always bothered me about them.
THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH!
yes I know they are very good at pretending to understand what you are saying, but come on all that drool they deposit on OUR sidewalks.
and that is not the only thing they leave behind on our PUBLIC paths
POOP! sassydog POOP!
just the other day I had a nice big bonus stuck to the bottom of my shoe,
shared it all over town, but they didn't like it at Whole Foods for some reason, funny people over there
where do you think we should send them dogs to?
back where they came from????????

[mykil]

I have a take on this subject that I have been keeping inside for years, from one extreme to the other. I really have allot of friends that come over the border every year, as a matter of fact about twenty stay in my old house in Forestville, yes Twenty, all really hard working young men that just want to support there families back home. I have known allot of them for more than ten years, and I still can’t speak any Spanish! LOL! With that all said and done, there is the other side of the coin, the ones that come in and rob you blind, I think this is the worst someone can possibly do to another human being, besides shooting them in the head and leaving them for dead of course., This happens to me so often if really has left a really bad taste in my mouth. I think any one caught stealing should be just put in a truck and taken to the border and dropped off. PERIOD! Hell they will be back, but you know it is going to cost them money, there job they had, a really long period of not having any funds to send home. Maybe it would teach them something? As far as the Americans stealing and just jerking around our country, we should send them somewhere too! Like Detroit in the winter!!!!

[Larissad]

Good for you for your humanitarian efforts!
It's important to remember that there are bad apples in all of human kind, not just in certain ethnicities. We must continue our kindness towards others in spite of and perhaps even because of the "bad ones."
As for Detroit in the winter...Detroit is bad all year round. Though, I will give you that a Detroit winter is hell on ice. For a long time now things have been in bad shape there. They never really recovered from the riots or the auto manufacture pull outs. The place is an economic wasteland surrounded by self-centered-oh-so-white-bread-gentrified suburbs. I know. I went to high school in one of those suburbs and to college in downtown Detroit in the late 90's.
In Detroit it is Arabs and other Middle Eastern ethnicities that are constantly under attack as well as the African American community. The Greater Detroit Area has the largest population of Iraqis outside of Bagdad. However, with the continued downturn of the American Auto Industry the white middle and upper middle class are starting to get hit really hard there. My folks live there still in an upper middle class community in Oakland County, one of the richest counties in the US, and many of their neighbors are loosing their shirts and homes. My Dad has no idea when he will be able to retire or if he will still have a job in a year. It just goes to show that things are bad everywhere...all jokes aside.

I have a take on this subject that I have been keeping inside for years, from one extreme to the other. ...

[GiGi]

Mykill, thanks for sharing with us that you are personally involved in taking back OUR taxdollars from 20!! hard working people
no wonder you are so happy
they work and you collect the money!

love
GiGi

ps no bellydancing for you!

I have a take on this subject that I have been keeping inside for years, from one extreme to the other. ...

[mykil]

I don't get any money from them, what r u saying? I don't own the house they live in, as a matter of fact all they do is cost me money. I drive them home when they come back late from work and miss the boat, I seet hem around town walking, this costs me five bucks in gas everytime. They hang out at my store and get the best deals of anyone, they use my phone ten times a day, LIKE I SAID THEY ARE MY FRIENDS!!!! LMAO!!! U R too funny!!! I wanst going to respond to your post but what the hell!!!!

[davin]

the free markets a b***h, and all workers suffer becuase of it, across borders. Whats problematic is not defining the situation from its root, but rather from its logical consequences. Spitting, speaking spanish, marching, working (all terrible sins) are mere childs play compared to IMF impositions, NAFTA, Apache helicopters, S**T wages, environmental degradation, sweatshops, vigilantes, sell-out politicians, and torture. And dont think Cali got to being the 5th largest economy in the world, with agriculture its largest industry, without this labor force (90% being undocumented). Dont fool yourselves. "They" take jobs while we outsource? Very peculiar. "They" take services, while we fund illegal wars? Hmmm. Dont fake the funk, the developement of one can only come at the underdevelopement of the other, thats the ball game, and heads of state (again, across borders) are compliant. Put the system on trial, and yes, demonstrate. Attacking workers is petty verbalism, and is as constructive as, uh, voting for a president. Politicians take the loot, we point fingers, get off it, please.
----a spitter

[absolutezero]

well said davin

A question to those who bellyache about "illegals", have you forgotten
how the land you call california and to a greater extent north america was
pillaged, plundered, stolen and cultures destroyed (no, tribal gaming doesnt count)? Maybe we should get the f$%! out. Fair is fair

the free markets a b***h, and all workers suffer becuase of it, across borders. Whats problematic is not defining the situation from its root, but rather from its logical consequences. Spitting, speaking spanish, marching, working (all terrible sins) are mere childs play compared to IMF impositions, NAFTA, Apache helicopters, S**T wages, environmental degradation, sweatshops, vigilantes, sell-out politicians, and torture. And dont think Cali got to being the 5th largest economy in the world, with agriculture its largest industry, without this labor force (90% being undocumented). Dont fool yourselves. "They" take jobs while we outsource? Very peculiar. "They" take services, while we fund illegal wars? Hmmm. Dont fake the funk, the developement of one can only come at the underdevelopement of the other, thats the ball game, and heads of state (again, across borders) are compliant. Put the system on trial, and yes, demonstrate. Attacking workers is petty verbalism, and is as constructive as, uh, voting for a president. Politicians take the loot, we point fingers, get off it, please.
----a spitter

[tomcat]

[quote=Larissad;29175]

>>> Another woman works for Amy's Kitchen, the same Amy's Kitchen who sells organic frozen prepared foods in Whole Foods and Trader Joe's. The conditions she is forced to work under have caused her numerous injuries. She is forced to work long hours without being paid overtime. She has no medical benefits. <<<

If this is true, it should be reported to the labor board. Every employer is required to provide workers comp insurance so that work related injuries can be treated at no cost to the employee. There are also strict rules on how many hours a person can work, usually 8 or 10 per day or 40 per week, before they MUST be paid overtime wages.
Unfortunately, regular medical benefits are not required to be provided by an employer in this country...YET.

>>> Our government created the root problem, not even touching on the fact that they stole California from Mexico to begin with. <<<

Wait a minute, didn't Spain take what is now Mexico from the native people and then came up and took what is now California from the native people and then the US Gov came and took it from them? Hummm, Well, don't worry, someone will come and take it from us one of these days and then someday someone else will come and take it from them. It may not be right, but It's human nature.

I do believe that our government has created the problem of illegal immigration in collusion with big business to a create cheap labor pool.

People from other countries want to come here to work... they want to feed their families and get ahead. Some want to become citizens and stay here, but most want to go back home.
What we need is a well thought out and fair guest worker program. We need to pay them a good wage and provide decent living facilities while they are here and they need to leave when they are finished. Agribusiness will have to pass the extra costs on to the customer, and WE must be willing to pay the price if we want the workers treated better.
For those that want to become citizens, they must follow the path that is set up for that. Yes, it's a hassle, it takes time and it needs improvement, but we can't just let everyone and anyone flood in. We need to control our borders! In my humble opinion.

Tom S.

[Tars]

Wait a minute, didn't Spain take what is now Mexico from the native people and then came up and took what is now California from the native people and then the US Gov came and took it from them?

I believe those "native" Californians you refer to actually came from somewhere in Asia. You didn't mention the Russians either. They were here around the same time as the Spaniards. Perhaps we should be asking their permission to spit on the sidewalks!

I'm thinking that in a hundred years, if anyone studies "ancient" history enough to get into the "immigrant" debacle of this era, they'll just have a good laugh over how quaint and provencial it all was.

Tars

[nurturetruth]

I couldn't agree with you more , Tom cat!!! it is all a bit of a set up...

At any rate, my first love was hispanic, he was legal.. so that was good ! And he did NOT spit on the sidewalk!!! He was one of the kindest person I have known and I enjoyed the latino culture immensly! And of course America had already taken the land away from Mexico... so all was good!

but seriously though... this whole illegal immigration topic goes deeper than deep!!
Since this thread opened, I have been really feeling myself out on the whole subject matter along with doing a bit of re-search. ((Thank you Helen Scott!)

Glad I did my research...cause now I too feel more Americans need to do their research ! There are SOO many factors involved with this serious tragic subject matter of illegal immigration .......cheap labor both financially benefits as well as takes away jobs from the poor & middle class americans . And really benefits the rich....

Michael Lindis a senior fellow at the New America Foundation , and whom has been in journalism for most of the past 2 decades. He states that , "most journalists, most editors, most tv producers.... are employers of immigrant labor. The top 5-10% of the United States have an entire lifestyle that depends on cheap labor. https://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A402_0_2_0_C/ (but at least...all the good wine comes from Sonoma county!! )

I also hold compassion for the illegal immigrant..who chooses to leave his family behind and to be separated from them. It must not be an easy path... they come here to work so their families in Mexico can live. In Mexico, they are only paid $4.50 a day. So I can definitely see how working in America would be very tempting and taunting. Can't say I wouldn't be tempted to cross over.......
It is true, that south of the border is being ran by a corrupt and ineffective government due to President Vicente Fox, who seems to have no apparent incentive to control the flow of drugs being shipped from Mexico into the United States and every incentive to continue the exportation of illegal aliens into this country. "This year, in fact, remittances back to Mexico from the estimated 20 million Mexican citizens living in the United States, most of them illegally, surpassed oil as Mexico's No. 1 source of foreign revenue!!!".

There should be some Green card / Work Program system set up..so it benefits all. I thought there used to be a program like this prior to Bush...?? If not, there definitely needs to be a reasonable solution for the immigrants to make a little extra money to send home to family but yet NOT be able to apply for Social Security or Medicare benefits..unless they apply for citizenship. (our country alone..is in so much debt...that we already are having problems with medicare funding, social security)

However, I am a supporter of a "Health Care for ALL workers in America regardless of status" to be set up in our nation...like they already have in Europe.........

I think this whole country should have a vigorous open debate on illegal immigration in this country! And GLAD it IS! ((I wonder if the Republicans will want to grant amnesty in order to "get votes?" ))
Estimates of illegal aliens in this country range from 12 million to 20 million people. Why doesn't our government know how many there are?

Shouldn't this Congress and this president at least recognize that the industries in which illegal aliens are employed in the greatest percentages also are suffering the largest wage declines? And shouldn't there be an economic impact statement researched and delivered to this Congress, this president and the rest of us before any legislation granting amnesty is even considered?

By the way.. illegal immigrants are humans too. with feelings, emotions, and needs. Just like the rest of us. If anyone is to perpetuate this crazed problem of illegal immigration .... it will be our government and the mexican gov't...for political reasons.....
I enjoy appreciating all human beings. regardless of what they are or are not.
but on the political , economic, already spread thin social security standpoint... we as Americans...really need to be alert with the subject matter!

of course.. if we were really citizens of America and wanting to really take back our country... we need to look at other BIGGER PICTURES ...like looking at our current administration .

whew! there. nurtured my truth ( or perspective of the moment)

Happy Cinco De Mayo!!

"I do believe that our government has created the problem of illegal immigration in collusion with big business to a create cheap labor pool.

People from other countries want to come here to work... they want to feed their families and get ahead. Some want to become citizens and stay here, but most want to go back home.
What we need is a well thought out and fair guest worker program. We need to pay them a good wage and provide decent living facilities while they are here and they need to leave when they are finished. Agribusiness will have to pass the extra costs on to the customer, and WE must be willing to pay the price if we want the workers treated better.
For those that want to become citizens, they must follow the path that is set up for that. Yes, it's a hassle, it takes time and it needs improvement, but we can't just let everyone and anyone flood in. We need to control our borders! In my humble opinion.

Tom S.

[babaruss]

"Another woman works for Amy's Kitchen, the same Amy's Kitchen who sells organic frozen prepared foods in WholeFoods and Trader Joe's. The conditions she is forced to work under have caused her numerous injuries. She is forced to work long hours without being paid overtime. She has no medical benefits."

I am going to have to take issue with you on this bit on info.
Two of my housemates work for Amy's Kitchen...They put in long long hours there because there is no stopping once a processing run is underway.
They are both paid overtime.
Regular employess have excellent benefits, but Temp Agency empolees receive no benefits.
There are no illegals working at Amy's kitchen.. unless the are using false i.d.
Everyone is screened (whether they come through a temp agency, or are hired outright).
Amy's Kitchen is a very ethical employer (and no, I'm not on their payroll).
Babaruss

[helenscott08]

The last reply was the most thought out and best I have seen. She got closer to the point I was trying to make.

What I was trying to point out is that (1) There are PROBABLY THOUSANDS of people all over the world WHO WANT TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES, and ELSEWHERE. HOWEVER, they are and have been doing it the PROPER WAY. THAT IS, they fill out necessary forms, take all other actions the USA government asks AND they WAIT THEIR TURN to come to the states.

Once here, they USUALLY begin to work diligently at learning the language, and the laws of the COUNTRY, and area they reside in.

At this writing, I am wondering why the IMMIGRANTS who CAME HERE LEGALLY are not standing up and opposing allowing people to become citizens just because they managed to get here ILLEGALLY.

I STRESS I am NOT ANTI-MEXICAN. I AM ANTI-ILLEGAL MEXICAN or any other nationality who are here illegally. Another very important reason why there are rules for allowing people to come here is to KEEP OUT THE CRIMMINALS and People with contagious diseases. This is for the protection of one and all. Not just a select group of residents. It benefits everyone here from anywhere in the world.

Yes, creating a VISITING/WORKING package for so many weeks or months, and then home to their own country, is something I thought was already in place. Don't they still have the VISITORS PASSPORTS which allow people who have applied to come here for a specified period of time?

If I had more time I would write more but have to leave it here.

I say again, all I was trying to do was to find out why both sides weren't active. Many have mentioned the low wages here and there. Well, if you take a job at those wages and don't like it, do something such as attend a night class or weekend class learning the language, and/or a skill that will enable you to move up in the world. The jobs people are talking about being so low wages I think were initially taken by students working part time to pay for some of the books, etc., and by retired persons who needed to supplement their small pensions and/or social security benefits. I have always believed these were jobs that were NEVER INTENDED to be FULL TIME jobs to provide for a family.

Back in the days when I was much younger and working, there were times when for one reason or another I worked at temporary agencies, or as a self employed contractor (making me responsible for paying taxes). I did not get any benefits but knew that going in and knew I would be able to find in time a more suitable situation. And, kept trying do that until I was successful in finding something I liked better.



helen scott

[Tars]

I AM ANTI-ILLEGAL MEXICAN or any other nationality who are here illegally.

Please do yourself, and everyone else a favor, and

put pressure on all representatives in Washington,

telling them they have to fix the "immigration" mess, so foreign workers can come here, work and pay taxes on what they earn here, then go back home, which is what they want to do. Focus your anger at the knuckleheads in Washingto, NOT at the people who are trying to make a liveable life for themselves.

Yes, creating a VISITING/WORKING package for so many weeks or months, and then home to their own country, is something I thought was already in place. Don't they still have the VISITORS PASSPORTS which allow people who have applied to come here for a specified period of time?

I tried to help a Mexican friend out. He is in Mexico, and wants to come and work for me. I explored the process for getting him a work visa. This was in 2006. I was told that they are currently processing applications from 2000!

The problem isn't the foreign workers it's our...for lack of a better term..."government".

By the way, I haven't heard of even a single latino bringing any disease here stronger than a cold. That just sounds like paranoid fear of them furiners to me. Whoever told you that was either grossly mis-informed for whatever reason, or lying to you with some political agenda of their own.

Tars

[tomcat]

I thought you might all want to read the reply I recieved from Amy's Kitchen when I questioned them RE: some of these acusations.
Tom S.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another woman works for Amy's Kitchen, the same Amy's Kitchen who sells organic frozen prepared foods in WholeFoods and Trader Joe's. The conditions she is forced to work under have caused her numerous injuries. She is forced to work long hours without being paid overtime. She has no medical benefits.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Hello Tom,

Thank you for the concerns you have expressed in your email dated May
5,
2007. We feel it is important to let you know that your source of
information is not factual. Amy's Kitchen, Inc. complies with all
overtime laws in each of the states in which we operate. We have a
complete safety program and of course provide all of our employees with
Workers Compensation Insurance. In addition, each employee who has
been
employed by the company for three months is eligible to participate in
our health benefit program which includes medical, dental, vision and
life insurance.

If you would like to discuss this further, you can contact our Director
of Human Resources, Cindy Gillespie at (707) 568-4574.

Best regards,


Carol Tamagni
Customer Relations

[Sabrina]

Just my two cents on Amy's Kitchen. I used to always love there food, as a great quick organic alternative. But I hesitate with the work conditions. My daughter and several of her friends, who are not immigrants, but are young people trying to get their act together, have all tried working there. The way you get hired by Amy's Kitchen is through a temp agency. They have only 8 hour shifts that run 24 hours around the clock. My daughter said it smelled horrible inside, she had to work from 10 - 3 Am as a starting worker. You got $10 per hour and the supervisor to train her did not speak good enough English for her to understand what they actually really wanted her to do. Among her friends and even in the back of her mind she considers it a place you can quickly get hired with no questions asked and make a quick buck ($10 per hour). But it's very hard work, (i.e. long hours, not quite sure what you're doing).

On another note, the condition of this country could turn many of us Americans into refugees fleeing to another country. Just watch and read between the lines in the news. The continued cutbacks on the poor and increase on the prison systems (probably to house us backers of the constitution), the cutbacks on protecting the environment, and increases continually to the military, the whole way the Katrina disaster was handled, including using troops to kick people out of their homes as a kind of homeland security prep training, military abroad has just had their links to the world cut off (myspace, youtube, and other networks), in order to implement more brain washing for the American terrorist cartel to succeed in it's insane waste of dollars for carnage. In May 2008 they want the new federal ID that will include fingerprints or iris scans, if we allow it. They want to force vaccinations that have not fully been tested by the FDA. Many immigrants still believe in the America with it's constitutional rights, and that the American people will never allow a police state. They will rise up to fight. I was shocked at how low the turn out was for the last emergency protest against the war in Iraq that happened a week or two ago in Santa Rosa, right after the large immigration protest. People are burned out. Habeas Corpus is gone, the government knows everything we do if they want (medical records, library records, internet and telephone spying, etc. etc.). They can put us in jail at anytime with no reason, if they want. They can search our cars or houses with no warrants if they want. If you don't register with the selective services when you turn 18 you may be subject to a $10,000 fine! The Dollar is going down down down, and the Gold is where? Who is the Federal reserve? And they keep printin' them paper bills.

Anyway, someone wondered at one point on this or another similar thread, here on Wacco, "why don't the Mexicans try to fight harder to make their government a better place to live?" Maybe for the same reason we are letting our country go to pot (not about immigration, but about all our lost freedoms and constitutional rights)? Why do we allow our president and congress and governor to do these things I mention above that continue to erode our original American values of liberty and freedom for all with a strong constitution of rights? Because we are being worn down. For the past 8 years and more we've been protesting and protesting and writing our congress, etc. etc. and it seems to get no where. We've finally got a democratic senate and congress now, but for what? No one is listening to the masses. And, I really don't want to live on the moon. But, maybe I want to give up and flee somewhere before it gets worse. Most people in Nazi Germany did not see it coming. Some did, and left early enough. Some Americans already see it coming and have left. Mexico is quite corrupt, as has been described by the person who wrote earlier who works as a volunteer for the homemakers organization. The US still seems better than there because of the facade it portrays. But for how long will we allow this nation to continue to fall into complete corrupt chaos? The facade of America is still attracting other nations, but the inner workings are a dark mass of turmoil and confusion; it's like that science fiction movie (the first one) The Matrix, where everyone is really dreaming in a pod where their energy is being sucked by the government, but the pill they take that makes them dream has them believing they are operating in a normal world. We need to wake up, but the constant blood and violence and other brick walls are numbing us into a deeper slumber in front of primetime TV. At least the Mexicans and other immigrants, more prevalent in other areas, are taking some action.

Now, that was a rant. Please don't challenge me on dates and exact quotes for where I got my info. I have no time to go back into deep research. I read the paper everyday, and listen to Democracy Now, and read from Reuters on line. If anyone challanges, I'll let the historians and more equipt political activists on board help me out with the exactos.

I thought you might all want to read the reply I received from Amy's Kitchen when I questioned them RE: some of these acusations.
Tom S.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Mark Owens]

Unreal, Icant believe what I am reading, close minded white idealiist, uncompassionate and uneduacated as to the trueth of reality. I cant believe that you have the time or take the time to write such trash. I am a Native American. I hopefully dont need to educate waccovians on the holacost of this country. 98-115 million Native people died here by 1905. Were your ansestors legal I doubt it. Mexican and other Imagrants come here for survival. The American is the person that just got off the boat or just climbes out of the river. When you are a caucaziod every thing is great untill your beleifs are challanged or untill (in your case someone spits on the side walk) what about your governments millitary killing elderly and children with thier boots to save bullets?

I debated with myself as to whether I wanted to do this posting or not. I know it may create hard feelings by some but this is something I feel I must do or I will have only myself to blame for any problems arising if the illegal immigrants are allowed to stay for any amount of time.

I am considered a SENIOR. During my life I have met people from all over the world. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY great. RIGHT NOW, there are probably thousands of people from countries AROUND THE WORLD who have gone through LEGAL PROCEEDINGS to come to this country. In most cases, there are fairly long waiting periods. I don't know if this is still true or not but I believe that it was required of the prospective immigrant to have an AMERICAN SPONSOR and a job awaiting them when they arrived in the USA. As I said, I am not sur if this is true or how long that condition was a factor in coming to the USA.

Most of the people who came over until the Mexicans began coming in such droves ILLEGALLY, worked just as hard as any Mexican, and perhaps harder. They also worked to learn the language AND WAYS, AND LAWS of the US.

The Mexicans I see today don't seem to have any desire to do this. They take their children to stores, all types, and NEVER TEACH THEIR CHILDREN to speak in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. I have seen them spit on the sidewalks and streets.

The point I am trying to make is THAT IT IS UNFAIR to allow people of any country to come over here illegally and THEN BE ALLOWED to become a citizen just because they are already here. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE who applied legally years ago and are still waiting???

And, again, I am not an authority on such matters but it was always my understanding that the country tried to allow a balance of immigrants from each country so all countries would be treated fairly and we would NOT BE OVERWHELMED with immigrants from one country.

I know a lot of people and honestly have only met one person who is for having the illegal immigrants into this country as citizens...I could go on and on about the costs to the country but it has been pointed out in so many other avenues I don't think I need to do so here. If you read or listen to the radio or TV at all, you have heard all the reasons why I and many, many others feel as I do.

AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I AM WONDERING THIS: where in the world are the people who feel as I do. The media does not do much publicizing about this factor of the population at all. Why???

JUST to set the record straight. I am NOT AGAINST LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO. ONLY THOSE WHO COME OVER HERE IGNORING ALL THE COUNTRIES RULES.

AND FINALLY, WHY, if they can get up so much steam to DEMONSTRATE AND PARADE here in the US for their SO-CALLED RIGHTS, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and work there to make things better so they would not have to leave the country??????

helen scott

[Lorrie]

Cheap Tomatoes

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent.

From a California school teacher - - -

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students are of average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year, even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" (whores), and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about being "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage
Consumers don't want expensive produce
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" (a government check) of up to $3,200 free. (Our Tax Dollars at work.)

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps.
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI.
Once qualified for SSI, they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at taxpayer's expense.
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowner's insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits. Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up, people!

[Tars]

Lorrie -

It's so sad whenever I see Americans (well...relatively recent Americans), usually primarily of Caucasian extraction, equate poor ignorant people of color with Illegal Immigrant Mexicans. It's the same effect as when a televised demonstration by Latinos is lambasted as "MEXICANS DEMONSTRATING IN THE U.S.". Usually the lambasters don't take into account at all that the huge majority of those "Mexicans" demonstrating, are U.S. Citizens. Why then, don't the racial lambasters complain about the stinking drunken Irish or sneaky disease-ridden Danes whenever they see a bunch of white people demonstrating against something?

[Sabrina]

Here I go, taking more time from work. But somehow this issue moves me. Cheap tomatoes or rotten grapes? Rotten Pears? If anyones been keeping up with the news about the fruits that migrant workers pick, I believe last summer/ fall there was a huge amount that went to the dump instead of our tables because there were no people to work distributing / picking the little morsels. There was a picture in the PD of mounds of rotting pears in Lake county just a couple weeks ago. More than half of my car sales business is supported by immigrants and many many are illegal. If it weren't for them buying cars from us we would probably have lost our house by now. By law we can sell to anyone whether they have a drivers license or not. These people who buy from me often would love to have a drivers license and to obtain insurance but it is not possible. Many of them are going home to Mexico, sometimes back and forth. They are often looking for cars they can legally take back to Mexico and keep their which are only a few (they must be 1997 or older, plus have a vin # that starts with a number) The kids in that screaming article by the teacher in LA that Lorrie sent has some truth in it, i.e. people who take advantage of living off the system as much as possible, but that does not apply strictly to immigrants. Infact many immigrants refuse and take pride in not living off the system. I know plenty of Americans who utilize that system to their advantages and it seems often very wasteful. But why are we fighting over the minimal amounts spent on school lunches and healthcare when it's being cut every day to pay for ridiculous things like military bases being built abroad and huge contracts for amunition / bomb development. I used to get my son free school lunches because I could, but I stopped because the food, even up here in Sonoma county is such CRAP. I said, let the starving have it. I won't even buy them if I can help it. We should be more mad at the conglomerate corporations that win our tax dollars for serving that crap up in our schools...i.e. Tacobell and KFC types, Cocacola corp. etc. From what I've heard, most illegal workers pay taxes , can never get unemployment back, or claim disability, etc. because of their lack of a true SS# etc. The money is still taken out of the check.

Cheap Tomatoes

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent.

From a California school teacher - - -
...