Zero Waste

[Valley Oak]

We had a long phone conversation with our garbage company today and they told us that because we live in an unincorporated part of the county that SR City rules do not apply to us and that we are not obligated to pay for any garbage service and, therefore, not have any service.

My wife and I talked seriously about eliminating any garbage service because we generate very little garbage. We only have to take out the can once a month! We don't want to pay almost $400 a year in a garbage service that we hardly need.

I know that there is a fledgling "Zero Waste" movement out there. Our question is how can we dispose of the small amount of garbage that we have? Any ideas? What do you do?

Thank you, Edward

[podfish]

...
My wife and I talked seriously about eliminating any garbage service because we generate very little garbage. We only have to take out the can once a month! We don't want to pay almost $400 a year in a garbage service that we hardly need.

...Our question is how can we dispose of the small amount of garbage that we have? Any ideas? What do you do?

for years we went to the dump as a regular chore. It was kinda fun, having little kids especially, to back up to the cliff and throw your stuff over the edge. Once a guy pushed off a 20' plus sailboat along with the household garbage. But it's less fun now that you dump your stuff on a cement floor, and now that recycle-town has been made less funky. I miss the tower of TVs.

Still, it's a pretty simple errand. Plus you drive by the big dumpsters where you can chunk in metal or wood recyclables. If you have enough cans to keep a month or two's worth of garbage, and a truck capable of doing the dump run, it's a good solution.

[rossmen]

You are a lucky duck ed. Think of garbage as an indicator of the civilization you live in arc of influence, the more the better, thats what excavation shows. To say no, i demonstrate a saner trend, and now to know you have choice, what a beautiful moment. Take it to safeway.

I on the other foot have plenty of landmates who want a bigger can. So with the owner/lord position i keep the can smaller, to plenty of complaint.

...My wife and I talked seriously about eliminating any garbage service because we generate very little garbage. We only have to take out the can once a month! We don't want to pay almost $400 a year in a garbage service that we hardly need.

I know that there is a fledgling "Zero Waste" movement out there. Our question is how can we dispose of the small amount of garbage that we have? Any ideas? What do you do?

[BloomMarig]

? The 20 gal can is only $132 a year...

...We don't want to pay almost $400 a year in a garbage service that we hardly need....

[kane]

for years we went to the dump as a regular chore. It was kinda fun, ...

Ah, the dump when it really was a 'dump', the good 'ol days.
Thanks Podfish.

Couldn't sleep through the wind, so waxing nostalgic over garbage on Wacco, what a life!

Fond memories as you say; climbing the piles of awesomeness at the old Roblar Rd dump in the early '60's, where we gleaned gigantic steel chicken cages, bikes, old radios and TV'S to tear apart. Amazing that we 5 & 8 year olds could scramble freely over the 15' tall piles of sharp metals and glass, wire, whiskey bottles, Campbell's soup cans, ah, sweet memories of re-use and re-purposing.
Editorial note: Children are too insulated these days.

I remember one time my dad got his hand or shirt-sleeve caught on our old thick steel garbage can out at the Occidental dump, and himself went over the edge, and it being a real climb back up with that can. Best damn view in the County though!

I've resisted garbage 'service' for a long time, but my wife insisted so we're on the garbage grid now. Thankfully, we only have to cart the bins out every third week, as our waste stream is moderate, though we still must pay for weekly pickup; hmm, could this be a scam? Garbage sharing anyone? Is there an App for that?

Thinking zero waste, and our 'moderate' trash output; that stuff that gets whittled-down to trash is mostly plastic, which will be here long after I'm dust. We must deal with our plasti-philia, really. Are you listening Trader Joe? where nearly everything is in plastic. When we were going there regularly, our plastic trash doubled, at least.
Gotta say it, really hate the transformation of the roadside with the bins that linger for two, three or more days, and now we end-up dodging the potholes only to try and miss the garbage bin; between the holes, the bins and the deer, it's a wonder we ever make it in to town.

If one has room for 55 G drums, they can hold a lot until you've a truckload; I usually went 2 times a year using this method.

Another idea, if you don't generate much trash, is to use a trash compactor to reduce the trash-footprint, allowing infrequent trips to the transfer station.I suppose you've got the rodent attraction issue then, but then that's what cats are for, non?

I think it's healthy to have to take your own waste to the dump so as to have a clue as to what the process is, rather than it just going 'away'. Kinda keeps one honest about their consumption.
All children should go to the dump at least once, and probably to the ultimate destination, wherever that is now, Solano County?

A final, practical note. The garbage service provider offers, in some communities, a free small dumpster service one or more times a year, mixed waste with some limitations, for yard cleanups, moving etc. I know it's available in Santa Rosa, but not around Freestone at least.
Worth calling them.

Over and Out
Kane-San

[rossmen]

Thats a seb city rate, where i live, just outside the limits, its $336/yr for 20 gal weekly dump. Quite a difference, since the same truck weaves in and out on its run. But then city dwellers get to vote twice, and sups got a lot on their plate.

? The 20 gal can is only $132 a year...

[Valley Oak]

-
I found this website and vid, below. Here is a short blog from the founder:
------------------



I propose a simple guideline, my 5R’s:

1. Refuse
2. Reduce
3. Reuse
4. Recycle
5. Rot

(and only in that order).

Website: Zero Waste Home:

Hi there and thanks for visiting my blog! My name is Bea Johnson, native of France and currently living in Mill Valley, California. Since adopting the Zero Waste lifestyle in 2008, my life and that of my family have changed for the better. We not only feel happier, but we also lead more meaningful lives based on experiences instead of stuff.

My family’s trash for the year 2016. Photo credit Cristovão@Exposed-Image

This blog and my bestselling book, Zero Waste Home (14 languages), have launched a global movement, inspiring thousands of people throughout the world to live simply and take a stance against needless waste.

Are you ready to join in?

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

While I think the "zero waste" movement can make us think about our choices and our daily impacts... I also think it's a lot of horse puckey.

Our homes and all it's compenets. Our clothes. Our cars. Everything in our lives- no matter how durable or eco-conscious are, like us, heading towards their end of life.

And let's be honest- there is very little in our lives that is actually recyclable. We can tell ourselves we are doing good by recycling papers, plastics, etc...but the reality is far different. Outside our aluminum and copper there is pretty much nothing we can recycle that doesen't use more water/energy/ and/or fossil fuels to recycle, or cause other serious problems (google: nurdles )

Then let's add in the wastes for those of us in rural areas having to haul our recylables and minimal garbage to the facilities to deal with them- which is often a far greater impact then the haulers who are already passing right by us.

We can donate or sell our used clothes, electronics, vehicles or etc before they are ready for the trash heap- but we are just pushing that waste off for a small time onto someone else so we feel better.

I'll say Sonoma County has THE WORST recycling of anywhere (other then Hawaii) that I've lived in the west. Curbside is mixed- resulting in a very low recovery rate due to contamination. At the recyling yards it's not much better- the focus is on CRV and metals. And the bins for many of the other lower value recyclables are often contaminated with all sorts of s**t. In WA and OR the recylcing centers were amazing clean and efficient- each and every class of recyclable was seperated and people respected this- insuring both top dollar for the recycler- and that the bins weren't just dumped in the landfill because it was cheaper then cleaning it to get a price that was worth it.

And I'm sorry- but the waste you produce- no matter how coscious you are, does not fit in in even a trash can for a year. Maybe you're pushing that waste off on others- ignoring the realities of your house- letting your landlord or contractors deal with that waste. Your car- or your bike- letting your mechanic deal with that waste. "donating" your clothes, electronics, etc- to let someone else deal with the last 10% of life so you can claim no waste. "Recycling" the countless products that aren't actually recyclable in our region (styrofoam anyone? Film plastics anyone?) ...

Maybe better then this whole self congraluatory "zero waste" fad... maybe we should be focusing on actually understanding what can be recycled- and what can be recyled for a net benefit. Pushing for laws, such as in much of europe- that require most appliances and vehicles to be 90%+ recyleable (and mandating this actually happens). Look to cities like Seattle and Portland for how we can actually have a better then 50% rate of recyling our recylables. And have a conversation that just because something can be "recycled" does not mean it is a net benefit to our world.

Just made me think of many months ago...a friday in Sebastopol when the old Tea Partier types where out in front of the old bank (now the "wealth management" company. ). I was wearing an old, threadbare "Patagonia" t-shirt, and he made a comment- "Patagonia... I can't afford Patagonia". And I passed on by but then thought about this. And how I can't afford a company not like patagonia (caveat- 90% of my Patagonia gear is purchased during their end of season 50% off sales) . A company that uses organic natural fibers and synthetics made from recyclables. That supports fair trade and 1% for the planet. That takes back almost everything they sell for recycling. That has invested so heavily in alternative energy they now (like Apple) have a seperate divison that develops and sells alternative energy.


Sorry- not trying to be an ******, but I think the conversation needs to be more about understanding our footprint- not just some supposed "zero waste" goal where we don't comprehend the waste and pollution we are actually responsible for.

[ChefJayTay]

I don't understand people who want to play games with their waste.
If you want to compost for your garden, or have some other specific intention that's one thing.
To me... Recycling is just an excuse for trash companies not doing their job. They get paid to process it, they get paid for the resulting recycled materials they sorted out. Why am I doing their work that I'm paying for?
Enjoy your piles of "not trash" around the home as you process it for them.
Give me one bin.

[podfish]

I've resisted garbage 'service' for a long time, but my wife insisted so we're on the garbage grid now. Thankfully, we only have to cart the bins out every third week, as our waste stream is moderate, though we still must pay for weekly pickup; hmm, could this be a scam? Garbage sharing anyone? Is there an App for that?

that's an awesome idea. I don't know that there's quite enough money involved to focus people's attention enough to travel with garbage to their partner, but it makes sense for neighbors to talk about it. Of course we all know our neighbors, right, so we wouldn't need an app? or is that another nostalgic memory?

[tommy]

ChefJayTay,
The economics of recycling & trash collection are complex. They are subject to the limitations & problems of having a private company (w a contract w local govt) remove them, monitored by the local government. It is not simplistic as the implications of your question "Why am I doing their work that I'm paying for?"

I don't know much about this area, but it is my understanding that in Santa Rosa & possibly Sonoma County:

• trash removal rates are expected to double when a new contract goes into effect next year
• waste haulers will get well deserved raises from their current $12-14/hr, w representation by the Teamsters Union
• recycling will be improved
• safety will be improved

Trash hauling is a disgusting job, that few are willing to take on. Those few should be paid a living wage w benefits, which will mean increases in rates.

I don't understand people who want to play games with their waste....

[SRB]

We have a stack of four mesh bins in the kitchen, and all our recyclables go there. Cleaned and non-smelly. A tiny amount goes in the fire, including bones. Food waste in the compost bin outside. Meat scraps go in the dog. I also dissolved a giant stack of many years worth of styrofoam food trays in acetone and reduced them to a small hunk of plastic. That was fun. Drive to recycling once a month or so. Plastic bags to Pacific Market after reusing them as much as possible. Corks to BevMo. It's worked well for 25 years. No collection costs.

[ChefJayTay]

Actually... it's much simpler than that.

People just don't like change and wanna think they deserve something because there's a system in place. Economics is just an excuse. We have the abilities to sort and process just about everything (including fungus & bacteria that will break down plastics)

The problem is government getting in the way of a properly competitive market.

Edit: If we actually had choices for removal, many may realize how much time and effort they waste on something that returns them little to no benefit (for them or nature).

ChefJayTay,
The economics of recycling & trash collection are complex. They are subject to the limitations & problems of having a private company (w a contract w local govt) remove them, monitored by the local government. It is not simplistic as the implications of your question "Why am I doing their work that I'm paying for?"
........

[podfish]

...
The problem is government getting in the way of a properly competitive market. ...

boy, that's not a very sonoma-county position to take! anyway, in this case, it's not defensible. The government (or, laws against the practice to be specific) is the only thing keeping me from throwing garbage over the fence or out the window of my car. Broken appliances are possibly worth recycling, but for me probably it's not enough money to prevent me from just dumping it off the side of the road. Actually, the fun of watching it fall from the bridge into the river probably has higher economic value than any recycling value. But sure, without government getting in the way, someone would be getting filthy rich processing all those little plastic bags that produce comes in!

[tommy]

ChefJayTay,

Your stm "Economics is just an excuse" is a rather simplistic platitude.

I found this definition of "economics":

The theories, principles, and models that deal with how the market process works. It attempts to explain how wealth is created and distributed in communities, how people allocate resources that are scarce and have many alternative uses, and other such matters that arise in dealing with human wants and their satisfaction

Read more: https://www.businessdictionary.com/d...economics.html

There are textbooks written on "Zero Waste". I'd imagine some of the discussion & analysis would include the costs of natural resources such as water, clean air, trash removal, recycling & reuse, govt vs private efforts, education, etc.

I'm about to return from a tiny island is S Thailand, called Ko Tao, known for diving, which is about 2 x 6 miles. No one lived on the island until 1947. Now there are many resorts & guest houses. There is no functioning govt on the island - only unrestrained human greed, & private industry happy to exploit it.

All water is imported to the island. All trash is removed by boat. Trash, discarded water bottles, & debris are everywhere, except on the beaches of pricey clean resorts. At the boat dock, trapped sea water is filthy, containing many plastic bottles, plastic bags, cardboard, all kinds of crap. It's totally unsustainable, yet resorts are still being built.

This puts in stark relief, the excesses of human nature, & the complexity of the problems we face. Government is not the problem. Realistic solutions involve the government and private industry … to keep our species from suffocating in our own waste. A "properly competitive market" is a textbook ideal. The notion fails to respond to:

- a recycling market that has collapsed due to too much supply of recycling materials, & too little demand for them
- air pollution from CO2, & the many efforts of private industry to block a carbon tax
- how easy & inexpensive it is to pollute … & how costly & difficult it is to clean up the pollution

It's in places like this, that the government must step in, as the problem solver of last resort …where private industry cannot alone solve these runaway problems.

Actually... it's much simpler than that.

People just don't like change and wanna think they deserve something because there's a system in place. Economics is just an excuse. We have the abilities to sort and process just about everything (including fungus & bacteria that will break down plastics)

The problem is government getting in the way of a properly competitive market.

Edit: If we actually had choices for removal, many may realize how much time and effort they waste on something that returns them little to no benefit (for them or nature).

[ChefJayTay]

I said Government was in the way, not that it should be gone.
Yes there is a service required to maintain a general cleanliness. However...
Why are they dictating who my service provider is (which dictates my level and quality of service)?
I can understand limiting locations to process & handle it.

[ChefJayTay]

Again, I didn't say get rid of government.
As to it being a sonoma county position... I'm unsure how that's up for you to determine.
The resale value of your appliances has more to do with America's disdain for the service industries than how you dispose of them.
I'm talking about stopping local government dictating who I give my trash to and in what form, and everyone responds like I'm an anarchist.

boy, that's not a very sonoma-county position to take! a....

[tommy]

I have not heard any practical solutions from you, to reach the goal of Zero Waste

Again, I didn't say get rid of government.
As to it being a sonoma county position... I'm unsure how that's up for you to determine.
The resale value of your appliances has more to do with America's disdain for the service industries than how you dispose of them.
I'm talking about stopping local government dictating who I give my trash to and in what form, and everyone responds like I'm an anarchist.

[ChefJayTay]

Hard to hear ideas that were typed.

I'm sorry that you don't understand that getting government to stop controlling the trash industry will lead to innovation and improvements in waste management...

I have not heard any practical solutions from you, to reach the goal of Zero Waste

[podfish]

Hard to hear ideas that were typed.

I'm sorry that you don't understand that getting government to stop controlling the trash industry will lead to innovation and improvements in waste management...

'will' is a strong statement. 'Might' is more appropriate. It's a pretty doctrinaire position to take - that when there's a downward curve in regulation there's an upward one in innovation. It's a multivariate surface if we're going to use that approach (yeah, I know, I introduced the approach of thinking of it as curves. It's still fun to think of it that way).

Maybe the current garbage-collection processes are being micromanaged to the point where creative solutions are impossible. But maybe it'd be as simple as having trash-collection firms running their 'innovative' ideas past the regulators first?? Might be worth a try in more industries than this one. It's not all Darwin out there - good ideas can evolve without head-to-head competition.

[Laguna Farm]

I would love to see a county-wide reuse program. So much garbage and recycling are generated from packaging. I imagine a reusable jar and bag service that delivers to the stores (think diaper service) where we can grab standardized jars and bags that we fill and return for a deposit. The service would wash and deliver for a fee that each business pays for with the savings from not having to buy the packaging. Take-out containers, bags, bulk jars, egg crates, milk bottles and more can be used, sterilized and reused. I see this working well with Straus milk, cloth diapers, and work linens. Less waste, more jobs, and a profitable business model.

[DorenaRode]

Thanks for the video link. I enjoyed it and it got me thinking more about how I can reduce. I don't have weekly pick up and don't need it. For a small size load the dump charges a minimum of $10. I could easily take a year to fill up my minivan on the waste me and my husband accumulate. I go to the "dump" more frequently to unload the recycling, which is free to drop off. The dump is on my way into town, so no extra fuel needed to get there.

Over the years (and living in Arizona) I got into the habit of shopping at places like Trader Joes. Lots of packaging! The video got me thinking about how to "refuse" that extra packaging by shopping at stores that do not package fresh veggies.

Now, I am thinking about taking our household "zero" waste by 2018. Not planning on being purest about it, but the idea is certainly stimulating some thought about what is essential. I like to be aware of what I am doing and the consequences of my actions.

-
I found this website and vid, below. Here is a short blog from the founder:
------------------



I propose a simple guideline, my 5R’s:

1. Refuse
2. Reduce
3. Reuse
4. Recycle
5. Rot

(and only in that order).

[Valley Oak]

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[ChefJayTay]

Thought this opinion piece from the NYT maybe worth reading...


The Reign of Recycling
By JOHN TIERNEY OCT. 3, 2015

IF you live in the United States, you probably do some form of recycling. It’s likely that you separate paper from plastic and glass and metal. You rinse the bottles and cans, and you might put food scraps in a container destined for a composting facility. As you sort everything into the right bins, you probably assume that recycling is helping your community and protecting the environment. But is it? Are you in fact wasting your time?

Continues here

[Valley Oak]

FemmeHead
empowering ladies, one cycle at a time

My Zero Waste Update: Over a Year Later
January 13, 2017 in minimalism, mind

I first started my transition to a more zero waste lifestyle over a year ago. And I’m still in the transition phase, with zero hard feelings against myself. No, I’m not perfect. No, I’m not 100% zero waste. But that’s OK. I’m working to educate myself, and to be aware. We go for so long without giving a second thought to our trash. I have overall become a more conscious consumer. I put A LOT of thought into what I purchase. I have a wish list for items I want to buy (clothes, electronics, etc.) But I wanted to share my biggest changes with you today...

Continues Here:

[Shandi]

About 10 years ago, I saw a Penn & Teller episode (spoof) on the realities of recycling, and how after all our efforts to rinse, separate and recycle, most of it gets dumped together for the landfill.

Another interesting observation from them, is something people might call a "conspiracy theory", which is the concept of recycling as a way to keep the masses engaged in feel good activity, and not focused on the "real issues"

I may try to locate that, so I can see it again. They showed videos of what they were talking about, so it was very convincing.

I've often thought about our use of water to rinse things out for recycling, especially during the drought when I was being extra aware of water use. Nut butter containers are especially challenging, and I didn't like the look of them, filled with water, on the kitchen counter, sometimes for days, then going into the dishwasher for a thorough cleaning before recycling.

So, I usually just put them in the trash nowadays, along with other things that take time and energy to prepare for recycling.

Recently read an article that China has been rejecting our recycling because it's too dirty. I thought that was an interesting development. It may have even been posted here on Wacco.

Thought this opinion piece from the NYT maybe worth reading...


The Reign of Recycling
By JOHN TIERNEY OCT. 3, 2015

... Are you in fact wasting your time?

Continues here

[podfish]

Another interesting observation from them, is something people might call a "conspiracy theory", which is the concept of recycling as a way to keep the masses engaged in feel good activity, and not focused on the "real issues"

I don't think it's a conspiracy (I never do, do I?) but it's right up there with other silly things our society does. It's possible it helps - and it would help if done right - but it's mostly a feel-good thing. Like TSA agents patting you down and removing your shoes. Like preventing Middle Eastern visitors from visiting the U.S. As opposed to enforcing traffic safety laws, or improving gun restrictions. Or that despite it being more dangerous to drive to the airport than it is to fly between cities, people fear flying more. We're generally really bad about intuitive cost/benefit analysis, and that surprisingly leads to social policies that implement the emotional, rather than factual, "solutions" to problems.

for waste reduction, the only real solution is to avoid creating it; the Zero-Waste movement explains this on their website quite well.

[Valley Oak]

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