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  1. TopTop #31
    IgorGold
    Guest

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    This underlines my general observation that inflating the value of property beyond what can be reasonably afforded by those willing to live in an area has the indirect result of undermining the very living value that attracted people in the first place. Look at a city like San Francisco that is no longer a viable place for middle class incomes to raise a family. It's attraction stemming from an arts and culture scene where artists can no longer afford to congregate. Communities are made by people and when those people can no longer afford to subsist there they move on and so does what made the community in the first place.

    This is what happens when all value is reduced to property values. What good is moving to an area with quaint local shops if they all have to shut down eventually because of the increasing commercial rent?


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay: View Post
    It's not just home rental...
    Look at the small businesses in the area. ....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-25-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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  3. TopTop #32
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Rents are just part...
    Department of health is raising my permit fees roughly 45% over the next 3 years.
    AB1871 increased farmers' market fees, more than tripling their cut, and (in my opinion) illegally charging my business fees for a department that doesn't oversee my operation.
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  5. TopTop #33
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by IgorGold: View Post
    This underlines my general observation that inflating the value of property beyond what can be reasonably afforded by those willing to live in an area has the indirect result of undermining the very living value that attracted people in the first place. Look at a city like San Francisco ...
    I think of Yogi Berra's quote "no-one goes there anymore -- it's too crowded!"

    clearly it's evolving into something. I haven't a clue what it'll be.
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  7. TopTop #34
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by IgorGold: View Post
    This underlines my general observation that inflating the value of property beyond what can be reasonably afforded by those willing to live in an area has the indirect result of undermining the very living value that attracted people in the first place. ...
    If this is so, which it might be, then the desirability of the area is reduced leading to lower rents. But I don't think that is what's going to happen.

    Some accommodation will be made to increase affordability. I expect it to be a major issue in the city council and supervisor races coming up. That might kick start jr. second units and/or other measures. There's also good ol' supply in demand. Higher rents should encourage more units to be supplied, either by construction, renting out rooms, trailers, etc. But no doubt rents will remain at painful levels for many people who wish to live here.
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  9. TopTop #35
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Some accommodation will be made to increase affordability....
    What really needs to happen is an increase of wages. People making a "good" wage, say $25/hr, after taxes might be able to afford a $1200-1500/mo residence. But lots of skilled workers are barely pulling down $15/hr and it takes 2 wage earners to get a place.

    The other factor is number of units. It's become too expensive to build, especially with the government trying to be the unwanted business partner of the builders. The fees and requirements to build are really quite high and serve to drive up costs for everyone.

    The third factor is population increase. If there isn't anything new being built and more people are entering the housing market then supply and demand becomes paramount.

    Rent control is not going to solve this, they tried that in Berkeley and SF. In Berkeley after rent control came in you could not rent a single family house. Then a class of subsidized renters who stayed put grew and the unbalanced market created an artificial demand for vacancies that actually increased rents as vacancies came on the market. Same in the City.
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  11. TopTop #36
    rukiddingme
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Spot on! IMO, the County and the City do not encourage businesses to come to our area with quality high paying jobs. The licenses and requirements for a business to open up is ridiculous. Yes, we have a low unemployment rate but when you dissect the jobs, the overwhelming jobs are in hospitality industries. While these jobs are great for young people just starting or college students, they are not able sustain a family with such a high cost of living and it's not just the rents. It's the water, utilities, sales tax etc..

    Developers pay a huge amount of fees just to put a shovel in the ground making it impossible to build any affordable housing.

    Having lived in this County for over 30 years, I can not imagine a more amazing place to be but the harsh reality is that not everyone can afford to live here and sometimes hard decisions need to be made. Current residents do not want growth and that is clearly evident by our meager 1% migration rate but they want affordable housing. The citizens will need to decide, What's it going to be, more housing so rents and home prices go down or limited population with high rents and high home prices? Can't have both

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    What really needs to happen is an increase of wages...

    The other factor is number of units. ...

    The third factor is population increase. ...

    Rent control is not going to solve this, ....
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  12. TopTop #37
    gypsey's Avatar
    gypsey
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Thanks Barry to you and everyone else who has been part of this important thread. What I noticed especially was: there was barely any rancor, people were reasoned and polite, appreciative (many "gratitudes") , lots told it like it was from their POV yet nobody went on a rant or skewered the "other side." Kudos to all for the level of civility maintained which has not always been true on Wacco and certainly in national politics.
    Thanks again,
    Gypsey
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  14. TopTop #38
    IgorGold
    Guest

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Actually the biggest all round employment opportunity is for caretakers as this is an aging population. Several voices raised here have mentioned that if they hadn't previously acquired property in Sebastopol that they couldn't afford to move here. That's the dilemma in a nutshell: Sebastopol can choose to accept the steady increase in the cost of living and accept that it's community will become less diverse as time passes, locals die off to be replaced by more and more affluence so that it become more like a northern Mill Valley. Or it can choose to invest in its own community by opening up to a less elitist cross section of society through lower income housing schemes and cost of living sensitive wages so that young people can actually afford to rent in the town they graduated high school from. Cohesive communities are often built on the cohesion of families. Real affluence isn't measure by the listed price of a house but by the richness of the community you live in. IMHO

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rukiddingme: View Post
    Spot on! IMO, the County and the City do not encourage businesses to come to our area with quality high paying jobs. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-25-2016 at 12:27 PM.
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  16. TopTop #39
    Diane Darling's Avatar
    Diane Darling
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    In response to Gypsey's question, I have another one: what is the status of the development across from Fircrest Market? Tombe Realty is handling renting/leasing, but I'm afraid to ask them if there are any HUD or other subsidized units there. Anybody?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by gypsey: View Post
    ...What I'd like to ask our WACCO audience who are homeowners is whether they can suspend their NIMBY feelings and get busy supporting affordable housing projects (subsidized, senior, and other)---and if so, are willing to push the issue with the Council and in the General Plan.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-25-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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  18. TopTop #40
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Economic studies have shown that people w rent controlled apts stay in them for many years. It becomes an increasingly valuable place the longer u live there, as market rents continue to climb. People forgo job opportunities that would require them to move. At a gross level, therefore, rent controlled apts do not have the normal turnover, & are not available for others. It's similar to how Airbnb adds to the shortage of places to rent. Those who don't have rent controlled apts are then competing for a smaller share of apts, thus rents go up.

    As older rent controlled apts lose value, bec of declining income, there is an economic incentive to tear them down & replace w new units. Again, increasing the cost of rents. Like any govt programm, rent control has unintended consequences.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-25-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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  20. TopTop #41
    rossmen
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    I truly wish we had more choice about how community evolves than Marin or orange county. But the world we live in, the way decisions about land use are made, limit possibility. The forces which push sebtown in the direction of a gentrified gerontocracy are established and persuasive, dominant. As a landowner who rents homes to people (I hate the term landlord since I hold that all royalty should either abdicate or be beheaded!), I can play on the margins of affordability, funkyness, creativity and community, but in the end the market rules. If I rent a home to someone way below market they are stuck, like rent control in sf, we both suffer. People hate hearing that!
    Last edited by Barry; 06-25-2016 at 12:29 PM.
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  21. TopTop #42
    rossmen
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    The current construction will be three stories, parking below, offices at the street, and apartments above. I don't know if any of the apartments are reserved as affordable, cris might have paid the inclusionary housing fees instead.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Diane Darling: View Post
    In response to Gypsey's question, I have another one: what is the status of the development across from Fircrest Market? Tombe Realty is handling renting/leasing, but I'm afraid to ask them if there are any HUD or other subsidized units there. Anybody?
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  23. TopTop #43
    JayS
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    I can guarantee there will be no affordable or HUD housing in this new development. Tombe Realty aka Chris Pellascini will have nothing to do with HUD.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    The current construction will be three stories, parking below, offices at the street, and apartments above. I don't know if any of the apartments are reserved as affordable, cris might have paid the inclusionary housing fees instead.
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  25. TopTop #44
    dharmawinks's Avatar
    dharmawinks
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Agree, have been looking for a year now and it is very bleak. Down right scary if one does not have a lot of contacts. I am in need of housing now, hoping by the 1st of July or sooner. Thank you for posting this.
    Janis Adkins.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by beshiva: View Post
    I suppose we need to carry on and always debate what anything is worth- but we don’t want to debate the underlying problem of all this debate. why do we not even debate the whole
    Concept of “landlordism”. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-26-2016 at 10:00 AM.
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  27. TopTop #45
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    This link to a variation on tiny homes came down the cyber pike today: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/sha/5643423045.html. FWIW.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-26-2016 at 10:00 AM.
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  28. TopTop #46
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Great thread and thoughtful opinions ...

    I'm tied to England through marriage so I'm aware of what's going on there ... they just voted to leave the EU ... though the stated reason was immigration policies, many have been screaming about their standard of living steadily decreasing, and indeed it has ...

    What Sebastopol is going through seems to be happening in most parts of the world right now, have you noticed? ... prices for everything rising and wages stagnating ... so what's going on? ...

    Many say that we are now an oligarchy ... that would suggest that corporate profits have taken center stage obliterating every humanity based concern that we might have ... this is the function of business, after all ... increasing profits ... and while small business might be content to survive and provide an income for the owners, corporations have investors to support ...

    So it isn't the landlords, it's something bigger ... it's the current focus in the world on the accumulation of wealth by the upper tier of society, and the rest be damned ...

    I am in the middle of this whole mess and I really don't know how to proceed... my long term house mates are now leaving because of dissatisfaction by my management company regarding their rental performance ... I'm in the middle and I would not have chosen to evict them, but off they go ... so now I have a house that I can't afford with no house mates ... before they were asked to leave, they managed to complain about all kinds of things ( that suddenly broke ) that led to all kinds of costly repairs ... branches on the roof turned into thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tree work ... and, of course, my rent went up ... still, it's a good deal compared to other houses ... but the whole experience did make me reluctant to get other house mates ... and then there's the changes in Sebastopol, which are obviously beyond our control and not conducive to what we once had, which was a human based, diverse community ...

    Now go back to the world situation ... read the stories ... listen to the rants ... all very similar ...
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  30. TopTop #47
    Diane Darling's Avatar
    Diane Darling
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    I was walking slowly down one block in Seb the other day with my fine imported Englishman, an elderly intellectual who's glad he won't be around to see the worst of it, having already lived through post-WWII London, and I had to chuckle wistfully when we were in the new rock shop. This new place vs the old rock shop is emblematic of what's happening to Sebtown: old Deadhead rock hound with lots of strange and wonderful stuff retires and posh people from down south bring in gorgeous, astonishingly expensive pieces. This reflects who we were and who we are becoming, as a town.

    As we learned from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, resistance is futile when you're in the paws of the Vogons. We who didn't invest our time in money, or who did but were sucked dry by the economic machinations anyway, are being cleared away in favor of mid level wealth, people who will probably also find themselves emptied by the system when they reach their later, more vulnerable years.

    Meanwhile, I'm casting a wider net: yesterday I visited 10 senior citizen villages/apartment blocks in Seb and SR. I'm pleased with the quality of the buildings, landscaping, quiet, etc, and will return to four of them to make application. Leaving Seb after most of 16 years will be sad and very inconvenient, but I'll land on my feet, park myself until my son and I are ready to buy - wait...um...can't buy now because prices too high, prices still rising...well, one can only hope. Literally: one can only hope.
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  32. TopTop #48
    IgorGold
    Guest

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Except that the de-industrialized, consumer capitalist model no longer sustains the well being of the people or the environment they occupy. Monetization is a measure of value, not the value itself.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Joshua Shepherd: View Post
    Because we live in a de-industrialized capitalist economy where in the absence of a healthy diversified economy, housing is the new gold rush- until the next economic collapse. Get in while you can, get out before the bust. Everything must be monetized. Because the market.

    Rent is theft.
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  34. TopTop #49
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    To those writing to me to share my home, I'd like to have you over to discuss possibilities ... I just read the posting about the intentional community ... that's what interests me but I don't know if this is the property for it ... the house is small but on acreage in an old apple orchard ... I would like to take in everyone who is facing homelessness but, of course, there are rules to be followed and I must respect those rules ... is there nowhere in this county where we can realize this concept? ... I need very little and actually want to get creative with my life ... we are in a rough times and it would be good to make it into something better ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    .. my long term house mates are now leaving ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-26-2016 at 08:40 PM.
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  36. TopTop #50
    rossmen
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    My favorite analysis of world and us economic trends is from marx. As citizens of empire we have been bought off so that our military will participate in imperialist wars of domination. As us empire fades the funds to buy us off decline, the trend is even more apparent in our UK senior partner.

    Is this a bad thing? Could we live with less, in line with world standard? what is preventing this; our expectations and/or regulations and laws?

    As a renter your options are limited, reads like you can pick new landmates and there are plenty of options. Take time and care : )
    Last edited by Barry; 06-28-2016 at 12:46 AM.
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  38. TopTop #51

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

    Does Sebastopol have a substantial plan to addressing housing challenges? Healdsburg may be a model for Sebastopol. In response to what is probably a further developed affordable housing crisis in Healdsburg their City Council has been developing a Housing Action Plan because the community "Recognized that today’s housing challenges could not be resolved with yesterday’s tools". That is what we need to do in Sebastopol If we want a diverse community and to have a workforce that can afford to live here, but it is up to residents of Sebastopol to make it a priority for the Council.
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  40. TopTop #52
    KatyO459
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?the costs of rental application cfes!!!!!


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    My favorite analysis of world and us economic trends is from marx. As citizens of empire we have been bought off so that our military will participate in imperialist wars of domination. As us empire fades the funds to buy us off decline, the trend is even more apparent in our UK senior partner.

    Is this a bad thing? Could we live with less, in line with world standard? what is preventing this; our expectations and/or regulations and laws?

    As a renter your options are limited, reads like you can pick new landmates and there are plenty of options. Take time and care : )
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  41. TopTop #53
    KatyO459
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?the costs of rental application cfes!!!!!



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by KatyO459: View Post
    so why the costly application fees per rental application,,,PER address?....
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  43. TopTop #54
    rossmen
     

    Re: Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?the costs of rental application cfes!!!!!

    I believe these fees are a strategy for extra income for rental management businesses. As a long time rental property owner I currently don't charge application fees, I just ask applicants to provide a credit report which they can get free. The current market brings lots of applications, 30$ for each application with an application required for each adult = hundreds a day for a rental agency which they keep, the rental owner usually pay a fee for the agency renting a unit and a % of the rent for management.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by KatyO459: View Post
    so why the costly application fees per rental application,,,PER address?....
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