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View Poll Results: Should Efren resign?

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  • Yes, Now!

    37 67.27%
  • Not yet.

    3 5.45%
  • No

    5 9.09%
  • I don't know

    10 18.18%

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  1. TopTop #31
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Peggy:

    I know that you can't imagine Carrillo not resigning, but unfortunately, I can.
    Just look at how fast they pulled out the "spin machine" and how fast, furious and
    full-throttle that it's running now. And now they're attempting to "shift" the blame onto
    the victim by saying that he was merely there to have a beer with her. I find this to be more of the
    same lame excuses similar to those that have been offered up in the past as explanations
    for his questionable behavior, and quite frankly, it's both disturbing to Sebastacat AND disgusting.

    His handlers -- no, er, his friends -- or, excuse me -- his enablers are going to do
    everything in their power to get him out of this proverbial pickle.

    And who can blame them? They were the ones who handpicked this guy, put a ton of money
    into his campaign, spent lots of time preparing, training, grooming and dolling him up in a suit, and they're
    not about to just call it a day and throw him under the bus. No way.

    On the other hand, we are residents of this county, constituents of the fifth district, and we deserve better of our elected officials than this. In fact, it's up to us to DEMAND it if we are to have any type of credible representative county government at all which can truly be taken seriously.

    While I agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, the fact that Efren was out at 3:40 a.m. attempting to gain access to a woman's apartment by ripping open her window screen, only to be foiled by the sound of rustling blinds, certainly calls into question his judgment, not to mention his motives for doing so.

    Whether he ultimately is held accountable for his actions remains to be seen; nevertheless, this is NOT the type of behavior that I desire in an elected official -- any elected official.

    -----

    jbox: Regarding the "compassion" issue which you raise, I'll probably have more to say about that later. But for now, I will just say this: That cuts both ways, and Efren is now finding that out -- unfortunately, for him, the hard way.
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  3. TopTop #32
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    My perspective: Effen Carillo is a politician; he's not going to resign until that's his only option, no matter how many of us sign a petition (remember Nixon?). Is there some more effective action we could take to oust him?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dominus: View Post
    If you want to see Efren Carrillo resign, please sign the petition below. 84 signatures are needed.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/sup...sign-now#share
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  5. TopTop #33
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I agree that it seems unlikely that he would flat-out resign, unless there's actually a conviction for an offense that mandates more than just a fine. Is there such a thing as a leave of absence, tied to a requirement to complete a serious rehab? Efren is a human being, a male human being, a young male human being, a political young male human being, but that doesn't necessarily convert him into a two-dimensional shooting-range target. It's a waste of a life to suddenly reduce someone to that status.

    When your career gets fast-tracked and you start to feel power, and especially when a lot of money is invested in you, your center can easily get wobbly -- look at the music industry, which isn't really very different from the politics industry. Flash and cash. OK, Efren has made political decisions that have had results I don't like, and seem to be more supportive of the well-being of business than the well-being of the rest of us, but I've also heard appreciation for times when he's been helpful and responsive to local voices.

    Right now, what is foremost in my mind is that he's got a serious alcohol and impulse control problem, and I've seen it implied that this isn't just on his own dime in his private personal life. If he's making decisions that affect the community, it better not be with a red-hot amygdala and a tank-full of alcohol. Can this be a wake-up call? In my life, I've known many folks who have stumbled, fallen knee-deep in dreck, cleaned themselves off, and built admirable lives.

    Those who have invested in his political career will likely tell him the comfortable story that he's in good hands, that his critics are hysterical s&!#s, and that it will all blow over. I am angered that the Zimmerman story became what it was and didn't stick to the issue of providing arms to every Tom, Dick, and Harry and letting them use them with impunity. I am angered that the Snowden story has been shifted away from the appalling fact that the systems he revealed are real, and dangerous. What concerns me most with Efren Carillo is he is in a position to make decisions that affect us all, and that he is not in balance. And that is a serious problem across the board for any position of power, whether it's due to personal instability, being controlled by blackmail, or being bought, paid for, and remanufactured.
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  6. TopTop #34
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    To Independent Eye:

    Great post. You certainly hit the nail on the head.

    As I have said -- and will continue to say -- his friends and handlers -- no, uh, er, his handlers/enablers, can continue to help him slide out of his all-too-frequent dust-ups, messes and questionable behavior if they wish, which will certainly help him for the short term.

    But for the long term, they are doing him no favors. All that these "good hands" are doing is continuing to fan the flames of
    the public's discontent by continuing to offer up more flimsy excuses.

    In Sebastacat's opinion, what they need to do is to stop enabling him, start leveling with him, stop making up lame excuses for him -- and have him come clean with his constituents and start being truthful.

    F.Y.I. handlers/enablers: We're not all as stupid as you think we are.
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  7. TopTop #35
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Yes. It is called a "recall election." That is how we ended up with Schwarzenegger as Governor, an unfortunate abuse of this progressive-era protection in our state constitution.

    It is not easy and requires sustained effort by a lot of people which is why it does not happen often -- especially in this short attention span era.

    Two features of a recall action making it the superior modus operandi:
    A) it is an action by the electorate, not the power elite;
    B) the electorate has an opportunity to select the replacement for the ousted office-holder, unlike the situation if the office-holder resigns or is removed from office by other means.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    My perspective: Effen Carillo is a politician; he's not going to resign until that's his only option, no matter how many of us sign a petition (remember Nixon?). Is there some more effective action we could take to oust him?
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  9. TopTop #36
    forveterans49's Avatar
    forveterans49
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    He most certainly needs to go like yesterday; a real disgrace. He needs treatment to get his life together but stay out of politics.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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  10. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  11. TopTop #37
    dzerach's Avatar
    dzerach
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye: View Post
    I agree that it seems unlikely that he would flat-out resign, unless there's actually a conviction for an offense that mandates more than just a fine. Is there such a thing as a leave of absence, tied to a requirement to complete a serious rehab? .
    I don't understand why ppl keep treating this like it's just a sex scandal. And, with your type of thinking, isn't there a danger of this happening?: " If charged and convicted of a felony he would lose his job under a state government code covering elected officials. Gov. Jerry Brown would appoint a replacement." Definitely do not want to see what the state would do.
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  13. TopTop #38
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Sign the petition here...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    Is your rationale because you are outraged at Efren's rather stupid behavior or is it just that you disagree with him politically? Did you call for Clinton's resignation because his little head occasionally did the thinking?....
    I just can't see him as a burglar or a rapist, no matter how bad this looks,... I have found him to be accessible, concerned, and a practical politician. .
    are you supporting him just because you agree with him politically??
    somehow I missed the story about Clinton roaming the neighborhood in his skivvies. Scary image, that.

    and as far as the second part, there's always a neighbor who says "he was such a nice boy. Who would have thought he'd do that?". There's also a bunch 'o groupies for Dzhokhar.
    The American Way is that innocent people aren't assumed guilty till so proven. However -- there's also the (obsolete) cliche about Caesar's wife. Public officials get to meet a different standard, and being busted in sketchy circumstances does indeed impact his ability to serve as a trustworthy representative. So while he maybe shouldn't be tarred and feathered quite yet, I think pressuring him to resign is a very defensible reaction.
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  15. TopTop #39
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Friends—

    We received a private email in response to Elizabeth's post about Carrillo (that was Elizabeth's, she just forgot to sign it), and while I want to respect the person's privacy, I need to make a broader point.

    The gist of it was that (a) he's hopeless, (b) the action of breaking and entering is damned serious, and (c) he should resign straightaway.

    I don't know about the first: I've spent my entire career telling stories about people, real and imagined, and anyone who can predict the life trajectory of any human being must be a descendant of the Norns.

    The second I agree with totally.

    And the third I agree with, somewhat reluctantly from a political standpoint: from the dubious vantage point of 71 years, I think politics is a game of balance of powers, that money talks, and that if you get a few good things out of anybody in office, you should be grateful to the Goddess or the Lord of Hosts, take your pick.

    But the reason I write — and I should say it was a respectful and sincere note — was the inclusion of a couple of phrases, and here I must violate nettiquette and quote: "You, and those like you wringing your hands over 'poor Efren'..." and "How can your ilk fail to see..."

    Anger bounces from the perpetrator to anyone who expresses any sort of empathy with the perpetrator. Likewise, the Waccoite who pronounced anathema upon a lawyer who was willing to represent Carrillo. (As if saying, "How dare Atticus Finch defend a nigger?") I guess that the current atmosphere dictates that there are NO middle grounds, gray areas, nuances, and NEVER empathy with your perceived evildoers. We're not "wringing our hands," and I'm not sure exactly who qualifies as "ilk." But I fail to see how the current polarizations do one goddamned fucking bit of good. They just add wind to the hurricane.

    Peace & joy—
    Conrad
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  17. TopTop #40

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I, for one, do not believe I have enough facts from the Press Democrat article to make even an educated guess about what actually happened or was potentially about to happen. I certainly don't know enough facts to make a judgment in the case, nor should cases ever be judged by what's in the newspaper. That's why we have courts, judges, and juries.

    While we're generally skeptical of the press, it's easy to be tempted to believe the worst about a politician we don't like. Let's please resist that temptation, maintain our skepticism of news reporting, and support due process for every accused person.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    Henry....You are correct that it could have turned into attempted rape.

    I also think that this situation had the potential to turn into something worse, much worse, given
    the facts that we have been presented thus far. And I shudder to think what would have happened
    if he had made it into that girl's room and she had decided to put up a fight.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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  19. TopTop #41

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Conrad,

    You and Elizabeth remain two of the wisest people in Sonoma County.

    That said, I want to mention Game of Thrones, a ridiculously violent HBO show that I've unaccountably come to love. Why? Because of the complex, realistic characterizations. Because of its unwavering antidote to juvenile fantasies of good and evil. Because through watching it I've stopped pouting about things not being the way they "should" be.

    In Game of Thrones good characters do bad things and bad characters do good things. I'm a slow learner, but somehow this show got through to me: just because someone does a bad thing doesn't mean they're not a good person. It also makes very clear another fact of life: people change. Sometimes they learn and become smarter, kinder people. Sometimes they're traumatized or tempted beyond their strength and make stupid, mean mistakes. Either way, their next moves will surprise us.

    We're complex, and every situation involving power makes our complex personal characteristics play out unpredictably in relation to the other complex people involved.

    I like Efren Carrillo. I know a woman who has dated him, and she reports that he has a good heart and is devoted to public service. Not to power, but to service. Every personal encounter I've had with him is consistent with her report.

    I often disagree with him on policy, which isn't surprising. Find me any public servant I always agree with and I'll eat my hat and yours. And, with everyone else, I'm shocked and saddened by his recent drama. This is very bad news.

    I'm also saddened by the knee-jerk attacks from the Wacco community. This man isn't our enemy, he's a young man dealing with stuff most of us couldn't handle in his place. If he were our son or our brother, how would we react to the PD article?

    Whatever his mistakes, he has worked hard for us. He has taken a lot of heat that the rest of us are spared. In a real sense, he is our son and our brother. Let the truth be known, justice be served, and healing be achieved.

    Peace,
    Sandy
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  20. TopTop #42
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Sign the petition here...

    Um, ok this is a bit bizarre to say that he needs compassion because he is such a nice person. How could we possibly think he could be a rapist?

    The reality is that the majority of rapists are people that the victim knows. Sometimes very well. Our rape culture makes it easy in a lot of ways for a perfectly normal looking, accessible, concerned person to make that kind of choice to rape another person. To convince themselves that the other person wants it. To say that their no is really a yes. And oh lets put a little alcohol in the mix. With alcohol, all stops are off.

    While compassion is an important quality to have, its not in anyone's interest to say that this person couldn't possibly make that kind of choice. It is possible. Very possible. If the reports in the paper are accurate, the fact that he is walking around in underwear and socks, drunk, and trying to break into the woman's bedroom, doesn't mean he was just looking for a drinking partner. And if he was, it would be very easy for it to be much more violent.

    Yes the victim in this case DOES deserve our compassion and support. She made the call to protect herself.

    Jessica

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    I just can't see him as a burglar or a rapist, no matter how bad this looks, and believe me I think this could be the coup de grace of his political career. I have found him to be accessible, concerned, and a practical politician. On June 30th I e-mailed him about the high river level because I had concern for the 4th celebrations at Monte Rio and he got back to me on Monday morning at 8 AM.

    Remember he's only 32. It's a finely tuned high-wire act to be in politics, wouldn't you agree? A little compassion at least for now might be a little progressive.
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  22. TopTop #43
    heresbruce's Avatar
    heresbruce
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I am so grateful to see this thread, it brought home again what I had witnessed in prior threads: I had falsely believed that west county was where liberal progressive open minded people were... surprise, many of the folks out here are just as reactionary, judgmental and hostile as my Republican mother and Christian sister. Why wait for facts or more information when you can just express your biased opinions and prejudices, based on your own hate, or rumors and hearsay you got from some other like minded source. Let me be clear; illegal and inappropriate behavior needs to be treated with the appropriate consequences. But there are a whole range of possibilities of what may have happened that morning with Mr. Carrillo. I am appalled by the reactions I have seen here... I certainly hope I never have to face a jury of my peers, especially if some of them are as ignorant, jaundiced and angry as some of the people who have written here appear to be. Now... what sort of negative ugly responses will this receive? Do as you will. Bruce Schmidt in Occidental

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    Henry....You are correct that it could have turned into attempted rape. I also think that this situation had the potential to turn into something worse, much worse, given the facts that we have been presented thus far. And I shudder to think what would have happened if he had made it into that girl's room and she had decided to put up a fight. Thank God she's all right. My heart goes out to her, and I hope that she has not been too traumatized by this shocking event. Sebastacat has been disturbed by this horrible incident all weekend and finds this entire chain of events chilling -- just plain chilling. Enough, I say!
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  24. TopTop #44
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I feel compassion for the woman whose home Efren Carrillo attempted to enter WITHOUT her permission at 3:30am. That is a terrifying scenario. Simply, there is no sugar coating that fact. She phoned 911 not once but twice. That also is a fact. His behavior was remarkably self-destructive. For that, he has my sympathy however it doesn't change my opinion that I believe he is unequipped for public service at this time. I'm not interested in why he did what he did. Efren made a choice that night. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to do it. He brought this on himself and because of that I feel sorry for him.
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  26. TopTop #45
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    >>>I am the culprit and this is my communication. This is a copy; not so much as a comma has been altered. I'm astonished at Conrad's synopsis of my communication. Judge for yourselves.

    It wasn't my intent to misrepresent Henry's post. Nor did I intend to point to anyone as a "culprit." Any summary is an extreme simplification, but the point I was making was relevant to the two phrases I quoted. I intended to be tactful, but sometimes tact fails, as I feel it did with the words "your ilk."

    I don't believe that a statement of empathy is a plea for justification, leniency, or anything resembling hand-wringing bleedingheartedness. It's a very simpleminded statement: look from all angles. We've had many centuries of choosing up sides and war to the death, and about five minutes of trying any less hopeless course.

    I'll leave it there, lest war ensue. My apologies for unintended personal affront, and sorry we don't agree, though I'm not exactly sure what it is that we don't agree.

    Sincerely—
    Conrad
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  27. TopTop #46
    american dream's Avatar
    american dream
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Regarding the WACCO response to the charges against Efren Carillo, I find this rush to judgment by a generally progressive, reasonable group of people surprising and appalling Is this kneejerk mob attack mode really appropriate?

    The facts will emerge - two facts already known are that Carillo was unarmed and, yes, in his underwear, a dress mode that makes him more, rather than less, vulnerable.

    This may be the end of his political career as it shows such extremely poor judgment, but, regardless of how much one agrees or disagrees with his positions. this eagerness to vilify and condemn him and to assume the worst without further understanding of the whole situation is wrong-headed, small-minded and disturbing. We can do better.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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  29. TopTop #47
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Bruce,

    I see nothing "reactionary, judgmental and hostile as my Republican mother and Christian sister" about we citizens in Efren's district suggesting that he is wrong not to apologize to the victim of his acknowledged ACTION, stop painting himself as a victim of alcoholism, or even resign.

    Note that nobody denies that this was Efren who broke the screen, made noise, and knocked on the door of a woman he barely knew who called 911, in terror, TWICE.

    What on earth is reactionary about insisting that he take responsibility for his actions??

    Liberal, progressive and open minded people have values, too. And taking responsibility, showing remorse, and apologizing, not for "embarrassing actions" but for actions which caused a woman horror and harm, are among those values.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce: View Post
    I am so grateful to see this thread, it brought home again what I had witnessed in prior threads: I had falsely believed that west county was where liberal progressive open minded people were... surprise, many of the folks out here are just as reactionary, judgmental and hostile as my Republican mother and Christian sister. Why wait for facts or more information when you can just express your biased opinions and prejudices, based on your own hate, or rumors and hearsay you got from some other like minded source. Let me be clear; illegal and inappropriate behavior needs to be treated with the appropriate consequences. But there are a whole range of possibilities of what may have happened that morning with Mr. Carrillo. I am appalled by the reactions I have seen here... I certainly hope I never have to face a jury of my peers, especially if some of them are as ignorant, jaundiced and angry as some of the people who have written here appear to be. Now... what sort of negative ugly responses will this receive? Do as you will. Bruce Schmidt in Occidental
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  31. TopTop #48
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Why has Efren or his spokespeople not apologized to the woman he terrified?

    I have been amazed that there has been no public apology--and that the Press Democrat has yet to discuss this. Here is the letter I wrote from today's Press Democrat...I was glad to see that their editorial today provided more context than their recent news coverage...


    Troubling slant

    EDITOR: I am disappointed and troubled by The Press Democrat's coverage of the recent arrest of Supervisor Efren Carrillo ("Carrillo enters rehab for alcohol abuse," Monday)
    Given that one of the new investors in the newspaper is extensively quoted supporting Carrillo, I would think that the newspaper would make every effort to balance its coverage with sources who believe, as many of Carrillo's constituents do, that this incident is more than an "embarrassment" or something to be miraculously mitigated by treatment for alcoholism.
    Yet except for a spokesperson for the Santa Rosa Police Department and the mention of a petition effort, every source cited spun this as not as bad as it sounds. Equally troubling is that they were all men. Not a single woman was quoted as a source.

    How difficult would it have been to find a woman to quote who might feel very differently about how "bad" our supervisor's actions were that evening and whether alcoholism treatment as a remedy is an adequate response? With a war against women's rights being waged across the nation, we expect better of a newspaper of your caliber."
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  32. TopTop #49
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Thanks so much, Peacetown J, for expressing better than I ever could exactly how I feel.

    Sandoak and Bruce: So sorry that you believe that several of us who are asking Efren to take responsibility, showing remorse and apologizing for his actions is somehow anti-progressive and out of line. Maybe it's a generational thing, and perhaps I'm just finally showing my age, but I was instilled with these values early on by my parents, BOTH of whom were children of immigrants. And the one thing I remember about my grandparents is that they stood as pillars before me of all that was kind, right and just.

    However, I will make NO apology for taking the position that the only "victim" in this unfortunate incident is the woman whose apartment that Efren tried to enter by breaking her window screen.

    Please re-read the Press Democrat articles. There are at least two mentions of the poor woman being awakened by "the rustling blinds."

    Question: How would you like it if someone attempted to enter YOUR bedroom or the bedroom of someone close to you? My guess is that you'd be singing a completely different tune.

    Kudos to the Santa Rosa Police Department for not falling for his ludicrous story, whatever it may have been.
    At least they had the guts and integrity to not allow Efren to escape arrest for his questionable actions just because he is a powerful and influential elected public official. No matter what one's social or political standing may be, justice must remain blind. Anything less will mean the erosion of our judicial system as we know it.

    Let me also remind you of the fact that those great Americans who conceived our model Judicial system, our Founding Fathers, were the "progressives" of their time.

    While the charges may ultimately be dropped, I will continue to espouse my opinion that there is no excuse for anyone to be running around the neighborhood at 3:40 in the morning in their undies and socks and tampering with someone's window screen.

    My heart goes out to the real victim in this case: the woman whose apartment Efren attempted to enter. I hope and pray that she is not too traumatized to testify at any future judicial proceeding.

    In all the articles which I have read concerning this matter, I've read the words "I," "me," "he" and "Efren" more times
    than I can count.

    I'm still waiting to read the words "she" and "her."

    And, oh, yes, a few others such as "I apologize" and "I'm sorry" would also be nice.

    There's a victim in this, all right, and "he" ​isn't Efren.
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  34. TopTop #50
    heresbruce's Avatar
    heresbruce
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    My apologies to sebastacat, my posting was intended to be in response to the original first posting by Barry, and was NOT directed to you individually. I just realized that is how it appears, and is an error. Mea culpa...

    And Jonathan, it is possible to hold someone culpable for their actions and hold to the process of justice, as well as to be compassionate for the person identified as the victim, but not be calling for the alleged perpetrator's head on a pike... a good attorney would tell their client to say as little as possible in public, and if any apologizing needs to be done, do it in private at the right time, there will be plenty of time later for public statements since whatever is said will be fodder for public forums like this. Bruce in Occidental
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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  36. TopTop #51
    dzerach's Avatar
    dzerach
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I lack the imagination that some of the rest of you have. Someone has really got to have a good one to come up with scenarios that would present the man as having been misunderstood. An example would be nice. Just as one theory of many possibilities. I haven't a clue. The county feels unsafe to me. Not in a good way. Anything goes, come to find. Environment of Impunity.

    Why hasn't he stepped forward with a full explanation? This alone. Someone in public office who refuses to explain himself in these situations, again and again.

    You dont have to have any kind of moral compass to know that he's got dangerously bad judgment. For whatever the reason isn't the point.

    I guess ppl think it doesn't seep into his public life and the rest of us wonder how that airtight partition is erected.

    Being whisked away by others and driven to a rehab is not accountability. Even if it were Efren's own choice, there isn't a cause and effect equation to any rehab experience.

    Personally, I believe the office has got to come before the man -- in that chicken and egg equation. It's why Clinton erred -- it's not what he did; it's how it tainted the office he was responsible for. That's what he actually did. Is this such a fine point that it has disappeared.

    Look what Nixon ...and GWBush sealed it -- what they did to the presidency by abusing its powers. I've got a metaphor I wont use...

    It's almost a cult-like response towards someone: His age as "young"? And an unspoken underlying assumption seems to be there are no other leaders "of his caliber" (?) available, such a dearth of people to serve me in public office, whether locally or as a legislator ??

    No one interested in what they are asserting is the principal of the matter -- fairness ---(those who feel EC is being personally unfairly excoriated) seem to also want to understand what this does to other important principles and abstractions: accountability; restraint; sound judgment . Apologies? Full explanations? Humility? Any sense of shame and consideration -- the type that is bottom-line human and not moralistic? Run Hide and Forget? Pick your favorite principle in a county supervisor. Because imao that is what we are actually talking about. Fairness to someone -- or fairness to the office and its powers? The people being governed? Or lorded over with narcissistic, impulsive decision-making?

    Probably more a matter of figuring out what public office means, if anything, if it means anything at all.

    (Or is it just the person occupying it.)

    A confessional box w/a revolving door? An opportunity for ppl to grow their compassion? The stakes become high when you run for office, as it should be. Can people not see how these low expectations lead to corruption?

    The whole power this office holds over people's lives is the REAL principle in my usual, arrogant opinion, and how this represents the county, what it says about the ability to govern; it's not just about the 5th district-- that's fer sure! There is a tone of leadership here that really sucks, and it always filters downward like a gentle rain, whatever the leadership tone is: lack of personal control; arrogance; a lack of respect for oneself and the law; lying; hiding. That's the whole point of leadership, isn't it? To set that tone. I guess the tone is... compassion.

    How many times should one be allowed to apologize for bad PUBLIC behavior before we conclude there is a self-control issue that thwarts performance of duties? That will radiate out into easy corruption, if given space. The ability to self-delude, such a slippery slope. The electorate is an important part of the checks and balances in our system, why is it being viewed as a lynch mob. Is it just like Repubs trying to remove Gray for political reasons b/c they are just backstage racketeering?

    Here's my favorite narrow-minded Republican assertion: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Love that one, sorry.

    Here's something outrageous too: Has anyone considered that in his sweetness and immaturity EC is doing some kind of passive aggressive thing, that he doesn't want all of the puppet-makers drawing on his ass, that maybe he wants OUT of what has artificially escalated as "the rapidly upwardly spiraling career" that he's gotten pushed into? -- would he ever be allowed to change his mind? -- and he doesn't know how else to get out? Outrageous of me huh. But if it's true, he doesn't want someone to catch him. Sorry for overreaching. Some of you guys are too, from my perspective. Thanks for listening. We're all baffled in our own way.
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  38. TopTop #52
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Sign the petition here...

    It's not a matter of only because these are character issues. 32 yo is old enough to vote, to drink, to be married with children, old enough to own a house, old enough to get elected and re-elected, old enough to be in business, etc. 32 yo is more than old enough to take responsibility for one's actions.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    Edward,

    Is your rationale because you are outraged at Efren's rather stupid behavior or is it just that you disagree with him politically? Did you call for Clinton's resignation because his little head occasionally did the thinking? All the shrill voices here seems like a rush to judgment, we really don't know all the facts yet.

    I just can't see him as a burglar or a rapist, no matter how bad this looks, and believe me I think this could be the coup de grace of his political career. I have found him to be accessible, concerned, and a practical politician. On June 30th I e-mailed him about the high river level because I had concern for the 4th celebrations at Monte Rio and he got back to me on Monday morning at 8 AM.

    Remember he's only 32. It's a finely tuned high-wire act to be in politics, wouldn't you agree? A little compassion at least for now might be a little progressive.
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  40. TopTop #53
    Feed The Birds
    Guest

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Glia: View Post
    Yes. It is called a "recall action."
    I'm going to wait until the whole truth comes out. He could have been slipped a molly, taken Ambien, or be on SNRI medication and missed some doses. Where is your heart and compassion for another human being?
    Last edited by Barry; 07-17-2013 at 01:16 PM.
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  42. TopTop #54
    Vickie Brown
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    While the arguments go back and forth regarding Efren's "addiction". It has taken on a life of so many of the celeb's in Los Angeles, where they get into hot water and run off to rehab for thirty days to get out of trouble and look they have been cured!

    Not so fast! This man attempted to break into a woman's house! Who does that? Someone that obviously has some real emotional or mental problems. And not just the alcohol related issues. This man was running around his neighborhood in his underwear and socks, again who does that? Someone that has other issues besides alcohol.

    Now all he says is he is embarrassed. How nice for him. What about the woman you just terrorized? How about the female victim in all this? Not you Efren, the woman. Does she matter? Not to Efren, it's about him. This is the man that is your elected Supervisor, he does not care about the woman he just victimized.

    Now let's think through this whole rehab situation. Good old Efren now admits to an alcohol problem. Just great! You have a problem? And how long has that problem been going? Are you drinking at work? Before work? At lunch? Before an important vote? How about when you are sitting up at that podium, are you wasted then? Is any one testing you urine to see if you are drunk at work?

    We do not know if this elected official who now claims to have an alcohol problem has been drunk at work or how many times. We need Veronica Ferguson, the County Administrator to do her job and remove him immediately. Please start putting pressure on the County of Sonoma to remove him from this position NOW. Her email address is: [email protected]

    Thank you.


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  44. TopTop #55
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Feed The Birds: View Post
    I'm going to wait until the whole truth comes out. He could have been slipped a molly, taken Ambien, or be on SNRI medication and missed some doses. Where is your heart and compassion for another human being?
    I hear what you are saying about the whole truth. What I would suggest is that each of us takes a step back, and ask ourselves, if the victim of the acknowledged, undisputed action (trying to sneak through a window, removing a screen, knocking on the door, resulting in TWO calls to 911 by a terrified woman in the middle of the night) had happened to my sister or daughter or me, and this was NOT our County Supervisor, would you be saying the same thing (heart and compassion for the perpetrator)?

    Would you, Feed the Birds, be asking for the same compassion and non-judgment? Are you suggesting that his action might be justified if we can "blame" the drugs he might have been taking?

    I believe in compassion and heart for women who have been subject to violence, threats, and terror by men for centuries. I believe that women have the right NOT to be subject to break-ins in the middle of the night, regardless of the level of intoxication of their perpetrator. I am SO TIRED of the excuses that men make to justify their actions when it comes to inappropriate, illegal behavior, and I am nauseated by our patriarchal military system's unwillingness to address the epidemic of rape in the armed services. As for the Republican war on Women....where does this end, and WHO ARE WE as a modern society?

    I believe in compassion for the perpetrator, too. I believe, by the way, that people who grow and sell or deliver pot, or test positive on their parole drug tests, should not be filling our County prisons and probation offices--but they are. Right now (without a word of protest from Supervisor Carrillo, it should be noted).

    As a compassionate humanitarian, I feel that our incarceration rate is a stain on our society, and that far too many peoples' lives are ruined by an uncompassionate police-prison industrial complex. Right here in Sonoma County and, of course, nationally.

    To me., compassion does not mean that I believe we should rationalize, or , apologize for a person's actions, WHEN HE HAS HARMED ANOTHER PERSON, or cover up the discomforting REALITY that this is not something that we pay $145,000 per year to represent us should be doing. Especially given the facts: no apologies to victim, no recognition of the terror that such actions create for women, repeated attempts to blame the alcohol, etc., I feel we have enough facts to say that he should resign; that he is not fit for public office. I say this as a citizen, a constituent, and a taxpayer.

    I am not sure he should go to jail; that would be based on more facts and a trial. For now, losing his job and reputation are pretty bad penalties. Probation perhaps. Community service. I do wish him luck in his recovery, and future endeavors. But I know enough, from the UNDISPUTED FACTS of this case, to say that we, the people, ought to have the power to fire this public employee soon, and get someone in that office who does not stalk and terrify a woman in the middle of the night, REGARDLESS of whether he has a drug problem or not.
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  46. TopTop #56
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    ...I feel we have enough facts to say that he should resign; that he is not fit for public office. I say this as a citizen, a constituent, and a taxpayer. ...
    Jonathan,

    Why don't you wait until the whole truth comes out before you make up your mind. You and many others have pre-judged the situation ( prejudice ?? - OMG !! ). What if the second 911 call was to say something like it's OK, its just a neighbor I know? Maybe that's the case, maybe not. At this point we just don't know all the facts. So, you and all the other church ladies and chicken littles that seem to have the loudest voices round this site might do well do give it a little time and take a breath.
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  48. TopTop #57
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    You and many others have pre-judged the situation ( prejudice ?? - OMG !! ). What if the second 911 call was to say something like it's OK, its just a neighbor I know? Maybe that's the case, maybe not.
    jbox -

    Don't you think that if that were truly the case -- that she did, in fact, call 9-1-1 to change her story --
    that the Santa Rosa Police Department would still have gone ahead and arrested him?

    And by your inclusion of the word "prejudice" in your last post, are you using that term to mean racial prejudice?

    I will remind you that race has absolutely nothing to do with this, so please, if it was your intention to inject the race card into this, you need to fold -- now.

    I will continue in my reiteration of support for the Santa Rosa Police Department's decision to not buy E.C.'s
    story, whatever it may have been, and for having the guts and the grit to effectuate an arrest despite the fact
    that he occupies a position of power, privilege -- and trust.

    And at no time will I let his legal woes become more important than the victim's trauma and pain.
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  49. Gratitude expressed by 6 members:

  50. TopTop #58
    Damien
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Why was he released so quickly? Should not the victims of similar crimes have a chance to take a look at him before being released to oblivion? His lawyer now has plenty of time to get him a Groucho mask. Does he still have a passport? The rehab spot might be at the Moscow airport.
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  51. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  52. TopTop #59
    Claire's Avatar
    Claire
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    One of the myriad reasons we hope to have only people of good judgment making broad decisions that affect our personal welfare, our health and any number of aspects that politicos can influence our lives is that they leave themselves wide open to blackmail and corruption if caught in risky, risque' or illegal behavior. Even acute embarrassment could conceivably put a politician into a blackmailer's pocket.
    Imagine the simple scenario of someone tailing Carrillo on his little jaunt through the neighborhood in socks and undies. Um, that's not so good. But wait, there's more, as this guy now is creepy to a woman's bedroom window. Mm, even worse. Slitting the screen?? Looking pretty bad....
    So now we have a person who could be completely under someone's control in all votes for our County's Issues.
    No thank you. This is not a good fit for us.
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  53. Gratitude expressed by 6 members:

  54. TopTop #60
    Tinque's Avatar
    Tinque
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Let me just comment on one thing I know for a fact.. Courts , Judges and Juries are not what they should be , represent themselves to be and in any way should make one feel safer.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sandoak: View Post
    That's why we have courts, judges, and juries.
    Last edited by Tinque; 07-18-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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  55. Gratitude expressed by 2 members:

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