Apple Blossom School now will be Wine Grape School ??!!!??!!

[Peace Voyager]

I have taken Colleen up on her offer below and split off her extensive initial list (along with some commentary...) to a new thread called Wacco Heroes and Zeroes

As Colleen asks: "will you add to it too?"

I imagine I will... How about you?

Play fair...

Barry

---

Save all the dry-farmed, organic Gravensteins,

& the children!

....
I am pleased to help make lists of heroes and zeros; will you add to it too?
...

[Peace Voyager]

So you just joined Wacco on 4/24/13 Jay; what's your dog in the race? Are you an apple farmer planning to convert to wine grapes?

In a perfect world I would propose that all farming be organic. Unfortunately in this imperfect world where the ecosystem is already unbalanced, organic farming is not economically feasible for a lot of farmers. It boils down to cost of farming and crop yield. Just as people moving to the big cities know that their children will be breathing in smog and other city based pollutants , people who put their children in schools next to apple orchards also must have realized that apples get sprayed as well. For some reason people are up in arms about grapes but apples are okay. What farmer can afford to keep a large apple orchard going when they can't sell their fruit for enough money to even offset the cost of it's care? What would YOU do if it were YOUR land? Unless you can afford to take a loss every year you might just do the same thing these farmers are doing. Targeting farmers who are just trying to make a living without offering another way for them to make ends meet is just plain wrong. If you want to make a big deal out of a vineyard replacing an existing apple orchard then I say that you should all be prepared to subsidize this farmer so that he or she can farm organically.

[eeeeeeow]

There should be a moratorium on new vineyard projects for the next five years at least to understand what this conversion to a monoculture will have on our county and the habitat that lies within.

Just yesterday I heard the sounds of chainsaws and looked down my drive to see that the orchard across the street has been completely destroyed. The apple trees that greeted me every morning were gone. Personally, my family's quality of life took a punch in the stomach. My kids cried on their way to school this morning because of it.

As a community, we seem to ignore the possible affect losing these orchards and habitats will have on us.

There are people and conglomerates out there with loads of cash that can snap up parcel after parcel to benefit their private concerns, not the community at large, let alone the environment. We need to look at this long and hard, but meanwhile, we need to stop planting vineyards. There is a bigger picture, folks. To ignore it is immoral.

[Peace Voyager]

Not everyone will be happy with the solution but there is certainly a best possible outcome to be achieved.

This "best" outcome is subjective, and will be based on 2 things, the loudest, most numerous voices; or the ones with the most money to buy favors, campaigns, and legal expenses.

Since you just joined us as well; what is your stake in it? Let's try the direct approach.

We know the Press Democrat is invested in lurkers to report and comment on Wacco threads like this.

Who's pocket are you in; & who is in yours?

[Kalia]

We know the Press Democrat in invested in lurkers to report and comment on Wacco threads like this.

And how do we know that, exactly? What's your source? Barry, can you corroborate? Have you busted paid lurkers?

And since PeaceVoyager will ask, I don't have a dog in this fight. I live near Water Trough Road but don't have kids in any of the affected schools and don't own ag property.

Kalia

[Peace Voyager]

Who can forget the infamous vineyard conversion in the middle of Gravenstein Highway North in the fall of 2010 which resulted in what amounted to a replication of the Oklahoma Dust Bowl? The owners of the property did not even have so much as one water truck on the property initially to quell the dust; yet, the property sits right next to a state highway. Cars were dodging each other; it is a miracle that no one was hurt -- or killed. It is only after complaints were made that a water truck was finally brought in.

Thanks for pointing out -

WHAT WENT WRONG

in Sonoma County Agriculture, when it went from an industry, to a trophy investment for the 1% and 1% wannabe's.

WHAT WE NEED:

Sustainable land and water use; not fat cat vineyard owners, investors & lobbyist who buy off judges, ignore permits and environmental regulations; as well as not honoring right-of-way agreements promising no taking of trees. (This is what Hobbs did on the Hwy. 116 property across from Harmony Farms).

This is what happened and why I and others spoke up:

Sonoma County freezes hillside vineyard conversions

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...39916/0/SEARCH

WHAT WE MUST BOYCOTT: ALL CHAINSAW WINE

Meet Paul Hobbs 2.0

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...71003/0/search

A buying spree for vineyards, wineries

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...41010/0/search

Tree clear-cut sparks vineyard conversion furor

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...19756/0/SEARCH

Just remember that before throwing them under the bus in this article, Efren Carrillo was hosting campaign fundraisers at the Hobbs winery; which clear-cut property in his district without proper permits - at least 3 times under Carillo's nose. He was alerted to Hobb's illegal taking of Jenkel's property long BEFORE it happened and was clear-cut. Carillo did nothing to prevent it, and nothing since to restore justice to Jenkel, or the community & scenic highway visitors.

Also, it's key to remember that the new owners of the Press Democrat, are long-time influencers of it; Doug Bosco & Darius Anderson are Big Wine Ag advocates, as well as, are Lobbyists for PG&E and Station Casinos.

Do you honestly think any news which would hurt their clients', friends', spouses', lovers' and advertisers' interests would not be put through a serious spin cycle first?

Just look at how Bosco helped Efren spin out of assault right before he bought the paper:

Where was Carrillo yesterday? On a photo op for Crime Victims' Awareness, "walk a mile in their shoes".

Ask Efren Carillo what it might be like to walk in the shoes of the victim he put in the ER in San Diego with a single first-strike blow.

How convenient to have the resources of politically connected friends like Doug Bosco which enabled Efren to extra special treatment:

Facing felony charges, still bail is set at $10,000, rather than the usual $60,000 AND he's allowed to leave the country for Russia! Then when the person Bosco tasked to use his relationship with San Diego law enforcement to obstruct justice and influence the charges getting dropped, look what happens to local law enforcement when they become informed – nothing! The organized crime of the lobbyists for Station Casinos, PG& E & chainsaw wine have all bases covered for their political pawns' crimes and bad behaviour.

Or do they???

It's up to you to demand justice. This won't fix itself; and what is lost if you remain silent is irreplaceable. This is not simply about swapping apples with grapes. It's about money, power, corrupt media & politicians shaping and spoiling our air, water and land use safegaurds.

Have you had enough?

• Carrillo 'pleased' with decision to drop charges
  Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo said Tuesday he was 'pleased' that the case against him stemming from a street fight in San Diego had been dropped. Published October 9, 2012 https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...09481/0/SEARCH
• San Diego prosecutors drop case against Carrillo
  On Monday, a week before Supervisor Efren Carrillo was due to face charges from a Labor Day fight in San Diego, the case was dropped due to 'insufficient evidence.' Carrillo has yet to comment. Published October 8, 2012
  https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...09549/0/SEARCH
• Carrillo back, refuses to talk about arrest
  Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo appeared at a pair of local events on Saturday but remained tight-lipped about his arrest in San Diego. Published September 15, 2012 https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...19677/0/SEARCH
• Carrillo charges reduced, may be dropped in San Diego fight
  Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo will not face felony charges in connection with his arrest after a San Diego street fight, police said Monday. Published September 10, 2012 https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...19981/0/SEARCH
• New details in fight, arrest as Carrillo off to Russia
  Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo departed for Russia on Thursday as questions swirled about his arrest during a brawl in San Diego on Labor Day. Published September 6, 2012
  https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...09748/0/SEARCH
• Carrillo arrested in San Diego fight
• Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo was arrested in San Diego on Labor Day after an early-morning fight outside a popular nightclub that left one man unconscious. Published September 5, 2012
  https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...09839/0/SEARCH
• PD Editorial: The unsavory lightness of Jenkel's undoing
• Outcry over clear-cutting along Gravenstein Highway
• Disputed Graton houses burned in fire drill
• 'Stop-work' order on Guerneville-area timber conversion

So who gets to write
the next chapter,
the 1%,
or the majority of us?

[Peace Voyager]

Former Press Democrat reporter Bleys Rose confirmed the PD's use of lurkers on Wacco to me personally. I do not know if they are paid for this as part of their job, or supplement to their retirement, or do it unpaid to protect their interests, investments, reputation, etc.

You may know of PG&E recently getting a big fine from the State for infiltrating the EMF Safety Network under false premises. This is why I continue to make the Bosco connection beyond the wine grape monopoly to the other risks to our well being in Sonoma County and beyond.

Peace Voyager wrote:
We know the Press Democrat is invested in lurkers to report and comment on Wacco threads like this.

And how do we know that, exactly? What's your source? Barry, can you corroborate? Have you busted paid lurkers?

[Barry]

And how do we know that, exactly? What's your source? Barry, can you corroborate? Have you busted paid lurkers?

I cannot corroborate that. I'm proud to count at least 1 former PD reporter, Bleys Rose, among our contributing members, but I am not aware of any other formal contacts.

However, the PD recently slapped my hand for re-posting their article on the Preservation Ranch deal and asked me to refrain from re-posting their articles in the future. That was after I had done so, selectively, many times, with full attribution, of course. So there seems to be some awareness of what's going on here.

We do seem attract new members that jump in to controversial issues from time to time. I have nothing to suggest that they are paid by the PD or anybody else, though they often post on the side of monied interests. So long as they are respectful, thoughtful and on topic, they are welcome.

[dominus]

It doesn't always work out. Sometimes people lose money and sometimes children matter more than someone paying the bills.

[rossmen]

who is beenie anyway? no info on the profile... sounds like a hobbs attack dog to me. hobbs doesn't play fair, including online. i know from experience. ignore the weenie unless they man up to name their connections to the land and people of sonoma county!

Ah Sebastacat, you are propagating half-truths here.

[Barry]

who is beenie anyway? no info on the profile... !

Care to introduce yourself, William? To repeat a couple of the optional profile questions:

"How did you hear about WaccoBB.net?"
"What do you do to earn some bucks?"

And additionally, why are you so interested in this matter?

[Barry]

Care to introduce yourself, William? To repeat a couple of the optional profile questions:

"How did you hear about WaccoBB.net?"
"What do you do to earn some bucks?"

And additionally, why are you so interested in this matter?

To add to this, would you care to expound further on your previous comment?

Not everyone will be happy with the solution but there is certainly a best possible outcome to be achieved.

[Alexandra]

Dear WACCO Members & Readers,

It is an awesome and amazing testament to our community when we mark how far we have come in just 3 days since we have started to organize to address the proposed Vineyard Conversion on Watertrough Road. The beginning of our alliance includes children, parents, teachers, administrators, and many others. We have been in contact with the AG Board, the PRMD, the Vintner, Legal Counsel and the School Boards and Administrations. Meetings are planned for next week. Please join us in this effort. We invite your expertise, experience and partnership. There is a petition to sign which is just the first step in our scope.

There are a lot of issues that this touches on and certainly quite a bit of passion. To focus things to the main concern, it seems that it would be difficult to find a more troublesome situation where 3 schools literally touch the property in question and 2 are just across a small 2 lane road and 1 further up the road. We are not sure another cluster of schools so close to each other exists. It is a perfect storm with the combined number of mostly young children from the adjacent schools numbering close to or over 1000 mixed with a proposed 40 acre Vineyard. The shared boundary stretches up the road that borders the 3 schools and wraps around the back of these schools. There is ALOT of exposure. Despite the Right To Farm Provision, Private Property Rights and Agricultural Zoning, it is illegal for pesticides to "Drift". There are strict and specific California laws that address this and override everything else. It has been brought to our attention, over and over during the past couple of days, the great and likely potential for harm to these young, developing and vulnerable children and their stewards and the accompanying liability.

We look forward to hearing from you and receiving your assistance in this urgent and far reaching matter.

[sebastacat]

Mr. Beenie Weenie......your credibility is rapidly becoming eeenie weenie.

I drove down the Gravenstein Highway Strip this evening and saw THREE (3) vineyards in an approximately two-mile distance that had either cultivated the ground or mowed/sprayed all of the vegetation between the rows of grapes. I found one vineyard that seemed to leave some sort of vegetation between approximately every third or fourth row of the vines, and the vegetation that was left was mowed extremely short.

So why, then, did you make it a point in your inaugural post to tell us that most vineyards in Sonoma County do not mow between the rows of vines when the opposite appears to be true?

I guess it doesn't really matter, but I feel that the people on this board deserve something better than to be mislead, deceived and fed half-truths by the bushel.

Perhaps a good place to start would be with the truth.

[Shepherd]

Apples do not "require far more chemicals than grapes," as alleged below. I have farmed apples for 20 years near Apple Blossom school and never used chemicals. Perhaps the writer of these words has still not heard of organic, artisan or holistic farming.

This is the way it used to be, before the chemicals used to make war during World War II were transformed into pesticides and fertilizers. They were then ignited in l995 at the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. This month they ignited near San Antonio, Texas, at the West Fertilizer Co., killing more than a dozen people and injuring nearly 200. Get the message--chemical farming is hazardous, not only to pests, but to humans.

The bloated alcohol industry in Sonoma County is a threat to our economy and health. There are certainly many wonderful organic grape growers here. One problem is the boom and bust nature of this industry. Another is that this mono-crop has made Sonoma County vulnerable to a pest that could wipe out grapes.

Another problem is that ag land has become too expensive for most people to buy land to grow food, as I was able to 20 years ago. The grape industry is far too powerful in this county and draws some "bad apples," like Paul Hobbs, who do mean things to people, as well as to the land.

I will stand with the parents and families at Apple Blossom and Sun Ridge schools when the day comes that we need to back off the immoderate use of ag. lands for the grape industry.

I am having a difficult time understanding why this is even an issue at all. Apples require far more chemicals than grapes. Even organic sprays drift and can cause respiratory irritation. Grapes rarely require any application of insecticides while apples regularly require fungicides and insecticides. Spraying of apples requires spray rigs that force the chemicals high into the treetops which increases the potential for drift.

Folks like you are usually long on complaints but very short on viable alternatives.

[Beenie Weenie]

I want to apologize for not replying to you Sebastacat . Ii was working until very late last night and did not have the time or energy to post a thoughtful reply.

Who am I? I am an accidental grape grower.

Several years ago, a large apple orchard adjacent to my property was put up for sale. Many large, well known wineries descended on the property and in a short time there were several offers to purchase it. I knew that if I didn’t buy the property I would be living next to a vineyard that I would have absolutely no control of. I shared all of the concerns that you folks have today. My only option was to purchase the land. In addition to spending every cent I had, I borrowed money from my family and the bank. I over-leveraged myself and my family but I managed to purchase the property. I knew absolutely nothing about farming. After the excitement wore off I had to figure out how to pay back my family and the bank. I attempted to organically rejuvenate the ancient orchard (which required that I spend more money that I didn’t have).

When my first meager crop was ready for harvest there were no buyers for my apples. Oh I could sell a half ton here or a half ton there but the cost of picking would have put me under. There was no way that I could farm the orchard profitably. I was now nearly bankrupt.

My options were few.

1. I could sell the land to a large winery which would mean that I would lose control of the land forever and be at the mercy of the new owners.

2. I could declare bankruptcy and still lose the land and my home as well as destroy my credit.

3. I could lease a portion of the land to a winery and plant my own grapes on the remaining portion of the land for myself.

Which option would you have chosen?

I chose option 3.

As soon as I began removing the trees the neighbors started doing exactly what you are doing now. Here I was trying to do the right thing and I was being harassed on an almost daily basis.

I do not irrigate my grapes. I farm as sustainably as I can and use a minimal amount of chemicals only when absolutely necessary. I am a good steward of the land. I want this land to be a healthy, thriving ecosystem forever. If grapes go out of favor, I will happily plant tomatoes if tomatoes will help me keep the land. I believe that owning land doesn’t give you the right to abuse it; it gives you the privilege to live on it and take care of it. Even though I do not irrigate my grapes people still accuse me of being responsible for their water problems!

Installing a vineyard is extremely expensive. It takes on average over 10 years to break even. If the weather is fickle (as it has been) it can take even longer. No one who plants a vineyard is going to make a quick buck.

Is installing a vineyard messy? Yes. But it is temporary mess. Can all of the nuisance vectors be completely mitigated? No. Can most of them be mitigated to some extent? Yes. Once the installation is complete a vineyard becomes a very peaceful place. From harvest in September to bud break in April there is almost nothing going on in the vineyard at all. After harvest, the cover crop is tilled in and then when the vines are dormant they are pruned and the canes tied.

In the growing season, If the vineyard is farmed organically it will have to be sprayed more frequently than if it were sprayed with conventional fungicides. Spraying more frequently requires more early morning sprays and more fuel being burned by the tractors. Most conventional fungicides are extremely expensive and some require an application rate of as little as 2 ounces per acre. No grower is going to apply even one drop more chemical than is needed.

Spraying is highly regulated. Every time a vineyard is sprayed (conventionally or organically) a detailed report must be filed with the Agricultural Commissioner’s office. Growers must be licensed to purchase chemicals and their permit must be renewed annually. All workers must be trained and the chemicals (organic and conventional) stored in a well-marked secure area.

I am not alone in my feeling of respect for the land. I know many growers, large and small who are in this for the long haul and would not intentionally do anything to hurt their land. Most if not all growers would be very happy to sit down with their neighbors to explain just exactly what they are planning to do in the vineyard. All you have to do is ask them.

Many of the growers in this area have been farming here for generations. They have a deep respect for the land and they are trying to make an honest living.

Sebastacat, I stand by my statement of alternating rows of cover crop. I also stand by my statement of Methyl Bromide hardly ever being used anymore. Your quick trip down Hwy 116 looking at the vineyard rows is not an accurate way to assess how cover crops are managed in Sonoma County. Some of the vineyards on Hwy 116 are very new. The roots of young vines are not established so they are unable to compete with a cover crop. This is why every row of the vineyards you site are spaded or disked. Once the roots have gained a foothold, the rows can be mowed instead of disced or spaded. I didn’t say that all vineyards mow alternate rows. Some growers disc every row, some disc every other row and some don’t disc at all and simply mow between rows. Can the way vineyards be farmed be improved? Absolutely. Are some growers more environmentally conscious than others? Yes.

The wine grown in this area is certainly not the drug of choice for alcoholics. It is far too expensive to for most people to drink on a daily basis.

I have received many emails and letters from customers thanking me for producing my wines. I recently received a card from a woman in Florida whose fiancé proposed to her over a bottle of our wine. She told me that our wine was an integral part of that very special moment for her and she wanted to share it with me. Not everyone drinks wine to get drunk.

As you may know, our field hands are mostly from Mexico. These men and women are some of the finest people that I have ever had the privilege of working alongside of. Do you know what they do with most of the money from their paychecks? They send it back to their families in Mexico. The wine industry tangentially supports whole communities in Mexico. I can’t speak to all of the growers but everyone I know treats their workers with respect, pays them fairly, and provides them with insurance.

Have any of you heard of Ulises Valdez? https://www.valdezfamilywinery.com/
Paul Hobbs purchases some of his grapes from Ulises.

There are many other fine growers in this county. The Dutton family, for instance, has been farming in Sonoma County since the 1880’s.

This issue of an orchard replant next to a school is an important one with many facets. The health of the children is, of course, the most important. Can the children be protected? Yes. How? That’s not for me to say. It is up to the grower and landowner to develop a plan that will protect the school. Something to remember however; it is my understanding that the school was built on farmland. The farmland was there before the school. In hindsight it probably wasn’t such a good idea to build a school next to a farm. And for the neighbors; When most of you moved in you knew (or should have known) that you were moving in to an agricultural area. You shouldn’t be surprised by the agricultural activity.

If I had to guess I would say that this vineyard will be approved. It’s up to you to either work with the vineyard owner to create a workable plan that will insure that the children and the land are protected, or oppose every move the owner(s) make thereby forcing them to take extreme measures to protect their land.

I do not work for the vineyard owners. I do not even know who they are. But I have seen this play out time and time again. You folks are bright, informed and concerned Sebastopolites. You can help bring this situation to its best possible outcome.

[Kalia]

Sebastacat, your sample size is eenie-weenie. You saw 4 vineyards out of however many hundreds there are in Sonoma County and have now decided that what you saw is representative? I'm not saying you're right or that Weenie is right, just that you need to look at a whole lot more vineyards before you can make a credible statement.

Kalia

Mr. Beenie Weenie......your credibility is rapidly becoming eeenie weenie.

I drove down the Gravenstein Highway Strip this evening and saw THREE (3) vineyards in an approximately two-mile distance that had either cultivated the ground or mowed/sprayed all of the vegetation between the rows of grapes. ...

[Beenie Weenie]

Apples do not "require far more chemicals than grapes," as alleged below.

I misspoke. I should have said that conventionally farmed apples generally require more chemicals than conventionally farmed grapes.

My apologies.

Another is that this mono-crop has made Sonoma County vulnerable to a pest that could wipe out grapes.

Question: When 90% of the crops in this area were apples, were apples not a mono-crop?

[sebastacat]

Good morning, beenie weenie...

First things first.

What are the "extreme measures" to protect the land to which you refer near the bottom of your post?
Is this something you can share with us outside of the wine-growing community without being ostracized, or is this a threat that you may have overheard? Please let us know.

I am glad that you are a good steward of the land and do not irrigate your grapes. However, based on my observations and what I have been told by others who are far more knowledgeable than I am on the subject of vineyard irrigation, you are one of the few growers who employs this type of waterless grape-growing.

I remember well in the late '90's/early 2000's attending meetings in Occidental and hearing people's heartbreaking stories about how their wells dried up when a vineyard purchased property next door to theirs and drilled a deeper well next to theirs. Maybe those vineyard owners were being good "stewards" of THEIR LAND, but were they being good neighbors? Did they care that the well on the parcel next too theirs had been sucked dry? The answer -- all too often -- was NO.

I like to think that things have changed since that time, but when a proposal is being put forth like the one which we now find ourselves confronting, it certainly gives me pause.

Also, I continue to be amazed by so many vineyard owners who use the phrase "good neighbor."
Yet, what is the first thing that they do BEFORE they even undertake the development of a vineyard? Put up a seemingly endless amount of galvanized -- and, sometimes, barbed-wire -- fencing, along with several
"NO TRESPASSING" signs attached to it. Just what exactly are they afraid of? And who at that point are they trying to keep out? Copper thieves? Perhaps. But that has always begged the question:
Why continue to use copper fittings when they might get stolen anyway?

Sorry, but pardon me while I take this opportunity to reminesce and pine for the days when I first moved over here to Sebastopol (after living in Santa Rosa since 1961 -- and Sebastopol Road, on a working prune and walnut orchard, since 1972) and there were hardly any fences to be found.

Now, thanks to the proliferation of vineyards, the west county is fast taking on the look of a prison.

You speak of conventional fungicides being "extremely expensive" and that "some require an application rate of as little as 2 (two) ounces per acre. No grower is going to apply even one drop more chemical than is needed."

NOR SHOULD THEY!!

I will point out to you something which you conveniently omitted in an attempt to make the spraying of a vineyard more acceptable: There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between CONCENTRATION and DOSE!
Many of the agricultural versions of the fungicides and insecticides which you use are highly concentrated. The homeowners' counterpart of the same chemical is usually sold in a much more diluted form. Thus,
2 (two) ounces of the agricultural version of a certain chemical could potentially contain EVEN MORE
active ingredient than a pint or even a quart or even a gallon of the homeowners' version, depending, of course, on the particular chemical involved.

This, of course, is a general example; however, it is an extremely important point that needs to be made.
Trying to minimize the danger of spraying a chemical -- any chemical -- by saying that a particular chemical might be applied at a dosage of as little as 2 (two) ounces per acre is not going to make spraying agricultural chemicals right next door and in close proximity to six (6) schools any safer.

Also, another important question needs to be asked: To what chemical class do the chemicals which are going to be sprayed on this potential vineyard belong? Are they labeled CAUTION, WARNING or --
hopefully not -- DANGER? What is their position on the LD list?

I think that since the people at the school are going to be impacted directly by these chemicals that they have a right to know. Don't you? Please let us know where you stand.

Now, on to something else. You say that "many growers, large and small"....."would not do anything to intentionally hurt their land."

I agree with you; I'm sure they wouldn't. But, unfortunately, some of them sure don't mind hurting other people.

Take the vineyard installation at the corner of Occidental Road and 116 behind the Texaco station (the approximate area). Who can forget the ugly -- absolutely ugly -- and well-documented incident of the neighbor who was in his home on his death bed dying during that messy vineyard conversion and how the developers of that vineyard, their eyes clouded by rapacious greed, refused to stop the messy conversion even temporarily so that he could live out his final days on this earth in the peace and comfort of his own home? There was much publicity surrounding it at the time. And I will tell you that that shameful incident made me ashamed to tell people that I was from Sonoma County. And I AM a lifelong resident. (Question, added after original post submitted: Who in the west county who was around at that time will ever forget all of those improperly secured pieces of black visqueen flapping and flying around, allowing the methyl bromide fumes which they were supposed to be trapping to escape?)



No, some of us do not -- and will not -- forget. Being close to my family and having strong family values, you can't expect me to. And please, don't defend the vineyard developers for their shameful conduct; there simply is NO defense.

I have made another perusal of vineyards and still can't find many in my immediate area matching the
"mow/row" descriptions in your posts. I'll promise you one thing, though: I'll keep lookin'. Maybe I'll find a couple.
And, by the way, two of the vineyards that I described viewing yesterday in my previous post were WELL-ESTABLISHED vineyards.

Finally, lest you attempt to make the miraculous assumption that I am nothing more than a griping hypocrite, let me dispell any predispositions about me which you may have but are not willing to state:
I do NOT consume wine -- produced from grapes grown in Sonoma County of anywhere else, and I never will. In fact, I can't stand wine! It burns my stomach and makes me sick.

That said, I have several friends who do. And we all long for a day when those engaged in your industry will treat their neighbors with the same dignity and respect they they give to their grapes, their land and each other.

And I don't think that's asking for too much.

P.S.: When hops were so widely grown in Sonoma County, were they not a monocrop? Yes, they were. Then that scourge-of-all-scourges -- downy mildew -- wiped them out, once and for all, in the late 1940's. I know; my dad used to pick them when he was a kid....

[Peace Voyager]

who is beenie anyway? no info on the profile... sounds like a hobbs attack dog to me. hobbs doesn't play fair, including online. i know from experience. ignore the weenie unless they man up to name their connections to the land and people of sonoma county!

Beenie Weenie is listed as William Reston; Pace goes by Jay Norman.

More details anyone?

Colleen Fernald

Sonoma County resident since 1982

Consultant, Sales, Marketing, Advertising - in areas relating to optimal: living, working, playing

Loves well balanced, locally owned, organic & permaculture based agriculture

Hates politics, so jumps into elections to challenge voters to require more from candidates and elected officials than just business as usual.

Seeks to improve our quality of life by helping to define and achieve ideal environmental and social standards for 99.5% of us; and bankrupting or incarcerating the remaining .5%, whose means of profit causes harm, and/or is a result of illegal, immoral, or unconstitutional activity

[amumina]

Dear Community,

Here is a petition to sign as a first step in having your voices be heard on this issue. Please pass this on and join a growing and diverse alliance of concerned families and community members who will no longer allow current agribusiness practices to violate our children and lands. We are committed to ensuring that their future is in nurturing hands.

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/263/...ironment/#sign

We are a group of parents, children, educators, and community members associated with the five schools (Sunridge, Apple Blossom, Orchard View, Tree House Hollow Preschool, and Nonesuch) forming a dense children’s educational corridor on a block of Watertrough Road in Sebastopol, California. As community members, friends, and parents of hundreds of children in the Atascadero Watershed, we are forming this alliance to voice our intense concerns over the impending development of an orchard to vineyard conversion directly in our midst.

We are deeply troubled by the cumulative, chronic, and acute health effects from the use of pesticides, fumigants, herbicides, insecticides, rodenticides, and other toxic chemicals potentially involved in these agricultural projects which will undeniably drift in close range onto a large children’s population in their sensitive, developing years.

We are devastated with facing the environmental degradation of soil, water, air, and habitat from this project. The resulting erosion, runoff, dust, and traffic will be polluting our playgrounds, schools, wells, waterways, rivers, aquifers, and land.

As a collective voice we require a final say in determining the character and quality of life surrounding our community and children as a basic human right trumping all other concerns.

[dominus]

The Feds have kept the interest rates artificially low and this will continue. A lot of money has been parked on the sidelines since 2008. Given the options for investors these days, many investors are growing leery of the increasing volatility of Fed induced bubbles and all the accompanying manipulation. Consequently, a lot of money is going into "hard assets." Buying land for growing grapes has become the new modern day version of the "gold rush."

[Beenie Weenie]

Sebastacat,

You’re going to have your hands full trying to stop the vineyard installation so don’t waste any of your time going back and forth with me. I was simply being honest in sharing my experience as a grape grower with you. The points that I raised will certainly be raised by those that you oppose. The difference is that I have nothing to lose discussing this with you and I am not threatened by you. The folks you oppose have a lot at stake and won’t roll over simply because you or anyone else strongly believes that they shouldn’t replace an orchard with a vineyard.

There were several points I brought up that you either missed or simply chose to ignore. You won’t have the luxury of ignoring the powers that be when you present your case so I suggest you rely less on hyperbole and more on facts.

I don’t have time to waste either so I’ll take this opportunity to bow out and wish you and all of the others the best of luck in your quest…whatever it is.

Regards,

William

[sebastacat]

WOW! Such a sudden change.....

"Threatened"? Really? I've never "threatened" anyone in my life. Heck, I've never even been arrested.
In fact, I don't even have so much as a parking ticket on my record. I am a law-abiding citizen -- and I intend to keep it that way.

For the record, I did not threaten you -- or anyone else, for that matter. I merely asked you to explain what you meant by the phrase "extreme measures." I also asked you to answer a few questions. Since you did not answer any of them, I will let your silence speak for itself.

Could it be that what you are really "threatened" by is that there is still someone in the west county who remembers with specificity and with excellent recall the shameful acts of some of the bad actors in your industry which were committed in the past? I'll answer that question for you: I think it is.

If you want to dismiss well-founded opinions, the rescitation of well-documented facts and the dispelling of junk science as mere threats and "hyperbole," that certainly is your prerogative to do so. I can't stop you from doing so -- and I won't.

Finally, on my way out of town this afternoon and upon my return this evening, I had the opportunity to view two (2) more vineyards. And, once again, they both had nothing but completely bare ground between the seemingly endless rows of grapes.

But once again, I'll promise you one thing: I'll keep looking.....

And that's no threat.

[mamaj]

Dear Teenie Weenie, I grew up in Sonoma County,and have experienced what people with big investments into non organic vineyards have done to the land which used to be healthy and thriving. I grew up on Korbel winery. Apart from all the drama within the Heck family, I saw how badly they polluted the land and the Russian River. We could NEVER drink the water there from our homes. When I did once I ended up in the E.R. in so much pain I could not stand up let alone walk, I finally got through it.

My dad who worked there died from cancer, none of the Hecks visited him, even though we lived on their ranch. Their greed ripped him off terribly. He invented the riddling rack to turn the wine bottles ,on his own spare time, his own money. He also invented various bottling machines,in which he never recieved any credit for. His name was Carl Zieber. He gave his life for that winery. Working 24/7 on call. He arrived at Korbel when the original Heck brothers moved there and helped them build their empire. I am proud of him and all the work he did. But not the Hecks.

If you go down the Russian River behind the winery along Korbel beach you can see along the river banks impacted into the earth now, some of the garbage they dumped, they just covered it up with dirt with their tractors when the pile was to big. They were not recycling or even thought of it. The streams near our house had a bad smell and alot of unknown residue floating in what once was water.

My dad never drank the water, and he never drank their wine. Since then, I have seen our once beautiful hillsides and fields destroyed by selfish, greedy investors of this so called industry. But for them to go as far as putting vineyards next to schools and so close to homes, this should and needs to be stopped, and NOW! So Beenie Teenie Weenie , it's obvious where you stand, and you stand without a conscience, or consideration of the health and well being of all concerned.

Sebastacat,

You’re going to have your hands full trying to stop the vineyard installation so don’t waste any of your time going back and forth with me. I was simply being honest in sharing my experience as a grape grower with you. The points that I raised will certainly be raised by those that you oppose. The difference is that I have nothing to lose discussing this with you and I am not threatened by you. The folks you oppose have a lot at stake and won’t roll over simply because you or anyone else strongly believes that they shouldn’t replace an orchard with a vineyard.

There were several points I brought up that you either missed or simply chose to ignore. You won’t have the luxury of ignoring the powers that be when you present your case so I suggest you rely less on hyperbole and more on facts.

I don’t have time to waste either so I’ll take this opportunity to bow out and wish you and all of the others the best of luck in your quest…whatever it is.

Regards,

William

[mamaj]

So glad this petition is now happening. Everyone needs to sign this and fight for a healthier enviroment for all living beings,especially our children and wild life that call this property home. Thankyou for all your support !

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/263/3...ironment/#sign

[mamaj]

Thankyou for caring! I was one of the home owners in Freestone who experienced first hand how insane some of these grape growers are. When Phelps winery moved onto Freestone Flat Rd. the owner of their future winery there was extremely friendly to all us neighbors there .... then all hell broke out .

There was a small flock of wild turkeys living healthy happy lives in our area there. We actually raised 4 baby turkey chicks which were abandoned by the mother. My family and I took very good care of them and as they grew up, we learned alot about them and how smart they were.They are very family orienated ,and care for each other. Every early evening they would roost in the trees next to my bedroom, like all wild turkeys, they roost to be safe from predators. They eventually joined the family flock which was wonderful to see ,even though we would miss them. We still had the pleasure of seeing them when they would visit, eating the harmful bugs and snails from our garden, they helped save our vegies and flowers.

Then one evening, before it was dark, I was outside caring for our horses, when I saw 3 trucks drive by going towards the end of Freestone Flat Rd. there is a private pond up there in which my neighbors and my family would walk to. It was always so serene and peaceful, incredible to experience. I wondered why these guys were going up there,they were strangers, not neighbors and it was almost dark outside.

Then suddenly it sounded like a war zone- semi automatic guns were going off in a crazy way, and all the turkeys were calling out for each other in distress, until there were no more turkeys alive. A horrible silence. I could not believe what I experienced, but even all the animals on our farm seemed to feel the stress of what was happening. These guys, one of them Phelps son, and his so called friends, slaughtered these turkeys while they were roosting and peacefully sleeping .They did not have a chance to get away.

I contacted the Dept. of Fish and Game, but they never did anything. They also never responded when Phelps winery had huge bull dozers and tractors push all the top soil from a whole hill side into Salmon creek! This counties' history of "back door deals " has gone on for too long. This goes on between our legal representatives developers, politicians, courts etc. It is nightmare for people who seek justice to be served correctly, and live and raise their families, teaching their children right from wrong. Right now those children are growing up only to learn the real truth. We need to protect and raise our next generations in a honest and healthy enviroment,not the opposite.

Good morning, beenie weenie...

First things first. ...

[Pace]

Mammaj, After reading your post and those of others on this board I am pretty discouraged. Lumping all grape growers into one category and using nastiness, insults and sarcasm to make whatever point you are trying to make is not okay. Just because SOME grape growers and wine producers are uncaring and unscrupulous does not mean that ALL grape growers are.

Your personal story is obviously coloring your views. I personally know many good people who were apple farmers and now farm grapes. Changing crops does not make them evil, bad people!! NO one on this board has even acknowledged that it might be jumping the gun to assume that whoever is going to farm this vineyard going in next to the school won't be amenable to organic farming. No one has discussed trying to talk with them. It seems to me that many of the people on this thread that claim to be so morally superior are more interested in fighting and hating than finding a peaceable compromise.

Dear Teenie Weenie, I grew up in Sonoma County,and have experienced what people with big investments into non organic vineyards have done to the land which used to be healthy and thriving....

[estrella3210]

Christine, Thanks so much for the efforts and getting the word out about the petition, I've forwarded it to hundreds of folks so far. Several previously unknowing parents of Sunridge, all the parents at Tree House Hollow, a large local google-mama-group I'm part of and many other interested parties in the community. Hopefully the word will get out fast.

I have some handwritten signature already too, I'll be gathering more in the days to follow. I want to be sure they are included when the time is ready. Please let me know where and when I should bring these signatures. I will try to come to any meeting as well.

After volunteering at the Songbird Hospital here in Sebastopol for a year I was made very aware of the blight the vineyards specifically create for wildlife as well (loss of habitat (trees provide more habitat than vineyards) nets (animals get trapped in them), all sprays drift, etc.) And sadly the Hallberg Butterfly Garden has seen a serious decrease in the last decade of butterfly's too. Apple farming in this area is simply easier on the environment and thus the people who are part of the environment too.

We simply can't excuse a conventional vineyard going in next to that many children.

Click Here for the petition.

Thanks so much for coordinating this movement everyone.
In solidarity, Estrella

[sebastacat]

"Your personal story is obviously coloring your views."

I surely hope it is! Since it is our personal experiences which help us to form our life views and become the people we are.

When I read Mama J's story this morning on this board, it brought me to tears. Can you imagine having to endure that heartless slaughter, especially after bonding with those birds the way she and her family did?
And all for what? Just to save a few clusters of grapes. How pathetic.

And what about her children? What a horrible memory to last a lifetime. If you are not moved by her story, well, you must be devoid of all feeling.

I have been moved by the stories on this board, and I am glad that some of the posters here have shared their personal experiences with some of the bad actors in the vineyard industry. And until such actions cease, people are going to continue to speak out. And well they should.

As the phrase goes, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." While it may not always be fair, and while you "good stewards of the land" don't want to admit it and would rather attempt lamely to shift blame, vilify and mischaracterize those of us who are not afraid to tell the truth and express our opinion, that's what tends to happen.

Perhaps its time for some industry-wide regulation of their own if they wish to improve relations with their neighbors? Or...do they even care anymore? Maybe we've all just become mere stepping-stones.

Before you do a wine-country rush-to-judgment, give it some thoughtful consideration.

Think about it.