Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Thank you Barry for posting the FB comments! I would like to bring everyone's attention to the last post by Marty Roberts a.k.a Scamperwillow.

I sent her a private email, a "friendly request" to rescind her inacurrate statement and a request that she not "set the record straight" on issues she does not know, like the litigation. She made an edit where she refered to the "angry souls" and suggested that maybe they also brought litigation against Seb. I then sent her a DIRECTIVE to FIX IT. She said she'd seen the paperwork, so she WAS "informed" and she was not going to edit her statement.

Barry... my question is for you... When I first used a pseudonym, you suggested nothing I had said should be considered credibly because I lied about my name. Then you forced me to publish a close up photo of my face so as to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." What do you do Mr Moderator for someone who uses their real name, real photo, HAS THE REAL INFORMATION and then WILLFULLY CHOOSES to LIE to thousands of people, even after they've been asked NICELY not to, just to further their cause?! What do you do about the Marty Robert's aka "scamperwillow's" of the world? This isn't a personal attack- just wondering what your policy is. Do you ban THEM from posting? Because frankly, I'm offended by blatant liars, and everyone on this forum should be too!

Furthermore, Barry, considering all the postings on this thread, the last thread, and your affiliations, I think you'll find it hard pressed to convince anyone of substance that you did not know that statement to be false, and yet you made no attempt to correct it. Remember when Candy Crawley corrected Mitt Romney on Obama's use of the word "Terror?" Now THAT was RESPONSIBLE MODERATION! The only reason I'm bringing this up NOW is because I wanted to allow both you and Marty the opportunity to do the right thing and save face. Remember now that awkward moment Mitt had after he was corrected? It was almost too painful to watch.

[scamperwillow]

Oh sheesh - I will just delete anything I said about a lawsuit - I really don't want to get into this. I just want a solution for the market that works for everyone.

Thank you Barry for posting the FB comments! I would like to bring everyone's attention to the last post by Marty Roberts a.k.a Scamperwillow.

I sent her a private email, a "friendly request" to rescind her inacurrate statement and a request that she not "set the record straight" on issues she does not know, like the litigation. She made an edit where she refered to the "angry souls" and suggested that maybe they also brought litigation against Seb. I then sent her a DIRECTIVE to FIX IT. She said she'd seen the paperwork, so she WAS "informed" and she was not going to edit her statement.

Barry... my question is for you... When I first used a pseudonym, you suggested nothing I had said should be considered credibly because I lied about my name. Then you forced me to publish a close up photo of my face so as to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." What do you do Mr Moderator for someone who uses their real name, real photo, HAS THE REAL INFORMATION and then WILLFULLY CHOOSES to LIE to thousands of people, even after they've been asked NICELY not to, just to further their cause?! What do you do about the Marty Robert's aka "scamperwillow's" of the world? This isn't a personal attack- just wondering what your policy is. Do you ban THEM from posting? Because frankly, I'm offended by blatant liars, and everyone on this forum should be too!

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Willfully and blatantly lying, does that get us there Marty? I don't think so. That's all I'm sayin'!

Oh sheesh - I will just delete anything I said about a lawsuit - I really don't want to get into this. I just want a solution for the market that works for everyone.

[peggykarp]

Willfully and blatantly lying
Nancy, You seem to feel it's OK to use this kind of abusive language in your posts. I don't think I'm the only Wacovian reading them and thinking it's definitely not.

Willfully and blatantly lying, does that get us there Marty? I don't think so. That's all I'm sayin'!

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Yes, yes I do. It's just kinda how us simple farmer types role; we don't call a spade a hammer, we call it a spade. Here's an easy way to avoid "abuse" as you call it... DON'T LIE.

Willfully and blatantly lying
Nancy, You seem to feel it's OK to use this kind of abusive language in your posts. I don't think I'm the only Wacovian reading them and thinking it's definitely not.

[sebastacat]

Nancy:

As someone who has always had respect for your family's hardworking values and your dedication to the land and support for farmers, I would like to offer you the following advice, and I hope that you take it in the spirit in which it is offered:

Perhaps it's time to put down your secateurs and your skythe and use that hammer and spade to which you referred in your previous post to dig in and hammer out a meaningful compromise to this unfortunate debacle.

Calling Scamperwillow a liar and accusing Barry of censorship is beyond the pale and unnecessary, it does nothing to promote goodwill in the community and only serves to incite even more intense anger from those persons who disagree with you.

While I can understand your frustrations, I ask you to please tone it down a bit. I am still interested in what you have to say, but how you are saying it is leaving a very bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Thank you.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Thank you kindly, Tom. The thing is though, Barry HAS censored and Marty DID lie. In Barry's own words, "History counts!" And I HAVE offered a compromise: amend the settlement agreement (which apparently started all this) and I will sign my name. I have complied with with everything you people have asked of me, yet you ignore the facts and real actions of those in your own camp while preaching to me about "abuse" and "compromise." I don't doubt there's a bad taste in your mouth, but maybe it's because of what you're choosing to eat, not because of what's been offered and is still sitting untouched on the table.

Nancy:

As someone who has always had respect for your family's hardworking values and your dedication to the land and support for farmers, I would like to offer you the following advice, and I hope that you take it in the spirit in which it is offered:

Perhaps it's time to put down your secateurs and your skythe and use that hammer and spade to which you referred in your previous post to dig in and hammer out a meaningful compromise to this unfortunate debacle.

Calling Scamperwillow a liar and accusing Barry of censorship is beyond the pale and unnecessary, it does nothing to promote goodwill in the community and only serves to incite even more intense anger from those persons who disagree with you.

While I can understand your frustrations, I ask you to please tone it down a bit. I am still interested in what you have to say, but how you are saying it is leaving a very bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Thank you.

[franjoy]

Why not have one during the week in the early evening at the Barlow? It would help the problem of vendors not getting a space at the Sunday market. Sebastol could definitely support two farmers markets. It doesn't need to be exclusive.

[Thomas Morabito]

Due to the controversy and community discord that has been created around the Sebastopol Farmers Market, I
will not bring forth a proposal to relocate The Occupy Sebastopol Tent to The Barlow at this time.

[pearl g]

Sebastopol Farmers Market is crowded. The produce is fine but extremely over-priced. Expand the market and provide a real venue for real farmers and hobby vegetable gardens. When my kids were young they wanted to pick apples and sell them at the farmers market in Sebastopol to raise money for a school trip.

Guess what? The answer was an emphatic and very rude "no".

The kids raised money for permits and were allowed to sell their goods in Santa Rosa, Windsor, and Healdsburg.

I think a better, bigger, friendlier and easy to navigate market would provide the best competition to get the Plaza market to go out-of-business and make way for the future, a market where the importance of farming and camaraderie in a community are important. Not a handful of the same boutique bakeries. I have never found a bargain at Sebastopol farmers market. Delicious yes. Affordable not.

Let's make a new market with room for everyone!!

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Here are previous posts garnering HUGE support. What exactly has changed, except the fact that the Barlow does not wish to welcome one individual, Paula Downing, because of the legal baggage she comes with (which she insisted on having!) What's else, besides your friend's possible employment, has changed Scamperwillow, Oliviathundercat, Barry?!

---

Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market

Hi, This is Paula, contributing my two cents as the Sebastopol farm market manager:

When you think about the Barlow, just think about the possible alternatives: An ugly, corporate Chase Bank/CVS pharmacy, for example, or the original concept that was proposed and supported by most of the city council at the time - hundreds of apartments, four stories high, and thousands of square feet of retail space! (Goodbye down town!) Any other corporate funded nightmares you would like to envision??! ! How about Walmart? If we have a Chase/CVS complex on the Pellini corner, why not?

No doubt about it we are going to get something in this space! Here is our chance not to have a corporate monster at the gateway to Sebastopol. Here is our chance to renew and rebirth Sebastopol as a food and farm center of west county. When I weigh and balance all the options, I can't imagine why we would pass this up!

This is an expensive project, a vision that one man, Barney Aldridge, embraced as a result of the encouragement of many people who have been dreaming and hoping for many years to return Sebastopol to its historic roots as a food producing community. Think about that! A Santa Rosa kid who made some money and has made such a complete personal commitment to create this vision that he just sold his home and moved into an apartment to help pay for the project. One guy! Not Chase bank!

I just reread one of Wendell Barry's essay about saving us from the near complete slavery that we are now experiencing as a result of the ownership of corporate banks, insurance companies, etc., of our government, including the Supreme Court, and ourselves. Wendell believes that government will not save us (Oh, Barack, how sad it is!); that our only hope is to take back our communities and create something ourselves. Jesus! Let's do that at the Barlow! Sure, express your concerns, works to alleviate whatever problems you see, but get the vision - get the possibilities! Sonoma County has some of the most amazing food on the planet. I love the idea of immersing the Sunday farmers market in the middle of a community of small, local manufacturers of ravioli, cheese, salsa, tomato sauce, olive oil. kambucha and whatever. To develop a local food economy we need space for the food entrepreneurs to work. Here it is!

Also get the brutal reality. There has to be enough money to pay for this, enough to get the banks to lend to create the project. The wineries involved have some money - and they are small guys we can live with - compared to Gallo, for example.

About farmers markets in the winter: We will have some shelter but the idea is to bring your umbrella and support your local farmers. Shopping in the rain is exhilarating, actually; it's about how good it feels, sensually and emotionally, to connect our personal selves with the physical world and to experience the seasons - green food in winter; the excitement that comes with the first red food of spring (strawberries usually); and on into the bounty of summer. I work the Santa Rosa market all year long. We have tons of winter greens, squashes, potatoes - foods that our bodies need in the cold. Crafters stay home in bad weather because their stuff gets ruined but the farmers are always out there, except when the wind is ugly (wind eats tents). If the rain is really aggressive, we just bring out the Bloody Marys!

About the current market square: I love the square but it has become way too small. When I started managing nearly 20 years ago we had about 10 vendors. Now we have room for about 45. We could invite more young, innovative food producers if we had more room, which we would have at The Barlow. Barney has committed to creating a play space similar to the square at the Barlow. The market won't move unless we have that.

What else? Embrace the vision - I hope. Keep talking here on WACCO. Or find me at the market. Or call me at 829-3494. Or call Barney at The Barlow at 484-8020.

Paula
Sebastopol Farm Market Manager

P.S..We have decided to keep the market open all year long starting this year - right where we are - so you can see how it feels to shop in the rain starting now!

The following 9 members have expressed gratitude to Barry for this post:
bill shearer, caverly, gardenmaniac, Mrs. Wacco, oliviathunderkitty, podfish, scamperwillow, Sebtown1968, Thad

---

10-03-2011 09:55 AM Top #22
From: oliviathunderkitty

Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
<>

WOW!!!!! Fabulous news, Paula. Yay!!! I'd do handsprings if I could.

Great, thoughtful post overall, too, full of wisdom and thoughtfulness. Thank you.

---

10-03-2011 03:18 PM Top #23
From: scamperwillow

Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
Yeah Paula! I agree with all of this! and so glad the market will stay open!!

[peggykarp]

I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past.
That's unfortunate, because it does matter.

I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past. What is evident in the current thread that I have been reading is there is a lot of bias and a lot of personal agendas being promoted. If the people at the Barlow withdrew their offer to the SebFM, I am quite sure they had good reason to do so.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

You see?! NOW WE AGREE!! That's my point EXACTLY!! (See past posts copied and pasted for your convenience above :-)! I'm so happy we agree :-)

I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past.
That's unfortunate, because it does matter.

[sebastacat]

Hello, Waccobbians...

I want to address a couple of points made by two of the posters today.

Nancy: I am NOT a member of any camp. If you want to put me in a "camp" just for expressing my opinion, one that is contrary to yours, that is your prerogative.

You say you are a "strong Irish Croatian woman." Well, I am a "strong, passionate Italian boy."
If you do not wish to have others criticize you for the way in which you express your strong opinions, please do not do it to others. I am simply availing myself of my inalienable right to exercise freely my rights of free speech as a citizen. That will not be taken away from me -- by ANYONE.

All of the opinions that I have expressed in this forum on this particular topic have been solely my opinions; no one, but no one, has attempted to influence me, certainly not Ms. Downing, and not the Barlow or any of its personnel. In fact, I have absolutely no affiliation with either of them whatsoever. If any of them had tried to suggest an opinion or influence me, it would have been a complete waste of time, for anyone who knows me knows that that would be a supreme exercise in futility anyway.

My wish is that there will be a peaceful outcome which will be beneficial for THE ENTIRE community. That is where my heart is. And, judging from the many excellent, heart-felt posts in this thread, I believe that the same can be said for many others as well.

Pearl G: Thank you for your post. I agree with you that the prices are high at the current market. However, I hate to break this to you, but I doubt seriously whether you are going to get many Barlow bargains once they open their farmers market -- whatever day it winds up being held on. The Barlow, like the current farmers market, is a for-profit operation. This is not meant to cast any aspersions on either market for engaging in that type of business, as the for-profit business model forms the foundation of our system of American capitalism; rather, it is to point out that both markets will share a similar business model.

Last year, when my peach trees had a major crop failure, I decided to go to the Sebastopol Farmers Market to buy a box of peaches. I found a supplier, who, incidentally, was from the Sacramento Valley area, and I purchased a box from them. I believe the price, if my memory serves me correctly, was 28 dollars. They were nice people, and their peaches were excellent.

The moral of this story? Quality costs money. Quality plus convenience costs even more.
Since I made the decision to avail myself of both, I did not begrudge paying top dollar.

I'm sure by the time the peach vendor picks the peaches, stores them, hauls them down here, pays their booth space, tears down and high-tails it back to Sacramento, they probably make very little, if any, profit.

Finally, I wish to adopt all of the points which I made in my previous posts and reiterate that the Barlow should abandon their plans for a Sunday market and should give serious consideration to holding either a Thursday or Friday Market at their new location -- for the good of the community.

Thank you all who have taken the time to read my many posts on this subject. It is very much appreciated.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Oh Tom, I don't begrudge you in any way! I completely agree with you. We should ALL excercise our inalienable rights. But if you lie, I should be able to call you a liar. If you censor, I should be able to call out the fact that you censor! I have no problem with peoples' "criticism" of me. It's just, if ur going to criticize, you better make damn sure you're right. At least that's how I was raised. All I know is Marty claims to have had access to the source, yet posted to the contrary, Barry allows others to call me names, but bans me from responding. I think we want the same things, Tom. Just how to achieve it seems to be the dilemma.

Much love,
Nancy

Hello, Waccobbians...

I want to address a couple of points made by two of the posters today.

Nancy: I am NOT a member of any camp. If you want to put me in a "camp" just for expressing my opinion, one that is contrary to yours, that is your prerogative.

You say you are a "strong Irish Croatian woman." Well, I am a "strong, passionate Italian boy."
If you do not wish to have others criticize you for the way in which you express your strong opinions, please do not do it to others. I am simply availing myself of my inalienable right to exercise freely my rights of free speech as a citizen. That will not be taken away from me -- by ANYONE.

All of the opinions that I have expressed in this forum on this particular topic have been solely my opinions; no one, but no one, has attempted to influence me, certainly not Ms. Downing, and not the Barlow or any of its personnel. In fact, I have absolutely no affiliation with either of them whatsoever. If any of them had tried to suggest an opinion or influence me, it would have been a complete waste of time, for anyone who knows me knows that that would be a supreme exercise in futility anyway.

My wish is that there will be a peaceful outcome which will be beneficial for THE ENTIRE community. That is where my heart is. And, judging from the many excellent, heart-felt posts in this thread, I believe that the same can be said for many others as well.

Pearl G: Thank you for your post. I agree with you that the prices are high at the current market. However, I hate to break this to you, but I doubt seriously whether you are going to get many Barlow bargains once they open their farmers market -- whatever day it winds up being held on. The Barlow, like the current farmers market, is a for-profit operation. This is not meant to cast any aspersions on either market for engaging in that type of business, as the for-profit business model forms the foundation of our system of American capitalism; rather, it is to point out that both markets will share a similar business model.

Last year, when my peach trees had a major crop failure, I decided to go to the Sebastopol Farmers Market to buy a box of peaches. I found a supplier, who, incidentally, was from the Sacramento Valley area, and I purchased a box from them. I believe the price, if my memory serves me correctly, was 28 dollars. They were nice people, and their peaches were excellent.

The moral of this story? Quality costs money. Quality plus convenience costs even more.
Since I made the decision to avail myself of both, I did not begrudge paying top dollar.

I'm sure by the time the peach vendor picks the peaches, stores them, hauls them down here, pays their booth space, tears down and high-tails it back to Sacramento, they probably make very little, if any, profit.

Finally, I wish to adopt all of the points which I made in my previous posts and reiterate that the Barlow should abandon their plans for a Sunday market and should give serious consideration to holding either a Thursday or Friday Market at their new location -- for the good of the community.

Thank you all who have taken the time to read my many posts on this subject. It is very much appreciated.

[tomcat]

Having two exciting markets in Sebastopol on Sunday seems like a great idea to me. A little competition will keep both improving. It will bring more folks into town who will probably shop at both markets as well as other local business. Change can be a good thing. I encourage The Barlow and the Plaza Market to both be the best that they can be. I would love to support both. Perhaps downtown could have a sidewalk sale at the same time! Sounds like a party to me : ))

[pearl g]

It is unfortunate that our quaint town plaza is at an intersection where 2 major highways converge and cause a loud stinky neighborhood. The Barlow will inevitably detour some of the traffic and invite a lovely route around town with views of the Laguna.

$28 for a box of juicy peaches is a bargain compared to the $3 I paid for one small tomato when I too had a crop failure. When California farmers hear of our new market, they will be excited. Some central valley farmers are still into haggling and selling in bulk.

If you build it they will come.

And I will come. I had quit shopping at Sebastopol Farmers Market years ago (except to bop in for fresh butter and Indian food), but could never wait to get the heck out of there. I'm so excited to stroll the new Barlow. Bring it!

[sebastacat]

Hi, Pearl G...

I was about to e-mail you about your out-of-pocket tomato experience, but then I re-read your post and found that I actually misread it; I thought you said you paid 31 dollars for one small tomato!

Still, THREE dollars is, I'll agree, a bit high. I do hope it was a good one!

Hopefully, you won't have a crop failure this year -- and, hopefully, neither will I with my peaches.

[Joseph Askren]

*Two Quotes*(it looks like two is better than one,let there be 2 Farmers Market on Sunday)

* A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
* Choose the lesser of two evils.
* Keep two hands above high water.
* Two heads are better than one.
* Two is company, three's a crowd. * It takes one person to forgive;*it takes two people*to be reunited. ~*Lewis B. Smedes
* It takes two days*to learn everything about a man; to know animals you will need more time. ~*Iranian Proverb
* It takes two flints to make a fire. ~*Louisa May Alcott
* It takes two guys*on a team to do very well in the end and be successful. ~ Ed Belfour
* It takes two men*to make a brother. ~*Israel Zangwill
* It takes two people*to ruin a perfectly good day. First a person who says something downright nasty about you, and second, a dear friend who makes sure you hear about it immediately. ~Author Unknown
* It takes two*to destroy a marriage. ~*Margaret Trudeau
* It takes two*to get one in trouble. ~*Mae West
* It takes two*to make a bargain. ~*American Proverb
* It takes two*to make a marriage a success and only one to make it a failure. ~*Herbert Samuel
* It takes two to make a murder. There are born victims, born to have their throats cut, as the cut-throats are born to be hanged. ~*Aldous Huxley
* It takes two*to make a quarrel. ~*Traditional Proverb
* It takes two*to quarrel, but only one to end it. ~*Spanish Proverb
* It takes two*to speak truth — one to speak, and another to hear. ~*Henry David Thoreau
* It takes two*to start an altercation, but only one to end it. ~*Nicaraeuan Proverb
* It takes two*to tango. ~*Traditional Proverb
* One can endure sorrow alone, but it takes two to be glad. ~ Elbert Hubbard
* The chain of wedlock is so heavy that*it takes two*to carry it — and sometimes three. ~*Alexandre Dumas
Recommended Reading

[Claire]

Um, and why not Saturday?

[photolite]

Not for nothing, but in the recent past there has been vehement opposition to the development of other properties on the edge of the downtown core partly over concerns of drawing people away from our small town commercial center. As the Barlow behemoth has a veneer of political correctness they seem to be given a pass here (as on traffic congestion and sucking business away from our core merchants), once again demonstrating it's a moveable standard in Sebastopol when it comes to what's important to this consciousness community. Haven't heard this raised as an issue regarding the Farmer's Market. My guess is that should the Barlow piss off enough former supporters it (being several blocks outside the core) will then become another issue of convenience.

Why do it, indeed? Could it be the Barlow is a better location? The Barlow has more spaces so more farmers can sell their wares and the public has a greater selection, they have more parkjng, they have a much better node of activity that will attract a diverse clientele who will shop for other things than what is offered at a Farmer's Market, and it frees up the Plaza for other things to happen, though the Barlow is only a 3 minute walk away. Come on folks, this whole thing sounds like a gaggle of indignant hens cluck-clucking around the barnyard. The real question is: What is the better space for the market?

[rossmen]

my understanding is that you sued paula and the original sr market. and it resulted in a settlement, which you now regret and want to change. how exactly did marty lie? i don't get it from your posts.

one way we lie is not to tell the whole story. i can cite examples of you doing this. personally i think that sometimes this is a good and necessary thing, and usually no one has the whole story. if someone thinks they do, they are probably mistaken.

barry is clear that free speech is not the wacco promise. with the attention he has given you, it is clear to me he is really trying to work with you. i am glad he still allows you to post. i appreciate the info and passion you share. though i do not agree with you. i think the barlow crew are being stupid and predict their permit will be turned down.

you are correct that my first name is john. i have not used it since i left my family home 36 years ago, just doesn't fit me. i prefer my middle name, ross.

Thank you kindly, Tom. The thing is though, Barry HAS censored and Marty DID lie. In Barry's own words, "History counts!" And I HAVE offered a compromise: amend the settlement agreement (which apparently started all this) and I will sign my name. I have complied with with everything you people have asked of me, yet you ignore the facts and real actions of those in your own camp while preaching to me about "abuse" and "compromise." I don't doubt there's a bad taste in your mouth, but maybe it's because of what you're choosing to eat, not because of what's been offered and is still sitting untouched on the table.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

my understanding is that you sued paula and the original sr market. and it resulted in a settlement, which you now regret and want to change. how exactly did marty lie? i don't get it from your posts.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, so ill try again. I agreed to what I agreed to, even the rediculous caveat Paula insisted on. Now it's coming back to bite her in the rear because the Barlow wants no part of her legal baggage. This has nothing to do with regret, my dear... I actually find it very karmic that she is unwanted and doesn't like it. I'm actually trying to help her by saying if she'd like to change the agreement, to help her relationship with the Barlow, I be happy to oblige. If there's anyone regretting anything right now, it's Ms. Downing. I knew what I was signing, she didn't see this coming. Marty posted that the litigation had nothing to do with Sebastopol. She was not only completely wrong, but claimed to have seen the paperwork after I corrected her and she proceeded to correct me- It had everything to do with Sebastopol!!!! In fact, the whole thing started in Seb.!! She had the information, she knew the truth, yet chose not to speak the truth- to me, that's not knowing the whole story, that's a lie.

one way we lie is not to tell the whole story. i can cite examples of you doing this. personally i think that sometimes this is a good and necessary thing, and usually no one has the whole story. if someone thinks they do, they are probably mistaken.

Not sure what examples you're referring to, but don't care. As anyone can see, I am very willing to talk. I'm just not sure though how you can argue that I don't know the whole story about my litigation and how the organization is structure and ran. It's actually my story! Not Marty's, not Michele Ana Jordan's, not Barry's- mine.

barry is clear that free speech is not the wacco promise. with the attention he has given you, it is clear to me he is really trying to work with you. i am glad he still allows you to post. i appreciate the info and passion you share. though i do not agree with you. i think the barlow crew are being stupid and predict their permit will be turned down.

I think there is a difference between "moderating" and "manufacturing," and limiting free speech outside the obvious justifiable reasons like profanity, threats, harassment, etc. is crossing the line from moderating debate to manufacturing concent.

you are correct that my first name is john. i have not used it since i left my family home 36 years ago, just doesn't fit me. i prefer my middle name, ross.

Shakespeare wrote,"What's in a name? A rose by any other name smells as sweet!" My point was two-fold:

1) Barry's hard line policy on using your "real name" somehow being linked to credibility is neither well towed hard line nor relavent to credibility. Are you any less credible as Ross as you are John, or Moonbeam, or Prince, or whatever you want to call yourself? I contend- no.

2) The information is out there, you just have to be willing to find it. Too many people on this thread aren't actually interested in finding the information, the truth. They just want to develop opinions based on heresay. If people really cared, they'd find it, just like I found your real name and what "applefan" majored in in college. Wacco's just don't seem to want to deal in research and facts.

[Peace Voyager]

At the Farmer's Market today, the plaza looked naked without the Occupy tent. Don't think it belongs at the Barlow.

Wish there was an easy solution for having 2 markets: Sat @ Barlow, Sunday in the plaza.

I'm sorry for all the hard feelings going around, not picking sides, just hope everyone keeps it accurate and civil.
Heated and passionate points of view need to be heard just as much as the sweet and silly kind.

Yes we have an interesting history; thanks to Wacco, a of record of some of it.

I'm not judging anyone here, just suggesting - before taking action, please ask: is this fair, honest, or is it time to step away and get some air. Is it worth it to get worked up? Sometimes. Is this one of those times? What can be gained; what gets sacrificed?

I can relate to folks not being honest, respectful, fair; and feeling ganged up on. Additionally, I treasure the gratitude and kindness that's been expressed as well.

I also know that if I'm gonna dish harsh truth; I've got to be willing to take it. (Still not taking sides here.)

Let's see how well we can reduce and resolve our differences that stress us. Let's impress the lurkers, and any other life forms who may be observing, with a display of excellent problem solving skills.

If it matters to you, let the managers of both farmers markets know your preferences; perhaps both markets will be improved with your effective communication.

With all the other challenges we have from toxic: food, water, medicine, energy & politics; I hate when we lose steam fighting each other.

Progress anyone?

Colleen Fernald

5' 9'; blue eyes; brown hair
American of Irish, German, Scottish, & French decent

Due to the controversy and community discord that has been created around the Sebastopol Farmers Market, I
will not bring forth a proposal to relocate The Occupy Sebastopol Tent to The Barlow at this time.

[rossmen]

so your charge that marty lied is because the settlement specified that neither you or paula could attend markets which the other was involved in? so since the existing sebastopol market is still managed by paula, marty's statement that the settlement had nothing to do with sebastopol is a lie?

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, so ill try again. I agreed to what I agreed to, even the rediculous caveat Paula insisted on. Now it's coming back to bite her in the rear because the Barlow wants no part of her legal baggage. This has nothing to do with regret, my dear... I actually find it very karmic that she is unwanted and doesn't like it. I'm actually trying to help her by saying if she'd like to change the agreement, to help her relationship with the Barlow, I be happy to oblige. If there's anyone regretting anything right now, it's Ms. Downing. I knew what I was signing, she didn't see this coming. Marty posted that the litigation had nothing to do with Sebastopol. She was not only completely wrong, but claimed to have seen the paperwork after I corrected her and she proceeded to correct me- It had everything to do with Sebastopol!!!! In fact, the whole thing started in Seb.!! She had the information, she knew the truth, yet chose not to speak the truth- to me, that's not knowing the whole story, that's a lie

also your words read like if this part of the settlement was dropped, the current market could move to the barlow (management and vendors). do you know this to be true? would you really be ok with this, what was originally planned?

[Joseph Askren]

2) The information is out there, you just have to be willing to find it. Too many people on this thread aren't actually interested in finding the information, the truth. They just want to develop opinions based on heresay. If people really cared, they'd find it, just like I found your real name and what "applefan" majored in in college. Wacco's just don't seem to want to deal in research and facts.

OOOuuuu do me,do me!!! Tell me something about me?

[Peace Voyager]

Progress anyone?

Colleen Fernald

I'm no fan of Hitchens. So sharing this quote demonstrates you don't have to like someone to appreciate at least some of what they do or say.

Everyone deserves the right to respectfully speak their truth. If you take the time to listen with your mind open; you might learn something, or even change your: conclusions, preferences, habits & transgressions.

IMO Paula has done our community a great service for a long time providing a place for farmers and others to sell good food, etc to us. And I'd bet that just like me, if she could rewind and redo some things, she would.

Fortunately all of us have the opportunity to improve how we live, work & play.

Besides not have 2 markets on the same day, how can we motivate the mangers to elevate an ideal cooperative farmers market schedule? Poll for this? Can the existing market be improved?

Is peace possible in Sebastopol, or Waccoland?

I'll own my stuff, work on my edges, clean up some unresolved issues, look for ways to shine.

Evolution is a work in progress for us all; but can we make it a team sport?

[sebastacat]

PeaceVoyager:

I wish to thank you for your inspiring and moving post. Never since I have been a member of Waccobb have such sage words been needed, as I feel that this thread has brought out passion and emotion as perhaps no other thread in memory has.

To all who have posted here: Just remember, when a decision is made -- and I can assure you, a decision WILL be made -- we all STILL have to live in this place we call home. And to quote our excellent Sebastopol Mayor, Michael Keyes, when confronted with a difficult situation involving two people having an argument at a recent city council meeting, "Please. We're trying to have a community here."

Truly beautiful words. And I exhort all of you to remember them each time you post.

Thank you.

[Peace Voyager]

PeaceVoyager:

I wish to thank you for your inspiring and moving post. Never since I have been a member of Waccobb have such sage words been needed, as I feel that this thread has brought out passion and emotion as perhaps no other thread in memory has.

Thanks Tom,

Being a veteran of waccoBB.net from incubation, and on Wacco's mothership @ yahoogroups for about 10 years, I've had many opportunities to passionately get it right and wrong.

I'd bet excerpts of the highs and lows of both would make a good book; let's start with the chapters on Green ways to treat ants and disinfect sponges. Remember other hot topics? How many strong opinions are missing now from those days?

Luckily Barry usually let's me gripe & promote where and when I need to. Though the past few years have left the waccoBB@yahoogroup rather stale and over-moderated.

But there I go again, slinging my opinion around ; )

[amalia]

Let's expand this discussion of Sebastopol Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow
to a live public forum.
Perhaps the Seb. Grange or the former Teen Center next to the
Seb. Community Center would be willing to hold the forum?
Gives the greater public a chance to weigh into this important decision.
Amalia

Willfully and blatantly lying
Nancy, You seem to feel it's OK to use this kind of abusive language in your posts. I don't think I'm the only Wacovian reading them and thinking it's definitely not.