Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Don't forget the "outing" of "Oliviathunderkitty" as Michelle Anna Jordan, columnist for the PD/ PAID by the Santa Rosa Original Certified Farmers Market, according to their own financials (which I'm happy to show anyone). But you deemed her use of a pseudonym warranted, as oppose to me, because you claimed she had something worthy of protecting... unlike me. Don't forget THAT! Or how you allowed both Michele and Paula to publish "open letters to the public," about me and my "vicious pit bull" (who's actually a harmless BOXER).... AFTER you banished me, so I had no means of recourse. Don't forget that, Barry.

Here's what I got this evening from Barry... another "Making up rules as I go for the people who's voice I don't like!" Clearly someone is more concerned with "control" than the "issues." I only objected when he posted a copy-written photo which he did not have permission to publish. I poster a photo of my darling Boxer... and this is what I got:

"Nancy, I see that you have changed your avatar.

The only thing I can think of to make you more considerate is to include a photo of you as your avatar so that you are taking full responsibility for what you post, just as I do.

The photo I used was publicly available on your Facebook profile. You are welcome to send me or load an alternate, equally identifiable photo.

I have revoked your posting privileges until you comply. If you do change your photo I will restore your posting privileges for as long as I can tolerate them and will prevent you from re-changing your avatar.

Barry"

I have NO problem being seen Barry! I just want to be treated FAIRLY!!

There's lots more there, much of it well worth a read, though the later part of the thread gets bogged down in a discussion of my outing "lizzysweet" to be Nancy Prebilich.

[qidancing]

I too have not commented until now, but the more I think about this and the more I read, the more I feel it is important to speak out. I too love the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, and I don't think having 2 markets on the same day makes any sense at all. Also the Barlow location is already a traffic nightmare. If they want to put on a Farmer's market, let it be another day and time so we can have more than one wonderful community experience during the week.

As far as the vendors, we have to recognize their freedom of choice. If they would rather be at a different market, or would like to do both the regular Sunday market and a Barlow market that is held on another day and time - that should be their choice. But it is our choice where we want to shop, and who we want to buy from.

If they do a market that competes with or diminishes the existing Sunday market, I will definitely boycott it!
qidancing

[scamperwillow]

Barry - those are rather selective excerpts. There is much much more to the story than Paula's advocating a against a joint market. This came after a very long period of trying to work things out. But the bottom line again is that the Barlow withdrew their offer to move the ongoing regular Sebastopol market - WITH a board of directors - to the Barlow. And that is where it all began.

I just did a a quick scan of it. Some of the more notable posts in that thread that seem to shed light on how we got to this predicament are:

#83: from bret martin (who seems to be managing the FM market and/or public relations for The Barlow) saying that Paula's board suggested the Barlow do Sunday market and collaborate and then proceeded advocate against it.

#88 also from bret martin, saying why they can't have Paula at the Barlow.

#91, Nancy Prebilich, under her pseudonym of lizzysweet, posting a letter to the SR Farmer's market BOD outlining grievances against Paula

#111 more from Nancy/lizzysweet. which combined with above.

[jbox]

Barry - those are rather selective excerpts. There is much much more to the story than Paula's advocating a against a joint market. This came after a very long period of trying to work things out. But the bottom line again is that the Barlow withdrew their offer to move the ongoing regular Sebastopol market - WITH a board of directors - to the Barlow. And that is where it all began.

Obviously the whole issue here is, if you have an open mind, where is the best location for the Farmer's Market, and who should take the lead in its management. If the Barlow feels their location is a win-win for farmers, the patrons, and the city and community at large then they should have a signicant, if not controlling interest in how the Market is run. Of course they would like to be in control. So, perhaps the question is which location is better, and for whom?

[Joseph Askren]

Nancy talked to me on facebook and she said that we could have fresh squeezed juice and/or seb zero ice cream together and talk about things...isn't that great?

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Joseph, on the last thread I even told everyone that I would gladly sit in the park on Sunday, with all my documents that support my position, willing to talk to anyone! Not ONE person showed up!! Except of coutrse Michele Ana Jordan who only came by to sneer at me. I am and always have been willing to talk to ANYONE. I have had several people email me privately on this thread and I give them my cell phone number. I have had neighbors knock on my front door to ask to talk to me on this issue and I have stopped what I was doing to sit down and talk under the oak tree. Barry has banned me, made up "requirements" for me, has censored me BECAUSE I am willing to talk. He says it's because I'm disrespectful and inconsiderate, but anyone else who has more than a spaghetti noodle for a spine can see I'm an intelligent woman who writes with a color, tone, and style that may not be to one's liking, but that it hasn't really warranted censorship. Barry has protected his friends using pysudonyms while "outing" me, made up a rule that my avatar MUST show a close up of my face to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." I have NEVER had a problem talking to anyone who, like yourself, is willing to listen to someone other than themselves, and is not afraid of a bold, fiercely passionate, educated, articulate Irish/Croation blooded woman who has documents, facts, and yes, has history in this community and on this particular subject, to support her POV... what I have to say is not just based on I WANT because I LIKE and if I don't get MY WAY, I want others to FAIL! .... Oh, but Nameste!

I look forward to our ice cream. Anyone who wants to join, I welcome (but like last time, I doubt anyone else will).

Nancy talked to me on facebook and she said that we could have fresh squeezed juice and/or seb zero ice cream together and talk about things...isn't that great?

[joyma]

Rarely post here...but my God the censorship on Nancy and MAKING her post a pic is sickening - maybe she doesn't want complete strangers glaring at her due to their utter lack of respect for her right to have an opposing view, (and by the way I should mention that I have no idea who Nancy is or who Barry is for that matter IRL). I have seen soooooooooooo many posts in the past that could be construed as rude and extremely inconsiderate - and they were allowed to stay on the board. I myself moderate several online groups and the ONLY reason to censor a person should be if they directly attack another member. Other than that, censorship is just a matter of control and bias. Seriously, I am disgusted.

...Barry has banned me, made up "requirements" for me, has censored me BECAUSE I am willing to talk. He says it's because I'm disrespectful and inconsiderate, but anyone else who has more than a spaghetti noodle for a spine can see I'm an intelligent woman who writes with a color, tone, and style that may not be to one's liking, but that it hasn't really warranted censorship. Barry has protected his friends using pysudonyms while "outing" me, made up a rule that my avatar MUST show a close up of my face to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." I have NEVER had a problem talking to anyone who, like yourself, is willing to listen to someone other than themselves, and is not afraid of a bold, fiercely passionate, educated, articulate Irish/Croation blooded woman who has documents, facts, and yes, has history in this community and on this particular subject, to support her POV... what I have to say is not just based on I WANT because I LIKE and if I don't get MY WAY, I want others to FAIL! .... Oh, but Nameste!

[oliviathunderkitty]

Dear Joyma, You might want to read through the thread from last winter that resulted in Barry's decision. It should help mitigate your feelings of disgust. This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction on Barry's part, nor does it seem to have been an arbitrary move. There is a lot of history that got both Barry and Ms. Prebilich to this point.

Barry is, I believe, the founder of waccobb as well as its moderator.

Rarely post here...but my God the censorship on Nancy and MAKING her post a pic is sickening - maybe she doesn't want complete strangers glaring at her due to their utter lack of respect for her right to have an opposing view, (and by the way I should mention that I have no idea who Nancy is or who Barry is for that matter IRL). I have seen soooooooooooo many posts in the past that could be construed as rude and extremely inconsiderate - and they were allowed to stay on the board. I myself moderate several online groups and the ONLY reason to censor a person should be if they directly attack another member. Other than that, censorship is just a matter of control and bias. Seriously, I am disgusted.

[counterpoint]

If anyone is interested in what Barney Aldridge has to say about this, he has posted several comments on The Barlow's Facebook page- It's under their post from Wednesday, under replies (he has given 4 out of the eleven) below Dian Hardy's comment.

[Barry]

Here's what I got this evening from Barry...

I want to remind Nancy, and everybody else, that publicly posting private communication is a serious breach of netiquette. In this case, I have no problem with Nancy's posting of my note to her regarding my efforts to encourage more civility in her participation here.

[joyma]

I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past. What is evident in the current thread that I have been reading is there is a lot of bias and a lot of personal agendas being promoted. If the people at the Barlow withdrew their offer to the SebFM, I am quite sure they had good reason to do so. I have heard from people around town that there is someone at the SebFM who is extremely challenging to work with and thus if that is indeed the case, the people at the Barlow have every right to protect their interests in having a positive, welcoming, harmonious working environment. The views and opinions here all seem to stem from a personal desire to have things stay the way they are (which is legitimate) - but the opinions have nothing whatsoever to do with making good business choices or with being open to something new and possibly better.

It seems to me that Nancy has a passionate, well articulated viewpoint. And due to other people's personal agendas she is being outcast. That is wrong and immature. A good debate should be welcomed, and all sides should be carefully considered. But that isn't even close to what I am witnessing here: on the contrary it looks like if someone has as strong an opinion in support of the Barlow's actions as do the ones against, they are deemed inappropriate and made wrong.

For the record I have no affiliation with the Barlow, the SebFM, Nancy or Barry.

Dear Joyma, You might want to read through the thread from last winter that resulted in Barry's decision. It should help mitigate your feelings of disgust. This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction on Barry's part, nor does it seem to have been an arbitrary move. There is a lot of history that got both Barry and Ms. Prebilich to this point.

Barry is, I believe, the founder of waccobb as well as its moderator.

[Barry]

If anyone is interested in what Barney Aldridge has to say about this, he has posted several comments on The Barlow's Facebook page

Here are those posts, From this past wedensday afternoon through current:

---

• Barney Aldridge We have committed to our tenants, and the community a farmers market at the Barlow. Because of litigation involving the existing downtown market, we were unable to just have them move down, as we desired, and originally anticipated. We are now planning to provide expansion room, marketing, and parking for the existing market, while managing on our own the vendors who set up in the Barlow.
• Barney Aldridge We are committed to work with Steve, and Paula, to promote downtown Sebastopol as a destination farmers market on Sundays. Has anyone seen a larger farmers market? They can really be fun, and interesting. Unfortunately the current market on the square is at capacity. Their are many farmers who want to join, but have not been allowed to. Has anyone else experienced the difficult access to the market? Our goal is to provide room for access, parking, and to provide additional marketing so that the existing market thrives better than ever, and continues to grow.
• Barney Aldridge Our policy will be to continue to receive input from the public, and to work closely with the existing market to find solutions to any challenges that are pointed out. Lets together make Sundays in Sebastopol a great showcase for all of our local farmers, and artisans. Lets include everyone!
• Barney Aldridge To be clear...... the litigation referred to above was between the existing farmers market, and some vendors who were excluded. Nothing to do with the Barlow.
• Patricia Dines Thanks for giving us more info on your approach to this. I do appreciate it.... The original promise was to move the existing market, so it seems you're not actually keeping the promise.... And to me I just don't see how two markets at the same time will both flourish. Your arguments seem to be that you're providing a better market - that's competition. Then each market has to compete as to why it's better. That feels uncomfortable to some of us, contrary to the communitarian style we specifically see around farmers' markets.... It seems to me that you could keep your promise to have a market by doing it on a different day, e.g. Sat. That to me is how both markets have a chance to be their own unique offering collaboratively. Or defining it differently, e.g. just arts not food....
• Marty Roberts And to be clear again, the litigation was around the Santa Rosa Market, not Sebastopol. I sure would like to see the Barlow do a market on a different day. That way farmers could have two days to sell their products and not have to choose between competing markets. And customers would love a second day to buy fresh produce - especially if they are not available on sunday.

End of Facebook posts.

---

What seems disengenous to me is that there have been reports of The Barlow soliciting the current Sebastopol Farm markets vendors to come to the Barlow.

[Barry]

I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past.
...
the ONLY reason to censor a person should be if they directly attack another member

That is precisely what Nancy has done. History counts.

I am now trying the approach of having her be fully accountable for her speech here rather than censoring her.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

And how does making up rules as you go and enforcing/implementing them from behind the scenes so nobody can see your bias and prejudice play into proper "netiquette?"

Not buying it, not in this case... and I hope the rest of u are not so easily bamboozled.

I want to remind Nancy, and everybody else, that publicly posting private communication is a serious breach of netiquette. In this case, I have no problem with Nancy's posting of my note to her regarding my efforts to encourage more civility in her participation here.

[scamperwillow]

Joyma, of course they have the right to hold their own market for whatever reason. The thing that is riling up the community is that they are choosing to do it at exactly the same time as the long-standing existing market (which is already permitted by the city) - causing conflict and forcing farmers to choose one or the other. A very simple solution that would satisfy everyone would be to held their market on a different day. The Barlow's permit application will be coming before the Planning Commission sometime soon and that would be a forum for people to express their opinions on this. Will the planning commission be willing to give a second permit in this small town at the same time as the already permitted one?

but the opinions have nothing whatsoever to do with making good business choices or with being open to something new and possibly better.

[joyma]

Barry,
I highly respect what you have created for this community.

I can understand the necessity of moderating to keep things copacetic. I have to do so often on my forums. However, from my perspective as an outsider, non-attached to any outcome - it looks more like a reprimanding, reproachful stance than does simple moderation. When I have to moderate people I let them know how I feel first, then I give them guidelines, then I give them another chance and if all else fails, I simply moderate their posts (so the posts can't go through without my approval). Again, from my perspective your "having her be fully accountable for her speech" feels downright patronizing and condescending.

From a very objective viewpoint, I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything that she has posted in this thread. But I absolutely do see a lack of openness, disapproval and aggressiveness from many other people who don't agree with her. I find their patronizing, passive aggressive behavior 1000 times more crude than her clearly passionate and for most likely a good reason, strongly worded communication. If I felt unheard and attacked, I would express myself strongly also.

It looks like a modern day witch hunt...with harassment, belittlement and utter lack of acceptance.

I don't know anyone on this forum. I'm just calling it like I see it. Take it for what it's worth.

Thank you...

That is precisely what Nancy has done. History counts.

I am now trying the approach of having her be fully accountable for her speech here rather than censoring her.

[Dorothy Friberg]

And that is why I will not be shopping at the Barlow. (In addition to N. Prebilich's venomous attitude)

Here is what the problem is - plain and simple. The Barlow reneged on their offer to move the existing market to the Barlow and decided to start one of their own instead. The current market with their board (that makes the decisions) and it's manager - who carries out their decision was UNinvited to the Barlow - THAT is what the problem is.

[Orm Embar]

I'm curious why there is an assumption that vendors will have to choose one or the other location? Why couldn't they sell at both locations? Is there anything from the Sebastopol Farmer's Market or the Barlow that indicates they will ban vendors if such vendor sells at the other market?

What I see is an expanded market and more opportunities for vendors.

I'm not saying that expanding the Sunday market is my first choice - I rarely get into town on Sundays and feel acutely disappointed that I miss out on the direct contact with farmers. (which is why I'm so excited to have some take up permanent residency at the Barlow . . . much easier access) I would much prefer an early-afternoon-to-evening market on a week day.

Has anyone talked with local farmers and asked how easy it is to get into the Seb Farm Market these days? Would they like the opportunity to sell in Sebastopol every Sunday? It's been a few years so it may not be true now, but I remember that many vendors could not be there every Sunday because there was only so much room at the plaza. . . so a rotation was set up for some vendors while others could be there every Sunday. As a purchaser, that was hard. I had to ask (and then remember) when my favorite vendors would be at the market. With an expanded market I would not have to wait weeks I could just ask where they will be next week and walk the block between both markets.

Frankly, I go to markets to buy veggies, fruit and meat. I don't often stay to eat lunch or lounge at the Plaza . . . so maybe my needs are different from others on this thread. I DO see a lot of friends and acquaintances on the rare occasion that I get to go, but Sundays are my one day with family so I make my greetings short and get on with my shopping.

Anyway, I'm still curious about the assumption I mentioned at the beginning of my post.

The thing that is riling up the community is that they are choosing to do it at exactly the same time as the long-standing existing market (which is already permitted by the city) - causing conflict and forcing farmers to choose one or the other.

[rekarp]

To sell at a farmer's market the farmer either hires people or they do everything themselves. Selling at two locations at the same time will require an output of more money - both for paying people and renting the booth space. Although there may be more business at both markets combined, it is unlikely to be enough to make up for the increased expense of selling at both locations.

The farmers are the ones who are most likely to lose out in this scenario, just as they have in Santa Rosa. They will end up working harder to make less money.

Setting up for a market is a lot of work. There is the expense of a truck, the time and effort to load up the tables, scale, and other equipment, the products, etc. Then at the end the effort to break down and bring it all back. It's pretty much out of the question for most local farmers to do two markets at the same time.

I'm curious why there is an assumption that vendors will have to choose one or the other location? Why couldn't they sell at both locations? Is there anything from the Sebastopol Farmer's Market or the Barlow that indicates they will ban vendors if such vendor sells at the other market?

[jbox]

The Barlow management has applied for a permit to have a competing Sunday farmers market. we have talked about this before on WACCO and there was alot of feeling expressed that we should stay at the plaza and that it would be a bloody shame if the Barlow decided to compete on the same day. Beware...they are.
this would tear our community apart....why do it?

Why do it, indeed? Could it be the Barlow is a better location? The Barlow has more spaces so more farmers can sell their wares and the public has a greater selection, they have more parkjng, they have a much better node of activity that will attract a diverse clientele who will shop for other things than what is offered at a Farmer's Market, and it frees up the Plaza for other things to happen, though the Barlow is only a 3 minute walk away. Come on folks, this whole thing sounds like a gaggle of indignant hens cluck-clucking around the barnyard. The real question is: What is the better space for the market?

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Now we're starting to have a decent conversation!

What you say is very true, selling at markets IS a whole lot of work, and growing a successful business does take capital (both time and money). I want to clarify a few things and ask a few questions.

1) vendors in SR have been hurting since the split. Remember that EVERY vendor was welcome to stay and the supposed rent issue was clearly a non-issue because the folks at the Vets have NOT had to have their stall fees raised to pay the rent. Then those who moved made a "7 mile rule." My question is why move if you're welcome to stay? And why make a rule that prevents those who CAN grow their local food business from doing so?

2) we know the Barlow did not renig their invitation because people have been griping that vendors at the plaza have been getting invitations to apply. So my question is why, after a mandate to move and two years of anticipation do the vendors suddenly not want to move to a more spacious location that will offer more resources for advertising, more space for more customers, covered awnings, and supportive businesses?

3) if we KNOW the AVERAGE age of the American farmer is 65, why would we not want want to support new and young farmers by helping them with THE HARDEST part of the business- getting your goods to market? Why would we boycott a place that is offering that opportunity and instilling fear in the old farmers that they will have no customers if they move to a space more conducive for THEM?!

4) And how can ANYONE claim they are community minded but want failure at the entrance of our town... in fact, contribute to it?

5) and who are we to say local farm businesses are exempt from competition and/or growth? Right now, you demanding they do neither, yet we have organizations and programs galor promoting MORE MORE MORE local fresh clean food. How do you reconcile with these double standards?!

[applefan]

Most members of the community and vendors at the Sebastopol market in the plaza who weighed in on this said they preferred the plaza. THEY think the plaza is the better space.

Why do it, indeed? Could it be the Barlow is a better location? The Barlow has more spaces so more farmers can sell their wares and the public has a greater selection, they have more parkjng, they have a much better node of activity that will attract a diverse clientele who will shop for other things than what is offered at a Farmer's Market, and it frees up the Plaza for other things to happen, though the Barlow is only a 3 minute walk away. Come on folks, this whole thing sounds like a gaggle of indignant hens cluck-clucking around the barnyard. The real question is: What is the better space for the market?

[Rnomistakes]

Why not compromise? Anyone ever attended the Thursday night farmers market in San Rafael? I'd love to have two farmers markets on two different days. The current Sunday market in the Plaza is perfect the way it is. It doesn't need to be bigger. I had friends come from out of town and they couldn't stop talking about it. It fits Sebastopol , it's in a perfect location. Adding second market in the Barlow on the same day is a mistake. It's divisive and engenders a competitive attitude, hurt feelings, which is obvious from the comments on this thread and it's not serving the community. I've even heard the threat of a boycott. Jesus, Barlow folks no one wants that, this is becoming a public relations nightmare.

With that said I would completely support a bigger market on Thursday evening at the Barlow. I've walked through the Barlow it has it's own flavor and I believe a market at the Barlow would be a great addition to the community equal to the Plaza. Music, businesses open late, music, etc. I personally hope that everyone involved will let go of their personal agendas and past events long enough to consider the community. We're all bigger than this.

My vote is continuing the current Sunday market at the Plaza and and creating a brand new Thursday night market at the Barlow. I'll admit to a slight bias because by Thursday all of my Sunday produce is gone.

[sebastacat]

RnoMistakes:


Amen!!

That's what I said a couple days ago. Apparently, by the number of gratitudes which I received, several others in our wonderful community would like to see that happen as well.

I agree with your post in its entirety. However, I would like to propose one slight change: that the market be held starting Friday afternoon and continue into Friday evening. Have you ever noticed how many people are out on the streets on a Friday night? Just think, the Friday night market could become THE end-of-week event, something for lots of people to look forward to.

Also, having the market on a different day than Sunday would also help allleviate on other important problem: TRAFFIC!! How many Waccobbians truly believe that having two markets in close promixity to each other on the same day is not going to be a traffic nightmare?

In my opinion, the Barlow already has a public relations nightmare on their hands, and I'm sure that they don't wish to start a weekly traffic nightmare as well. Now THAT certainly will harm all of their other vendors.

To the powers that be over at the Barlow, I reiterate: Remember the "C" word (community) -- and proceed with another "c" word -- caution.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Here's the problem you are not considering (and I don't blame you because you would only know this if you are coming from the Farmer's perspective.) there will be some people you might accommodate with your propsal, sure, BUT the fact is, farmers NEVER make, per capita, on weekday evenings what they make weekend mornings. Week day evenings are fun and festive and for the customer who wants to be OUT having a good time, not lugging around groceries.

Look at Healdsburg's Tuesday versus their Sat., Sonoma's Thurs. versus a Sat. morning, Santa Rosa's Wed. night vs. Sat. morning... the volume of people are way higher for evening markets but sales are NOT comparable for the FARMERS. Prepared foods, crafts, novelty vendors do well, farmers, not so much. NO farmer would trade a weekend morning for a weekday evening... they're apples and oranges. No chefs shopping, the moms that shop for the houshold are driving the kids to some practice of some sort, or home to get homework done before bedtime... I'm just saying, from an inside vendor perspective, it isn't the quick fix you want it to be. I'm TOTALLY in favor of a weekday evening market, and they're usually great markets, just not great markets for the farmer.

With that said I would completely support a bigger market on Thursday evening at the Barlow. I've walked through the Barlow it has it's own flavor and I believe a market at the Barlow would be a great addition to the community equal to the Plaza. Music, businesses open late, music, etc. I personally hope that everyone involved will let go of their personal agendas and past events long enough to consider the community. We're all bigger than this.

My vote is continuing the current Sunday market at the Plaza and and creating a brand new Thursday night market at the Barlow. I'll admit to a slight bias because by Thursday all of my Sunday produce is gone.

[jbox]

RnoMistakes:
I agree with your post in its entirety. However, I would like to propose one slight change: that the market be held starting Friday afternoon and continue into Friday evening. Have you ever noticed how many people are out on the streets on a Friday night? Just think, the Friday night market could become THE end-of-week event, something for lots of people to look forward to.

Also, having the market on a different day than Sunday would also help allleviate on other important problem: TRAFFIC!! How many Waccobbians truly believe that having two markets in close promixity to each other on the same day is not going to be a traffic nightmare?

In my opinion, the Barlow already has a public relations nightmare on their hands, and I'm sure that they don't wish to start a weekly traffic nightmare as well. Now THAT certainly will harm all of their other vendors.

To the powers that be over at the Barlow, I reiterate: Remember the "C" word (community) -- and proceed with another "c" word -- caution.

The only problem with a market on Friday is there is already an established Farmer's Market on Friday in Occidental, which is closer to my neck of the woods. The Friday Occidental market is a great thing, well attended, lots of fun. I always get the patron peppers.

I guess what I don't understand is the reluctance to SHIFT the Sebastopol market to the Barlow and leave the Plaza as a plaza. Clearly, that is what's happening here. The Barlow is a great new venue in town, has more parking, has other attractive amenities like locally run businesses, can accomodate more farmers who wish to sell their crop, and can be a destination for not just local folks but even folks from the hinterlands, like Rohnert Park or Kalamazoo.One final thought, if this forum represents the "progressive" community, why are so many folks so closed minded, so afraid to think outside the box, so afraid of and resistant to change. How progressive is that?

[Rnomistakes]

The only problem with a market on Friday is there is already an established Farmer's Market on Friday in Occidental, which is closer to my neck of the woods. The Friday Occidental market is a great thing, well attended, lots of fun. I always get the patron peppers.

I guess what I don't understand is the reluctance to SHIFT the Sebastopol market to the Barlow and leave the Plaza as a plaza. Clearly, that is what's happening here. The Barlow is a great new venue in town, has more parking, has other attractive amenities like locally run businesses, can accomodate more farmers who wish to sell their crop, and can be a destination for not just local folks but even folks from the hinterlands, like Rohnert Park or Kalamazoo.One final thought, if this forum represents the "progressive" community, why are so many folks so closed minded, so afraid to think outside the box, so afraid of and resistant to change. How progressive is that?

Why not "shift" the wonderful little Friday Occidental market to the bigger Plaza site? Then shift the smaller Sunday Plaza market to the lager Barlow site? Of course I'm being facetious.

I get the feeling that a lot of people in Sebastopol really enjoy their downtown Plaza market the same way that you enjoy the Friday Occidental market. They like the small town feel, local crowd, appreciate the tradition and want to see it continue. I don't understand how it's progressive to fix something so many people feel isn't broken. In a climate of change sometimes "thinking out of the box" is fully appreciating what you already have.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

Please always remember that what you love so much HAS a price, and that is all the farmers and vendors who have been prohibited from selling at the market because of its limited capacity. How do you possibly claim to be community minded and progressive when you are limiting who gets to sell? Don't you see you're limiting access to food? Who gets to grow it? The price they get to charge? The people who get to buy?

And PLEASE answer this: I refer you back to the published public statement made by Paula Downing, posted here by Lani... Why is it that this shift was the greatest thing under the sun for the market and the community UNTIL the Barlow said," Seb. Farmers Market, come on over! Just find a different manager who doesn't come with legal issues still following her?" And those legal issues, my dears (and I know this because it was MY litigation) will continue to exist for the next 5 years because of a caveat SHE INSISTED having in the settlement. Given the support for the shift BEFORE, how do you not say this community furry is about the market and not the rally of Paula Downing and her friends to help her keep her post? Had she not insisted on her caveat she would have still been welcome, Michele Anna Jordan who be writing about how great the move is, the whole thing would have been glorified, and we would never be having this discussion because the original question would never have been posed!!! What has happened here is HER divisiveness and exclusionary policies have backfired and now her friends are trying to do damage control.

Why not "shift" the wonderful little Friday Occidental market to the bigger Plaza site? Then shift the smaller Sunday Plaza market to the lager Barlow site? Of course I'm being facetious.
I get the feeling that a lot of people in Sebastopol really enjoy their downtown Plaza market the same way that you enjoy the Friday Occidental market. They like the small town feel, local crowd, appreciate the tradition and want to see it continue. I don't understand how it's progressive to fix something so many people feel isn't broken. In a climate of change sometimes "thinking out of the box" is fully appreciating what you already have.

[Rnomistakes]

Please always remember that what you love so much HAS a price, and that is all the farmers and vendors who have been prohibited from selling at the market because of its limited capacity. How do you possibly claim to be community minded and progressive when you are limiting who gets to sell? Don't you see you're limiting access to food? Who gets to grow it? The price they get to charge? The people who get to buy?

And PLEASE answer this: I refer you back to the published public statement made by Paula Downing, posted here by Lani... Why is it that this shift was the greatest thing under the sun for the market and the community UNTIL the Barlow said," Seb. Farmers Market, come on over! Just find a different manager who doesn't come with legal issues still following her?" And those legal issues, my dears (and I know this because it was MY litigation) will continue to exist for the next 5 years because of a caveat SHE INSISTED having in the settlement. Given the support for the shift BEFORE, how do you not say this community furry is about the market and not the rally of Paula Downing and her friends to help her keep her post?

Hi Nancy,
I'm sorry that the size of the market prohibits some of the farmers and venders who would like to participate from doing so. Ironically it's the quaintness and the small town feel that makes it special. It's not my intention to limit anyone just as I'm sure it's not your intention to deprive the people who enjoy the Plaza market. If there was a Thursday market added at the Barlow maybe a more inclusive rotation of some sort could be figured out where everyone has the opportunity to sell their wares at both sites.
I'm only representing my point of view Nancy and I believe the desire to maintain the current Plaza market stems from genuine community support. I also feel it would be beneficial for everyone involved to let go of old disagreements and work together in a creative way to serve the needs of everyone involved. I'm sure there are new solutions that will never come to light as long as we focus on old grievances.
I personally would like to see everyone succeed, including the farmers. Maybe if there was a little more of a willingness from all sides to give up a little for the benefit of everyone the changed attitude would pave the way for some real out of the box solutions...

[Nancy M Prebilich]

I hear what you're saying and I agree, but the problem is not that "I won't let go" that keeps old issues alive and prevents us from moving forward, it's the caveat that SHE put in the settlement agreement that keeps it alive every day for the next five years!! In the spirit of letting bygones be bygones, when she wants to amend the settlement agreement and rescind her caveat, I will be very happy to sign on the dotted line!

PS: I LOVED the market at the plaza! Loved my customers and the vendors, and was loved back. But then I was kicked out for no reason (and I have letters supporting that from former board members... Letters that have already gone to the city council) and myself and anyone associated with me is banned for the next five years! I would LOVE to enjoy the "small town feel" tomorrow... but alas, I can not. And you are telling me to just get over it?

Hi Nancy,
I'm sorry that the size of the market prohibits some of the farmers and venders who would like to participate from doing so. Ironically it's the quaintness and the small town feel that makes it special. It's not my intention to limit anyone just as I'm sure it's not your intention to deprive the people who enjoy the Plaza market. If there was a Thursday market added at the Barlow maybe a more inclusive rotation of some sort could be figured out where everyone has the opportunity to sell their wares at both sites.

I'm only representing my point of view Nancy and I believe the desire to maintain the current Plaza market stems from genuine community support. I also feel it would be beneficial for everyone involved to let go of old disagreements and work together in a creative way to serve the needs of everyone involved. I'm sure there are new solutions that will never come to light as long as we focus on old grievances.

I personally would like to see everyone succeed, including the farmers. Maybe if there was a little more of a willingness from all sides to give up a little for the benefit of everyone the changed attitude would pave the way for some real out of the box solutions...