CVS/Chase development proposal

[rossmen]

perhaps writing about the evils of cheap underwear is option number 2. it is interesting to talk to the employees of cvs, who used to work for longs, about their experience of the change. you seem to have a clear understanding that option 2 is tilting at windmills, and option 3 is helpful for your prefered option 4.

i prefer option 2, perhaps because of my imby status, i prefer to bike to get cheap booze and depends for my dad. of course downtown isn't too far away, but the traffic! mostly i'm just trying to get to the other side of town!

the corporate bigbox reality of cvs is an issue here, even if civic planning is a poor tool for envisioning a sustainable world. when you trash allies? its back to hurting those you love the most...

The title of this thread is "CVS/Chase development proposal". While the issues of working conditions in other countries, the power of large corporations, people drinking in store bathrooms, what chain store(s) may be coming to our town, etc. are all important and deserve to be discussed, it looks like we may have taken our eye off of the ball. While the debate continues over issues that have very little, if any, tangible impact on the future of this project, the developers proceed forward with their plans to break ground.

It would seem as if most people would generally fall into one of five categories regarding the proposed CVS/Chase development:

1.) Ardent supporter- there are more than you may think, and they can be formidable, especially with friends in high places.

2.) Ardent opponent to any development in Sebastopol- what are you doing to actively stop the progress of this proposal?
Complaining on this forum is of little impact. While it may feel righteous, it won't stop the bulldozers. Are you supporting
($) the lawsuit against the City Council approval of the project that seeks to have an EIR completed for the project?

3.) Ardent opponent to this specific development in Sebastopol- what are you doing to actively stop the progress of this
proposal and/or bring a realistic, economically-viable alternative up for consideration? Again, complaining here is of little
impact- watch out for the bulldozers. Are you supporting ($) the lawsuit against the City Council?

4.) Cautiously resigned to the high likelihood that this project will get built- what are you doing to work towards maximizing
it's potential aesthetically, functionally and environmentally? At least when it is built, some influence of the community
may be incorporated into it.

5.) Apathetic- otherwise occupied, "whatever...."

None of these positions is "better" or "more correct" than any of the others; we are all different. We must all ask ourselves what we are doing to actively promote our beliefs in a manner that has a tangible impact on this project. I do not believe that either the Sebastopol City Council or Armstrong Development Properties, Inc. will be dissuaded from moving forward as a result of discussions regarding the evils of cheap underwear. They may actually appreciate that we, as a community, appear to be so distracted from their ongoing activities.

In my view, it comes down to taking one of four courses of action: Join the fight to stop it, join the fight to change it to a different/better project, join the fight to make it the best project that it can be, or sit back and watch the wrecking ball, either through apathy or support for the project...

[tommy]

Mark,
While "technically true", your point is naive, in my opinion.

Saying that "people are perfectly capable of making their own choices".. that "it's not up to the City and the planning commission to make consumer decisions for everyone" implies that there is no need for zoning or planning, just let the people decide by shopping or not shopping at a place. This would conceivably end up with a hodge-podge of drive thru fast food places at major intersections, X rated porn shops and marijuana dispensaries near schools, cheap soviet-style apartment buildings, etc. Unfortunately, one of the liabilities of capitalism is that those who want to make money will build the cheapest most profitable crap in the busiest places to maximize their return. Those buildings last for years and years, with people wondering "Why did the government ever allow this junk to be built here?"

Just look at Rohnert Park. The downtown is a Safeway and CVS store. Why do you think Sebastopol has much more appeal, and higher real estate values than Rohnert Park? Unfortunately, this CVS/Chase project would make this town more like Rohnert Park. Not to offend anyone who lives or likes Rohnert Park, however it's obvious it was developed for greed and not the benefit of those who live there.

The function, appeal and character of a town is from good design and planning. This CVS/Chase project nurtures the greed of the owners, developers, and corporate entities of Chase and CVS.

Even if everything you say is the gospel truth your still missing the point. Its not up to the city council and the planning commission to make consumer decisions for everyone. If people agree that the store is a bad actor then they won't shop there and the business will fail. Prohibition doesn't work and its an affront to people who are perfectly capable of making their own choices.

Mark

[dominus]

A CVS move to the Pellini lot will ultimately contribute to a loss of pedestrian traffic and small town ambiance in downtown because "big boxes" have a way of destroying the landscape as well as smaller competition. More big boxes, more cars, more trash in our landfills - the end result is always a "no where place."

As a community, it's important that we come together in a singular vision rooted in morality so that we can create a downtown which will thrive in the next few years and not become a place that people pass through on their way to "somewhere better."

[zenekar]

This sure does sound awful! What country is this in?

You name it -- The "3rd world" is the plantation to exploit for cheap labor for the US (us) to take for granted.

[Peter Schurch]

The Design Review Board will hear the developer's new proposal on the CVS/Chase project again on Wednesday, 10-19-11 at 3:00 at the City Hall. Comments from the audience are welcome.

[scamperwillow]

Thanks for the heads up Peter. Is there any advance preview of what they are proposing?

[Peter Schurch]

Here's the latest on the CVS:

The DRB meeting will be at Parkside School, 7450 Bodega Ave, on Wednessday, Oct 19th at 3:00. It's at a larger venue because more people are expected to come. The final review of the CVS/Chase project won't come up until after 3:30 because there are two smaller items before it on the agenda. You can download the latest CVS/Chase plans from the City's website.

Hope to see lots of people there. Peter

[scamperwillow]

Here's the latest on the CVS:

The DRB meeting will be at Parkside School, 7450 Bodega Ave, on Wednessday, Oct 19th at 3:00. It's at a larger venue because more people are expected to come. The final review of the CVS/Chase project won't come up until after 3:30 because there are two smaller items before it on the agenda. You can download the latest CVS/Chase plans from the City's website.

Hope to see lots of people there. Peter

Here's a link to the staff report: https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/de...t_10.12.11.pdf

I didn't read the entire thing in detail but scanning, I did not see anything about green/energy saving requirements. What about solar and car charging stations and so forth. I hope these will be conditions applied to approval, if approval is to occur.

[1104GT]

CVS and Chase are back at design review this Wednesday, October 19 at 3:00pm. You can read their letter, view plans and see the staff report supporting the project at the link below:

https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/page/special-projects

The overall project design and site plan has not changed in any significant way. They either did not hear the recommendations of the community and the review board, don't care, or think we have forgotten. It is still essentially a suburban pad development plunked into our downtown. They have added some Dwell magazine details, but I am so tired of box shaped buildings with unfinished metal, concrete board and horizontal wood passing as modern architecture I cancelled my subscription months ago. CVS still turns it's back on our most visible intersection and the two buildings are still separated by a parking lot that fronts one of our most important streets. If you agree that we have enough parking lots front-and- center in this town and that buildings downtown should have shop entries, storefront windows and address pedestrians more than cars, you need to show up Wednesday and say so. That's what our General Plan says. Please show up and let them know that any project in our town has to make Sebastopol undeniably better and that bad is not even close to good enough.

Email our design board members, give them your support and thanks for their efforts, let them know your feelings, and show up Wednesday. Our design review board members need our positive support and encouragement in order to make demands of these developers and their architect, so please help them out.

[prana]

I would love to be part of a large turn-out of people representing the desire for downtown Sebastopol to grow with more local stores, not corporate chain retail.
To help get as many people there on Wed. as possible, can someone please post the address where the design review will be held. I don't know where to go, but I want to be there!
Thank you, thank you...

[Barry]

MEETING OF: October 19, 2011
PARK SIDE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL MULTI-PURPOSE ROOM
7450 Bodega Avenue 3:00 p.m.

The full agenda is attached.

I would love to be part of a large turn-out of people representing the desire for downtown Sebastopol to grow with more local stores, not corporate chain retail.
To help get as many people there on Wed. as possible, can someone please post the address where the design review will be held. I don't know where to go, but I want to be there!
Thank you, thank you...

[scamperwillow]

I would love to be part of a large turn-out of people representing the desire for downtown Sebastopol to grow with more local stores, not corporate chain retail.
To help get as many people there on Wed. as possible, can someone please post the address where the design review will be held. I don't know where to go, but I want to be there!
Thank you, thank you...

Prana - scroll down and see several posts with the location.

[Larry Robinson]

Probably the best way to get more local stores is to start one yourself.

[1104GT]

Here are some rough statistics from the current proposal:

80% of this site area is devoted to parking and vehicular traffic (not counting Barnes)
50% of the sidewalk and street frontage faces parking lots and the drive through (not counting Barnes).
15% of the building frontage is dedicated to actual storefronts and building entries.

These numbers are not appropriate for a "downtown" development. I urge everyone to show up tomorrow. An excerpt from my letter to the design review members is below:

"I am disappointed to see that the design of the project has not meaningfully changed since the last review. It is still essentially a suburban, auto-centric, strip type development that has been shoved up to the street. It's difficult to point to any aspect of it that relates to our downtown or stands out as pedestrian friendly. I attached a diagram of downtown that identifies areas that I feel are pedestrian friendly or not. When viewed in this context, it become apparent this development is much more like Rite Aid, Safeway and the Redwood Marketplace than it is like Main Street.

I think it is premature to discuss building architecture and materials when the site design is unacceptable, but the buildings seem to draw inspiration only from the industrial scaled buildings and nothing from the human scaled buildings downtown. I think this is a mistake when dealing with large buildings without setbacks. Without storefronts and shop windows, the proposed CVS building is too cold, hard and inhuman for this prominent location. Ads and displays in the "windows" and boulder art won't help. Chase has oddly been reduced to a rusty metal box with wood.

I travel to other communities often and know good projects happen in downtowns. We need something good to happen here."

Hope to see lots of people tomorrow.

[scamperwillow]

If you can't make it to the meeting today, send an email to the DRB - and do it soon so they have time to read it before the meeting at 3:00. And be constructive - not attacking. Good ideas will be listened to. Whining and attacks will not.
DRB appointees:
Peter Schurch [email protected]
Zachary Douch [email protected]
Bob Beauchamp [email protected]
Lynn Deedler [email protected]
Ron Basso [email protected]
Alternate Lindsay Masset [email protected]

[John Eder]

I have to say that I was pretty disappointed that so few people showed up at the October 19 Design Review Board meeting, where the CVS/Chase project was discussed. I realize that a 3 PM meeting is a work conflict for many people, but there were only about 4-5 people in attendance who spoke against the project, and an equal number who voiced their approval (mostly business owners). There is a perception of widespread opposition to this project, but you wouldn't know it, based on what you see and hear. As this process moves forward, and it will continue progressing through to approval, most likely, you need to make your opinion known. Not an attack speech, or a "all big companies suck" dialogue, but convincing, heartfelt expressions of why this project, as currently proposed, would devastate downtown Sebastopol. It will be coming before the Design Review Board again, and, most likely, the City Council. Get informed- look at the plans, read the staff reports. Just saying, "I hate it" isn't enough. And, just as importantly, send e-mails, letters or faxes and attend the meetings- stay informed. Ignorance or apathy only hands our town to the CVS/Chase developer on a plate, kind of like being conquered while we slept.



Design Review Board Members:
Peter Schurch [email protected]
Zachary Douch [email protected]
Bob Beauchamp [email protected]
Lynn Deedler [email protected]
Ron Basso [email protected] (not participating due to financial conflict of interest)
Lindsay Massey [email protected]


City Council Members:
Mayor Guy Wilson [email protected]
Vice Mayor Michael Kyes [email protected]
Kathleen Shaffer [email protected] (the project's most ardent cheerleader)
Sarah Glade Gurney [email protected] (the lone dissenting vote on the overturn of the Planning Commission's denial)
Patrick Slayter [email protected]


It is not too soon to let all of these people know (and you should copy all of them) what you think about this project, but you will get more attention and respect if you do it in an informed, intelligent manner. Pay attention to when the meetings are scheduled- it is all listed on the City of Sebastopol website. Alternatively, call the Planning Department at (707) 823-6167 and ask to be contacted by email whenever any CVS/Chase-related meeting are going to be conducted. If a really crappy project gets built, it will be no one's fault but ours.


Shown below is a letter that I submitted to the project architect following Wednesday's Design Review Board meeting:

[Sara S]

I tried to see your letter, but it said "deleted." Granted, I'm pretty lame on the computer, but I'd like to see it. Since I'm new to Sebastopol (after 36 years west of Cazadero) I'm at a place where these issues matter more to me than they did when I just read about them in the paper or on Wacco.

Sara Scott

[John Eder]

Sarah-

Try again- I did delete the letter (briefly) to edit out my signature block, but then I re-posted the modified letter. It works on my computer. Perhaps we just crossed in our separate activities.

[The Owl]

I have to say that I was pretty disappointed that so few people showed up at the October 19 Design Review Board meeting, where the CVS/Chase project was discussed. I realize that a 3 PM meeting is a work conflict for many people, but there were only about 4-5 people in attendance who spoke against the project, and an equal number who voiced their approval (mostly business owners). ...

I was wondering why they would schedule something as important as that in the middle of what is for most people, a work day? Kind of ensures a low turn out, I would think.

[Peter Schurch]

Letter to the Editor, Sonoma West:

CVS and the Design Review Board

The DRB continued to hear the CVS/Chase project after nearly rejecting it at last Wednesday’s meeting. The Design Review Board had requested specific site changes in July. The Developer came back last Wednesday (10/19/11) with a nearly identical site plan and firmly stated that many changes weren’t going to happen. Apparently his clients are frustrated with the City’s demands. I hope the Sonoma West will choose to cover the next DRB meeting. It could be crucial. Several areas need to be addressed including pedestrian features of the project, traffic flow into and out of the project and the two buildings’ architectural qualities. This is a very important project situated the heart of Sebastopol’s downtown and will have a very big impact on the look and feel of the downtown as well as traffic congestion. There are very reasonable concerns. I hope that the Sonoma West will deem it newsworthy and that more people will become aware of this important upcoming meeting at the DRB. If the DRB does not approve the project, the Developer may appeal it to the City Council. What a show down that would be.

Peter Schurch, DRB member

[Butterfly]

Well, I'm not too late to show up... when is the next DRB meeting? Sounds like there's room for more input on this project. I certainly agree with the general tenor of comments. I'm glad the developer is getting tired; that indicates to me they are more interested in the bottom line and not "reforming" and upgrading their development prospectus and design to fit what Sebastopol residents want. If so, good riddance. We'd rather have quality and good business prospects for that spot than, bad, slap-stick, made to fit "natural" design (reminds me of pre-fab construction criteria, with natural meaning it's got wood and windows in it), and, yes, HUGE — the traffic volume and traffic flow / parking lot design aspects are horrendous and you've got to have acrobats for architects to make it work with "drive-through" business. Better to throw out the whole thing and start over. Let's put in what we want there — bye-bye CVS Pharmacy and Chase. Stay where you are and by-the-way, do your good citizen duty and make Redwood Village Shopping Center a better place to do business and customer friendly. These days, these two corporate entities need to do good citizen duties in these "Occupy" times. Do good, like the little girl's sign says at "Occupy Santa Rosa".

Our town has tooted its clarion call for what is important to us: preserving the small town character of Sebastopol = walkability and core downtown values, as in local area business character. Chamber of Commerce could go with that. Why not. Local money, circulating locally in our economy is good business. Get with the program, Chamber of Commerce; this is what democracy looks like!

[John Eder]

The developer is not getting tired- they are getting pissed. I hate to sound like the harbinger of doom, but is less likely that CVS/Chase will "get tired and go away" than they will ramp up the pressure and play hardball with the DRB and City Council. They have plenty of muscle and economic weight to throw around, and they are used to getting their way. Also, Sebastopol has profoundly non-existent design guidelines, which free up developers to do pretty much whatever they please, without any recourse for our town. They know this, their lawyers know this, and our City Attorney knows this. It is naive to think that, as citizens, we can wear them down to the point that they will throw in the towel and go away. I know that they have expended a significant amount of money so far, and will likely not withdraw without a considerable fight. So, please, do not delude yourself- if pushed, the City Council- the ultimate decision makers for this project- will roll over if pressured enough. I have seen this happen before in a similarly-sized town in pursuit of the almighty buck, and fearful of litigation. The developer for this project showed their hand at the DRB meeting, saying, essentially, that they were unwilling to negotiate on some aspects of this project. These aspects, ironically, were the ones that the majority of the DRB found objectionable enough to deny the project. It is our job to support and encourage the members of both the DRB and City Council to stand firm, to not cave to corporate demands and compromise our town's values and character. Yes, there is room for compromise, but at all times, our town leaders need to remain in control of the process, so that the interests and future of Sebastopol can be protected. We need to let them know, in every way possible- by email, letter, fax, phone call, personal appearance- what we think, what we want, and how it is their duty, as our elected representatives, not to sell us out. The effort of each person is crucial at this point- everyone of you matter, and it is important that you stand up and do what is required of you.

[Sara S]

Let's occupy this corner! Make it close to home and personal!

[scamperwillow]

I was wondering why they would schedule something as important as that in the middle of what is for most people, a work day? Kind of ensures a low turn out, I would think.

Folks could have shown up at 4:30 or 5 and still gotten in on the public hearing.....

[oliviathunderkitty]

Folks could have shown up at 4:30 or 5 and still gotten in on the public hearing.....

A lot of people, especially those unfamiliar with such meetings, likely wouldn't know this. I wonder if there is a way, next time, to tweet the time or some such. It seems that might be a very effective use of social media. Personally, if I hear there's a 3 p.m. meeting, I think I need to show up at 3 p.m. and would be hesitant to arrive two hours later.

[scamperwillow]

A lot of people, especially those unfamiliar with such meetings, likely wouldn't know this. I wonder if there is a way, next time, to tweet the time or some such. It seems that might be a very effective use of social media. Personally, if I hear there's a 3 p.m. meeting, I think I need to show up at 3 p.m. and would be hesitant to arrive two hours later.

Yes, this is where becoming a student of such meetings and really paying attention comes in handy. Peter had posted that there were a few items before this item so it probably wouldn't come up until 3:30 - which is what happened. Then after the staff and developer reports, they adjourned to a break and then another item (which I found strange) at about 4:30. So I had to leave at that point, but I'm guessing the public hearing didn't start until at least 5:00. Tweets or facebook posts would be useful for this IF people were actually looking and watching for such posts.

[scamperwillow]

Peter, could you give us a brief update on what happened at DRB, what action was taken if any and what happens next?
Thanks,
Marty

Letter to the Editor, Sonoma West:

CVS and the Design Review Board

The DRB continued to hear the CVS/Chase project after nearly rejecting it at last Wednesday’s meeting. The Design Review Board had requested specific site changes in July. The Developer came back last Wednesday (10/19/11) with a nearly identical site plan and firmly stated that many changes weren’t going to happen. Apparently his clients are frustrated with the City’s demands. I hope the Sonoma West will choose to cover the next DRB meeting. It could be crucial. Several areas need to be addressed including pedestrian features of the project, traffic flow into and out of the project and the two buildings’ architectural qualities. This is a very important project situated the heart of Sebastopol’s downtown and will have a very big impact on the look and feel of the downtown as well as traffic congestion. There are very reasonable concerns. I hope that the Sonoma West will deem it newsworthy and that more people will become aware of this important upcoming meeting at the DRB. If the DRB does not approve the project, the Developer may appeal it to the City Council. What a show down that would be.

Peter Schurch, DRB member

[scamperwillow]

Peter, could you give us a brief update on what happened at DRB, what action was taken if any and what happens next?
Thanks,
Marty

I just heard this is coming back to DRB on Nov. 16 - is this true?

[Peter Schurch]

The next Design Review Board hearing of the CVS/Chase project will be Wednesday 11/16/11 at 4:00 at the Veterans Building. The CVS proposal should start around 4:15 with slide shows by the developer.

[Dianala]

The Design Review Board will hear the developer's new proposal on the CVS/Chase project again on Wednesday, 10-19-11 at 3:00 at the City Hall. Comments from the audience are welcome.

Has there been any other proposals for that site? I think the best way to change this up is for a new developer to propose an alternative plan that provides a more appropriate type of business for Sebastopol. There is a strong trend to "buy US made goods" and a store on the East Coast has made a name for itself. It is called "Made in the USA" and now has 300 goods/products available for sale. People are coming from all over to buy there, or just come to see it. What a novelity! Local investors, where are you?