Cities banning outdoor cats!

[daynurse]

A war has been declared on free-roaming cats and the killing has started.
The existing network of feline protectors has been overwhelmed by government agencies influenced by an insidious propaganda campaign. The principals of The Feline Resistance! believe that in addition to education, it is now necessary to empower local cat advocates with the capability to expose the lies and stop the killing . . .
In 1997, the American Bird Conservancy (ABC), a well financed special interest group, fired the first shot in the war against felines with their "Cats Indoors!" campaign. After a slow start, the effort generated substantial results in 2003. The primary purpose of their lobbying campaign is the elimination of all outdoorcats- strays, ferals and pets. Indeed, they specifically recommend that homeless and lost cats should be captured and sent to local shelters, knowing full well that most will be killed.

As of today, the American Bird Conservancy's Cats Indoors! campaign has successfully influenced federal, state and local governments with misinformation and extrapolated data about the "devastating effects" free-roaming felines have on "millions" of birds and "billions" of small mammals.

I got it from: The Feline Resistance

Posted for Marcelle Guy Petalumaferalcats.com

Petaluma Animal Shelter presently traps and kills feral cats in a "No Kill" shelter. A couple of years ago, 400 cats were "euthanized".
A new ordinance to correct this is on the calendar for October of this year. Let the city council know your feelings. CityofPetaluma.net

[Clancy]

I'm up early to take a feral cat I trapped to Forgotten Felines for neutering. Would you like to adopt him? He's a beautiful Abby Tabby.

If you can't adopt him, what do you propose we do with the thousands of other cats in the county that can't be adopted either?

[cosmiccorn]

It is the unfortunate truth that literally millions of cats and dogs (both purebred and mongrel) are killed every year simply for want of a home.
Although there will always be irresponsible pet caretakers, we can help reduce this unnecessary suffering by spaying and neutering all companion animals. I know that some feel compelled to breed their companion animals because they are "special", but what is not special about the unlucky ones who are killed before their time because there are too many animals and not enough homes.
On the note of 'responsible breeding', I think there are those that are more responsible than others. This said, one criteria I would expect of a 'responsible' breeder, is that they agree to take an animal back should the adoptee not work out in the adopting family's home.

For additional information on how to reduce the pet overpopulation problem in California, please check this link: SB 250 The Pet Responsibility Act - Official Website.

I'm up early to take a feral cat I trapped to Forgotten Felines for neutering. Would you like to adopt him? He's a beautiful Abby Tabby.

If you can't adopt him, what do you propose we do with the thousands of other cats in the county that can't be adopted either?

[someguy]

Thats crazy that this bird society it trying to ban cats from the outdoors. Are birds inherently more important than cats? Cats belong outdoors, and just because they dont have a humans home to share doesn't mean that they should be killed. I think people forget that these are animals that know how to survive outdoors. Let cats live where ever they choose, and dont kill stray cats or neuter domestic cats. Does anyone know the logic behind killing and/or mutilating these animals?

[Clancy]

...Let cats live where ever they choose, and dont kill stray cats or neuter domestic cats. Does anyone know the logic behind killing and/or mutilating these animals?

Domestic cats don't choose to live short brutal lives, and that's what happens to homeless cats.

The logic behind euthanasia and spaying and neutering is that there are already thousands of cats without homes, right here in Sonoma County. What do you propose doing with them? If your answer is to put them up in shelters, with little prospect for homes, what do we do with the several thousand cats that will follow within months?

There are simply far more cats than homes for them.

ALL cats and dogs should be spayed and neutered until we get this animal holocaust under control.

[someguy]

What do you propose doing with them? If your answer is to put them up in shelters, with little prospect for homes, what do we do with the several thousand cats that will follow within months?

ALL cats and dogs should be spayed and neutered until we get this animal holocaust under control.

What I was attempting to say is that cats do not need a human household to call home. They can survive very well in the wild. Not every cat needs to be domesticated or euthanized, its that simple.

[Clancy]

What I was attempting to say is that cats do not need a human household to call home. They can survive very well in the wild. Not every cat needs to be domesticated or euthanized, its that simple.

I respectfully disagree.

Unless they were raised from kittenhood by an actual feral cat, they can not do well in the wild, and most of the cats we're talking about are not feral, and are not living in the wild.

They're scared, starving, abandoned domestic cats, being hit by cars, dying from disease and infection and exposure. The lucky ones are brought to animal shelters by their 'owners', rather than being dropped off on a country road somewhere. And they are abandoned by the thousands, every year.

So what do we do?

[Gary]

I can understand people getting upset about euthanizing cats, since they represent loving pets for many people. But their effect on native birds and small mammals is tremendous. I looked at the Feline Resistance website to see their explanation of why the American Bird Conservancy (ABC) is "spreading lies", but it was not clearly argued. I would say look at this page from the ABC to get a good understanding of the effects of cats on wildlife. This isn't just a case of differing opinions. Even PETA is on board with this.

Are birds inherently more important than cats? Cats belong outdoors

I guess this part is ultimately a matter of opinion, but the ecological perspective is that domestic cats were introduced here and their cozy relationship with humans has allowed their numbers to grow higher than they would if they were all truly wild. So slowly they have becoming a massive population of skilled hunters that continue to reduce native bird populations. I like cats, and have 2 adopted and spayed strays, but they do not "belong" here anymore than roof rats, snails, glassy-winged sharpshooters, light brown apple moths, and other "pests" that are exterminated, we just happen to like them.

[someguy]

It seems that Clancy thinks that these cats cannot survive on their own in the wild, while Gary says that these cats are hunting and killing mucho native birds (very much surviving).

You both can't be right. And yet it seems that these two points are the most common reasons for euthanisation and neutering even though they are contradicting statements.

I think of this issue like I do about our economy. People have already screwed this situation up (by domesticating animals and letting them breed uncontrollably, and also racking up debt uncontrollably) and to fix the situation we people are scared to let nature correct our problem. So we euthanize and we neuter and spend more money (to "fix" the economy) which never actually solves the problem. But rather what we should do is let the cats free and let nature dictate who lives and dies and let the economy plummet so it can actually correct itself.

It's really cruel to keep a cat indoors all day log. Its like keeping a bird in a cage. That is NOT COOL. Just my opinion.

[Clancy]

That domestic cats kill lots of birds yet can't survive on their own is not a contradiction, and neither point is why cats are euthanized by the millions in this country.

May I suggest you ask for a tour of any of our animal shelters, and take a look at the cats you think would survive on their own. Ask the staff, and the volunteers, why that's an absurd notion.

It seems that Clancy thinks that these cats cannot survive on their own in the wild, while Gary says that these cats are hunting and killing mucho native birds (very much surviving).

You both can't be right. And yet it seems that these two points are the most common reasons for euthanisation and neutering even though they are contradicting statements.

I think of this issue like I do about our economy. People have already screwed this situation up (by domesticating animals and letting them breed uncontrollably, and also racking up debt uncontrollably) and to fix the situation we people are scared to let nature correct our problem. So we euthanize and we neuter and spend more money (to "fix" the economy) which never actually solves the problem. But rather what we should do is let the cats free and let nature dictate who lives and dies and let the economy plummet so it can actually correct itself.

It's really cruel to keep a cat indoors all day log. Its like keeping a bird in a cage. That is NOT COOL. Just my opinion.

[someguy]

That domestic cats kill lots of birds yet can't survive on their own is not a contradiction, and neither point is why cats are euthanized by the millions in this country.

May I suggest you ask for a tour of any of our animal shelters, and take a look at the cats you think would survive on their own. Ask the staff, and the volunteers, why that's an absurd notion.

Well if a great amount of birds are severally put at risk by cats being in the environment then I would absolutely say that the cats are thriving.

Also I can share an experience I had once when I was a teenager. My cat Missy who's front claws were ripped out so that my parents couches would remain intact got outside one night during a thunderstorm. After a week or two we considered her a dead duck (cat). Turns out after 6 months she was found under someones front porch 35 miles away from my families house very much alive with her purple collar and bell still assembled. She survived just fine. Mind you she never grew up with her mother (we got her when she was a handful of weeks old from an animal shelter) so she never learned those sharp hunting skills supposedly required to survive.

I think cats are natural survivors, and a part of our environment. If the birds cant handle cats in their environment they'll go somewhere else. If the cats cant handle the environment they're in, then they'll die naturally or move on someplace else. Its evolution in action, just with human intervention screwing things up. But nature will balance things out if the humans just take a step aside.

[Clancy]

Frankly, I'm speechless. I shouldn't be, after spending years working with cats and the people who misunderstand them, but the depth of public ignorance about this subject is still shocking.

Try googling 'domestic vs feral cat life expectancy'. Here, I'll make it easy for you...
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Well if a great amount of birds are severally put at risk by cats being in the environment then I would absolutely say that the cats are thriving.

Also I can share an experience I had once when I was a teenager. My cat Missy who's front claws were ripped out so that my parents couches would remain intact got outside one night during a thunderstorm. After a week or two we considered her a dead duck (cat). Turns out after 6 months she was found under someones front porch 35 miles away from my families house very much alive with her purple collar and bell still assembled. She survived just fine. Mind you she never grew up with her mother (we got her when she was a handful of weeks old from an animal shelter) so she never learned those sharp hunting skills supposedly required to survive.

I think cats are natural survivors, and a part of our environment. If the birds cant handle cats in their environment they'll go somewhere else. If the cats cant handle the environment they're in, then they'll die naturally or move on someplace else. Its evolution in action, just with human intervention screwing things up. But nature will balance things out if the humans just take a step aside.

[nurturetruth]

I have had my 3 kitty children for 8 years now....they are outdoor/indoor at free will and only once in 8 years have one of them ever caught a bird...
and it wasn't for food .

I live in a place where I have bird feeders up everywhere and birds even eat the bird food that is on the ground....with the cats laying in the shade close by . We co-exist.

I think cats are great asset to have as outdoor pets especially for gardeners for the gopher control ........


:kitty:

[someguy]

Frankly, I'm speechless. I shouldn't be, after spending years working with cats and the people who misunderstand them, but the depth of public ignorance about this subject is still shocking.

Try googling 'domestic vs feral cat life expectancy'. Here, I'll make it easy for you...
domestic vs feral cat life expectancy - Google Search

Usually when people say 'frankly they are speechless' they cease any further attempt at speaking. Google it.

[Clancy]

Usually when people say the frankly they are speechless they cease any further attempt at speaking. Google it.

You do have a point. What I meant to say, is that I don't know how to deal with such obstinate, willful ignorance, especially when it involves innocent animals.

Cats on their own average less than two years life. Domestic cats average 15 to 18 years life.

[someguy]

You do have a point. What I meant to say, is that I don't know how to deal with such obstinate, willful ignorance.

Good point. Maybe you got something to work on?

[Clancy]

Good point. Maybe you got something to work on?

Yes, how do I convey to you that outdoor cats, on their own, live on average less than two years, when you're so full of yourself you have no room to learn anything?

I've tried being polite, I've explained the facts, I've even linked you to the information. What does it take?

[someguy]

Yes, how do I convey to you that outdoor cats, on their own, live on average less than two years, when you're so full of yourself you have no room to learn anything?

I've tried being polite, I've explained the facts, I've even linked you to the information. What does it take?

Sorry I meant to say maybe I have something to work on.... Not you.... Sorry... I read your links to google. Your right feral cats live a shorter life. I don't know what that proves exactly. I never doubted that. But what I am saying is that a short good life (outdoors) is much better than a long shitty life (indoors).

[Clancy]

Sorry I meant to say maybe I have something to work on.... Not you.... Sorry... I read your links to google. Your right feral cats live a shorter life. I don't know what that proves exactly.

Thank you. If you re-read my posts in this thread, you'll see what it proves.

[someguy]

Thank you. If you re-read my posts in this thread, you'll see what it proves.

Ok so I re-read your posts and this is what I gathered.

You say that homeless cats live a bad short life and there are thousands of them right here in our county. We as a county don't know what to do with them because we dont want them dieing in the streets. Meanwhile, domestic cats are incapable of surviving outdoors without a domestic provider (human home). You provide evidence supporting your notion that domestic cats survive longer than wild (feral) cats. I understand.

My position is that domestic cats are capable of surviving without a permanent domestic provider. I gave you an example of my parents cat who survived for 6 months without claws and a bell around her neck. I think that supports my claim pretty well. I also say that a cat who is put in its natural environment will live a happier and yes, even a shorter life than that of a domestic cat. And the reason why I say it's better for a cat to live free is because that is what cats want. Its obvious that every cat loves to go outdoors and attack mice and snakes, and its even more obvious when you have kittens. Ive seen a few in my days.

Also, this has more to do with Gary's argument but he says that the cats are killing off native birds in the county and they need to be controlled. I say that this is a problem that man has created (domesticating too many animals and tipping the scale (cat) for our environment) and man won't be able to fix it. Were just creating another law and another barrier between fixing the real problem at hand. I say we let nature correct this problem and not more suppression of these kittens. Because it really is a shame to lock up a kitten in a house all day long.

[Hotspring 44]

1 I was born and raised with cats. When I was born, my mother was a professional breeder. My mother eventually quit professionally breeding cats, because she had me to take care of and my father became very ill. There was not enough money or time for her to spend with the cats that she needed to so she responsibly sold and or placed them to other breeders.

2 cats have an incredible reproduction rate.

3 most people don't know that a female cat of certain breeds can get pregnant within six months of being born. Sometimes even less!

4 most people that think they don't have enough money to spay and neuter all of their kittens in a particular litter also don't realize that if they spay their females first before they neuter the males that the first wave of spaying and neutering would cost less, as well as prevent an unintended pregnancy in their animals.

5 some women unfortunately disagree with this because the cats are female that get spayed. So they say something like that’s chauvinistic! But it's not chauvinistic it's realistic. Example: if I had four kittens and two were male and two were female and could only afford to get two of them fixed. I can tell you for sure it would be the females first, then the males next; hopefully sooner than later, before they start spraying! I know, even neutered males spray, but it doesn't smell so bad as it does after they get mature, and neutered male cats don't usually do it as much either.

6 The females are the ones that get pregnant, not the males; is the main reason it's just logical not chauvinistic.

7 Completely banning cats being outdoors is draconian, ridiculous, and uneducated. Also almost impossible and unenforceable.

8 The vast majority of cats, particularly the females whether they are spayed or not are very efficient hunters.

9 Cats generally prefer catching birds than anything else.

10 Cats also catch and eat lizards, some of which makes the cats ill.

11 Cats also eat rodents, like mice and rats, which carry diseases that humans can get.

12 because we people by killing foxes, coyotes, raccoons, skunks, snakes, and indigenous Wild Cats have put nature at an imbalance in the first place.

13 Also us humans introduced invasive species like rats from China that came here on ships.

14 If it weren't for cats, we would be inundated by invasive, disease spreading rodents like the rats from China and other such species.

15 It would kill many birds of prey to use poison on those same rodents that the cats kill now.

16 Also, what about the ravens? They invade nests of many species of smaller birds. Is that nature taking its course? Or do humans somehow have some sort of a connection with that phenomenon? Should we really put the whole blame on cats? I don't think so.

17 There are definitely specific geographic areas that cats should be kept contained within a house or a small yard that they can't get out of, so that endangered populations of birds and other endangered species can survive.

All that being said, there are just too many irresponsible, ignorant people that do not succeed in keeping the cat and dog populations to a reasonable level, unfortunately.

I think that schools should have field trips to the animal shelters as a comprehensive social studies requirement. I am not sure of exactly what grade, but I'm thinking; Maybe 8th grade?

Generally speaking cats are instinctive survivors. They do not necessarily have to have a mother cat, train them how to hunt. But that does not mean that there is any certainty that they will survive and thrive just because they know how to hunt.

It is not only cruel to abandon a specific individual animal to that particular animal; it is also a despicable thing to do to your neighbors and the environment! It's kind of like if you don't want your cat or dog, what makes you think I do or anybody else does? Just because it can survive in an abandoned state of being does not mean it should be forced to do so!

I think bringing an animal to an animal shelter where it is likely to be euthanized is a form of abandonment.
It really freaks me out to imagine what it must feel like for an animal that trusts a human to take care of it when it ends up in one of those shelters or abandoned on the street or some back road somewhere. That's really F*****!!! :cussing:
For someone to think that they could just drop an animal off and in essence abandon it somewhere just because they don't want it or think they can no longer take care of it; it's disturbing and heartbreaking to anybody who has a conscience to say the least.

Unfortunately, there is an extreme overpopulation of domestic cats and dogs.
And the real question still remains; what to do to prevent it from continuing?
This sounds kind of ridiculous to some people, but; should we consider licensing our cats, like we do our dogs?
What about spay and neuter laws and requirements for spaying and neutering certain breeds of cats like there are for certain breeds of dogs?
Do I hear cat chauvinist’s crying foul?
No, seriously though, if people were required to register their cats like we are our dogs, they would be more likely to be conscientious of the cat overpopulation phenomena.

Can cats be microchiped like some dogs are?

more later; maybe.
Hotspring 44.

[SocialJustice]

Domestic cats don't choose to live short brutal lives, and that's what happens to homeless cats.

The logic behind euthanasia and spaying and neutering is that there are already thousands of cats without homes, right here in Sonoma County. What do you propose doing with them? If your answer is to put them up in shelters, with little prospect for homes, what do we do with the several thousand cats that will follow within months?

There are simply far more cats than homes for them.

ALL cats and dogs should be spayed and neutered until we get this animal holocaust under control.

Original Message ----------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 200911:58:09 -0700
From: "Jennifer Kirchner" [email protected]
To: Dear Mayor Torliatt, Petaluma Council members and City Manager,

As a result of a collaboration with representatives from Save our Ferals, Petaluma FeralCats.com, Forgotten Felines of Sonoma County and concerned feral cat caretakers and Petaluma residents, we are pleased to present you a proactive program and ordinance that will save Petaluma taxpayers money.

In April, several of us met with Mayor Torliatt and voiced our concerns regarding the recent proposed changes to the City of Petaluma feral cat ordinance. Out of this meeting, we made a pledge to the Mayor to work together in crafting a revised version of the ordinance that we believe will work for all stakeholders and the City. After consulting with Lieutenant Mike Cook and meeting numerous times as a group, we came up with the attached revised ordinance as well as an Implementation Plan if/when it is approved.

Appreciating the City’s investment in ShollenbergerPark, the new Wastewater Facility and a common concern for all animals and wildlife, you’ll note that the ordinance includes no feeding of feral cats inside Shollenberger or on any of the wetlands in the City of Petaluma. Understanding a city ordinance cannot conflict with a General Plan the ordinance contains the City of Petaluma General Plan 2025 wetlands definition.

Working with a registered 501c(3) organization and other concerned Petaluma residents to reduce the number of feral cats, the time and resources used by Animal Services and Animal Control Officers to uphold the current ordinance should be greatly reduced. Not having to trap, take in and euthanize hundreds of feral cats a year is not only humane but will free up Animal Services time for animal adoptions, volunteer recruitment and the other important services they currently provide the community.

There are many Petaluma residents waiting in the wings who have offered to volunteer, educate and raise funds once this money saving, life saving, and forward thinking ordinance is passed. We also have a bilingual gentleman who has offered to do outreach in the Latino community. We all look forward to implementing the program, are available to answer any questions you may have and are anxious to hear when the ordinance will be on the agenda.

Respectfully,

Jennifer Kirchner Marcelle Guy
Forgotten Felines of SonomaCounty PetalumaFeralCats.com

Susan Simons
Forgotten Felines of SonomaCounty

Diane Reilly Torres

Pat Boyd Save Our Feral Cats

Angela Zumsteg 2000-04 Animal Services Advisory Committee Member

Attached

July 13, 2009


Lieutenant Mike Cook
City of Petaluma Police Department
969 Petaluma Blvd. North
Petaluma, CA 94952-6320

Dear Mike,

In order to help facilitate the completion of the feral cat ordinance, and knowing that your schedule is very tight, we have taken the changes and additions discussed in our meeting with you, and drafted a revised version of the ordinance that we are comfortable with. It includes the rewriting of the first paragraph, per your instruction, outlines a colony tracking system and yearly assessment for success, and identifies areas where the living of feral cats is inappropriate to the nature of the area.

We feel that this reflects the community’s belief that feral cats need to be addressed in a cost effective, humane and caring manner and that caregivers of the cats are good, compassionate residents of Petaluma who deserve the respect and thanks of the City.

Thank you for working with us on this. Sincerely,

Jennifer Kirchner
Forgotten Felines of Sonoma County

Susan Simons
Forgotten Felines of Sonoma County

Marcelle Guy
PetalumaFeralCats.com

Diane Reilly Torres

Angela Zumsteg
2000-04 Animal Services Advisory Committee Member

Pat Boyd
Save Our Feral Cats

[ChristineL]

When one of my neighbors moved away leaving 18 not neutered cats behind, I can tell you they were not doing a good job of surviving...some manage to hunt well and eat, others don't. After two weeks, over three quarters were underweight, all the young ones were so flea infested that their gums were losing color, they would have died if I hadn't Advantaged the whole lot.

My cats, especially the blind one, would be surprised to know they are living long miserable lives because they don't go out. They're playful, purr a lot, love to chase the Bichon around, and don't even try to go out when the front door opens, as a matter of fact two of them run as far into the house as they can get when the front door opens.

Outside, cats get run over, catch diseases, die of flea anemia, and usually don't hunt well enough to survive. Those that do survive are often good at begging and eat outdoor pets' food, or get people to give them food, or manage to go through garbage. As for well fed cats, they often kill for sport.

It's also not particularly good for people's gardens...I can vouch for that. Cat urine is murder on plants. I have three neighbors who between them contribute six cats to roam my property, dig, urinate, leave corpses, etc. No, I don't need them to control the outdoor rodent population, the raccoons do a masterful job of that. Unfortunately, cats cannot be confined to one property...I can see the point of view that cats should not be outside.

[Clancy]

By coincidence, I saw Jennifer Kirchner just today, when I took a feral cat in to be neutered. I'm not sure what the point of your post is, would you mind stating it?

Original Message ----------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 200911:58:09 -0700
From: "Jennifer Kirchner" [email protected]
To: Dear Mayor Torliatt, Petaluma Council members and City Manager,

As a result of a collaboration with representatives from Save our Ferals, Petaluma FeralCats.com, Forgotten Felines of Sonoma County and concerned feral cat caretakers and Petaluma residents, we are pleased to present you a proactive program and ordinance that will save Petaluma taxpayers money.
...

[seagreen]

FYI:
1. The American Bird Conservancy uses our tax dollars to promote their "cats indoors campaign. The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation ("NFWF directs public conservation dollars to the most pressing environmental needs"....quote off their website).
2. The complaints that cats kill birds and other wildlife. Check out the CatBib, tested and shown to stop 81% of cats from catching any birds. (not all cats catch birds). Recommended by Audubon, but the American Bird Conservancy will never tell you about it.
3. The one problem with cats people must address are the abandoned, feral cats that have not been spayed or neutered. Every year out neighborhoods are inundated with kittens, that people either try to give away or abandon. That is what has to stop, not banishing cats or caging them in our homes. It's a people problem not a cat problem.

Thanks for listening.

[ChristineL]

I'm sorry, but the neighbors' cats wrecking my garden is not a "people" problem...the stench of cat poop in parts of my yard is not a "people" problem, or am I supposed to spend money cat-proofing my yard so my neighbors can let their cats roam free? I actually adopted an "outdoor" cat that was abandoned when neighbors way down the road moved (she sleeps in the store-room on pillows and blankets and gets lots of love) as she's territorial and chases off other cats, but I shouldn't have to do that.

Yes, I do agree the major problem is uncontrolled breeding.

FYI:
1. The American Bird Conservancy uses our tax dollars to promote their "cats indoors campaign. The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation ("NFWF directs public conservation dollars to the most pressing environmental needs"....quote off their website).
2. The complaints that cats kill birds and other wildlife. Check out the CatBib, tested and shown to stop 81% of cats from catching any birds. (not all cats catch birds). Recommended by Audubon, but the American Bird Conservancy will never tell you about it.
3. The one problem with cats people must address are the abandoned, feral cats that have not been spayed or neutered. Every year out neighborhoods are inundated with kittens, that people either try to give away or abandon. That is what has to stop, not banishing cats or caging them in our homes. It's a people problem not a cat problem.

Thanks for listening.

[Hotspring 44]

Rabbits and deer roam free. The only way to keep them out of the garden 100% of the time is to put up a fence that they can't get through, or jump over in the case of a deer.
1. Fact of life, cats poop!
2. I think that your way of thinking; “cat proofing” your garden so your “neighbors can let their cats roam free” is a moot point, simply because your neighbors are already allowing their cats to roam free.
3. Even if those neighbors moved (or not) and took all of their cats with them, you could still get new/more neighbors and you could end up having more cats pooping in your garden/yard anyway.
4. You have a lot more control over your garden when you have adequate fencing.
5. I think the least expensive thing for you to do, both socially and financially is to cat proof your garden. Lawyers and feuds with your neighbors are much more costly than fencing. I don't think animal control would have much of a say the laws being what they are, unless there are too many legally speaking. I don't know what the limit is, but I think its four cats per household. Besides, you may not be into using animal control authorities anyway. I wouldn’t be.
6. I do agree wholeheartedly; cat poop is a bad stench, it's a horrible thing to have to put up with in a small garden! A small amount of it isn't so bad if the trade-off is that they kill the moles and gophers. But when there's an overpopulation problem of cats and cat crap all over the place; it becomes a negative rather than a positive.
7. I had to spend lots of money, rabbit and dear proofing my gardens in the past. It was worth it. When I had trouble with gophers or moles, I would put a cat in there.
8. It sounds like the cat you have now roams free enough to chase the other ones off. So to insist that your neighbors’ don't allow their cats to roam free wouldn't likely fly.
9. It sounds like those cats are pooping in more than just the garden. You said your yard. Fencing in the whole yard or whole property is rather expensive! But then again, if the whole yard is small enough that four or six cats are making it that horribly stentchy it’s probably small enough to put fencing around. I would recommend just fencing the garden to start with.
10. Have you ever thought of motion detectors, hooked up to a sprinkler system? Cats hate getting wet! Just a thought I couldn't say for sure whether or not it would work; or whether or not it would harm certain garden plants you may have.
Enough said I probably already said too much. Hopefully you can mitigate your problem to your satisfaction without too much trouble or expenditure.

Hotspring 44.

I'm sorry, but the neighbors' cats wrecking my garden is not a "people" problem...the stench of cat poop in parts of my yard is not a "people" problem, or am I supposed to spend money cat-proofing my yard so my neighbors can let their cats roam free? I actually adopted an "outdoor" cat that was abandoned when neighbors way down the road moved (she sleeps in the store-room on pillows and blankets and gets lots of love) as she's territorial and chases off other cats, but I shouldn't have to do that.

Yes, I do agree the major problem is uncontrolled breeding.

[urlove]

I have been reading the posts on this issue. I have had cats my whole life. I have always had indoor/outdoor cats. One of the many things I love about cats is their wild nature. They are a pet but also have a wild side. When one of my cats catches a gopher or something else I am not thrilled about it, but it is NATURE. These things happen in nature. I do not want anyone telling me I have to keep my cats indoors. It would be torture for my cats to suddenly have to stay inside all the time. I am bothered by the over-regulation which seems to be happening more and more in our society. That is my 2 cents.

[bill shearer]

I see that there are people here that think feral cats are wild and can live well on their own. Actually there is not any feral cats(or dogs) that truly live on their own in the wild, they eek out a existence in our communities or on the outskirts of them only. There are no groups of feral cats or dogs once you leave human inhabited areas anywhere. These animals only exist with our assistance, as our beloved companions or as our pests or somewhere in-between. The problem of uncared for companion animals is our responsibly, they are not wild animals and cannot just naturally take care of themselves. They need us and each one of them that is not cared for responsibly by us is a tragedy. Please Do not fail to spay and neuter your pets, and when you are ready to include a companion animal in your life, adopt.

[daynurse]

Yes. This is why I posted this. There are so many myths about feral cats. One is that somehow they are a separate class of cats from your kitty on your sofa. They are just abandoned cats. Frankly, I think fines for abandoning cats should be over a thousand dollars with jail time. Yet,
I don't know of any city that has a program designed to prosecute those who abandon cats.

Farmers and ranchers say they wake up at night to the sound of a car slowing down, knowing that they are being dumped on yet again. What was a small problem for the persons in the car now becomes a monstrous problem for the ranchers.

Forgotten Felines has a Trap, Neuter, and Release (TNR) program designed to limit the unfettered population of small areas by these poor cats.

I intend, when I have a bit more time to post research that cats do not dessimate bird populations. Also, many many bird species are non-native. The English brought many birds with them when they settled here. The common barn swallow is a non-native species which travelled here via that route.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this spirited and positive discussion. It proves Barry's point that this community can come together for political discourse without harming any of the participants.

Peggy


.

I see that there are people here that think feral cats are wild and can live well on their own. Actually there is not any feral cats(or dogs) that truly live on their own in the wild, they eek out a existence in our communities or on the outskirts of them only. There are no groups of feral cats or dogs once you leave human inhabited areas anywhere. These animals only exist with our assistance, as our beloved companions or as our pests or somewhere in-between. The problem of uncared for companion animals is our responsibly, they are not wild animals and cannot just naturally take care of themselves. They need us and each one of them that is not cared for responsibly by us is a tragedy. Please Do not fail to spay and neuter your pets, and when you are ready to include a companion animal in your life, adopt.