Notice To Anti-israeli Uber-lefties

[artfulme]

You should take a few minutes to visit this site:

www.shoebat.com

...which is by an Arab who joins Israel demanding justice for them vs. Arab terrorists.

Investigate the addendums/other publications there containing truth instead of hysterical anti-semitism.

Yes---anti-semitism adopted by the ubr-lefties. Thjere's no other namefor it!...no matter how the terrorists clothe it with finery,making these uber-lefties joining the most racist group on the planet that calls for the "elimination"of ALL Jews EVETYWHERE-repeat the curses for all jews everywhere adopted by the uber-lefties AND their Arab terrorist enablers.

How proud these racist uber-lefties must be!

[Hot Compost]

You should take a few minutes to visit this site:

www.shoebat.com

...which is by an Arab who joins Israel demanding justice for them vs. Arab terrorists.

Investigate the addendums/other publications there containing truth instead of hysterical anti-semitism.
...

How proud these racist uber-lefties must be!

this is like pro-apartheid demonstrators accusing anti-apartheid protesters of being anti-white or anti-Christian.

South Africa being run by a white Christian-backed government during its apartheid years.

Israel has little in common with Judaism. they use the same flag & symbol.

what a perfect ruse for a group of war criminals, to hide behind a HUGE country like the US, kill Palestinian cvilians, and to then accuse anybody who highlights their racism as anti-semitic.

it's an old game and it makes no friends for Israel.

[artfulme]

How about some FACTS...instead of your screed...which is pure opinion, not facts.

Are you one whose ancestors murdered 50.000.000 Jews because they wouldn'y convert?

You have a helluva nerve!

You come to this discussion with unclean hands!

When did you or yours ever take responsibilty for those millions of murders?

But it's ok. They're only Jews.

Your theme of antisemitism shines through when YOU presume to label Israel as not "Jewish."

So...that is YOUR way of obscene racism...and you don't even see it!

Should I say that americans christians are NOT christian because they do NOT follow the teachings of the Jew Jesus??

So...in my judgement no americans are really christians! Right? Including you.

Your commentary reveals just how antisemitic you are; and I bet you're proud of it!

Citing any Jew who approves of the STATED GENOCIDIC INTENTIONS OF HANAS AND THE PALESTINIANS is one who'd never have had the guts to fight for the creation of Israel, A REFUGE FROM THE CONTINUING (AS HERE) MURDERINGS OF JEWS!

WE refuse to be pushed around by people of continuing hatred from people like you!

The best that can be said about you is that you have no knowledge of history...ot just don't care for the sake of easy slogans!

[MsTerry]

Yeah, how about some facts
Did your ancestors kill blacks, Chinese or Native Americans?

How about some FACTS...instead of your screed...which is pure opinion, not facts.

Are you one whose ancestors murdered 50.000.000 Jews because they wouldn'y convert?

You have a helluva nerve!

You come to this discussion with unclean hands!

When did you or yours ever take responsibilty for those millions of murders?

But it's ok. They're only Jews.

Your theme of antisemitism shines through when YOU presume to label Israel as not "Jewish."

So...that is YOUR way of obscene racism...and you don't even see it!

Should I say that americans christians are NOT christian because they do NOT follow the teachings of the Jew Jesus??

So...in my judgement no americans are really christians! Right? Including you.

Your commentary reveals just how antisemitic you are; and I bet you're proud of it!

Citing any Jew who approves of the STATED GENOCIDIC INTENTIONS OF HANAS AND THE PALESTINIANS is one who'd never have had the guts to fight for the creation of Israel, A REFUGE FROM THE CONTINUING (AS HERE) MURDERINGS OF JEWS!

WE refuse to be pushed around by people of continuing hatred from people like you!

The best that can be said about you is that you have no knowledge of history...ot just don't care for the sake of easy slogans!

[Braggi]

How about some FACTS...instead of your screed...which is pure opinion, not facts. ...

If you're here to gain some support, perhaps you could limit the hateful anger your posts ooze with. If you want some respect, how about trying to earn it? You don't gain respect by trotting out a history of victimhood. You gain it by inviting intelligent discourse. I'm sure many here are willing to chat with you.

Throwing down the gauntlet is no way to start a civil conversation.

I propose you delete this thread or at least rename it and start over.

Blessings,

-Jeff

[Neshamah]

Assigning names is not going to change any minds. Many on the left are pacifists and believe that any kind of military response is unjustified, no matter what measures you take to minimize civilian casualties against an enemy doing everything it can to maximize its own civilian casualties for political advantage. I personally believe self-defense is a legitimate cause for military action (and Obama agrees with me,) but the pacifist position is not totally unreasonable and does not make the holder of that view automatically anti-Israeli.

~ Neshamah

[Tars]

If you're here to gain some support, perhaps you could limit the hateful anger your posts ooze with. If you want some respect, how about trying to earn it? You don't gain respect by trotting out a history of victimhood. You gain it by inviting intelligent discourse. I'm sure many here are willing to chat with you.

Braggi, your admonition should most appropriately be addressed to both sides of this issue on this board - well, in any political or religious thread here. Past posters haven't exactly been models of politeness. Do you really think anyone here's going to change their opinion because a new poster is polite while giving their differing opinion?

I consider myself lucky that I don't have a particular side in the Islamists vs Judaists neverending violence, and hatred discussions. Like so many religious and political issues, neither side can realistically convert anyone, but really only address the already-zealous believers on their particular side.

If the haters feel compelled to spew, this is probably a relatively harmless a place to do it. Well, unless they spew against my opinions; that's TOTALLY different.

[Photoguy]

Jewish history is full of massacre and theft of land, first it was the Jews doing the massacring and theft (if you believe the Old Testament or Torah), later they became the victims. Do you believe all dispossessed and murdered peoples should have their land returned? Which cities should we return to the Native Americans?

[babaruss]

All of which brings to mind a smattering of
Beatnik doggerel I recall from the late 50's

"Will murders ever cease ?
Since Christ died
There's not been 100 years of peace
And he was killed by the multitudes
And for what.......platitudes ?
Yes Abel was my brother
And I'm proud to be the first
Of such a goodly crowd"

Now an uber righty will figure I'm an anti-semite
While an uber lefty will recognize both terrible poetry
as well a useless contribution to a dead end dialogue
Russ

Jewish history is full of massacre and theft of land, first it was the Jews doing the massacring and theft (if you believe the Old Testament or Torah), later they became the victims. Do you believe all dispossessed and murdered peoples should have their land returned? Which cities should we return to the Native Americans?

[artfulme]

Truth is that Jesus acted out of his JEWISH background.

A BIG problem is in determining just what he said.

There have been a multitude of attributions, but how many of these words were actually uttered by him?

See "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman, a world-class biblical scholar, a former "born again" evangelical graduate of Wheaton College, a Christian evangelical institute, and of Princeton Theological Seminary.

He spent great time investigating the New Testament through reading it in Greek along with references through the years by other Christians/Popes/Bisops/Commentators, etc.

He now has become an "unbeliever". A large reason is that he found that thasty biuble was constantlt being "revised" over the hundreds of years...by these others...who very frequently altered the previously agreed-upon words that were themselves variations of it. He concluded that with ALL the alterations, additions, subtractions and revisions it became all but impossible to determine jusrt what was origionally said. (Note: many of these "changes" were made for "political" reasons)

He regards the present new Testament as a grab-bag of words, statements, advice, and demands accumulated over these 2000 years as a complete corruption of whatever was originally said.

The back jacket presents several notable tidbits:

1-The King James Bible was based on corrupted and inferior manuscirpts that in many cases do not accurately represent the meaning of the original text;
2-The favorite Bible story of Jesus' forgiving the woman caught in adultry (John 8:3-11) doesn't belong in the Bible;
3-Scribal errors were so common in antiquity that the author ofThe Book Of Revelation threatened damnation to anyone who "adds to" or "takes away" wordsfrom the text.

The book contains descrptions apleanty to lead him to his present "take' on religion. An agnostic/atheist NOW...like myself.

VERY THOUGHTFUL AND INTERESTING SCHOLARSHIP WORK.

[babaruss]

[quote=artfulme;80351]Truth is that Jesus acted out of his JEWISH background. A BIG problem is in determining just what he said.]

It's nice to be able to agree with you on something.
Of course Jesus (yesu ben yusef his probable real name) acted out of his Jewish back ground...after all he was a Jew.
Most of the main components of Christianity were added long after the crucifixion..none of which were a thought in anyone's mind at the time Jesus was alive.
Many Jews hoped him to be the Messiah they had long awaited.
Being publicly humiliated and crucified put a quick end to that belief.
It wasn't until another Jew... Paul, came along that what today is called Christianity began to come into being.
No need going into all the various things that went into the mix which shaped what today is called Christianity.

The Jesus Seminar spent a huge amount of time and scholarship trying to sort out just what it was that Jesus said.
It might be worth your while to wade through their conclusions.

The Bible, and particularly the New Testament, is full of interpolations.
Everyone added to, or detracted from the original texts for all manner of reasons.
Later those with a vested interest in certain beliefs, and outcomes, began to publish and distribute that corrupted collection of writings which today we call the Holy Bible
Nothing new there really...every system of belief is constantly being altered and modified over time.
For what it's worth...there's nothing wrong with 'false teaching' if someone can use those teachings to better themselves (and the world in which they live).
The easiest way to follow the change (and growth) process of a belief system is to follow America's most noted religious offering...the Mormon church.
History allows one to follow it from it's inception, to document it's many changes, and even document the political/financial reasons behind some of those changes.
No fault, no blame, intended here. Just offering an opportunity to observe how a relatively new religion evolved and grew into what it is today.
Enough of my rambling.
Russ

[papanut]

You're quite the predictor of reactions, aren't you? Must be some sort of mystical beatnik mad skills you learned?

All of which brings to mind a smattering of
Beatnik doggerel I recall from the late 50's

"Will murders ever cease ?
Since Christ died
There's not been 100 years of peace
And he was killed by the multitudes
And for what.......platitudes ?
Yes Abel was my brother
And I'm proud to be the first
Of such a goodly crowd"

Now an uber righty will figure I'm an anti-semite
While an uber lefty will recognize both terrible poetry
as well a useless contribution to a dead end dialogue
Russ

[MsTerry]

LMAO
papanut versus babarus?

[babaruss]

babaruss can play cat fish
you know...lay low and keep
his big mouth shut !!
Russ

LMAO
papanut versus babarus?

[MsTerry]

So which one is your alter ego?
papa or baba?
nut or russ?

babaruss can play cat fish
you know...lay low and keep
his big mouth shut !!
Russ

[babaruss]

decisions decisions...always decisions !!
Paparussbabanut ?

So which one is your alter ego?
papa or baba?
nut or russ?

[Valley Oak]

that was profound

decisions decisions...always decisions !!
Paparussbabanut ?

[babaruss]

I try my best Edward...certainly no half measures coming
from this quarter !!
Russ

that was profound

[Sonomamark]

There are many ways to look at this issue. One of the most cartoonishly distorted is the any-criticism-of-Israel-is-anti-semitism nonsense, popular though it may be. It isn't just the human rights and discrimination history that's up for dispute-many who deplore Israel's well-documented history on these fronts nonetheless strongly defend the legitimacy of Israel as a nation and its establishment in 1948. Which is also a highly debatable position.

My point is that there isn't much purpose to conversations like this. There's a large cohort of pro-Israeli people for whom support for Israel is axiomatic: they'd rationalize it if Israel nuked Mecca. Such belief is an ideology, not a reasoned position. It has as much to do with reason as does religion and other credibility in things unsupported by evidence.

Arguing with an ideologue is worthless, unless you just enjoy arguing. It's like trying to talk an evangelical Christian out of their faith.

Short version: no minds are going to be changed in this thread. Might as well drop it.


SM

Assigning names is not going to change any minds. Many on the left are pacifists and believe that any kind of military response is unjustified, no matter what measures you take to minimize civilian casualties against an enemy doing everything it can to maximize its own civilian casualties for political advantage. I personally believe self-defense is a legitimate cause for military action (and Obama agrees with me,) but the pacifist position is not totally unreasonable and does not make the holder of that view automatically anti-Israeli.

~ Neshamah

[babaruss]

I could not disagree more Mark.
Minds are always being changed (through the input of ideas, insights, and new information, shared on forums like this one).
Not everyone is going to agree. Not everyone is going to make even incremental shifts in their thinking, but many of us will (and do).
For me this is a blessing not a curse.
Flamers, bull heads, zealots, and 'who knows what all' are just part of that which comes from participating in an open forum.
Faints hearts will faint..bullies will huff and puff, the psychotic will do their
rabid dance, .....the bleeding hearts will bleed...egos will ....ah you get the idea.
I used to cringe at attacks...and even entered into a few early on.
Today my blood pressure remains low in the face of views and expressions which once kept me just short of having a stroke.
I'm for letting things be as they are.
Dropping something before it has run it's course is not my idea of learning.
Besides not everything we learn here is related to the topic at hand.
Some of this side bar stuff is wildly interesting.
Russ

Short version: no minds are going to be changed in this thread. Might as well drop it. SM