CA Democratic Convention delegates: make Di-Fi go bye-bye

[Dynamique]

Now that the delegates to the Calif. Democratic Convention have been selected, here's an issue for them to bring up at the convention: finding a replacement for Sen. Dianne Feinstein. It's high time that she retire and be replaced with a true progressive. There are also some, shall we say, highly suspicious actions and connections around the FIGR and their attempt to set up a casino.

What do you think? Have you had enough of Sen. Dianne Feinstein? Do you want to have the subject of her "retirement" be brought up at the Demo convention?

[wildflower]

I'd LOVE to say,"bye bye Di-Fi"!

Now that the delegates to the Calif. Democratic Convention have been selected, here's an issue for them to bring up at the convention: finding a replacement for Sen. Dianne Feinstein. It's high time that she retire and be replaced with a true progressive. There are also some, shall we say, highly suspicious actions and connections around the FIGR and their attempt to set up a casino.

What do you think? Have you had enough of Sen. Dianne Feinstein? Do you want to have the subject of her "retirement" be brought up at the Demo convention?

[Hot Compost]

i can't think of anything Feinstein has done that represents compassionate liberalism.

i remember emailing all the senators & the reps. in 1999 when the US was attacking the Balkans - using depleted uranium - under Clinton.

after 3 weeks, it was very obvious that all local forces were exhausted, "on the ropes". no fight left in them.

i guess the US had some more nuclear waste to get rid of, or some more weapons to try out, because the drive-by bombing (by the US) continued.

on Yugoslavia in 1999, on Iraq in 2003, Feinstein has voted for war - at the behest of the neocons, in the latter case enacting the US foreign policy favored by Israel.

it's way past time for DiFi to go bye-bye !

[photolite]

If she retires from the Senate she may very likely be our next Governor.
Photo

[Dynamique]

Not if she's told not to bother running and/or does not make it past the primary.

If she retires from the Senate she may very likely be our next Governor.
Photo

[Sonomamark]

I'm sorry, but this thread is just ridiculous.

Dianne Feinstein is the most popular state-level elected Democrat in California. I don't like it, you don't have to like it, but that's a fact. Check out the polls. She ain't going anywhere she doesn't want to go, and she couldn't care less if the lefty fringe doesn't like her. No one on this board can lay a glove on her.

So if you're thinking of investing some energy in political and social change--and you're hoping for some results, instead of the righteous feeling of Going Down For A Noble Cause--you'd best look elsewhere. Di-Fi is about as invulnerable an official as you will find in this state.


SM

Not if she's told not to bother running and/or does not make it past the primary.

[Braggi]

... Di-Fi is about as invulnerable an official as you will find in this state.

I don't like her much either. She never votes the way I would on any important issue, but she's a political force to be respected.

Supporting lower level progressives makes more sense than attacking powerful Democrats who are less progressive. When a high level position becomes available, if most of the choices to fill the seat are progressive then progressives will advance.

Perhaps Obama will make the field safer for progressives and perhaps safer for more "conservative" players to show their more liberal sides. I still have some hope.

-Jeff

[Dynamique]

Guess again. She's not nearly as popular as you assume, and lots of progressives/lefties have had quite enough of her. She's being propped up by the old-school Demo "machine" cronies (who also need to go.. basically the Clintonistas). It's this type of thinking that is keeping her around. NOBODY is invulnerable.

I started the thread and put in a poll to get the conversation going and give the Demo delegates in the area a directive from the people. Isn't that why we have elections and delegates? Or is the convention just another bullshit placebo exercise? START BRINGING IT UP and start looking for a viable replacement to run when the term is up. The place to start is bringing it up and talking about it.

As my hero Howard Dean is fond of saying, "YOU have the power." Indeed you do, but only if you claim it and exercise it.

I'm sorry, but this thread is just ridiculous.

Dianne Feinstein is the most popular state-level elected Democrat in California. I don't like it, you don't have to like it, but that's a fact. Check out the polls. She ain't going anywhere she doesn't want to go, and she couldn't care less if the lefty fringe doesn't like her. No one on this board can lay a glove on her.

So if you're thinking of investing some energy in political and social change--and you're hoping for some results, instead of the righteous feeling of Going Down For A Noble Cause--you'd best look elsewhere. Di-Fi is about as invulnerable an official as you will find in this state.


SM

[Sonomamark]

Um, it wasn't a guess. You read polls? I do. Fanatically. Gotta, when you're a political junkie like me. Look into it: Di-Fi is bulletproof.

You seem to assume that what "progressive/lefties" think matters to her. It doesn't. Most of the voters in the state aren't progressive lefties; they're moderates who lean a little left. They elected George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson and Arnold Schwarznegger, and they voted for Three Strikes You're Out and Prop. 8. There aren't enough people in this state who think like you--or me--to outvote the people who think that a right-leaning Democrat is a great thing. Hell, Feinstein probably pulls a significant Republican vote in the general election--she has quite high approval numbers among Reps for a Democrat.

Just because you believe you can do something doesn't mean you can. Telling yourself and others that "thinking" is keeping a popular official in office is just not facing reality.

Politics is not about getting your ideal fantasy. It's about getting as close to it as you can, within the realm of the possible. Dianne Feinstein will not be defeated by a primary challenger unless something really major happens to kill her popularity, and that something would have to be done by HER, not by those who don't like her.

Sure, Dean said we have the power. But that power isn't magical, nor is it unlimited. However much I want to believe it, I can't learn to fly through mind control. You have about as much likelihood of taking down a popular Senator in a gigantic state that requires millions of dollars for a credible statewide campaign. And who would you replace her with? Who has the statewide name recognition, willingness to go to war with the entire party apparatus, fundraising capacity and public credibility to try?

All I'm saying is that political energy, like everything else, is a finite resource, and we should apply it wisely, where it can matter. Not in quixotic Glorious Doomed Causes like trying to topple Feinstein.


SM

Guess again. She's not nearly as popular as you assume, and lots of progressives/lefties have had quite enough of her. She's being propped up by the old-school Demo "machine" cronies (who also need to go.. basically the Clintonistas). It's this type of thinking that is keeping her around. NOBODY is invulnerable.

I started the thread and put in a poll to get the conversation going and give the Demo delegates in the area a directive from the people. Isn't that why we have elections and delegates? Or is the convention just another bullshit placebo exercise? START BRINGING IT UP and start looking for a viable replacement to run when the term is up. The place to start is bringing it up and talking about it.

As my hero Howard Dean is fond of saying, "YOU have the power." Indeed you do, but only if you claim it and exercise it.

[Dynamique]

In other words, Di-Fi calls herself a Democrat but sure acts like a Republican. Do you see Barbara Boxer doing this sort of thing? Nope, and she has no problem getting re-elected, either.

And no, I don't read media-sponsored polls because they're anything but straightforward. I've never spoken with ANYONE, left or right, who likes her. Does anyone on this board like her? Do you know of anyone who does?

The real problem is that the Democratic party is afraid of any change or housecleaning because they have been the opposition party underdog for so long. They put up with Di-Fi and Joe Liberman, the DINO poster couple, because they think they don't have a choice. Neither of these individuals have been appointed "Senator for Life." They need to go.

House cleaning works a whole lot better when it's an inside job. When there is enough bitching, then the people "in charge" join the parade -- and they usually think that they started it or it was their brilliant idea!

A year ago there was a lot of similar-sounding defeatism about a mixed-race guy named "Barack Hussein Obama" being elected President of the United States. There's a proverb that applies here: "the minute you say that something cannot be done, you're right."

Of course just "thinking" is not going to make something happen. It must be accompanied by DOING of a focused and directed nature. Some folks have the idea that if they "ask the universe" or think about wanting something that it will magically manifest. Hogwash. One must envision a goal and then TAKE ACTION to implement it. By the same token, thinking that you're stuck with something or you cannot do anything about whatever is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

If you (all) are a lefty who wants real change, which includes getting rid of Di-Fi and her DINO ilk, then you need to start bending the ear of your state Demo delegate. Heck, bend the ear of anybody involved with the party governance, such as it is! The convention is a place where things of this nature can get started... if YOU SPEAK UP!

Um, it wasn't a guess. You read polls? I do. Fanatically. Gotta, when you're a political junkie like me. Look into it: Di-Fi is bulletproof.

You seem to assume that what "progressive/lefties" think matters to her. It doesn't. Most of the voters in the state aren't progressive lefties; they're moderates who lean a little left. They elected George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson and Arnold Schwarznegger, and they voted for Three Strikes You're Out and Prop. 8. There aren't enough people in this state who think like you--or me--to outvote the people who think that a right-leaning Democrat is a great thing. Hell, Feinstein probably pulls a significant Republican vote in the general election--she has quite high approval numbers among Reps for a Democrat.

Just because you believe you can do something doesn't mean you can. Telling yourself and others that "thinking" is keeping a popular official in office is just not facing reality.

Politics is not about getting your ideal fantasy. It's about getting as close to it as you can, within the realm of the possible. Dianne Feinstein will not be defeated by a primary challenger unless something really major happens to kill her popularity, and that something would have to be done by HER, not by those who don't like her.

Sure, Dean said we have the power. But that power isn't magical, nor is it unlimited. However much I want to believe it, I can't learn to fly through mind control. You have about as much likelihood of taking down a popular Senator in a gigantic state that requires millions of dollars for a credible statewide campaign. And who would you replace her with? Who has the statewide name recognition, willingness to go to war with the entire party apparatus, fundraising capacity and public credibility to try?

All I'm saying is that political energy, like everything else, is a finite resource, and we should apply it wisely, where it can matter. Not in quixotic Glorious Doomed Causes like trying to topple Feinstein.


SM

[Sonomamark]

Dynamique,

Again: you're not sufficiently informed. Barbara Boxer has led a charmed political life, and that's why she's a Senator--she wouldn't be, if not for being very, very lucky. She beat hard-right TV commentator (and truly ridiculous person) Bruce Herschensohn in 1992, the "Year of the Woman". Since, even though she's been seen as vulnerable because she's FAR more liberal than the state as a whole, she has been challenged by weak, hard-right candidates who couldn't carry independents in both her reelection bids. That's because the Republicans are so screwed up that moderates generally lose to reactionaries in the primaries for statewide offices. So she gets to run against obvious nutcases instead of genuinely threatening challengers. Neither the christian-right, anti-choice Matt Fong nor the unbelievably boring Bill Jones had a prayer.

If Schwarznegger runs against her, on the other hand, look out. Because she could very well lose. And if she did something that attracted some negative attention, she could very well lose a primary challenge to someone more moderate in the Democratic party--someone more like Feinstein.

The reasons Boxer wins are the same reason Di-Fi can't lose: because she's close enough to the middle to be able to carry independent voters over a more hard-right Republican rival.

Second, let me be blunt: anyone who decides to start a conversation about electoral strategy while simultaneously saying that "polls are bullshit" is pretty much telegraphing that s/he doesn't know a thing about what s/he is talking about. Sorry, but you were the one who decided to bring this topic up. Polling has become a very, very reliable tool set for predicting electoral outcomes. This cycle, Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com got within fractions of a percentage point of accuracy on a district-by-district basis throughout the whole county.

Finally, you're not helping yourself by inventing words I supposedly said about SMART--but never did--and trying to change the subject. There is one person in this exchange who has actually run and won electoral campaigns, and it isn't you.

There is a lot of work that needs doing in this country. Wasting energy and effort on a doomed cause undermines that work through your absence. If you're more invested in a futile, angry crusade against one person than you are in being a part of the larger movement to address the deep structural problems in this country, you're part of the problem, in my opinion, not the solution.

Being practical in activism is a virtue. Being strategic and picking your battles means you can actually get something done, instead of congratulating yourself for Standing Up for Good while the cause you claim to stand for goes down in flames.

That's enough of this for me. I think this has been pretty well hashed out.

Anyone who isn't sure which way to turn on this particular issue is welcome to do as Dynamique suggests, and talk to a local Dem legislator or convention delegate about the idea of trying to topple Feinstein. Bring Kleenex; as that person is getting up from rolling on the floor, s/he will be laughing so hard that tears will be streaming down her/his face.



SM

In other words, Di-Fi calls herself a Democrat but sure acts like a Republican. Do you see Barbara Boxer doing this sort of thing? Nope, and she has no problem getting re-elected, either.

And no, I don't read polls because they're bullshit. I've never spoken with ANYONE, left or right, who likes her. Does anyone on this board like her? Do you know of anyone who does?

The real problem is that the Democratic party is afraid of any change or housecleaning because they have been the opposition party underdog for so long. They put up with Di-Fi and Joe Liberman, the DINO poster couple, because they think they don't have a choice. Neither of these individuals have been appointed "Senator for Life." They need to go.

House cleaning works a whole lot better when it's an inside job. When there is enough bitching, then the people "in charge" join the parade -- and they usually think that they started it or it was their brilliant idea!

A year ago there was a lot of similar-sounding defeatism about a mixed-race guy named "Barack Hussein Obama" being elected President of the United States. There's a proverb that applies here: "the minute you say that something cannot be done, you're right." As I recall, Sonomamark, you also think that a majority of commuters are going to ride their bicycles to a train station and take a train to work at their job in Marin or SF. Then they are going to stop by the grocery store after work and schlep 50 pounds of groceries home on their bicycle. Get real! I think your thinking is lacking and quite negative.

Of course just "thinking" is not going to make something happen. It must be accompanied by DOING of a focused and directed nature. Some folks have the idea that if they "ask the universe" or think about wanting something that it will magically manifest. Hogwash. One must envision a goal and then TAKE ACTION to implement it. By the same token, thinking that you're stuck with something or you cannot do anything about whatever is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

If you (all) are a lefty who wants real change, which includes getting rid of Di-Fi and her DINO ilk, then you need to start bending the ear of your state Demo delegate. Heck, bend the ear of anybody involved with the party governance, such as it is! The convention is a place where things of this nature can get started... if YOU SPEAK UP!

[Dynamique]

SM, clearly there is something deeper going on here. Why are you responding in this way? Why are you accusing me of all these odd things -- being angry (I'm not, but you sure are), wasting time with something ridiculous, some crap about the Greater Good that came out of nowhere...

I'm really not the only person who is bringing this up. The Courage Campaign and Democracy for America have had actions focused on censuring Di-Fi. (Title of action email: "Had enough of Sen. Dianne Feinstein?") The Demo mukety-mucks did some snazzy parlimentary procedure footwork to prevent that vote from occurring, which should tell us all something about the Democratic Party.

Of course there is a lot of work that needs to be done. Putting up with a no-goodnik who is really not working for you because you think you have to or because you think you have no choice is not going to accomplish any of it. That is one of the deep structural problems in this country: we do not have a genuine democracy any more and our "elections" are just placebos. Di-Fi is just the tip of the iceberg, but she exemplifies the fundamental problems.

There's one thing we both agree on, however: that's enough.

There is a lot of work that needs doing in this country. Wasting energy and effort on a doomed cause undermines that work through your absence. If you're more invested in a futile, angry crusade against one person than you are in being a part of the larger movement to address the deep structural problems in this country, you're part of the problem, in my opinion, not the solution.

Being practical in activism is a virtue. Being strategic and picking your battles means you can actually get something done, instead of congratulating yourself for Standing Up for Good while the cause you claim to stand for goes down in flames.

That's enough of this for me. I think this has been pretty well hashed out.

Anyone who isn't sure which way to turn on this particular issue is welcome to do as Dynamique suggests, and talk to a local Dem legislator or convention delegate about the idea of trying to topple Feinstein. Bring Kleenex; as that person is getting up from rolling on the floor, s/he will be laughing so hard that tears will be streaming down her/his face.

[Sonomamark]

Oh, for god's sake. Look in the mirror, Dynamique: do you really want to be the kind of person who runs right to name-calling when your arguments are called for being empty? I'm not posting further on the substance--I've won that argument--but this playground-taunting post is really beyond the pale. I'm not "angry"...I'm exasperated by the lack of understanding of the topic you demonstrate, when you're the one who brought it up. It's as if you posted a new thread suggesting that all car problems can be fixed by whacking the hood with a mallet.

Lose gracefully. It's more becoming. And when confronted with knowledge you don't have, try learning. Then, next time, your analysis is better.


SM

SM, clearly there is something deeper going on here. Why are you responding in this way? Why are you accusing me of all these odd things -- being angry (I'm not, but you sure are), wasting time with something ridiculous, some crap about the Greater Good that came out of nowhere...

Methinks you doth protest too much -- and this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate how politically bitchen-ass you are. Clearly there is a male ego and some weird self-promotion at play here.

I'm really not the only person who is bringing this up. The Courage Campaign and Democracy for America have had actions focused on censuring Di-Fi. (Title of action email: "Had enough of Sen. Dianne Feinstein?") The Demo mukety-mucks did some snazzy parlimentary procedure footwork to prevent that vote from occurring, which should tell us all something about the Democratic Party.

Of course there is a lot of work that needs to be done. Putting up with a no-goodnik who is really not working for you because you think you have to or because you think you have no choice is not going to accomplish any of it. That is one of the deep structural problems in this country: we do not have a genuine democracy any more and our "elections" are just placebos. Di-Fi is just the tip of the iceberg, but she exemplifies the fundamental problems.

There's one thing we both agree on, however: that's enough.

[Bryan]

I personally believe DiFi has kept us from having a right winger in that office. She isn't lefty but she isn't a right winger either.

What I also think is this is the type of activity that too many 'liberals' waste their efforts on. Its no different than hearing Rush's claptrap from the right - makes a few people feel good at the expense of someone else.

Its easy to throw some red herring out there like 'let's get rid of so and so' easier than it is to spend some time working on a real problem..

What's a real problem? Pick one that requires getting your hands dirty - kids needing tutors maybe? cleaning up some poor neighborhood? How about getting a group of people to actively do something? That is the kind of thing we need to talk about AND work about. That is the community organizing that got Obama into office.

Why not do this - call Barbara Boxer's office and ask them where you can spend YOUR time and YOUR effort to help her stay in office next term? Maybe they have a project that needs volunteers? Maybe lead that projecdt?

Why not spend the next 4-8 years working on something that will actually make some small difference? I prefer that to spending time getting upset about someone who is not 'liberal/environmental/younameit' enough for them?

FWIW, I think Arnold has a real problem running now for US Senator as the budget in California, the one issue he got his job on, is so out of whack.
Can't blame that on Boxer if he runs against her. But can he take responsibilty for it?