Don't Vote!!

[Barry]

Don't Vote!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhDRVKDcXQo

[wunda]

Don't Vote!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhDRVKDcXQo

loved it. Register while pooping? lol I did it naked!

[d-cat]

I personally believe that it might be effective for the nation to boycott the election in protest of Diebold voting machines and the false choice between two CFR candidates.

documentary on Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) voting machines
Hacking Democracy
https://video.google.com/videoplay?d...59260759486531

[Braggi]

I personally believe that it might be effective for the nation to boycott the election in protest of Diebold voting machines and the false choice between two CFR candidates. ...

d-cat, in spirit I agree with you, but if you believe there is no difference between Obama and Biden and Grandpa and Gidget, you really haven't been paying attention, and frankly, I don't think you deserve to vote.

-Jeff

[Sonomamark]

Okay, I'll bite. D-cat, you seem to specialize in conspiracy theories and delusions, but here, in response to your one-sentence assertion, I have to ask...

Exactly how do you define "effective"?

For whom, and to what end?

I personally believe that it might be effective for the nation to boycott the election in protest of Diebold voting machines and the false choice between two CFR candidates.

documentary on Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) voting machines
Hacking Democracy
https://video.google.com/videoplay?d...59260759486531

[d-cat]

d-cat, in spirit I agree with you, but if you believe there is no difference between Obama and Biden and Grandpa and Gidget, you really haven't been paying attention, and frankly, I don't think you deserve to vote.

-Jeff

I do not believe there is a difference between the two candidates on the important issues. Neither does Ralph:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5WiE6MnmCM

btw Biden is also CFR

[Barry]

I personally believe that it might be effective for the nation to boycott the election in protest of Diebold voting machines and the false choice between two CFR candidates.

documentary on Diebold (now Premier Election Solutions) voting machines
Hacking Democracy
https://video.google.com/videoplay?d...59260759486531

The voting system is clearly a BIG PROBLEM! However I don't think not-voting is the best protest. They may even be hoping we give up and don't vote since they are going to steal it anyway.

Hopefully by now, there are a lot of people watching. If there is vote rigging it should be a big deal. And if the presidential election is stolen again, then there should be vast protests!

Hopefully, Obama win will be larger than the few percent they can probably get away with. It looks promising at the moment!

[d-cat]

Okay, I'll bite. D-cat, you seem to specialize in conspiracy theories and delusions,

call it what you want

but here, in response to your one-sentence assertion,

you missed the video I guess

I have to ask...

Exactly how do you define "effective"?

same as the dictionary

For whom, and to what end?

For the American people to have their votes counted fairly. Research voting fraud. Research CFR. I'd rather not waste my time arguing with people who never looked into these very important subjects.


-----------------------------


Eisenhower's warning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrGKwkmxAU

Lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

More Lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGf9kGhzg_o

[d-cat]

The voting system is clearly a BIG PROBLEM! However I don't think not-voting is the best protest. They may even be hoping we give up and don't vote since they are going to steal it anyway.

Hopefully by now, there are a lot of people watching. If there is vote rigging it should be a big deal. And if the presidential election is stolen again, then there should be vast protests!

That's what they say every time. There was voter fraud in the primaries already. Of course, Diebold machines were used. Why do you think they keep using them? Same case in 2000, 2004. People have always been saying "next time". Meanwhile our country has gone down the toilet. But it's too late anyway; it was just a thought. Ron Paul has a campaign going on now to vote 3rd party (see Revolution thread at WaccoTalk). I'd like to see 3rd parties getting more votes than the other "two". If I'm in a mood to participate in making a "statement" on election day, I'll maybe haul my butt down to vote for McKinney, for the courage she has shown over the years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eootfzAhAoU

Hopefully, Obama win will be larger than the few percent they can probably get away with. It looks promising at the moment!

Both are CFR candidates. I predict the CFR will win this election. In 2004, Skull & Bones won. But they're one big happy family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlugkjbsYEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0KbC3ydTQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1neSYeIl828

CFR and Skull & Bones are two very important subjects for the American voter to know about. Especially CFR this year. And their agenda. Research 'North American Union'. It's part of the New World Order (see Russia thread at WaccoTalk).

[d-cat]

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

~ Joseph Stalin


If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

~ Thomas Jefferson

[d-cat]

D-cat, you seem to specialize in conspiracy theories and delusions...

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."

~ Albert Einstein

[d-cat]

Look how McBama voted on the bailout bill...

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...n=2&vote=00213

[OrchardDweller]

It's a puppet show to make us believe we have a choice.

No Debate: How the Republican and Democratic Parties Secretly Control the Presidential Debates
https://www.democracynow.org/2008/10...republican_and

And, of course, Amy, you’re not going to see any third party voices in tonight’s debate. The Republican, Democratic parties, who exert near absolute control over these public forums, have determined and made sure that no third party voices are ever seen on the debate stage and can challenge their dominance of our political system.

[Sonomamark]

Okay, according to you:

1) Using the definition of "effective" in the dictionary, and
2) Applying your metric of having the American people's votes counted as the goal...

Your argument is that not voting will increase the likelihood of our votes' being counted?

Like I said: delusional.

I've looked into voter fraud. A lot. I'm up on the subject. As far as I can tell, that makes one of us.


SM

call it what you want



you missed the video I guess



same as the dictionary



For the American people to have their votes counted fairly. Research voting fraud. Research CFR. I'd rather not waste my time arguing with people who never looked into these very important subjects.


-----------------------------


Eisenhower's warning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrGKwkmxAU

Lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

More Lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGf9kGhzg_o

[Sonomamark]

Ah, but see, I have investigated. I've read your posts.

Have a nice day!


SM

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."

~ Albert Einstein

[Neshamah]

I had hoped (perhaps naively given his campaign) McCain might bring a more open, responsible, and bipartisan administration, or that Obama would bring more open government, a more responsible foreign policy (until he agreed with McCain to bring Georgia into NATO,) and cut the taxes of 95% of Americans. (Admittedly, the bar has been set very low over the last 8 years.) However, both of them voted to give one person the immediate authority to invest $250 billion in taxpayer money after closed-door negotiations. That's fascism, not democracy, and I cannot in good conscience support either one, though I suppose it would be different if I were living in Ohio or Florida. All of the major third party candidates have their own limitations, but if even one of them can exceed 5% of the vote, we will have more to work with in four years. If everyone in Sonoma and Marin Counties votes for a third party, Obama will still carry California by a landslide. We have to start somewhere.

Not voting is the same as voting for the winner, and non-voters are just as much to blame for the last eight years as those who voted for Bush.

~ Neshamah

[Sonomamark]

Neshamah, there are several points here that just don't match up well with the facts on the ground.

First, if you want "open government", give me a single reason not to support Obama. His campaign has been completely transparent. He shows every indication of intending to roll the Bush excesses back and, in fact, cited as one of the initial drivers of his decision to run his background as a Constitutional law professor and his dismay at what has been done to the Constitution.

Second, I'm not sure how you think tax policy is foreign policy, but clearly, there is one person running this year who intends to start solving our budget deficits and resource misallocation by taxing the wealthy, and that's Obama. I agree with you about Georgia being in NATO, but much of the reason that has become so contentious has been because of Bush's pugnacious foreign policy stance, including his missile defense scheme in Poland. It didn't have to be this way. Obama has made it clear that discussion, diplomacy and the search for common ground is his modality for foreign policy.

Suggest you look up the definition of "fascism". It has nothing to do with economic policy, but rather about authoritarian rule of law. Like it or not, the rescue plan was authorized by those charged by the Constitution with making such decisions, and it now contains oversight of where the money goes. A policy disagreement doesn't constitute "fascism", and it's unhelpful to throw words like that around.

Finally, this bit about getting 5% and "making progress" with third parties. People have been saying that for literal decades. They were saying it in the first Presidential election I ever voted in (1980, with John Anderson), and are still saying it now, although a lot fewer people are saying it since Nader screwed things so royally in 2000. That 5% is not coming--not this year, and not for years to come, because the Republican Party will always have the money of the plutocracy behind it, and the Democrats are at the very beginning of a populist resurgence that will keep them lively for the foreseeable future.

I will bet anything you care to wager that we will never see a third-party candidate actually be competitive for President. Perot couldn't do it, with his own billions, a tanking economy and an angry populace ready to spit on both parties. The system isn't designed for it, and it isn't going to happen. If that's the change you hope for, you might as well give up--it's an unattainable goal.

If you want to have some actual impact on the future policy course of the country, you will have to do so through the vehicles available. There are two: the Democratic and Republican Parties. That means holding your nose sometimes, and accepting that it is unreasonable to expect the political system to deliver exactly what you want, or taking your ball and going home.

In a democracy, what you want gets tempered by what someone who completely agrees with you wants. That's what's supposed to happen.


SM

I had hoped (perhaps naively given his campaign) McCain might bring a more open, responsible, and bipartisan administration, or that Obama would bring more open government, a more responsible foreign policy (until he agreed with McCain to bring Georgia into NATO,) and cut the taxes of 95% of Americans. (Admittedly, the bar has been set very low over the last 8 years.) However, both of them voted to give one person the immediate authority to invest $250 billion in taxpayer money after closed-door negotiations. That's fascism, not democracy, and I cannot in good conscience support either one, though I suppose it would be different if I were living in Ohio or Florida. All of the major third party candidates have their own limitations, but if even one of them can exceed 5% of the vote, we will have more to work with in four years. If everyone in Sonoma and Marin Counties votes for a third party, Obama will still carry California by a landslide. We have to start somewhere.

Not voting is the same as voting for the winner, and non-voters are just as much to blame for the last eight years as those who voted for Bush.

~ Neshamah

[d-cat]

I remember Sonoma Mark from the Ron Paul thread as the pompous, hateful, self-appointed spokesman for progressives. You can see more of Sonoma Mark's work here.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27181

I'm not going to waste time dealing with him (or Valley Oak).
You're free to believe what Sonoma Mark says. But my suggestion
would be to look into these very important subjects yourself.

I post this information and provide the links because I believe we are living
in a very dangerous time, and I feel obliged to inform my community of what I know, what I have found out, and what the mainstream media isn't reporting.

[d-cat]

It's a puppet show to make us believe we have a choice...

Yep. Here's artist David Dees' take on it




and the late George Carlin's (great clip!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw


and Bill Clinton's mentor, Carroll Quigley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRkCvubUGCM


and here's a short video explaining how the "two party" system works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTahZE4q90U


from the video description:

It is very important for us all to realise that we are living under a simple but clever system that has been designed to contain revolution whilst projecting the illusion of being a free, fair and open democracy. The 2-party system provides firm support for the elite to implement their agenda from the top down, whilst the ordinary people at the grassroots level squabble between themselves over which political party is the best. In reality, it doesn't matter which of the two parties you vote for because the same agenda will unfold regardless. Hence, both parties are controlled at the very top by the same force.

.

[Neshamah]

Sonomamark,

I am not sure how you think I think tax policy is foreign policy. Obama is perhaps a marginal improvement over McCain on foreign policy, and both are light years ahead of Bush. On tax policy, Obama's cuts are good, but his increases are excessive and may reduce revenue by further slowing the economy. When combined with his proposed spending programs, the deficit would only increase. He (like McCain and Bush) supported spying on Americans, so when it comes to less authoritarianism and more transparency, I will believe it when I see it. I hope he means it, because that will do more to reign in the budget than anything else. I hope he will also use the veto pen to veto any excess that comes across his desk.

Expensive legislation on behalf of giant corporations negotiated behind closed doors in opposition to the will of the people is authoritarian, and therefore fascist. It will be getting worse before it gets better, and forcing taxpayers to take over the bad debt of private organizations only delays and compounds the inevitable return to fair value. The ones who saw this coming were and are ridiculed by the media who do what they are told in order to maintain access. (Ridicule was a favorite weapon of National Socialist propaganda.) Their doomsday advocacy of this bailout was unconscionable. The most naked example I heard came from Joe Scarborough who was glad "adults were negotiating this behind closed doors." Apparently, we're a nation of children with just 100 adults to take care of us. How is that Democratic?

I do not dispute that there are times to work with one of the major parties. (The Democratic Party in Delaware is unfortunately even more corrupt and inaccessible than the Republican Party.) I held my nose and voted for Gore and Kerry in 2000 and 2004 because I believed there was an outside chance Delaware could go either way and might even make the difference. However, Delaware this year might as well be a tiny California. Obama will win it overwhelmingly, and I have the opportunity to support someone else. I do not accept the claim that anything is impossible, and will support better alternatives as often as I can. If you vote for Obama, I hope it is because you believe he is the best candidate, and not simply the lesser evil.

~ Neshamah

[OrchardDweller]

That's what they say every time. There was voter fraud in the primaries already. Of course, Diebold machines were used. Why do you think they keep using them? Same case in 2000, 2004. People have always been saying "next time". Meanwhile our country has gone down the toilet. But it's too late anyway; it was just a thought.

That might not a bad idea d-cat. Think about it: why would one keep putting money in a vending machine that doesn't work? And expect different results! What a statement it would be... "We don't vote until the Diebold machines are gone and until we can have fair & open elections!". But you're right, there's no time. Don't people wonder why neither party seem to have an interest in solving this problem?

[Sonomamark]

Uh huh.

So: tell us all how changing the subject from facts and analysis to personal smears makes your position look better?

But I agree with you that people should look into these issues for themselves. If they do, they will conclude, d-cat, that you are completely without credibility.


SM

I remember Sonoma Mark from the Ron Paul thread as the pompous, hateful, self-appointed spokesman for progressives. You can see more of Sonoma Mark's work here.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27181

I'm not going to waste time dealing with him (or Valley Oak).
You're free to believe what Sonoma Mark says. But my suggestion
would be to look into these very important subjects yourself.

I post this information and provide the links because I believe we are living
in a very dangerous time, and I feel obliged to inform my community of what I know, what I have found out, and what the mainstream media isn't reporting.

[Sonomamark]

Sonomamark,

I am not sure how you think I think tax policy is foreign policy.

Read your post.

Expensive legislation on behalf of giant corporations negotiated behind closed doors in opposition to the will of the people is authoritarian, and therefore fascist.

Flatly false. Legislation passed by the democratically elected legislature, whether or not you agree with it, is not, by definition, fascist. You either don't understand what fascism is, or you choose to throw the word around for propagandistic purposes.

(Ridicule was a favorite weapon of National Socialist propaganda.)

This is the argumentative fallacy known as "guilt by association". Nadia Comaneci bathes in water, and so do I. Does that make me a gymnast?

Look, I hear you when you say that you don't like the bailout. I don't like it either. But that doesn't mean that you're being "oppressed" by it, nor that it is "fascism". Just because you're not getting what you want in the political sphere doesn't mean that something morally wrong is happening. It just means you're in the minority.

I do not accept the claim that anything is impossible

Well, this is where you and I disagree. Many more things are impossible than are possible, and it is therefore our responsibility to be both practical and responsible within the constraints that face us. I hope you don't ever get the idea that flying would be nice while standing on a balcony, because there are plenty of things you can imagine that can never happen, and pursuing them can lead to ruin.


SM