Sebastopol Police Abuse of Power

[Ally]

This morning on my way to take my kid to school, a Sebastopol motorcycle cop pulled me over for no good reason. Well, apparently his reason was the choice and volume of my music. Yep, that’s right, my music.

There’s a little bit of tradition we’ve got where on the way to middle school, our 8th grader gets to choose the music she wants to listen to, and then we turn it up loud…loud enough that when she climbs out of the car at school you can hear the music playing – it’s like her greeting for the morning – “hey guys, I’m here”.

This morning we both chose TOOL, and it was loud enough that when she climbed out of my car, you could hear it. Now, that being said, as soon as I drop her off the music comes down and I pull away and slip back into the dull gleam of the suburban mornings.

I have the consideration and respect to appreciate quiet mornings taking the kids to school and the fact that uber loud music may put people off while they’re in that particular space and that is why the loudness doesn’t last long. With reference to those sentiments, I would have responded kindlier to a request from the cop to just keep the music down a bit next time. That is NOT what transpired however. What happened next was a complete misuse, or rather ABUSE of power on his part.

He proceeded with a direct and cutting assault of my character and personal integrity.

I didn’t catch his name, though the similarity in his appearance to an SS Guard makes him unforgettable. He came up to my window and asked me why I thought it was appropriate to be playing “that kind of music so loud”. (Notice the reference to the type of music, not necessarily the volume.)
I explained that it was just something that my step-daughter and I do in the mornings on the way to school, to which he responded:
“So you just let your kid dictate what you do, you let her make your decisions?”

“Well, no officer, she doesn’t make decisions for me, nor does she dictate any action that is mine. It is simply something she enjoys, to which I give her the liberty while she’s in my car.”

“And what type of example are you setting when you pull up playing that music? What do you want the other children to THINK when they see you – an ADULT – behaving in such a manner? You are supposed to be setting the examples, not letting your kid dictate what you do. I hope you don’t have any other kids!”

Ok, so that’s where he lost me. “I hope you don’t have any other kids”? Are you serious! What kind of example am I setting by playing “that” kind of music – what KIND of music? Rock? Would he have pulled me over if I had been playing Barry Manilow, or Mozart? I don’t think he would have. He may not have even asked me to turn that stuff down. He heard my music and immediately put me in some delinquent category. Then, without provocation or any reference to civil codes, he asked for my license, not my registration.
“When was the last ticket you had?”
(He automatically presumes that I have priors, and when he finds that I do, he uses that to build his case for the defamation of my character.

“I got a speeding ticket in January.”

Then he takes my license and calls for my information over his little radio, and then saunters back to my car.
“You have 2 tickets!...”

“Um, yes I do have 2 tickets...and…”

“And, it makes sense.”

Excuse me. It makes sense?...
It was like he was using my prior tickets as proof that I am a bad person. Because I have been pulled over before and because I listen to loud rock music, I am immediately lacking integrity. So much so, that apparently he felt it necessary to implore me to not have any more children! (Oh my, what would he think if he found I have a 4 year old who likes LED ZEPPELIN!!!) I mean, come on – give me a break!

As far as examples I am setting for my children:

We are all INDEPENDENT THINKERS. We are each responsible for our own actions and choices. I model to my kids respect and consideration for others, and the importance of extending those aspects of self to the world. I model the ability to decide for myself what I do, where I go and who I am. We are not puppets, sleepers walking, busy-bees inhabiting each other’s dreams. We don’t bow down under the oppressive weight of shoulds and supposed-to’s. We rise and we strive, we are our own people and we support each other.

For me to be pulled over when I did NOTHING wrong, because some cop didn’t like my music, is absolutely absurd! And I want people to know about this, to be aware of the possibility that it might not even have anything to do US. It’s a good thing I have white skin and that I drive a nice car, or I’d have been racially and economically profiled. I didn’t do anything wrong, and he knew that. He was trying to provoke me into negative response, and I didn’t take the bait. He couldn’t cite me for ANYTHING because I didn’t allow him to manipulate me. If I’m getting pulled over on the whim of some cop on a power trip, there’s something wrong. To sit and face character assault, to listen while someone questions your moral capacity just because they’re wearing a uniform and they believe they can, is a complete injustice.

He finally gave me back my license and sent me on my way, but not without one more parting shot:
“I’m around this neighborhood a lot…You have a good, safe day ma’am.”

“Yes sir.”

[photolite]

Ally, I believe you should contact the Chief of Police who from my experience is a pretty good guy. I've known a couple of the local neighborhood cops and they've been pretty nice guys too. They could identify this individual by time and place and I expect they'd want to know about intimidating behaviors.
Photo

This morning on my way to take my kid to school, a Sebastopol motorcycle cop pulled me over for no good reason. Well, apparently his reason was the choice and volume of my music. Yep, that’s right, my music.

There’s a little bit of tradition we’ve got where on the way to middle school, our 8th grader gets to choose the music she wants to listen to, and then we turn it up loud…loud enough that when she climbs out of the car at school you can hear the music playing – it’s like her greeting for the morning – “hey guys, I’m here”.

This morning we both chose TOOL, and it was loud enough that when she climbed out of my car, you could hear it. Now, that being said, as soon as I drop her off the music comes down and I pull away and slip back into the dull gleam of the suburban mornings.

I have the consideration and respect to appreciate quiet mornings taking the kids to school and the fact that uber loud music may put people off while they’re in that particular space and that is why the loudness doesn’t last long. With reference to those sentiments, I would have responded kindlier to a request from the cop to just keep the music down a bit next time. That is NOT what transpired however. What happened next was a complete misuse, or rather ABUSE of power on his part.

He proceeded with a direct and cutting assault of my character and personal integrity.

I didn’t catch his name, though the similarity in his appearance to an SS Guard makes him unforgettable. He came up to my window and asked me why I thought it was appropriate to be playing “that kind of music so loud”. (Notice the reference to the type of music, not necessarily the volume.)
I explained that it was just something that my step-daughter and I do in the mornings on the way to school, to which he responded:
“So you just let your kid dictate what you do, you let her make your decisions?”

“Well, no officer, she doesn’t make decisions for me, nor does she dictate any action that is mine. It is simply something she enjoys, to which I give her the liberty while she’s in my car.”

“And what type of example are you setting when you pull up playing that music? What do you want the other children to THINK when they see you – an ADULT – behaving in such a manner? You are supposed to be setting the examples, not letting your kid dictate what you do. I hope you don’t have any other kids!”

Ok, so that’s where he lost me. “I hope you don’t have any other kids”? Are you serious! What kind of example am I setting by playing “that” kind of music – what KIND of music? Rock? Would he have pulled me over if I had been playing Barry Manilow, or Mozart? I don’t think he would have. He may not have even asked me to turn that stuff down. He heard my music and immediately put me in some delinquent category. Then, without provocation or any reference to civil codes, he asked for my license, not my registration.
“When was the last ticket you had?”
(He automatically presumes that I have priors, and when he finds that I do, he uses that to build his case for the defamation of my character.

“I got a speeding ticket in January.”

Then he takes my license and calls for my information over his little radio, and then saunters back to my car.
“You have 2 tickets!...”

“Um, yes I do have 2 tickets...and…”

“And, it makes sense.”

Excuse me. It makes sense?...
It was like he was using my prior tickets as proof that I am a bad person. Because I have been pulled over before and because I listen to loud rock music, I am immediately lacking integrity. So much so, that apparently he felt it necessary to implore me to not have any more children! (Oh my, what would he think if he found I have a 4 year old who likes LED ZEPPELIN!!!) I mean, come on – give me a break!

As far as examples I am setting for my children:

We are all INDEPENDENT THINKERS. We are each responsible for our own actions and choices. I model to my kids respect and consideration for others, and the importance of extending those aspects of self to the world. I model the ability to decide for myself what I do, where I go and who I am. We are not puppets, sleepers walking, busy-bees inhabiting each other’s dreams. We don’t bow down under the oppressive weight of shoulds and supposed-to’s. We rise and we strive, we are our own people and we support each other.

For me to be pulled over when I did NOTHING wrong, because some cop didn’t like my music, is absolutely absurd! And I want people to know about this, to be aware of the possibility that it might not even have anything to do US. It’s a good thing I have white skin and If I’m getting pulled over on the whim of some cop on a power trip, there’s something wrong.that I drive a nice car, or I’d have been racially and economically profiled. I didn’t do anything wrong, and he knew that. He was trying to provoke me into negative response, and I didn’t take the bait. He couldn’t cite me for ANYTHING because I didn’t allow him to manipulate me. To sit and face character assault, to listen while someone questions your moral capacity just because they’re wearing a uniform and they believe they can, is a complete injustice.

He finally gave me back my license and sent me on my way, but not without one more parting shot:
“I’m around this neighborhood a lot…You have a good, safe day ma’am.”

“Yes sir.”

[Sylph]

Ally, I believe you should contact the Chief of Police who from my experience is a pretty good guy. I've known a couple of the local neighborhood cops and they've been pretty nice guys too. They could identify this individual by time and place and I expect they'd want to know about intimidating behaviors.
Photo

That is really shocking, Ally. You should make out a complaint. Those comments he made were totally inappropriate. I have indulged my kids or my nephew with their choice of (obnoxious to me) music. Nothing irresponsible in that! You are sacrificing your 'adult nerve-endings' to give her an encouraging send-off to her school day. I think your custom with your step-daughter is cute and she's lucky to have you for a parent.

Several years ago my daughter and her boyfriend were pulled over at 3 AM in downtown Seb for the stated reason that my daughter had her brights on... with absolutely no other traffic on the streets! The real reason, though I can't prove it, is that her boyfriend was African American and he was leaning against the passenger window and therefore, his race was obvious. The officer was sure he would find 'something' and poked around the car, picking up my daughter's little baggie of coins, taking his time. His attitude was very patronizing. My daughter was livid and did file a report. I don't know what happened with the officer, but he has at least one report in his file.

[dandss1]

This sounds like the same motorcycle cop my family calls Barney Fife. Dresses like a Nazi SS guy. Arrogant to the max. This cop cited me for running a stop sign on Pleasant Hill and Covert Lane, even though I was stopped and waited for a car to cross the intersection before I turned. I pulled forward to turn on to Pleasant Hill and saw him sitting by the bushes so far from the intersection that he could not see if cars were stopped or not. He was looking at the instrument panel on his bike, then looked up and when we made eye contact here he came. Said I ran the stop sign, which I did not. Everything I said was treated with a sarcastic response and not wanting to get abused by this power freak I stopped talking to the guy and took the ticket. I did point out that the bushes hindered his ability to see the line crossing the road or the stop sign and I noticed a few days later, a crew cutting the bushes back.

Less than a week passed and my son took the car to the Ace Hardware. When he came out there was Barney Fife by his motorcycle standing behind our car. My son asked him what the problem was, and the cop asked who the car belonged to. My son said it was his dads car and the cop said the tail light is broken (there was a quarter inch hole in it) and you tell him that I told you to get it fixed, and then he got back on the motorcycle and left. My son said his tone was very billigerent. I had to wonder if he wasn't targeting my vehicle.

Sebastopol has a problem here. This guy is way out of line and is on a power trip. Cops like this are a danger to the community. They do not respect the communty, they only respect power and the ways they can use it against you. If confronted by his superiors he will deny this abuse of authority. His job is to enforce the law, not to interpret the law, not to offer his personal and warped opinions. If I were the lady who had the music problem I would recommend getting a tape recorder or video camera and have it handy. You don't have to video tape him, just let the audio pick up what he is saying. Unfortunately, I suspect that you will have another run in with this same guy.

To bad that Sebastopol has to stoop to hiring this kind of individual.

[MsTerry]

His job is to enforce the law, not to interpret the law,

Playing music too loud in your car is against the law.
Driving around with a broken tail light is against the law too.

[dandss1]

Playing music too loud in your car is against the law.
Driving around with a broken tail light is against the law too.

Ohhhhh I am such a criminal! Shame on me!

Still does not justify this guys attitude, nor the remarks he made to the first poster, nor the remarks he made to me. The guy comes across as an arrogant bully with a badge. Simple as that.

[ladybug5]

I am really amused at how entitled we feel to belittle the
police in our community who have done such a incredible job. We have low crime compared to most of California,
very little gang activity and a really safe community. So he was in a bad mood and didn't treat you with the respect you would have liked and obviously deserve. Get over it.

Abuse of power is not being arrogant. He didn't strip search you because you look like a gang member.. He didnt throw your skinny butt in jail. He didn't taser you?

Personally, I appreciate the vigilance of keeping loud
base music down. I hate to go into certain Santa Rosa
neighborhoods for that reason. I live close to town and
cringe when I hear the loud base music....

I'd be in a bad mood too, if I had to deal all day with people who felt like they should be treated with kid gloves... So get your tail light fixed and show some respect to people who live in the neighborhood by turning down your speakers.

And to all the others that are insulted by this " abuse of power" , Try walking a day in their shoes and then get back to me.

[Malene]

Hey Ally,

I too think you should make a report about it. The more reports this dude gets in his file, the better a chance he will get his butt canned.

And to Ladybug - the police are there ostencibly to "protect and to serve", not to bully and intimidate.

We have a right to expect to be treated with respect at all times. It doesnt matter what kind of mood the cop is in - if he cant treat us with respect, then he cant do his job and need to look for another one.

The police are ethically obligated to treat even criminals with respect.

Yes - as a private reasonably law abiding citizen I expect to be treated with kindness and respect by the civil servants my taxes pay for. I see no reason why not.

It seems to me the more complaints this abusive cop has on his record the faster he will have to move in to a job that better suits his personality - maybe sitting alone in a server farm, so all he can is try to intimidate computers might work really well for him.

Malene

[Ally]

Playing music too loud in your car is against the law.
Driving around with a broken tail light is against the law too.

Well thank you MsTerry... Where would we be without you and your literal dosing on devil's advocacy? If you could, please pay a little closer attention to the real issues...

In as much as this is about the absurdity of pulling someone over for loud music, it is more about the way this cop conducted himself. He was completely inappropriate in the manner in which he spoke to me, in his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive.

He is a poor representation of the Sebastopol Police Department, and I'd even go so far as to say he is a hazard to his organization.

[shellebelle]

I agree.

I grew up with police officers and not by choice by grace.

I was the kid on the playground who sat and played while the local teen boy sat close by. Then watched the local cops pulling up and the man in the bushes being arrested. Meanwhile my "friend officers" sat in the distance calling in the man in the bushes. This was a reality for me for a number of years on going. I was allowed to play and be safe while diligently watched and protected by cops.

I am still the girl who gets followed home from Sebastopol first by Sebastopol police, then by CHP. I feel blessed by their diligence.

I feel blessed that I can walk around Sebastopol and not be in any fear. I feel blessed that I can drive and feel safe. I am safe, I am secure, I am blessed by their presence. I am blessed that I can live a life of "luxury" thanks to their willingness to put their lives on the line every day.

I am really amused at how entitled we feel to belittle the
police in our community who have done such a incredible job. We have low crime compared to most of California,
very little gang activity and a really safe community. So he was in a bad mood and didn't treat you with the respect you would have liked and obviously deserve. Get over it.

Abuse of power is not being arrogant. He didn't strip search you because you look like a gang member.. He didnt throw your skinny butt in jail. He didn't taser you?

Personally, I appreciate the vigilance of keeping loud
base music down. I hate to go into certain Santa Rosa
neighborhoods for that reason. I live close to town and
cringe when I hear the loud base music....

I'd be in a bad mood too, if I had to deal all day with people who felt like they should be treated with kid gloves... So get your tail light fixed and show some respect to people who live in the neighborhood by turning down your speakers.

And to all the others that are insulted by this " abuse of power" , Try walking a day in their shoes and then get back to me.

[shellebelle]

I appreciate your points and your view but I have yet to hear you appreciate the rest of the police officers who do their jobs well. There is often one bad day or one bad employee it happens no matter the business.

On the other hand courtesy is always nice and appreciated.

I am feeling that placing it on Wacco is NOT a better option to using appropriate channels. It feels much like slamming the police department of Sebastopol. And I am feeling that it is not necessarily the best example to set for anyone. If you are willing to take the time and energy to "report" it here then I agree you should invest at least that much time and energy in using the appropriate channels to "report" it to those who can make a change for the better.

I have a theory spend time in appreciation for the good and the lessers will find their own way out of your life space.

Well thank you MsTerry... Where would we be without you and your literal dosing on devil's advocacy? If you could, please pay a little closer attention to the real issues...

In as much as this is about the absurdity of pulling someone over for loud music, it is more about the way this cop conducted himself. He was completely inappropriate in the manner in which he spoke to me, in his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive.

He is a poor representation of the Sebastopol Police Department, and I'd even go so far as to say he is a hazard to his organization.

[Malene]

Hello Ladybug,

As I continued surfing wacco this post really stuck in my craw.

First of all I did not see the original post as belittling all police officers. It told of one officer who acted unprofessionally.

I think a post like this (together with reporting the incident to the police) as serving a purpose. In this case it might be that this cop has mistreated others, and if they start to compare notes and then each individual reports the bad behavior by the cop it can really have an impact.

As to having a bad day. I remember as a kid talking to my dad about a couple of teachers who really didnt do a good job. Of course we all know how next to impossible it is to get teachers fired. He suggested that I document the bad work of those specific teachers. Now that I look back, I think that was of course a great suggestion. I remember the shock waves going through the teaching community though - they were held to standards that most people are held to and they were in shock.

Here is the thing - if someone has a job in the private sector and that person has a lot of "bad days" that impact their performance - guess what. Yes - we all know it. Bye Bye!

For me it is even more extreme - I rarely get a second chance with a client. I screw up, I lose the business. Its simple that way.

I would quickly be out of business if I had bad days all over the place with my customers.

How does this relate to the cop in question? Well - he does not have a right to mistreat one single citizen. Not once, not ever. He is given power so that there will be quite a bit of room for mistreatment, and the first time he misuses that power he is in the wrong.

Now -we all know it is as hard to get rid of public servants as it is to get rid of bad teachers. They are given a lot of room to have bad days.

So when a report like this is posted - and someone says "yes, that person has been rude to me as well", then that cop has misused the power given to him more than once.

I think the cop should be held to the same standards as other people. Maybe they should even be held to higher standards - given how much power they are given.

This means if a cop has bad days all over the place then it is only reasonable to expect him to lose his business.

As far as entitlement goes - I absolutely feel entitled to be treated with respect at all times.

I feel entitled to say out loud "thats not ok", when someone doesnt treat me with respect. I feel entitled to use whatever vehicle I prefer to use to express myself when I say "thats not ok".

I feel entitled to expect that the police that my tax money pays for stays professional. Should any of them come to me for a massage I expect they feel entitled to me being professional and good at what I do.

I just hold them to the same standards.

Malene

I am really amused at how entitled we feel to belittle the
police in our community who have done such a incredible job. We have low crime compared to most of California,
very little gang activity and a really safe community. So he was in a bad mood and didn't treat you with the respect you would have liked and obviously deserve. Get over it.

Abuse of power is not being arrogant. He didn't strip search you because you look like a gang member.. He didnt throw your skinny butt in jail. He didn't taser you?

Personally, I appreciate the vigilance of keeping loud
base music down. I hate to go into certain Santa Rosa
neighborhoods for that reason. I live close to town and
cringe when I hear the loud base music....

I'd be in a bad mood too, if I had to deal all day with people who felt like they should be treated with kid gloves... So get your tail light fixed and show some respect to people who live in the neighborhood by turning down your speakers.

And to all the others that are insulted by this " abuse of power" , Try walking a day in their shoes and then get back to me.

[MsTerry]

Hi Ally,
Thanks for your attempt at belittling me
I like it how you think that YOUR feelings are REAL issues and the fact that you are setting a bad example (by breaking the law) to a whole school is in your mind "absurdity"
Do you really think trying to act cool for an 8th grader should be a top-priority in a role model's life???
How are you going to top this? Play it louder from now on???
Sound-pollution is a serious issue.

I suggest you pay closer attention to REAL issues, including re-reading my post so that you can see for yourself that I responded to the absurd accusation that "the cop's job is to enforce the law, not to interpret the law".

You got a lecture, would you prefer a ticket next time?

Well thank you MsTerry... Where would we be without you and your literal dosing on devil's advocacy? If you could, please pay a little closer attention to the real issues...

In as much as this is about the absurdity of pulling someone over for loud music, it is more about the way this cop conducted himself. He was completely inappropriate in the manner in which he spoke to me, in his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive.

He is a poor representation of the Sebastopol Police Department, and I'd even go so far as to say he is a hazard to his organization.

[ladybug5]

Im wondering if there was any disrespect given to the cop?
Did you have a respectful and cooperative attitude?
Did you roll your eyes? Sneer? Make any comments that
would be considered "attitude" ...............

"his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive."
Was his "sauntering" up to your car abusive?

Sounds like you have a bit of an attitude,, He didnt even
give you a citation which he could have. Im not sure how
you were abused. If it was so unprofessional ,, go make an incident report.

[MsTerry]

Thanks Ladybug,
I was just about to edit my post to that effect.
It dawned on me that she is belittling the cop and me.
That looks like a pattern to me.
In both stated cases the "bad" cop didn't issue a citation.
I could have used a cop like that last week!

Im wondering if there was any disrespect given to the cop?
Did you have a respectful and cooperative attitude?
Did you roll your eyes? Sneer? Make any comments that
would be considered "attitude" ...............

"his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive."
Was his "sauntering" up to your car abusive?

Sounds like you have a bit of an attitude,, He didnt even
give you a citation which he could have. Im not sure how
you were abused. If it was so unprofessional ,, go make an incident report.

[Ally]

I am really amused at how entitled we feel to belittle the
police in our community who have done such a incredible job. We have low crime compared to most of California,
very little gang activity and a really safe community. So he was in a bad mood and didn't treat you with the respect you would have liked and obviously deserve. Get over it.

Abuse of power is not being arrogant. He didn't strip search you because you look like a gang member.. He didnt throw your skinny butt in jail. He didn't taser you?

Personally, I appreciate the vigilance of keeping loud
base music down. I hate to go into certain Santa Rosa
neighborhoods for that reason. I live close to town and
cringe when I hear the loud base music....

I'd be in a bad mood too, if I had to deal all day with people who felt like they should be treated with kid gloves... So get your tail light fixed and show some respect to people who live in the neighborhood by turning down your speakers.

And to all the others that are insulted by this " abuse of power" , Try walking a day in their shoes and then get back to me.

Let me address some key points of your offered opinion, Ladybug5.

I'm not belittling the police in our community. I am pointing out the abusive nature that one cop demonstrated to me. At no time have I ever made reference to the entire force - I'm not taking the actions of this one cop and using them to define the integrity of the entire Sebastopol police force. I appreciate our peace officers, I am thankful for the space they help to maintain in our city - the safety and security that many of us feel.

I live in a neighborhood too, and sometimes people play their music super loud when they drive down the road.
I do not, however, put them in some delinquent category because they like loud music.

This goes far beyond being treated without respect, and for you to tell me to "get over it" proves a lack of understanding, especially when it is followed with a statement about abuse of power not being arrogant. Excuse me, what? Are you serious? This cop's overbearing exaggeration of his own importance - because he wears a police uniform - in the form of manipulation and browbeating language is NOT abusive!!!???
Wow...

No, he didn’t taser me, or arrest me, or strip search me...and that's not the point. Police officers work for us - the community members, and they need to be held to high standards given the amount of power they have in the community, and just as we treat them with respect, they need to treat us with respect.

[Ally]

Im wondering if there was any disrespect given to the cop?
Did you have a respectful and cooperative attitude?
Did you roll your eyes? Sneer? Make any comments that
would be considered "attitude" ...............

That's a great question, one that I was hoping (and planning) to address.
I was quite honestly, very respectful to this police officer, so any and all responses to his interrogation were "yes sir, no sir". I was very cooperative, not snide in the least (seems to me, that had I been rude to him, he would have given me a ticket). I listened to what he had to say, all be it badgering and bullying.
His behavior was his own, and it was completely unprovoked.

[Sylph]

I'm beginning to think it's not safe to post an issue of concern on Wacco because the poster is likely to be raked over the coals and denigrated.
Ally was accused of 'belittling' the police of Sebastopol. (No, not all of them, just one)
She was told to 'get over it'. How sensitive!
Something about her 'skinny butt'. Take that as a compliment, Ally!
She was criticized for wanting to be 'treated with kid gloves', when she only wanted the respect we all deserve.
She was accused of 'slamming the police department', (No, see above)
It was implied that if she 'appreciated the good' then bad things wouldn't happen to her, so really it was her fault. (I'm paraphrasing and interpreting).
She was chided for 'breaking the law in front of the whole school' and that 'her top priority was to act cool for 8th graders'. How demeaning!
Last but not least, she was told she must 'have attitude' and had probably rolled her eyes or sneered at the officer and so deserved her abuse.

Nice work, conscious community!

I have had very good experiences with the Sebastopol Police and respect and admire what they do. I too feel safe when out and about at any time of day or night and I'm grateful for that.
Malene made good points about the officer having a 'bad day'. As a nurse, I am not allowed to have a bad day and insult a patient. I'd be fired and I'd deserve to be fired. Imagine if I had a patient (who was a mother) I didn't approve of and told her that I hoped she didn't have any more children at home since she was such a bad example!
The officer's comments were inappropriate and he sullies the reputation of all the other good cops. Maybe he needs a conference with his boss to remember how to relate better to the public.

[Malene]

I have received a few emails in regards to this conversation send directly to me. The emails inform me that I "only hear one side of the encounter".

First of all let me start out by saying I am fairly smart - yes, really my IQ is quite high. I am fully aware that I have only heard one side of this story. When I respond to a story like this - and especially respond publicly it is for a few reasons.

I know for an absolute fact that sometimes some cops behave disrespectfully. My public response is to show that generally when cops behave disrespectfully I believe they should be reported.

Now - the only information I have is one persons story. Maybe the whole story is a lie. Maybe she never met the cop as she says. Maybe she did get another ticket. Maybe she was incredibly rude to the cop... Maybe, maybe, maybe.

I cant respond to maybe's, I can only respond to what is in the post. Based on what is in the post I think it would be extremely appropriate to report this guy, which was my first post on the topic. And I want to offer my personal support and understanding to Ally that it was most likely a hurtful, stressful and maybe even intimidating situation she found herself in.

Now - assuming that by and large the post is true, I know a few things.

I know that a public servant in a position of power felt it was appropriate to say the following things to a mother:

“And what type of example are you setting when you pull up playing that music? What do you want the other children to THINK when they see you – an ADULT – behaving in such a manner? You are supposed to be setting the examples, not letting your kid dictate what you do. I hope you don’t have any other kids!”

.

Why would any human being tell a mother:"I hope you dont have any other kids"?

I think a statement like this is designed to hurt and to denigrate another human.

When is it ok to make such statements? Is it ok when the playground bully decides to pick on the kid who is different? Is it ok in the work place? Is it ok when a teacher denigrates a kid? Is it ok when a doctor gets frustrated with a patient for say - being overweight? Is it ok for a nurse to get pissed at a patient?

When is it ok to denigrate a mother? When is it ok to not at the very least say "Thank You" to a step mother who makes an effort to take care of someone elses kid? Tell me - when is a statement like that ever ok?

When are denigrating statements specifically designed to hurt someone not abusive? When are any kind of denigrating comments ok between human beings?

Why should we not expect to be entitled to kindness?

I dont really care what Ally may or may not have done. In fact - as far as I understand the police code the police are supposed to be courteous even to hardened criminals.

You cant hardly call someone playing music a little too loud a "hardened criminal", and as I said even if she was she had a right to be treated with courtesy and respect.

(now having said this - I would like to go on record as one of those sound sensitive people who feels loud music, especially in the morning is a major disturbance that given the choice I would kinda like not to have to deal with)

Malene

Im wondering if there was any disrespect given to the cop?
Did you have a respectful and cooperative attitude?
Did you roll your eyes? Sneer? Make any comments that
would be considered "attitude" ...............

"his assassination of my personal integrity, and whether or not he had due cause (based on civil codes??) to pull me over, his treatment of me was abusive."
Was his "sauntering" up to your car abusive?

Sounds like you have a bit of an attitude,, He didnt even
give you a citation which he could have. Im not sure how
you were abused. If it was so unprofessional ,, go make an incident report.

[MsTerry]

Sylph,
calm down
remember there are always TWO sides to a story.
We don't know what the cop said, only what Ally heard
Now only judging from how she reacted to my post, I think there is a lot of interpreting going on as to what the cop said and did.
Just look at the fact that she thinks it is OK to blast music, even if it is against the law.
It is quite revealing.

I'm beginning to think it's not safe to post an issue of concern on Wacco because the poster is likely to be raked over the coals and denigrated.
Ally was accused of 'belittling' the police of Sebastopol. (No, not all of them, just one)
She was told to 'get over it'. How sensitive!
Something about her 'skinny butt'. Take that as a compliment, Ally!
She was criticized for wanting to be 'treated with kid gloves', when she only wanted the respect we all deserve.
She was accused of 'slamming the police department', (No, see above)
It was implied that if she 'appreciated the good' then bad things wouldn't happen to her, so really it was her fault. (I'm paraphrasing and interpreting).
She was chided for 'breaking the law in front of the whole school' and that 'her top priority was to act cool for 8th graders'. How demeaning!
Last but not least, she was told she must 'have attitude' and had probably rolled her eyes or sneered at the officer and so deserved her abuse.

Nice work, conscious community!

I have had very good experiences with the Sebastopol Police and respect and admire what they do. I too feel safe when out and about at any time of day or night and I'm grateful for that.
Malene made good points about the officer having a 'bad day'. As a nurse, I am not allowed to have a bad day and insult a patient. I'd be fired and I'd deserve to be fired. Imagine if I had a patient (who was a mother) I didn't approve of and told her that I hoped she didn't have any more children at home since she was such a bad example!
The officer's comments were inappropriate and he sullies the reputation of all the other good cops. Maybe he needs a conference with his boss to remember how to relate better to the public.

[MsTerry]

She was chided for 'breaking the law in front of the whole school' and that 'her top priority was to act cool for 8th graders'. How demeaning!

uhm, Sylph
Are you trying to imply that it is OK for an adult to break the law in front of the whole school?
Are you trying to imply that Ally was not trying to act cool by playing the music loud only in the presence of her daughter (her words)?
If you are not, please explain to me what part is demeaning?

[nicofrog]

Hello
what have we here
"skinny butt?" was there a picture on that posting I missed
I would say YOUR posting was an abuse of power,accept, thats right,your NAME isn't up there and like a tiny dog locked in a car you can bark a lot behind your little computer screen.
How dare you call people names you don't even know on this board.
I really wish we could just flag you like they do on craigs
Nico

I am really amused at how entitled we feel to belittle the
police in our community who have done such a incredible job. We have low crime compared to most of California,
very little gang activity and a really safe community. So he was in a bad mood and didn't treat you with the respect you would have liked and obviously deserve. Get over it.

Abuse of power is not being arrogant. He didn't strip search you because you look like a gang member.. He didnt throw your skinny butt in jail. He didn't taser you?

Personally, I appreciate the vigilance of keeping loud
base music down. I hate to go into certain Santa Rosa
neighborhoods for that reason. I live close to town and
cringe when I hear the loud base music....

I'd be in a bad mood too, if I had to deal all day with people who felt like they should be treated with kid gloves... So get your tail light fixed and show some respect to people who live in the neighborhood by turning down your speakers.

And to all the others that are insulted by this " abuse of power" , Try walking a day in their shoes and then get back to me.

[Sylph]

Are you trying to imply that Ally was not trying to act cool by playing the music loud only in the presence of her daughter (her words)?
If you are not, please explain to me what part is demeaning?

OK, I'll try, but I doubt this is a constructive exercise.

I like it how you think that YOUR feelings are REAL issues and the fact that you are setting a bad example (by breaking the law) to a whole school is in your mind "absurdity"
Do you really think trying to act cool for an 8th grader should be a top-priority in a role model's life???

Ms Terry, you are assuming that the decibel level of ‘Tool’ (or whatever hideous-to-grown-ups music it was) was indeed so loud as to be against the law. Maybe it wasn’t that loud and the cop just didn’t like the genre of music. If it really was so loud as to be against noise statutes, all Ally needed was a respectful warning, not a series of insults. You are insinuating that ‘acting cool’ is a top priority’ for her as a parent. That is demeaning. This little custom of letting the step-daughter choose her music on school mornings is a tiny aspect of her total parenting, for all you know, but you slam her for not being a good role model. If you were called a bad parent by a cop, your Feelings would be hurt too! Let’s give fellow Waccos the benefit of the doubt and be a little more supportive!

[Bryan]

A police officer is trained to be respectful.
Some police officers need more training.
This one sure seems to need it.

The initial post said that all the officer needed to do was ask her (the driver) to keep it down next time. To explicitly accuse someone of being a bad parent is way out of line for the given situation. To say "I hope you don't have any other children" is offensive.

This guy needs a complaint in his file each and every time he acts disrespectful.

Most police would agree with that approach to resolve this compaint, as they do not want the public to be given a bad impression based upon one officer, and in our little town, probably the Chief already knows exactly which officer was involved before being told.

That said, we have had real issues of police power causing people in this county to die. Were those criminally abusive situations? Maybe.
Do we need a separate group to investigate true police abuse? Maybe.

In any case, this one was not criminal - it was only another ego trip on this one cop's personal itinerary.

My uncle used to be an Oakland policeman. That is a tough town.
I personally have not had trouble with any particular cop in the Bay Area. And I hope not too. There are appropriate ways of talking with police that they in turn respect.

Police in Sebastopol should know the difference between telling a mother to tone down the radio and handling a true criminal suspect. They should be looking at each situation carefully to ensure everyone's safety.
In today's world, a gang banger can be in any car so it is dangerous to be a cop.

That said, I still think this cop has an attitude problem and little things set him off - like the black guy hanging out a car window. Maybe he would have pulled over a white guy doing the same, who knows? Assuming the woman driver here is white, and assuming this cop was white - would he have still said to a black woman- "I hope you don't have any other children?" If he had, the racism inherent in that statement would be completely intolerable. As such, it is STILL intolerable without the racist element.

Fyi - If they decide to let him go, he will just end up somewhere else.

If someone on an ego trip does pull you over, and tries to puff themselves up, just remember this about any jerk - tomorrow, they will STILL be a jerk! That's the best payoff you can get.

Be as polite as humanly possible and try not to laugh out loud at them for being such a jerk - it makes them more of a jerk and you could end up getting arrested for laughing at a jerk!

Wait them out, and THEN laugh at them after you have left 'the scene of the crime'! (not fastening seatbelt, not turning your signal on a left turn, or another similarly huge violation of the Civil Code.)

[Braggi]

uhm, Sylph
Are you trying to imply that it is OK for an adult to break the law in front of the whole school?
Are you trying to imply that Ally was not trying to act cool by playing the music loud only in the presence of her daughter (her words)? ...

MsTerry, you are sounding a bit like a parrot here squawking away that Ally was breaking a law. Do you know what law she was breaking? Do you, in fact, know she had her music at a level that constitutes breaking that law? Some communities don't even have noise ordinances. Most require complaints from other citizens before a noise ordinance is considered broken. I don't think anyone complained about Ally's music.

So, I think you're wrong. Perhaps you could support your statements before repeating your allegation again.

-Jeff

PS. I don't think it's illegal to "act cool."

[MsTerry]

Ms Terry, You are insinuating that ‘acting cool’ is a top priority’ for her as a parent. .

Had Ally said, I play my music too loud so that my daughter can impress her classmates, but I know I shouldn't really do that, that would be an honest assessment of the situation.
Had she followed that up with the story of an overbearing cop, the whole thing would have been believable.

This little custom of letting the step-daughter choose her music on school mornings is a tiny aspect of her total parenting, for all you know, but you slam her for not being a good role model.

Sylph
It is not that I object to what kind of music she plays, but that she uses the volume level as her personal business card.

There’s a little bit of tradition we’ve got where on the way to middle school, our 8th grader gets to choose the music she wants to listen to, and then we turn it up loud…loud enough that when she climbs out of the car at school you can hear the music playing – it’s like her greeting for the morning – “hey guys, I’m here”

.
I have to catch myself not trying to act too cool with my 8th grader, caus yes, they are at that stage were it feels that I'm going to lose my baby if I don't act at their level.

If you were called a bad parent by a cop, your Feelings would be hurt too!

if I was called a bad parent by a cop, and I was setting a bad example for my kids, I would tell them that he is right.
Even if I didn't like his behavior.
It is nice and easy to point out other's faults, but it is more beneficial to look at our own mistakes.
I think the following quote shows Ally's state of mind while talking to the cop

I live in a neighborhood too, and sometimes people play their music super loud when they drive down the road.
I do not, however, put them in some delinquent category because they like loud music.

Maybe it wasn’t that loud and the cop just didn’t like the genre of music.

Frankly, I think the guy might have liked the music, that's why he let her go.........................

[MsTerry]

.
Perhaps you could support your statements before repeating your allegation again.

-Jeff

Last time I went to traffic school, 9 years ago, I was told that if you can feel the bass from the car in front of you, they are breaking the law.
So, bring me up to speed.

[shellebelle]

I did not see that "loud base" was part of what Ally said but since the subject is up

Did the school also mention that "felt" and "heard" base have been known to disrupt heart beats and thus are EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous to those with arrhythmia and those with pace makers.

Remember not everyone has diagnosed arrhythmia. People can go through life for years and not know they have a heart condition.

Last time I went to traffic school, 9 years ago, I was told that if you can feel the bass from the car in front of you, they are breaking the law.
So, bring me up to speed.

[nicofrog]

Oh My God,
and Get Out of Town:
etc.... how these authority fearing citizens are missing the point here!
They really think Ally is a punk blasting through town abusing the neighborhood .
I doubt I would have even noticed her car had I been there at the time.
WHAT ABOUT HER CHILD where are you people???,maybe the kid was LATE to school with an embarrassing and difficult story to try and tell, an adult male stranger(cop or no cop) was just being mean to her mother, who was sincerely trying to enjoy life with her for a second in George Bushulvania here.
Lord. What if the other kids saw it go down, and questioned her about it "oh the cop said I have a bad mother" IS THIS THE ROLE YOU WANT The authorities in our community to have THERAPISTS ?
What if I was the dad dropping my kid off and I drove her in on my HARLEY, I could crank it a bit when I was leaving and get 100 more decibals than her stereo.....oh well, that's ok, cause California has a special LOOP HOLE in the sound ordinances just for Harleys folks! betcha' didn't know that,seems Harley sells a lotta bikes to COPS you see, and they kind of make a pretty big contribution to the police retirement fund..
SO I hope that same cop comes to the school parking lot next week
and watches carefully as parents leave the lot... You see there's a LAW in California against crossing a sidewalk, when entering a street out of a parking area( this includes your home) without stopping first. I'll bet that cop can stop a lot of people, and explain to their children what bad drivers they are, how they are "scofflaws" next only to terrorists. Better yet he could ticket them for roll stopping.( a real stop is three seconds) and bring in some revenue,heck if they were rude and protested I'm sure He's within rights to book them, impound the car ,search and retain the contents,and retain any minors on board if there is not an adult to accompany them.
I'll bet there's a computer at the police station, and by now they are all reading this like crazy, I'd like to see a posting from the Police chief here, like the one we got on the Graton Fire Siren Issue as to how we should look at this incident. Personally,I;m sorry to say, I believe there is a wave of approval for "crack downs" going on in our country, and it Ain't about Gang violence , or meth labs, its about training every day people to submit respectfully.
I have Respect for law,and the people who work in positions of "authority" in our country. and true peace is achieved by MUTUAL respect, not authoritarianism.
Not hiding behind a screen with a fake name
Nico
If you have a strong opinion, be strong enough to say who you are.
You are not required to answer any questions a police officer asks you accept your i.d. auto information, and what you think you were doing regarding the infraction. if he asks your mothers maiden name
"good question sir" how dare you play that music? " good question sir" etc.
he may Not search your car or person without probable cause or a warrant.
There are a million dinky little laws you may not know about. I suggest you learn them and be very careful not to break them in the next 6 months

[Barry]

Let me point out that the point of this topic is not whether its OK or legal to play loud music in your car. Even if you a doing something blatantly illegal and you show some respect and cooperation to the law officer, you should be treated with respect.

I am grateful for the Police's essential role in protecting us all. They are given a lot of authority and trust by us and thus must act beyond reproach. It's totally unacceptable for them to abuse that power and trust in any way, not just in extreme ways (strip search, taser, etc.) but in any way! How would your feel about your doctor and shrink or your kid's teacher taking advantage of the trust we give them?

I had a similar encounter with "Sebastopol finest" (which is what they should be!). I was driving south from downtown Sebastopol around 11pm one evening earlier this year. I was tired and anxious to be home. It was clear weather and the streets were empty. I have no doubt that I was driving over the speed limit, maybe 35-40mph in the 25mph limit area that extends a fair bit south of downtown Sebastopol on S. Main Street.

I was pulled over and the older policeman (quite possibly the same one Ally experienced) knew he had me and knew I wanted to avoid getting a ticket. He proceeded to "play" with me for an extended time, quite like a cat playing with a caught mouse. I made some passing reference to a "speed trap" and since it was the only thing that he could construe any sign of disrespect, he proceeded to play power trips with me for 15 and 20 minutes coming back time and time again to my "speed trap" comment, despite my repeated apologies and acknowledgment that it wasn't a speed trap but rather an appropriate 25mph zone. He seemed to delight in the game as was FAR from professional or respectful. He did not give me a ticket. I so wish I had the presence of mind to record his badge number.

I have known the police chief Jeff Weaver fore many years and he is a good man. I'm sure he would be aghast if he had witnessed how one of his officers acted. I hope Ally will file a formal complaint, or at least speak with Jeff Weaver about it, and if she does I will join her as well.