I am bisexual

[Valley Oak]

I have decided to come out of the closet and publicly declare my bisexuality.

So there!


Edward

[MsTerry]

what do you mean by "I am bisexual"

I have decided to come out of the closet and publicly declare my bisexuality.

So there!


Edward

[Braggi]

So ... ... ?

Everybody is potentially bisexual, so, you're a unique individual. Just like everybody else.

Without context, Edward, your statement looks like little more than a poor boundary definition.

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

I meant to say, among other things, that my sexual orientation includes, to some degree, the male and the female genders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual

Edward

what do you mean by "I am bisexual"

[Zeno Swijtink]

I meant to say, among other things, that my sexual orientation includes, to some degree, the male and the female genders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual

Edward

When somebody "comes out" as you do here, they often are saying something more than just making a fact about their sexual interest public.

They seem to be also saying "I am open for expressions of interest to hit the sack with me. Please approach me with your vital statistics."

[Valley Oak]

I'll try to answer both your post and Jeff's (Braggi) here.

I posted this with the idea that Harvey Milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk) had about coming out in the open and being proud, not sniveling and shaking in fear in a dark corner, intimidated by hate and bigotry. Harvey Milk was openly gay, something almost unheard of at the time in the 1970's. Milk ran for public office (San Francisco supervisor) and won! Milk was and continues to be a shining example of courage for all queer folk.

The gay community present at the wake of Milk (he was murdered by a bigot, Dan White), many gays were inspired by Milk's leadership to finally come out themselves, publicly, and say out loud that they were gay. This helped the gay community put not only the shame and the fear behind them but also to defy the homophobic society that murdered Milk and persecutes the gay community.

I'm very sorry to see that my coming out (especially here in the Wacco Kingdom that I assumed was "progressive") has had only negative interpretations and none of the positive ones. I did not post my message with any intent whatsoever to go "cruising" or get picked up or hit on by anyone. Nor do I feel, as Jeff says, that I have exhibited "poor boundaries."

The intent behind my post was to express pride in my status as a human being and to be able to do so without degradation or reproach. Unfortunately, that was not the case. I expected too much from this community.

At least I wasn't criticized for "being a pervert" or told that I am going to burn in hell because the bible says so (which reminds me that the bible is good to have around when you run out of toilet paper).

Sincerely,

Edward

When somebody "comes out" as you do here, they often are saying something more than just making a fact about their sexual interest public.

They seem to be also saying "I am open for expressions of interest to hit the sack with me. Please approach me with your vital statistics."

[Zeno Swijtink]

I'm very sorry to see that my coming out (especially here in the Wacco Kingdom that I assumed was "progressive") has had only negative interpretations and none of the positive ones. I did not post my message with any intent whatsoever to go "cruising" or get picked up or hit on by anyone. Nor do I feel, as Jeff says, that I have exhibited "poor boundaries."

The intent behind my post was to express pride in my status as a human being and to be able to do so without degradation or reproach. Unfortunately, that was not the case. I expected too much from this community.

For the very reason that I knew you assumed (or know) that we are "progressive" I assumed you couldn't come out to get applause or express pride for coming out.

Come on! What's the big deal? We're all somewhere on the multidimensional manifold of being sexual in this way or another. Where's the accomplishment?

[Willie Lumplump]

Come on! What's the big deal? We're all somewhere on the multidimensional manifold of being sexual in this way or another. Where's the accomplishment?

Yeah! What's lacking here is specifics. Maybe if you tell us a story we'll appreciate your accomplishments more.

[shellebelle]

I have always considered "coming out" to be something that allows those you love to accept and acknowledge your personal choices. On the other hand "going social or public" has always been a way to allow and yes even announce with hopes of interaction and conversation.

On the other hand being publicly bi-sexual is not that unusual or even adventuresome these days versus being public about it in the 1970s. Same with nudism and polyamour even. Its not a shock and really has lost the WOW factor which you seem to have been looking for.

Are you also an exhibitionist - that might explain your need to be public.

I'll try to answer both your post and Jeff's (Braggi) here.

I posted this with the idea that Harvey Milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk) had about coming out in the open and being proud, not sniveling and shaking in fear in a dark corner, intimidated by hate and bigotry.

I'm very sorry to see that my coming out (especially here in the Wacco Kingdom that I assumed was "progressive") has had only negative interpretations and none of the positive ones. I did not post my message with any intent whatsoever to go "cruising" or get picked up or hit on by anyone. Nor do I feel, as Jeff says, that I have exhibited "poor boundaries."

[shellebelle]

Specifics - hmmm . . .

Well after years of attraction to the much applauded penis (still a deep running passion) I found curves to be appealing. After a long struggle with guilt and several bad tries at being bi; I found someone special and ta da! My spouse and I shared her for a number of years whenever we possibly could. This allowed me to realize that I loved multiple partners in an open and sort of monogamous relationship. No one night flings; true personal relationships - lovers vs one night stands. In the early process I found nudism, recently polyamour seems to fit well - I "came out" in 1993 about nudism to 100% of my family (went social in 1992) and in 2002 about my lovers to 90% of my family (somethings your 1930s parents just shouldn't know) and I went social! I look forward to my next growth step! My family celebrates my sexuality and accepts me, who could ask for more.

How's that? Do I get applause?

Yeah! What's lacking here is specifics. Maybe if you tell us a story we'll appreciate your accomplishments more.

[Zeno Swijtink]

How's that? Do I get applause?

Only if and when you move to the Other United States and spread your libertine impulses there.

[shellebelle]

LOL - Theres another US- Does Bush know?

Only if and when you move to the Other United States and spread your libertine impulses there.

[Zeno Swijtink]

Does Bush know?

Of course. It voted him in!

[shellebelle]

LOL - I doubt that. That was Congress wasn't it?

Of course. It voted him in!

[Zeno Swijtink]

LOL - I doubt that. That was Congress wasn't it?

No, I was thinking about the second time. It was an interesting event. Before that the Rest of The World still made a difference between the American People and the American Administration. That distinction showed itself to be untenable.

[shellebelle]

Yeh well some (okay most) people follow much better than they lead. Sad fact.

No, I was thinking about the second time. It was an interesting event. Before that the Rest of The World still made a difference between the American People and the American Administration. That distinction showed itself to be untenable.

[Hummingbear]

Specifics - hmmm . . .

[story snipped]

How's that? Do I get applause?

I think the request for specifics was addressed to Valley Oak, who hasn't responded. (Unless there's a glitch in the threading?)

Okay, there are probably a lot of us on this list for whom bisexuality is old hat. But it appears to me that Valley Oak (edward) was taking what he felt to be a big step in starting to talk about it. So I'd like to thank him for coming out, just as I'd be grateful whenever any sentient being becomes more self-realized.

I think Willie has a good point; it would be helpful to have more specifics, so we know why V.O. is motivated to emulate Harvey Milk, 30 years later

But then... those who questioned the appropriateness of Valley Oaks' announcement were lacking in specifics, too. By poor boundaries, Jeff, do you mean that V.O. should be more selective about whom he discusses sexuality with? Can you give your ideas about how to go about this?

Zeno's suggestion that going public is the equivalent of soliciting sex seems retrogressive to me. That's very close to saying that you shouldn't discuss sex because it makes you a slut. Or that only your sexual partners (or potential sexual partners) should hear about it. How very un-liberated.

My reaction to VO's first post was perplexity (what is the context of this excitement?), but I was very disappointed to see followups that seem to treat it disrespectfully.
.
Hummingbear

[theindependenteye]

Friends—

I second Hummingbear's comments, especially the puzzlement about the impulse to throw rotten tomatoes at the slightest provocation. I agree that Edward's note was pretty abrupt, with the kinda rhythm of "I just farted." Simplicity can be overdone.

But why don't we all cut each other a little slack? First off, people who say difficult things sometimes don't do it with great savoir faire: I still recall trying to ask Karen to the junior class prom. Just because "it's been said before" doesn't mean this person has said it, or that he regards it as cutting-edge performance art. Maybe he just wants to say it, ok?

There happens to be an extraordinarily high level of intelligence on this particular listserv — I envy the logic & the verbosity & the energy. Yet it's often squandered in disparagement of others' intelligence or motives or body odor. What a waste. And personally — ok, yeh, I'm from Iowa — I just loathe impoliteness. I just hate it. Shit, fuck: stop it, all ye of the teeming IQ's.

Maybe I'm too strong with the 'rotten tomatoes" metaphor. "Why do you say that?" is an honest question. But that's different from the tone of "How dare you say something so passe and old-hat in hyper-illuminated Sonoma County?" I argue for charity, and charity isn't looking down at lesser beings, it's just giving everyone the benefit of the doubt as a fellow human ape until such time as they literally shit on your rug.

To weigh into the intellectual question: I think it'd be great if we had a bunch of "what am I?" posts on this thread. Much juicier than math or Ron Paul (no offence intended to the Pauline brethren). Edward, say more.

I'll offer as a tomatoes object. And my motive here is, first, to start a discussion, as suggested above, and secondly, to avoid doing the work that I really should be doing. I'm sorry to say that I'm probably not bisexual.

Actually, maybe I am. My first involvement, at age 16, was with my 30-yr-old dance teacher, much more traumatic for him than for me, as he was really in love, whereas at 16 (in Iowa, 1957) you'd fuck any willing fireplug. So maybe I have a lurking trauma, I dunno, that pulls me back away from guys — penises i find quite attractive, except that they're generally attached to men. Transsexuals, well, that's interesting intellectually, but to me it's like those "mystery houses" in tourist places where the floors tilt strangely — just not where you feel at home. With women I can range from hyper-macho to ultra-fem, depending on the person, but the other sex is pretty closed to me, except for hugs & conversation.

It's such a fascinating zoo. On polyamory listservs there are periodic discussions of "Am I *born* polyamorous?" I don't dispute that for some people this is a real question, but it bypasses me. To me, you are what you do or what you want to do. And for me, whatever the etiology of it, it involves ladies. My own beloved lifemate always, and also anyone with a certain curvature & intelligence & humor. Though these days I can't say the North Bay is clamoring for my embrace. O benighted females!

Ye gods, now I deserve the tomatoes for abject self-pity, not to mention self-promotion, homophobia, carnivorous tendencies. What was my point to start with? Oh yeh, charity. Talk nice, huh? Be generous. Winning the argument here won't stop the war in Iraq. Those who would seek to stamp out all outcrops of illogic on the Internet are doomed to paralytic strokes at age 59.

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[Frederick M. Dolan]

.... Thread Split - Okay everyone I broke up bisexual - sort of a bi-section. Okay I enjoy my humor but maybe its too out there but enjoy! - Break Up of BiSexual

Might it be helpful to list the elements of the principle of charity? Of course, I don't mean to suggest that being charitable is merely a matter of following some technical rules; it is above all an attitude, a disposition, a stance, a commitment. But sometimes it's helpful to spell things out.

1. In trying to understand what has been said, assume that the interlocutor is rational (minimally, has a good reason to say what he or she is saying).

2. In trying to understand another's argument, construe the argument in the strongest possible form. (If there is a version of the argument that avoids any perceived errors or falsehoods in the version offered, attribute the better version of the argument to one's interlocutor.)

3. Assume that one's interlocutor is sincere, truthful, coherent, logical, and is saying something relevant, significant, or interesting.

4. Interpret what the other is saying in a way that yields the greatest possible agreement between oneself and the other.

[Neshamah]

Being exclusively attracted to women and living in the midst of that other America (two of my roommates are pro-life Republicans,) I can appreciate the courage necessary, even if it is not quite the life and death courage necessary in 1970. A community like this ought to be a an affirming stepping stone to going public in the wider world.

~ Neshamah

[Valley Oak]

Zeno,

I did not post my message for the sake of applause. I did so as an exercise of asserting my sexuality, which is still marginalized and discriminated against. The best way to fight homophobia is to be "out" and this motive is lost to some members on this list.

There is no "big deal." As I said, it is an exercise. Furthermore, There is no accomplishment in simply being who you are and, once again, I did not post my sexual orientation to this list because I felt it was, as you say, an "accomplishment."

If you don't do exercise, you grow flabby and unhealthy. It is very important, especially in a stridently homophobic society like the U.S, to "come out" about being lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, etc, even "straight." This idea might also be lost on some members of this community.

For example, I have met some Jewish people who are very out about being Jewish by doing different things such as declaring their Judaism, wearing earrings with the Star of David on them, etc. This is an important exercise in exhibiting the Jewish community. This helps to keep Antisemitism in check in the U.S.

Antisemitism is very strong in the U.S. It is almost as bad as racism against African-Americans. One of the best ways to combat racism and discrimination is through public exposure and visibility. That's really what being "out" is all about. Being visible and a part of everyone else's daily "routine" or daily visual experience is absolutely critical.

This is part of what diversity and integration is all about. How are the majority of people in society going to know that their next door neighbor is Jewish, gay, or Pagan, if they don't say so? An African-American usually doesn't have to say anything because the color of his or her skin already makes the statement.

I, Edward, made the statement publicly. And this is an important exercise so that people don't fall into unfamiliarity, paving the way for more discrimination and homophobia.

Does that help explain things for you?

Edward

For the very reason that I knew you assumed (or know) that we are "progressive" I assumed you couldn't come out to get applause or express pride for coming out.

Come on! What's the big deal? We're all somewhere on the multidimensional manifold of being sexual in this way or another. Where's the accomplishment?

[AnnaLisaW]

I have decided to come out of the closet and publicly declare my bisexuality.

So there!


Edward

Well Edward, looks like you have just learned that coming out as a bisexual opens you up to bigots of all sexual persuasions. And thank-you, Braggi, for pointing out the often ignored fact that most, normal humans are bisexual. Declaring oneself bisexual routinely brings accusations of being "gender confused" or "afraid to really come out." It is hard to take a person seriously who cannot respect someone for simply stating a fact although a blunt statement about ones sexuality sounds a bit like an "i wanna get laid." I usually only discuss my sexuality with someone I consider a potential partner. I find it interesting how many "open-minded" people, gay and straight, are turned if I tell them I am bi.
As a dear friend told me many year ago, "Being queer means I don't have to look in someones pants to know if I want to love them."
Blessings, AnnaLisa

[Zeno Swijtink]

Well Edward, looks like you have just learned that coming out as a bisexual opens you up to bigots of all sexual persuasions. And thank-you, Braggi, for pointing out the often ignored fact that most, normal humans are bisexual. Declaring oneself bisexual routinely brings accusations of being "gender confused" or "afraid to really come out." It is hard to take a person seriously who cannot respect someone for simply stating a fact although a blunt statement about ones sexuality sounds a bit like an "i wanna get laid." I usually only discuss my sexuality with someone I consider a potential partner. I find it interesting how many "open-minded" people, gay and straight, are turned if I tell them I am bi.
As a dear friend told me many year ago, "Being queer means I don't have to look in someones pants to know if I want to love them."
Blessings, AnnaLisa

Which proves my point.

All this banter made me decide to come out of the closet and publicly declare my monotony.

So there!

Have mercy!

[silverhaze]

good thing i didnt accept your invitation to have sex with you. sympathies to your"wife".

[silverhaze]

UM. might u pass along my contact info to your roomies, ??? (if they are single males?)

[MsTerry]

I don't assume any body's sexuality.
LuLu was considered both male and/or female by people.
but you declaring yourself bisexual is a statement about your sexual intentions, not about homophobia or the lack of understanding in this community.

[Frederick M. Dolan]

I think any posting is ultimately a form of flirtation.

Not only does this sentence have real literary beauty -- it stands on its own, like an aphorism -- but it's a fascinating assertion. I think it deserves its own thread. Debate the issue: Resolved: Any posting is ultimately a form of flirtation.

[Muel]

Depends whether you assume the common definition of "flirtation" or whether you have a broader meaning in view.

[Willie Lumplump]

Depends whether you assume the common definition of "flirtation" or whether you have a broader meaning in view.

Perhaps you meant to say "a broader end in view."

[MsTerry]

did you mean "a broader bottom"?

Perhaps you meant to say "a broader end in view."