Ride down to His Holiness' talks

[Jugney]

Is anyone going to hear His Holiness speak on Friday and Saturday? I will be going, and was going to take the bus both days, but I thought it would be nicer to ride with others who are going.

I would be happy to pay my share of gas, tolls and parking.

Jugney

[pexpert6]

Is anyone going to hear His Holiness speak on Friday and Saturday? ...

Quite brave! I get the impression that there is powerfully judgmental opposition to anything religious or spiritual here. I hope your affinity for Buddhism and the Dalai Lama aren't criticized and "proven" to be evil and falsely based.

(Well, perhaps it's ONLY about Jesus and what he tried to teach, since that's the only spiritual heritage I've seen ripped to shreds on this BB... yet. But being so similar to the teachings of most other spiritual paths, I wouldn't expect this post to receive any less harsh treatment.)

I wish you well in finding a carpool to the blessed event, and a blissful time in the presence of His Holiness. I got to meet and be blessed by Him 3 decades ago, and the memory is still fresh in me.

[Barry]

Au contraire! Spiritual teachings and wisdom are most welcome here, particularly as applied to how we treat ourselves, each other and live day to day.

I liken a particular religion as an established path towards the One. Something like the various routes up Mt Everest. There are various ways to get to the same place. The problem happens when the wisdom at the heart of the path gets gets co-opted for other purposes. The path goes off course and no longer leads to the One.

The teachings of Jesus are a beautiful path (after all, he was a nice Jewish boy!) that the church and other political forces has co-opted beyond recognition. Whereas his teachings were grounded in love and acceptance, so often they have been "expressed" through fear and hate. "Who would Jesus bomb?" indeed.

If His Holiness starts preaching intolerance, a prescribed set of family values, and how we're all poor miserable sinners, then he too will be subject to a drubbing in these parts. I'm not holding my breath.... I'm just watching it....

I get the impression that there is powerfully judgmental opposition to anything religious or spiritual here. ...
(Well, perhaps it's ONLY about Jesus and what he tried to teach, since that's the only spiritual heritage I've seen ripped to shreds on this BB... yet. But being so similar to the teachings of most other spiritual paths, I wouldn't expect this post to receive any less harsh treatment.)

[gelato]

I did not know he was going to be here? What hours is he speaking and where? I might want to share a ride there depending on cost, time and place. Please email with your phone number because I come to the library to use the computer.

[breebird]

Yes please, when/where is he speaking. I am interested. Thanks, Bree

[Dixon]

Heaven forbid that someone would be so "harsh" as to "rip to shreds" venerable social/religious institutions such as misogyny, slavery, imperialism, antirationalism, homophobia and Christian privilege! Is nothing sacred? ROTFL!

Mean Old Dixon

Quite brave! I get the impression that there is powerfully judgmental opposition to anything religious or spiritual here. I hope your affinity for Buddhism and the Dalai Lama aren't criticized and "proven" to be evil and falsely based.

(Well, perhaps it's ONLY about Jesus and what he tried to teach, since that's the only spiritual heritage I've seen ripped to shreds on this BB... yet. But being so similar to the teachings of most other spiritual paths, I wouldn't expect this post to receive any less harsh treatment.)

I wish you well in finding a carpool to the blessed event, and a blissful time in the presence of His Holiness. I got to meet and be blessed by Him 3 decades ago, and the memory is still fresh in me.

[pexpert6]

Heaven forbid that someone would be so "harsh" as to "rip to shreds" venerable social/religious institutions such as misogyny, slavery, imperialism, antirationalism, homophobia and Christian privilege! Is nothing sacred? ROTFL!

Mean Old Dixon

I know, how RUDE of me to think that the broad brush that was painting EVERYTHING and EVERYONE Christian as an evil worthy of ridicule and extermination (every person who identifies with a christian path is equivalent to "misogyny, slavery, imperialism, antirationalism, homophobia and Christian privilege" ) might be similarly applied to other religious traditions.

Just because damn near any well-established religious tradition has had followers use and twist their religion to harm others, that's no reason to assume there'd be equal treatment!

It's not as if any single person (let alone any church) does their best to practice true enlightened love and acceptance, etc. (as Jesus taught, and not so different from what Buddha taught... and the same sort of values I THOUGHT this "enlightened" WACCO community espoused!).

I'm such a dunderhead for imagining such things! I should submit to your reasoning that there is no God/Higher Power, there's only this life on this rock in space. I should stop reaching for something deeper, and I shouldn't give a crap how I treat anyone else, 'cuz I should only care that *I* feel good and I get what I want... let the other sucker fend for himself... it's not as if he's MY problem!

Oh, and Barry, ("the church and other political forces has co-opted beyond recognition")
1.] I would ask that you be more precise about this: SOME churches/church leaders is more accurate... (perhaps many...) SOME of the time; by saying "the church", you also condemn everyone in all Christian churches, and imply there's never been ANY redeeming works done by Christians or Christian churches;
2.] the judgment (and subsequent moral righteous crusade) applied goes directly in opposition to not only what Jesus and Buddha taught, but many spiritual Truths;
3.] since the enlightened WACCO community is so obviously superior to Christians, I'd invite all y'all to take at least another step towards a spiritually enlightened state of being about this: love your brother/sister, even with his/her obviously errored thinking and ways; allow that they're misguided, but TRYING to find their own path, and in their own Divine center would never intend to cause harm to others; see the Divine in the other and their connection, Spirit to Spirit.

Honestly, I'm sometimes agast listening to supposedly intelligent, enlightened liberal folks. Humans is humans! EVERY single one of us is capable of thoughtlessness, selfishness, lying, taking advantage of others, justifying bad behavior, judging, dominating, manipulating, etc. etc. etc., and damn near everyone I've ever known (including yours truly), I've witnessed them doing these to others. They didn't need the auspices of a religion to show their baser instincts.

But plenty of people have changed their ways for something better (even if just a LITTLE) with the influence of a religion. I, too, have been quite negative about "the church" for most of my life, and looked elsewhere for lessons in Truth because I found it nearly impossible to get the essence of what Jesus was teaching from the Christian churches I encountered. My own younger sister became an evangelical asshole, a perfect example of NOT leading a christian life, and I harbored terrible judgments of her horrible behavior for a long time.

Now, I can just narrow my attention to appreciate that she's TRYING to lead a better life, that's she's trying to raise her kids to know how to do the same. Rather than put more negative energy into the world about such things (the Christian Right, the Republicans, etc.), causing it to be even MORE firmly entrenched, I don't make it MY business to try to control and judge the World for not being the way the (Royal) *I* think it should be; rather, I focus on the Good I want to manifest, and what I desire for myself and my friends, I let other's business be their business, and I let the Universe work its Master Plan however the hell it wants... since it's damn well going to do so, anyway, whether I like it or not!

I get to choose to be happy, and choose to do what works for ME. Or not. And so does everyone else. If someone can resonate with what I have to say, great! Maybe we can create something terrific together. If you don't like what I'm sayin', I guess you can just change the channel.

And on that note, I'll change the channel myself, and let this condemnation of Christianity, the Law of Attraction, and other such stuff I've been recently reading go on without me....

Namaste!

[Barry]

Thanks for your comments, pexpert6!

Oh, and Barry, ("the church and other political forces has co-opted beyond recognition")
1.] I would ask that you be more precise about this: SOME churches/church leaders is more accurate... (perhaps many...) SOME of the time; by saying "the church", you also condemn everyone in all Christian churches, and imply there's never been ANY redeeming works done by Christians or Christian churches;

Point taken! There are certainly many Christian churches that are more in alignment with what Jesus taught.

2.] the judgment (and subsequent moral righteous crusade) applied goes directly in opposition to not only what Jesus and Buddha taught, but many spiritual Truths;

I see your point as well, and there's a place for discussion, analysis, and critique. I would like to see such discussion in respectful and compassionate way, rather than a "drubbing" or "ripped to shreds" but I also support our members free expression as much as possible. Your response here is warranted and part the dialectic discussion that I hope will benefit us all.

3.] since the enlightened WACCO community is so obviously superior to Christians, I'd invite all y'all to take at least another step towards a spiritually enlightened state of being about this: love your brother/sister, even with his/her obviously errored thinking and ways; allow that they're misguided, but TRYING to find their own path, and in their own Divine center would never intend to cause harm to others; see the Divine in the other and their connection, Spirit to Spirit.

Well put!

And on that note, I'll change the channel myself, and let this condemnation of Christianity, the Law of Attraction, and other such stuff I've been recently reading go on without me....

How about just "turning the other cheek" instead?

Namaste!

[Juggledude]

I know, how RUDE of me to think that the broad brush that was painting EVERYTHING and EVERYONE Christian as an evil worthy of ridicule and extermination (every person who identifies with a christian path is equivalent to "misogyny, slavery, imperialism, antirationalism, homophobia and Christian privilege" ) might be similarly applied to other religious traditions.

Just because damn near any well-established religious tradition has had followers use and twist their religion to harm others, that's no reason to assume there'd be equal treatment!

It's not as if any single person (let alone any church) does their best to practice true enlightened love and acceptance, etc. (as Jesus taught, and not so different from what Buddha taught... and the same sort of values I THOUGHT this "enlightened" WACCO community espoused!).

I'm such a dunderhead for imagining such things! I should submit to your reasoning that there is no God/Higher Power, there's only this life on this rock in space. I should stop reaching for something deeper, and I shouldn't give a crap how I treat anyone else, 'cuz I should only care that *I* feel good and I get what I want... let the other sucker fend for himself... it's not as if he's MY problem!

pexpert,

I, for one, would be able to hear your points better were they not couched in such self pitying sarcasm. It seems to me the application of the broad brush was imposed in your interpretation of some expression of viewpoints, not in those viewpoints themselves.

I have joined in discussions on shamanism, law of attraction, toltec mystery vs mastery, etc, and now on christiantiy, from my point of view, it seems a pretty level playing field. I will admit to feeling a little more charged in my responses when the viewpoints expressed were more polarized to my own, is it possible you may be experiencing a similar emotional bias to your perceptions?

Oh, and Barry, ("the church and other political forces has co-opted beyond recognition")
1.] I would ask that you be more precise about this: SOME churches/church leaders is more accurate... (perhaps many...) SOME of the time

my personal observation would use the word MOST instead of SOME, which also alows that possibly even MANY churches remain closer to source.

by saying "the church", you also condemn everyone in all Christian churches, and imply there's never been ANY redeeming works done by Christians or Christian churches;

hardly. Christianity and it's churches have done many good things, obviously. Here I see further evidence of you applying concepts out of proportion to what I get from the authors, and I imagine out of proportion to what the authors of those comments intended.

2.] the judgment (and subsequent moral righteous crusade) applied goes directly in opposition to not only what Jesus and Buddha taught, but many spiritual Truths

My context awareness might be off, but it seems that this comment argues directly against your other points. So you agree that the larger body of established christian dogma results in judgment and a subsequent moral righteous crusade which goes directly in opposition to what Jesus (and Buddah, and Mohammed, etc...) taught? I, too, agree with this, as it appears does Barry, and Dixon. Hooray for the success of the dialectic discussion!

3.] since the enlightened WACCO community is so obviously superior to Christians, I'd invite all y'all to take at least another step towards a spiritually enlightened state of being about this: love your brother/sister, even with his/her obviously errored thinking and ways; allow that they're misguided, but TRYING to find their own path, and in their own Divine center would never intend to cause harm to others; see the Divine in the other and their connection, Spirit to Spirit.

sans the sarcastic supposition of superiority which seems to exist in your perceptions of the dialogs here, this is well put. I put forth to you that this IS happening. Release your defensive stance, embrace the Law of Attraction, and open yourself to the awareness of acceptance of you and your views, by cultivating acceptance of the views of others.

And on that note, I'll change the channel myself, and let this condemnation of Christianity, the Law of Attraction, and other such stuff I've been recently reading go on without me....

Namaste!

Namaste back at'cha, and here's hoping you stay tuned to the same bat-channel, at the same bat-time, because in order to honor the divine within each other, we need to see and speak to that divinity, not preach to it then turn away from it.

With Love,

Royce

[alanora]

I would like to hear from some one who attended the event. No judgement just a sharing of your experience as I have long wanted to experience the presence...especially to look in to the eyes......

Is anyone going to hear His Holiness speak on Friday and Saturday? I will be going, and was going to take the bus both days, but I thought it would be nicer to ride with others who are going.

I would be happy to pay my share of gas, tolls and parking.

Jugney

[pexpert6]

Thanks for your comments, pexpert6!

Point taken! There are certainly many Christian churches that are more in alignment with what Jesus taught.

I see your point as well, and there's a place for discussion, analysis, and critique. I would like to see such discussion in respectful and compassionate way, rather than a "drubbing" or "ripped to shreds" but I also support our members free expression as much as possible. Your response here is warranted and part the dialectic discussion that I hope will benefit us all.

Well put!

How about just "turning the other cheek" instead?

Namaste!

Well, my reaction was to the very closed, very negative condemnations I've seen of late focused on "Christianity" and "Law of Attraction". I didn't read these as a critical analysis, but condemnation of everything and everyone that might be simply exploring the possible wisdom and applicability those might convey.

Rather than discussion, analysis or critique (which can be focused to ENCOURAGE thinking), or even respectful debate, these threads had the flavor of squelching any differing thought. (Same holds for the political and social POVs here and in the North Bay in general, but I decided it was easier to pinpoint a specific thread.) Not worthy of the "Conscious Community" that folks here seem to aspire to.

It's easy to pick on absent entities, or those who aren't able to spar on your own mental level. God knows I've been critical, too of Christian churches and an assortment of New Age beliefs (there's plenty to criticize in the foibles humans express). But I'm MORE concerned with raising others up, respecting their differences and what works for each person.

And focusing on what one DOES want, rather than what one DOESN'T want, is far more useful for everyone involved. Thus, my attempt to cause a break in the direction those discussions were taking. I did poke fun at some closed thinking along with pointing to bigger possibilities, but I hope I also did it in a way to open the way for people to rethink their black-and-white certainties.

As to "turning the other cheek", I can't help but think that Jesus wasn't encouraging folks to allow continued abuse, but to release the judgment of what happened (forgiveness). Sometimes, as with Ghandi and King, one walks right into the maelstrom as an act to demonstrate one's internal strength and to communicate something bigger. Sometimes, one just goes where ya get more of what's pleasing, where it feels better (self-love and care, plus the focus of attracting more goodness by surrounding yourself with goodness, rather than suffering).

What started out as an intention to just shake things up a little, unfortunately turned into hijacking this thread on the Dalai Lama! I apologize! I talked to a friend who attended, and it sounds like it was a delightful experience (as I would expect). I'm sorry to have missed being in His presence once again!

Be well & happy....

[pexpert6]

pexpert,

I, for one, would be able to hear your points better were they not couched in such self pitying sarcasm. It seems to me the application of the broad brush was imposed in your interpretation of some expression of viewpoints, not in those viewpoints themselves.

"Self pitying sarcasm"??? That's quite a conclusion you reached there, Mr. Juggledude! Damn near decided to write off a bulletin board whose members would so careless hallucinate such personal accusations about someone they don't know, and whose posts displayed not a trace of self pity. (I don't have time or use for pity, my own or others', and would not call someone a friend who pitied me.)

I don't know you, and haven't taken the time to identify one poster on this board from the next. My comments weren't targeted to you, or to any of the several others that gave blanket condemnations of things and folks christian, and of Law of Attraction. Those two threads came close together, they caught my attention because I have *some* interest in them, and it seemed that several people here so thoroughly put down any possible worthwhileness from either topic that it squelched anyone else speaking up in favor of them.

My "bias" isn't emotional so much as any domination offends my values. I don't care if the domination is the Bush administration controlling the media with misinformation, or an extreme liberal preventing someone from making a living. There's LOTS I don't agree with in the world, but I don't have to participate and I don't have to wage war on it, either. I read comments on both threads that were gross misrepresentations, casting believers as stupid, wrong, even evil for their practices and sharing of their beliefs. Perhaps true of SOME, but the claims and condemnation wasn't directed at the "some".

If you were one of the people who were critical in these two threads, then I welcome your acknowledgement that "Christianity and it's churches have done many good things," which I didn't notice when I read the previous threads. I welcome the balance and accuracy, and that was my intent in posting.

Mr. Dude, I did use sarcasm. I find being provocative a useful tool in waking people up, and making them think. The results are unpredictable, and I don't use it often. Again, the sarcasm wasn't directed at you, as I couldn't tell you which members here made the narrow and biased comments. As a matter of fact, my posts were more directed at everyone BUT those detractors: I don't try to change people so much as I offer things to people who are open to possibilities. The comments I read were so dead-set against Law of Attraction and christian practice that it seems fruitless to address those posters.

But defensive? My life is not in peril from anyone on this board, not even my career... I couldn't care less if everyone here decided to call me a big fat poopy head, it wouldn't upset me or affect my life. I post a response ONLY because Barry asked me not to disappear. And to correct misinformation.

I do practice Law of Attraction, and I have been cultivating a growing acceptance of others and their views for many decades. I accept that there's a lot of people with different views from mine, and they're welcome to them, and they're welcome to talk publicly to others about them, even including Nazis, Fundamentalists, and what I'd consider to be deluded folks of all kinds. I either look for something positive about those people, or I choose to use my time and attention someplace more valuable to me (I don't have time in my life to spend appreciating every single person, thing or idea, especially when I'd rather spend my time and attention manifesting more of what matters most to ME, selfish person that I am!).

Think of me whatever you like (you will, anyway). And I'll go on enjoying my own communities (spiritual, business movers-and-shakers, etc.). I trust that Spirit moves within you Mr. Dude, in directions that might be far different from my own. It's not for me to judge you about Spirit moves you to do, or whether or not you're following the guidance of Spirit.

When people start silencing or harming others, I sometimes get compelled to say something about it. In this case, I spoke up, to allow members the opening to have differing views from what dominated those threads. I stood up for people who might have gotten some value from "The Secret" or their church to not feel they have to be covert in this liberal community, because I felt moved to do so by Divine Guidance, not defensiveness, or self-pity, or any other demeaning label you might imagine. I trust that Spirit in me moved me to voice what I did (and do) for reasons I can only imagine: perhaps to touch one other person, and help them find the voice of Spirit within them.

I spoke to affirm a possibility, not to deny one. That's fundamental to the Law of Attraction. I wouldn't have done so, if I thought there weren't people in WACCO that were up for possibilities, instead of simply opposition, resistance, and criticism of others. It would be wonderful if you were such a person, and I hope you are.

Now I must go serve my spiritual community, and begin work with a new consulting client, and otherwise focus my energies on building towards more of what matters to me. I wish all a terrific, abundant spring day!
Regards....

[Juggledude]

Mr. Pert,

I'm appreciating your views and points made in this post. Forgive my editing in the quoting, I had thought to highlight what I found most pertinent, then discovered I had to leave most of it in.

I'd like to start with an apology for my accusational tone. It was not directed at you personally, or even at your message, but rather at the method of delivery chosen. You reference the somewhat unpredictable results of that tactic, and my emotional response could certainly fall in that category.

I respect your intent, which seems, if I may paraphrase, to champion open mindedness, a voicing of all views, and a healthy respect for the individuals right to said views. I might disagree on the need to assert on the quiet unspoken individuals behalf, but this is certainly simply a personal choice on my part.

I share your bias against domination, and have a button easily pushed where this bias mingles with my past and present experience of organized religions, especially Christianity, though that's probably just based on the fact that in this culture, it's what I've had the most exposure to.

While I'm not sure if I was critical in the threads you reference (as you don't differentiate particularly among poster's identities, I don't catalog and index my postings and opinions, preferring to live more in the now, and keeping a flexible perspective which is open, neigh, even likely, to change over time) I'll accept your acknowledgment anyway, as those words I spoke in favor of Christian values and deeds still ring true for me. As do the ones spoken by Dixon and others condemning the tyrannical methods and oppressive dogma espoused by so many in the church. A middle path exists in all situations, if we can achieve enough stillness to perceive it. Like you said, "balance" (a great thing to strive for) "and accuracy" (on this subject, possibly a hopelessly subjective concept)

I'm glad you are sticking around, and responding, and hope you will still, even without Barry's pleas. I value the community we have here, bless Barry for fostering this venue for it, and firmly believe that through just this type of interaction we can not only gain respect for each other, but tighten the bonds of humanity which bind us together, and in so doing increase the net love and positive energy of the planet

Just for the record, I am biased in favor of the Law of Attraction, personally held opinions, affirming community as well as "divine" guidance. I imagine that our concepts of divinity probably differ more in semantic ways than spiritual ones. I write this hoping to increase and affirm positive flow, while remaining acutely aware of my own tendencies to slip into negative or accusatory thought forms and styles.

With great emphasis on the meaning of the word, I say to you, Namaste.

Royce

"Self pitying sarcasm"??? That's quite a conclusion you reached there, Mr. Juggledude!...

... they caught my attention because I have *some* interest in them, and it seemed that several people here so thoroughly put down any possible worthwhileness from either topic that it squelched anyone else speaking up...

My "bias" isn't emotional so much as any domination offends my values.... I read comments on both threads that were gross misrepresentations, casting believers as stupid, wrong, even evil for their practices and sharing of their beliefs...

If you were one of the people who were critical in these two threads, then I welcome your acknowledgement that "Christianity and it's churches have done many good things," which I didn't notice when I read the previous threads. I welcome the balance and accuracy, and that was my intent in posting.

...Mr. Dude, I did use sarcasm. I find being provocative a useful tool in waking people up, and making them think. The results are unpredictable, and I don't use it often....

But defensive? My life is not in peril from anyone on this board, not even my career... I couldn't care less if everyone here decided to call me a big fat poopy head, it wouldn't upset me or affect my life. I post a response ONLY because Barry asked me not to disappear. And to correct misinformation.

I do practice Law of Attraction, and I have been cultivating a growing acceptance of others and their views for many decades. I accept that there's a lot of people with different views from mine, and they're welcome to them, and they're welcome to talk publicly to others about them, even including Nazis, Fundamentalists, and what I'd consider to be deluded folks of all kinds. I either look for something positive about those people, or I choose to use my time and attention someplace more valuable to me....

...In this case, I spoke up, to allow members the opening to have differing views from what dominated those threads. I stood up for people who might have gotten some value from "The Secret" or their church to not feel they have to be covert in this liberal community, because I felt moved to do so by Divine Guidance, not defensiveness, or self-pity, or any other demeaning label you might imagine. ...

I spoke to affirm a possibility, not to deny one. That's fundamental to the Law of Attraction. I wouldn't have done so, if I thought there weren't people in WACCO that were up for possibilities, instead of simply opposition, resistance, and criticism of others. It would be wonderful if you were such a person, and I hope you are.

Now I must go serve my spiritual community, and begin work with a new consulting client, and otherwise focus my energies on building towards more of what matters to me. I wish all a terrific, abundant spring day!
Regards....

[Dixon]

I know, how RUDE of me to think that the broad brush that was painting EVERYTHING and EVERYONE Christian as an evil worthy of ridicule and extermination (every person who identifies with a christian path is equivalent to "misogyny, slavery, imperialism, antirationalism, homophobia and Christian privilege") might be similarly applied to other religious traditions.

Hey, pexpert;

It's really frustrating when I work hard to express myself clearly and then someone like you comes along and grossly distorts what I said, and then adds insult to injury by attacking me on the basis of their misinterpretations.

Let's get it straight, pexpert: Your characterization above of my previous posts is NOT what I said at all. You caused yourself needless distress by inferring terrible things that I neither said nor implied.

I pointed out many instances of Christian involvement in some of history's most horrid brutalities, but NOWHERE did I say or imply that all Christians were involved in such brutalities.

I even made it clear that Christianity and Christians weren't all bad by saying things like "I do recognize the good work of the more progressive sects of Christianity (and Islam, and Judaism, etc.) and therefore don't wish to paint all believers with the same brush" and "I was talking about Christianity, a term which encompasses many beliefs and activities good, bad and neutral."

Pexpert, I call upon you to show us the quote(s) wherein I "...was painting EVERYTHING and EVERYONE Christian as an evil". If you can't provide such quotes from me, I await your public apology for misrepresenting my position.

I further qualified my statements by specifying "conservative Christian" churches repeatedly in my criticisms. If you're not one of those, if you're a progressive Christian who is innocent of the various bigotries and brutalities I mentioned, then most of what I said WASN'T EVEN ABOUT YOU, so fuckin' relax, dude!

If on the other hand you are a conservative Christian who embodies the bigotries and supports the brutalities I mentioned, you don't get to complain about my criticisms unless you can refute them.

Just because damn near any well-established religious tradition has had followers use and twist their religion to harm others, that's no reason to assume there'd be equal treatment!

Pexpert, I'm not gonna let you ignore this fact: One needn't "twist" Christianity to harm others; the Bible explicitly supports misogyny, imperialism, heterosexism, slavery, and other evils. Your own version of Christianity may ignore those particular teachings, but most Christians don't, so let's deal honestly with Christianity as it's usually understood and practiced.

Re: your complaint that I'm supposedly singling out Christianity for unequal treatment without criticizing other religions--another gross distortion!

Yes, I focused more on Christianity than on other religions, because 1) That's what most of the posts on that thread were discussing when I joined in, 2) That's the dominant religion in our culture, therefore the one we most urgently need to critique, 3) That's the religion I have the most personal experience and knowledge of, and 4) That's the main religion that's partly motivating and substantially supporting the brutal depradations of the USA both past and present.

But, to be fair, I also made a point of saying things like: "The same principle holds true to varying degrees for most if not all of the major religions. Twenty million African women have been subjected to grotesque genital mutilation by their loved ones who are trying to be the best Muslims they can be, not to mention millions of males subjected to less extreme genital mutilation by people trying to be the best Jews they can be. When was the last time you heard of an atheist mutilating some child's genitals? Hindus and Muslims slaughtering each other, Protestants and Catholics slaughtering each other, women burned alive on their husbands' funeral pyres, all for religious reasons." And elsewhere, such as in post #49 in the "Mind of God" thread, I critique religion in general instead of just focusing on Christianity.

So again you have insulted me by your gross misrepresentation of my positions.

I'm such a dunderhead for imagining such things! I should submit to your reasoning that there is no God/Higher Power, there's only this life on this rock in space. I should stop reaching for something deeper, and I shouldn't give a crap how I treat anyone else, 'cuz I should only care that *I* feel good and I get what I want... let the other sucker fend for himself... it's not as if he's MY problem!

Where in the hell did this sociopathic rap come from, pexpert? If you're suggesting that such unenlightened self-centeredness is implicit in my position, you are insulting and misrepresenting me yet again! Why in the hell would I bewail Christianity's sexism, imperialism, etc, if I didn't care about other people?

As an atheist, I often encounter a particularly noxious form of bigotry from religionists--their assumption that atheists would be less likely to be moral and more likely to be selfish, to violate others, than religionists. If this is your assumption, it's not only untrue; it's insulting and it's bigoted.

Anyone who needs a god to tell them to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a moral retard. You should be able to figure that out by just tuning into your heart, your natural empathy.

So you see, your apparent association of atheism with selfishness is just more insulting, bigoted bullshit on top of the large stinking pile you've plopped in front of us.

EVERY single one of us is capable of thoughtlessness, selfishness, lying, taking advantage of others, justifying bad behavior, judging, dominating, manipulating, etc. etc. etc., and damn near everyone I've ever known (including yours truly), I've witnessed them doing these to others. They didn't need the auspices of a religion to show their baser instincts.

No, but it helps!

But plenty of people have changed their ways for something better (even if just a LITTLE) with the influence of a religion.

Yes, as I've already mentioned in previous posts, religions, including Christianity, do good as well as harm. My bias is that they do more harm than good, but I'm not sure we could quantify the harm and good accurately enough to be sure about that. In any case, the fact that religions do some good in no way invalidates my criticisms of it.

...I don't make it MY business to try to control and judge the World for not being the way the (Royal) *I* think it should be; rather, I focus on the Good I want to manifest, and what I desire for myself and my friends, I let other's business be their business, and I let the Universe work its Master Plan however the hell it wants...

Note that you say this in the context of spewing your uncalled-for negative judgments all over me.

Pexpert, I can only speculate as to why you would consistently distort my clearly expressed positions into something noxious so you can attack me. My best hypothesis is that you're rigidly defended around your beliefs, so when faced with a critique, however reasonable, you slide into the fallacy known as "Attacking a Straw Man" to (fallaciously) defend your beliefs. You really oughta look into that possibility honestly.

But first, you oughta apologize to me for your many insulting misrepresentations of my positions.

Blessings!

Dixon

[ThePhiant]

When was the last time you heard of an atheist mutilating some child's genitals?

that was quite a sermon you got going there Dixie.
So you were wondering if atheist ever killed other people for their beliefs?
Does Stalin count? what about Mao? I think those two can put numbers together that will make Hitler look like a nubile neophyte.

?

As an atheist, I often encounter a particularly noxious form of bigotry from religionists--their assumption that atheists would be less likely to be moral and more likely to be selfish, to violate others, than religionists. If this is your assumption, it's not only untrue; it's insulting and it's bigoted.

A BIGOT???? Dixie is calling other people intolerant????????
In your profanity laced "eloquence", you leave no stone alone.
why are you so sensitive when someone disagrees with you for once?

But first, you oughta apologize to me for your many insulting misrepresentations of my positions.

you preach with the fire and fervor of a fundamentalist, you use the "name, shame and blame game" that is so common with right wing christians, but what really gets me, is that of all people you are the one who wants an apology!!!
ROTFLMAO
now that you have become a fundamentalist atheist, people just have to take your public flagellations and bow to the new Deity Dixie?

Blessings!

how does an atheist do blessings???
just curious