Proposed Guidelines for Buyers and Sellers - What do you think?

[Raven]

Please be considerate of your fellow Waccovian....

1) If you make an appointment to view an item for sale, then either keep it or cancel it! (Making an appt. to view an item is NOT a commitment on your part to purchase it, just to view it).

2) If you say you are definitely going to purchase an item, then do it!

Nothing is more frustrating and saddening to a seller than to receive purchase confirmation from one person either by phone or email, therefore turning away other potential buyers, then the original interested party doesn't follow through!

It is only after having had the above things happen to me several times that I decided to post this. Please consider it not only food for thought, but action as well.

Thank you!

[Juggledude]

Raven,

Having sold many items on that other BB, and a few here, I too have felt the sting of frustration in the similar situation. As sellers, we must make a tough decision, to honor the word of a sometimes unknown buyer, and turn away others, or adopt a more ruthless policy of first come first serve. My inclination to trust is much stronger here in Waccovia, as the community we are fostering is much tighter than others, yet I find myself still leaning toward the cash in hand standard. In my last few deals, I've communicated very openly and honestly my feelings in this regard to the buyers making promises, and I seemed to receive a healthy respect and understanding for that viewpoint. As long as it's up front and stated, it seems to avoid hard feelings on both sides of the transaction.

That said, it's always good to urge people to keep their word! The world would certainly be better off for it.

Royce

[mikeymarcom]

Thank you for posting your thoughts. Carelessness with others is seldom appreciated.

Michael

Please be considerate of your fellow Waccovian....

[Barry]

Please be considerate of your fellow Waccovian....

1) If you make an appointment to view an item for sale, then either keep it or cancel it! (Making an appt. to view an item is NOT a commitment on your part to purchase it, just to view it).

2) If you say you are definitely going to purchase an item, then do it!

I agree this is a problem. I have experienced these issues here in Waccoville and in other cyber communities.

Let's see if we can establish an official guideline for handling these issues.

This is what I do, and I offer it as a standard for responsible buyers and sellers to honor each other:

Buyer Guidelines
1) If you saw the post in an email rather than on the website, go to the post on the website to see if any pictures are attached and whether the item has been sold/taken yet.

2) Request a picture if not already posted.

2) Make a date to view the item. Establish what forms of payment are acceptable. Offer to call before you head over to confirm the item is still available.

3) If you cannot make your appointment please have the courtesy of contacting the seller ASAP.

4) Take a moment to meet your fellow Waccovians, whether or not you want his/her item!

Seller Guidelines
1) Whenever possible, post a picture! This handles 90% of the questions and helps the buyer be clearer if she/he really wants it. See this thread for instructions for posting pictures.

2) When people express their interest, tell them it's "first come first served" and establish what you will accept as payment (I suggest cash). I think it really is most fair that the first person to get there gets the first shot at it. This way you don't need to be concerned with no-shows.

3) Ask people to call when they are on their way. This lets you know that they are really coming so you can prepare for them. They can confirm that you still have the item. Then ask when they plan to arrive and given them a "lock" on the item until that time (or 30 minutes later for good measure).

4) Take a moment to meet your fellow Waccovians, whether or not they want your item!

5) When your item is sold, taken or rented you can do one of four things depending on how "hot" your item was:

- Nothing
- Delete your post
- Edit your post
- Reply publicly

Each have their own considerations:

Nothing: If you didn't get much or any response to your post, you can just leave it there - however good netiquette demands that you reply to any further inquiries.

Delete your post: If it's an old post but you are still getting replies about it, it may be best to delete it, so people will not see it when they peruse or search the site. It will be removed from the website and will not appear in any digests that go out subsequently. Go to your post and click Delete.

Edit your post: This has the same effect as deleting your post, but it's a bit nicer. Go to your post and click Edit. You can edit the title and/or the body to say the item is no longer available. If your post already went out on the digest it won't be sent out again, but if people click on your post in the digest, they will see your new edited post on the website before replying.

Reply Publicly: You can go to your post and Reply Publicly and say the item gone. This creates a new message that will get sent out on the digest. Only use this option if your item was very hot to avoid creating unnecessary message traffic.

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What do you folks think?

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[Raven]

Thank you Barry!

[iaim2xl]

I could not agree more about this. That's one reason why I like eBay--because you are entering a contract with a buyer or seller with consequences and even have the opportunity to RATE your experience. Unfortunately, Barry and Raven, we cannot legislate courtesy and ethics, but I heartily endorse your rules of consideration. Too bad that the people who most need to follow these probably won't take note of them.

Please be considerate of your fellow Waccovian....

1) If you make an appointment to view an item for sale, then either keep it or cancel it! (Making an appt. to view an item is NOT a commitment on your part to purchase it, just to view it).

2) If you say you are definitely going to purchase an item, then do it!

[petermargolies]

While one might think the guidelines as stated below would go without saying, this is cyberspace, a relatively lawless virtual dimension where many think basic courtesys take a back seat.
I'd suggest these rules be made a part of all buy/sell postings along with the "You can reply privately, etc..." instructions that appear at the bottom of all Wacco e-mails.

[francesca]

Good morning all,

I would like to add as a buyer, and if this has been repeated my humble apologies, to sellers, if someone has contacted you either by phone or e-mail please make an effort to return a repsonse. That way the buyer is not waiting or wondering. I have recently replied to two different posts and no call back. Even if the item has been sold, let us know. It would be greatly appreciated.

[Jake Superfly More]

I propose that when an item is sold that the seller delete the post.
Its rather frustrating reading and responding to already sold posts.

[petermargolies]

I propose that when an item is sold that the seller delete the post.
Its rather frustrating reading and responding to already sold posts.

I like the idea of "guidelines" rather than "rules". This sounds like an effective way to remind people of what should be considered a common courtesy. It probably needs to be a part of each post confirmation.

[Tecumseh]

I propose that when an item is sold that the seller delete the post.
Its rather frustrating reading and responding to already sold posts.

I wholeheartedly agree! :shades:

[Barry]

I propose that when an item is sold that the seller delete the post.
Its rather frustrating reading and responding to already sold posts.

If a post is deleted and someone trys to goto the post from a link in the Digest, they still see the post, but without a Reply Publicly button.

I think it's best if the original ad is edited to say the item has been sold.

[fluteman]

Having sold a few items on Wacco I think these guidelines are great, but I'd also like to suggest one that people here may or not agree with.

I think if you are offering an item for sale or for free, first consideration should be given to the first person who contacts you about the item. While I understand the "first come, first serve" model, I have had several instances when due a schedule conflict or an unexpected emergency, myself or the seller was unable to meet immediately. One instance in particular was really frustrating because the seller ended up being late to our proposed meeting time (I understand that these things happen!), and I waited for 30 minutes before leaving, unable to get ahold of them. I then received an email the next day from the seller telling me that she had given the items to someone else, which was extremely dissapointing. In both this and a recent experience, the item was given to the first person who was able to physically be there, which I must admit has left me feeling a little annoyed.

Some months ago I had an item listed for sale on Wacco, and I had about 4 or 5 people contact me about it. Although not everyone was able to meet up to see it when they contacted me, I gave dibs to the first person who called me and showed genuine interest. I reserved the item for her, but she later explained that she wasn't that interested, so I let the rest of the interested parties know and eventually someone did come by and purchase the item. This is a courtesy that I extend to others, and while I'd hope that other people might follow this golden rule of sorts, I've learned that not everyone does.

So perhaps the members here can at least give this concept some thought, and if someone contacts you about an item but is unable to come by immediately due to work or family obligations, consider giving them a chance to actually do so. :)

-Erick

[fernst]

The way I do it is one of two ways: State in the add "first come, first served" or tell the first person interested you will hold the item for them for a set amount of time. What ever you do it is important to be clear in your add or when communicating to buyers as to how you will conduct the sale.
Frederic

[Louise]

I have also had the experience of contacting somebody, being the first person to arrange a time to pick an item up , only to have the person call me and tell me that they gave it away to somebody else after we had made an arrangement that I would have followed through on. First call first taker should be the rule unless the seller specifies other. thanks for your attention on this! Louise

[Barry]

I have also had the experience of contacting somebody, being the first person to arrange a time to pick an item up , only to have the person call me and tell me that they gave it away to somebody else after we had made an arrangement that I would have followed through on. First call first taker should be the rule unless the seller specifies other. thanks for your attention on this! Louise

But what if the first person to call doesn't show up right away or flakes out? Especially when giving things away, I really want to make it quick and easy transaction. If the first person to contact you flakes out, then it can become a real hassle to contact the other people (in the order that they have contacted you?) and wait for replies, etc.

That's why I like the idea giving it to the first person to show up. When some one says they are headed over, I'll give them a lock on it for a limited period of time (generously allowing for a delay - say an extra hour or two) so they can be assured of getting it if they really come when they say they will.

I think if you are offering an item for sale or for free, first consideration should be given to the first person who contacts you about the item. While I understand the "first come, first serve" model, I have had several instances when due a schedule conflict or an unexpected emergency, myself or the seller was unable to meet immediately. One instance in particular was really frustrating because the seller ended up being late to our proposed meeting time (I understand that these things happen!), and I waited for 30 minutes before leaving, unable to get ahold of them. I then received an email the next day from the seller telling me that she had given the items to someone else, which was extremely dissapointing. In both this and a recent experience, the item was given to the first person who was able to physically be there, which I must admit has left me feeling a little annoyed.

This problem would not have happened under my proposed procedure. At the point you had a established at specific meeting, the seller should have given you a lock on the item and not have given/sold it to someone else.

The way I do it is one of two ways: State in the add "first come, first served" or tell the first person interested you will hold the item for them for a set amount of time. What ever you do it is important to be clear in your add or when communicating to buyers as to how you will conduct the sale.
Frederic

This does seem to be wise advice! Sellers and Buyers should be clear about how the transaction will conducted.

[Raven]

Well, things had gone well for quite a while since I first posted this thread...
But in the last 7 days I've had 3 confirmed appointments flake on me.
This was quite dissappointing.

I too, have always given priority to the first person who contacts me and is interested in the item. However, after having been burned again this week, I am changing my policy to the first person who gets here gets first choice on an item.

Nicole (formerly posting as Raven)

[momsawake]

"Nothing is more frusterating and saddening to a seller than to recieve purchase confirmation from one person either by phone or email, therefore turning away other potential buyers, then the original interested party doesn't follow through!"

Oh yes, Raven, something is more frustrating than a no show. That would be a scammer, such as a person who views the generosity of others (I'm thinking of the seller here) as an opportunity for self-enrichment. Here's a great example!

"D" answered my post for a free, running car and drove it away promising to get it registered. She didn't. Now she's abandoned it and its been impounded, sticking me with a $500 impound bill. Can't even get her to hand back the keys so it can be gotten out of impound without additional money for a locksmith!

So follow the old hippie maxim Tempt Not Lest Ye Be Lifted From, and be careful about who you are generous with. This forum feels friendly (I was turned on by a friend who described it as craigslist for honest local folks) but it's really the same same - behind that screen handle could lurk a scammer.

So sad.

[saysni]

If you have the buyer's info and sale info (name address, etc) you can still fill out a Release of Liability form and submit to DMV. It may or may not help but it's worth a try. Not every release of liability makes it into their system for whatever reason, and they will accept it even at this late date. Good luck.

[momsawake]

Thanks saysni :)

It didn't occur to me to try to file it now cuz the DMV website doesn't sound real flexible. SRPD hasn't been helpful either. I'll try the counter and see if they'll take it.

momsawake

[Barry]

This forum feels friendly (I was turned on by a friend who described it as craigslist for honest local folks) but it's really the same same - behind that screen handle could lurk a scammer.

So sad.

While it's true there is no gauarantee everybody here will act with integrity, there have been very few complaints. Members that have a pattern of abuse will be asked to leave. Please Contact Us if you feel a member has not acted with full integrity.

[Cyndi]

I think if you are offering an item for sale or for free, first consideration should be given to the first person who contacts you about the item.

I disagree with this. The problem with first come, first serve, is it means people logged on all the time will get a higher percentage of items they are interested in than people who log in once a day or even less. This is a bigger issue on Freecycle, where being the winner means getting a freebie, not just the opportunity to buy something first, but it can be a problem here too.

For free items or a simple sale, I always give it 24-48 hours before making a decision. I know this seems like forever in internet time. And of course for something complex, like an apartment rental or a job, I'd contact each respondant promptly and interview them over a period of time before deciding on one.

I agree with the frustrations about no-shows though.

Cyndi

[Deborah]

Hummm... I would have to say having spent much time on-line responding to ads for my business that first come first serve is a pretty fair way to go. Yes there are flakes, but integreity will always win out.
Deborah

[fernst]

I would like to bring some clarity to the term "First come, first served" and distinguish it from "First contact, first served". I happen to only support the first one where someone is at your doorstep with money or if item is free is there to take the item. Frederic

I disagree with this. The problem with first come, first serve, is it means people logged on all the time will get a higher percentage of items they are interested in than people who log in once a day or even less. This is a bigger issue on Freecycle, where being the winner means getting a freebie, not just the opportunity to buy something first, but it can be a problem here too.

For free items or a simple sale, I always give it 24-48 hours before making a decision. I know this seems like forever in internet time. And of course for something complex, like an apartment rental or a job, I'd contact each respondant promptly and interview them over a period of time before deciding on one.

I agree with the frustrations about no-shows though.

Cyndi

[melinda]

I would like to add one other thing. I think there should be a "rule" that buyers should be prepared to pay cash for an item, especially one under, say, $100. I have had 2 experiences bringing me to this belief. I sold an item (I thought) and the buyer showed up with checks. When I asked for cash, the buyer had 1/3 of the amount and offered to write a check for the difference. I suggested going to a nearby store for the cash balance but was refused, making me wonder what was so difficult about an extra five minutes if the item really was wanted, and it made me more concerned. I don't know this person who seemed perfectly fine and courteous but my concern is based on that unknown. I'm not a business that has the means to check someone's credit. And, I previously was stiffed by someone who agreed to pay a certain amount but showed up with less. I did learn from that experience to agree completely on price before someone shows up. Now I learned another lesson to post "cash only"-- unless there are "rules" that way. I've spent a large part of my life doing non-profit community service and volunteer work, so I regret this happened, but this is a very large area where we don't know each other personally. Lawyer friends think "rules" are necessary, and I guess that sometimes they may be, especially in a large marketplace. If anyone thinks differently, feel free to let me know. Anyway, I'm sorry it happened; we both wasted time and got annoyed. I still think that Barry is doing a wonderful thing by creating this website (I've referred people to it alot).

Please be considerate of your fellow Waccovian....

1) If you make an appointment to view an item for sale, then either keep it or cancel it! (Making an appt. to view an item is NOT a commitment on your part to purchase it, just to view it).

2) If you say you are definitely going to purchase an item, then do it!

Nothing is more frustrating and saddening to a seller than to receive purchase confirmation from one person either by phone or email, therefore turning away other potential buyers, then the original interested party doesn't follow through!

It is only after having had the above things happen to me several times that I decided to post this. Please consider it not only food for thought, but action as well.

Thank you!

[Barry]

I would like to add one other thing. I think there should be a "rule" that buyers should be prepared to pay cash for an item...

While I agree with you, I believe the responsibility of establishing acceptable payment terms up front rests with the seller.

2) When people express their interest, tell them it's "first come first served" and establish what you will accept as payment (I suggest cash). I think it really is most fair that the first person to get there gets the first shot at it. This way you don't need to be concerned with no-shows.