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  1. TopTop #1
    santoshimatajaya's Avatar

    toxic waste exposure and ignorance


    Gailene Elliott, Dunham

    Toxic dumping at Stony Point Rock Quarry and Meacham Transfer Station

    Hi neighbors! I’m fairly new to this
    website. Is anyone concerned about the HUGE amount of toxic concrete and other toxic garbage that is coming out of the site removal from the fires that we had a few months ago? FYI they would not let any of the homeowners back in the Santa Rosa Coffey area without proper hazmat clothing for weeks, now they’re bringing it all here in wide open dump trucks that line up, hundreds of them every day, to dump it all at Stony Point Rock Quarry and the transfer station on Meacham. I’m sure most of you have seen the dust and dirt all over the road on Stony Point Rd every day. I can see it on my car soon after I wash it!

    This extremely toxic dust is floating down onto the grass where hundreds and hundreds of certified organic cows are grazing! Which will turn into “organic “ grass fed beef that you’ll pay a pretty price for!! And this very fine toxic dust is flowing onto the hundreds of acres of Gallo vineyards nearby. So what’s going to happen to that toxic concrete? Are they going to crush it at the rock quarry and make even more toxic (Asbestos-filled) dust and make it into more concrete to sell and use?

    As a child, I lived about 3/4 of a mile from a cement plant where they make cement... just regular cement. We would see the dust on our just washed cars, feel it occasionally on our teeth as we played baseball, saw it and washed it off of every vegetable in our garden, not to mention our chickens, cows, goats, and horses eating that fine cement dusted grass. I know for a fact that as a result of living there, my sister and brother (and an inordinate amount of my neighbors) died of cancer. As a result, many of them won a class action lawsuit. But that didn’t bring my brother and sister or neighbors back.

    NOW, My husband informs me that houses built before 1979 (which most of these were in the Santa Rosa Coffey park area) had asbestos in the cement foundation, the siding, flooring, plaster, linoleum, etc. etc.!!!! It was outlawed in 1979...

    In conclusion...... I’m wondering who if anyone else is concerned? If anyone else is concerned? How careful are they about dealing with this extremely toxic matter? Not careful enough as I’m driving through that shit every day!!! Thoughts?

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  3. TopTop #2
    Barry's Avatar
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Quote sealwatcher wrote: View Post
    Well, according to the headline on the front page of the PD, UC Davis is on this. Can't find it online though, so cannot send a link.

    The article on the front page of the PD talks about a new study, including a survey, that is below:


    Researchers from the Environmental Health Sciences Center (EHSC) are working with Northern California communities to study the impact smoke and burned debris have had on survivors of the catastrophic fires that swept through Napa, Sonoma, and other counties in October and November of 2017. These fires were unique because they burned manmade structures, which scientists believe could impact the health of people differently than “natural” wildfires that burn trees, grass, and other plants.

    “We know what [natural] wildfire smoke is composed of, but we have no idea what will be in this. We expect it to be very different,” says Keith Bein, a scientist at the UC Davis Air Quality Research Center.

    WHAT NOW California: A study in urban wildfires

    EHSC’s study is called “Wildfires and Health: Assessing the Toll in NOrthWest California” (WHAT NOW California). Leading the research team is Irva Hertz-Picciotto, director of EHSC and a professor of public health sciences at UC Davis. About a dozen other scientists will be involved in the study with Hertz-Picciotto.

    EHSC scientists are already collecting samples of air and ash from affected areas in Northern California. Soon, researchers will also be gathering information about residents’ experiences during and in the immediate aftermath of the fires through an online survey.

    In collecting this data, EHSC and its scientists hope to accomplish several things:

    • Understand how people are affected by exposure to smoke and combustion of chemicals in urban wildfires
    • Protect the public’s health during the recovery in Northern California
    • Prevent health problems related to wildfires in the future
    Regular updates about EHSC’s wildfire research and the online survey will be published on EHSC’s website.
    WHAT NOW California online survey

    If you’re a resident of Sonoma, Napa, Solano, Mendocino, Lake, Butte, or Yuba counties and would like to participate in the WHAT NOW California survey, please provide your email in the space below. EHSC will contact you when the survey is online.

    WHAT NOW California receives funding from the UC Davis Environmental Health Sciences Center, which is sponsored by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences

    You can sign up for the survey by visiting the study page here.
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  5. TopTop #3

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    I would imagine the concrete is being crushed to use as road base.
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  6. TopTop #4
    karenm97's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    I have a count-the-debris-trucks game that I play on the freeway in Santa Rosa. On the way south around New Year's a few times I saw what appeared to be debris trucks going to the Novato dump, too. Maybe some of those contractors are driving other kinds of trash around? I sure hope so. I sometimes see trucks that don't have their loads covered all the way and I, too, am very worried about what could be getting out. (I even saw some trucks on my street today - I live near the Todd Road exit, east of the freeway, so I'd imagine stuff from the Crane Canyon area is what's being driven past my place)

    And yes, I was shocked to go on tours of that organic dairy when I was at the JC in the early '10s. I don't think we need to worry about them, as they've already had that dump there for a long time. Yuck!

    But whatever, we live in a toxic world and our waste, including fire debris, decades of people's batteries, etc has to go somewhere. It's kind of better to keep it in county than have it trucked to some other, likely poorer community that didn't have these fires and shouldn't have to deal with our toxic waste.

    (I say this as someone who already had environmental illness, btw)
    Last edited by Barry; 01-27-2018 at 10:00 AM.
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  8. TopTop #5
    santoshimatajaya's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    just shows how interconnected we are, eh~ all affecting one another
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  10. TopTop #6
    Hot Compost

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Quote MikeH wrote: View Post
    I would imagine the concrete is being crushed to use as road base.
    Sonoma Compost's 22 acres of flat work space is built on recycled concrete. And it was built some years ago. Now I'm wondering if it contains the formulations of older concrete that contained asbestos. // I think part of the answer lies in the lungs of the Sonoma Compost employees. // One of the things I have noticed from buying soil there, is the breathing (or coughing) patterns of the employees. // They tend to have an upper lung cough. Like what young boys go through when they see an MD before some school sports, when the doctor says to cough. So they cough without a lot of force. // I am extremely sensitive to dust & smoke. I've learned it works best to stand back a distance and to use extreme illumination (like 3 flashlights, or sunlight) to see what the dust is doing & to make sure you're upwind of it. // Paradoxically, I do a lot of work around controlled burns. Then all that Pranayama (holding breath exercises during yoga) come in REAL handy. // I ALWAYS hold my breath when I'm working in a flume of smoke or dust. No exceptions. // Chem. lab testing for soil samples varies widely.

    There is a place called MET in Nevada that normally tests for Gold and Silver, I think charging about $29 per sample tested. // Thorough soil sample testing seems to cost $150 to $200, though I have found local chemists who have done it for me for $20 (in Oregon). // I suggest getting samples of the concrete you suspect has asbestos. Paying attention to wind, wearing breathing protection if necessary. Not the cheap things they were handing out during the October fires, professional dust masks like painters use (that look like gas masks). // One possibility is to take the concrete samples to the Chem department at Santa Rosa Junior College, and finding a professor to be of assistance. A good place to start is the professor who teaches the full year heavy-duty chemistry class. // I wouldn't count on local or federal authorities to be of assistance. It might be their job but as has been made clear more than once, lots of people in official capacities don't do their jobs.
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  11. TopTop #7

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Why are people so one sided, leave out important information just to try to get people riled up over nothing? Shame on you Yamah Goodman for only posting half of the story!

    There were several thoughtful responses on the Nextdoor site which I will post here;
    Rich Fontes, Penngrove·2d agoJust stop... they hose off everything extensively before they load it in the trucks up there. The trucks are all covered with tarps and they are lined with plastic on the bottom. The crushing operation is used to make base rock for the new houses and has water added; there is no dust coming out of the base rock crusher plant. The dust you talk about on stony point is coming from the wetted down road in the Meacham landfill, not from Stony Point Q. Stony point goes to great lengths not to let the trucks in the muddy part of the quarry so that they do not track mud out onto the roadway. Dont start any more hysteria.. we are sick and tired of these lawyer commercials on the radio as it is. This is a pain in the ass job so let these people take care of what they have to do and get people back in their houses...

    I am not connected with the stony point operation but I am very aware of their methods and techniques particularly for the protection of water quality. If you take some due diligence you will find that Bodine and several other of their family companies are models for the whole state in which representatives from other counties come and learn about the methods that they use to prevent water contamination and air qualit. Weekly or daily water samples are part of the regular operation of a responsibly maintained Quarry operation. This company is quite literally a statewide model of proper stewardship, so take the time and get your facts straight before creating false hysteria.. two cents worth of correct information..

    Just another little fyi: you made the statement that "toxic water is flowing onto hundreds acres of Gallo vineyards". First, exactly what type of water quality testing have you done or what reports have you read that would bring you to the assumption that this run off that you say you have seen is in anyway more "toxic" then the run off created by the thousands of car dripping oil up and down this road ? Second, you might notice that the vineyards all go uphill from the water ditches on the side of the road? Just a basic observation it seems like water does not flow "uphill", but why do I know? I'm only 55, and also not a troublemaking attorney...

    Just FYI, my brother and I, our dad and grandfather (yes all still alive) all worked in a concrete plant for a number of years. I can tell you in the none other than absolutely first hand way that there is absolutely no asbestos in concrete, that information is incorrect. The EPA was very closely involved in the inspections of not only coffee park but Mayacamas, Larkfield and all of the areas that were burned . If you really don't trust the EPA in this case probably the best thing to do would be to contact them and simply ask them if they can give you this information.. you might be surprised what happens when you ask politely..
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  13. TopTop #8

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Secondly, when a fire burns, smoke goes up in the air and carries all the toxic elements with it.
    It's laughable to think that the sites are more toxic now than when they were burning! If you visited Rosa after the fires you could see how clean the sites were burned down to the ground without any charred or half burned wood. The fire was so hot that only metal and brick was left standing! Because the fire was so hot most of the toxic materials are now in YOUR backyard carried there by the smoke.
    If any toxicity testing has been done in SR, I'd like to see it instead of this suggestive speculation about toxic concrete.
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  15. TopTop #9
    karenm97's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Thankfully we have science to help us understand the effects of the fires, both immediate and long-term. Well, a two-year study is still something. Check this study out. Plus there are other studies happening of the effect of ash on produce, air, and chicken eggs.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-28-2018 at 01:09 PM.
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  16. TopTop #10
    karenm97's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    FYI, Sonoma Compost has been gone for a couple of years. They now market West Marin Compost's products.

    Interesting thing you noticed about the asthma (hopefully that's all it was!). After the fires, I've been using N95 masks when I'm moving my purchased compost around.

    Quote Hot Compost wrote: View Post
    Sonoma Compost's 22 acres of flat work space is built on recycled concrete....
    Last edited by Barry; 01-28-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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  17. TopTop #11

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    I have MS and multiple chemical sensitivity is one of my symptoms, so I am more sensitive than most. For months after the fires I felt sick even going to get my paper in the driveway with a mask on. I was in the house for months. Thought the rains would help, but it didn't.

    Maybe most people are not symptomatic from it, but the air quality in santa rosa is toxic. It would be hard to know when it improves because no comprehensive study of toxins was done. And the site often shows green but they only measure for a couple of components. Every toxic thing that burned is scattered about the county, and moving it from place to place stirs it up more.

    I had to leave the area, so it;'s not affecting me now. But am concerned about the long-term effects from the ongoing exposure to others.
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  19. TopTop #12

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Diaba, good to hear you are doing better but it would be helpful for everyone to know where about you live. That way we can get a sense of how far the smoke reached you.
    Like I said before, the smoke was more toxic than what was left behind and it carried pretty far. I think people have no idea how many toxic materials are used in building a house and it all went up in smoke!
    Last edited by Barry; 01-29-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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  20. TopTop #13

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    santa rosa, by the fairgrounds.
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  21. TopTop #14

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    I think all the houses and grounds were covered with toxic dust in Santa Rosa during the burn.
    Growing veggies there now might need testing for toxins, especially the organic ones!
    It can't be safe, I'd like to hear from anyone who has tested their soil, farmer or not.

    Quote diaba wrote: View Post
    santa rosa, by the fairgrounds.
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  23. TopTop #15
    Goat Rock Ukulele's Avatar
    Goat Rock Ukulele

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    There was a fair amount of asbestos used in building materials in the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s
    However I don't believe said asbestos would be much of an issue with salvaged concrete.

    It is important to consider the native rock and soil of Sonoma County contain a fair amount of asbestos and you are likely inhailing minute amounts everytime you drive down a gravel road behind another car or any road for that matter from brake shoes and clutches of older cars. Newer cars don't use asbestos for brakes and clutches.

    Asbestos is 10 times more harmful for those who smoke as it is much much more difficult to clear from the lungs in smokers.

    Roads in California often contain serpintine (a native rock to Sonoma County) as does the gravel used to make concrete. Serpintine conains asbestos and other asbestos like substances.

    What I'm trying to say is asbestos is already there in the concrete you see all around you. When it is locked into a paved roadway or into concrete as will be done to the reclaimed concrete you are speaking of it's not going to be that much different. There are areas of the country where the gravel roads are so high in asbestos content that they are dangerous to drive down. I don't believe that is the case here in Sonoma County but it is likely you get some exposure.

    I suppose you can make the case even a slightly higher asbestos content of roadways and concrete is unacceptable and that may be true. It's my belief that other chemicals distributed and created from burning the things we use in our modern lives could be much more a concern.
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  25. TopTop #16
    karenm97's Avatar

    Re: soil, toxic waste exposure and ignorance

    Hi, There is someone at extension (Mimi? Miriam? I'd have to look in my notes but it is too late tonight) who is a contact person for people who have previous soil tests and want to get tested again (or was it report their results from new tests?). I didn't get around to testing this fall, but I'm looking forward to doing it when it's dry enough to get a sample :). And they are still fundraising, but there is a "Citizen Science" project affiliated with UCCE Sonoma that's testing some leaves from lettuce, kale, collards, and I think it was chard. I submitted some dino kale :). I hope enough money gets raised to be able to test it!

    The project started when someone at a community garden in Oakland asked a woman who has an MPH if she thought the produce would be safe to eat when so much ash had fallen. There is also a project studying eggs from chickens in fire-affected areas, and other folks are studying the air...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-29-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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  27. TopTop #17
    nicofrog's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance after the fires

    I think this is a good thread to watch.

    Some issues; cars are full of toxic substances that burnt, telephone poles carry transformers than contain pcb's one of the highly most dangerous toxics known . most roofs are FIBREGLASS asphalt shingle ,most idiotic but cheap insulation is fibreglass, and rock wool (all toxic irritants and carcinogens. oH and then all the fluorescent lights are lined with mercury ! So here's my question does the glass fiber just ball up and become like harmless scotchlite ?(scotchlite are the tiny glass balls like miniature marbles that make reflective paint and tape "Light up" when you cast light on them.) That would be good news . accept undoubtedly,thousands will re-build with the same materials and tinder box wood as before! ruh roh!

    perhaps the mercury (a low temp flux type element) just all evaporates and we breathed it in October.over now ) I was miles away and have been dealing with asthma ,which may or may not be related.

    cans of paint went up in smoke,some of it old paint with lead, some cadmium, etc. nasty stew. tsunamis and hurricanes ,tornadoes all spread this stuff around. fibreglass structures etc even the perlite in greenhouses and vermiculite are all bad for your lungs. By the way when you look this all up on line(and I have many times) many studies are out there funded by industries that sell this stuff that say "It's no big deal: and the ol' famous Reagonnism "Dilution is the solution to pollution" so to the faithful quarry worker who said "its all good" well sure buddy,we KNOW you guys are doing your best ,and we are lucky to have knowledgeable and caring people working in that field ! no need to go defensive ,no one is calling names.(I hate the lawyer adds as well,hope those guys are donating to the relief fund vultures are a necessary but stinky breed.) we all need to give each other a hand up.

    This is a call for attention and study to learn more ,not to cut down our waste crews who do they best the can. just like a fire-fighter who did not put out a fire,but was busy saving lives. wear your masks till you know more! pcb's are probably the worst (next to round up)glyphosate ,hopefully is destroyed by fire???but who knows. who knows how much of the stuff we take for granted or forgot we had went up?? Batteries of course . many plastics are toxins. they do not burn completely.there is a small residue.

    and the worst!?? that "Power" button on the TV remote..believe me,that's the last place you are going to get any power! do people care their smart meters are not fireproof? I doubt it, look how close they follow on the freeway! for them.. physics does not exist,they are members of the lucky and the few who have an exemption from all serious risks! may their delusions come true!

    Some cement contains radio active waste! yeah look it up!! some screwball decided it would be a good way to get rid of it(the Reagonomics thing again!) also some re bar.. just tried to re google these potential "facts" and had some difficulty with wording the search correctly.

    take mercury seriously.I have shaky hands and faltering memory,and whatever that other thing was ,oh yeah,dyslexia

    There's a good reason you don't find mercury in thermometers much anymore. Mercury is located right next to gold on the periodic table, but while you can eat and wear one, you'd do best to avoid the other. The toxic metal is dense enough that it can be absorbed into your body directly through your unbroken skin. The liquid element has a high vapor pressure, so even if you don't touch it, you absorb it through inhalation. Your biggest risk from this element isn't from the pure metal, which you can recognize on sight, but from organic mercury that works its way up the food chain. Seafood is the best-known source of mercury exposure, but it's also released into the air from industries, such as paper mills.

    What happens when you meet up with mercury? The element damages multiple organ systems, but the neurological effects are the worst. It affects memory, muscle strength, and coordination. Any exposure is too much, plus a large dose can kill you.

    Fun Fact: Mercury is the only metallic element that is a liquid at room temperature.

    I don't spend my days fearing the elements ,I try to strengthen my immune system so I do not have to. I do not eat any foods with a bunch of stuff that is obviously not food in there. I avoid pharmaceuticals, but take them when its important, try out tinctures and power food carefully.etc.
    thanks for bringing this topic to light
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  29. TopTop #18
    Goat Rock Ukulele's Avatar
    Goat Rock Ukulele

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance after the fires

    They stopped using PCB oil in PGE transformers in 1977. I would be supprised if there were many in that fire. I would very much doubt there were any PCB transformers in the city limits. PCBs can be created by burning certain plastics. And yes it is all about dilution. There are tons of plutionium in our atmosphere from bomb testing. The half life is 82,000,000 years. One thimble full could kill every many woman and child on the earth in concentrated form.

    Quote nicofrog wrote: View Post
    I think this is a good thread to watch.

    Some issues; cars are full of toxic substances that burnt, telephone poles carry transformers than contain pcb's one of the highly most dangerous toxics known ....
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  31. TopTop #19
    santoshimatajaya's Avatar

    Re: toxic waste exposure and ignorance after the fires

    MACROBIOTIC DIET is a great way to allow the body to purge stored toxins, such as Heavy Metals, Pharmaceuticals, excess protein, excess sugar, etc the body has been fed ignorantly in the past.

    As far as the need for pharacueticals, there are other natural options. Umeboshi plums are my antibiotics now. i've taken them when having had multiple teeth pulled at once.

    Goldenseal has antibiotic properties and can be used instead of pharmaceuticals. it should be done with the guidance and knowledge of an alternative healing practitioner.

    i'm not advising anyone to randomly do this themselves without knowledge and experience.

    A lot of our old ways are no longer necessary. They are toxic and don't work well, perpetuate the problems on other levels.

    Micheal Jackson's I'm Talkin' to the Man in the Mirror
    I'm askin' him to Make a Change
    My message couldn't be any clearer
    If you want to make the World a better place
    ​Make a Change!
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