How much to you really know about Hillary Clinton?

[Shandi]

Stargazer, personal attacks, put downs, and lack of respect can be seen in many responses, and almost always from a certain few. It's unfortunate, but as Barry said in his response to our recent post entitled: Unified Statement on behalf of the Non-Conformist Community & the Red Pill Roundtable, (which you've probably never seen, since it was hidden in a seldom used category-Help Desk and Feedback), "As I have posted before, WaccoBB is not a place for free speech. Not all speech is welcome." He doesn't go into detail about the kinds of speech that isn't welcome, but you have experienced some that is. Some of what is welcome and appreciated with "gratitude" are posts that seem to attack the poster, which hardly seems like conscious, non-violent communication. But it's Barry's call, and Barry's board. I usually don't respond to attacks, because that only encourages more, which is truly a waste of time, for some of us.

I've never seen an explanation of what is meant by "conscious community" on Wacco. It may be quite different that my perception. I've developed 5 guidelines for conscious community living, but I don't see any guidelines for postings. Maybe I've missed them?

I may not agree with all the points you mentioned, but I support your right to your views. If I judged that you were selfish, by my standards, I would still support your right to your personal thoughts and feelings. The difficulty in having a discussion on polarizing issues, is that we're emotionally invested in being right.

That was part of the value of the RedPillRoundtable. We were a group of open minded individuals, who questioned the status quo on various issues, and wanted a safe place to question and discuss, without the distraction of dealing with personal attacks and put downs, commonly seen on Wacco. Some people have shared with us that they have left Wacco because of this. We are "non-conformists", but that doesn't mean that we agree, only that we desire to learn more through questioning what is commonly accepted by the masses. We're in good company, with Martin Luther King.

Personal attacks regarding someone's post is inappropriate and counter productive. I am very far from selfish. I pose these questions for people to think about the "reality of what is." ...

[mrcharming]

Thank you Shandi! I wish you would post this as a new tread. Although I have rarely, if ever, participated in the "Red Pill Roundtable", I have frequently read it.. No disrespect to Barry; WACCO is his baby and he can run it as he seems fit; however, I, too, often wonder what Barry means by "conscious community". With the exception of a few enlightened souls, I find most of the comments on WACCO to largely reflect conventional thinking. And that's fine...everyone is entitled to their opinion, and WACCO does provide a wonderful formate for people to express their opinions, as long as those opinions are not too far outside the box. Again, no disrespect to Barry or WACCO; it is what it is.

Like you, I would welcome a venue where thinkers who are, as you say, non-conformists can express their ideas. Now that Barry has decided to remove the "Red Pill Roundtable" from WACCO, I am hoping we can find another local online place for local non-conformists to share their views. I think you'll agree that there is so much more happing in the world and are local community than "meets the eye". I am interested in looking beyond the veil of illusion and learning from others what they are seeing beyond this veil. I am fortunate in that I do have community with whom I can discuss a lot of this "red pill" stuff, but I would welcome a local online format as well. I have neither the time or technical sophistication to launch such a project; perhaps someone else does. We must continue to QUESTION REALITY! Again, Thank you for your post!

[Icssoma]

this had digressed. is the Clinton candidacy part of this thread.
did you miss the NY Times article about Karl Rove & America's Rising supporting Bernie Sanders, in attempt to undermine Clinton, https://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...didnt-ask-for/
("All of it, of course, is intended to get under Mrs. Clinton’s skin and promote the Democratic candidate they believe would be weaker in a general election. Republican groups and super PACs have spent nearly $5 million targeting Mrs. Clinton so far this cycle. They’ve yet to spend a dollar on attacking Mr. Sanders.")

almost as interesting is Clinton's endorsement by Planned Parenthood & HRC:
“... endorsed by the Planned Parenthood Action Fund because of the work ..."(Hillary has done) "to defend women’s health and I was proud to be supported and endorsed by the Human Rights Campaign because of the work I have done to end discrimination against the L.G.B.T. community,”

...she was “somewhat confused” by Mr. Sanders’s comments, which he made in an interview with MSNBC on Wednesday, that the groups that had endorsed Mrs. Clinton’s candidacy represented the establishment politics he rails against.
heard nothing about violence against women, promoting women's rights in countries that are in a different era.
does anyone else care about these issues?
not one comment about Clintons' global work, or her historical work in the African American community.

[mrcharming]

Icssoma,
Of course most of us care about these issues. When I posted the Abby Martin video and more recently the Truthdig.com article my intention was not to really change anyone's mind about Clinton. I realize that most people are "dug in" to whatever they believe...as I said...People will alway believe what they want to believe. My intention was to expose people to news sources which they might not be familiar. When it comes down to it, it's all about who you believe, isn't it? I happen not to believe Hillary's rhetoric largely because the sources I have researched has brought me to this conclusion. I tend not to do watch or listen to mainstream media, and I seek out sources of which I BELIEVE are trustworthy. That's how I base my OPINION. However, it is not my opinion...it is fact..that almost all mainstream media outlets are owned by just 6 major corporations. Do think they might have a vested interest in the outcome of the election? I really don't care who you, or others support. As I said, I think it's all a rigged system anyway. I just want to expose point of views from sources that are not often heard.

[Icssoma]

hadn't seen anything on wacco, about her early or recent accomplishments. huge & important. this campaign has been pretty focused on us (the US), when we talk trade, the complexities of trade, & who they help, & who is hurt is rarely addressed. it is less about "taking away American jobs", and more about shifts in the economies of the world. (conditions in India, China, & many non european countries are often appalling), disciplined & vocal consumers should have a huge role in this change.

we need to shift our approach to jobs & corporations. both are difficult, layered and take a thoughtful, and tenacious process.
same with new approaches within the criminal (non) justice system. these can be addressed, the seeds can be set, steps can be taken, but changing these policies for the better, involves huge grass roots movements, and amazing leadership. (the Ella Baker Center in the Bay Area, Southern Center on Law & Poverty, & 50 other ngo organizations are best suited to lay out game plans).

just learned this weekend about Rove & America's Rising support of Sanders.

the next step may well be to have gracious looser to unify the democratic party (as Hillary did for Obama in '08.)

taking back the senate and/or house would be huge, as well having nominations confirmed on the supreme court, along with a plan to appeal the citizen's united ruling ( a new amendment).
demos have rarely been unified. republicans have done better on this front. perhaps we can switch those roles now, & take some critical actions.

[podfish]

With the exception of a few enlightened souls, I find most of the comments on WACCO to largely reflect conventional thinking. And that's fine...everyone is entitled to their opinion, and WACCO does provide a wonderful formate for people to express their opinions, as long as those opinions are not too far outside the box. Again, no disrespect to Barry or WACCO; it is what it is.

Like you, I would welcome a venue where thinkers who are, as you say, non-conformists can express their ideas.

hmmm. I wonder which of those two groups you'd assign me to. Well, never mind. I'm confused, though.

What's wrong with this as a venue where thinkers can express their ideas? Unless you're only expecting the "yeah brother, AMEN!" as a response??

and I'm crushed to be (maybe) considered a conventional thinker. But there's a cliche I like: the race doesn't always go to the swift, but that's the way to bet. And 'conventional' ideas are like fast horses; they've often survived challenges from other ideas on their way to becoming commonly accepted. Not from some weird random draw, but from a reality-biased competition of ideas. Now, 'superficial' is a more accurate critique of many ideas. There's a lot of that in many posts. Criticisms of Bernie's socialism, based on a generalized and shallow understanding of what socialism even means, are really common. Unfortunately, I find a lot of the criticism of what's conventional is pretty shallow too. Which is sad, because it's a target-rich environment. There's a lot to criticize, but attacks on a strawman representation of conventional ideas is kind of content-free.

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

It's pretty simple to me at this point. Do we want to turn over all three branches of our government to the Republican party? I for one do not.

Thank you for a very informative link, in addition to containing 10 hrs. of Hillary laughing.....creepy stuff!

[Icssoma]

Hallelujah!!!