Double Homicide in Sebastopol Nov 23

[csell]

If you can help financially, here is the site: https://www.gofundme.com/hxc5g9k4 If you want to attend the memorial it will be Dec. 12, but the venue hasn't been set yet.

I think it's time to move on from the discussion of blame, hearsay, etc...If anybody has anything else to add about this tragedy or its aftermath you are welcome.I believe a memorial is being planned. Anybody have the information about that?

[Shandi]

For some reason I couldn't access the Go Fund Me link. Anyone else?

If you can help financially, here is the site: https://www.gofundme.com/hxc5g9k4 If you want to attend the memorial it will be Dec. 12, but the venue hasn't been set yet.

[csell]

https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

Does this work?

For some reason I couldn't access the Go Fund Me link. Anyone else?

[gypsey]

We need to know because if we don't know, we are ignorant. This is a multi-dimensional problem. It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community. I suggest you contact NAMI to hear the voices of the victims from the mentally ill to their families.

Really! ugh....
there is less clarity today than ever..
Assimilating facts? That's a slippery slope!
how presumptuous that any of us need to know a damn thing..

[gypsey]

Thanks for sharing Claire in response to my post.

Actually, there was blame mentioned and certainly judgment passed in previous posts. Whether they have been later edited or pulled, i don't know. Reading through them once was enough.
Some very good people are grieving for the loss and tragedy here. I wish them peace and comfort.
I wish it for everyone but especially for them.

[Icssoma]

i had hoped the discussion had just begun. sorry to see the negativity. hope we can rise above it. surely being responsible & respectful is easy enough. clear that only a few people who posted are knowledgeable about dramatic brain chemistry imbalances. we could dramatically transform our society, in the best ways, with solid information and some fairly easy changes.

i made the initial post in response to the suspect being on the loose, by linking to the (online) press demo article which covered the arrest of the suspect.

my other two goals, besides letting people know that the identified murderer had been apprehended, compelled me to post. again, critical to remember that in more than 90-95% of murders the victims know the assailant, (& a very high portion of that number is traditional domestic violence, husband murdering wife, & the most common "mass shooting", husband/partner killing spouse, children, in.laws, & any one at the site of the crime. had the honor of working in the domestic violence field for 15 years).

as a mother of an adult child "who is doing well" this week, i know of no greater pain or difficulty than raising a child that has a severe chemical imbalance.

resources are few, if they do exist for the most part inadequately funded/staffed. education can be a nightmare (rather than address the fact that our son was a non reader in lst grade the specialist who was in charge of funding lst denied the claim, & later lassoed his teacher into volunteering before and after school. we purchased zoo phonics for the school, & sent the teacher to the training so our son could learn the alphabet, successful. this was not an unusual approach to making "education work, and something we would have to repeat, or create, again, and again (our son additionally has learning disabilities with sequencing and symbols that make reading & math almost impossible.)

negotiating the "social service system" and "mental health community" take tenacity and dedication that are heroic, and the results may be mixed, or even poor, at any given time.

the horror and ordeal of undergoing a six month medication change can be more painful than any experience i have gone through (going through cancer, comparatively a walk in the park for me. often negotiated with a "higher power" to trade my health for my son's).

simultaneously, one will be isolated because many people don't want to spend time with your child, others think you are bad parents, and with discipline, more structure things would be great (structure is critical, but hard to come by when a child is in a manic state and can't sleep, additional complications inherent as well.).
we have come across a gem of a therapist, unfortunately no longer "with us", and a good psychiatrist, who moved out of state to take a university position so he could have benefits for his family.

each search for a good professional, is similar to finding a job, or moving, a major undertaking.
i had started a post on monday evening and didn't have the time to pen something thoughtful or substantial.
the topic is difficult. i may be lacking now, as a post can only cover so much territory.
no one wants to read a novella, but if one did, there are few things available that are helpful.
(remember being excited about the publication of the bipolar child, though my partner said "there is nothing we don't know, & the children are all doing much better in school.")

NAMI was not helpful for us, but a friend who has has had 2 children with adult onset brain chemistry issues has found it valuable.

i have found support from 3 other people who have had children in similar situations, though unfortunately not until 15 years into this. (the wonderful family of one young man i'll call michael, attempted to kill his adopted father when he was off of his medication. he a tragedy brought about by his horrible birth mom, who, when he was 18, he moved in what appeared to be an attempt to "rescue" this bad person. some articles in the pd give some insights into this families ordeal. for now, will say their son was a bright spot in our lives, and in our son's life. we live with the sadness of what has happened to michael & his devoted adoptive parents. we would not recognize the young man today, in jail, if we didn't know it was him. his desire is to go to prison, so he can have tv.)

every time we have encountered someone good in law enforcement, a teacher who had a handle on his situation, an adult who was kind, our day, week, and with an ongoing relationship, our lives were brighter.
it is easy to judge when one doesn't understand the reality for family members who have a child/adult child, brother, etc. who has a severe chemical imbalance.

people with mild bi.polar disorder maybe able to be treated with diet, supplements, therapies and a good routine. others may be dependent on bottles of medication, along with all of the other needs, which are more difficult as the best medical matches in more severe/complex cases only addresses the highest highs, and the lowest lows. brain paths/ruts and chemistry is different for schizophrenic's who may appear "normal" on medication.

again, mild cases of bi.polar disorder can often be helpful to some people to lead an accomplished life, while severe cases may be crippling at best.

part of the difficulty in discussing brain illnesses (the current director of the nat'l association of mental health, believes that the term "mental health" divides people in a destructive way, by not understanding health issues as inclusive, and separating the brain from the rest of the body, which we only do w. chemical imbalances. new to me, so i'm working to embrace a new vocabulary.)

another "comparatively easy fix" (along with new labeling, and having a populace that had some understanding of theses issues), is sharing these problems, as one begins to see how prevalent they are.
several other things that would change the world for families dealing with a member who suffers from a brain chemistry imbalance is affordable and accessible psychiatry, community centers with good therapists that were affordable and accessible, more & great community centers (haven't found one as an adult, but the Y offered such a resource for me as a teen), and another, helpful fix would be raising IHSS hours to $15-20 an hour. IHSS workers are some of the most important resources for families with health issues (covers home bound patients as well, saves 100's of thousands of $ in hospitalization, additionally critical for an aging population, as well as providing decent jobs available for people with good hearts and common sense who are natural caregivers, and perform some of the most important work in our society.

sorry for posting so much. a tight edit would take another hour i don't have.

thank you for giving this 1/2 the consideration of the new hospital and bike paths.

(the link took me to the "go fund me site", but not to the specific page. adding the town came up with many pages, gave up after 6, so a better link, or suggestions for search, the names didn't do it, would also be helpful.)

We need to know because if we don't know, we are ignorant. This is a multi-dimensional problem. It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community. I suggest you contact NAMI to hear the voices of the victims from the mentally ill to their families.

[rachanna]

A friend sent me the link to the Wilson family gofundme site:

https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

hope it works.

Icssoma, thank you for sharing. I have a close friend with an adult son living nearby with a severe brain imbalance/mental illness. Their struggle is excruciating to watch, and I often find myself praying for ways to be of more support or to facilitate their finding the right help/treatment. Such an incredibly challenging situation.

i had hoped the discussion had just begun....

[beshiva]

this is NOT about the people in this tragedy?
Wow!
so, i guess we all get to fiddle around and intellectually masturbate about mental illness...and THAT IS, the Response.
a time to grieve, a time to weep, a time to reflect, a time to talk, a time to be silent
peace, beshiva

...It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community...

[Icssoma]

from the small amount i read about in my neighborhood post (nextdoor) the son's illness weighed heavily on the mother. learning ways to change our world, to make it easier, and more responsive to families who have loved ones that suffer from brain chemistry imbalances, is a gift i believe that honors this family.

[Icssoma]

this link works! great to have the opportunity to give a little. thank you.

https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

[Thad]

How long should it go on where family, (small units of 3 and 1/2 people) are willing to speak out that they are not enough for the raising of their children and and then an angry demand for the Village it takes to raise their children is heard across the land,

Its no wonder people develop so much hate in their hearts, the vast amount of material abundance we have and the pathetic understanding of each other we have. Its no wonder at all the terrible things that happen. We are tribal creatures and without tribes, we go wrong.

[Claire]

A very dear friend of mine has a son who is schizophrenic. She has been an exemplary mother his whole life and his brother, with a better roll of the genetic dice I guess, is strong and stable.

Medical help was very hard to come by (they live in a different state) and to even get a diagnosis he had to be clean and sober, even from cannabis for 30 days. He was unable to do this as he self-medicated to relieve his continuous stress.

In the meantime, his mother was told by the one doctor she actually received help from that high quality fish oils can drastically help with the brain's chemical imbalances. Sometimes it is even enough to stabilize the patient according to some researches.

We heard this at a time when he was refusing to take the meds he had been prescribed earlier but he took his fish oil because it was a "vitamin" and it said "brain support" or some such thing and he liked that. (I bought them at Community Market.)

I don't share this because I think I am a qualified medical person but this may help someone who is in trouble but can be supported with nutrition or someone who is unable to get the medical help for whatever reason.
This otherwise wonderful young man eventually did get some help, through NAMI, I believe, but it is a long, harrowing road for him and his family and he is not out of the woods. We worry; of course we do.

Also, I had a long discussion with a knowledgeable fellow at Oliver's about fish oils and he pointed out that Jarrow makes a sustainable Krill Oil that is ?% more potent than mere fish oil. Unfortunately he forgot to mention that krill are crustaceans so anyone with a shellfish allergy shouldn't take them but my alarms went off somewhere on the drive home and I remembered for myself. yikes.

At any rate, maybe this can help someone on the edge.

[oonamourier]

There is 2 other technologies to deal with this....... Mathematics and redox signaling. Mathematics is the language of our DNA, so you can affect a being in way never seen before and the other is redox signaling which in the blood brain barrier can do a lot to neutralize oxydation and toxins.
Be happy to talk to anyone interested.
Oona

...In the meantime, his mother was told by the one doctor she actually received help from that high quality fish oils can drastically help with the brain's chemical imbalances...

[gypsey]

certainly vitamins and good nutrition are valuable in the treatment of brain chemistry disorders like schizophrenia, as has been proven before. However, if one truly has a brain chemistry disorder, more targeted treatment is needed than supportive nutrition therapy. Again, NAMI is a good source of information.

These are complex disorders and it is important to not give people false hope or to look for a panacea.

...but this may help someone who is in trouble but can be supported with nutrition or someone who is unable to get the medical help for whatever reason..

[Dorothy Friberg]

You are right, we do not want to read a novella. As I labored through your post, I saw little if anything about the experience of the client herself. I say .client because I think that we cannot presume to assist our family member without first having a diagnosis. There are huge inadequacies in "the system" but that does not mean that our county is not making efforts. I admire and respect the efforts and attention Mike Kennedy, our present mental health director is making in addition to the several non-profits such as Community and Family Services. Also the self-help programs of. Interlink and Wellness Center. Much of this is funded by MHSA money and there are multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding.

I would urge all interested parties to view the movie "The Butterfly Effect" which gives us insight into the world of at least one person with mental illness. This one had positive outcomes, but not all do.

i had hoped the discussion had just begun. sorry to see the negativity. hope we can rise above it. ...

[Thad]

Who are you to speak for me as We?

You are right, we do not want to read a novella. ...

[pamelaL]

I think our culture has failed abysmally when it comes to mental health, and health period; it has fallen to corporate interests. The masses by and large do not want to take responsibility for their health, preferring to abdicate their personal authority to the doctors, who are listening to drug reps instead of reading their own science, but I digress...

There are those who do want to take charge of their and their family's health! The Sonoma County Library has several copies of a book entitled "Nutrient Power" by William Walsh, PhD who studied over 30,000 depressed, or biopolar, or schizophrenic etc. etc. people and dialed in what can be done with simple supplementation to ameliorate many of these situations. We need to help ourselves in this age of change, and read the science because it seems like many "experts" are not doing so.

Pamela Lewis (RN in integrative medicine)

[Icssoma]

sorry my post was so unclear. my child has had what we, and professionals we trust believe is bipolar disorder from a very young age. signs of OCD, were present as early as 2, along w. night terrors, that never ended, until he was medicated (which allowed him to sleep through the night in addition to other benefits. in the 90's bi.polar disorder wasn't recognized by the AMA as occurring in children. it was believed by many to not begin until between 15-25, the more common time for onset of full symptoms. (this is why i mentioned the bipolar child, as it was a "break through book" discussing many individuals who were diagnosed with this brain chemistry imbalance as children.) Somewhere in the late 90's the disorder was acknowledged as occurring in children.

diagnosis for brain chemistry disorders is often backwards, good responses to medication often are used as a tool for diagnosis.

my post was more about our experience as a parent. having a child with such an illness dominates much of one's life. each step of the way we have sought out solid professionals, and advocated for good help/programs.

more than 20 years into this, we are working with him and a team, to increase his independence and take more responsibility, which is challenging for someone who wants to "be on their own", but fearful, as well as discouraged by the awareness that he will always need support/help in managing his life.

he doesn't read or write (learning disorders) and is resistant to programs that could assist him (read & write gold, dragon, etc.), he sees such programs as putting him outside the norm, and wants more than anything to appear/be "normal".

I was hoping to give people some idea of the difficulties of negotiating the health care system: what things were helpful to our family, and in my responses, what others can do help families like ours feel supported/less isolated (what we wanted for many years).

our son, and many of his friends function with varying degrees of success.

a child who suffers from a severe chemical imbalance, has a brain that is in chaos, and the person often seeks chaos to mirror their world. during those years little social growth was possible, so he missed out on many key parts of early years, and has been "catching up" ever since. I doubt my son would feel comfortable talking about these issues in a public setting.

I'm hoping there will be a time when he realizes how many people he can help when he can be open about what it has been like growing up on the edge of society. would be great for him to experience the freedom that he might know when he is not feeling compelled to embrace macho stereotypes as a persona to feel accepted.

I have tried to present information that might be helpful to understanding some of what parents go through-- the difficulties in this painful journey-- and to help shed light for people wanting to understand these health issues, while letting people know ways they can support families like ours, and to convey to others the mammoth lifetime job this is for family/parents who are trying to help their children/adult children.

You are right, we do not want to read a novella. As I labored through your post, I saw little if anything about the experience of the client herself. ...insight into the world of at least one person with mental illness. This one had positive outcomes, but not all do.

[Shandi]

Thad,

I believe that a "village" may be in the best interests of our children, and some get it in co-housing, intentional communities, shared housing, even communes, etc, but "an angry demand" for others to help us care for our children just isn't going to make that happen. We must take responsibility for our choices to live apart from our original extended family, and there may be good reasons for it.

Some of these reasons may be economics, mental health issues, and/or our incompatibility. Just because we have a blood family doesn't mean they might be capable or desirable of influencing our children. I speak from experience, coming from an ancestry of mental illness on BOTH sides. I kept my father and brother away as much as possible.

The bipolar man I've supported for over 25 years, is very clear that he doesn't want to bring more children into this world with the potential to perpetuate his disorder. He also has family history of it, all forms of abuse and alcoholism, on BOTH sides. It would have taken a miracle for him to escape it.

Also, ancient and modern villages have their problems too; they have different ways of dealing with it. I think there was something on Wacco, awhile back with a tribal image.

I agree that the excessive attachment to material creates an avenue that leads away from the heart. I feel great sadness when I see mothers and or fathers (mostly mothers) with babies/children in their care, while they only have eyes for the "communication device". I can't even imagine nursing a baby and not gazing at them, speaking softly, humming or singing to them. Or sitting next to a child with my attention only on my "device" as they watch and learn what's more important than they are.

I fear that as difficult as things appear now, the negative effect of this on the young ones, will reverberate for a very long time to come. Whenever I see a child, I look into their eyes, and acknowledge them. I hope others do this too. Only yesterday I had the experience of seeing a little girl about 6, with a younger brother about 2, holding his hand to keep him away from moving cars. When I looked at her, and waved, she brightened, and returned the sweetest smile. Our acknowledgment of each other is the basis for intimacy. Our potential "village" is closer than we realize, but we must begin with strangers. They may be friends and allies we haven't met.

I live in a senior mobile home park that doesn't provide an personal welcome to new comers. I've asked several times if I could be the "greeter", but my request isn't even acknowledged. So, if I know about a new owner, I make it a point to knock on their door, and say "welcome to our neighborhood!"

How long should it go on where family, (small units of 3 and 1/2 people) are willing to speak out that they are not enough for the raising of their children and and then an angry demand for the Village it takes to raise their children is heard across the land,

Its no wonder people develop so much hate in their hearts, the vast amount of material abundance we have and the pathetic understanding of each other we have. Its no wonder at all the terrible things that happen. We are tribal creatures and without tribes, we go wrong.

[Shandi]

Susan,

Thank you so much for your personal sharing. I'm curious if you have a family history of alcoholism, mental illness, MPD and/or dis-associative disorder that may have been passed on. The reason I ask about DD is because of night terrors. Was there any guess as to what these may have been related to, other than a chemical imbalance? Voices? I'm wondering if my brother may have had those also, as an infant. He wasn't diagnosed until he was in his early 20's, after several foster homes, institutions and jail. He refused the medications which made him feel like a "zombie" or "vegetable". He had a brilliant mind, and a photographic memory, able to repeat book pages word for word.

sorry my post was so unclear. my child has had what we, and professionals we trust believe is bipolar disorder from a very young age. signs of OCD, were present as early as 2, along w. night terrors, that never ended, until he was medicated (which allowed him to sleep through the night in addition to other benefits. in the 90's bi.polar disorder wasn't recognized by the AMA as occurring in children. it was believed by many to not begin until between 15-25, the more common time for onset of full symptoms. (this is why i mentioned the bipolar child, as it was a "break through book" discussing many individuals who were diagnosed with this brain chemistry imbalance as children.)
somewhere in the late 90's the disorder was acknowledged as occurring in children.
diagnosis for brain chemistry disorders is often backwards, good responses to medication often are used as a tool for diagnosis.
my post was more about our experience as a parent. having a child with such an illness dominates much of one's life. each step of the way we have sought out solid professionals, and advocated for good help/programs.
more than 20 years into this, we are working with him and a team, to increase his independence and take more responsibility, which is challenging for someone who wants to "be on their own", but fearful, as well as discouraged by the awareness that he will always need support/help in managing his life.
he doesn't read or write (learning disorders) and is resistant to programs that could assist him (read & write gold, dragon, etc.), he sees such programs as putting him outside the norm, and wants more than anything to appear/be "normal".
was hoping to give people some idea of the difficulties of negotiating the health care system: what things were helpful to our family, and in my responses, what others can do help families like ours feel supported/less isolated (what we wanted for many years).
our son, and many of his friends function with varying degrees of success.
a child who suffers from a severe chemical imbalance, has a brain that is in chaos, and the person often seeks chaos to mirror their world. during those years little social growth was possible, so he missed out on many key parts of early years, and has been "catching up" ever since.
doubt my son would feel comfortable talking about these issues in a public setting.
hoping there will be a time when he realizes how many people he can help when he can be open about what it has been like growing up on the edge of society. would be great for him to experience the freedom that he might know when he is not feeling compelled to embrace macho stereotypes as a persona to feel accepted.
have tried to present information that might be helpful to understanding some of what parents go through-- the difficulties in this painful journey-- and to help shed light for people wanting to understand these health issues, while letting people know ways they can support families like ours, and to convey to others the mammoth lifetime job this is for family/parents who are trying to help their children/adult children.

[pamelaL]

I find it sad that there are "multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding" (from the MHSA) - when they should all be well funded social services. The old "joke" about the Pentagon having bake sales to fund their wars comes to mind.

...Much of this is funded by MHSA money and there are multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding...

[Zwilson]

Csell you have misinformation throughout your post. My name is Zachary Wilson youngest son of Adrianne Chapin and David Wilson. I have never met you in the context of my family. I myself have never had any mental health issues, my siblings and I weren't permitted to use drugs and alcohol and to my knowledge none of us had sex before the age of 10. Get your facts right before putting your foot in your mouth. Quote from the all knowing Thumper "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all".

To set the record straight, I will share some insights with you. They moved to Forestville from Hayward 15+ years ago to have good schools available to their children. All of the kids have had "mental health" issues, despite the fact that they evolved from a tremendously loving, supportive family and extended family. I'm only going to mention this because of your desire to have good options for your own children: these three were raised in the most permissive of all environments, having opportunity to experiment with alcohol, drugs and sex before they were even 10. [IMHO, children need guidance and boundaries and rules.] I personally know a great deal about mental health issues and we could debate the nature/nurture issue to the end of time. Just know this--Nathan was not a nonfunctional adult "living at home." He was a smart, successful plumber and carpenter with amazing skills and talents who chose a lot of bad paths to follow. One of the greatest tragedies is that at age 34, he has now chosen to throw away the rest of his life.

[Zwilson]

Thank you so much for helping support my family during this tragedy. It is greatly appreciated.

A friend sent me the link to the Wilson family gofundme site:
https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

[kpage9]

Zachary, thanks so much for speaking up. This must have been unimaginably awful for you. If you have any inclination to shed light on what happened, I know lots of us would really welcome it--many of us are trying to make sense of frightening offspring and our community in general. You may be under instructions not to say much at all, though--I imagine the defense team is trying to keep a tight lid on it.

I must say I am mystified by csell's wildly different portrayal.

And to those who might think this is an inappropriate conversation for the community--imho it is so certainly not. We are linked. Remember the meme about the butterfly in one place affecting a country across the globe? Well this is one hell of a big butterfly, and we can't NOT be affected. As humans we look for meaning, so some of us are really scrambling to find some credible cause and effect here.

Again, my gratitude to you. And my hopes that you're being supported wisely and warmly.

kathy

Csell you have misinformation throughout your post. My name is Zachary Wilson youngest son of Adrianne Chapin and David Wilson....

[beshiva]

hi Zachary, i'm sorry you even Had to respond to this thread. i'm sorry you had to read some of the self-serving overreach of a few. a whole lot of gossip, very little substance. Why it couldn't have been given a rest!

[gypsey]

I join you in supporting Zachary and expressing appreciation for his speaking out at a time of devastating loss for him, and if he feels comfortable sharing insights re what happened then we might learn from his experience..
Regarding being mystified about CSell's very different portrayal, it could be one person's portrayal as grudge or judgment---or it could be objective. We don't know! There are many truths in memory and perspective.
What can we do in the meantime? We can all try to learn without creating a mental movie.
We can use our learning from this tragedy to advance knowledge and support for mental illness and families.
And we can sit on our questions. We all want answers, but they will be a long time coming.
Thanks to all who have expressed their caring....like you, I am a member of this community and we are all hurting and wondering.

Zachary, thanks so much for speaking up...