New Neighbors Planning to Block Access to Ragle Park

[nancypreb]

I really appreciate the link Richard! I think there is some very valuable information in it. I've highlighted a few key points that seem to always get glossed over when Waccos talk about how much better Europeans are than Americans when it comes to the issue of public access vs private property. I would also like to point out the consistent tendency to ignore the effects of population growth (referenced towards the end, under "Criticism") when advocating for practices that predate a couple centuries, and culturally established under feudalism and serfdom. Again, thank you for the link. I found it very reassuring that some of us are not the uptight and defensive, painfully American, property owners who inherently lack good ethics or European sensibility, as is often the accusation.

Just as a reminder, we're talking about "...a path through a field and wood that was, until recently, part of a much larger orchard parcel. That piece was bought by a vineyard and subdivided...

"In England and Wales public access rights apply to certain categories of mainly uncultivated land—specifically 'mountain, moor, heath, down and registered common land.' Developed land, gardens and certain other areas are specifically excluded from the right of access. Agricultural land is accessible if it falls within one of the categories described above....

Many tropical countries such as Madagascar have historic policies of open access to forest or wilderness areas. This practice in the rainforests of eastern Madagascar and in the Madagascar dry deciduous forests has led to considerable destruction of habitat, much of which is effectively irreversible...<sup>[citation needed]


Today, the right to roam has survived in perhaps its purest form in Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. Here the right has been won through practice over hundreds of years[1] and it is not known when it changed from mere 'common practice' to become a commonly recognised right....

In Denmark, there is a more restricted freedom to roam on privately held land....

In Finland...Everyone may walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people's homes (yards). Fields and plantations, which may easily be harmed, may usually not be crossed except in the winter.

Everyone in Norway enjoys the right of access to, and passage through, uncultivated land in the countryside.

In Sweden allemansrätten (lit. "the everyman's right")...gives a person the right to access, walk, cycle, ride, ski, and camp on any land—with the exception of private gardens, the immediate vicinity of a dwelling house and land under cultivation.

In recent years population growth has increased pressure on some areas popular for hiking and increased mobility and affluence has made previously remote areas more accessible. There is some concern that without ecological education, some recreational users have limited understanding of the economic and natural systems they are exploring, though significant harm or damage is unusual, the main concerns being disturbance of sensitive species of wildlife (particularly by dogs), and litter.

The 1992 Rio Convention on Biodiversity (subscribed to by 189 countries) expressed some caution about the potential effect of unlimited access, especially in tropical forests, where slash and burn practices undermine biodiversity.[citation needed] For this reason, broad public access rights are challenged in some countries' resulting Biodiversity Action Plan. Critics from defenders of proprietorship sometimes assert that the All People's Right threatens the essence of ownership and the "management practices" of property owners, who may or may not have created and preserved environmentally important qualities [22] Private owners and their representatives have also argued that newly created access rights ought to lead to financial compensation for private landowners."</sup>

[Richard Nichols]

If nothing else, you have pointed out how complicated the simple act of walking has become. Over population may be the problem and in the US, who knows? Can someone with some social anthropology (is that the right discipline?) bent tell us how private property became so sacrosanct? Yes, by the way, I own property, and also my wife and I are avid hikers.

I'm sure I didn't point out that some of us are not uptight, but I didn't mean everyone either.

One thing the US has done extremely well is make public some of the most dramatic landscapes in the world.
I fear that extremism, esp from the right, might reverse that. Hmmm, I wonder what we could sell Yosemite Valley for? Maybe the Disney Company would buy it for a theme park.

My first exposure to open land came in the early 80's in Wales. We were staying at a lovely 17th Century farmhouse when a man knocked on the door and I opened it. He asked the owner if the book he was holding was correct, that a drovers trail went thru the farmyard. Oh yes, says the owner, just walked around behind the house and thru the farmyard, and look for a track going up the hill. I was floored. The drovers trails were historically used to herd a drove of cattle and sheep, and now identified for recreational use.

I sympathize with Kate, it is sad to see access closed.

Anyway nancyprep I'm happy you found the link useful.

I really appreciate the link Richard! ...

[Shandi]

This is very interesting to know how other countries see this issue.

I had a thought about an issue that hasn't been addressed yet. That is "fear" of the unknown. If I welcome strangers on my land, I may make myself more vulnerable in ways I may or may not even imagine. So, I can protect myself by maintaining the position of "No", which seems safer. Then at least the risk from that is handled.

In other countries, the fear is around the potential destruction of ecology and effects on habitat. These fears are based on experience, and the restrictions are in place to "protect" the ecosystems.

My own naive position is that "strangers are just friends I haven't met" isn't realistic either. We all know that humans have degrees of self interest, and in many people self interest takes precedence over consideration of others, which is not altogether a negative position. Because if we don't take care of ourselves, who will? For us to expect that everyone will show consideration for our property is also naive.

The ideal is that we share what we have, in a way that doesn't jeopardize us or our loved ones. Sometimes that's an unpredictable call. We all have certain fears, and some of these have come from experiences, some of them from our imagination. Some of our fears are immobilizing to us, and some are immobilizing to others! This may be a simple case of (subconscious or conscious) fear of "what could happen" if they allow strangers anywhere on their property.

I really appreciate the link Richard!...

[theindependenteye]

Hi, y'all, Elizabeth here --

As a long-ago and long-time attender of Friends Meeting (Quakers), I have really appreciated the most recent drift toward balance. You know, this might actually work out. Or not. But at least it seemed to avoid trolling and flame war.

Since our daughter's relocating to Italy more than fifteen years ago, I have made annual pilgrimages to a tiny island (shoe-shaped, only 10 miles long) off the northwest coast of France. I don't know anybody there, nobody knows me except for the earth. Gaia REALLY knows me, and I feel as "home" there as in Sebastopol, the only other place that gets me like this.

In that space of time, I have hiked the entire perimeter of the island, a daunting task if you consider that it's much like Norway's fjords -- hike north a little, then hike way inland to climb down to sea level, cross the stream, hike back up, and double back to across the chasm. But I did it, and also walked the north/south and east/west axes.

All these paths I walked were privately owned, but they were carefully signposted and well-maintained. The folks who live there know that their land is beautiful, and they want to make it accessible. However, the walkers in this remote location are probably different from the average. Maybe both owners and walkers are more like what we'd hope to be here in S'pol?

Belle Isle is sort of self-selecting, off in a backwater area and out in the ocean by a 45-minute ferry ride. I never hear anybody speaking English here except at the hostel. And the European travelers aren't exactly like this, for the most part:

https://wtnh.com/2014/09/17/video-li...ck-at-drivers/

But couldn't we aspire to this?

Elizabeth

[gypsey]

Kudos to you for your decision re your neighbors, but once again I want to repeat that the mistakes were made when the property was subdivided (not these new neighbors' fault) and you should be pursuing (if you want to) disclosures there and whether they were above-board by the original owners. All the best!

Well. After a lot of thought, and much good advice here, ...

[Richard Nichols]

Thanks for this wonderful reply. I wanna go, where is this Island?
My wife and I have hiked in Ireland a fair amount, she is from Dublin with bunches of family there.
They have a wonderful trails system:
https://www.irishtrails.ie
We hiked the Kerry Way and it went thru farmland, past old stone farmsteads, along farm roads, old historic carriage ways, and it was wonderful, albiet a bit wet! The Wiclow Way was not as dramatic, but still fun. We have stories.

We also have a friend whose family owns land on the Arrow Peninsula, and the owners of land there developed a trail around the peninsula for public use. It all seems so refined and civilized.

Hi, y'all, Elizabeth here --...