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  1. TopTop #31
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Carrillo took the stand today, and admitted all kinds of bad behavior -- stopping short of any behavior for which he could be convicted of "peeking".

    The evidence to date is tenuous and circumstantial, and probably not enough to support a conviction.

    See and play the YouTube video of his 11:28 testimony at the PD website:
    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...news/140429759
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  3. TopTop #32
    daynurse
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    (Frankly, the reactions I saw on WACCO after the incident happened tapped into my existential sense of hopelessness. The environmental, civil rights, anti-war, and especially the feminist movements have all failed. And, here on Wacco, where I believed I would find empathetic souls, misogynistic interpretations of the events from the get-go sent me into a personal cocoon. No woman wants anyone within 20 feet of her window while she sleeps. I just don't get anyone thinking anything else ...) Peggy


    Below is from a comment in today's PD.


    Thomas Bonfigli
    I'm back from attending the trial. And I have to tell you that in my nearly 34 years as a Certified Court Reporter, that Deputy D.A. Brad Hunt's cross-examination of our disgraced golden boy was absolutely one of the most brutal cross-examinations that I have ever witnessed or heard! In fact - and I sure hope that you are all sitting down for this - it was so tough and shot E.C.'s "credibility" so full of buckshot holes that it actually was evincing of a bit of sorrow from this perennial Carrillo critic - but just a LITTLE bit. Why on earth did Andrian allow this defendant to take the stand knowing that there were SO MANY documented inconsistencies which could be used against him to impeach his testimony? Permit me to speculate as to why:

    They were trying to use the "sympathy factor." And, let me tell you something, folks: IT FELL FLAT. Why? Here's why:

    1. He has now ADMITTED to damaging Jane Doe's window screen.
    2. He has now ADMITTED walking through her garage unannounced and without her permission.
    3. He has now ADMITTED that he was hoping to have sex with her.
    4. He has now ADMITTED that his "girlfriend" dropped him off after attending Club 25, and then she left. (!)
    5. He has now ADMITTED that he had his cell phone with him.
    6. He has now ADMITTED that he went to her back door.
    7. He has now ADMITTED that he saw her light on.
    8. He has now ADMITTED that he thought it was a "man's voice," even though there were NO MEN inside Jane Doe's apartment.
    9. He has now ADMITTED that he "had" an overinflated ego and thought that he could get any woman he wanted.
    10. He has now ADMITTED telling the police a different story than what he testified to on the stand today - and, believe me, there were so many inconsistencies in his lengthy testimony that I do now have enough fingers and toes upon which to count them!

    When my parents and I went to trial for the second time in their real-property lawsuit, the case came down to two things: the proper law being applied to the case (in the second trial, as directed by the California Court of Appeal) and the truthfulness - or veracity - of the witnesses. I am proud to say that my family members and I - as well as our other witnesses who were called to the stand - told the honest-to-God's truth, and the jury's verdict and the comments which they made afterwards reflected that.

    Let us now hope that the jury - who, as far as I could tell, was really taking their sworn duty seriously - returns a verdict which will not only give Jane Doe some justice, but one which will make Lady "J" smile proud in Sonoma County once again so that our faith in our system of criminal jurisprudence will be at least somewhat restored.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-25-2014 at 12:37 PM.
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  5. TopTop #33
    Victoria Street's Avatar
    Victoria Street
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Geoff Johnson: View Post
    Carrillo took the stand today, and admitted all kinds of bad behavior -- stopping short of any behavior for which he could be convicted of "peeking".

    The evidence to date is tenuous and circumstantial, and probably not enough to support a conviction.

    See and play the YouTube video of his 11:28 testimony at the PD website:
    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...news/140429759
    It is not pleasant to watch Efren squirm. However, don't be fooled. The eleventh hour called for a stellar performance on his part, and I dare say he ventured to deliver. In the end, though, it just became ridiculous. Admitting to the obvious - wanting to have sex with her, knocking on her door, trying to get her attention, sticking his hand through her bedroom window while juggling 2 beers and a camera phone (huh?), but, of course, he DID NOT PEEK! Such an unfortunate game this all is...
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  7. TopTop #34
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Video link: watch the sad spectacle of the cross-exam for yourself

    Tonight I watched Efren's testimony, then the lucid cross-examination

    Check our this video 6, forward to about 6 minutes into it to hear him answer what he was doing there.


    It is a sober and sad spectacle. Efren comes off as a little boy, repentant, aware what he did was bad, and about to cry. I do not think he is acting. I feel empathy for him, and sadness.

    BUT this does not mitigate his guilt. Nor does it suggest that he will not return to his insanely egomaniacal, sexist, ways when he leaves the courtroom. It was a sad spectacle. And rare. I hope it does not sway any jurors, as it was intended. There is no disputing, in my mind, that what he did was a crime, and that he needs to do his time. It seems to be that this EXACT type of situation is what anti-peeping laws were enacted to prevent. His defense, that he was there and reached in a bedroom window unannounced at 3 a.m. dressed in his underwear, hoping to have sex with her, BUT he did not look in, so it was technically not peeping, seems absurd to me.

    It would be a travesty if either the jury lets him off, the judge does not sentence appropriately (jail time), OR he stays on the Board. Any of these outcomes will tell our sisters, mothers, daughters, partners and friends that this behavior is condoned by our community. IT IS NOT!
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  8. TopTop #35
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Alexia: View Post


    A few corrections:


    Ravitch knew exactly what happened and let him off ...

    Ravitch recused her office, because EC is an elected County official. The prosecutor is from Napa, I believe.

    I hope to god a jury can change the charge and find him guilty of what he's really guilty of ...

    They may find him guilty of "attempted peeking".

    I hope they find that it reasonable to assume you can't tear a screen without looking at what you're doing and seeing thru it by default ...

    Inside the window were blinds, which Jane Doe heard rustling.
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  10. TopTop #36
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Video link: watch the sad spectacle of the cross-exam for yourself

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    There is no disputing, in my mind, that what he did was a crime, and that he needs to do his time. It seems to be that this EXACT type of situation is what anti-peeping laws were enacted to prevent. His defense, that he was there and reached in a bedroom window unannounced at 3 a.m. dressed in his underwear, hoping to have sex with her, BUT he did not look in, so it was technically not peeping, seems absurd to me.
    Many aspects of the criminal justice system seem absurd to me too.

    Surely EC was guilty of something. But unfortunately, the prosecutors couldn't think of a more appropriate charge (Trespassing? Vandalism?). Andrian's defense strategy appears to have been an abject apology -- to show that he's learned his lesson -- while not admitting to the specific charge of "peeking".
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  12. TopTop #37

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Geoff Johnson: View Post
    Ravitch recused her office, because EC is an elected County official. The prosecutor is from Napa, I believe.
    I stand corrected. It was Cody Hunt, Napa DA.Do I think there was zero backroom colusion, no.The singluar minor charge was ridiculous considering the gravity of the situation and the charges he was arrested for. The police should have given him an alcohol test and the multiple charges should have been:
    1. Public Drunkenness
    2. Breaking and Entering
    3. Attempted Sexual Assault

    I said:
    I hope they find that it reasonable to assume you can't tear a screen without looking at what you're doing and seeing thru it by default ...

    You responded:
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Geoff Johnson: View Post
    Inside the window were blinds, which Jane Doe heard rustling.

    Correct, but I have not read how open or closed the blinds were, and in either case they are easily spread for peeking. However, luckily the charges do not specify what window. I hope this jumped out at the jurors as it did me:
    Minute 1:02 from EFREN CARRILLO DAY 3 VIDEO (Part 3)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAHFZziGxwo

    Prosecutor: "....at any time, did you look inside that front window....."
    Efren: "Ya."
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  14. TopTop #38
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Alexia: View Post
    The police should have given him an alcohol test and the multiple charges should have been:
    1. Public Drunkenness
    That sounds like it might have been a reasonable charge in this case. It seems negligent for the cops not to have alcohol-tested him.

    Quote 2. Breaking and Entering
    I had the impression from earlier discussion here that Efren's actions don't meet the legal criteria for breaking and entering. Maybe trespassing? And if he damaged the screen (not sure that's been established), perhaps vandalism?

    Quote 3. Attempted Sexual Assault
    I don't know where you're getting this from. Yes, he behaved wrongly, intrusively, in a way that would be scary for the woman (though it appears he didn't realize that at the time). Yes, he was hoping to have sex with the woman. But I see zero indication that he would have sexually assaulted her, as opposed to hoping/expecting that she would willingly participate. Speaking as one who, like most heterosexual males and many females, has hoped to have sex with thousands of women over the years, and has even gone to their homes late at night on a few occasions (though always with both an invitation and pants), I don't feel very safe living in a community wherein some folks seem to equate horniness with a desire/willingness to commit sexual assault.
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  16. TopTop #39

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    I had the impression from earlier discussion here that Efren's actions don't meet the legal criteria for breaking and entering. Maybe trespassing? And if he damaged the screen (not sure that's been established), perhaps vandalism?
    I am basing both these 'should have been charged' purely on lifelong observations of what charges have been brought on people for what, and frequently being surprised about how something seemingly little was seen as something so big in the eyes of the law. What Efren did was much bigger. In this case he really did 'break' something however small (the screen) and by putting his hand inside 'entered'. I recall cases where the whole body didn't have to enter to be called breaking and entering, and has to do with the reasonable assessment of what intention the action indicated. In Efren's case, a reasonable expectation of ill intent far exceeded a benefit of doubt.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    I don't know where you're getting this from. Yes, he behaved wrongly, intrusively, in a way that would be scary for the woman (though it appears he didn't realize that at the time). Yes, he was hoping to have sex with the woman. But I see zero indication that he would have sexually assaulted her, as opposed to hoping/expecting that she would willingly participate. Speaking as one who, like most heterosexual males and many females, has hoped to have sex with thousands of women over the years, and has even gone to their homes late at night on a few occasions (though always with both an invitation and pants), I don't feel very safe living in a community wherein some folks seem to equate horniness with a desire/willingness to commit sexual assault.
    There's no equating going on here. I don't think anyone is drawing any similarity whatsoever between average horniness and public booty hunting, and this situation of someone showing up at 3am unexpected and with pants already off at a sleeping woman's bedroom window drunk and ripping the window screen.

    If you're basing your concern about equating having to do with observations of attempted sexual assault being levied for seemingly much, much less like in other cases, then granted - but the police obviously do it because though hardly anything has happened to our eye - they know what the signs are of likely intention and where it frequently ends up.

    Ask any officer (and me) how many assaults start with someone drunk asking nicely. Point being, the situation turns quickly upon being rebuffed, and if the person was arrested with anything way off base to start before getting far - like the time, screen and Efren having no pants already, that's a huge indication that it would have gone bad fast upon getting disappointed. This situation of drunk + things way off base + sexual overtones seems way more than they usually need to call it attempted.

    I also wonder if because it's so out of the realm of possibility for you to be that creepy or violent, you really don't get how close to that line many more men are than you think, especially with alcohol.
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  18. TopTop #40
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Alexia: View Post
    In this case he really did 'break' something however small (the screen)...
    So then, it actually has been established that Efren tore the screen, rather than its having been torn before he ever arrived?

    Re: your other remarks--of course it's not implausible that the combination of horniness and alcoholic disinhibition could conceivably result in a sexual assault. Such situations often do end up that way, but even more often they don't. The fact is that nothing Efren did constituted sexual assault or even attempted sexual assault, so suggesting he be charged with such on the basis of fantasies about what might have happened seems to show a cavalier attitude toward justice.
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  20. TopTop #41
    Victoria Street's Avatar
    Victoria Street
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Jury in Efren Carrillo peeking trial to resume deliberations Monday | The Press Democrat

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...qXob5-6Y.email
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  22. TopTop #42
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    That sounds like it might have been a reasonable charge in this case. It seems negligent for the cops not to have alcohol-tested him.
    I agree with you and Alexia on this first one. If Carrillo has been an alcoholic since high school -- some 15 years -- he probably can be legally drunk and hardly show it. That would also explain (but not excuse) how he could close a bar at 2am, come home, take his clothes off, and then go calling on a neighbor at 3am. The prosecution didn't file the more serious charges, probably because they knew they couldn't prove them -- and perhaps, because Carrillo wouldn't plead to a lesser charge.
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  23. TopTop #43
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    So then, it actually has been established that Efren tore the screen, rather than its having been torn before he ever arrived?
    He was vague about that, saying something like it is "evident" that he must have, or "evidently" he did.

    I believe it remains unclear whether he went first to her bedroom window -- supporting the charge of "peeking" -- or first knocked at her front door, suggesting that he had a "lawful purpose" in going to see her (even though his admitted purpose was to put the make on her).

    She woke at the noise at her window, and later saw him from the living room. I'm not aware of any evidence other than his word, that he knocked at the front, before going to her window.
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  25. TopTop #44
    Beverly Schenck's Avatar
    Beverly Schenck
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    If Carrillo gets away with this offense, the next time an innocent women will be raped. The man is sick.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street: View Post
    Jury in Efren Carrillo peeking trial to resume deliberations Monday | The Press Democrat

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...qXob5-6Y.email
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  27. TopTop #45

    Re: Efren's side of the argument is unpersuasive

    This was such a blatant product placement endorsement after the fact; it's sick for someone supposedly out of rehab to essentially pitch support for a brand.

    I appreciate all the good community work that brewer does; just wish they had done something to distance themselves from the perpetrator and his creepy actions done with their product in tow.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by photolite: View Post
    Yeah, but at least no one can accuse him of drinking shitty beer.
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  28. TopTop #46

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    They're having trouble finding jurors that are un-aware of this case. It's possible the case may be moved out of county.

    It will be very interesting to see the gender makeup of the jury.
    BIG mistake to have it heard here! Only glad I did not have to travel far to witness this fiasco.
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  29. TopTop #47

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Amazingly enough, seems as though Efren will have his day (or two) in court, whether he wants to or not! ...

    We just might find out what actually happened, or at least 2 very different, yet each very well supported, versions of what happened that night.
    Unfortunately my response to this topic has been re-directed; does Barry, or ? want to deny the readers of this thread my truth and opinions?

    Thread hijacking is not OK, it's a form of censorship so un-west county-like.

    Please take a look at the last post on the "Colleen's Blog" thread for deeper insights to this travesty in our midst. Thanks!

    www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?99690-Colleen-s-Blog&p=178844&highlight=#post178844
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  30. TopTop #48
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck: View Post
    If Carrillo gets away with this offense, the next time an innocent women will be raped. The man is sick.
    Granted, it was wrong for Carrillo to intrude upon this woman, but muddying the waters with your rape fantasies when there is no real reason to believe that Carillo would ever sexually assault anyone is not a constructive contribution to the discussion.
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  32. TopTop #49

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    Granted, it was wrong for Carrillo to intrude upon this woman, but muddying the waters with your rape fantasies when there is no real reason to believe that Carillo would ever sexually assault anyone is not a constructive contribution to the discussion.
    And what evidence do you have to support that Efren Carrillo would not engage in any type of sexual assault or misconduct? You just assume it.

    I have heard too many statements from too many people to draw any conclusion other than he is a sexual predator; how far that line extends was clear the night he was caught in underwear tearing a window screen where the victim was sleeping.

    What may have happened if Efren had not thought he heard a man's voice and "bailed", or been caught by the cops that night is unknown.

    What is known is that treatment for substance abuse is not intended for those, as Efren admitted on the stand are sex addicts & exhibit intruder behavior. He needs the full force of the law AND sex addict counseling to even begin to rehabilitate himself.

    He should not be our Supervisor. If Filner can be fired from Mayor of San Diego for just groping, Carrillo should be forced to go, one way or another.

    I am sick that the folks in the business of elections don't think a recall would succeed, nor that anyone here is strong enough to run in it. Really makes me wonder about the political power players operating outside of Bosco's team.

    Calling anther's statement on this a "rape fantasy" causes me to have concerns about you Dixon. Disturbing choice of words.
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  34. TopTop #50
    Nevermind
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    When you say,

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    ...The fact is that nothing Efren did constituted sexual assault or even attempted sexual assault, so suggesting he be charged with such on the basis of fantasies about what might have happened seems to show a cavalier attitude toward justice.
    I don't know how you can say nothing he did constituted attempted sexual assault: IF I showed up at your house at 3 am, drunk & wearing only bra & panties, fiddling around your window - what would you think? I understand that women are less likely to force themselves on men, in general - but in this case, men have got to be able to empathize with women (& the frequency of sexual violence against women) for justice to happen.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-27-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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  36. TopTop #51
    Geoff Johnson
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    However, luckily the charges do not specify what window. I hope this jumped out at the jurors as it did me:
    Minute 1:02 from EFREN CARRILLO DAY 3 VIDEO (Part 3)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAHFZziGxwo

    Prosecutor: "....at any time, did you look inside that front window....."
    Efren: "Ya."

    "Ya" meaning Yes?

    This comes back to the question of which window he looked through, and when.

    I believe Andrian wanted to make the legal point that Carrillo first went to the front door, to establish that he had a lawful purpose in mind: beer and sex with the neighbor.

    If his purpose was lawful, it would be reasonable for him to look into the living room, if possible -- as opposed to sneaking into her yard, and peeking into her bedroom window.
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  38. TopTop #52
    daynurse
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    This is mysogynistic, Dixon. To attribute "rape fantasies" to a female writer is akin to Freud attributing to little girl's thoughts jealosy of boys because of what Freud considered to be a preferable genital configuration. Criminal behavior analyists have been writing for at least 30 years that this type of behavior (stalking, peeping) is part of a pathway to becoming a rapist (assuming Efrin is not already one).

    Rapists in America (probably everywhere) have become serial rapists because of the hidden crisis, so- called by Corey Yung (How to Lie with Rape Statistics - Utah Law Review). Your point of view is disturbing becuase it is part of an ethos that denegrades and degrades women, an ethos that has perpetuated and persisted -- even throughout the Women's Movement.

    It bothers me that you identify with the man in this case when the victim, a woman who experienced trauma that involved fear that she had been, though no fault of her own, in danger of being raped. Men don't sneak into women's homes at 3 am in order to establish an equal relationship. It bothers me that Efrin thought she would welcome his presence so much that she'd have sex with him. This is how at leasty 60 percent of rapists (FBI's National Crime Victim's Survey) think when they begin what they consider to be seduction but turns out to be an acquaintance rape.

    Up to 85% of women are not reporting rape, only 40 percent of reported rapes in Sonoma are solved by the police, oly 25 percent in Marin. Women are still being treated like criminals themselves by both men and women police investigators because of the false, repeat false meme that only a "real rape" happens 1. by a stranger, 2. outside and 3. with a weapon.

    Please, Dixon, try to look at this from the victim's perspective ... at least for the sake of discussion, if not for the sake of genuine human compassion.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    Granted, it was wrong for Carrillo to intrude upon this woman, but muddying the waters with your rape fantasies when there is no real reason to believe that Carillo would ever sexually assault anyone is not a constructive contribution to the discussion.
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  40. TopTop #53
    dzerach's Avatar
    dzerach
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    The reasonable expectation of privacy in one's home and in public places such as restrooms is unquestioned. Further, is it not against the law for someone to cross the barrier of your home uninvited. (So be careful to whom you open your door -- that is the general idea. Look out the window first.)

    Interesting that the content of peeping, an actual non-controversial (!) crime of sexual predation, worthy of many a civil lawsuit, would require a modicum of stealth. Something "Bigfoot" did not indulge in?! Or? Without the effect of substances, this whole subjective experience he relates seems to ride along the edge of a psychosis.

    What's amusing to me is to think of some who are actually comparing this event and his narration to "a normal peeping" event.

    Such has the objectification of women's bodies as objects and property been the norm. So, yes, this trial seems to be a teachable moment. It's really wonderful in that way. Come to find.

    But just a reminder that he is one of the highest elected officials in Sonoma County. And how that means something? As in, the most immediately fresh and relevant way to focus on what is going on?

    For people who live in the county, how can this trial not be about an elected official, and be witnessed that way by the witnessing public. YES, for Efren and the media (!), the trial is about him personally. He wanted us to hear his story. And so we now have a trial, possible mistrial, on and on and on. Oh, what will become of his political career? Yammer yammer yammer.

    It's all called abuse/misuse of power. Personally, I can't think of this circus without recalling the Dutra Asphalt plant vote and Schollenberger Park. Okay? ETC.

    Or more directly, the problems I personally had -- excuse me, I'm not an elected official but a highly vulnerable peon -- problems with the county in gaining assistance with a clear-cut "case," both legal and otherwise, when a low income senior citizen / landlord abuse case effected my family member. Amid a seeming abundance of services for seniors (vulnerable but not helpless population), there is also an ineffectual bureaucracy interwoven with the fact that all of the social services are maxed out. Sonoma County is a euphemism for waiting list. Meanwhile this enabled deluded soul.
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  41. TopTop #54
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Since it seems that many assume that Carillo would have raped Jane Doe if he'd had a chance, I'm wondering about other women he may have succeeded in raping, since it's a pretty obvious assumption, by now that he's an alcoholic and a sexual predator. I assume and expect that other women will come forward, who haven't been as lucky as Jane Doe. At 33 years old, he's had plenty of time to rape many women, so it will be interesting to see who shows up to tell their tale.

    "Assuming" that Carillo would have raped her is more likely, than "assuming" that he wouldn't have....or is it?
    If I were on trial, I'd be glad that assumptions aren't part of the evidence considered.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peace Voyager: View Post
    And what evidence do you have to support that Efren Carrillo would not engage in any type of sexual assault or misconduct? You just assume it.

    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-27-2014 at 12:56 PM.
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  43. TopTop #55
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    Since it seems that many assume that Carillo would have raped Jane Doe if he'd had a chance, I'm wondering about other women he may have succeeded in raping, since it's a pretty obvious assumption, by now that he's an alcoholic and a sexual predator. I assume and expect that other women will come forward, who haven't been as lucky as Jane Doe. At 33 years old, he's had plenty of time to rape many women, so it will be interesting to see who shows up to tell their tale.

    "Assuming" that Carillo would have raped her is more likely, than "assuming" that he wouldn't have....or is it?
    If I were on trial, I'd be glad that assumptions aren't part of the evidence considered.
    I'm just gonna assume your assumptions are presumptuous, preposterous, a little pompous and best kept private, Shandi.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-28-2014 at 01:40 PM.
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  45. TopTop #56
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peace Voyager: View Post
    And what evidence do you have to support that Efren Carrillo would not engage in any type of sexual assault or misconduct? You just assume it.
    ...
    I will now predict the future: You and Peacetown Jonathan going toe to toe in a race to take Efren's seat on the Board but neither getting enough votes to win. Efren beats you both.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-27-2014 at 12:58 PM.
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  46. TopTop #57
    miss tyfied
    Guest

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    i know of a whom has been dating efren for couple years now. She often attended political parties with him, and they drank alcohol very often together. He promised to help her with some domestic court issues and she believed he was telling the truth.
    Anyhow, i wish she would stand up for herself at this point, to let the courts know what a creep he can be...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-27-2014 at 12:59 PM.
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  47. TopTop #58

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    So many teachable moments, both here on this thread and the subject of the thread.
    I have been reading with interest the opinions, conjectures, accusations, laced with anger, fear, assumptions...

    I'll go in a bit of a different direction with this.

    I wonder if Efren was raised with constant praise to boost his self esteem? If whatever he did got positive feedback? Did he feel he could do no wrong? How was he taught to relate to women? What was he taught about Winning and Power?

    Let's face it, Efren is a very successful, intelligent and knowledgeable guy. It must have been pretty heady stuff to win a seat on the Board, twice, at such a young age with everybody telling him how great he was, calling him a 'Golden Boy', donating money to his campaign, people asking for favors and HE deciding who would get them...

    As Lord Acton once said, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." Do we see some of that idea in this case?

    It seems that running for public office and winning can help one develop a rather huge Ego.
    Power mixed with Ego and fueled with alcohol often causes terrible problems for politicians, as we have seen in the past and in this case as well.

    I wonder if, when this sad chapter in his life is over, Efren will be able to do the internal work necessary to become a better person? He seems to understand that he needs to do it, and I really hope that he makes the commitment and follows through. That part is up to him. Nobody can do it for him. All the words in the world mean nothing without the true desire for and doing the work to change. Perhaps this very public incident is the catalyst he needs to change his life.

    Perhaps we can all use this time to look into ourselves and see what changes we might personally want to make to be better persons?

    I would like to see him succeed in life. I would like to see us ALL succeed in life.

    Peace
    Tom
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  48. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  49. TopTop #59
    GardenGoddess's Avatar
    GardenGoddess
     

    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    tomcat wrote: [/QUOTE] I wonder if, when this sad chapter in his life is over, Efren will be able to do the internal work necessary to become a better person? He seems to understand that he needs to do it, and I really hope that he makes the commitment and follows through. That part is up to him. Nobody can do it for him. All the words in the world mean nothing without the true desire for and doing the work to change. Perhaps this very public incident is the catalyst he needs to change his life.

    Perhaps we can all use this time to look into ourselves and see what changes we might personally want to make to be better persons?

    I would like to see him succeed in life. I would like to see us ALL succeed in life.[/QUOTE]

    I think it is good that the topic of a very visible local incident is evolving into a more general discussion of our values and attitudes as a society.

    I see the discussion as currently involving the human right not to be used as an object, the right to be secure in our person and our belongings, along with the reasonable boundaries society should expect people to honor, and the consequences that should happen when a person abridges the personal freedom of another.

    These are weighty social issues that must be discussed in a non-emotional, logical manner. I truly hope a valuable discourse ensues from this. It is my personal opinion that speculation on what would've or could've happened or what may or may not have been thoughts in a given person's mind should be left out of it.

    Perhaps this discussion could be moved to a more appropriate category and renamed something like: Exploring human rights issues as related to changing ideas about gender in an evolving community.

    (I experienced a peeking incident a few months ago that left me quite rattled; so, my plea for logic and facts, as well as my willingness to discuss personal and societal attitudes around gender and power, are both heartfelt and peaceful in intent.)
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  51. TopTop #60
    Geoff Johnson
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    Re: Efren will have his day in court!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    Since it seems that many assume that Carillo would have raped Jane Doe if he'd had a chance, I'm wondering about other women he may have succeeded in raping, since it's a pretty obvious assumption, by now that he's an alcoholic and a sexual predator.
    Comments at the PD have downplayed his drinking as just self-indulgence. But I'm beginning to think that his admitted alcoholism (since high school, some 15 years) and hubris are closely associated.

    His drinking may actually be self-medication for a bi-polar condition; or simply compensation for an inner understanding that he's been pushed too far, too fast. If there is a significant psychological component to his alcoholism, then he may not just be overly arrogant when drunk, but delusional.

    When this is over, he probably should see a psychiatrist, before any further treatment for alcoholism.
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