Director of Conspiracy Theories

[arthunter]

Off topic I know, but maybe not that off topic ...

Could someone please tell me how to delete the phrase "Director of Conspiracy Theories" from my avatar? I did not place it there and if the other members of this forum see this too, please know that this is an attempt to discredit what I report .... this actually supports what I'm saying about harassing and discrediting activists or anyone trying to report the truth ...

To the person that did this sweet little hacking job I ask,... what are you afraid of? ... my opinions? ... the facts that I share? ... or is it the loss of your secret online job?

[Karen]

That's cold, but why not wear the badge proudly, Arthunter? It's not like reporting evidence of conspiracy makes you a nut case. People try to use that word to defame but why should it? I'm sure conspiracy happens all the time.
Definition:
4. (Law) an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

Could someone please tell me how to delete the phrase "Director of Conspiracy Theories" from my avatar?

[arthunter]

Thanks Karen ... I agree, and many conspiracy theories have been proven to be true ... yet, the term is used purposely to discredit critical thinkers, probably by the very folks involved in the injustice ...

It isn't the term that I object to, it's online tampering of one's personal account ... but then again, it's proof of online infiltration by less then honest elements ... I should be saying thank you ....

That's cold, but why not wear the badge proudly, Arthunter? It's not like reporting evidence of conspiracy makes you a nut case. People try to use that word to defame but why should it? I'm sure conspiracy happens all the time.
Definition:
4. (Law) an atreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

[Barry]

Could someone please tell me how to delete the phrase "Director of Conspiracy Theories" from my avatar? I did not place it there and if the other members of this forum see this too, please know that this is an attempt to discredit what I report .... this actually supports what I'm saying about harassing and discrediting activists or anyone trying to report the truth ...

To the person that did this sweet little hacking job I ask,... what are you afraid of? ... my opinions? ... the facts that I share? ... or is it the loss of your secret online job?

After an extensive investigation using all the highly secret technical tools available to me, I have found the culprit! Me! Seemed rather fitting.

As Karen mentioned, why not embrace it? Please reconsider. If you insist, I'll remove it, or you can suggest an alternative. Supporting members get to pick their own user title. This one was my gift should you choose to accept it.

BTW, while I can't endorse many of your theories, no doubt there are many conspiracies that are real and highly detrimental. I went to Antioch College in Yellow Springs, one of the documented targets of Cointelpro and I witnessed the damage it caused.

[arthunter]

Ha Ha ... well that's a relief ... it was you! ...

Well thanks for the distinction, but since the term is used to discredit people these days, I'd rather that you remove it ... since most of my posts are aimed at protecting our failing constitutional rights, perhaps "Freedom Fighter" would be more appropriate, ... if you feel the need to label me, that is ....

and sincere thanks for the confirmation regarding Cointelpro ... without knowledge of these things, it's difficult to prevent them ... which is why they are usually closely guarded secrets ( leading to the prevalence of conspiracy theories? ) ...

After an extensive investigation using all the highly secret technical tools available to me, I have found the culprit! Me! Seemed rather fitting.

As Karen mentioned, why not embrace it? Please reconsider. If you insist, I'll remove it, or you can suggest an alternative. Supporting members get to pick their own user title. This one was my gift should you choose to accept it.

BTW, while I can't endorse many of your theories, no doubt there are many conspiracies that are real and highly detrimental. I went to Antioch College in Yellow Springs, one of the documented targets of Cointelpro and I witnessed the damage it caused.

[Barry]

I'd rather that you remove it ...

Oh well. Done.

[arthunter]

Since you brought it up, and it does seem to be a discrediting phrase, I thought I would do some research to find out why ....

Here's a great article ... I'll cut and paste just the beginning and provide the link where you will find the history and use of this term ... As I've said before, there's a war on for your mind ... they ( the military industrial complex?) want you dumb and they want to discredit anyone who might enlighten you ...

“Conspiracy Theory”: Foundations of a Weaponized TermSubtle and Deceptive Tactics to Discredit Truth in Media and Research

“Conspiracy theory” is a term that at once strikes fear and anxiety in the hearts of most every public figure, particularly journalists and academics. Since the 1960s the label has become a disciplinary device that has been overwhelmingly effective in defining certain events off limits to inquiry or debate. Especially in the United States raising legitimate questions about dubious official narratives destined to inform public opinion (and thereby public policy) is a major thought crime that must be cauterized from the public psyche at all costs.

Conspiracy theory’s acutely negative connotations may be traced to liberal historian Richard Hofstadter’s well-known fusillades against the “New Right.” Yet it was the Central Intelligence Agency that likely played the greatest role in effectively “weaponizing” the term. In the groundswell of public skepticism toward the Warren Commission’s findings on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the CIA sent a detailed directive to all of its bureaus. Titled “Countering Criticism of the Warren Commission Report,” the dispatch played a definitive role in making the “conspiracy theory” term a weapon to be wielded against almost any individual or group calling the government’s increasingly clandestine programs and activities into question.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/conspiracy-theory-foundations-of-a-weaponized-term/5319708

After an extensive investigation using all the highly secret technical tools available to me, I have found the culprit! Me! Seemed rather fitting.

As Karen mentioned, why not embrace it? Please reconsider. If you insist, I'll remove it, or you can suggest an alternative. Supporting members get to pick their own user title. This one was my gift should you choose to accept it.

BTW, while I can't endorse many of your theories, no doubt there are many conspiracies that are real and highly detrimental. I went to Antioch College in Yellow Springs, one of the documented targets of Cointelpro and I witnessed the damage it caused.

[arthunter]

Podfish, ...

If I have an idea about something like Efren's current mess, I come right out and say that it's an idea ... you can laugh at it, ridicule it, call it a conspiracy theory, I don't care because it's just my thinking based on facts that I'm aware of ...

The 600 Cointelpro victims writing to Efren ... that's pretty big stuff ... the government does NOT want prejudicial targeting information getting out ... because they're not supposed to be doing it ... period... they stand to loose credibility, support and gobs of government money if they are exposed and forced, once again, to shut this program down ... so if Efren knew about this and was about to investigate it, then they would have no choice but to shut him down ... so this is a case of suspicion based on fact ... and I never represented it as anything but suspicion ...

The spin about Efren in San Diego is completely different ... it has been called fact by many people posting here, but it is not fact ... you can read the facts in the PD article ... so this is rumor and I'm just wondering how these rumors got started ....

pretty weak excuse for a lynch mob. But sorry, pot calling kettle black here? "rumor factory" ??? There is a set of posters here who spin unsubstantiated but oh so possible (I'll only parenthetically use "conspiracy" 'cuz it's pejorative) theories about what happened. None of them are on the side calling for, uh, not a lynching, but a resignation of a public official who's called his trustworthiness into question.

[arthunter]

Podfish, you can read my full response in the conspiracy thread ...

The short response is: All that I have written about Efren I've represented as suspicion ... not fact ...

The comments that I read about Efren in San Diego were expressed as fact but they are not fact, ... they are suspicions ...

A bit of a difference there ....

pretty weak excuse for a lynch mob. But sorry, pot calling kettle black here? "rumor factory" ??? There is a set of posters here who spin unsubstantiated but oh so possible (I'll only parenthetically use "conspiracy" 'cuz it's pejorative) theories about what happened. None of them are on the side calling for, uh, not a lynching, but a resignation of a public official who's called his trustworthiness into question.

[arthunter]

Good question, Dian ...

When I began to be harassed, you remember, you were there, I started to do some research. I found thousands of victims across the country who were going through the exact same thing ... there were support groups, websites, videos, it was almost overwhelming, and the harassment protocol was almost identical in every case. These people educated me and I realized that we were dealing with something big and well funded. There's a realization going on now that this is a continuation of the cointelpro program because it fits with all of the known protocols ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

At the beginning of this nightmare, when I had very little information, I turned to Efren for help. Susan was most kind and I kept in touch with that office as things progressed.

Recently, I felt that I knew enough to put together a petition in an attempt to save myself and others from this abuse. It was immediately signed by 180 victims in 2 days. Here it is:

https://www.change.org/petitions/attorney-general-kamala-d-harris-investigate-and-prosecute-gang-stalking-in-california-2

There are now almost 600 signatures, mostly from other victims.

When people sign a change.org petition, a letter, which the creator writes, is sent to designated people. The creator of the petition gets to decide where the letters are sent to. Efren's office was designated to receive this letter. So every time one of these 600 victims signed my petition, a letter was sent to Efren, in their name, asking for help.

I do hope that this explains things ...

arthunter, please tell me/us your source for your statement that "600 victims of Cointelpro targeting recently wrote to him..." - That would be an astounding number of constituent contacts on one issue so why would these folks be writing to Carrillo about this? (Cannot find an emoticon for "shakes head in wonder")

[arthunter]

An interesting link, since we're looking at conspiracy theories:

16 Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True
https://thedailybleep.blogspot.com/2...urned-out.html

[sharingwisdom]

And to support you in this:
https://therebel.org/resistance/6660...ile?hitcount=0

Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events.

In the new book, 'Conspiracy Theory in America' by political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith… explains why those who doubt official explanations of high crimes are eager to discuss historical context. He points out that a very large number of conspiracy claims have turned out to be true, and that there appear to be strong relationships between many as-yet-unsolved “state crimes against democracy.”

University of Buffalo professor Steven Hoffman adds that anti-conspiracy people are typically prey to strong “confirmation bias” - that is, they seek out information that confirms their pre-existing beliefs, while using irrational mechanisms (such as the “conspiracy theory” label) to avoid conflicting information.

The extreme irrationality of those who attack “conspiracy theories” has been ably exposed by Communications professors Ginna Husting and Martin Orr of Boise State University. In a 2007 peer-reviewed article entitled “Dangerous Machinery: ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ as a Transpersonal Strategy of Exclusion,” they wrote:

“If I call you a conspiracy theorist, it matters little whether you have actually claimed that a conspiracy exists or whether you have simply raised an issue that I would rather avoid… By labeling you, I strategically exclude you from the sphere where public speech, debate, and conflict occur."

Since you brought it up, and it does seem to be a discrediting phrase, I thought I would do some research to find out why ....

[arthunter]

Thank you, sharing wisdom ...

labeling is often done in our society in an attempt to limit people, silence them, put them in a little box, ... "oh, he's just a ........" ..... when in reality, all of us have limitless capabilities and we grow and change every day ....

I HATE any kind of labeling or prejudice!!!!

Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events.

[podfish]

An interesting link, since we're looking at conspiracy theories:

16 Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True
https://thedailybleep.blogspot.com/2...urned-out.html

Contrary to the impression I might give, I do enjoy conspiracy theories and I don't dismiss them out-of-hand. But this site? Really? The 16 'conspiracy theories' are pretty much 16 fairly banal and obvious facts. And the sidebar doesn't help build credibility either:

Man in India who claims that he has Not Eaten Or Drunk Any Liquid in 70 Years Examined by Scientists
Doctors and experts are baffled by an Indian man who claims not to have eaten or drunk anything for 70 years – but is still in perfect h...

Scientific Community Puzzled After Meditating "Buddha Boy" Goes Without Food Or Water For Ten Months


=====
Here's their 'conspiracy' list. Most could be headline items in the "News of the Obvious" section in any paper. See if you think they rise to the level of a surprising revelation about hidden forces at work:

1. “They Put Cancer Viruses Into Our Vaccines”. Well, not in the sense that it was intentional. Who's surprised that big business has problem with product purity?? And the phrase 'cancer virus' is kinda misleading, but it's the kind of term misuse you're going to get in the media.
2. “ATM Machines Will Someday Use Facial Recognition Technology” no kidding? who woulda thought?
3. “The U.S. Government And Monsanto Are Teaming Up Against Opponents Of Genetically-Modified Food”
4. “Someday Scientists Will Be Using Millions Of Genetically-Modified Animals In Scientific Experiments” Someday is today. Despite some peoples' vision of it as something new and exotic, GM is a standard engineering technique that's been around about as long as semiconductors have.
5. “Scientists All Over The World Are Creating Extremely Bizarre Human-Animal Hybrids” No, not chimeras, if by that you mean people with antlers (Philip Jose Farmer anyone?). Did you know that you can make trees that produce two kinds of fruit by grafting? Doesn't that word sound like some exotic German biological manipulation?
6. “Obama Is Making Government Employees Spy On One Another” I just finished taking a company-mandated course that explains we're required us to report conversations that we overhear that refer to insider trading. Everyone hates a snitch, though.
7. “Pro Wrestling Is Fake” DOH. Until I got to this item, I took the author at face value. Now I know he's just pulling our leg and no more buys into these as conspiracies than I did. He should have saved this for item 16 and made me go on clipping & commenting.

Never mind! back to our regular daily tasks....

[arthunter]

Interesting observation, podfish ...

Yes, conspiracy theories which are now proven are obvious because we now know that they are true ... at a former time that was not the case ... hence the description as "theories" ... you get that, don't you?

Regarding the story about the Indian man, .... actually people have been studying him for some time ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahlad_Jani

and what the story actually reports is that he has baffled scientists and he is still under investigation ... is it true? I find it hard to believe, and I'm interested to see what happens. Thus far, no one has observed him eating or drinking ...

Regarding Buddha Boy, he was the subject of a Discovery Channel documentary ... look it up, you might enjoy it ....

Contrary to the impression I might give, I do enjoy conspiracy theories and I don't dismiss them out-of-hand. But this site? Really?

[Karen]

Here's two that we all know are real. These conspiracies take the form of character assassination as we may or may not be seeing with Carrillo.

...Character assassins that form groups, like the short lived Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group, can create controversy that negatively impacts the political ambitions of public figures. While Senator Kerry experienced being targeted by character assassins for a brief period of time, the current United States President: Barack Obama, has been targeted by character assassins for years. President Obama has been accused of having attended an anti-western radical Islamic school, pretending to be a Christian while practicing a Muslim religion, being a socialist and having been nominated and elected as a U.S president without being a native born citizen of the United States. The false allegation consisting of the claim that Obama was not born in the United States distracted many American citizens from focusing on the various policies and initiatives President Obama sought to implement. Prominent and conservative individuals, such as business magnate Donald John Trump Sr., garnered media attention from major television networks as he sought to discredit Obama by portraying him as being a fraud and swindler, when he repeatedly accused the President of not having been born in the Unites States.

To prevent a political uprising and demands from mass numbers of American citizens for Obama to be ousted as President, Obama released his birth certificate for public viewing on the white house.gov web-site. During a press conference Obama acknowledged that the false birth certificate allegation against him was having a negative impact on his ability to lead our country and American citizen’s ability to measure his effectiveness as a commander and chief of the United States when he said:

Now, normally I would not comment on something like this, because obviously there's a lot of stuff swirling in the press on at any given day and I've got other things to do. But two weeks ago, when the Republican House had put forward a budget that will have huge consequences potentially to the country, and when I gave a speech about my budget and how I felt that we needed to invest in education and infrastructure and making sure that we had a strong safety net for our seniors even as we were closing the deficit, during that entire week the dominant news story wasn't about these huge, monumental choices that we're going to have to make as a nation. It was about my birth certificate. And that was true on most of the news outlets that were represented here.

Indeed the actions of individuals and groups of character assassins can impact public figures negatively. These very public and aggressive tactics can effect the outcome of an individual’s political campaign or impact the effectiveness of a politicians ability to achieve specific policy goals.
Although the character assassins who targeted Senator Kerry and President Obama were unsuccessful in their attempts to completely destroy the public image of their victims, they were successful in distracting masses of people and using media networks to deliver negative press attention to their selected targets.
Historically character assassins have destroyed the private and public lives of public figures through making false allegations and claims about them. Therefore our society must resist giving our time and attention to luring false rumors and claims of character assassins. If we continue to give our time and attention to the rumors and exaggerated claims of character assassins then someone's dad's, mother's, brother's or sister's entire career will be damaged beyond repair.

https://www.overcomebullying.org/cha...assassins.html

[podfish]

Yes, conspiracy theories which are now proven are obvious because we now know that they are true


Regarding Buddha Boy, he was the subject of a Discovery Channel documentary ... look it up, you might enjoy it ....

oh yeah, them.
"The program, Megalodon: The Monster Shark Lives, opened Discovery’s annual Shark Week this weekend. With an estimated 4.8 million viewers, it had the largest audience of any show in the 26 years that Discovery has made Shark Week a part of its summer programming.

Yet it drew a heated response online from viewers who said airing a “mockumentary” that talks seriously about the existence of a creature known only from its fossils compromises the network’s reputation."

anyway, it's not just hindsight that makes what was once a conspiracy theory seem to be a commonplace. These ideas never should have seemed controversial. Certainly the ones listed in the article mentioned earlier are all unexceptional events or observations, readily apparent to anyone with even passing knowledge of the actors or technologies involved. The essence of a conspiracy theory is that it purports to reveal behind-the-scenes forces that shape events, that these events wouldn't naturally happen and that the existence of the people and activities shaping these events is being covered up.
When those things are true, it suggests we should shed light on what's hidden to prevent outcomes that are only in the interest of a few. But when it's not really that kind of conspiracy, when there are other reasons events are being shaped the way they are, completely different tactics are called for. When much larger and amorphous forces are shaping the rise of the surveillance state, for example, it won't help to blame Obama for creating it. That's the Tea Party's main failure - they are very visibly casting around for individuals to blame for the end of the white patriarchal government that they think shaped the world they imagine used to exist. And they focus their attention on removing their targets from power as if that will restore their world.
Seeing conspiracies behind chemtrails, Efrem's troubles or the WWF's wrestling results distracts people from seeing the deeper causes. For some reason the aphorism crossed my mind this morning that "never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity". A variant of that principle applies to damn near every conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

[arthunter]

Podfish, you are entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree ...

Conspiracy theories, when true, are the product of a deliberate attempt to obstruct truth, cloud the issue with false allegations or distraction, etc.....( see Karen's post ) ... Many of the conspiracy theories listed, though obvious now, fit this criteria ...

Here's another listing of conspiracy theories which might help ...

https://www.infowars.com/33-conspira...n-should-know/

oh yeah, them.
"The program, Megalodon: The Monster Shark Lives, opened Discovery’s annual Shark Week this weekend.

[podfish]

Here's another listing of conspiracy theories which might help ...

https://www.infowars.com/33-conspira...n-should-know/

that's a far more serious and better list of real conspiracies. Good link. It's even an example of the fact you can't dismiss ideas by association; just 'cuz it's on Alex Jone's site doesn't mean it's not well reasoned.

(later thought though:) That doesn't mean I accept all of his stuff. Some of it's historically established, not all of it.

[arthunter]

Podfish,

With all due respect, you seem to want to discredit everything ... the first listing of conspiracy theories that I posted, the sidebar stories on the site, now Alex Jones, and even the Discovery Channel is under fire .....

Can I ask what makes you such an expert about these matters?

that's a far more serious and better list of real conspiracies. Good link. It's even an example of the fact you can't dismiss ideas by association; just 'cuz it's on Alex Jone's site doesn't mean it's not well reasoned.

(later thought though:) That doesn't mean I accept all of his stuff. Some of it's historically established, not all of it.

[podfish]

Podfish,With all due respect, you seem to want to discredit everything ... the first listing of conspiracy theories that I posted, the sidebar stories on the site, now Alex Jones, and even the Discovery Channel is under fire .....

Can I ask what makes you such an expert about these matters?

even an amateur can discredit this stuff... and I don't make a claim at having earned much due respect either. But "even the Discovery Channel"?? come on, who deserves it more! they're not remotely authoritative; they're totally pop-sci at best. Which is fine as long as you have outside knowledge about things you see there.

I guess I don't see this as harmless entertainment, so I rise to the bait when conspiracy-oriented thinking is encouraged. One reason I posted complimenting the last article, despite my reservations about many on the guy's list, is to acknowledge the real existence of conspiracies. Most of the ones he wrote about met the definition - they were hidden projects by a small set of individuals or organizations. Stuff like that does happen.

But it's the last thing to suspect in many cases. We used to have several posters (Dixon?? where the hell are you?) who wrote about critical thinking. Understanding reality is hard, getting enough information to know what's happening is hard, avoiding bringing one's own biases to one's analysis is impossible, so it's especially important to pay attention to red flags surrounding certain claims. Being endorsed by Alex Jones is a huge red flag, for example. The principle of Occam's Razor is relevant, as is Einstein's quote "make it as simple as possible, but no simpler". I suppose it's simpler to suppose a single intelligent agent is behind everything, so maybe that refutes my own point, but I think it's simpler to assume that like an ant colony, results emerge from complex interaction of simple behaviors and motivations.

Didn't this all start from Efrem's adventures? so for example, positing conspiracies that were there to bring him down, and using that to counter claims that he should resign because of his behavior, is a non-harmless consequence. I suppose debating his future on a non-binding forum should count as idle entertainment, again refuting my own point - but anyway, that's why I keep getting sucked in and responding.

[arthunter]

I'm sorry, ... you talk about critical thinking and then you throw out these vague statements without anything behind them backing them up ...

"even an amateur can discredit this stuff"
"pop-sci at best"
"Alex Jones is a huge red flag"

These are unexplained, unsubstantiated statements and without some hard, cold fact to back them up, I take them as your opinion only ...

even an amateur can discredit this stuff... .

[Dixon]

Sharingwisdom, I read the article you linked to, and, even though I'm very sympathetic to some conspiracy theories, including some about 9/11, the article smelled funny to me. For instance, the author, one Kevin Barrett, was making statements about the experimental subjects' sanity that were not justified by his own synopsis of the research. Fortunately, I found an article by one of the actual researchers who published that study. He lambastes Barrett for grossly distorting his research findings. In other words, the article you linked to is balderdash. Sharingwisdom, I'd suggest that you either vet your sources more carefully or consider changing your screen name to Sharingbullshit. Here's the article in which the actual researcher sets the record straight:
https://conspiracypsych.com/2013/07/...-douglas-2013/

And to support you in this:
https://therebel.org/resistance/6660...ile?hitcount=0

Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events.

In the new book, 'Conspiracy Theory in America' by political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith… explains why those who doubt official explanations of high crimes are eager to discuss historical context. He points out that a very large number of conspiracy claims have turned out to be true, and that there appear to be strong relationships between many as-yet-unsolved “state crimes against democracy.”

University of Buffalo professor Steven Hoffman adds that anti-conspiracy people are typically prey to strong “confirmation bias” - that is, they seek out information that confirms their pre-existing beliefs, while using irrational mechanisms (such as the “conspiracy theory” label) to avoid conflicting information.

The extreme irrationality of those who attack “conspiracy theories” has been ably exposed by Communications professors Ginna Husting and Martin Orr of Boise State University. In a 2007 peer-reviewed article entitled “Dangerous Machinery: ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ as a Transpersonal Strategy of Exclusion,” they wrote:

“If I call you a conspiracy theorist, it matters little whether you have actually claimed that a conspiracy exists or whether you have simply raised an issue that I would rather avoid… By labeling you, I strategically exclude you from the sphere where public speech, debate, and conflict occur."

[Dixon]

We used to have several posters (Dixon?? where the hell are you?) who wrote about critical thinking.

Nice of you to think of me, Podster. Sorry I haven't been around much lately; I've fallen behind on my "monthly" columns. I just submitted the new one to Barry the other day, and he says he'll get around to publishing it in a couple days or so. One of these months, I'll write a column on critical thinking about conspiracy claims, but it'll be awhile before I get to that topic.

For now I'll just say this: FWIW, I endorse much of what you say about conspiracy theories in general. Many turn out to be true, while probably most are false. As with so many things, it's easy to err on either side (leaning toward too many false positives or too many false negatives) and really hard to walk the narrow path of the happy medium. I've been distressed to see most of my fellow skeptics adopt the simplistic notion that anything you can label "conspiracy theory" is automatically wrong; that's an example of the nominal fallacy. But it's quite impossible to thoroughly research both sides of the zillions of conspiracy theories out there. I have to give myself permission to say "Gee, I just don't know" about lots of things.

Re: the specific claim that Efren Carrillo was brought down by a conspiracy set-up: I doubt it, for two reasons. 1. He's not progressive enough to be a likely target for such nastiness. 2. If anyone wanted to take him out, getting him really drunk (and/or high on other drugs) and then hoping he'd do something sufficiently scandalous and get caught at it seems like a very dicey and cost-ineffective plan.

[arthunter]

This has turned into an interesting thread ... thank you for initiating it Barry ...

As Director of Conspiracy Theories, ... ... I'd like the offer this excellent video which intelligently dives into the subject ....

https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch...piracy_theory/

Nice of you to think of me, Podster. Sorry I haven't been around much lately; I've fallen behind on my "monthly" columns. I just submitted the new one to Barry the other day, and he says he'll get around to publishing it in a couple days or so. One of these months, I'll write a column on critical thinking about conspiracy claims, but it'll be awhile before I get to that topic.

For now I'll just say this: FWIW, I endorse much of what you say about conspiracy theories in general. Many turn out to be true, while probably most are false. As with so many things, it's easy to err on either side (leaning toward too many false positives or too many false negatives) and really hard to walk the narrow path of the happy medium. I've been distressed to see most of my fellow skeptics adopt the simplistic notion that anything you can label "conspiracy theory" is automatically wrong; that's an example of the nominal fallacy. But it's quite impossible to thoroughly research both sides of the zillions of conspiracy theories out there. I have to give myself permission to say "Gee, I just don't know" about lots of things.

Re: the specific claim that Efren Carrillo was brought down by a conspiracy set-up: I doubt it, for two reasons. 1. He's not progressive enough to be a likely target for such nastiness. 2. If anyone wanted to take him out, getting him really drunk (and/or high on other drugs) and then hoping he'd do something sufficiently scandalous and get caught at it seems like a very dicey and cost-ineffective plan.

[arthunter]

Two more intelligent discussions about conspiracy theories ... it seems to be a hot topic right now ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS_CBmi8vYs

https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch..._dehavensmith/

[meherc]

I'm beginning to believe this stuff too. I was stopped by the cops at least 30 times this last year, and they seemed to know where I was- showed up at a client's house (I don't know how they found it) because I was looking at my GPS a suspiciously long time about a mile away. I was finally arrested for pretty much nothing - 112lb me battering a 200 lb officer when all I did was say please stop hurting me, I am cooperating, I'm leaving. I also didn't know that they can add charges after the original ones without notifying you. And your Miranda rights are waived if you say one thing after they say you have the right to remain silent. I did not know that and asked what would happen if I choseto remain silent. Up to 3 years in jail. How the hell am I supposed to know that? I used to tell my kids if they felt scared or threatened to find a police officer. Now I tell kids to run the other way. I believe it was retribution for speaking up for my son.

When I began to be harassed, you remember, you were there, I started to do some research. I found thousands of victims across the country who were going through the exact same thing ... there were support groups, websites, videos, it was almost overwhelming, and the harassment protocol was almost identical in every case.

[arthunter]

Most of the victims of this protocol are older, outspoken women, ... and yes, police harassment is reported by many of them ...

My uncle was a cop and I grew up respecting police ... I had inside information and I knew about the difficulties of the job ... but I too have been followed and harassed by local police ... they have been to my door several times, once at 2am to accuse me of a crime that I didn't commit ... This is one of the things that Efren's office was helping me with ... shortly after my report to Susan a policeman showed up at my door, stood a foot from me, and interrogated me ... he left when I told him that I knew of other women in Sonoma County going through the same thing ...

And I do know of 5 other women in Sonoma County who have gone through the same thing ... unfortunately, one is dead, one is disabled, and the others are afraid to speak out, afraid that their targeting will get worse ...

I suggest that you continue to speak out publicly about any and all attacks on your privacy or well being. There are support groups and I will share what information I have if you'd like to contact me ...

Here's a general definition of the protocol, but you'll find plenty of information on the internet so you should do your own research using "gang stalking" in your search engine ... just be aware that paid shills are posting ridiculous BS on the internet in attempt to discredit the true victims ... also, be aware that the perpetrators of these crimes are trained to call you "delusional and paranoid" should you report these injustices ... everything that I'm writing has been documented and reported by thousands of people across the country, mostly women ....

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gang%20stalking

When reading this realize that you do not have to experience all of the protocol to be a victim ... and in the meantime turn off the GPS in your car and read about cell phone tracking which also broadcasts your location to those who would do this ...

You have my heartfelt sympathy for the ridiculous harassment that you are going through .... at the beginning of my targeting I was pulled over by one cop after another on the road ... I was made to stand in 100 degree sun for a half hour for a simple traffic ticket ... when I told the cop that I was ill he denied my request to move into the shade ... little did I know that my troubles were just beginning ...

Briefly, you have been put on a list ... your immediate family could be targeted, your income could be attacked, your health could be compromised, you could be slandered in the community, etc. ... this is a take down program that has been linked with Cointelpro and MKUltra ... do the research and good luck ....

I'm beginning to believe this stuff too.

[arthunter]

More about this ....

Vic Livingston is an ex Fox reporter and he's written extensively about this subject. I always thought that his writings were extreme and wondered if he was spreading disinformation. Since then, certain verifiable reports have come out that seem to support his claims. I'll post his story about ex-FBI official Ted Gunderson and then I'll post some back up stories from mainstream media which support his report.

It took me a very long time to believe any of this, so if you're scratching your head in disbelief then I understand that reaction .... I couldn't believe that our government would do this, then I came across massive amounts of info about Cointelpro and realized that there has always been a covert control mechanism in place, ... what's changed is the technology and new, improved methods of harassment and torture ...

https://viclivingston.blogspot.com/2012/06/us-govt-runs-grassroots-gang-stalking.html

https://www.kmir6.com/news/toprotator/179055911.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXe-W2QPOuA

[arthunter]

A good discussion of Cointelpro like tactics and who gets targeted ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_N4i6nU9w&hd=1