The Mormon Mind

[tommy]

With Gov Romney running for President, the nature of the Mormon mind has intrigued me. I'm posting to get feedback and your comments. In press accounts, Gov Romney often appears to be a true believer in positive human qualities, patriotic, yet also simplistic, awkward, wealthy, but tone deaf (out of touch with common people). His recent trip to Europe, and the gaffs over the Olympic preparedness, militaristic comments supporting Israel's right to attack Iran, the cultural superiority of the Israel culture over that of the Palestinians, and his unwillingness to take questions from the press ... raise some red flags of concern about how he could get the US into trouble internationally, just as President Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In my opinoin, some of hIs mind set is the effect of growing up in a close Mormon culture. I'm not Mormon, but I worked closely with Mormons at a computer company for 11 years. They were extremely hard working people, mostly good looking, extremely clean cut, sober (no drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana), always followed the leader, never created problems, never bucked the trend which is not a particularly good quality because it does not enhance self correction. Getting to know a few of them, they told me how their life was centered around the Mormon Church, with activities almost every night of the week, for kids, teenagers, women, men, families, Bible Study, pot lucks, etc. One friend I had was excommunicated from the church, as he challenged some of their beliefs, and he was cut off from his parents, who supported Church doctrine.

In his years at Bain, he made millions for himself and others, often by tightening the purse strings, withdrawing employee benefits, and laying people off - a demonstration of the Mormon mind: as long as I say my prayers, I don't have to be concerned with those lives ruined as a result of my actions.

I think the closeness of the Mormon community, and all the activities where they hang with only other Mormons, starting when they are a little child, can be a really good thing, that is often missing in our culture, Yet it can create a closed mind, that is out of touch with reality. Not all Mormons, as Gov Huntsman seemed to be more open, But that is Gov Romney's problem - he's out of touch. It doesn't usually make a good politician, obviously, and it can create a myopic leader.

Your comments?

[Attic]

He is wearing secret underwear.

With Gov Romney running for President, the nature of the Mormon mind has intrigued me. I'm posting to get feedback and your comments. In press accounts, Gov Romney often appears to be a true believer in positive human qualities, patriotic, yet also simplistic, awkward, wealthy, but tone deaf (out of touch with common people). His recent trip to Europe, and the gaffs over the Olympic preparedness, militaristic comments supporting Israel's right to attack Iran, the cultural superiority of the Israel culture over that of the Palestinians, and his unwillingness to take questions from the press ... raise some red flags of concern about how he could get the US into trouble internationally, just as President Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In my opinoin, some of hIs mind set is the effect of growing up in a close Mormon culture. I'm not Mormon, but I worked closely with Mormons at a computer company for 11 years. They were extremely hard working people, mostly good looking, extremely clean cut, sober (no drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana), always followed the leader, never created problems, never bucked the trend which is not a particularly good quality because it does not enhance self correction. Getting to know a few of them, they told me how their life was centered around the Mormon Church, with activities almost every night of the week, for kids, teenagers, women, men, families, Bible Study, pot lucks, etc. One friend I had was excommunicated from the church, as he challenged some of their beliefs, and he was cut off from his parents, who supported Church doctrine.

In his years at Bain, he made millions for himself and others, often by tightening the purse strings, withdrawing employee benefits, and laying people off - a demonstration of the Mormon mind: as long as I say my prayers, I don't have to be concerned with those lives ruined as a result of my actions.

I think the closeness of the Mormon community, and all the activities where they hang with only other Mormons, starting when they are a little child, can be a really good thing, that is often missing in our culture, Yet it can create a closed mind, that is out of touch with reality. Not all Mormons, as Gov Huntsman seemed to be more open, But that is Gov Romney's problem - he's out of touch. It doesn't usually make a good politician, obviously, and it can create a myopic leader.

Your comments?

[Roland Jacopetti]

Hi, Tommy. My mother's family were Mormons on her mother's side, as were my former inlaws, so I've got a lot of Mormonism in my past. What you say about the Latter Day Saints is quite accurate, but such generalities go out the window, I think, when you're dealing with the 1%. I truly think that any religious belief or moral code Romney may have is largely negated by being a sociopath, as are most of his crowd. I don't believe the 1% and many of their servants have any beliefs or morality at all. Basically, they are empty suits, who have learned how to give the appearance of caring human beings, but are really all about role-playing and expediency and the bottom line. They are extraordinarily powerful; the fact that anyone besides the oligarchs and their frightened compatriots would even consider voting for someone like Romney is a vivid demonstration of that power. Even if you're actually looking at an arrangement of pixels and not a real person, just look into the electronic eyes of Mitt Romney or Jamie Dimond or Lloyd Blankfein or Daryl Issa and ask yourself what you see looking back at you.

With Gov Romney running for President, the nature of the Mormon mind has intrigued me.

[podfish]

.... What you say about the Latter Day Saints is quite accurate, but such generalities go out the window, I think, when you're dealing with the 1%. I truly think that any religious belief or moral code Romney may have is largely negated by being a sociopath, as are most of his crowd. I don't believe the 1% and many of their servants have any beliefs or morality at all......

I enjoy a derogatory stereotype as much as anyone, but I prefer it in the context of humor. I suppose it's beneficial to work at developing stronger and more richly detailed generalizations of large groups of people so as to better understand them. It's been helpful in the past when dealing with our country's diverse population, and it's always helped the old world run the way it does.
It's even more likely to be a valid way to see people if they're members of a group so obviously evil as the now-proverbial 1%. "Most of them", anyway, as you qualified it above. Maybe there are a few outliers who aren't quite as evil but are stinking rich anyway, but the cliche says the exception proves the rule(*).

Though I must say, I've dealt with plenty of people in the unfortunate 1% at the other end who don't strike me as more honorable than Romney and his ilk... but only the bad guys would insensitively treat people in that end of the spectrum as disindividualized stereotypes in an attempt to understand them better!


(*) actually, that's based on an archaic definition of "prove". Like "proving ground"...

[MosaicMaker]

I was raised in a Mormon household. I left the church as a teenager due to the narrow-minded attitudes about hair length and other frivolous things.

I maintained a live and let live attitude towards Mormonism until very recently. Now I see that Mormonism is a dangerous, destructive, and offensive enemy. Steve Benson, who was the grandson of the "living prophet" of the Mormons, has written some very informative content about some of their dirty secrets. This pertains to Mitt Romney and is a very revealing article:
https://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/taxonomy/term/40
https://www.mormonstudies.net/html/stories/benson_steve.html

[MosaicMaker]

He is wearing secret underwear.

Yes, to see a Youtube examination of these "garments", it is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVO...eature=related

["Mad" Miles]

He is wearing secret underwear.

Yes, to see a Youtube examination of these "garments", it is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVO...eature=related

Thanks for the links today MosaicMaker. Although as a student of The Social, I was aware of all of it, except for the personal story of Steve Benson. I've saved the first piece you shared in my Bookmarks under "Cool S&%$" for future sharing.

About the video. I don't know about anyone else, but when I try to open it in YouTube, I get my YouTube "account" page with the videos I've watched and suggestions, but not that video. When I try to play it in the drop down graphic box on Waccobb.net, I get the sound but no image. Are Church guardians with hacking skills at work?

The same time I learned about Temple Garments, back in the late nineties at my job as the chief clerk at the local Red Cross, I also learned the word, Pligs. Not a compliment I know, but I love our language and learning new words!

[MosaicMaker]

Here is the reposted link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVOK42o4E0 -sorry about that. If the link doesn't work, just type "Magic Mormon Underwear" in YouTube's search window. The second one with the man in black pants is the more entertaining one

The unique thing about Steve Benson, is that he had a close personal relationship with the leader of the Mormon church and can tell the inside story from this perspective. He is willing to tell the secrets, because the oath that he took not to reveal them was based on a lie.

Here are some quotes from prominent Mormons, revealing more of the sheep-like mindset expected from their members (I hope this YouTube link works). If the link doesn't work, just type "Recent Conspicuous Quotes From Prominent Mormons" in YouTube's search window.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Nal0f5Nr4

[peacetree]

Well, I had a Godchild in my family convert to mormonism as a young teen, around age 12, probably in fear and reaction to our family history of alcoholism and his fear he might also carry the (in our family, a very dominant gene) gene for alcoholism. He married a birthright mormon ( someone born into a mormon family). In order for his parents to be able to even attend his wedding they had to convert. His mother, a devoted catholic, did for some reason.His father didn't and was excluded from the church and ceremony, as were all other family.

Some years later the family found out that all of our dead family members , had been baptised postumously without anyone else's knowledge and all hell broke loose.I am not sure if any of that has been reversed, but it was pretty damn odd.

That godchild was my first nephew, and I am a lesbian, and have been ( as he well knows ) sober for over 30 years. I had talked to him openly about our family disease when he was young ( age 8) so he would be well aware of the risks he took if he was ever to begin drinking alcohol. I had some minimal contact with him until his marraige, but it has ceased entirely ( on his part) after their first child was born. He also has entirely cut himself off from the rest of our family. Oddly, when he passed the bar he came to SF , (where my wife and I lived at the time) for an orientation to his law firm . He called us up , and was given the grand tour of the city by both me and my wife ( very convenient for him and free food , I guess??) and other than that time and one phone call thanking me for a box of quilts I made their 1st newborn ( his father ,at the time, apparently forced him into the call when he found out I didn't even know if they had gotten the box.), I never heard from him again. That was years ago. He doesn't have any other contact with any family members at all. He has been sucked into the mormon culture and appears to be a stepford husband. I know this doesn't seem like a big deal, but he really had been a very affectionate and loving kid, and very close to both parents. He has just disappeared into that culture and seemed , when I talked to him that last time, to be afraid of further contact from me, as his wife didn't seem to like him to have any contact with his family, and was totally freaked that I was an open lesbian.

When his brother was killed in a motorcycle accident , his mormon group took over the entire service and ( though my other nephew was defintely NOT a mormon) he was buried with a whole mormon church funeral. His dad was nearly excluded entirely from the planning of the funeral and services. It is just hard to imagine or describe what an odd , blank emotional group they appear to be.The idea that someone from that crowd, who seem to have so little empathy and ability to relate to or feel for others outside their system could possibly be elected president is very very frightening. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Peace, Christmas

[tommy]

I was kinda shocked when I read your characterization of the 1% as "evil"..and "bad". That presumes the remaining 99% are "good or holy"? I don't see it that way, I'm writing because I think there are descriptions more true than "evil or bad".

I'd describe them as "opportunistic... smart... unconscious". I think a majority of people on the planet, given the chance, would like to be in the 1% - for the ego gratification, they could have whatever their hearts desired. When real estate was booming, 7 years ago, you didn't hear much about the 1 versus the 99% - everybody and their cousin was getting in on the real estate gravy train.

However there are some evil effects of the wealth of the 1%:
- ability to affect public policy, buy politicians, buy elections
- further destroy and ruin the environment
- pushing the planet beyond the tipping point, global warming, etc
- manipulate the economy to benefit themselves and cost the 99% (eg those Wall Streeters who bet against sub prime mortgages, making themselves wealthy, but causing the real estate market to decline, people losing their equity, some being foreclosed)
- the self perpetuating nature of greed, young people seeing the wealth of the 1% and wanting it

The dynamics of the 1% reveal our own susceptibility to desire and greed, the need for national and international leadership, and the value of groups like the Occupy movement.

I enjoy a derogatory stereotype as much as anyone, but I prefer it in the context of humor. I suppose it's beneficial to work at developing stronger and more richly detailed generalizations of large groups of people so as to better understand them. It's been helpful in the past when dealing with our country's diverse population, and it's always helped the old world run the way it does.
It's even more likely to be a valid way to see people if they're members of a group so obviously evil as the now-proverbial 1%. "Most of them", anyway, as you qualified it above. Maybe there are a few outliers who aren't quite as evil but are stinking rich anyway, but the cliche says the exception proves the rule(*).

Though I must say, I've dealt with plenty of people in the unfortunate 1% at the other end who don't strike me as more honorable than Romney and his ilk... but only the bad guys would insensitively treat people in that end of the spectrum as disindividualized stereotypes in an attempt to understand them better!


(*) actually, that's based on an archaic definition of "prove". Like "proving ground"...

[podfish]

I was kinda shocked when I read your characterization of the 1% as "evil"..and "bad". That presumes the remaining 99% are "good or holy"? I don't see it that way, I'm writing because I think there are descriptions more true than "evil or bad"..

I don't really think that adding really has to be necessary, does it? Or that you have to be that much better a writer than I am to avoid being taken totally literally??


'Course, that's part of the problem of the 1% anyway - they have such a sense of self-importance that they can't see themselves in a non-deferential way. (damn, caught me stereotyping again too!!)