Bin Laden is Dead and We are Celebrating ?

[realfire]

Brainwash Personified


We are excited at the achievement that we did it, we killed him
Are we all asleep, in that we are choosing to be thrilled that someone died

Congratulating the president and the soldiers who found him .
Now Obama will go down as a historic figure who did a monumental thing for his country .
BUT it is all bull shit and all illusion !!!!!

Humans feeling joy at the death of other humans is insanity
War and death is insanity

Capturing him and forcing him to live with what he has done , putting him in a mental hospital, or holding him hostage so we can make changes in terrorism this seems more like intelligence that what we have actually done .

Bin Laden was elated when the towers got hit and we are ecstastic that he is now dead ?
Does anyone see the madness ?

Do we really believe that we achieved something by killing one man ? Bin Laden is not Al Queda , it is a network .
Consciousness does not change that way , and maybe we made a sleeping dog very angry ??

In history , any major movements for humanity were made in peace .
And yet, we are all so cool with an eye for an eye . Is this in alignment with our core values and beliefs about love ?

Side note, I am a New Yorker who lived there my whole life including when 911 happened and so my sensitivity is quite real to this situation.

Violence has a cause and effect ............what will be the effect for the US now ?

When will we think that ANY forms of violence are madness ?
Justifications for why this is a "great day for the US " concerns me .

SO the bully got killed and we became the bully ( even if he was wrong ) .
What is wrong, is the entire mentality of seperatness and war and this act further reinforces it .
This day changes nothing in a positive way .

We think that now 911 has been liberated , the people who died have had justice , and the families who lost people , are now blessed by this act ?
What about the Amish who found love after their children were slaughtered and Obama's speech about how we should embody their ways of compassion ?

Today is yet another disguise for our collective inability to find another way other than killing and death .

How can a jubilation of death be a good thing for humanity and for the consciousness of this planet ?.
What if there is a mother earth , surely she weeps for our behavior and how clearly it reflects our hypocrisy toward oneness .

A person called in on TV with her reaction to this tragic day ( in my opinion) , saying she is so looking fwd to seeing pictures of the lifeless body of Bin Laden ........saying he has so much blood on his hands ......................and deserves the death .

OK great , now we have blood on our hands ......how does the cycle stop ?

I am embarrassed to be part of this country at this time.

Guns , guns, and more guns .
Lets go out tomorrow night and rent an action movie with some violence !

Death equals death equals death equals death equals death equals death equals death

I feel ill and genuinely concerned about the reverberations yet to follow

Betina ( please note these are my feelings and will not respond to anyone who writes angry things )
Beloveds, many years ago, Martin Luther King, Jr. offered these
profound words of Truth and Love:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not
rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate
...for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night
already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love
can do that."

["Mad" Miles]

Well said.

One quibble. The quote you use at the end is only partially by MLK Jr.

Here's the skinny: https://www.theatlantic.com/national...tation/238257/

It's an interesting story about our times.

Peace Out!

[Barry]

During the Passover Seder, Jews remove part of their wine in honor of the suffering that was inflicted on their oppressors, so their joy of redemption is not full.

[David8]

Who is Osama Bin Laden? REALLY?

Shory video - less than 5 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_01h82gCHbY

[Marty M]

Is it legal for our military helicopters to enter another country in the middle of the night, have a shootout with people in a home, kill people, grab a body and bury it at sea?

And how long does it normally take to do a DNA analysis?

Just wondering,
Marty

Who is Osama Bin Laden? REALLY?

Shory video - less than 5 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_01h82gCHbY

[CSummer]

Corbett's take on this seems extremely credible to me. He answers the question (Who is Bin Laden?) quite succinctly: the bogeyman, brought to you by our very own intelligence establishment.
I can well imagine that everything we've ever heard about - or ostensibly from - Bin Laden is propaganda; as realfire wrote: "it is all bull shit and all illusion."
Exactly! I suspect we have little to fear but our own gullibility - and those within the power structure who would terrorize us to keep us in line.

Who is Osama Bin Laden? REALLY?

Shory video - less than 5 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_01h82gCHbY

[Sara S]

This is nice, Barry; I must say my stomach turned a little when I saw the pictures of all those people joyfully celebrating another human's death...

During the Passover Seder, Jews remove part of their wine in honor of the suffering that was inflicted on their oppressors, so their joy of redemption is not full.

[Star Man]

And doesn't ANYONE find it slightly suspicious that he was immediately buried at sea? Which isn't necessarily Islamic tradition? Let's spell it out for the kids at home: P-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a. Wag the dog, Mr. President, wag the dog....

They threw his body into the ocean so there wouldn't be a shrine that muslims could worship.

[theindependenteye]

>>>The administration is probably quite grateful for those out there that are falling for this quaint little tale--- hook, line, and stinker. Hmmm, 10 year anniversary of the World Trade Center incident coming up? Obama's lack of cred because of this whole birth certificate nonsense? His good-job-ratings tanking with the economy and everything else? Interesting timing, interesting timing... I've got a sweet, perty little bridge in Brooklyn that I'll give you a hell of deal on...

Sorry, but could you make clearer what tale we're falling for? Are you saying he wasn't killed, or that the timing was fixed for max effect, or what?

[2Bwacco]

...celebrating...

echoed my thoughts exactly when first i learned folks were gathering in New York at ground_zero ... celebrating? ...

thought it would be wrong to release the photograph of his corpse ... have we ever asked for notorious criminals' photographs to be released? Obama could have a private viewing for ground_zero families, to attend, if they so desired. Or, the photograph could be edited, blocking the wounds...

heard on the news that Pakistanis are starting to blame the United States for O.B.Laden's death (well, rightly so - we did it) and are angry that the United States ventured into their sovereign territory to execute the mission -- that's to be expected! Got me wondering - what would have happened if the U.S. could have accomplished this mission, done everything exactly the same, but NOT TOLD ANYONE OF O.B.Laden's death? interesting scenario...

Public Broadcasting's newsmagazine "FRONTLINE" (former 60 Minutes producer left 60 Min. and went to Frontline) had a really good program about the Afghanistan militias.

This program reported that the DRONE fly-overs are greatly increased from the Bush administration -- Obama's administration has increased the Drone aircraft usage -- perhaps five times augmentation. i didn't know this! surprised me

The Frontline programs are available to view ON LINE, just google Frontline PBS...

[Glia]

Also Saudi Arabia did not want to accept his remains. He had been stripped of his Saudi citizenship and thrown out of the country.

They threw his body into the ocean so there wouldn't be a shrine that muslims could worship.

[geomancer]

>>>The administration is probably quite grateful for those out there that are falling for this quaint little tale--- hook, line, and stinker. Hmmm, 10 year anniversary of the World Trade Center incident coming up? Obama's lack of cred because of this whole birth certificate nonsense? His good-job-ratings tanking with the economy and everything else? Interesting timing, interesting timing... I've got a sweet, perty little bridge in Brooklyn that I'll give you a hell of deal on...

Sorry, but could you make clearer what tale we're falling for? Are you saying he wasn't killed, or that the timing was fixed for max effect, or what?

Deathers! - our newest conspiracy freaks. Has a nice symmetry with the birthers, don't you think?

Oy

[tomcat]

Something had to be done, and I'm glad it was. Osama was continuing to plan and plot. I agree that the celebrating was over the top, rude and unnecessary though.

Tibet's spiritual leader the Dalai Lama suggested that killing of Osama bin Laden by US was justified. He said the Al-Qaeda chief may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness.
But, he said: "Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures. He emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people.
"So his action must be brought to justice... But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern... His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action."


I would suggest that killing Osama quickly and giving him a burial at sea was the most compassionate way the US could have brought him to justice, stopped his plotting, and give us a sense of closure for the September 11 events.


I'm sure our president thought long and hard about this action and there is probably a lot more to the story than we will know.

[Star Man]

I wonder the extent to which human animal instincts are clouding the cognitions of the group in this discussion. Commentators elsewhere have referred to killing bin Laden as a "necessary evil." What exactly made the evil of murder necessary? I call attention to the fact that if our special forces could kill bin Laden, they could have captured him. A few stun grenades or tear gas would have been sufficient. bin Laden was unarmed and unprotected, and we knew it because we'd been surveilling him for months. If captured alive, he could have been tried in the Hague at the International Court. The Nazi war criminals, who killed many more than bin Laden, were tried there, found guilty, and THEN executed.

So, we may ask, what was the reason for killing bin Laden rather than capturing him? What did bin Laden know that would have come out in his defense at the Hague? If the U.S. had no fears about what he might have disclosed, then he should have been captured and brought to trial.

Other commentators have wondered what the U.S. did to create a person like bin Laden. It's instructive to note that the CIA armed and financed bin Laden during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. bin Laden was on the CIA payroll during the Desert Storm war. The U.S. created bin Laden and used him for its hegemonic purposes over many years.

This raises the further question of just exactly how deep did the use of bin Laden reach? This line of inquiry also touches on the point I raise in the first paragraph, which is what motivated the U.S. to kill bin Laden rather than try him in the Hague. We sent Milosovic to the Hague and he killed many more than the 3,000 bin Laden is allegedly responsible for. What did bin Laden know about 9/11 that the U.S. did not want revealed in a trial in the Hague? One does not have to be a conspiracy theorist to question the official version of the events of 9/11. What if bin Laden were to reveal that the hijackers never intended to hit the Twin Towers? What if their goal was simply to hijack the planes, make a statement, and get transportation back to Saudi Arabia, where most of them came from? What if they were the cat's paws in a false flag operation to seize more control of the nation through the PATRIOT Act, the suspension of habeas corpus, and heightened surveillance? Outcomes often reveal intentions, and I note with interest that the events of 9/11 have strengthened the corporatocracy's control of the United States. The events of 9/11 have been used to justify the expansion of the military and the military industry and their seizure of the largest fraction of the GNP. The monetary and power rewards for the military-industrial complex and the corporatocracy it has become would justify the risk of a false flag operation for many in power. The risk of exposure would be minimal, because the corporatocracy controls the media, the press, and the flow of information. The corporatocracy defines truth and reality.

Thoughts like these become more difficult to think when our animal instincts cloud our cognitions, and that is precisely what the powerful count on.

[nofauxblonde]

>>>The administration is probably quite grateful for those out there that are falling for this quaint little tale--- hook, line, and stinker. Hmmm, 10 year anniversary of the World Trade Center incident coming up? Obama's lack of cred because of this whole birth certificate nonsense? His good-job-ratings tanking with the economy and everything else? Interesting timing, interesting timing... I've got a sweet, perty little bridge in Brooklyn that I'll give you a hell of deal on...

Sorry, but could you make clearer what tale we're falling for? Are you saying he wasn't killed, or that the timing was fixed for max effect, or what?

It will take a long time before the details of these events resolve, as evidenced by historical precedent. It is far to soon to develop such paranoid hypotheses. It easy to let legitimate mistrust of government color opinion without evidence. It is one of the things that leads to an apathetic citizenry. Please calm down and pay attention; keep an open mind.

[theindependenteye]

>>>I wonder the extent to which human animal instincts are clouding the cognitions of the group in this discussion. Commentators elsewhere have referred to killing bin Laden as a "necessary evil." What exactly made the evil of murder necessary? I call attention to the fact that if our special forces could kill bin Laden, they could have captured him. ... What did bin Laden know that would have come out in his defense at the Hague? If the U.S. had no fears about what he might have disclosed, then he should have been captured and brought to trial.

The issue of killing is complex to me. In my own mind and voting record, I'm a pacifist and oppose war, the death penalty, all that. On the other hand, if I or my family were being attacked, I'd do whatever I had to do in the moment (assuming I wasn't frozen in terror). For me, non-violence works only insofar as we try to prevent the creation of monsters, but is often impossible as a recipe for what to do with the monsters that have been created.

As to the "necessity" of killing Bin Laden: Yes, possibly, he could have revealed secrets re. the CIA, 9-11, etc. But if so, I would wonder why he wouldn't have gone ahead and revealed them five years ago — he wouldn't have lacked for press coverage. And possibly the whole thing was faked, including confirmation from Al-Quada — and perhaps the moon landing never happened, the Twin Towers are still standing, JFK is in a CIA black site, and they actually killed a bearded Elvis in Pakistan. It's all possible, though unlikely.

My own thought is that the Gov't intended to kill Bin Laden because there was no other practical option. To give him to the jurisdiction of an international court would have produced a tsunami of rage in the American public: no politician supportive of that would have been left standing. Sorry to say, but it's true. To send him to Guantanamo and try to give him a civilian trial: we haven't been able to do that with the prisoners we have there. Either option would have put him on the world stage for many months with unprecedented media coverage — the world's longest-running hit martyrdom. I wish those things weren't true, but I feel they are.

>>>Thoughts like these become more difficult to think when our animal instincts cloud our cognitions, and that is precisely what the powerful count on.

I don't quite follow this. I might also say that even very well-informed conspiracy theories also arise from our "animal instincts" of survival, of trying to avoid being surprised by the possible tiger around the corner. Everything you say is quite possible, and some of it I feel is probably true. But it seems to me that it's inductive reasoning spurred by deep fear and suspicion. I don't think we should flatter ourselves that our own views of the government's dark deeds are necessarily more rational and surgically objective than those of the President's press secretary. Maybe, maybe not.

As to celebrating: I feel a deep grief that a man became a killer, that many people lost their lives, that other men were trained to kill in order to kill him, and that they did. We must do what we can to change that cycle and other similar ones, at each point along the line.

Peace & joy--
Conrad

[BizWrangler]

It will take a long time before the details of these events resolve, as evidenced by historical precedent. It is far to soon to develop such paranoid hypotheses. It easy to let legitimate mistrust of government color opinion without evidence. It is one of the things that leads to an apathetic citizenry. Please calm down and pay attention; keep an open mind.

I personally think had bin Laden been allowed to live and go to trial, his followers would have then gone on to commit more horrendous crimes - captured and kept hostages in order to demand any number of things, including his release. With him gone, those possibilities are not an option. I am certain any hostages would have been treated terribly until such time bin Laden's followers extracted what they wanted. Bin Laden has followers all over the world, however those that did go to the Hague were localized villans. Keeping bin Laden alive would have inspired unprecedented horrific actions by his followers to innocent victims all over the world. The world is a safer place without him alive.

I also don't think keeping him alive would have been seen as compassionate on the part of his followers, but instead yet another sign of weakness. His instant death sends an entirely different message on a number of levels - especially that America did not forget 9/11, and we won't stop hunting down these evil, destructive people until we get them and hold them accountable. I think a quick dispactch was compassionate. Now, he can meet up with his 76 virgins and live a happy afterlife.

[Glia]

Indeed -- the amygdala-level response is what they are counting on and have put a lot of resources into perfecting with framing, creating an enemy/boogeyman, use of imagery (esp. on TV) and the like. Thanks for an interesting and thoughtful post.

... Thoughts like these become more difficult to think when our animal instincts cloud our cognitions, and that is precisely what the powerful count on.

[phloem]

>>>I wonder the extent to which human animal instincts are clouding the cognitions of the group in this discussion.....

Not that I'm cynical at all, but I guess I'd feel a bit more like celebrating if some "freedom fighters" from another nation infiltrated North America and assassinated some of the terrorists doing their bloody murderous work here. I have nothing against America's noble, democratically inclined politicians, corporate executives, or bankers, mind you.

Seriously, the most profoundly corrupting and delusionary form of nationalism in history appears to be that of American exceptionalism, with its concomitant disregard for law and its desecration of human morality. Politicians who parade assassination before a fawning populace that conflates retaliatory, criminal violence with justice are the true cynics, and those who confuse such politically and economically motivated mendacity and hypocrisy with valor and honor have clearly lost touch with the very foundations of any religious faith, or for that matter, the putative foundations of a democratic society. As are drone-bombing, cluster-bombing, depleted-uranium bombing, nuclear bombing, torture, domestic surveillance, so-called "humanitarian" interventions, and myriad other crimes against people, assassination is a tool of thugs. In the nation in which I want to live, thugs go to prison.

[fresno_bob]

On the one hand, I am glad a terrorist leader had met his end. On the other I would have done my best to capture him alive and interrogate him. It is rare to ever capture a leader of a extremist cause, so I believe he would have never been taken alive and it was assumed so by the armed forces.

R.I.P. Osama Bin Laden: Hide & Seek champion of 2001-2011.

I am no flag waver, but i truly believe the world will not miss him.

As for the burial at sea, good touch!

Gandhi once said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" but take into account how many eyes, American and Muslim, he had shut forever.

Edit: It was nice to hear no more of that Royal Wedding garbage, after that. Compared to the Royal wedding, Paul McCartney getting married, and other sentimentalist tripe grabbing the headlines, this news article made my week!

[Star Man]

Not that I'm cynical at all, but I guess I'd feel a bit more like celebrating if some "freedom fighters" from another nation infiltrated North America and assassinated some of the terrorists doing their bloody murderous work here. I have nothing against America's noble, democratically inclined politicians, corporate executives, or bankers, mind you.

Seriously, the most profoundly corrupting and delusionary form of nationalism in history appears to be that of American exceptionalism, with its concomitant disregard for law and its desecration of human morality. Politicians who parade assassination before a fawning populace that conflates retaliatory, criminal violence with justice are the true cynics, and those who confuse such politically and economically motivated mendacity and hypocrisy with valor and honor have clearly lost touch with the very foundations of any religious faith, or for that matter, the putative foundations of a democratic society. As are drone-bombing, cluster-bombing, depleted-uranium bombing, nuclear bombing, torture, domestic surveillance, so-called "humanitarian" interventions, and myriad other crimes against people, assassination is a tool of thugs. In the nation in which I want to live, thugs go to prison.

"Parading assassination before a fawning public" on TV and the Internet reminded me of the spectacles that kings of the past used to engage in. The head of the murdered enemy was cut off, stuck on a pike pole, and displayed in front of the castle. I don't see much difference between the helmet cam videos of the killing of OBL and Obama's appearance on TV and the earlier display of the severed head.

[zenekar]

fresno_bob wrote:
Gandhi once said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" but take into account how many eyes, American and Muslim, he had shut forever.
___

Consider how many eyes the US Empire (since its founding and currently) shut forever in order to gain and maintain dominance over other nations (including the indigenous peoples of the "Americas") for their resources, in order to sustain "our lifestyle" and for the elite to acquire such great wealth. Consider also that by these actions "we" are making enemies around the globe.

[David8]

As I see it, the main problem we have in this matter is that most people believe some or all of the core elements of the "strategic narrative" that has been fed to us:

• Osama Bin Laden is an extremist Muslim terrorist
• He masterminded the attack of 911
• He did this because they hate our prosperity, freedom, and way of life
• He has been on the run since 911, and we have not been able to catch him, no matter how we tried
• We just finally caught and killed him, like we wanted to all along

What if ALL of this is made up LIES? (What if ANY of it is lies...) What if this is the STRATEGIC NARRATIVE (google that term) that we are fed to further the geopolitical and economic interests of a segment of the global power elites?

I suggest you watch and discuss these:

Good Morning America Learns That Osama Bin Laden is CIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_cKHVWVyA0
The Truth About Terrorism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6qtGzRkK6o
Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist (Documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZHenQnu4=1&list=PLA491DB13FBFAC966
Dead Osama Bin Laden HOAX Exposed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66wAi1tUh-I
Osama Bin Laden's Death, Another Mass Psyop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZkNAgCMmmM

[Glia]

Same schtick... different scaled-up media!

"Parading assassination before a fawning public" on TV and the Internet reminded me of the spectacles that kings of the past used to engage in. The head of the murdered enemy was cut off, stuck on a pike pole, and displayed in front of the castle. I don't see much difference between the helmet cam videos of the killing of OBL and Obama's appearance on TV and the earlier display of the severed head.

[Star Man]

As I see it, the main problem with all this is that most people debate the topics that they hope we will debate, shifting the discussion away from the core deceptions. Most people believe some or all of the core elements of the "strategic narrative" that has been fed to us:

• Osama Bin Laden is an extremist Muslim terrorist
• He masterminded the attack of 911
• He did this because they hate our prosperity, freedom, and way of life
• He has been on the run since 911, and we have not been able to catch him, no matter how we tried
• We just finally caught and killed him, like we wanted to all along

What if ALL of this is made up LIES? (What if ANY of it is lies...) What if this is the STRATEGIC NARRATIVE (google that term) that we are fed to further the geopolitical and economic interests of a segment of the global power elites?

I suggest you watch and discuss these:

Good Morning America Learns That Osama Bin Laden is CIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_cKHVWVyA0
The Truth About Terrorism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6qtGzRkK6o
Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist (Documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZHenQnu4=1&list=PLA491DB13FBFAC966
Dead Osama Bin Laden HOAX Exposed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66wAi1tUh-I
Osama Bin Laden's Death, Another Mass Psyop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZkNAgCMmmM

We live in what Rene Debord, the founder of Situationism, called the Society of the Spectacle. The government used psyops during the illegal invasion of Vietnam. Historians would probably be able to trace the campaigns of disinformation across the arc of civilization. The corporatocracy attacks and degrades education in America because an ill-informed, uneducated, dumbed-down citizenry is easier to misdirect. You may not be able to fool all of the people all of the time, but that's not necessary. All that's needed is to fool enough of the people to get elected. That's easier and easier to do, the less well-educated the voters are.

[geomancer]

As I see it, the main problem we have in this matter is that most people believe some or all of the core elements of the "strategic narrative" that has been fed to us:

• Osama Bin Laden is an extremist Muslim terrorist
• He masterminded the attack of 911
• He did this because they hate our prosperity, freedom, and way of life
• He has been on the run since 911, and we have not been able to catch him, no matter how we tried
• We just finally caught and killed him, like we wanted to all along

What if ALL of this is made up LIES? (What if ANY of it is lies...) What if this is the STRATEGIC NARRATIVE (google that term) that we are fed to further the geopolitical and economic interests of a segment of the global power elites?

I suggest you watch and discuss these:

Good Morning America Learns That Osama Bin Laden is CIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_cKHVWVyA0
The Truth About Terrorism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6qtGzRkK6o
Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist (Documentary) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZHenQnu4=1&list=PLA491DB13FBFAC966
Dead Osama Bin Laden HOAX Exposed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66wAi1tUh-I
Osama Bin Laden's Death, Another Mass Psyop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZkNAgCMmmM

Boy, it didn't take long for the deather conspiracy nonsense to start up, now did it? Judging from your YouTube links, you believe that the OBL assassination was all a hoax. Really? Amazing how the Pakistanis are furthering the OBL death narrative and Obama's evil plot against them.

BTW, what are your thoughts on the Moon landing hoax?

[Star Man]

Boy, it didn't take long for the deather conspiracy nonsense to start up, now did it? Judging from your YouTube links, you believe that the OBL assassination was all a hoax. Really? Amazing how the Pakistanis are furthering the OBL death narrative and Obama's evil plot against them.

BTW, what are your thoughts on the Moon landing hoax?

It is unfortunate when snarkiness is substituted for rationality, because it discourages an open-minded examination of issues, especially issues where the truth appears to be hidden. We on the Progressive end of the American political spectrum cannot afford snarkiness, and sadly it is so often used as a weapon by the Conservative factions. America's involvement in the Middle East, Afghanistan, and Pakistan is fraught with duplicity and secrecy. If we follow the money, it is not complicated to unravel the basic plot: Create an enemy in an impoverished country, invade, and use the invasion and the created enemy as a justification for seizing ever more of the Gross National Product, all the while decreasing freedoms here in America. Snarkiness will not serve us well if we are ever to free ourselves from the yoke of corporatocratic exploitation.

[nicofrog]

I am celebrating the fact that I voted for a liar, and another puppet of the aristocracy , Obama is a patsy for the C I A
takeover of America that has held firm since Kennedy, and its completion on nine II . So Obvious is all the mountain of evidences that the entire thing was a set up and a lie, SO many hundreds of witnesses,expert testimonies from engineers and pilots
and it all just falls thud to the ground like a random Arab receiving a radio active bullet. The lie maching grinds on
with all it's ooh la la assumptions. we aall know what caused 911 and Columbine,because million dollar reports were made in triplicate.

Anybody even jokingly agreeing to some connection to trumped up TERRRISHT threats regarding
the C I A bombing of their own headquarters to destroy evidence, the very evidence the people at the meeting in one of the twin towers were planning to completly unveil them with is OBVIOUSLY walking around with their fingers in their ears,and elsewhere
saying "Muslims are evil, we must kill them" as loud as they can because there are no commies or gooks
or Ni***rs or anybody else to pretend is the problem.
The problem is a big sweaty machine that must sell weapons and nukes to pay
for outlandish parties on the private islands and the huge lumps of gold they think they can buy food with when the rapture does not work out as they planned.
Thank you Bettina for speaking up at this atrocity,I'm embarrassed I even bothered to vote for him.

[geomancer]

It is unfortunate when snarkiness is substituted for rationality, because it discourages an open-minded examination of issues, especially issues where the truth appears to be hidden. We on the Progressive end of the American political spectrum cannot afford snarkiness, and sadly it is so often used as a weapon by the Conservative factions. America's involvement in the Middle East, Afghanistan, and Pakistan is fraught with duplicity and secrecy. If we follow the money, it is not complicated to unravel the basic plot: Create an enemy in an impoverished country, invade, and use the invasion and the created enemy as a justification for seizing ever more of the Gross National Product, all the while decreasing freedoms here in America. Snarkiness will not serve us well if we are ever to free ourselves from the yoke of corporatocratic exploitation.

Snark is appropriate when confronted by such absurdity as the budding OBL deather conspiracy. It is not rational and rational discourse is an utter waste of time when dealing with such ridiculous crap. It's like putting lipstick on a pig - does no good and pisses off the pig. Progressives need to lighten up and learn make more fun of the bullshit around us. And that includes "progressive" bullshit like 911 trutherism. Oy. Y'all are so fracking grim that sympathetic people tune you out. And I say that as one who got his start as a ban-the-bomber in 1960. Never met anyone with less of a sense of humor than a Stalinist, and there were a fair number of them in the peace movement in those days. LSD did those asshats in. But I digress.

PS: I'll grant you that the Moon landing remark was a bit of a cheap shot.

[podfish]

.... We on the Progressive end of the American political spectrum cannot afford snarkiness, ....

oh sure We can.