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  1. TopTop #1
    photolite's Avatar
    photolite
     

    Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
    I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
    Merry (anti)Christmas
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  3. TopTop #2
    The Owl
    Guest

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by photolite: View Post
    I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
    I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
    Merry (anti)Christmas
    Just keep on voting for people who vow to cut taxes and the ways government will find to fund itself will become ever more oppressive and draconian.
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  5. TopTop #3
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    i haven't been public about this. it makes me uneasy. i feel like the sebastopol pd is over funded. i know of many tix that are questionable.
    i warn my friends, visitors & new residents here. it is a speed trap town.
    not bad abuse, beating people, etc.
    just a general sense of harrassment.
    in terms of tix they are zealous. my partner rec'd a speeding tix last year that seemed outrageous.
    i have rec'd one tix here in 16 years, cell phone tix that was justified. so i do not have a grudge, nor am i complaining about tix i have rec'd. (i don't agree w. the laws, i was at a stop sign. driving w. my children is so much more dangerous. it's the law & it worked. i rarely talk on my cell phone when driving, & certainly don't here.
    i have never complained publicly but i agree they should be "fighting crime".
    i do feel like the police don't have much to do here.
    this is a speed/tix trap.
    i also try to shop locally, but sometimes i want to "get out of dodge", where i am not aware of the harassment of drivers, teens, & bike riders, i am glad for the heads up on jaywalking.
    i could have rec'd that tix, so i will be extra careful about that as well.
    i'm sure i'm going to offend 1/2 the town, but i don't think our police stance is a healthy one.
    not good for business, tourists, or teens.
    i want police focused on dangerous practices, real speeding, dangerous driving, crime & best crime prevention.
    i have said to friends we ought to loan some officers to richmond, oakland & sf.
    seldom felt like i wanted something to be anonymous, but this posting makes me nervous. feel like i'm putting a target on my back.
    i have spent the day in drama, rescuing abused animals.
    i don't want any more drama, but this certainly struck a chord.
    our criminal justice system needs some major overhaul, i have been clear on that for years.
    i liked sebastopol as a sleepy town, the ticketing frenzy has seemed to have gotten worse.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by photolite: View Post
    I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
    I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
    Merry (anti)Christmas
    Last edited by Icssoma; 12-26-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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  7. TopTop #4
    Cheingrand's Avatar
    Cheingrand
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I've lived here for 22 years and have been pulled over only once (for a burnt-out headlight) and it was a positive encounter. I have no problem with the poIice doing their job, and I would like them to have an even higher traffic enforcement profile. As far as I'm concerned, stopping people who are talking on a cell phone while driving (stopped at a stop sign is still driving) is part of "fighting crime". The recent death of a 2 year-old in a crosswalk, killed by a driver who was using a cell phone, is the inevitable result of drivers who ignore the law. I encourage the Sebastopol Police to increase their vigilance in traffic enforcement because it saves lives, not because of a return to the department of a portion of any fine. Far too many drivers blow through our town speeding, tail-gating, using cell phones and rudely ignoring traffic laws and disregarding common courtesy.

    How can any stretch of road through our town be a "speed trap" when the speed limits are determined by CalTrans safety engineers and there are plenty of regulatory signs with the speed limits clearly displayed? I don't understand how anyone who is stopped and ticketed for speeding can call it a "speed trap" when the speed limit is clearly shown and it's clearly understood by anyone driving that driving above the speed limit is illegal and punishable by a fine. Where's the trap?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    i haven't been public about this. it makes me uneasy. i feel like the sebastopol pd is over funded. i know of many tix that are questionable.
    i warn my friends, visitors & new residents here. it is a speed trap town.
    not bad abuse, beating people, etc.
    just a general sense of harrassment.
    in terms of tix they are zealous. my partner rec'd a speeding tix last year that seemed outrageous.
    i have rec'd one tix here in 16 years, cell phone tix that was justified. so i do not have a grudge, nor am i complaining about tix i have rec'd. (i don't agree w. the laws, i was at a stop sign. driving w. my children is so much more dangerous. it's the law & it worked. i rarely talk on my cell phone when driving, & certainly don't here.
    i have never complained publicly but i agree they should be "fighting crime".
    i do feel like the police don't have much to do here.
    this is a speed/tix trap.
    i also try to shop locally, but sometimes i want to "get out of dodge", where i am not aware of the harassment of drivers, teens, & bike riders, i am glad for the heads up on jaywalking.
    i could have rec'd that tix, so i will be extra careful about that as well.
    i'm sure i'm going to offend 1/2 the town, but i don't think our police stance is a healthy one.
    not good for business, tourists, or teens.
    i want police focused on dangerous practices, real speeding, dangerous driving, crime & best crime prevention.
    i have said to friends we ought to loan some officers to richmond, oakland & sf.
    seldom felt like i wanted something to be anonymous, but this posting makes me nervous. feel like i'm putting a target on my back.
    i have spent the day in drama, rescuing abused animals.
    i don't want any more drama, but this certainly struck a chord.
    our criminal justice system needs some major overhaul, i have been clear on that for years.
    i liked sebastopol as a sleepy town, the ticketing frenzy has seemed to have gotten worse.
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  9. TopTop #5
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I hope they booked her and charger her a big fine for endangering the public. I am concerned that there were only four officers to apprehend this criminal, surely we need more Police to protect us from these kind of crimes. I think they should put up a big sign in block lettering "NO SWEET WOMEN ALLOWED TO J WALK". The City should hire more policemen to enforce these laws, certainly the revenue from the additional tickets and fines would pay for the officers salaries. It's well known that all the Progressives around here only obey the laws they feel like obeying, so it only makes common sense to have a huge Police force.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by photolite: View Post
    I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
    I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
    Merry (anti)Christmas
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  10. TopTop #6
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    great. you have me beat by 6 yrs.
    i said i haven't had problems, i said i have observed problems.
    it seems a bit progressive.
    try to pull out of ragle park & wait til it seems safe.
    when you pull out, being w. the flow of traffic, if an officer is their you will be ticketed for 3 mph over, & they may write it for 4 or 5.
    i agree many people go to fast on bodega, especially 9.11 curve, but that is sherrifs territory.
    when you drive into a town and the speed drops rapidly, w. out warning, that is a "sign" of a speed trap.
    there are places where they could tix, by the library, but too crowded.
    i am glad your experience has been good.
    as i said, personally, mine has, but i give a heads up to all.
    teens outside of safeway.
    having the same interaction as adults w. kids, but being teens.
    teens w. skateboards.
    registration paid, but tag expired one month, this is the town where you will get ticketed.
    thank goodness for progressive ways to pay for force.
    and the schools all have bake sales & car washes & rummage sales for extra curricular activities like art & music.
    i'm grateful someone cares about funding art & music.
    our priorities are different.
    i haven't been in an accident for over 30 years, don't plan to be.
    as i said, when i'm stopped in traffic, especially what can be 15 minutes backed up on bodega heading downtown, can be 3-5 lights, i would never again call someone to say i would be late.
    i have learned.
    killing a 2 year old, hitting anyone, killing anyone is horrible.
    geez louise, i think i live in a different town.

    go get them, car 54 where are you?? (right on the side street). thank the lord.
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  11. TopTop #7
    try2focus33
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    A lot has been covered in this thread. Sebastopol is a strange town. It feels safer now that there's a bright blinking crosswalk on Bodega Hwy at the library that will flash obnoxiously in the dark of the night even though no pedestrian is in it or near it. I have great vision normally but this thing is so bright at night when it flashes that I can't tell which side of the street I am driving on as I approach it. I am forced to slow down just in case there actually is someone in the street. Money well spent. Perhaps. I do not plan to hit anybody with my car, or be hit by a car. Ever.

    While an innocent lady is being ticketed by four police vehicles, 30 feet away an intoxicated or unaware driver is making a right turn onto a one way street going the wrong direction and hopefully not colliding head on with the driver that is about to round the corner next corner. The entire police force is unaware this ever happens. I've witnessed it a handful of times over the course of my 23 or so years in Sebastopol. I'm always holding my breath as they approach the intersection hoping they won't actually cause a potentially bad collision. Fortunately I have not seen or heard of it happening. But at some point the city may have to install bright flashing lights around the "ONE WAY" sign if unaware drivers still don't get it. I don't advocate such a move but it could happen in a town like Sebastopol. I advocate that drivers, pedestrians, and Jay walkers keep their senses peeled and look out for themselves and the safety of others alike.
    I understand and appreciate that the police must do their jobs, including ticketing the Jay walker, but I think one officer can pull that task off just plenty. The other three can search around the corner for my car to ticket for not having a license plate on the front bumper.
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  13. TopTop #8
    rossmen
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    i have lived just outside of sebastopol for 23 years and have had many interactions with the sebastopol pd. one of my most recent ones was a ticket for failure to yield to a pedestrian. i fought this one, it took five court appearances. i attribute my sebastopol pd attention to frugality and family values, i drive old funky cars and raise teenagers.

    my ticket before that was indeed a expired tag, two weeks past and registration paid, smogged. i learned from riding around with the seb pd for four hours one night how little they really have to do. three cars circling the town practicing proactive policing. the 14 sworn officers are augmented with 12 reserve officers, people who have been trained who volunteer, hoping i guess to be hired. chief weaver is very proud of the department and the volunteer augmented resources. he was willing to talk to me after i challenged the city council to consider changing law enforcement strategies to subcontract with the sheriff dept, potentially saving the city 1 million a yr. he was very well prepared for this question. after having my latest ticket dismissed, not guilty, by the traffic court commissioner, chief weaver declined to talk to me, perhaps because the setting was a restorative justice one, where everyone present agrees to listen.

    i feel quite angry and sad about this because i care very deeply about pedestrian and bike safety. i walk and bike a lot and so do many people i love. law enforcement is a limited tool and has understandable self interest. economic segregation facilitated by law enforcement is part of sebastopol civic culture. unquestioning support of the pd will make this more true. we need more crosswalks instead of less like what the city did in front of analy hs. bike trail users need right of way instead of cars when intersecting residential streets and alleys. sebastopol police could get out of cars and ride bikes on the streets, creating the bike presence which will encourage all drivers to slow down and be aware of the more vulnerable people on the road. human powered wheels on the side walk need to be a legal option so that people choosing safety and following the law are not forced to drive to go somewhere.

    thanks for reading, ross
    Last edited by Barry; 12-28-2010 at 01:09 PM.
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  15. TopTop #9
    The Owl
    Guest

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    ...i feel quite angry and sad about this because i care very deeply about pedestrian and bike safety. i walk and bike a lot and so do many people i love. law enforcement is a limited tool and has understandable self interest. economic segregation facilitated by law enforcement is part of sebastopol civic culture. unquestioning support of the pd will make this more true. we need more crosswalks instead of less like what the city did in front of analy hs. bike trail users need right of way instead of cars when intersecting residential streets and alleys. sebastopol police could get out of cars and ride bikes on the streets, creating the bike presence which will encourage all drivers to slow down and be aware of the more vulnerable people on the road. human powered wheels on the side walk need to be a legal option so that people choosing safety and following the law are not forced to drive to go somewhere.

    thanks for reading, ross
    I don't like bicycles on sidewalks, personally, besides it's against the law. I also don't like bicyclists pushing pedestrian crosswalk buttons when by law they should be flowing with the autos obeying traffic laws like stop signs and lights, stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks.
    OK, get this... There should be no on street parking on Main Street and bicycles , skate boards, skates, scooters, etc could then have a safe lane to themselves... of course, the merchants will balk at this but think of it... pedestrians have the sidewalks, human powered motivators are in the curb-most lanes, cars in the middle lanes and if we really get forward thinking, light rail down the middle of highway 12 connecting Sebastopol with Santa Rosa.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-28-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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  17. TopTop #10
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    in this progressive town, we ought to be able to be smarter.
    or as smart.
    i was sickened by the library closures, a great place for families to go, & kids to hang out.
    great decision.
    i assume that was county wide, but fewer police & an open library would better serve this town.
    i like your ideas, but given the skate park, likely to take 5-10 years.
    cutting the police force seems smart here, dumb in berkeley, richmond, sf, etc.
    but police cuts for more bike lanes, fewer library closures, this should be a town "hip" to prevention, if
    anywhere.
    seems that it's not. i would re-write a more cost effective budget. too bad i pay property taxes & sales tax, but can never vote on a city issue. only my mail address is sebastopol, nothing like living 'out of town' to be disenfranchised.
    makes me sad.
    loved to be proven otherwise.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tacitus: View Post
    I was in Germany this spring and summer, living in a suburb near Hamburg. In the town, the sidewalks were wide and divided into two lanes, one for pedestrians and one for bicyclists. The roads were narrow but that wasn't a great problem as the cars are small. When I first arrived, just off the plane, I went downstairs and got on the train. All very intelligent.
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  19. TopTop #11
    Uncle Ratty
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    OK here is mine:
    1) No seat belt (yes guilty), no warning or offer, just a ticket; got out of my car and was told get back in or go to jail! Great way to treat the towns citizens.
    2) Had a birthday party outside of town (out of their jurisdiction) Sebastopol PD laid in wait as each person left the party and pulled them all over. Has nothing better to do I suppose...
    3) A dear friend was walking home from a restaurant the day before July 3rd fireworks (he was in sight of his house). He was arrested and never told what he was charged with, taken to So Co. jail and then prosecuted by the DA.

    We have too many officers in Sebastopol and their charter is out of wack with its citizens. The Chief of Police defends this behavior.
    They work for us, we pay them, it is upside down
    UR
    Last edited by Barry; 12-28-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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  20. TopTop #12
    Cheingrand's Avatar
    Cheingrand
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    This is like the old telephone message game where the message changes as it gets further from the original message. In the original post in this thread, there are four police officers, one cruiser, and one sweet looking woman. The post below now has four police vehicles and an innocent lady being ticketed while a hypothetically dangerous crime is being committed. It's wishful thinking to hope that the police are always present when 'real' crimes occur while wanting the police to ignore or disregard the 'soft' crimes of citizens who know the law but decide it shouldn't apply to them.

    Don't jaywalk, don't ride on the sidewalk, don't speed, don't use a cellphone while driving, don't fail to yield to pedestrians, etc. and you won't have a problem with the police doing their job.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by try2focus33: View Post
    A lot has been covered in this thread. Sebastopol is a strange town. It feels safer now that there's a bright blinking crosswalk on Bodega Hwy at the library that will flash obnoxiously in the dark of the night even though no pedestrian is in it or near it. I have great vision normally but this thing is so bright at night when it flashes that I can't tell which side of the street I am driving on as I approach it. I am forced to slow down just in case there actually is someone in the street. Money well spent. Perhaps. I do not plan to hit anybody with my car, or be hit by a car. Ever.

    While an innocent lady is being ticketed by four police vehicles, 30 feet away an intoxicated or unaware driver is making a right turn onto a one way street going the wrong direction and hopefully not colliding head on with the driver that is about to round the corner next corner. The entire police force is unaware this ever happens. I've witnessed it a handful of times over the course of my 23 or so years in Sebastopol. I'm always holding my breath as they approach the intersection hoping they won't actually cause a potentially bad collision. Fortunately I have not seen or heard of it happening. But at some point the city may have to install bright flashing lights around the "ONE WAY" sign if unaware drivers still don't get it. I don't advocate such a move but it could happen in a town like Sebastopol. I advocate that drivers, pedestrians, and Jay walkers keep their senses peeled and look out for themselves and the safety of others alike.
    I understand and appreciate that the police must do their jobs, including ticketing the Jay walker, but I think one officer can pull that task off just plenty. The other three can search around the corner for my car to ticket for not having a license plate on the front bumper.
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  22. TopTop #13
    Geni Houston's Avatar
    Geni Houston
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Okay here is MINE
    1. click it or ticket - the signs have been up for years and it has been law for longer than I have been alive.
    2. Hard to believe Seb police worked out of their jurisdiction and "laid in wait"
    3. Do NOT believe anyone was arrested and not told their crime


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Uncle Ratty: View Post
    OK here is mine:
    1) No seat belt (yes guilty), no warning or offer, just a ticket; got out of my car and was told get back in or go to jail! Great way to treat the towns citizens.
    2) Had a birthday party outside of town (out of their jurisdiction) Sebastopol PD laid in wait as each person left the party and pulled them all over. Has nothing better to do I suppose...
    3) A dear friend was walking home from a restaurant the day before July 3rd fireworks (he was in sight of his house). He was arrested and never told what he was charged with, taken to So Co. jail and then prosecuted by the DA.

    We have too many officers in Sebastopol and their charter is out of wack with its citizens. The Chief of Police defends this behavior.
    They work for us, we pay them, it is upside down
    UR
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  24. TopTop #14
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    can't find the last thread about soft crimes vs. hard crimes.
    feeling gutsier now that many feel as tho i do, even stronger.
    i do believe the police dept. here is overfunded.
    i do believe there should be someone on foot, or bike.
    if they are looking for easy money i don't believe dope should be smoked openly in public by underage kids, even tho i do think those kids should be able to talk in front of a grocery store the way i might.
    i find when i shop at fircrest, love it, i talk to people shopping. small aisles.
    i don't think seat belts are soft crimes, as we pay for these things.
    i do feel like this is a bit of a police state, & i have ONLY had 1 tix, re cell phone, & the officer was polite, was at stop sign, don't use now.
    i would like a touch of that money to prevention.
    library open during christmas.
    i know things don't work this way, but the thread is out there. it would be great if something happened.
    how 'bout one friendly officer on foot that walks thru the town & improves police relations w. the public. sounds like that would be a good start.
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  26. TopTop #15
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Before continuing to the thread the comment on young people smoking pot reminded me of what I said to my son. I didn't raise him didn't know about him and he came to visit as a 16 year old with his own lifestyle already defined. He really liked the strange gadgets you could smoke pot with and he would go through what would last me 6 months in three days and so I told him how I am with it, that the day is for life the night is for mystery you wreck your dreams getting high in the day time.

    Now on to the thread. I made a comment on the article I'm going to post.

    If we would get the idiot laws off the books, and a fallible cop wouldn't be able to fuck with you just because he/she liked the feeling of power
    and no longer could you get arrested simply for resisting arrest
    then the cops wouldn't be able to create the attitudes that gets them killed when they act like they are more equal than us.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    Police fatalities jump 37 percent in 2010

    Greg Bluestein, Associated Press Tue Dec 28, 4:30 pm ET
    ATLANTA –

    Two officers in a remote Alaska town were ambushed as they chatted on a street. A California officer and deputy were killed by an arson suspect with a high-powered rifle as they tried to serve a warrant. Two other officers doing anti-drug work were gunned down by men along a busy Arkansas highway.

    These so-called cluster killings of more than one officer helped make 2010 a particularly deadly year for law enforcement. Deaths in the line of duty jumped 37 percent to about 160 from 117 the year before, according to numbers as of Tuesday compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit that tracks police deaths.

    There also was a spike in shooting deaths. Fifty-nine federal, state and local officers were killed by gunfire in 2010, a 20 percent jump from last year's figures, when 49 were killed. The total does not include the death of a Georgia State Patrol trooper shot in the neck Monday night in Atlanta as he tried to make a traffic stop.
    And 73 officers died in traffic incidents, a rise from the 51 killed in 2009, according to the data.

    Craig Floyd, director of the Washington-based fund, said the rise in fatalities could be an aftershock of the nation's economic troubles as officers in some communities cope with slashed budgets.

    "We're asking our officers to do more with less. We're asking them to fight conventional crime, and we're asking them to serve on the front lines in the war against terror," he said.

    Last year's toll of 117 officers killed was a 50-year low that encouraged police groups. But this year's total is more the norm than an anomaly: The number of police deaths has topped 160 five times since 2000, including 240 in 2001. The annual toll routinely topped 200 in the 1970s and before that in the 1920s.

    The deaths were spread across more than 30 states and Puerto Rico — with the most killings reported in Texas, California, Illinois, Florida and Georgia. The two law enforcement agencies with the most deaths were the California Highway Patrol and the Chicago Police Department, each with five.
    Ten of the shooting deaths came from five tragedies in which several officers were shot and killed in groups.
    The cluster shootings started in February, when authorities say a Fresno County, Calif. deputy was shot by an arson suspect who had vowed to kill investigators and himself rather than go to prison. The killing led to a daylong gunbattle during which a police officer was also shot and killed. The gunman later killed himself.

    In March, San Juan authorities say two park rangers serving as guards at Puerto Rico's Department of Natural Resources were gunned down by invaders who jumped a fence during an attempted robbery.
    Two West Memphis police officers doing anti-drug work in May were shot to death by two men wielding AK-47s along an Arkansas interstate. The suspects were later killed in a shootout that injured the local sheriff and a deputy at a crowded Walmart parking lot.

    In June, authorities say a man wanted for writing a bad check shot and killed two Tampa, Fla., police officers after he was pulled over at 2:15 a.m. And in August, a man was charged with killing two officers chatting in front of his home in the tiny Alaska village of Hoonah.

    Maria Haberfeld, a professor of police science at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said the rise of community-oriented policing over the last few decades has also had the unintended consequence of lessening the public's respect for officers.

    "It's a cascading effect of the people thinking police are here to serve and protect them on an individual basis"







    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    can't find the last thread about soft crimes vs. hard crimes.
    feeling gutsier now that many feel as tho i do, even stronger.
    i do believe the police dept. here is overfunded.
    i do believe there should be someone on foot, or bike.
    if they are looking for easy money i don't believe dope should be smoked openly in public by underage kids, even tho i do think those kids should be able to talk in front of a grocery store the way i might.
    i find when i shop at fircrest, love it, i talk to people shopping. small aisles.
    i don't think seat belts are soft crimes, as we pay for these things.
    i do feel like this is a bit of a police state, & i have ONLY had 1 tix, re cell phone, & the officer was polite, was at stop sign, don't use now.
    i would like a touch of that money to prevention.
    library open during christmas.
    i know things don't work this way, but the thread is out there. it would be great if something happened.
    how 'bout one friendly officer on foot that walks thru the town & improves police relations w. the public. sounds like that would be a good start.
    Last edited by Thad; 12-29-2010 at 12:30 AM.
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  27. TopTop #16
    rossmen
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    i don't care what you like. i care about the safety of people who choose to transport themselves by environmentally responsible means. the behaviours you mention, which i occasionally do, are motivated by survival. there is a greater law than the vehical code. today riding bikes for errands and transporting kids to school is a form of direct action, you do what is needed to stay safe. yeah, i like to ride with the cars too, its quite a thrill. ross

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens: View Post
    I don't like bicycles on sidewalks, personally, besides it's against the law. I also don't like bicyclists pushing pedestrian crosswalk buttons when by law they should be flowing with the autos obeying traffic laws like stop signs and lights, stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks.
    OK, get this... There should be no on street parking on Main Street and bicycles , skate boards, skates, scooters, etc could then have a safe lane to themselves... of course, the merchants will balk at this but think of it... pedestrians have the sidewalks, human powered motivators are in the curb-most lanes, cars in the middle lanes and if we really get forward thinking, light rail down the middle of highway 12 connecting Sebastopol with Santa Rosa.
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  28. TopTop #17
    rossmen
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    i find it very easy to believe that the sebastopol pd would lay in wait. go ahead and ask, they will probably afirm with pride. this is just the kind of proactive policing they celebrate only happens in sebastopol. the sebastopol police know exactly where the town starts and look for problems coming in. they support the city government reaching out to deal with problems, such as buying the trailer park and campground at the laguna on 12 with open space money and shutting it down. squeezing out the poor for the safety of the good citizens of sebastopol.

    i also have no problem believing that a police officer would not tell someone what they will be charged with when arrested. this is policy. ross

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by genihouston: View Post
    Okay here is MINE
    1. click it or ticket - the signs have been up for years and it has been law for longer than I have been alive.
    2. Hard to believe Seb police worked out of their jurisdiction and "laid in wait"
    3. Do NOT believe anyone was arrested and not told their crime
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  30. TopTop #18
    The Owl
    Guest

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    i don't care what you like. i care about the safety of people who choose to transport themselves by environmentally responsible means. the behaviours you mention, which i occasionally do, are motivated by survival. there is a greater law than the vehical code. today riding bikes for errands and transporting kids to school is a form of direct action, you do what is needed to stay safe. yeah, i like to ride with the cars too, its quite a thrill. ross
    Survival my ass... mostly it's laziness and a disregard for anyone but yourself. I'm imagining that usually it's just trying to take a short cut you couldn't take if you rode where you were supposed to. I feel the lanes I've suggested would go a long way toward actual safety.
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  31. TopTop #19
    Cheingrand's Avatar
    Cheingrand
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Thad: View Post
    If we would get the idiot laws off the books, and a fallible cop wouldn't be able to fuck with you just because he/she liked the feeling of power and no longer could you get arrested simply for resisting arrest then the cops wouldn't be able to create the attitudes that gets them killed when they act like they are more equal than us.
    "
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  32. TopTop #20
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I wonder if the Sebastopol family who called 911 for help with a mentally disturbed child who was then murdered by cop shares your opinon?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand: View Post
    It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.
    Last edited by Thad; 12-30-2010 at 09:00 AM.
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  33. TopTop #21
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    the posting on this has gone wild.
    my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
    a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

    i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

    if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
    a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

    i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
    how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

    i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
    i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

    we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
    to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand: View Post
    It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-29-2010 at 05:50 PM.
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  34. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  35. TopTop #22
    marv3lls's Avatar
    marv3lls
    0xc0de

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I couldn't agree more. Where has the police officer of the 20s and 30s gone? The one you would walk up to and ask directions from? The only answer(s) I see are either that they're all now in their cars or the general police mentality has changed from serving the public to something... different in the past hundred years.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    the posting on this has gone wild.
    my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
    a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

    i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

    if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
    a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

    i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
    how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

    i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
    i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

    we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
    to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.
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  36. TopTop #23
    Suz
    Guest

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    the posting on this has gone wild.
    my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
    a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

    i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

    if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
    a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

    i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
    how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

    i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
    i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

    we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
    to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.
    Your wish to know more about the Sebastopol Police Department seems sincere. I believe that if you inquire at the PD, you will find out that many of the things you wish for are in fact part of their programs and services, and that you will be pleasantly surprised at the answers to some of your questions. The staff is friendly, accessible and knowledgeable, and takes pride in their good community relations.

    Rather than endlessly speculating and wondering, why not just ask someone who knows?! The PD is located at 6850 Laguna Park Way across from the movie theater.
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  37. Gratitude expressed by:

  38. TopTop #24
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    the posting on this has gone wild.
    my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
    a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

    i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

    if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
    a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

    i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
    how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

    i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
    i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

    we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
    to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.
    Thanks for a thoughtful reflection on the police. I agree with the sentiment that cops should primarily enforce the spirit rather than the letter of the law . Plenty of folks just going about their daily lives have their day ruined by an overzealous cop trying to "enforce" the law. When it begins to feel like harassment it becomes a problem. Where I live in west county it is the CHP doing somewhat overzealous traffic enforcement. The sheriff's dept, I'm happy to say, does a great job of actual police work without using the police boot as much as other agencies.

    The other point I want to make is in a time of severe budget cutbacks police agencies are at the vanguard of defending their share of the budget instead of taking cutbacks and reductions. Some cities are even instituting sales tax increases rather than reduce police budgets The police say the high salaries are needed to attract officers, but are they really having a hard time getting good applicants? My niece's husband is a police sergeant who after 25 years on the force is taking classes to get his bachelors degree so he can "have career advancement opportunities". He and I both know all he wants is to jack up his salary so he can retire in 3 or 4 years at 90% pay for the rest of his life. When I ask about this he just laughs, actually laughs. These guys have a really sweet deal at the expense of the public and if you dare question it there's a lot of "big dogs" out there that ask if you're not in favor of public safety? I think we could do with fewer cops, especially the ones who have nothing better to do than enforce traffic laws with a bit more enthusiasm than necessary. It's still a free country, right? Do you feel free?
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  39. TopTop #25
    marv3lls's Avatar
    marv3lls
    0xc0de

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    I agree with you on several points, however the last comment there... free is a hard word to use. If I want to, I can drive to, say, Colorado, and start a new job, a new life there. However, if I sped the entire way there, I would expect to be pulled over. Free implies that I can do ANYTHING I want, and we both know that's not true.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    Thanks for a thoughtful reflection on the police. I agree with the sentiment that cops should primarily enforce the spirit rather than the letter of the law . Plenty of folks just going about their daily lives have their day ruined by an overzealous cop trying to "enforce" the law. When it begins to feel like harassment it becomes a problem. Where I live in west county it is the CHP doing somewhat overzealous traffic enforcement. The sheriff's dept, I'm happy to say, does a great job of actual police work without using the police boot as much as other agencies.

    The other point I want to make is in a time of severe budget cutbacks police agencies are at the vanguard of defending their share of the budget instead of taking cutbacks and reductions. Some cities are even instituting sales tax increases rather than reduce police budgets The police say the high salaries are needed to attract officers, but are they really having a hard time getting good applicants? My niece's husband is a police sergeant who after 25 years on the force is taking classes to get his bachelors degree so he can "have career advancement opportunities". He and I both know all he wants is to jack up his salary so he can retire in 3 or 4 years at 90% pay for the rest of his life. When I ask about this he just laughs, actually laughs. These guys have a really sweet deal at the expense of the public and if you dare question it there's a lot of "big dogs" out there that ask if you're not in favor of public safety? I think we could do with fewer cops, especially the ones who have nothing better to do than enforce traffic laws with a bit more enthusiasm than necessary. It's still a free country, right? Do you feel free?
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  40. TopTop #26
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Suz: View Post
    Your wish to know more about the Sebastopol Police Department seems sincere. I believe that if you inquire at the PD, you will find out that many of the things you wish for are in fact part of their programs and services, and that you will be pleasantly surprised at the answers to some of your questions. The staff is friendly, accessible and knowledgeable, and takes pride in their good community relations.

    Rather than endlessly speculating and wondering, why not just ask someone who knows?! The PD is located at 6850 Laguna Park Way across from the movie theater.
    know where it is, have been there.
    maybe will try again. they weren't that friendly, they were busy talking to each other.
    one person was nice.
    it was awhile ago.
    will try to stop in w. my kids & ask about the foot patrol. haven't seen one, & see the cars regularly. doesn't seem like anyone has seen one.
    if there is a foot patrol presence it's not very visible.
    will take you up on you suggestion at some point.
    would love to hear about the prevention programs.
    tried to talk to the sheriff, we are out of town, about the special needs/mentally ill child who was killed & he was very defensive.
    just tried to back out sideways, as we have a special needs son, & have called the sheriff once in our 16 years here for him. wasn't great. have called about 12 years ago in brookings, oregon. one cop came. he was great.
    have called most for our neighbor who thru rocks at our horses, tried to play chicken with me while i was on horseback & he was in his car (no crime apparently unless he hit me, the old dv argument.)
    worked w. the police in sf, when i was working in domestic violence.
    had some friends on the horse force in the park, used to ride w. them.
    dear friend is one of the best chp's in the state, right here in sonoma county.
    she's very big on seat belt tix, & of course, anything that helps make this a safer county. she has been very informative, very smart.
    doesn't eat donuts on principle, brings her lunch.
    another good friend, dispatch for a local pd, not sebastopol.
    pd in sr is closed on fridays, think it's twice a month. you have to phone to get someone when you are at the station. they are open for emergencies, anything that is not you have to call or wait until monday. state cut back.
    think we might be able to loan an officer there on fridays, (know it doesn't work that way but if it did, i think from sitting there waiting for an officer, who was very nice, they could really use the help.)
    our police needs are different. this town is teeny. the jurisdiction small. you don't have to go far until the sheriff's kick in.
    their was an incident a block away one time when i was living here & every law enforcement vehicle & quasi one was on our road. we had to "go around" to another side of the property & walk in.
    i have never seen anything like that in the city.
    they don't have that ratio of officers to population, or officers to those present, which on most days, exceeds the population, especially "event days", gay pride parade, giants parade, etc.
    i will stop by sometime, when i am out w. my children. would it be good to say you suggested it.
    will report back, so all who have concerns can make the trip.
    perhaps others will beat me to it & also report in.
    will work on maintaining a positive attitude. haven't had a bad experience w. the force here personally, as i earlier stated. my observations, & experiences of friends i trust, and the sheer # and visibility in cars.
    i have seen officers out of their cars, by safeway talking to students.
    try to avoid downtown at that hour, major backup most days from 2:30-4, other times as well.
    citizens & politicians have talked about addressing that but nothing has been done. just gotten worse.
    change isn't easy, but always look to be pleasantly surprised.
    many of my thoughts are based on living in a larger jurisdiction, & knowing what helped there. i have also lived in smaller towns, but population of both double of sebastopol. neither had the police presence. could be money in one town, not the issue in the other.
    this is the only place i have lived where there are so many police visible in cars, or parked on a side street.
    i am looking forward to finding out what programs are in place.
    perhaps someone else might list them here, i think that would be a good public service.
    thanks for the suggestion. will follow up.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-30-2010 at 05:49 PM.
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  41. TopTop #27
    Suz
    Guest

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    Make an appointment with someone, so that they can make time for you. They are often very busy dealing with what they do, and they have to prioritize emergent problems, and crimes and whatnot. I only suggest that you give 'em a chance to educate you about how it all works.
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  42. Gratitude expressed by:

  43. TopTop #28
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    will take longer, behind on my own medical appts, when i catch up w. those, will call.
    thanks for reminding me to not "just stop by". that is what i would have done.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Suz: View Post
    Make an appointment with someone, so that they can make time for you. They are often very busy dealing with what they do, and they have to prioritize emergent problems, and crimes and whatnot. I only suggest that you give 'em a chance to educate you about how it all works.
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  44. Gratitude expressed by:

  45. TopTop #29
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    having a special needs child, & having a partner who is uneasy calling the police, & i am sometimes, but to a lesser degree. i think killed is the right word, murdered is inaccurate and over the top. being a police officer isn't easy. i wouldn't want the job regardless of the great benefits.
    being a police officer in a larger jurisdiction seems scarier, & police friends will vouch for it.
    the horse back detail in the park was coveted for those who had "burnt out" on the streets. i used to think they should rotate through on that detail, but not possible, as those who were there didn't want to leave, it they did it was very early on. additionally the cost of training was not realistic for my suggestion.
    don't know how to post to jbox's thread, it's ok barry, will learn next year!
    but agree w. most of the comments.
    wanted to add that many government jobs, as noted in the pd, as in press democrat, last week, have outrageous retirement benefits.
    i think that most police officers deserve there salary, as do most teachers. in every profession, 1/3 of the people have no business being there.
    but salaries for police & teachers i support.
    the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack.
    i don't believe in the extra school for salary, as most studies for teachers show it is ineffective. would think the same about the police but would be guessing.
    we definitely need to address gov't employees benefits, locally, state wide & nationally.
    this horrible economic environment will help move us there. one of the few good things to come out of these challenging times.
    (there are others i could list, but this post is not about that!!)it is gorgeous out, & time to get off this computer & out w. the horses & volunteers. you all just keep posting. never know when one will strike a nerve!
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Thad: View Post
    I wonder if the Sebastopol family who called 911 for help with a mentally disturbed child who was then murdered by cop shares your opinon?
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  46. TopTop #30
    rossmen
     

    Re: Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

    i don't understand why you would call someone who chooses to ride a bike instead of drive a car lazy. far more often bike riders choose a longer route to avoid busy car streets. bikes don't activate street sensors so if you want to turn left onto 116 you either wait for a car or push the crosswalk button. i also didn't understand that you were serious about your ideas, thought you were being sarcastic.

    it is possible for cars and bikes to share the same streets. visit portland. its all about the culture of driving since cars are confirmed killers and bikes are relatively harmless. the culture of law enforcement is a small part of this. a cop on a bike would make a difference. more bikes on the street would make a bigger difference.

    the sebastopol pd is very concerned about pedestrian safety. the tool they have is the vehicle code. they write more tickets per year than any other city in the county, including santa rosa. and people still get run over.

    the reason i was judged not guilty by the traffic court commissioner was because the citing officer was 1000' ahead of the crosswalk and probably thought my car was the car 50' behind me. we both saw the pedestrian, but at a different place with a completely different arrangement of cars. i think the commissioner believed me because my testimony was more exact and detailed, easy since i was right there and she was 1000' away, at night.

    the problem is believing everything would be ok if others just "rode where you are supposed to." the world is more complicated than that. this kind of thinking stops an officer from actually communicating with the person they pull over, thus wasting lots of time and money. sometimes riding a bike does involve choosing between following the law and personal safety. i guess you choose not to ride. thats a shame because its a great way to get around:)



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens: View Post
    Survival my ass... mostly it's laziness and a disregard for anyone but yourself. I'm imagining that usually it's just trying to take a short cut you couldn't take if you rode where you were supposed to. I feel the lanes I've suggested would go a long way toward actual safety.
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