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  1. TopTop #1
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I can't believe he did it. And his reasoning "I grew up by an asphalt plant and so can you!" That was in the 70's guy, now a days we fight for our communities and our neighbors.

    We live in a democracy? Yeah right.

    No one wants it but industry people and the two supervisors who aren't going for re election. What gives? Why did you guys vote this crazy in? I don't see why he can't see his actions as political suicide. We don't need this plant (who in the world told him that? we have more than enough asphalt plants), and we don't want it next to our park and our schools.

    What is worse is that they have done two straw votes against the thing and Dutra just keeps coming back, until they get their way. If they get one yes vote, they will and we loose. They are also trying to rush the final vote in before Kearns and Kelly leave in January, because there is no way this project would go through once those two are out.

    https://www.petaluma360.com/article/...s-tentative-OK
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  3. TopTop #2
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote elienos wrote: View Post
    I can't believe he did it. And his reasoning "I grew up by an asphalt plant and so can you!" That was in the 70's guy, now a days we fight for our communities and our neighbors.

    ...
    I was also disappointed to see this vote. I plan to get and post Efren's comments from the hearing to help inform our discussion.

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  5. TopTop #3
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    I was also disappointed to see this vote. I plan to get and post Efren's comments from the hearing to help inform our discussion.
    You know, Pro-Dutra folks keep trying to frame this as some NIMBY thing, like we are a bunch of affluent spoiled white babies, which is not true. But it sounded to me like they may have gotten to him. As soon as you think you know the Other, can pigeonhole her, you open the door to fascism. I make about 1/3 of the median income and have a preschooler to raise. I make a lot of sacrifices to live in a nice place. I can't afford to move.

    It makes me so mad that they get to send their employees to the meetings in Santa Rosa on the clock while the rest of us have to work. Make no mistake, Petalumans are against this plant!

    But as soon as I heard that Carrillo endorsed Rabbitt (64% of financial contributions come from Big Oil [much from Valero], asphalt, gravel and Development companies, plus he is just patronizing at least to me) I realized what would probably happen with the vote.
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  7. TopTop #4
    nicofrog's Avatar
    nicofrog
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    It's so classic
    the TAR BABIES what a bizarre addiction
    the only asphalt we need in Sonoma County is to patch up the record breaking potholes
    we can buy that at home depot.

    meanwhile, here in the middle of a record run of "spare the air days"
    these brilliant leaders are saying "bring on the goo" and naturally
    it will all be sold many miles away so trucks coming and going with TONS of tar,and busting up the roads even more,spewing diesel smoke back and forth..
    they will have to RE PAVE the road to the plant,yum yum smell that
    lovely tar.. bitumen that word strikes a note..

    all for the great political banner "JOBS" practically everyone working
    at any "JOBS" especially low paying ones that involve unpleasant atmospheres
    comes from out of town anyway, so goodie more people
    more smog guess they will pay taxes! oh good more money to pay brilliant supervisors
    to drive their gas hogs around to make MORE good decisions .
    I've got an original Idea, lets pave paradise and put up a parking lot
    we can change it to the Deadwood Empire, and the proud and habitual money
    makers can say LOOK we have a park where there is still some nature left!!
    and drive their tar mobiles down the tar roads from under their tar roofs to have a tar fired Barbecue!! Let's get some real smoke going!
    barbecue ! Maybe burn some tires when the check book demands it!
    wow disposable planet
    what a concept..
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  9. TopTop #5
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma


    I supported Rue Furch. The economic interests of Efren Carrillo's donors were the first indication that he was going to shift the position to the right. From Mike Reilly often being the only vote for the environment and other quality of life issues, to a more conventional pro-development vote.

    I have been impressed with his, Efren's, efforts to connect to his whole district, and with some of his stands on the Board of Sup's.

    Last Saturday night I was at the Hootenanny at the Arlene Francis Center (the old New College building) talking to a new acquaintance/friend about Efren. The word from Roseland is that he listens, and will tell you where he stands, no bullshit. He's accessible and honest.

    I've been waiting to see how he would vote on Dutra, cause that would be a litmus test on where he is going to fall on major development issues. This, is a very bad sign. His quote in the PD sounded like, "we had to eat it growing up, so now everybody does!" Not cool.

    The whole, jobs require economic growth, so anything that stands in the way of growth is anti-people, anti-workers, anti-prosperity, etc. is a bogus argument. We rarely unpave the paved. Constant expansion under a loosely regulated capitalist market, look where that's gotten us.

    Selling state buildings for a quick buck. Down the road, because the state will be the renter and not the landlord, it's going to cost much much more in the future, than whatever the sale made for the state. Pure idiocy.

    It's sort of like the Mafia protection racket. If you want to do business in this neighborhood, we're here to keep you safe, at a price. But if you don't play ball and pay up? Bad things are going to happen to you and your property. Just sayin'. Hey, we're doing you a favor!

    And the gravel trucks roar up and down 116, Mirabel and River Road. I must have passed, or had to wait for, fifteen or twenty in my jaunt to "town" for breakfast and groceries at 10:00 to 11:00 a.m.. Man can those suckers pump out the diesel exhaust! And they're so good for our semi-rural two-lanes. More work for the repavers!

    While, now, my stretch of River Road has the new, cheaper aggregate that makes my tires sound twice as loud. And I'm sure the friction causing that sound, will tear them up twice as fast. At least I don't live right next to the main drag. Too bad for those who do...

    Cheaper, faster, dirtier, louder. It's all about prosperity right? We all gotta get paid!

    Wait, I get it. The more the trucks drive around, the quicker the roads are torn up and need repaving, the more asphalt we need, the more the trucks drive around! It's perfect! What a business opportunity!!! Jobs!!! Profit!!! Progress!!!! Prosperity!!!!!

    Wait, who's paying for this racket?

    Efren is a harbinger of the future. And the past. Past is prologue.

    There's always his next election. And this coming one is certain to bring some changes, back to the past, that is. Maybe not so much here in SonomaCo, but round and about the land. A hard right rain is gonna' fall. Then we'll be able to free the invisible hand to do it's magic!

    Keep listening Efren, maybe you'll hear the roar of the wheels on cheap local asphalt. And the roar of the crowd breathing asphalt fumes and particulates. The stuff gives me headache and nausea. Instantly, when it's fresh. Long term health effects! Another business opportunity! The future is a vast expanding horizon of economic opportunity. Garden spot of the world, BABY!!!!

    Another thought about the past. In the past, environmental racism targeted the poor and powerless. And environmental pollution effected everyone, although not equally. Then we figured some things out. Like poisoning the water, land and air, isn't very good for us, or any other forms of life. We changed laws and policies. We built movements to protect the public health and the natural world.

    And none of that happened without those who make money off of resource extraction and exponential economic growth digging in their heels and going kicking and screaming all the way.

    Now, and for decades, because it's political suicide to scoff at environmental issues and public concerns about them, everyone pays lip service to the importance of protecting nature and people. "Sustainable development", "Green Jobs", "Build up, not out".

    It's all good, but the proof is in the pudding. What we do matters, what we say is only prologue, planning for action. Otherwise, it's just blah, blah.

    Next:

    Roblar Quarry. They say those trucks will be using 116 as a primary corridor. I can see the dollars adding up. It's a good day to be an environmental lawyer.

    Massive river bed gravel mining on the Russian River. Hey, it's all private "land." So what if it's also the river bed? We've got rules on how to proceed with minimal impact. It's safe. Promise! The experts have reached consensus!!! (Who pays the experts?)


    The bedrock of our free system: I can do anything I want to whatever I own, to make a profit.

    There's a reason becoming a lawyer didn't have the appeal it had held up to graduating college.

    (It also had the added advantage that when people asked me what I was going to do with a B.A. in Philosophy, saying I was going to Law School, usually got them to quit bugging me.)

    I actually learned a thing or two in those years of free inquiry and experimentation. Like, a system solely derived from the combined results of every individual pursuing their own interests, is not a recipe for the satisfaction of community needs, the needs of the powerless, the needs of nature and the needs of the many.

    Not that such a system has ever existed, or ever will. People aren't that stupid when it comes down to it. They just like to talk that way because simple formulas satisfy simple minds. Plus it helps cover up a lot of things you're not too proud of, when you can't be honest about your real motivations.

    "I've got mine Jack! Screw you!", doesn't go over so well with the public. Unless of course that public has been reading the pap in the tracts written by Ayn Rand as if they were the Bible.

    Sometimes the good of the community is more important than the right to make a buck. Not always. I'm actually a critical admirer of the amazing creative power of the "free" market. But we've also seen what happens when its excesses end up hurting everyone, including gravel truck drivers, private land owners, civil engineering contractors, extractive industry managers and stockholders and their paid public servants. And let's not forget the abused, put upon, overburdened taxpayers. That aggregate may be cheap. But it's not free.

    Short term profit, long term damage. Remember hydraulic gold mining, after the corporations took over the small time claims in the Sierra Nevada to apply capital, industrial organization and modern engineering to the process? Hey, great things were done! Where'd Leland Stanford get his wealth?

    And Obama just lifted the deep sea drilling moratorium. Because we now have "rules in place" that will prevent future blowouts that we can't control for weeks on end. Yeah, right. Tell us another one.

    Greed has always had salesmen, agents, front men, apologists, hucksters, shills. I was giving Efren the benefit of the doubt. Far more than I ever gave President Obama.

    In the court of public opinion, the jury has gone into deliberation, and it's not looking good for the defense.


    Last edited by "Mad" Miles; 10-17-2010 at 12:10 PM.
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  11. TopTop #6
    The Owl
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    When "the people" voted in Efren Carrillo over Rue Furch I asked - "What were they THINKING?" It was clear to me that he was industry's darling. Now we have it for all to see. I'm very disappointed in this. Very disappointed. Well, someone voted in a nuclear plant out at Bodega Head many years ago and "the people" stopped it. Time to show our power... nothing is done until it's done. We can still stop this, don't kid yourselves that it's too late, it never is.
    Last edited by "Mad" Miles; 10-13-2010 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Remove complete quote of previous post
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  13. TopTop #7
    Sabrina's Avatar
    Sabrina
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I went to Efren's Facebook Page and was thinking to "un-like" him there. But I saw someone had posted to his page their distaste for his vote for Dutra. So I added to it. I sound kind of mean, if you read it, but it's true. I always thought he was VERY handsome, but this is the kind of thing that just makes a person ugly. Here's his facebook page if you want to see or ad comments to it: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507548454
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  14. TopTop #8
    Bryan's Avatar
    Bryan
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    First, I don't agree with anyone using insults to make their political message against anyone involved, including elected politicians.

    Next, I personally feel the big issue is the county is rezoning land to allow development.
    Dutra and Best Family are using that process. I don't think the quarry is using rezoning per se. The Indian casino in RP used Congressional action.

    I would like to see that rezoning issue raised more clearly from people. I am not against development. I feel that rezoning outside of the General Plan rezoning process is suspect.
    And it is ONLY tied to very large developments - try rezoning a small RR parcel today to allow a 2nd or 3rd unit. Won't happen and very few could afford the fees involved.

    Special exemptions allows certain landowners to increase the development value of their specific parcels while the 10 year process which is open to everyone equally. And means if you want land to do something, please, find one zoned ALREADY to do what you want. As your neighbors at least are aware something might happen based upon that existing zoning status.

    The general plan allows clear intention to be publically shown. Since the sups have opened this door to modifying the General Plan more WIDELY now with Dutra, they will have a difficult time objecting to more large,rezoning developments going forward. That means all neighborhoods and especially mixed / bordering neighbors like Best Family, will open up more land for more intensive development than under the General Plan.

    We see a two-tiered use of the plan - one for very big money, other (don't bother to ask) for the rest.

    Both projects COULD have been told to wait until the General plan reopens to make the case for rezoning.
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  16. TopTop #9
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma


    I was surprised, a little, by the PD editorial today about the Sup's Dutra vote. I know the editors try to look populist, when it's safe and innocuous, and doesn't offend their developer/financial services base, they're trying to sell papers in a dying industry.

    Very good points Bryan. As for the name calling, I hope you weren't referring to my previous lengthy contribution. Any words I used to describe Efren, or any other politician, were meant to be descriptive, based in facts of their behavior, and not character assassination. If I were to use the invective that comes to mind around these issues and this development, believe me, it would have to posted in the "Censored & NonCensored" category!

    Here's a link to the editorial:

    Dutra II: Public deserved more time to respond before change in course


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  17. TopTop #10
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Bryan, I discussed the very thing you are talking about this on this forum about a year ago. We spent a lot of time and energy and money to come up with our general plan and no sooner was it written, that Dutra decided we can change it for them. The truth is that there are a plethora of good valid reasons people don't want this and it isn't needed, while there are just a couple flimsy reasons to build it.

    And Miles, even the Argus Courier (which is in my opinion worse than PD!) has written an Opinion piece criticizing the plan! Even our city council who never agrees on anything unanimously voted against it. All the city councils in the area are concerned, as they have basically said we have no say about our urban growth boundary, and that is bad precedent.

    When I went to the informational meeting organized by Jared Huffman concerning this plant last year, when they opened up for comments not one person in the almost two hour comment period supported the thing. Dutra has been canvassing the industry for support all year, so they have industry people in there, going to the meetings now (I suspect on the clock). (At the Jaed Meeting all the yes people left at the same time, I guess they had to get back to work) The Argus poll was over 3/4 opposed. Many schools and children have been active in expressing their opposition. If you don't live in Petaluma, you probably don;t realize the overwhelming opposition, but it is here. If Kerns were running for reelection I have no doubt that he would loose over this.
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  19. TopTop #11
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I liked Carrillo and I voted for him, but I don't like what he's doing now; out here near the coast, where the roads are very bad, and the county closed the Annapolis Road Maintenance Yard, he voted for yet another winery/public tasting room, ignoring the fact that this will cause a whole lot more usage/damage to the roads. I haven't taken the time to really examine his entire record, but just this vote and the Dutra one are ominously skewed toward letting money interests make his decisions; that's sure not what I want in my supervisor.





    Quote elienos wrote: View Post
    Bryan, I discussed the very thing you are talking about this on this forum about a year ago. We spent a lot of time and energy and money to come up with our general plan and no sooner was it written, that Dutra decided we can change it for them. The truth is that there are a plethora of good valid reasons people don't want this and it isn't needed, while there are just a couple flimsy reasons to build it.

    And Miles, even the Argus Courier (which is in my opinion worse than PD!) has written an Opinion piece criticizing the plan! Even our city council who never agrees on anything unanimously voted against it. All the city councils in the area are concerned, as they have basically said we have no say about our urban growth boundary, and that is bad precedent.

    When I went to the informational meeting organized by Jared Huffman concerning this plant last year, when they opened up for comments not one person in the almost two hour comment period supported the thing. Dutra has been canvassing the industry for support all year, so they have industry people in there, going to the meetings now (I suspect on the clock). (At the Jaed Meeting all the yes people left at the same time, I guess they had to get back to work) The Argus poll was over 3/4 opposed. Many schools and children have been active in expressing their opposition. If you don't live in Petaluma, you probably don;t realize the overwhelming opposition, but it is here. If Kerns were running for reelection I have no doubt that he would loose over this.
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  21. TopTop #12
    Thomas Morabito
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Shame on Efren. Good thing for us that he didn't grow up next to a nuclear power plant.
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  23. TopTop #13
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Here are Efren's comments at the recent Dutra hearing. Basically what he is saying, IMO, is that we use asphalt, it needs to come from somewhere, and the project isn't that bad either esthetically or environmentally.

    I'm not that familiar with the site, so I can't really say. But there do seem to be very credible arguments why this site is not ideal. However, you have to keep in mind that an asphalt plant has particular site requirements, and that any other site would probably raise similar (but different) concerns.

    The question comes down to: Are we going to take responsibility for our creation and use of asphalt? And is there a better place for it that is economically, environmentally and politically viable? And should the government pick the place for a private company to operate?

    Thanks to Efren's staff members, Susan Upchurch and Starlene Boyer, for making this transcript available!

    Barry




    COMMENTS BY SUPERVISOR EFREN CARRILLO

    AT CLOSE OF
    DUTRA HEARING ON OCTOBER 12, 2010


    First of all I want to take the time and the opportunity to thank staff for bringing this project forward. I know this one has not been an easy project, simply on its complexities, on its divisions, on its emotions and on the time and essentially direction that the Board has provided in the past.

    Iím one of two members on this Board that essentially flip-flopped on this project. If you recall correctly, when this project came before the Board in 2009 in February, we approved this project on a 4-1 straw vote. It came back. We sent the project back on a 3-2 vote opposing it. The project came back, it was continued on a 3 vote and then we have now a new project that comes before us, which has the same essence of the project, but, quite frankly, from my perspective, this is a new project. And going down the majority of the issues that I had concerns with from the get-go, going last year to today, I want to specifically point out a few aspects of it.

    And in acknowledging, Supervisor Zane, that you live within a mile radius of Maxwell Court, I actually happened to live within four or five blocks of Maxwell Court when my family moved into their Habitat for Humanity home in 1991, there on Link Lane off of West College. As a matter of fact, my parents still reside in that residence, my sister, my brother just moved on to college, in fact he was two years old when we first moved into that home and seemed to do just okay, graduating eventually and going off to UC Santa Cruz. So, itís somewhat embarrassing to me, having come on this Board last year and not realizing, quite frankly, that that was an asphalt plant until I became a Supervisor. And I would walk to school, going down West College to Santa Rosa Middle School, which is less than a half mile away, you know with CV steam and recognized that it was an industrial commercial site, and it wasnít until I came on this Board and introduced to this Dutra project that I realized that we lived near an asphalt plant.

    So, to the folks that have contacted me via phone calls, letters and emails, I appreciate the time, the energy and the perspective that you bring to this project. I do not appreciate however, the arguments of how I would like it if my family lived near an asphalt plant, because we have lived near an asphalt plant.

    In addressing the issues of aesthetics, to me thatís probably the largest concern, is the aesthetic concern as far as the change that it will bring to that specific area. The mitigations put forward, I believe thereís between 149 to 150 mitigations depending on whether we look at the truck or the conveyor option. Those, to me, do mitigate to some extent the aesthetic changes this project will bring. With any project that comes forward, whether itís a tasting room, a winery, a landfill, there are going to be aesthetic changes that come with these projects. Itís just a matter of fact.

    [The paragraph below was muddy on tape - so this transcript may not be accurate]


    My second biggest issue was the air quality issue. In addressing the health risk assessments and going down through, not just the non-conforming residentials, having it be 5.1 below the 10% threshold, indicating at the maximum acute hazard index appear from 0.97 to 0.69. One of the arguments that was made in the middle of this year, earlier, specifically to this one was that it was too close to the threshold of one. The 0.97 might as well could have been one. Well, this project has a 0.69, it is not .97, it is not 1.

    Specific to the biological resources and wetlands issues, this project before us, looking at it from a conveyer belt aspect, does not, in my perspective, damage the biological resources of the wetlands issues, in fact, it enhances it, in protecting 19 acres of wetlands.

    To the land use issues, I think that this Board can make the determination that the General Plan Amendment, that the project is beneficial to the General Plan Amendment. You know, my biggest dilemma is not so much with this project. You know, we seem not to have a problem, and folks have been commenting about SMART. SMART is a project that I think we all support. SMART is also going to have a walking/bicycle trail that is going to go along the wale, that is going to be accessible for folks that want to walk, that want to bike it. Well, folks, if I recall correctly, thatís going to be a paved trail. So, the paradox there is somewhat interesting for me.

    You know we donít seem to have a problem with paving our roads, with improving our infrastructure, with improving our trail system countywide, with ensuring that weíre filling up potholes, yet, including these projects from a perspective of where this resource comes from, seems to be a problem. Iíve received letters from city councils in Santa Rosa to oppose this project, yet they approved an affordable housing project on West College Avenue, a thousand feet away from Maxwell Court asphalt facility. The hypocrisy quite frankly on that, I donít understand. Having affordable housing near Maxwell Court is okay, but this plant in Petaluma is not okay.

    Receiving letters from the city of Petaluma, from the city of Sebastopol, yet, within the last year, I know thereís been road preservation projects in both of those cities. Petaluma had one. Sebastopol had one. And where did that asphalt come from? I looked and found out it came from Maxwell Court. And, you know, these are tough projects that come before us and the basic context of how we produce the asphalt seems to demonstrate that itís okay to have these facilities, yet, when youíre talking about the resources, they want resources from somewhere else. That, to me, just doesnít make sense. When you look at Todd Road, you have the communities of Moorland Avenue, the communities of Bellevue, the businesses down Santa Rosa Avenue, not to include the adjacent soccer fields down South Moorland field that I and my friends played on.

    Look at Maxwell Court. The neighborhoods are less money, the west end neighborhood, St. Rose neighborhood, Lincoln Elementary School, Jacobís Court, Santa Rose Creek Trail, that many folks and families must use. DeMeo Park, the affordable housing project that was in fact, constructed on an old concrete casting site. The reason I know that was there, I didnít know what the heck it was until a friend of mine told me what it was because he worked there.

    Go across the street, you have Catholic Charities. Right across the street, the Sonoma County Museum, the Santa Rosa mall, all within a one mile radius of this asphalt facility in Santa Rosa. So, you know, to me, ensuring the adequate local resources from that component in a county-wide, in a regional area, seems to me the biggest issue here. Itís not the Dutra asphalt facility, itís how you look at aggregate and resources county-wide. Weíre discussing preservation of local roads, ADA accessible parking lots, walking and bicycle trails, drinking water reservoirs, and fish hatcheries. You know, these are all important infrastructure components that the public demands of us as elected officials to have, to enhance and to improve.

    You know when you look at technology the last two-three decades have seen an increasing improvement in technologies. You know, when Aztec says theyíre going to build a state-of-the-art plant here in Sonoma county, we need to look at infrastructure of these facilities, whether theyíre quarries, whether theyíre asphalt facilities, and using new technologies. I just canít understand the distinction between wanting certain things, demanding certain things, and not understanding where they come from. Whether itís a landfill, whether itís a quarry, or whether itís an asphalt facility.

    The issue here, itís not easy for me being the deciding vote on this project, in that folks have called me, and called me and emailed me and said, ďEfren, we think or we know that there are two members of your Board that support this project and two members that donít. This is completely on you.Ē Well, folks, Iím here to tell you that this project needs, at the very minimum, three votes to be approved. And itís not on just one member, and to my constituents in West County who have felt the impacts of resources, whether itís mining in the Russian River or whether itís having quarries in Forestville, or asphalt facilities that impact the district, Fifth District includes West and Southwest Santa Rosa.

    So, to me, Iím looking at this from a county-wide aspect. This is a good thing for the county, this is a good thing for the region and Iím going to support Supervisor Mike Kernsí recommendation to accept staffís report and approve it on a straw vote.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-17-2010 at 03:49 PM.

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  25. TopTop #14
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Barry, please take some time to read up about the reasons that this is a bad idea. You are talking about why it is okay, without looking into why it isn't okay. Do you think we should change our general plan so Dutra can build a plant in a place no one but Dutra wants. Do you know that the local asphalt plants work far far far under capacity. Do you know how many times people have approached Dutra with alternative sites that haven't even been acknowledged. People do have a right to say what kind of industry should be in their community.

    Here are a couple sites with info about why they oppose it, there are videos of Scientists talking about that really actually the truth is....well...this plant with have negative health effects. My friends 7 year old daughter just finished chemo and beat cancer. She will be able to see the plant from the playground of her school. If you were her father, how would you feel about that? Please chack out the section about pollution and schools. There is info about why another plant isn't needed also. You can get Save Shollenberger's YouTube page through that website which has tons of videos from the hearings and presentations.


    https://momsforcleanair.net/Facts.html
    https://www.saveshollenberger.com/

    https://momsforcleanair.net/Dutra_Says_.html
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  27. TopTop #15
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    i also think that Barry has never checked out the site they are proposing or visited Shollenberger park by your comments about moving it to a new site. This is an idiotic site to have the plant. There are tons of better sites that would not be so destructive. Upwind from and right next door too a school and beautiful park and refuge for rare animals.

    https://www.petaluma360.com/article/..._asphalt_plant

    The San Francisco Chronicle and the Greenbelt Alliance have teamed up to spotlight the 5 best "Urban Outings" in the Bay Area. Guess who they selected as their #1 location in the North Bay? Shollenberger Park! https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...sn=001&sc=1000

    plus...

    PETALUMA WETLANDS
    A BIRDERíS DREAM

    At the end of July, the new Ellis Creek trail will be opened to the public, adding over two miles to an existing trail system in the Petaluma wetlands that includes strolls through Alman Marsh, and around Shollenberger Park. One will be able to walk almost eight miles (roundtrip) starting at the Sheraton Hotel located at the Petaluma Marina. This will only enhance what many (Greenbelt Alliance, S.F. Chronicle, etc.) have already described as a top destination for nature lovers.


    The 500-acre contiguous wetlands, left unspoiled, have much to offer - 200 species of birds, 25 species of mammals, reptiles and amphibians, over 100 types of plants, with trails that meander through or are adjacent to a variety of habitats ranging from seasonal ponds, uplands, to salt marshes. At points in the trail one walks alongside the Petaluma River. The headquarters of the Point Reyes Bird Observatory (PRBO) is also located next to Shollenberger. PRBO is world famous for its research efforts and provides educational services to the public on-site. Additionally, the Petaluma Wetlands Alliance (PWA) conducts wetland tours. Its website features hundreds of wildlife photos, https://www.petalumawetlands.org/.


    Properly promoted, the wetlands will attract thousands of birders and other eco-tourists to Petaluma. That has been the City of Petaluma and PWAís goal for several years, awaiting the opening of the Ellis Creek segment of the trail. The success of this effort will greatly depend, however, upon maintaining the purity of the wetlands from harmful development, such as the Dutra asphalt and recycling facility proposed across the river from Shollenberger. Not only would the plant destroy scenic vistas along the Petaluma River but also create excessive noise and pollutants potentially harmful to the park animals, and even human visitors.
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  29. TopTop #16
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    It seems Efren sent the Sheriff's department to a friends of mine's house, because he wrote that Efren would "regret" his decision if he voted for this thing(same thing he wrote to Kerns). The Police actually somewhat apologetic, saying they were just doing their job! HA! He told the cops he meant he would politically regret it, not advocating violence!
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  30. TopTop #17
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    To be clear, I really don't know all issues, concerns, and alternatives regarding the Dutra plant, so I can't take a firm position. However I do find Efren's vote disturbing and hold it as suspect whether it reflects my/our values and if its in the long term greatest good for the county.

    What I can do is make more information available here and open it up for discussion within our community.

    Here's another piece on it:

    GUEST OPINION: Dutra still wrong plant, wrong place
    October 11th, 2010

    By DAVID KELLER
    David Keller, director of the Petaluma River Council, is a former Petaluma City Council member.

    Dutra Materials would have us believe that it can make an asphalt factory without any releases of toxins or noxious fumes and dusts and build it anywhere.

    Aimi Dutraís public relations pitch (ďDutraís response to Sonoma Countyís concerns,Ē Close to Home) is ďeverything is wonderful.Ē Tragically, this is not the case.

    Having visited Aimi Dutraís earlier version of their ďstate of the art, ideal Astec plantĒ in Ontario, I know firsthand of the leaks, the smells, the noise and the dusts coming from not only the plant itself but also from the trucks hauling in rock and leaving with un-tarped asphalt loads. During peak production, when they are running 24 hours a day, seven days a week to fill government contracts, that means heavy trucks every three to five minutes, all day and night.

    And if you want to get to Highway 101 in the morning or afternoon rush hours, they predict stop-and-go traffic waiting for trucks at the Landing Way/Petaluma Boulevard South intersection. Sit and wait behind these trucks and breathe in deeply for more asphalt magic.

    The Dutra Companies have a terrible legal and environmental record, stretching from the Port of Miami, Fla. to the Gulf of the Farralones National Marine Sanctuary, filled with illegal dumping, dredging, huge fines and settlements and bankruptcy. While Dutra has pitched its perfection to the community, the reality is unfortunately way short of the rosy pictures.

    Dutraís fabrications here have been unmasked. This includes trying to hide blocking of the Petaluma Riverís navigational channel and falsely mapping PG&Eís high pressure gas pipelines ó the kind that just blew up in San Bruno ó out of the way and onto their neighborís parcel. Both of these we uncovered (no thanks to Sonoma Countyís planning department). Dutra also has eliminated its barging of materials to the river front parcel: Itís unusable.

    The operations are not ďriver-dependent,Ē and Dutra will not bring one ounce of new shipping tonnage to our river. So much for its claims to help with river dredging.

    In fact, had county officials done their due diligence six years ago when Dutra proposed the barging scenario, we would have been able to move this operation to a more suitable location, away from Shollenberger Park, with the residences, businesses and tourists who use it and work near it.

    All along, Dutra has fabricated information about this proposal. Why would Dutra stop now?

    Some have said, ďPetaluma has to take their share of asphalt pollution and not increase pollution at Santa Rosaís asphalt plants.Ē But they are just echoing Dutraís perversion of environmental justice. You donít spread pollution around. Instead, the right thing to do is to clean it up. Dutra doesnít get that.

    This remains the wrong plan, in the wrong place.

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  32. TopTop #18
    Richard Nichols's Avatar
    Richard Nichols
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote Sara S wrote: View Post
    I liked Carrillo and I voted for him, but I don't like what he's doing now; out here near the coast, where the roads are very bad, and the county closed the Annapolis Road Maintenance Yard, he voted for yet another winery/public tasting room, ignoring the fact that this will cause a whole lot more usage/damage to the roads. I haven't taken the time to really examine his entire record, but just this vote and the Dutra one are ominously skewed toward letting money interests make his decisions; that's sure not what I want in my supervisor.
    Just look who supported Efren (Eric the K) and you know that his votes will be pro resource extraction. Does anyone expect him to be against 'preservation ranch"? Fat chance.
    This is all a shame, because Efren is a smart young guy, who is losing support because of this. To all of you who voted for him and not Rue, we knew you were asking for it, and now you have it.
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  34. TopTop #19
    Richard Nichols's Avatar
    Richard Nichols
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote tacitus wrote: View Post
    I had to wonder why Sara supported Efren over Rue but didn't have time to respond just then. In strong agreement with Richard's post here. I like Efren for where he came from and the perspective he brings with him, absent the developer/business aspect, and have a feeling he has begun to listen to us a bit more. We do after all have a voice in the community and have worked to make that voice clear and strong. I also remember Eric as a young supervisor when he met with us along the River, listened carefully and with understanding and was known as a fellow environmentalist.
    Which Sara are you referring to?

    I wasn't around when Eric the K was a good enviro vote, but now he has his hand into all kinds of anti-enviro projects. Also, he shocked the dems by getting elected the the central committee. I think he stuck some green branches into his tea bag to get elected.
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  36. TopTop #20
    The Owl
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote Richard Nichols wrote: View Post
    Which Sara are you referring to?

    I wasn't around when Eric the K was a good enviro vote, but now he has his hand into all kinds of anti-enviro projects. Also, he shocked the dems by getting elected the the central committee. I think he stuck some green branches into his tea bag to get elected.
    Well I was, and it's true, Eric WAS the perfect West County Sup... but like a lot of people that buy into the system, what starts out as a line they won't ever cross becomes a GREY line they "might" under some circumstances, which in turn becomes a grey AREA and eventually it's ALL GREY and the principles of youth have all been compromised and justified away. These are very powerful, coercive forces and once you're in the political game and have to think about getting re-elected, you soon notice that way more of that money you need to buy media time, make campaign signs, mailings, etc. exists with industrial interests than it does with "the people"... especially in these times where everyone is struggling so. I hope we aren't witnessing that process that took Eric and so many others beginning anew in Efren.
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  38. TopTop #21
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I confess, I'm the Sara; I met Efren before the election and I was impressed by him. He was obviously very bright and energetic, and seemed to be a "good guy."

    After he was elected he was very responsive, I thought: he called for a meeting in Annapolis about the proposed road maintenance yard closure, with the County road guys (not that it helped, but still...), and attended a town meeting in Bodega Bay which included talk about the troubles a developer was causing for The Sandpiper restaurant.

    He wrote columns for the Sebastopol paper which I thought was keeping us more informed about the 5th district goings-on.

    Things seem to have changed, though. And I was around when Eric K. was our supervisor, and he was really good, not that I paid too much attention since few of the actions really affected the outlands where I live. And, yes, I did notice that he changed, too.

    Will we have an alternative when the next election comes around?




    Quote Richard Nichols wrote: View Post
    Which Sara are you referring to?

    I wasn't around when Eric the K was a good enviro vote, but now he has his hand into all kinds of anti-enviro projects. Also, he shocked the dems by getting elected the the central committee. I think he stuck some green branches into his tea bag to get elected.
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  40. TopTop #22
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma


    I'm replying to the last few posts. You're writing as if Efren was an enviro who has turned pro-development. That's not my read of the history. Look at who endorsed him, look at who contributed to his campaign.

    He talked a good game about the environment, but his
    board votes are showing that he knows on which side his bread is buttered. I see no shift in position, based on what we knew about him from the get-go.

    As for his argument as to why he voted for Dutra II, I find it totally disingenuous.

    "I just canít understand the distinction between wanting certain things, demanding certain things, and not understanding where they come from. Whether itís a landfill, whether itís a quarry, or whether itís an asphalt facility."

    In a sense he's taunting the environmental community for being naive children who don't understand the "real world". That's not a recipe for compromise or consensus building. He's firmly placed himself in the camp that backed him. The rest was just baffling us with booosheeeaaatt!

    In that regard, he makes a fine addition to politics as usual. At least he's smart enough to not speculate that putting a decommissioned pocket battleship on the river in Petaluma, to honor WWII veterans, might tempt a North Korean missile strike!!!??? Stick a fork in her political career!

    The vast majority in Petaluma will soon come to despise him, if they don't already. But he's Sup from the 5th District. They don't vote for him. He's got a base in South West Santa Rosa. He's got a base in the business community. That's lots of votes and lots of money. But it remains to be seen if that can be translated into another successful run for office. 2012 will be a key election for him and for President Obama.

    Striking similarity there. Except that Obama has pissed in his own supporters pool with his, and his chief aides, disparaging comments about the Liberal / Left.

    Efren Carrillo never claimed to be motivated by environmental concerns, at least not first, second or third on his list of priorities.

    So, two votes to three, instead of one to four, you could say we've made some progress.

    The results from the Santa Rosa City Council election, and the Torliatt / Rabbitt Sup's election will be telling. The guns and knives are certainly out for Torliatt, you can read it in the PD almost every day. They know that if Torliatt wins, it'll be the three women, Liberal, pro-labor environmentalists, against the two guys in the developer's back pockets.

    Then the same debacle the conservative Republican business power elite in Santa Rosa, who pretend to be moderate Democrats because no Republican has a chance at winning a general election here, suffered two years ago in the city, will happen to them on a larger scale, because they will have lost their lock on power in the whole county. At least temporarily.

    That would really send them into a tizzy. All of a sudden lack of job growth, economic stagnation, public debts, etc. will become the fault of of enviro lefties, even though their hold on power for decades on end, was when the policies and priorities that they'll suddenly be railing against, were enacted. Sound familiar? As above, so below.

    That's why they have to take down Torliatt and all the gushing positive stuff you're hearing about Rabbitt is a carefully orchestrated PR campaign. Election same old same old.

    They're also making a concerted effort to take out Veronica Jacobi and ? (spacing the name) in Santa Rosa.

    The PD editorial board has been openly crowing about the possibility of returning the old "balance" on City Council, while poo'pooing the secret negotiations to promise wage and pension guarantees to the Police and Firefighters unions, by new candidates running on platforms of fiscal realism and responsibility!?

    So, the best candidates are those willing to cut secret deals in return for backing from public employees, while promising to to cut costs? At least the deals aren't secret any more, but they were at first!

    Polytricks an de Shitstem,

    I once was disowned by the head of the Living Wage Coalition of Sonoma County. I was active in the group eight years ago. We were asked to send emails to the Santa Rosa City Council prior to them considering a resolution to simply investigate the possibility of enacting a Living Wage ordinance. In other words to just ask staff to come up with some numbers as to what it might cost. We were lobbying them to vote for the resolution to, "just think about it seriously and discuss what it might look like". After going before them for almost a year, just to get them to consider the possibility.

    I wrote them that if they were as undemocratic as to not even consider the question, all they would be accomplishing was to provide their opponents in future elections with, "a stick to beat them with", in those future campaigns. That was considered too militant and threatening and my email was disavowed and I was denounced as not representing the effort for livable wages in our region. I thought I was just being realistic and pointing out the simple choice in front of them. Nothing to lose in investigating feasibility, everything to lose by flushing us without considering it seriously. Seemed like an obvious choice to me.

    The next two times Mike Martini (SR City Councilman at that time, firmly in the North Bay Developers, Chamber of Commerce and Farm Bureau camp, most vocal of the, "business is business, don't tell us how to run ours", conservative camp) ran for office, once against Woolsey and once for Sup. he was roundly and repeatedly denounced,
    for his vote against even talking about Living Wage. He lost both times.

    Those criticisms were made by the Left/Labor/Environmentalist community, including the individual who denounced me for being, "too assertive", a couple of years before. You haven't seen Martini's name on the ballot lately, have you? He's back running his wine business and no longer serves in public office.

    Actions have consequences. And some of us have long memories.

    Last edited by "Mad" Miles; 10-18-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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  42. TopTop #23
    Gratongirl
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I'm not sure what you mean here, Sara. The Annapolis Road yard remains open during the Winter months due to Efren's efforts? He's also actively working with the Feds on making sure there is a site to replace the post office there...

    Quote Sara S wrote: View Post
    I confess, I'm the Sara; I met Efren before the election and I was impressed by him. He was obviously very bright and energetic, and seemed to be a "good guy."

    After he was elected he was very responsive, I thought: he called for a meeting in Annapolis about the proposed road maintenance yard closure, with the County road guys (not that it helped, but still...), and attended a town meeting in Bodega Bay which included talk about the troubles a developer was causing for The Sandpiper restaurant.

    He wrote columns for the Sebastopol paper which I thought was keeping us more informed about the 5th district goings-on.

    Things seem to have changed, though. And I was around when Eric K. was our supervisor, and he was really good, not that I paid too much attention since few of the actions really affected the outlands where I live. And, yes, I did notice that he changed, too.

    Will we have an alternative when the next election comes around?
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  44. TopTop #24
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I felt sadness that Efren voted for Dutra, in particular going against the people in Petaluma opposed to the project. I met Efren at a public meeting in Sebastopol this summer, I was impressed with his command of the issues facing the county, he quickly recalled budget numbers, and was sensitive to public issues. I spoke to him after the meeting about an issue I was having with PRMD, and his staff later called PRMD and got it resolved in my favor. He was late for the meeting, from having met with I think the President of Mexico or some top official, in San Francisco, along with CA Democratic honchos and perhaps even the Arnold. Being Latino in this state, he clearly has some political advantages.

    I didn't like it initially that he supported the big Wine Factory at 116 & Occidental Rd. There were different issues there, I think the Co Planning Commission and Supes were all unanimous in support of it for the 85 jobs it'd bring, screw the senic corridor, and he was probably tired of seeing Healdsburg get all the winery business. Plus a big justification was the Best family had been around here a long time, but that just says they have more political weight.

    However, I thought his reasons for voting for Dutra were bullshit, the story about walking to school near the other asphalt plant, a rediculous justification. And the thing "we're driving on it, we have to let them make it" ... basically an excuse and pandering to business interests.

    His comment "there were 3 voting in favor, so don't try to hang it all on me" was another slippery justification, when in fact he was the deciding vote.

    I personally like Efren, although it appears that he's pro business, not as willing to preserve the incredible beauty and rich sacredness of this land as I'd hope. Politicians egos become compromised to powerful forces, once they take office. The Tea Party is not alone in noticing this.

    Tomas
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  46. TopTop #25
    riverosprey's Avatar
    riverosprey
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Hi Gang,

    A lot of great writers on this thread...though I beg to differ with many assertions of the bakers dozen contributing.

    I ain't changed my mind one bit about Supervisor Carrillo...he is the hardest working Supervisor I have ever known and is involved with so many efforts to improve the lives AND environment of everyone in Sonoma County.

    I love the historic threads at the bottom of this thread and am going to try to cut and paste a diatribe I submitted a couple years ago regarding my endorsement of Efren. This endorsement holds true today...Efren is a breath of fresh air with the courage to make tough decisions.

    Respectfully

    Tom Lynch

    Thread: Why I support Efren Carrillo for 5th District Supervisor


    Why I support Efren Carrillo for 5th District Supervisor


    Hello Friends and Neighbors...

    Below is a challenge from Zeno Switjink as to why I support Efren Carrillo for 5th District Supervisor. I said because we need new ideas, new paradigms, new energy with some fresh perspectives to address local problems. After getting to know Efren through the course of the campaign and having known Rue for over 25 years I made a difficult decision and endorsed Efren. I believe either candidate will go through the proverbial learning curve once elected but ultimately I think Efren will become a great leader who will bring us together to solve incredibly difficult problems ahead.

    We may be on the verge of a societal collapse out of which a phoenix will rise from the ashes. We are in the midst of the largest transference of wealth from younger generations to older generations in the history of any society. Gone are what demographers called the "sweet spot" of the 60's where we had massive public works projects and social programs funded by eight contributors for every one recipient of social security and medicare...today there are 3 contributors for every one recipient, soon to be only two. Our political leaders do not address the real issues.

    We have huge unfunded obligations at the County with retiree medical benefits, shortly we will see this liability dwarfed by pay as you go "enhanced retirement" obligations funded by younger County workers (negotiated by older retiring County staff). In the midst of a long and deep recession with high unemployment, all of us seeing friends lose their homes and deep reductions in tax revenues, Sonoma County is giving everyone raises in salaries and benefits of 5%. These raises are funded by not rehiring those who retire while making further cuts in Human Services and Mental Health programs. We also see a gutting of funding for non-profits and volunteer organisations as well as plans for laying off younger workers, cannibalizing our county work force, eating our seed corn.

    I am concerned about Preservation Ranch but I am also concerned about Preservation of a Humane Society; the social safety net in our County is an essential service funded by our tax dollars to serve the least of thee amongst us. I have friends walking the streets of Santa Rosa anorexic with matted hair due to cuts in County Mental Health Services. I see the entire budget of the Russian River Senior Center of $162,000/year equal to the individual salary and benefits of over a 1000 of the upper tier County staff. We cannot expect local government to solve all of our problems, we need to enlist and involve everyone and we don't do this by cutting funding to our non-profits and volunteers.

    Over the last thirty years I have been arrested more times protecting the environment of Sonoma County than many. My commitment to the environment of Sonoma County and the future of all of us present and future is unwavering. But to me, as it should be for all my fellow environmentalists, the environment includes not only ecology but also the economy and reform of government services. Since the early eighties leaders of the environmental movement in Sonoma County have recognized the need for sustainable economic development in order to protect the environment from unsustainable practices.

    To me Efren Carrillo understands more of the problems we face than any of the other candidates running in all three districts. He actually reads the 07/08 and 08/09 County budget. He is smart, honest, charismatic, caring... and anyone willing to dress up as a nun and join the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in Guerneville to call a bingo game can represent the 5th District anytime anywhere in my book ;0P.

    peace and love,
    Tom Lynch

    Last edited by Alex; 10-19-2010 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Fixed formatting
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  47. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  48. TopTop #26
    sambacat's Avatar
    sambacat
    Supporting member

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Hopefully, Efren is O U T come next election. (don't even know why west County voted for him anyway -- too bad they had to learn the hard way. Rue Furch was an avowed environmentalist who would have turned Dutra down flat.)
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  49. TopTop #27
    elienos's Avatar
    elienos
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    I don't think it is environmentalist vs non-environmentalist. Even non-environmentalists think it is a stupid idea. Of course and environmentalist probably wouldn't have voted for the thing. But plenty of non-environmentalists are against the plant.

    I wonder if he'll ever come up with an intelligent, less patronizing reason to endorse the plant? I actually still can't believe that he will go through with it. I mean...I really do think it will cost him his seat...unless no one good runs against him.
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  50. TopTop #28
    Zeno Swijtink's Avatar
    Zeno Swijtink
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Tom,

    I wonder whether you can help me get the text of Carillo's impassioned (according to the paper) speech when he voted for that asphalt plant on the banks of the Petaluma river.

    Since you are his Planning Commissioner you may have access to the text and post it here.

    If this speech has already been made available in this thread I apologize.

    Zeno


    Quote riverosprey wrote: View Post
    Hi Gang,

    A lot of great writers on this thread...though I beg to differ with many assertions of the bakers dozen contributing.

    I ain't changed my mind one bit about Supervisor Carrillo...he is the hardest working Supervisor I have ever known and is involved with so many efforts to improve the lives AND environment of everyone in Sonoma County.

    I love the historic threads at the bottom of this thread and am going to try to cut and paste a diatribe I submitted a couple years ago regarding my endorsement of Efren. This endorsement holds true today...Efren is a breath of fresh air with the courage to make tough decisions.

    Respectfully

    Tom Lynch
    Last edited by Barry; 10-19-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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  51. TopTop #29
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote Zeno Swijtink wrote: View Post

    If this speech has already been made available in this thread I apologize.
    I posted it as post #13 on this thread.

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  52. TopTop #30
    Zeno Swijtink's Avatar
    Zeno Swijtink
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo votes for Dutra, against Petaluma

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    I posted it as post #13 on this thread.
    Thanks, Barry. Obviously I haven't payed enough attention to Wacco lately!
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