advice for putting a teen on anti-depressants

[amalia]

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[Clancy]

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old...

Study: Antidepressants don't work for most patients

Digital Journal — A breakthrough analysis of Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) found that best-selling antidepressants aren’t more effective than placebos.

University of Hull researchers say antidepressants “have no clinically significant effects in all cases apart from a small group of the most severely depressed patients.”

In a released statement, Professor Irving Kirsch, from the Psychology department at the University of Hull, said: “The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking antidepressants is not very great. This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments.”

The study, published in the journal PLoS (Public Library of Science) Medicine, questions the logic of prescribing drugs such as Prozac, which has been used by 40 million people worldwide. This study is taking aim at popular drugs thanks to its unique methodology — researchers incorporated data not previously released by drug companies, which they obtained through American freedom of information laws. The team found published and unpublished studies, allowing them to conduct meta-analysis of all clinical trials. If they hadn’t gone this route, they would have had to rely on published studies which may be filled with selective reporting due to sponsoring parties.

Study: Antidepressants don't work for most patients

[Barry]

Also see/hear this report on NPR this morning:

Meds May Help Only Those With Severe Depression : NPR

I would highly recommend against anti-depressants. Instead I would suggest more exercise, nature and the teachings of Abraham-Hicks.

[justinbill]

The truth is, they work, Most of them are effective from my experience. The side effects often times suck, but when there is a serious deppresion and stuck in a cycle, they can allow for enough functioning to get into a place where its possible to fix what was causing the depression in the first place.

Some things to keep in mind:
tapering off them is important, and keeping on a consistent dosing is also really important.

Watch for over prescribing meds, if one isn't working, don't let the docter prescribe 2 more meds unless you absolutely have to. a 17 year old shouldn't be taking 20 pills a day.

Hormone levels and blood work should probably be done, and trying to pinoint what is causing the depression is also worth a try.

Food allergies also causes some depressions. I have known someone that would be super depressed after eating wheat. and like clockwork, she would eat some wheat accidentaly, she would just cry, after a day it would go away.

I am not a dr. only someone giving my personal experience and two bits.

Justin

[Clancy]

And this is why meta-studies (averaging the results of many studies) are so valuable. Placebo effect is real. Personal experience can not be trusted in some situations - this is one of them.

I could give you a sugar pill and it will be just as in/effective in alleviating your depression as would the expensive drugs with extensive side effects, IF you believe you are getting the drug.

In contrast, meta-analysis of other drugs (like aspirin for instance), show that it's significantly more effective than a placebo. Aspirin will reduce fever and pain regardless of your expectations.

When huge corporations knowingly sell expensive, dangerous drugs that help no better than a sugar pill, and cover up evidence showing their lack of efficacy, I think it's time to call them what they really are: profit motivated charlatans.

Interestingly, SAMe has been shown to be very effective in relieving depression;

"Our meta-analysis showed a greater response rate with SAMe when compared with placebo, with a global effect size ranging from 17% to 38% depending on the definition of response, and an antidepressant effect comparable with that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. CONCLUSION--The efficacy of SAMe in treating depressive syndromes and disorders is superior with that of placebo and comparable to that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. Since SAMe is a naturally occurring compound with relatively few side-effects, it is a potentially important treatment for depression."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7941964

The truth is, they work, Most of them are effective from my experience. The side effects often times suck, but when there is a serious deppresion and stuck in a cycle, they can allow for enough functioning to get into a place where its possible to fix what was causing the depression in the first place.

Some things to keep in mind:
tapering off them is important, and keeping on a consistent dosing is also really important.

Watch for over prescribing meds, if one isn't working, don't let the docter prescribe 2 more meds unless you absolutely have to. a 17 year old shouldn't be taking 20 pills a day.

Hormone levels and blood work should probably be done, and trying to pinoint what is causing the depression is also worth a try.

Food allergies also causes some depressions. I have known someone that would be super depressed after eating wheat. and like clockwork, she would eat some wheat accidentaly, she would just cry, after a day it would go away.

I am not a dr. only someone giving my personal experience and two bits.

Justin

[Thad]

Depression is culture based and medications only make you more adjusted and tolerant to what is causing the problem. You are probably so full of frustration that your listening is as though poised to pounce with some great solution...Depression is a pain in the soul and as much an indicator as pain in the body that something is wrong. It is very obvious the tiredness of the American dream, but we as olders have become "adjusted" and can live beside ongoing ugly without the impact this has on youthful idealism... Its what's outside that's more wrong than whats inside, If you want an enlightened moment find the right one and lead the conversation to what life would look like in her world of what it would take to be happy, really listen and be a part of it and not have that poised attitude of waiting to pounce with the perfect solution...

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[justinbill]

Depression is culture based and medications only make you more adjusted and tolerant to what is causing the problem. You are probably so full of frustration that your listening is as though poised to pounce with some great solution...Depression is a pain in the soul and as much an indicator as pain in the body that something is wrong. It is very obvious the tiredness of the American dream, but we as olders have become "adjusted" and can live beside ongoing ugly without the impact this has on youthful idealism... Its what's outside that's more wrong than whats inside, If you want an enlightened moment find the right one and lead the conversation to what life would look like in her world of what it would take to be happy, really listen and be a part of it and not have that poised attitude of waiting to pounce with the perfect solution...

there is some validity to science of mind, but the depression I am hearing talked about is the type that gets in the way of normal everyday life. As someone who has experienced fairly serious depression, and been able to recover from it, I can tell you that getting out of it isn't as easy as thinking positive.

I experienced it as a cycle that once it starts, is very difficult to stop. Depression medications are an effective quick acting, short term solution to a very complex and hard to stop problem.

It is also relatively inexpensive compared to acupuncture, or almost anything that is not covered by insurance.

A serious cause of my depression was actually food allergies, lactose and gluten. there was also being a part of a church I didn't believe in, and diet pills.

Most of us have to go to work, and go to school, and sometimes antidepressants allow people to keep functioning until they can find a better and sometimes more expensive way to treat depression.

[Clancy]

SSRIs take up to six weeks before they begin to stop the uptake of serotonin. If you then experience some of the awful side effects, it can take up to six weeks for the effects to stop after you quit taking it.

They are no more effective in relieving mild to moderate depression than a placebo as the myriad studies you choose to ignore show, and they are not at all quick acting.

I usually try to resist contradicting people, but you are giving erroneous advice that I can't let pass.

Depression medications are an effective quick acting, short term solution to a very complex and hard to stop problem...

[oliviathunderkitty]

There are a lot of good articles written in the last couple of years on this topic, including something published yesterday or today that cites research that suggests anti-depressants are not effective for mild or moderate depression. There are other serious cautions for teenagers; antidepressants seem to stimulate or increase suicidal ideation in teenagers and those in their early 20s. From all that I've ready, the effectiveness of antidepressants is greatly increased when used in conjunction with talk therapy.

I have struggled with a daughter's depression on and off for years and have observed the utter ineffectiveness of antidepressants in her case. (Emphasis on her case.)

Another thing that should be considered is thyroid function. She should be tested. A large percentage (around 30 percent, I believe) of depression is a result of low thyroid function. General practitioners often prescribe antidepressants without checking this function. In my daughter's situation, it was thyroid cancer causing the depression. I have known a number of other young people in the same situation.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[troutski]

It's so nice to see all the responses from people that don't seem to have a problem with depression. It must be nice to be so evolved and balanced.

I have a daughter that was diagnosed in the 5th grade after an extensive neuro-psych evaluation buy a team of the best medical people we could find in California. ADD and depression, with executive function issues.
We debated for months about psycho-pharmacology. It was not an easy decision.
The DR. was very honest. "We don't know what will work for her, and it may be nothing will."
It took several months of observation, note taking, and fiddling dosages, but you know what? She began to function, socially and achedemically. I'm sure it was the sugar pills .

She was on a combination of 3 drugs until her freshman year of high school. We had done every kind of alternative treatment we could find before we reluctantly agreed to medication. We continued to try that path throughout.

She has been totally drug free since high school. Whether it was puberty (hormones have a HUGH impact on brain chemistry) or just personal growth, she hasn't taken a pill since. She had been in therapy since she was about 6. (she is adopted, and she had major issues). I am fairly certain that she would be a very different person had we not explored this modality.

She goes to therapy still, once a month. Mostly to deal with her stupid parents and those kinds of issues.....

I agree, they are effective for a very limited population. I think, more importantly, the person who is prescribing them is huge, as well as family that can observe from the outside how the person is doing.
The statistics and meta studies are interesting, and to a point very accurate. What they fail to capture is that they can work well for a small % of the population. And if you read the studies (I have, esp with children), that % is really, really small. ( I am not aware of any that are more effective that 20%, and most are in single digits)

So the % of effectiveness may be the same as a placebo, but it does help some people.

You absolutely must see someone who knows what they are doing. Adult or especially younger folks. We drove to Oakland Children's every other month for 4 years to see the guy that is one of the best in the country. He totally freaked my daughter out, and she hated him, but he knew his stuff.
I'm still totally convinced finding the right drug (if any..) and the right dosage is more shamanistic a process than science. The drug companies, in most cases do not fully understand how or why they work for some people.
It's is like throwing sh*t against the wall and seeing what sticks.

So, I'm in the other camp. Would I do it again? Yes. Would I do it differently? Mostly no, other than to have realized that she could do without them sooner.

Did she like it? No. It took her about 6 months of being off them to not feel like she was "living in a cotton world, somewhat outside her body". I take responsibility for not recognizing sooner that she no longer needed them.

She has turned out to be a well grounded, delightful, articulate, self aware and self assured person that acts (mostly) in integrity. I see it as something that created the space and survival skills to allow her to mature enough for her brain chemestry to sort itself out. It didn't cure anything. It did keep her alive and functioning until she had a chance.

I will respond off line to any further questions that do not violate her privacy.

It was the hardest decision her mother and I ever had to make. I have no doubts it was the correct one.

It is also a very personal one. There is a lot of social stigma about psycho-pharamcology.

As evidenced by most of the comments here.

Best,

Troutski

I suck without spell check....sorry

[Clancy]

The amazing thing about the placebo effect is that it actually works, but it's just plain evil to take advantage of people by using it. You could put toilet water in those capsules and get the same result for most people (minus the side effects).

And spare us your unwarranted sarcasm please, you have no idea whether or not people in this thread have dealt with depression, and I question whether that's even relevant.

It's so nice to see all the responses from people that don't seem to have a problem with depression. It must be nice to be so evolved and balanced...

...

So the % of effectiveness may be the same as a placebo, but it does help some people.

[justinbill]

SSRIs take up to six weeks before they begin to stop the uptake of serotonin. If you then experience some of the awful side effects, it can take up to six weeks for the effects to stop after you quit taking it.

They are no more effective in relieving mild to moderate depression than a placebo as the myriad studies you choose to ignore show, and they are not at all quick acting.

I usually try to resist contradicting people, but you are giving erroneous advice that I can't let pass.

I am merely making that statement from personal experience. I began feeling the effect of prozac in as little as 10 days. It usually took six weeks for all the effects, both bad and good, to show up. Zoloft for me takes about 2 weeks, and after a month, is full strength.

Quick acting? as compared to what? are there any studies to find the fastest solution to deppresion? how long does someone have to see a therapist before getting results?

What other erroneous information am I giving? and I am not quoting a study to validate my claim, simply personal experience. I am ok with you contradicting my personal experience.

Also, what studies have there been on placebo use for long term effective treatment for diseases? One of the prerequisites of taking a placebo and for it to work is someone has to say it works and someone has to initiate the belief that something that doesn't work actually does.

Being on antidepressants allowed me to keep my job, still have friends, and stay in school. Not to mention health insurance, which if you get fired or even laid off, is almost impossible to pay for when you lost your job because you were depressed, or flunked out of school.

So the cycle was broken.

[StormDancer]

(After reading the plethora of other advice, I have decided to reply again publicly.)

The greatest mistakes I made raising my children were a result of not listening to them, especially as teens. What does the teen want? She/he will have to live with the results of your decision.
-AnnaLisa
(My children are now 29 and 35... old enough for me to see the results of many of my decisions.)

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[Sonomadreamer]

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

Julia Roth's "The Mood Cure". Must read before doing anything!!! She is in Mill Valley and has had incredible results right there in here clinic within a few minutes of giving over the counter supplements. Please check out the site befopre moving on. The Mood Cure

[Clancy]

Because of the placebo effect, you can not trust personal experience. It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't understand this.

And btw, studies do show that SAMe is effective in relieving depression and it works almost immediately.

did you read this?

"Our meta-analysis showed a greater response rate with SAMe when compared with placebo, with a global effect size ranging from 17% to 38% depending on the definition of response, and an antidepressant effect comparable with that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. CONCLUSION--The efficacy of SAMe in treating depressive syndromes and disorders is superior with that of placebo and comparable to that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. Since SAMe is a naturally occurring compound with relatively few side-effects, it is a potentially important treatment for depression."
S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: ... [Acta Neurol Scand Suppl. 1994] - PubMed result

I am merely making that statement from personal experience. I began feeling the effect of prozac in as little as 10 days. It usually took six weeks for all the effects, both bad and good, to show up. Zoloft for me takes about 2 weeks, and after a month, is full strength.

Quick acting? as compared to what? are there any studies to find the fastest solution to deppresion? how long does someone have to see a therapist before getting results?

What other erroneous information am I giving? and I am not quoting a study to validate my claim, simply personal experience. I am ok with you contradicting my personal experience.

Also, what studies have there been on placebo use for long term effective treatment for diseases? One of the prerequisites of taking a placebo and for it to work is someone has to say it works and someone has to initiate the belief that something that doesn't work actually does.

Being on antidepressants allowed me to keep my job, still have friends, and stay in school. Not to mention health insurance, which if you get fired or even laid off, is almost impossible to pay for when you lost your job because you were depressed, or flunked out of school.

So the cycle was broken.

[Barry]

I would also recommend the natural supplement 5-HTP.
I consider it to be a nervous system tonic.
At a minimum, its cheap and has no side effects
(except possible sleepiness but that can be a plus if you take it at night).

[Icssoma]

hi--thanks for looking into this in such a public forum. chemical imbalances are a major problem in our society which we don't want to address. we have a severely bi-polar son who had a grim prognosis. he was extreme as bi-polar disorder doesn't usually show itself until 15-25, although the current thought is now that many children with strong adhd, or chronic & severe add, may often be precursors for bi-polar disorder.

blue shield offered to institutionalize him for life at 6, but refused to pay for therapy, psychiatry, or other helpful treatments.

with out an incredible therapist, we went through 3 before i did 40 hours of research to get one of the best (Linda Moon, an amazing and gifted woman who helped give me strength, by alleviating some of our acute isolation surrounding this issue--we lost friends, people assumed we were bad parents, i can't think of anything more difficult. Linda is no longer alive but I want to honor her, her help for our son, and support of me truly made it possible to continue on many days.)

We tried Bach remedies, healers, extensive fish oil (from the company in Canada which has had some success, but like anything does not work for all.) We were in the Waldorf community, which i miss, but say it by way of being open to lots of alternative ways to work. Conventional medication was not our lst, or 5th choice, and it was a scary step.

This does not mean that children aren't overmedicated for being children, they are. There are ones who need medication, and without start medicating themselves w. alcohol & marajuana, move on to abuse, other drugs and become at least 1/3-1/2 of our prison system. Therapy, a supportive family, an outside support system, a sports activity, dance (a dog trials, horse backriding lessons, somewhere she can go & get exercise & have a warm loving non judgmental presence).

We saw one good psychiatrist, one automated woman dr. w. a background from stanford & and another super credentials. The other worked latter worked on an assembly line plan. She knew little about medications, but had a thriving practice which was "kept going" because some children are helped dramatically by the few drugs she does prescribe. (I would have reported her, but keeping my family going was most of what i could do.)

The lst psychiatrist that was really knowldgable with children/youth was Dr. John Leipsic 542-8979. (bi-polar disorder was not recognized in children, AMA, etc. approximately '97 or '98. a book was published one year before documenting cases.) My son still sees him. Medications need to be monitored. I don't care what people say, but many medications would show differences in 24-48 hours, both good and bad. Do not expect a psychiatrist to be a therapist.

I would be happy to talk w. you more if you wish. Thanks for reaching out on behalf of your daughter and many others. This will take careful observation for a long time. Depression can be situational, short term, long term, etc. If all parents were "great parents" we could change this country in amazing ways. my very best. sj

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[theindependenteye]

Not speaking here either as an expert or as a sufferer of depression. Only to say, from observation, that there are many sorts of depression (not just mild or deep), many sources, and consequently many strategies for healing. Nobody has the definitive answer. What you're doing in reaching out for advice is exactly right, and it's just necessary to study it all, give something a reasonable try, and collaborate closely with your child in monitoring the effects. You can't talk someone out of a depression, but it can help, in keeping up their hope, to keep them actively involved in the process as a collaborator and not just as a patient.

Best wishes—
Conrad

[Icssoma]

i completely agree with the person who talked about taking anti-depressents & having it save her (?) life and job. when you can't drag yourself out of bed, or it takes all the energy you can, no placebo effect will work. kqed had a show monday nite, and a number of people talked about how people don't understand depression. most talked about the hopelessness, the inability to take action, and more. some were still taking medication successfully, some had been able to stop taking it, some (& some of my friends) had reduced the dosage. I have a friend who takes 12mg of zoloft, (sertraline, is the generic), any psychiatrist would know this.
having gone through a difficult menopause, my partner, 10 years later breezed through, after six months of trying everything i knew, or studied, or was suggested, i can not imagine getting through with out medication.
i had a wonderful acupuncturist. I couldn't sleep (hot flashes), and i had the temporary depression that had accompanied my periods, though with menopause, it was unending. my sleep and my deep depression were
everyone's experience is different, but real, & dramatic chemical imbalances are difficult to treat with out medication, in combination with therapies and other changes. after my son's experience, i have seen "unmedicated" problem children/lazy children/unmotivated to go on to end up in prison. personally three cases, i know intimately.
most of us never imagined medicating ourselves, or our children. there is often shame accompanying the process. when one is desperate, and takes the steps, it can be a miracle. i completely support the response of the person who talks about keeping her job, staying functioning.
the kqed special monday nite 9 or 10, maybe helpful, i only watched 20 minutes.

Because of the placebo effect, you can not trust personal experience. It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't understand this.

And btw, studies do show that SAMe is effective in relieving depression and it works almost immediately.

did you read this?

"Our meta-analysis showed a greater response rate with SAMe when compared with placebo, with a global effect size ranging from 17% to 38% depending on the definition of response, and an antidepressant effect comparable with that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. CONCLUSION--The efficacy of SAMe in treating depressive syndromes and disorders is superior with that of placebo and comparable to that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. Since SAMe is a naturally occurring compound with relatively few side-effects, it is a potentially important treatment for depression."
S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: ... [Acta Neurol Scand Suppl. 1994] - PubMed result

[justinbill]

I did read the abstract, for some reason my computer isn't able to see the complete "meta-study", but here is what I was able to gleen:

The study was comparing results obtained from multiple studies on a specific group of antidepressants called Tricyclic. I was on one of these, its name was Imipraminoxide (Imiprex, Elepsin), it sort of worked, not all that well. compared to prozac, it was not worth taking for me personally.

I had a lot of success with a class called SSRI's, this included the prozac and zoloft.

There are several other classes of antidepressants that have also not been included in the meta-study. The truth is there is no magic one stop cure for depression, only tools that have to be evaluated to see if they actually are correct to get someone back on track.

I also started taking the imiprex when I was 15, and at 17 started the prozac.


I would love nothing more than to say "sam-e is the wonder tonic to depression, case closed" but everything has side effects, except of course, placebos don't, they are perfectly safe to use.

Because of the placebo effect, you can not trust personal experience. It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't understand this.

And btw, studies do show that SAMe is effective in relieving depression and it works almost immediately.

did you read this?

"Our meta-analysis showed a greater response rate with SAMe when compared with placebo, with a global effect size ranging from 17% to 38% depending on the definition of response, and an antidepressant effect comparable with that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. CONCLUSION--The efficacy of SAMe in treating depressive syndromes and disorders is superior with that of placebo and comparable to that of standard tricyclic antidepressants. Since SAMe is a naturally occurring compound with relatively few side-effects, it is a potentially important treatment for depression."
S-adenosyl-l-methionine (SAMe) as antidepressant: ... [Acta Neurol Scand Suppl. 1994] - PubMed result

[RussianRiverRattina]

As a mom, my heart goes out to you. It must feel awful to see your daughter having such a hard time for so long. You seem like an extremely caring & attentive mother.

As someone who has experienced bouts of depression, I definitely recommend that you & your daughter consider anti-depressants. They're not for everyone (& not even always for the same individual in different times & circumstances), but anti-depressants REALLY can help. At the right dosage & under the supervision of a trusted therapist & psychiatrist, they can give her the measure of detachment & emotional breathing room she needs to cope with her issues & not feel so overwhelmed -- without ruining her personality or turning her into a zombified Stepford teen.

The psychiatrist would also probably have you & your daughter simultaneously work with a behavioral therapist who can help her explore what triggers these negative feelings & help her develop positive strategies for coping with them & keeping them in perspective. Preferably the therapist (who she talks with) & the psychiatrist (who prescribes the meds) either work together or are the same person.

I also want you to know that I do not recommend anti-depressants or seeing a psychiatrist (rather than a therapist) lightly. It's a tough decision & psychiatrists are danged expensive & often not covered by insurance (assuming you even have any). I just get the impression that you've already TRIED just about everything else & are willing to explore any option that may help your daughter.

If you decide to explore anti-depressants further, make sure that you're working with a psychiatrist & therapist that can work well together & whom you ABSOLUTELY TRUST. Interview them extensively & choose ones you feel really good about, even if they're not on your insurance & you have to pay out of pocket. They really need to be compatible with both you & your daughter, have similar views on parenting & life, & be highly respectful of your strong reluctance towards using anti-depressants except as a last resort.

If you & your daughter do choose to try anti-depressants, please also keep in mind that she doesn't have to take them forever. Successful treatment & therapy often enable people to recognize symptoms of depression sooner & deal with them before they get out of hand so they don't need to take medications. Also, just so you know, the psychiatrist would also probably initially try a very low dose of Prozac (or the generic equivalent, Fluoxetine), track her progress, & have her meet with her therapist once a week. If necessary, the dosage would gradually increase to the "right" amount.

Fluoxetine has been around for a long time & has proven safe & effective for most patients. And -- unlike St. Johnswort/SAME (which I've tried in the past) -- it's been extensively tested & approved by the FDA. As far as I know, Fluoxetine does not have any permanent effects. If it doesn't work out, your daughter can stop taking it & it'll clear from her system quickly.

Also, part of me can't blame your daughter for feeling depressed. It seems like a perfectly rational response to what's going on in the world as well as the myriad pressures she probably faces with her peers & school. It's a danged shame that your daughter's world isn't a more congenial place for her & (undoubtedly) so many of her peers. At least -- thanks to your commitment -- she'll emerge from this with the tools she needs to be happy & succeed in life.

Good luck & PLEASE post an update in the future so we know how your daughter's doing.

-- Elisabeth

Looking for any advice as I consider the possibility of anti-depressants for my 17 yr. old. She's been in talk therapy for 3 years which has helped somewhat. Also tried a combination of St. John's Wort, SAM E and Fish oil for a month but that didn't seem to make a difference. I suspect that she's mildly to moderately depressed. Will be taking her for a psychiatric eval. to get a clearer diagnosis.
We're at a crossroads and I'm nervous about making the right decision.
Any advice from other parents or professionals with direct experience will be appreciated.

[Icssoma]

wi agree wholeheartly with elisabeth. her advice is excellent. she said much of what i said in a succint manner. I had limited time, and felt like i wouldn't get back to this if i didn't address it now.
how wonderful it would have been to have had these discussions when we needed to medicate my son.
your daughter is more functional in the world, and i hope all of these very good and caring responses help. I have been moved by 2 of them. and i have been around the block, and wish my son had an easier diagnosis.
hopefully your daughter's will improve w. medication and therapy.
my son has. the pain, disruption to our lives, runs deep--the acceptance of his condition is aways off. some of that is good, because he can make incremental improvements that are important.
some feels like a form of denial. when people were sympathetic when my father died, or when i got cancer, I thought why don't i/why can't i get sympathy & support for the on going journey that is painful daily.
he is better. we are less isolated. 10 years ago, we would cry when we talked about our son. perhaps that has only changed in the last 6 or 7 years. who could imagine something you worked so hard for, would be so painful.]
i am taking joy in these caring thoughtful responses. promised someone i would post gratitude today...so will follow through.
thanks, too barry, for creating this forum.

As a mom, my heart goes out to you. It must feel awful to see your daughter having such a hard time for so long. You seem like an extremely caring & attentive mother.

As someone who has experienced bouts of depression, I definitely recommend that you & your daughter consider anti-depressants. They're not for everyone (& not even always for the same individual in different times & circumstances), but anti-depressants REALLY can help. At the right dosage & under the supervision of a trusted therapist & psychiatrist, they can give her the measure of detachment & emotional breathing room she needs to cope with her issues & not feel so overwhelmed -- without ruining her personality or turning her into a zombified Stepford teen.

The psychiatrist would also probably have you & your daughter simultaneously work with a behavioral therapist who can help her explore what triggers these negative feelings & help her develop positive strategies for coping with them & keeping them in perspective. Preferably the therapist (who she talks with) & the psychiatrist (who prescribes the meds) either work together or are the same person.

I also want you to know that I do not recommend anti-depressants or seeing a psychiatrist (rather than a therapist) lightly. It's a tough decision & psychiatrists are danged expensive & often not covered by insurance (assuming you even have any). I just get the impression that you've already TRIED just about everything else & are willing to explore any option that may help your daughter.

If you decide to explore anti-depressants further, make sure that you're working with a psychiatrist & therapist that can work well together & whom you ABSOLUTELY TRUST. Interview them extensively & choose ones you feel really good about, even if they're not on your insurance & you have to pay out of pocket. They really need to be compatible with both you & your daughter, have similar views on parenting & life, & be highly respectful of your strong reluctance towards using anti-depressants except as a last resort.

If you & your daughter do choose to try anti-depressants, please also keep in mind that she doesn't have to take them forever. Successful treatment & therapy often enable people to recognize symptoms of depression sooner & deal with them before they get out of hand so they don't need to take medications. Also, just so you know, the psychiatrist would also probably initially try a very low dose of Prozac (or the generic equivalent, Fluoxetine), track her progress, & have her meet with her therapist once a week. If necessary, the dosage would gradually increase to the "right" amount.

Fluoxetine has been around for a long time & has proven safe & effective for most patients. And -- unlike St. Johnswort/SAME (which I've tried in the past) -- it's been extensively tested & approved by the FDA. As far as I know, Fluoxetine does not have any permanent effects. If it doesn't work out, your daughter can stop taking it & it'll clear from her system quickly.

Also, part of me can't blame your daughter for feeling depressed. It seems like a perfectly rational response to what's going on in the world as well as the myriad pressures she probably faces with her peers & school. It's a danged shame that your daughter's world isn't a more congenial place for her & (undoubtedly) so many of her peers. At least -- thanks to your commitment -- she'll emerge from this with the tools she needs to be happy & succeed in life.

Good luck & PLEASE post an update in the future so we know how your daughter's doing.

-- Elisabeth

[BigRed]

I'm convinced what causes a great deal of depression is living life without any purpose. There's a wonderful book entitled "The Search for Meaning." Your teenager is here for a reason and the challenge for each of us is to find that reason, that purpose.

Also, Sam-e can be very effective but at 200 mg. does very little. It can be taken in dosages up to 1600 mg. (which is high.) Of course, it does take time to build up in the system. It should always be taken with some B-complex. Omega 3's too are wonderful, but again, in larger dosages.

[Thad]

Your teenager is here for a reason and the challenge for each of us is to
~ find that reason~ , that purpose.

to ~ find that reason~ has a completely different orientation than to ~create that reason ~.

If I tell you to go down that road and turn left when I meant right, that little word has such a big difference in outcome ?

I'm convinced what causes a great deal of depression is living life without any purpose. There's a wonderful book entitled "The Search for Meaning." Your teenager is here for a reason and the challenge for each of us is to find that reason, that purpose.

Also, Sam-e can be very effective but at 200 mg. does very little. It can be taken in dosages up to 1600 mg. (which is high.) Of course, it does take time to build up in the system. It should always be taken with some B-complex. Omega 3's too are wonderful, but again, in larger dosages.

[Icssoma]

this kind of post makes me nervous for someone who is suffering real/deep acute/chronic, situational (your family sues you, your special needs child is suicidal, you have cancer, and you just got out of the hospital and your dr. put you there because he was irresponsible and didn't prescribe antibiotics, so you underwent a hospitalization and 3 surgeries because he didn't pay attention). i had situational depression, "a slice of my life".

i also posted about being a cynical pollyanna earlier this week. i am passionate about social change work. before i went trick or treating for unicef. at six your concept of making the world a better place is radically different than in your teens, or any decade there after.

if one more person told me "god gave you this child because he knew you could give them what they needed", or you brought the cancer on by negative thinking, or any other crap...

life can be an amazing challenge. some, like my partner, slide through most everything (until they are the co-parent, and a great one of a special needs child.)

i hate the cliche "the world doesn't give you more than you can handle."(perhaps w.out crying, exercise, anti-depressants, therapy) & more.
ok, i laughed when i typed that. but in fact i believe "the world often gives some of us more than we can handle. some of us muddle through, struggle through, and some of us don't make it.

did you read the choices this father went through? do you know how painful it is when medication has never entered your mind until your child is suicidal at 5 ? And you are wondering, should i call that generous, sweet bach remedy person back, because nothing she did worked. she wanted to try more. how much experimenting is ok? when do we say, this didn't work and move on?

We all have different parenting techniques, different methods of restraints (how many people have had to put their child in a restraint daily? how many restraints do most parents know? I knew none before i needed to protect my son from hurting himself, hurting me, destroying our house.)
i had worked w. special needs children since i was a child. I established the lst children's program in a shelter for battered women & children, 1976, san francisco. thank god. i had advocated & worked with child abuse programs, and i had to work harder than i ever could imagine, from not acting on impulses, i understood child abuse in a way i never wanted to.

i am grateful, that i was fully indoctrinated in the cruelty of abuse, because i needed good habits and practices to over rule my frustrations and pain.

all the choices i have made to work to improve myself and the world weren't always the best. i did need, and still need, work on setting limits and more.

perhaps this father did need a higher dose of the alternative treatment. i am sceptical.
we tried fish oil, participated in the canadian study for bi-polar children, depressed people and other chemical imbalances (i know lst hand it was helpful for some with mild cases/disorders). we were dilligent with this for over six months, even after seeing no positive signs, and did we want them, placebos would have been welcomed!, we kept using them for another six months, though we weren't as disciplined, & somewhere in the second six months had dropped out of the study. (my son also hated it--believe me if we saw anything positive, and we were always hoping, looking, "maybeing", we would have tried it for another year.)
friends gave us powders, we made dietary changes, tho getting my son to eat before 9 years of age was tricky.

all of us that advocated traditional medicine said we arrived at these choices with exploration of other alternatives. all of us talked about finding a GOOD psychiatrist, & Good therapist. (that is a big job, in and of itself.)

most of us mentioned utilizing coping skills. charting onsets of depression, mood swings, etc. as well as observing other behaviors to look for keys to assist in better understanding clues and patterns to be open and be a partner in finding the best approaches to the mental illness.

thank god /goddess for good mental health practitioners. thank god for those who respect how difficult the path was to seek out this type of treatment (after suffering and trying 20 other 'alternative methods".)

those who have lived through these experiences ourselves, and with our children have much to say. none of us said "my child is sick" let's look into drugs. (almost all of us acknowledged that "over drugging" --making children 'easier to teach'-- and "under drugging" take place: look at those who have self medicated for years, if they are lucky, eventually go through 12 step programs, often in combination carefully advised use of medication.

my life has had enough purpose for 5 lives. i am proud of what i have accomplished.
the work of my life, if i am "lucky enough" to have other days is to integrate purpose w. limit setting, balance and time for me.

this father was REALLY STRUGGLING WITH THE NEXT STEP. NONE OF THESE STEPS ARE EASY, ALL OUR THOUGHTFUL.

my son would be dead or in jail without medication. our daily life takes lots of work. we are too very tired mom's. yes, i'd love to see acknowledgment for people who successfully put their life on hold to give the best quality of life possible for their special needs children.

when we talk about our difficulties w. our 13 year old daughter, we are always conscious, and often say "how easy, how wonderful, what an amazing gift to have a HEALTHY child. mentally and physically. the teen years were nothing comparitively with our son, because the hell that preceded them couldn't have been more painful.

i am so grateful to have a "normal child". there is a part of me that takes pleasure when she is more difficult for a day, than my 'special needs child'.

i am sure you mean well. your voice is important.

alternative therapies work in some situations. for many of us in other situations. no alternative therapies worked for us. we wish they would have. no wishing, praying, positive visualization did not change how effective therapies were or were not with my son.
we were torturted by poorly informed mental health professionals who believed our son's problems were because we were not carrying out "their behavior modification program at home." i stopped going to the sessions. my partner was more tolerant, we thought we needed to be a part of that system. (a better part of that system, that particular program had more sick administrators & practitioners than good ones. the good ones kept us going. we didn't know much enough about the mental health system and how it interfaced with the county's system of mental health. my son was never "healthy enough to go to a traditional public/private school". our attempts were short lived mistakes and painful. hope does spring up for quite awhile on each path.

I sited my battle with menopause. finally my beloved acupuncturist, carol fusco (practiced out of san francisco) supported me in looking into traditional treatments. i would have tried them sooner, if i had traveled in a community where support existed for hormone replacement therapy. (yes i used the synthetic form. my conscious choices would not allow me to use medicine made through abuse of horses. and speaking out assisted improving the treatment of those horses.)

many well meaning people kept us off the path we needed to travel to survive, and have our son survive, and be somewhat functional, and make small contributions to the world.

some of us, who live out side the mainstream, need support for making mainstream choices.

i'm sure your posting was with thought and care.
i would have let it be, if so many messages similar to yours, kept us looking for alternative treatments while the path we needed to be on was with medications that were only available through a psychiatrist. we could have eased our families pain sooner. i don't want that for someone else who has been diligent in researching and trying paths that have not been helpful for his daughter.

anti-depressants, mood stabilizers, hormones for menopause, do not make one's life EASY, they give us the ability to face the joy, pain and difficulties of living in this world.

one more non-edited off the cuff response. someday i will have time to re-read these postings and correct the many mistakes. thanks for baring with me.
with appreciation for all the wonderful responses to this thread that touched significant chords.
susan jan

Your teenager is here for a reason and the challenge for each of us is to
~ find that reason~ , that purpose.

to ~ find that reason~ has a completely different orientation than to ~create that reason ~.

If I tell you to go down that road and turn left when I meant right, that little word has such a big difference in outcome ?

[notsomuch]

this kind of post makes me nervous for someone who is suffering real/deep acute/chronic, situational ...

I think this is why no single piece of advice should be considered complete, and that's why I don't particularly like the "alternative" label since it implies one in exclusion of something else. Likewise I don't think we know enough to really have an integratED medicine, even if it can kind of move toward an integratIVE direction. Often it seems the professionals don't really know much more than we do, and it's just a matter of trial and error and so we plug along and do the best we can.

It kind of goes back to the topic of conscious community really, I mean it isn't like a category of thoughts we all believe in would be classified as conscious, (actually it's more likely to be unconscious if it's just kind of group think) and you take that side and the others are automatically unconscious, but clearly an awareness of all the details of the particular situation is needed to have a good understanding of what's most appropriate. Unfortunately the individuals clarity is compromised in these kinds of situations, hopefully there can be community support in that regard in that situation.

[Icssoma]

[quote=Icssoma;104694]i fully agree with you, conscious, unconscious, left and right, all labels, all need discussion.
i am saying in dealing w. these issues, and being a progressive, social activist, one (I, my partner, my friends) consistently get advice that is "alternative" and more unproven than what you are using, which stops the night terrors, & the suicide attempts.
as a parent who has walked this line for 17 years, and tried to support other parents, all respondents, w. the exception of one person who talked about his use of anti-depressents, spoke of the arduos, painful and thoughtful path of making the hard decision to look at things (traditional medicines used in psychiatry) that we had NEVER CONSIDERED. It was hard, it is hard.
That is why i discussed initially seeing a child nuerolgist in santa rosa w. great credentials and good referrals. SHE WAS ONLY ABLE TO TREAT CHILDREN who responded well to typical adhd & add drugs, & those people were giving her positive referrals.
our experience is she was an assembly line doctor, who was making a lot of $, with questionalbe diagnoses, and was not knowledgable about drugs.

I could write a page on how to pick a child psychiatrist, as i talked about that journery. Two jerks, one well intentioned, not up to date person, a fourth that was on the right path, but we went through hell, I MEAN six months of hell finding a drug match, and finally a fifth psychiatrist that was out of med school just long enough to be current on the drugs, literature, and close enough to the top people in the field to have the best information. Even then, with Dr. Leipsic, we had lots of adjustments, lots of tweaking and some out right failures. (The drugs worked great in terms of mood stabilization, but after two months my waif child had gained a 1/3 of his body weight with no signs of stopping. the pain from being full had to be greater than the message the respirdal (sp?) was sending that said "eat, eat". the irony, is we were so thrilled that our pale and underweight child finally had an interest in food.

I think that most of the posts that are advocating anti-depressents have taken a long, thoughtful and pain filled path to arrive at that decision. No one was looking for a "quick fix".

This is a very complex subject. I could write extensive posts on 20 topics and not begin to really cover my experience/our experience.

I do know that we have said since my son was 8/9 that a condition of living at home was to continue to take his medications. (many of you may know bi-polar people who stop taking medications when they are "manic" as they "feel good". the cycle is dangerous, and many of these people end up as homeless, a good part of our jail population are untreated mentally ill people.

i am a huge advocate of radical changes in the medical field. i talked about the horrors of a doctor not prescribing anti-biotics when it is a standard perscription for a "crush injury".

i discussed my hatred of hospitals and lack of prevention oriented approaches.

i have discussed how many young children have been over medicated, or criticized, or punished because they couldn't sit still in their seats.

i talked about my connection with the waldorf community and the love of much of what it says about education, and yes there are many problems in waldorf schools, your education is only as good as your teacher/the administration. but the beauty and wholistic approach and embracing creativity, is such a tremendous base to build on. ok i'm tired. i'm feeling defensive. i feel each post must be countered by a non-traditional medicine approach. THE POINT IS THE FATHER TRIED THAT, LIKE MANY OF US AND NONE OF THOSE APPROACHES WORKED.

i can hold my own with most on this topic. sometimes i space out when we see the psychiatrist, but then my partner (& hopefully my son) are paying attention. most visits in the lst 10 years, i was riveted with how the brain works, what causes "hair trigger reactions", how pathways & ruts are developed in the brain, how early good treatment can minimize these pathways, re-direct them, form new ones.

and bi-polar disorder is not usually treated with anit-depressents, but rather with mood stablizers and in our son's case 12mg. of zoloft (a dash of the generic--and i could go off on how pziser got a pass to extend their patten so cost effective generics were delayed almost for two years, and when they were available they weren't cost effective for six months because of this "sweetheart deal"--but that isn't the topic) primarily w. depacote (mood stablilizer, many having come from the treatment of epilepsy and similar conditions) and abilify, very expensive!

perhaps if i come from a place of knowledge as opposed to less valued "personal experience" (usually it works the other way in west county--yes i love and feel privelaged to live here, wish it was less white, major complaint--pleassseee not another thread on this)!!!

i'm sure i'm upsetting people with my rants. speaking the truth from of base of knowledge is threatening(--just check out our country.)

what i really really want to do is spare another parent some of my pain, some of my hell, perhaps more sleep, because, then other wise what value is all that we have gone through.

I have wished, prayed, made deals with all sorts of stars, god/gods/godesses, alternative worlds. I have spoke of my difficulty with acceptance of my son's illness (again, a work in progress.) I would go through chemotherapy again and again to make my son whole, but such deals aren't available. i've offered bigger prizes.

what i can do is to continue to be the best parent i know how to be, (and i haven't hit perfection for an entire day, yes that made me chuckle--13 more posts) expand my sons horizons as much as possible (he has four severe learning disabilities, and is pretty much a non-reader, barely coming into acceptance with that, but i'm letting other good souls address that.

a good doctor tells you all of the things you talked about. i not saying that alternative medicined doesn't have a place.
i'm saying when you start there and try those approaches and in our case, a year or two later, the avoidance of traditional good psychiatrists is foolish. it is difficult to find good practioners in any field. excellence tends to surround itself with excellence.

each of us have different needs, not all excellent doctors or excellent teachers are a match for everyone.

i am grateful for having found a good caring psychiatrist who is staying with us past the "child years".

many years ago we decided to try to make our son's life one of quality. only with traditional medications, a team, a great therapist, good mental health professionals, a handful of real friends, have we even approached that.

I have a sense that the father that had the smarts to make the original post is trying to sort all this out. i have heard a push from those of us who have walked in those shoes, that REAL DEPRESSION (we have covered that pretty fully) usually at least temporarily, or for life, needs real medication.

most of us advocated for a team of good professionals, therapist & psychiatrist, and self-monitoring/parent monitoring, charting cycles, and looking for different approaches simulataneously.

believe me, i wish i knew less.

i have digressed much. forgive me. my last digression, hopefully my last post, but an opportunity to educate. (as there were times when we were grateful for "ticks", as at least people wouldn't accuse us of bad parenting).
here goes. this could be like proposing to change the name of wacco. i stayed out of that one.

untreated, people who suffer from bi-polar disorder, especially the severe end of the spectrum, and like wise with depression: there is a wide spectrum! many untreated children/people with bipolar disorder don't wake up from nightmares before the car goes off the cliff, before the bear eats them, before they arrive at their finals without their clothes on, people who suffer from severe bi-polar disorder, have night terrors that don't end at 3 or 4 or 5, but go off the cliff, get eaten, etc. until medication changes that chemistry in the brain that controls that function during dreaming.

btw, there are something like 30 posts to this parent, hardly a one approach fits all. obviously many people, myself included, have not felt heard or acknowledged regarding these issues.

this forum was theraputic. i would not have had the luxury of this time two years ago, no matter how driven, this early in the day.


sincerely sweet dreams for all who can dream, and to all a good
nite.

[localsupporter]

The real question is...why would you ask this on your local community forum...


Talk to your doctor.

And try and decide if its highschool related...tough place these days. You shouldnt put a teen on any medication unless they are REALLY in need.

Most young girls cut themselves these days, its a fad.

but if they are a serious risk to themselves and mean to do serious harm to themselves...there is no alternative. Medication. Otherwise, it's best for her to develope her own way of not being deppressed so she doesnt have to take pills for the rest of her life.

Its like all those mothers and fathers who have their kids on adderol, and dont know that their children are usually just distrubuting their pills at school all day. Great for tests, staying awake all night studing, and more....

People use many anti psychotics as drugs...anti deppression meds too...just not a smart thing to put in the hands of a 17 year old. Or even have around a 17 year old. Empty out those old vicoden and oxycottin pills into the garbage now if you have kids...and didnt realize how they like to experiment. Also you never know, her deppression could be drug related...no matter how well you think you know what she does when shes at "amy's" house.


And if you got her locked up and know what shes doing at all times, THERE IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM!

[RussianRiverRattina]

Local supporter, perhaps your post came across the wrong way, but I've gotta admit that if I were a cat, I would hiss at you. I hope you'll apologize to Amalia for your insensitive statements.

WHY would Amalia "ask this on your local community forum"? Because she wants advice, perspectives & support from a broad spectrum of people. Duh. That's what online communities are for.

As for your statement, "most young girls cut themselves these days, it's a fad" ... First of all, did I miss something? I don't recall Amalia saying anything about her daughter cutting herself. But the fact is, cutting is NOT a "fad" like wearing pajama pants as real pants. Cutting is dangerous! A lot of girls might be doing it, but I assure you that these girls are seriously in need of help.

I do agree with what you say about high school being tough these days. Alas, that's a whole new topic.

About the thing you said about Adderol ... Adderol is for ADD/ADHD, not depression. I assure you that anti-depressants will not be the recreational drug of choice for Amalia's daughter's peers.

Finally, Amalia never said anything about locking her daughter up. Where's all this stuff coming from?

The real question is...why would you ask this on your local community forum...


Talk to your doctor.

And try and decide if its highschool related...tough place these days. You shouldnt put a teen on any medication unless they are REALLY in need.

Most young girls cut themselves these days, its a fad.

but if they are a serious risk to themselves and mean to do serious harm to themselves...there is no alternative. Medication. Otherwise, it's best for her to develope her own way of not being deppressed so she doesnt have to take pills for the rest of her life.

Its like all those mothers and fathers who have their kids on adderol, and dont know that their children are usually just distrubuting their pills at school all day. Great for tests, staying awake all night studing, and more....

People use many anti psychotics as drugs...anti deppression meds too...just not a smart thing to put in the hands of a 17 year old. Or even have around a 17 year old. Empty out those old vicoden and oxycottin pills into the garbage now if you have kids...and didnt realize how they like to experiment. Also you never know, her deppression could be drug related...no matter how well you think you know what she does when shes at "amy's" house.


And if you got her locked up and know what shes doing at all times, THERE IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM!

[Icssoma]

no use repeating the great points that russian river ratina made. thanks for saving me the time, and for a clear thoughtful response. when i read this recent post i felt frustration and anger.
it is a clear that there is a tremendous amount of education that needs to be addressed regarding mental heath, medications, psychiatrists, and other issues that are directly a part of the disconnect separating "mental health" and physical health.
this forum has given "amalia" much good information, and a little baggage to sort through. most of the postings have been thoughtful.
thrilled to be able to tell my story hoping the information may help others avoid some of the steps, some of the pain and some of the struggles my family & I have endured.
the post below only reinforces the need for forums, news coverage, paper coverage, media education, and much more.
this is a complex issue that few, that haven't experienced it directly, fully understand.
glad that "amalia" asked. grateful for so many informative responses. appreciative that this dialog has been started.
this issue is so complex. it is rarely given the value or importance it deserves.
addressing mental health could make major needed changes in this society. we need to address it. after so much horrible government, an absurd war, and no money, we won't.
this is a social change issue where we are in the ice age. it effects millions. it should be on the forefront as many disfunctional servicemen and women are coming home and are unable to get help (over 800,000 waiting for "processing"), and numbers growing daily.
the largest prison population in an industrialized nation--addressing mental health would not only deminish the prison population, but get people help they need in a more cost effective method over time.
so much misunderstanding, so much ignorance, and with the horrible financial conditions mental health will be "back burnered" again.
thank you amailia for your post, that started this much needed discussion.

The real question is...why would you ask this on your local community forum...


Talk to your doctor.

And try and decide if its highschool related...tough place these days. You shouldnt put a teen on any medication unless they are REALLY in need.

Most young girls cut themselves these days, its a fad.

but if they are a serious risk to themselves and mean to do serious harm to themselves...there is no alternative. Medication. Otherwise, it's best for her to develope her own way of not being deppressed so she doesnt have to take pills for the rest of her life.

Its like all those mothers and fathers who have their kids on adderol, and dont know that their children are usually just distrubuting their pills at school all day. Great for tests, staying awake all night studing, and more....

People use many anti psychotics as drugs...anti deppression meds too...just not a smart thing to put in the hands of a 17 year old. Or even have around a 17 year old. Empty out those old vicoden and oxycottin pills into the garbage now if you have kids...and didnt realize how they like to experiment. Also you never know, her deppression could be drug related...no matter how well you think you know what she does when shes at "amy's" house.


And if you got her locked up and know what shes doing at all times, THERE IS YOUR REAL PROBLEM!