"One Shot, 2 Kills" - Israeli Snipers Celebrate Shooting Pregnant Women

[Hot Compost]

Israeli Boy Snipers Think Killing Civilians is Very Cool.

So cool they make T-shirts about it - echoing the sentiments of their senior commanders & religious leaders.

https://www.haaretz.com/hasite/image...shot2kills.jpg

/\ link to picture of T-shirt designed by Israeli sniper

\/ article in Haaretz
Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 - Haaretz - Israel News

"Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009"

Young Israeli boy-soldiers revel in the joy of killing Muslims. Amazing.

Imagine if a Muslim wore a shirt with an image of a Pregnant Jewish woman. Or if a white supremacist wore a shirt with a picture of a pregnant African American women. And the same caption, "one shot, 2 kills". I dare say such behavior would be considered 100% not acceptable.

The Israeli boy-soldiers also celebrate the raping of Palestinian women -

"For example, the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!" "

No wonder the Israeli Defense Forces don't like human rights observers to watch them when they're making war.

[MsTerry]

Israeli Soldiers Allege Indiscriminate Killing in Gaza

By TIM MCGIRK / JERUSALEM Tim Mcgirk / Jerusalem Sat Mar 21, 3:35 am ET
Whenever concerns are expressed over civilian casualties inflicted in Israeli military operations, the country's generals and political leaders are quick to insist that theirs is the "world's most moral army." That claim was challenged by human rights observers over Israel's recent offensive in Gaza, although such criticism is reflexively dismissed by Israel as driven by pro-Palestinian bias. But when the allegations of abuses come from Israeli soldiers involved in the fighting, they can't be as easily dismissed.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak was forced to repeat the "world's most moral army" mantra on Thursday, this time to reassure his own countrymen shocked by allegations published in the Israeli media from six veterans of the Gaza operation. The six soldiers, whose identity is being kept confidential, made their claims in an address last month to cadets of the Yitzhak Rabin military academy, of which they are graduates. Among other claims, the soldiers alleged that an Israeli sniper had shot a woman and her two children who walked in the wrong direction after being ordered out of their home by Israeli troops. In a second incident, a sniper supposedly killed an unarmed elderly woman who posed no apparent threat to Israeli troops. And the soldiers ascribed these incidents to overly permissive rules of engagement. See pictures of Israel's Gaza offensive)
"I simply felt it was murder in cold blood, said the soldier who witnessed the scene, quoted in the daily Haaretz. He went on to explain sarcastically, "That's what is so nice, supposedly about Gaza. You see a person waking on a road... He doesn't have to be with a weapon, you don't have to identify him with anything and you can just shoot him. With us it was an old woman on whom I didn't see any weapon. The order was to take that woman out, the moment you see her."
After the anonymous soldiers' testimony was splashed across the media in Israel and abroad, the military police on Thursday said it would investigate the alleged killings. Their allegations renewed an ongoing debate between Israelis who defend the Gaza assault and those who say it failed to accomplish its goal of crippling Hamas, but stained Israel's reputation. On Friday, an Israeli Defense Forces spokesman dismissed claims of the gunning down of the mother and her two children as "heresay", but said that the account of the elderly woman's death was still being probed. But those were just two of the incidents alleged by the six soldiers.
Human rights investigators suggest that what the soldiers' allegations and eyewitness accounts from Gaza residents suggest is that, in an effort to maximize the safety of their own soldiers entering Gaza, Israeli commanders may have let their ethical standards slide. Retired general and former security chief Ami Ayalon concurs. The Gaza operation, says Ayalon, "compromised the I.D.F.'s ethos, which was once built on ethics, sacrifice. And today, after the Gaza offensive, it is based on force alone."
A soldier identified as Aviv from the Givati Brigade, one of Israel's elite combat units, reportedly described to the military cadets his inner conflict over obeying orders to use indiscriminate firepower while clearing out an eight-story apartment building. "We were supposed to ... burst through the lower door, start shooting inside and then ... I call this murder... in effect, we were supposed to go up floor by floor, and any person we identified, we were supposed to shoot. I initially asked myself: Where is the logic in this?"
Aviv explained that his commanders had blurred the boundaries between combatants and civilians: "From [the officers] above, they said it was permissible, because anyone who remained ...inside Gaza City was, in effect, incriminated, a terrorist, because they hadn't fled," Aviv alleged. "On one hand, they really don't have anywhere to flee to, but on the other hand [the officers] are telling us they hadn't fled so it's their fault." Faced with having to slay the 40 families cowering in the building, he was able to persuade his superiors to let him warn the tenants, giving them five minutes to leave or "get killed."
In the Israeli military offensive, 1,434 Palestinians, including 960 civilians, were killed, according to the Palestinian Human Rights Center in Gaza. Three Israeli civilians were killed in the course of the same operation, and 10 soldiers, four of them by friendly fire. The lopsided death toll, and the fact that so many civilians were killed, has drawn fierce criticism of Israel's by human rights agencies in Israel and abroad. And the consequences could extend from the political to the legal realm.
U.N. human rights envoy Falk said that Israel's apparent failure to distinguish between military targets and civilians could "constitute a war crime of the greatest magnitude under international law." He also said that rocket fire by Palestinian militants that indiscriminately targeted Israeli towns could also constitute a war crime, and urged the establishment of an independent commission to investigate the actions of both sides during the recent conflict. With mounting pressure at home and abroad to account for the high Palestinian civilian death toll in Gaza, Israel's claim to have "the world's most moral army" is likely to be subjected to the test of evidence in the months ahead.
- With reporting by Aaron J. Klein/Tel Aviv

[Hot Compost]

Israeli Soldiers Allege Indiscriminate Killing in GazaWith mounting pressure at home and abroad to account for the high Palestinian civilian death toll in Gaza, Israel's claim to have "the world's most moral army" is likely to be subjected to the test of evidence in the months ahead.
- With reporting by Aaron J. Klein/Tel Aviv

in most parts of the United States, anybody who walked around with a shirt with an image of a pregnant woman, and the same caption - "1 shot, 2 kills" - would be ostracized by their family & their friends. they might even be reported to the police.

as far as i can tell, this is not just an example of a young Israeli man with extraordinarily poor taste in T-shirts.

it's an illustration of what is acceptable in Israeli culture.

i've never witnessed racism like this before.

["Mad" Miles]

[quote=Hot Compost;85554]as far as i can tell, this is not just an example of a young Israeli man with extraordinarily poor taste in T-shirts.

it's an illustration of what is acceptable in Israeli culture.

quote]

Hot Compost and Ms Terry,

In general we agree about the injustices and excrescencies of Israeli policy towards the Palestinian Arabs. See a previous thread on wacco following the most recent Gaza slaughter.

But the version of this article from Ha'aretz that I read made it clear that the T-Shirts were generally worn in private or at gatherings of like-minded service members and their immediate families. They are not worn "out in public". In fact quotes stated that the owners did not dare to do so.

Now, is there an irrational bunker mentality in Israeli culture that justifies the most horrific acts as self-defense? Evidently. Just read the letters to the PD in response to anyone who dares question the self-defense justification for war crimes.

But, for the record, the juvenile sick fantasies of indiscriminate slaughter depicted on these T-Shirts, are still things kept relatively private.

And be sure, American (U.S.) military units have similar items in their personal media. (T-Shirts, Tatoos, Music, Posters, etc.)

It's something that is endemic in war culture. The stories from Vietnam are enough to sicken even the hardest hearted.

When you send a bunch of adolescent males (and nowadays females) out to kill wholesale with state of the art weaponry, they tend to handle the psychological stress by celebrating the ugliest of acts.

At least some do.

Others become "Winter Soldiers".

"Mad" Miles

[MsTerry]

MM

I understand your point that all wars have excesses, and bad apples and criminals.
This case is a little different.
Israel doesn't call the military an army, NO, it is a DEFENSE force.
Just that little bit of propaganda in what they call soldiers, sets them apart.
Even though they are the aggressors, they like to be portrayed as people defending themselves.
They claim the moral high ground, but stoop to the lowest of the low.
Their crimes are government sanctioned and will be defended by and for the government of Israel.

Hot Compost and Ms Terry,

But, for the record, the juvenile sick fantasies of indiscriminate slaughter depicted on these T-Shirts, are still things kept relatively private.

And be sure, American (U.S.) military units have similar items in their personal media. (T-Shirts, Tatoos, Music, Posters, etc.)

It's something that is endemic in war culture. The stories from Vietnam are enough to sicken even the hardest hearted.

When you send a bunch of adolescent males (and nowadays females) out to kill wholesale with state of the art weaponry, they tend to handle the psychological stress by celebrating the ugliest of acts.

At least some do.

Others become "Winter Soldiers".

"Mad" Miles

[Imagery]

in most parts of the United States, anybody who walked around with a shirt with an image of a pregnant woman, and the same caption - "1 shot, 2 kills" - would be ostracized by their family & their friends. they might even be reported to the police.

as far as i can tell, this is not just an example of a young Israeli man with extraordinarily poor taste in T-shirts.

it's an illustration of what is acceptable in Israeli culture.

i've never witnessed racism like this before.

Perhaps you should try going over and visiting that part of the world. Try shopping at the open air markets where the Palestinian guerillas have people walk in and blow themselves up just so they can kill innocent civilians. Oh, and I'm certain you're not old enough to have witnessed it, but perhaps you can read about racism:

Racism

Oh, and if you're one of the imbeciles who believes that the above link didn't really happen? Just ask a German citizen - because in Germany, denying that it happened is a criminal offense.

[natalie]

This is one of the worst things I have ever seen. I am Jewish and I can tell you that if anyone I knew wore a shirt like this I would NEVER speak to them again, neither would anyone I know. This is abhorrent and uncivilized, and in fact, almost unbelievable to me!

Israeli Boy Snipers Think Killing Civilians is Very Cool.

So cool they make T-shirts about it - echoing the sentiments of their senior commanders & religious leaders.

https://www.haaretz.com/hasite/image...shot2kills.jpg

/\ link to picture of T-shirt designed by Israeli sniper

\/ article in Haaretz
Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 - Haaretz - Israel News

"Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009"

Young Israeli boy-soldiers revel in the joy of killing Muslims. Amazing.

Imagine if a Muslim wore a shirt with an image of a Pregnant Jewish woman. Or if a white supremacist wore a shirt with a picture of a pregnant African American women. And the same caption, "one shot, 2 kills". I dare say such behavior would be considered 100% not acceptable.

The Israeli boy-soldiers also celebrate the raping of Palestinian women -

"For example, the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!" "

No wonder the Israeli Defense Forces don't like human rights observers to watch them when they're making war.

["Mad" Miles]

War creates horrors and bestiality. This has been documented for millennia. Not to excuse the behavior of members of the IDF.

But I'm wondering. The original thread is almost two years old. Why are you, Imagery and Natalie, reviving it now? Aren't there many more immediate horrors to vituperate about?

Not that the Israeli occupation/internment of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem aren't current events. They are, unfortunately, and on steroids.

Imagery, your tendency to call for a mob response to local outrages, on the one hand, and your defense of Israeli atrocities, admittedly provoked but it's a long, complex and tragic history that isn't easy to encapsulate into simple positions, on the other hand, really disturbs me.

I hope you never have any power over others. Because constantly calling for revenge, exclusion and extreme sanctions, is not the way to social justice. Communication, mediation, compromise and restorative justice are.

I make adjustments for youth. I was once in my twenties and knew the answers and had great rage. I still do. But I don't assume that the best response is emotional and vindictive. And I don't assume I know everything and am right. (Even though I do and I am! Hah!)

Life is complicated and I start from the assumption that I may be wrong and there are always other sides to the story. Your vengeful moral certainty, is the basis of what I understand to be the source of much of the injustice over the long violent history of humanity.

Cool your jets kiddo! Take a breath. Look around. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Love conquers all. Or at least it should!

[natalie]

Well, first, I didn't realize the thread was two years old or I wouldn't have responded; however, given that I now have responded and have been accused by Mad Miles of "vengeful moral certainty" I have to respond. Love makes the world go round, and yet being disgusted by this repulsive display of racism worthy of the worst kind of Nazi shouldn't be criticized. I find your response, Madmiles to be condescending at best. It is not youth that causes me to hate racism. It is history. The rationale that all wars breed this filth takes nothing away from this incident. When I opened up the thread and saw that t-shirt I had a physical response to it. How can anyone not?

I do apologize, however, for responding to an old thread. I am kind of new to this board and don't know all the ins and outs of it.

War creates horrors and bestiality. This has been documented for millennia. Not to excuse the behavior of members of the IDF.

But I'm wondering. The original thread is almost two years old. Why are you, Imagery and Natalie, reviving it now? Aren't there many more immediate horrors to vituperate about?

Not that the Israeli occupation/internment of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem aren't current events. They are, unfortunately, and on steroids.

Imagery, your tendency to call for a mob response to local outrages, on the one hand, and your defense of Israeli atrocities, admittedly provoked but it's a long, complex and tragic history that isn't easy to encapsulate into simple positions, on the other hand, really disturbs me.

I hope you never have any power over others. Because constantly calling for revenge, exclusion and extreme sanctions, is not the way to social justice. Communication, mediation, compromise and restorative justice are.

I make adjustments for youth. I was once in my twenties and knew the answers and had great rage. I still do. But I don't assume that the best response is emotional and vindictive. And I don't assume I know everything and am right. (Even though I do and I am! Hah!)

Life is complicated and I start from the assumption that I may be wrong and there are always other sides to the story. Your vengeful moral certainty, is the basis of what I understand to be the source of much of the injustice over the long violent history of humanity.

Cool your jets kiddo! Take a breath. Look around. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Love conquers all. Or at least it should!

[Gene]

This is nothing more than hate mongering I really am shocked to see from a community of intelligent, aware people. The references of supposed facts are from organizations that deny the holocaust. This is nothing but hate and I am embarrassed it even appears on Wacco.
I have read that the real interpretation of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is "Thou Shalt Not Murder". There is no excuse possible for this behavior if it is true. No religion or nation has a monopoly on evil or darkness and none are immune. It is only by carrying the light that we can fight it.

P.S. It's funny I was just taking a break from a movie on netflix when I stumbled across this.
The movie is called the "Infidel". It's about a devout Muslim living in the U.K. who just found out that he was adopted and his birth parents were Jewish. I'm about half way through and lovin it.

Jews for Jesus in the hear and now with no possessions and a love for Allah.

Toward the One- Love and Peace, Gene

["Mad" Miles]

Natalie,

The bulk of my post was a response to Imagery, not you. The only comment I made that applied to you was when I asked why an old thread was being revived. Sorry for the confusion. In spite of my lack of clarity, I find your comments to be very reasonable and touching. And along the lines of my own thinking. If you read the entire thread and my comments on it when it was fresh, you'll see evidence for my claim that we're on the same page. Sorry again for the confusion.

[Imagery]

Well, since you asked, Mr. Miles - I replied to this thread after stumbling upon it when I clicked on a "related threads" link down in the lower left hand corner of the thread page. I'll do my best not to make that mistake again...

As far as my tendencies, perhaps sometimes they're a little heavy-handed, but it's obvious that the "nice guy" approach doesn't always work. Look in the thread about Efren "Asphalt" Carillo for example. I've mentioned looking at the idea of a recall or ouster of a charlatan who pretends to be pro-environment, then listens to the jingle of the big businesses who finance him when it comes to making decisions about the West County. I'll freely admit to that. That is an expression of my opinion, which is currently disgust with the vast majority of politicians, who are either knowingly or unknowingly helping to create a two-class system.

On another note, WHERE, oh please point it out to me WHERE do I defend any Israeli atrocities? The stories do come from both sides, and honestly it upsets me that both sides can't simply end the conflict.

I've responded, but in the interest of letting this thread go back to where it came from, I'll simply turn off the notifications and let it settle back into the archives. Oh, and I'll make sure that I don't bother looking at the "related threads" box anymore, because obviously it disturbs the regulars around here.