Sign Up For Gaza

[MsTerry]

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Stop the violence in Gaza
Stop the violence in Gaza
Stop the violence in Gaza


Sign our petition to demand that the United States intervene to bring about an immediate resumption of the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.

We're already using the petition numbers in conversations with President-elect Obama's transition team and Congressional leaders - the more we can gather, the better we can make our case for an immediate ceasefire. So sign today!

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[MsTerry]

	Palestine loss of land 1946-2000 Any word from Obama on the wholesale slaughter yet?

[The Math Tutor]

Take Action | J Street

Stop the violence in Gaza
Stop the violence in Gaza
Stop the violence in Gaza


Sign our petition to demand that the United States intervene to bring about an immediate resumption of the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.

We're already using the petition numbers in conversations with President-elect Obama's transition team and Congressional leaders - the more we can gather, the better we can make our case for an immediate ceasefire. So sign today!

Take Action | J Street

How is that all of you bleeding hearts don't have a petition to halt the rocket attacks and suicide bombers against Israel? What makes you think it's right that the US intervene in the affairs of others when we've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we can't manage our own? If you have so little common sense, you should run for Congress.

[MsTerry]

I am glad to see that you teach math.
Q; What is the likelyhood (percentage wise) that someone will get killed from
a) an israeli rocket
b) a Hamas rocket

How is that all of you bleeding hearts don't have a petition to halt the rocket attacks and suicide bombers against Israel? What makes you think it's right that the US intervene in the affairs of others when we've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we can't manage our own? If you have so little common sense, you should run for Congress.

[The Math Tutor]

I am glad to see that you teach math.
Q; What is the likelyhood (percentage wise) that someone will get killed from
a) an israeli rocket
b) a Hamas rocket

a) = 100%, b) = very low, but that really isn't the point is it? I really don't want to start an email fight with you, as I'd like to see an outbreak of peace also. What I'd also like to see is common sense and fairness. I agree that it's terrible that so many school children and civilians are dying, but doesn't anyone pause to think why military targets are located in population centers?

Our founding fathers (sorry about no mothers) talked about inalienable rights. Those rights should exist for all human beings. Don't the Israelis have a right to life? Why do they have to constantly fight just to live? I'm passionate about this subject because I still remember seeing, as a young boy, little blue numbers tatooed on the arms of relatives who came to this country just after WWII.

I agree with you that intervention is called for, but it should come from the UN, not the US. If you want to be personally involved put less OPEC oil into your car, since that's where the financing for the terrorists come from.

If you'd come up with a sensible, fair petition I would be more than glad to join you in signing it.

[MsTerry]

, but doesn't anyone pause to think why military targets are located in population centers?

This is a good question, unfortunately I don't think you will like the answer.
THE PALESTINIANS DON'T HAVE AN ARMY!
They don't have an aircraft defense system (that is why it is so cowardly to drop bombs from above), they don't have tanks, they don't have navy ships and they don't have the right to bear arms to defend themselves (according to the occupying Israeli force)

Our founding fathers (sorry about no mothers) talked about inalienable rights. Those rights should exist for all human beings. Don't the Israelis have a right to life?

Do the Israeli's have the right to keep a population prisoner while taking away their homes, their orchards and kill their children?

Why do they have to constantly fight just to live?

What has been taken away from the Israelis?

I'm passionate about this subject because I still remember seeing, as a young boy, little blue numbers tatooed on the arms of relatives who came to this country just after WWII.

The holocaust doesn't justify imprisoning and starving to death the Palestinians. Who by the way are now required to have special ID's to move around their land

I agree with you that intervention is called for, but it should come from the UN, not the US.

Israel does not follow UN orders

If you'd come up with a sensible, fair petition I would be more than glad to join you in signing it

Would this be your fairness or mine?

[The Math Tutor]

This is a good question, unfortunately I don't think you will like the answer.
THE PALESTINIANS DON'T HAVE AN ARMY!
They don't have an aircraft defense system (that is why it is so cowardly to drop bombs from above), they don't have tanks, they don't have navy ships and they don't have the right to bear arms to defend themselves (according to the occupying Israeli force)
Do the Israeli's have the right to keep a population prisoner while taking away their homes, their orchards and kill their children?
What has been taken away from the Israelis?
The holocaust doesn't justify imprisoning and starving to death the Palestinians. Who by the way are now required to have special ID's to move around their land
Israel does not follow UN orders

Would this be your fairness or mine?

Dear Ms Terry,

I'm truly sorry that we can't have a reasonable discussion on the subject, but it appears to me that your mind is made up and that nothing I have to say will make even the slightest dent in your concrete thoughts. You certainly don't seem to set a very good example on how to solve problems. I give you my word that I will drop out of this exchange with this communication so, if you respond to it, you may have the last word.

The Math Tutor

[MsTerry]

MT
I am not surprised to see that you first want to put me down ("You certainly don't seem to set a very good example on how to solve problems.") and then act as if you are above it all.
To accuse one of "it appears to me that your mind is made up" ,without any concrete examples can only mean that YOUR mind is made up.
So far, besides calling people "all of you bleeding hearts", you have only been able to produce some irrelevant positions (" If you have so little common sense, you should run for Congress.")
your 1+1 certainly doesn't add up to anything constructive.

Dear Ms Terry,

I'm truly sorry that we can't have a reasonable discussion on the subject, but it appears to me that your mind is made up and that nothing I have to say will make even the slightest dent in your concrete thoughts. You certainly don't seem to set a very good example on how to solve problems. I give you my word that I will drop out of this exchange with this communication so, if you respond to it, you may have the last word.

The Math Tutor

[Hot Compost]

How is that all of you bleeding hearts don't have a petition to halt the rocket attacks and suicide bombers against Israel?

us bleeding hearts have a tendency to recognize & empathize with the lesser of 2 evils. the underdog, as it were.

Israel inflicts far more terror on the Palestinians than vice versa, and has been since 1948.

[JandA]

	Palestine loss of land 1946-2000 Any word from Obama on the wholesale slaughter yet?

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Other times it withholds important facts.

Map 1- Was created by a British mandate in 1920. Prior to that the whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire and was carved up by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.

Map 2- Was created by UN Resolution 181 and passed by 75% of the member countries of the UN in 1947.

Map 3- Was a result of several factors including Egypt expelling the UN Forces from the Sinai Peninsula and then amassing 1,000 tanks and nearly 100,000 soldiers on the Israeli border and closing the Straits of Tiran to all ships flying Israeli flags. On June 5, 1967. Israel launched a pre-emptive attack against Egypt's airforce. Jordan then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya. In addition the nations of Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. In spite of the number of nations aligned against Israel, by the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. The Sinai Peninsula was then given back to Egypt after signing a Peace Treaty in 1979, the first time any nation victorious in a war ever gave back land.

Map 4- In accordance with the Oslo Accords, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Since that time there have been over 6000 rockets launched from within Gaza, may coming from troops housed in schools, mosques, and government buildings. As far as the West Bank goes in July 2000 at a Camp David Summit, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered Yassir Arafat a Palestinian state with sovereignty over 91% of the 1947 borders over a ten to twenty-five year period. In exchange for the withheld areas of the West Bank where the main Israeli settlement blocks were situated, Barak offered the equivalent area in the Israeli Negev desert. Also included in the offer were the return of a number of refugees and compensation for those not allowed to return. Arafat rejected Barak's offer and refused to make an immediate counter-offer.

Now I fully expect a variety of responses from the usual parties. I hope you can focus on the historical record.

[MsTerry]

Ah, the 91% offer. Doesn't that sound like a lot?
It doesn't when you look at WHAT was offered.
NO water, NO arable land and NO direct connection between the different parcels. But he did offer the Negev desert!
The good spots are occupied by illegal settlements.

As far as the West Bank goes in July 2000 at a Camp David Summit, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered Yassir Arafat a Palestinian state with sovereignty over 91% of the 1947 borders over a ten to twenty-five year period. In exchange for the withheld areas of the West Bank where the main Israeli settlement blocks were situated, Barak offered the equivalent area in the Israeli Negev desert. Also included in the offer were the return of a number of refugees and compensation for those not allowed to return. Arafat rejected Barak's offer and refused to make an immediate counter-offer.

Now I fully expect a variety of responses from the usual parties. I hope you can focus on the historical record.

[JandA]

Ah, the 91% offer. Doesn't that sound like a lot?
It doesn't when you look at WHAT was offered.
NO water, NO arable land and NO direct connection between the different parcels. But he did offer the Negev desert!
The good spots are occupied by illegal settlements.

The offer was 91% of the land and the Negev Desert in exchange for the other 9%. This land is a thriving center of agribusiness and some parts get more than 12 inches of rainfall a year. Nevertheless, Arafat did not even bother to counter-offer.

[MsTerry]

Misinformation and distortion is what you are offering!
The Negev covers more than half of Israel, over some 13,000 km² (4,700 sq mi) or at least 55% of the country's land area.
Where does it say in the agreements that the Palestinians were to get the parts with 12 inches of rain?
It is more like this:

The whole Negev region is incredibly arid, receiving very little rain due to its location to the east of the Sahara (as opposed to the Mediterranean which lies to the west of Israel), and extreme temperatures due to its location 31 degrees north.

Negev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Jeff, what about the water rights, you forgot to address those..............

The offer was 91% of the land and the Negev Desert in exchange for the other 9%. This land is a thriving center of agribusiness and some parts get more than 12 inches of rainfall a year. Nevertheless, Arafat did not even bother to counter-offer.

[MsTerry]

Jeff or Amy,
Can one of you two do some research before posting?

85% of the Negev is used by the Israel Defense Forces for training purposes.[8]. In the remaining portion of the Negev available for civilian purposes, a large number of citizens live together in close proximity to a range of types of hazardous infrastructure, which includes a nuclear reactor, 22 agro and petrochemical factories, an oil terminal, closed military zones, quarries, a toxic waste incinerator Ramat Hovav, cell towers, a power plant, several airports, a prison, and 2 rivers of open sewage. [9]

The offer was 91% of the land and the Negev Desert in exchange for the other 9%. This land is a thriving center of agribusiness and some parts get more than 12 inches of rainfall a year. Nevertheless, Arafat did not even bother to counter-offer.

[JandA]

Misinformation and distortion is what you are offering!
...

This is a fine example of MsTerry's style of personal attack rather than addressing the myriad points made at the outset regarding all four maps. If one researches the history of MsTerry's posts there is a pattern of people who disagree with MsTerry deciding to give up after being attacked. I encourage you all to continue speaking your truth. It is not only your right, it is your duty.

--Jeff--

[MsTerry]

J & A
I can only conclude that you are part of the Anti Defamation League.
You are trying to present your selfs as victims by attacking me personally after I debunked your so called "facts".
How Twisted that you resort to these antics.
I exposed your lack of knowledge and requested answers to the gaps in your statements.
Since you have not been able to rebut the facts presented, one can only surmise that you now agree with my statement.
Thanks for your clarity.

This is a fine example of MsTerry's style of personal attack rather than addressing the myriad points made at the outset regarding all four maps. If one researches the history of MsTerry's posts there is a pattern of people who disagree with MsTerry deciding to give up after being attacked. I encourage you all to continue speaking your truth. It is not only your right, it is your duty.

--Jeff--

[JandA]

J & A
I can only conclude that you are part of the Anti Defamation League.

MsTerry (obviously as in mystery). I appreciate your persistence. You could probably sell ice cubes to an Inuit but your revisions of reality will not scare me away. Nor will your ignorance. I am not a member of the ADL. But what is wrong with the ADL an organzation whose founding principal is "to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience and, if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people." Are you saying that you support the defamation of the Jewish people? Of course the ADL was one of the principal organizations that support the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's. Are you against this as well?

You are trying to present your selfs as victims by attacking me personally after I debunked your so called "facts".How Twisted that you resort to these antics. I exposed your lack of knowledge and requested answers to the gaps in your statements. Since you have not been able to rebut the facts presented, one can only surmise that you now agree with my statement. Thanks for your clarity.

If one follows this thread I posted 4 paragraphs of factual data that pointed out how you used maps to obscure the underlying historical record and the entirity of your response was to question how much of the Negev and what part was being offered to the Palestinians in 2001. Finally as I predicted in my first post, you ALWAYS resort to hostility when someone holds a different opinion than you and then you attack this observation as an attack. Did you study Goebbels or Karl Rove? Keep 'em coming, every post of yours just gives me energy. Why is it that you list your self as Kim Kom, age 97? I know it is a common tactic to post attacks knowing your true identity will not be revealed.

[JandA]

J & A
I can only conclude that you are part of the Anti Defamation League.

Now that I have learned more about the ADL's latest effort I think I will join!

Role in arrest of potential assassins of Barack Obama
In October 2008, the ADL reportedly assisted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) by providing, on request, information on Daniel Cowart and Paul Schlesselman (as well as their associates and contacts) and on their ties to the Supreme White Alliance. Shortly thereafter, the two men were arrested on charges of plotting to murder dozens of African Americans and plotting to assassinate President-elect Barack Obama.

[MsTerry]

Are you saying that you support the defamation of the Jewish people?

No, not at all. I have Jewish friends who have been threatened, harassed and defamed by the ADL because of their belief that they have the civil rights to speak their opinions.

and the entirity of your response was to question how much of the Negev and what part was being offered to the Palestinians in 2001.

This is an out right lie , Jeff.

Finally as I predicted in my first post, you ALWAYS resort to hostility when someone holds a different opinion than you and then you attack this observation as an attack.

Jeff, you suffer from a common problem.
Everything you say is considered an observation, but what others write, you consider a personal attack.
Let me give you some examples of your hostilities

Did you study Goebbels or Karl Rove?

and this

Keep 'em coming, every post of yours just gives me energy.

I know it is a common tactic to post attacks knowing your true identity will not be revealed.

Like your last name is DZ???

[MsTerry]

Now that I have learned more about the ADL's latest effort I think I will join!

What a pity you didn't read all what is written about the ADL
just for you;

Linguist and activist Noam Chomsky, who repeatedly came under the ADL's criticism,^[58][59] wrote in his 1989 book Necessary Illusions:

The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S., as the Israeli press casually describes it, engaged in surveillance, blacklisting, compilation of FBI-style files circulated to adherents for the purpose of defamation, angry public responses to criticsm of Israeli actions, and so on. These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement.^[60]

and this

The ADL has also drawn fire from some Orthodox Jewish leaders who charge it is more interested in promoting a dogmatic form of secularism than in promoting religious tolerance and in the process promoting anti-Christian bigotry and hatred. Orthodox Rabbi Daniel Lapin has charged:

The most deeply held values of the ADL are a hatred of Judaism and Christianity—and a secularization of society.^[62]

and of course this

Michael Lerner, a prominent left-wing rabbi, has criticized the ADL on similar grounds:

The ADL lost most of it credibility in my eyes as a civil rights organization when it began to identify criticisms of Israel with anti-Semitism, still more when it failed to defend me when I was receiving threats to my life from right-wing Jewish groups because of my critique of Israeli policy toward Palestinians (it said that these were not threats that came from my being Jewish, so therefore they were not within their area of concern).^[61]

read the rest too, Jeff, before you join!
Anti-Defamation League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia