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  1. TopTop #1
    mweaver's Avatar
    mweaver
    Supporting Member

    Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Dear Sebastopol Community --

    Several people have called or emailed me recently asking my opinion regarding who to vote for this election for Sebastopol City Council.

    Here is my opinion and recommendation:

    I am strongly recommending Sebastopol Residents to either vote singularly for Guy Wilson, or to vote like I plan to do - for both Guy Wilson and Colleen Fernald.

    Important Note: You don't need to cast 2 votes. I do feel that voting for any other candidates who are running might SERIOULSY jeopardize the character and future of our small town.
    There is a lot of propaganda being sent out in the mail these past few weeks and it's difficult to discern what candidate tag line's "sustainable" or "green" really mean.


    In case you didn't have a chance to attend the community debate a few weeks ago, or haven't had the time to pay attention, Guy and Colleen are the only ones who are in favor of maintaining our small town flavor and who actually oppose the NE plan and "New Urbanism". Moving our city core to the NE quadrant of town would hurt the existing businesses who have helped to create our town character - some for 30+ years. The plan is to build 4 story buildings on 10 ft of fill in a flood plane, cramming 391,000 sq ft of commercial space in an area that floods every few years - sometimes as high as halfway up the community center walls. The roads will remain at existing levels - can you imagine 300 residential units and the new businesses flooded in for a week, like the flood 3 years ago? The NE plan would also bring massive amount of traffic into an area that is already bottle-necked. The plan is for 700 new residents, 100's of new employees and customers who it is hoped will shop here from both in and out of town. Because of high building costs, the rents are predicted to be higher than average, and one prediction states that larger chain stores might be the only businesses able to afford the high rents. And the Plan’s own report states that 60% of the revenues that would enjoyed by the new retail would be drained from existing local business.

    Guy has what it takes to do the job, he is long time Sebastopol resident of over 20 years, with 24 years experience as a civil attorney, raised a family here and is an active and personable member of our community. From what I have witnessed he is very practical and doesn't take sides - he listens and knows how to brainstorm logical solutions and strategies while paying attention to the bigger picture.

    You may not have heard of Colleen - she doesn't have a lot of capital to spend on signage and as a result doesn't barrage us with mailers, either. I have known Colleen for several years, she is a single mom, and has been active in local government for several years. And more importantly, I know she will vote in alignment with my values on every issue. She was very well spoken and eloquent at the town debate a few weeks ago, and I feel that she thoroughly understands the issues, history and voting history of our town and council, especially in regards to the environment.

    The other two candidates are in favor of increasing city revenues by developing the NE quadrant. I heard all of them speak atthe city council candidate's debate a few weeks ago, and I feel all of them revealed who they and what their plans for our town are during that time. Jen Thille had her mind made up months ago, believes many of the people showing up to speak at council meetings in the past year are representing a small majority and she believes the majority of Sebastopol residents think like her. I don't feel she respects differing opinions and doesn't have or make time to listen or care. And after hearing her speak at many council meetings and also during the recent debate, I feel her ideas are more unsustainable than her slogan predicts. Kathleen doesn't seem take a stand on important issues....playing neutral to secure votes is a red flag to me, but during the debate she talked pro NE plan. In my opinion, neither feel strong enough to listen to a wide variety of differing opinions or to stand up to and speak for important and controversial issues.

    Thanks for your time and Guy's Vote!


    Melissa Weaver


    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
    matter." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "The important thing is not to stop questioning'" --Albert Einstein

    Melissa Weaver, owner
    Enhanced Health Systems,
    Solutions for Sustainable Health
    P.O. Box 1422
    Sebastopol, CA 95473
    www.sustainablehealth.com
    (707) 823-3235 or 1 (800) 247-9881
    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  2. TopTop #2
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Thanks Melissa. A mailer from something calling itself "Sustainable Sebastopol" with Larry Robinson's address on it came in the mail yesterday endorsing the Northeast Plan. Supporters have repeatedly insisted this is a "plan" and not a "project". It was curious how they used the picture that the largest landowner in this area, Barney Aldridge, paid out of town architects to draw up to promote his" project" for the NEAP. Mr. Aldridge made his money from the fat fees his Benchmark Lending Group charged for sub-prime mortgages. There is a very interesting article about his company and its techniques called "Mortgage Salesman Pitches Fast Loans" by George Anders that was on the Wallstreet Journal Online; July 21,2005. After I read this article, I wondered why are they trusting someone who made his money this way?
    Mr. Aldridge's architectual renderings were shown at the so called "stakeholder" meetings but not at the meetings for the general public until Guy Wilson revealed them at one of the extra public hearings that were added after much resistance by Larry Robinson. The "stakeholders" were mainly property owners and people who might profit from Mr. Aldridge's project. I have lists of who attended them. When I asked if I could attend one at Public meeting B, I was told," no they are only for "stakeholders".
    Many of us who attended the intial public meetings and workshops had a feeling it was already a "done deal." It wasn't surprising that the "plan the city came up with resembled Mr. Adridge's "project" instead of what the public was asking for at the meetings.
    The most likely scenario will be "baby boxes" otherwise known as an OUTLET MALL. They are under the size limit stated in the plan. They undercut the independents with cheap chinese goods just like the "big boxes" do. Check out the Market Study on the city website. It suggests this.
    I agree we need someone who wil actually listen to the real "stakeholders"-- the people who live here! Vote for Guy Wilson.--Carol Mitchel
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by mweaver: View Post
    Dear Sebastopol Community --

    Several people have called or emailed me recently asking my opinion regarding who to vote for this election for Sebastopol City Council.

    Here is my opinion and recommendation:

    I am strongly recommending Sebastopol Residents to either vote singularly for Guy Wilson, or to vote like I plan to do - for both Guy Wilson and Colleen Fernald.

    Important Note: You don't need to cast 2 votes. I do feel that voting for any other candidates who are running might SERIOULSY jeopardize the character and future of our small town.
    There is a lot of propaganda being sent out in the mail these past few weeks and it's difficult to discern what candidate tag line's "sustainable" or "green" really mean.


    In case you didn't have a chance to attend the community debate a few weeks ago, or haven't had the time to pay attention, Guy and Colleen are the only ones who are in favor of maintaining our small town flavor and who actually oppose the NE plan and "New Urbanism". Moving our city core to the NE quadrant of town would hurt the existing businesses who have helped to create our town character - some for 30+ years. The plan is to build 4 story buildings on 10 ft of fill in a flood plane, cramming 391,000 sq ft of commercial space in an area that floods every few years - sometimes as high as halfway up the community center walls. The roads will remain at existing levels - can you imagine 300 residential units and the new businesses flooded in for a week, like the flood 3 years ago? The NE plan would also bring massive amount of traffic into an area that is already bottle-necked. The plan is for 700 new residents, 100's of new employees and customers who it is hoped will shop here from both in and out of town. Because of high building costs, the rents are predicted to be higher than average, and one prediction states that larger chain stores might be the only businesses able to afford the high rents. And the Plan’s own report states that 60% of the revenues that would enjoyed by the new retail would be drained from existing local business.

    Guy has what it takes to do the job, he is long time Sebastopol resident of over 20 years, with 24 years experience as a civil attorney, raised a family here and is an active and personable member of our community. From what I have witnessed he is very practical and doesn't take sides - he listens and knows how to brainstorm logical solutions and strategies while paying attention to the bigger picture.

    You may not have heard of Colleen - she doesn't have a lot of capital to spend on signage and as a result doesn't barrage us with mailers, either. I have known Colleen for several years, she is a single mom, and has been active in local government for several years. And more importantly, I know she will vote in alignment with my values on every issue. She was very well spoken and eloquent at the town debate a few weeks ago, and I feel that she thoroughly understands the issues, history and voting history of our town and council, especially in regards to the environment.

    The other two candidates are in favor of increasing city revenues by developing the NE quadrant. I heard all of them speak atthe city council candidate's debate a few weeks ago, and I feel all of them revealed who they and what their plans for our town are during that time. Jen Thille had her mind made up months ago, believes many of the people showing up to speak at council meetings in the past year are representing a small majority and she believes the majority of Sebastopol residents think like her. I don't feel she respects differing opinions and doesn't have or make time to listen or care. And after hearing her speak at many council meetings and also during the recent debate, I feel her ideas are more unsustainable than her slogan predicts. Kathleen doesn't seem take a stand on important issues....playing neutral to secure votes is a red flag to me, but during the debate she talked pro NE plan. In my opinion, neither feel strong enough to listen to a wide variety of differing opinions or to stand up to and speak for important and controversial issues.

    Thanks for your time and Guy's Vote!


    Melissa Weaver


    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
    matter." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "The important thing is not to stop questioning'" --Albert Einstein

    Melissa Weaver, owner
    Enhanced Health Systems,
    Solutions for Sustainable Health
    P.O. Box 1422
    Sebastopol, CA 95473
    www.sustainablehealth.com
    (707) 823-3235 or 1 (800) 247-9881
    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  3. TopTop #3
    mweaver's Avatar
    mweaver
    Supporting Member

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    For your information – this letter was sent today to the Press Democrat. It is doubtful they will print it, but we thought you would want to read it. I just received permission from the author to publish it here:

    Editor:

    Friday, October 31, I received a mailer about Sebastopol’s Northeast Area Plan (NEAP) sent from Council Member Larry Robinson’s address. Ironically, this eleventh-hour publication illustrates exactly why NEAP is controversial. Disagreement with Robinson and his followers is branded as “false and misleading,” “myth” and “scare tactics.”

    The mailer features a developer’s rendering that was created months before the plan was issued to the public. In contrast, photos of existing unsightly property imply the choice is this NEAP or nothing. Scare tactics?

    NEAP is presented as a transit hub opportunity. A July 15, 2008 City staff report concludes the NEAP density would “NOT be adequate to fund major new transit service to or within Sebastopol.” The mailer calls increased traffic a myth, yet the EIR projects 8100 additional car trips a day. False and misleading?

    No economic cost/benefit analysis was done; therefore, the economic benefits of this plan are unknown. Potential harm to our small town character is a valid opinion, not myth.

    As an informed citizen, I believe thoughtful challenge to the NEAP is democracy in action. I find this mailer offensive. I believe we deserve better conduct from our public officials.

    David Little
    Sebastopol, CA

    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  4. TopTop #4
    cbauman
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Receiving that mailer in the mail yesterday was a real surprise!

    The mailer's marketing message states exactly the same things being said two or three years ago at the start of public hearings! Perhaps the mailer's supporters think that if they spin the same marketing message over and over: "Adopting the Northeast Plan equals a sustainable green future for Sebastopol" that it will actual come true! Never mind there are REAL PROBLEMS with development in that area that should limit the actual scope and size of the Plan. No amount of minimizing or criticizing opponents will change the reality of that.

    It is obvious the City needs the money from this project. Otherwise they wouldn't be pushing this Plan so hard.

    It saddens me to see how much the political process in here in Sebastopol is at a dead stand still. I find the whole City Council/public hearing process ill-prepared to deal with the real problems we have, now or in the future. We need real leadership right now that involves consultation and vision, not the stacking of the City Council with like-minded individuals who want to ram 'sustainable' projects down the throats of concerned citizens. The only way through the difficult problems that lie ahead is if we truly learn to work together.

    Chris







    Quote Posted in reply to the post by mweaver: View Post
    For your information – this letter was sent today to the Press Democrat. It is doubtful they will print it, but we thought you would want to read it. I just received permission from the author to publish it here:

    Editor:

    Friday, October 31, I received a mailer about Sebastopol’s Northeast Area Plan (NEAP) sent from Council Member Larry Robinson’s address. Ironically, this eleventh-hour publication illustrates exactly why NEAP is controversial. Disagreement with Robinson and his followers is branded as “false and misleading,” “myth” and “scare tactics.”

    The mailer features a developer’s rendering that was created months before the plan was issued to the public. In contrast, photos of existing unsightly property imply the choice is this NEAP or nothing. Scare tactics?

    NEAP is presented as a transit hub opportunity. A July 15, 2008 City staff report concludes the NEAP density would “NOT be adequate to fund major new transit service to or within Sebastopol.” The mailer calls increased traffic a myth, yet the EIR projects 8100 additional car trips a day. False and misleading?

    No economic cost/benefit analysis was done; therefore, the economic benefits of this plan are unknown. Potential harm to our small town character is a valid opinion, not myth.

    As an informed citizen, I believe thoughtful challenge to the NEAP is democracy in action. I find this mailer offensive. I believe we deserve better conduct from our public officials.

    David Little
    Sebastopol, CA

    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  5. TopTop #5
    cbauman
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Just to add a small note to Melissa's comment: "The NE plan would also bring massive amount of traffic into an area that is already bottle-necked. The plan is for 700 new residents, 100's of new employees and customers who it is hoped will shop here from both in and out of town."

    There are also other large projects in development such as the co-housing project near Fiesta which will also add additional population and traffic. The cumulative effect of these other projects on top of the Northeast Plan is huge.

    My concern is that in the future Sebastopol may need to annex surrounding lands in response to overflow pressures. Just a thought. Chris

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by mweaver: View Post
    Dear Sebastopol Community --

    Several people have called or emailed me recently asking my opinion regarding who to vote for this election for Sebastopol City Council.

    Here is my opinion and recommendation:

    I am strongly recommending Sebastopol Residents to either vote singularly for Guy Wilson, or to vote like I plan to do - for both Guy Wilson and Colleen Fernald.

    Important Note: You don't need to cast 2 votes. I do feel that voting for any other candidates who are running might SERIOULSY jeopardize the character and future of our small town.
    There is a lot of propaganda being sent out in the mail these past few weeks and it's difficult to discern what candidate tag line's "sustainable" or "green" really mean.


    In case you didn't have a chance to attend the community debate a few weeks ago, or haven't had the time to pay attention, Guy and Colleen are the only ones who are in favor of maintaining our small town flavor and who actually oppose the NE plan and "New Urbanism". Moving our city core to the NE quadrant of town would hurt the existing businesses who have helped to create our town character - some for 30+ years. The plan is to build 4 story buildings on 10 ft of fill in a flood plane, cramming 391,000 sq ft of commercial space in an area that floods every few years - sometimes as high as halfway up the community center walls. The roads will remain at existing levels - can you imagine 300 residential units and the new businesses flooded in for a week, like the flood 3 years ago? The NE plan would also bring massive amount of traffic into an area that is already bottle-necked. The plan is for 700 new residents, 100's of new employees and customers who it is hoped will shop here from both in and out of town. Because of high building costs, the rents are predicted to be higher than average, and one prediction states that larger chain stores might be the only businesses able to afford the high rents. And the Plan’s own report states that 60% of the revenues that would enjoyed by the new retail would be drained from existing local business.

    Guy has what it takes to do the job, he is long time Sebastopol resident of over 20 years, with 24 years experience as a civil attorney, raised a family here and is an active and personable member of our community. From what I have witnessed he is very practical and doesn't take sides - he listens and knows how to brainstorm logical solutions and strategies while paying attention to the bigger picture.

    You may not have heard of Colleen - she doesn't have a lot of capital to spend on signage and as a result doesn't barrage us with mailers, either. I have known Colleen for several years, she is a single mom, and has been active in local government for several years. And more importantly, I know she will vote in alignment with my values on every issue. She was very well spoken and eloquent at the town debate a few weeks ago, and I feel that she thoroughly understands the issues, history and voting history of our town and council, especially in regards to the environment.

    The other two candidates are in favor of increasing city revenues by developing the NE quadrant. I heard all of them speak atthe city council candidate's debate a few weeks ago, and I feel all of them revealed who they and what their plans for our town are during that time. Jen Thille had her mind made up months ago, believes many of the people showing up to speak at council meetings in the past year are representing a small majority and she believes the majority of Sebastopol residents think like her. I don't feel she respects differing opinions and doesn't have or make time to listen or care. And after hearing her speak at many council meetings and also during the recent debate, I feel her ideas are more unsustainable than her slogan predicts. Kathleen doesn't seem take a stand on important issues....playing neutral to secure votes is a red flag to me, but during the debate she talked pro NE plan. In my opinion, neither feel strong enough to listen to a wide variety of differing opinions or to stand up to and speak for important and controversial issues.

    Thanks for your time and Guy's Vote!


    Melissa Weaver


    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
    matter." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

    "The important thing is not to stop questioning'" --Albert Einstein

    Melissa Weaver, owner
    Enhanced Health Systems,
    Solutions for Sustainable Health
    P.O. Box 1422
    Sebastopol, CA 95473
    www.sustainablehealth.com
    (707) 823-3235 or 1 (800) 247-9881
    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  6. TopTop #6
    Howard's Avatar
    Howard
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Mr. Little, you have obviously not read the plan or been involved to any significant extent in the five years and dozens of public meetings taken place. Case in point: you state emphatically that no "economic/cost analysis was done ..." I would like to draw attention to the following links so that you could amend your statement:

    The first is the retail analysis: https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/Final%20NEArea%20Market%20Study%20Dec%2006.pdf

    The second is the actual fiscal analysis labeled such in the draft NEAP as Appendix C:
    https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/RevDraft%20NEPlan2-2008.pdf

    I look forward to your amended postings apologizing for misleading WaccoBB readers.

    As far as Ms. Mitchell's continued conspiracy theories linking the creator of a drawing to whether one or another owns the plan is preposterous. As someone who was involved from the beginning and attended more than half the public meetings, Mr. Aldridge had no more input into the plan than anyone else, which is how it should be. I also see no support for her theory regarding this plan creating outlet malls. On what basis is this? Where has this happened in all of Sonoma County?

    The whole irony behind the name Sebastopol Preservation Council and what it purports to save by opposing the NEAP is that they will preserve nothing. All they oppose: outlet malls, grocery stores, fill, podia, housing, car trips, density, liquefaction, etc. are permitted now under existing zoning. The plan doesn't change any of these (though it does require no net-fill) and they will continue to be permitted if the plan is defeated by an election of Guy Wilson.

    This is why I support Jen Thille for Sebastopol City Council. She recognizes that sans downzoning of the Northeast Area to something other than a mix of retail, office, industrial and housing, this area will be redeveloped. A strong plan that gives back to the community is better than pie-in-the-sky calls for returning it to the Laguna, putting five-story housing over our public parking lots or year-round farmers markets under solar panels.

    Interestingly, neither of you mention anything factually wrong or misleading in the mailer

    Howard

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by mweaver: View Post
    For your information – this letter was sent today to the Press Democrat. It is doubtful they will print it, but we thought you would want to read it. I just received permission from the author to publish it here:

    Editor:

    Friday, October 31, I received a mailer about Sebastopol’s Northeast Area Plan (NEAP) sent from Council Member Larry Robinson’s address. Ironically, this eleventh-hour publication illustrates exactly why NEAP is controversial. Disagreement with Robinson and his followers is branded as “false and misleading,” “myth” and “scare tactics.”

    The mailer features a developer’s rendering that was created months before the plan was issued to the public. In contrast, photos of existing unsightly property imply the choice is this NEAP or nothing. Scare tactics?

    NEAP is presented as a transit hub opportunity. A July 15, 2008 City staff report concludes the NEAP density would “NOT be adequate to fund major new transit service to or within Sebastopol.” The mailer calls increased traffic a myth, yet the EIR projects 8100 additional car trips a day. False and misleading?

    No economic cost/benefit analysis was done; therefore, the economic benefits of this plan are unknown. Potential harm to our small town character is a valid opinion, not myth.

    As an informed citizen, I believe thoughtful challenge to the NEAP is democracy in action. I find this mailer offensive. I believe we deserve better conduct from our public officials.

    David Little
    Sebastopol, CA

    | Login or Register (free) to reply publicly or privately   Email

  7. TopTop #7
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Actually Howard, I have read the plan as well as attended meetings and read the market study. I guess you only saw the things in it you wanted to. It suggests very clearly in the Market Study, the idea for the OUTLET MALL. It also suggests perhaps a high-end B&B of around 12 rooms. Yet the plan has a 70 room hotel in it even though Sebastopol's existing hotels are only at 40% occupancy. The Market Study also says that 60% of sales in the new area would come from existing businesses.
    I guess you have never worked in retail. The top pay of about $13.00 and hour will not let you afford one of these new condo's. People for these jobs will have to drive in while the people who can afford them will drive out to their higher paying jobs. At the last city council meeting, it was announced that ABAG had reduced Sebastopol's housing targets. The consultant said the reason was that we are too far from the 101 corridor and we are highly unlikely to become a transit hub. The plan as it stands ignores the jobs to housing balance.
    Does adding solar panels to the OUTLET MALL make this a green project? It sounds to me like it will create a lot more driving. What about the emissions generated by manufacturing all of those retail products in China where they use the dirtiest coal-fired energy? It is "GLOBAL" warming not "SEBASTOPOL" warming, isn't it?
    I don't underststand why Jen has such a hard time finding what she needs locally. I rarely go to Santa Rosa for anything. I guess she misses the shopping she had in Southern California. I actually heard her stand up in a city council meeting and say we needed this plan because she couldn't find a place to buy men's underwear in town. The men in my life are fine with the kind you can buy at Long's. Do we need a big new development so Jen can buy fancy underwear without leaving town?
    It just doesn't make sense to fight "global warming" with more and more retail. Putting it in a flood plain is even worse. Pretending it won't generate more traffic is silly. ----Carol
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Howard: View Post
    Mr. Little, you have obviously not read the plan or been involved to any significant extent in the five years and dozens of public meetings taken place. Case in point: you state emphatically that no "economic/cost analysis was done ..." I would like to draw attention to the following links so that you could amend your statement:

    The first is the retail analysis: https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/Final%20NEArea%20Market%20Study%20Dec%2006.pdf

    The second is the actual fiscal analysis labeled such in the draft NEAP as Appendix C:
    https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/RevDraft%20NEPlan2-2008.pdf

    I look forward to your amended postings apologizing for misleading WaccoBB readers.

    As far as Ms. Mitchell's continued conspiracy theories linking the creator of a drawing to whether one or another owns the plan is preposterous. As someone who was involved from the beginning and attended more than half the public meetings, Mr. Aldridge had no more input into the plan than anyone else, which is how it should be. I also see no support for her theory regarding this plan creating outlet malls. On what basis is this? Where has this happened in all of Sonoma County?

    The whole irony behind the name Sebastopol Preservation Council and what it purports to save by opposing the NEAP is that they will preserve nothing. All they oppose: outlet malls, grocery stores, fill, podia, housing, car trips, density, liquefaction, etc. are permitted now under existing zoning. The plan doesn't change any of these (though it does require no net-fill) and they will continue to be permitted if the plan is defeated by an election of Guy Wilson.

    This is why I support Jen Thille for Sebastopol City Council. She recognizes that sans downzoning of the Northeast Area to something other than a mix of retail, office, industrial and housing, this area will be redeveloped. A strong plan that gives back to the community is better than pie-in-the-sky calls for returning it to the Laguna, putting five-story housing over our public parking lots or year-round farmers markets under solar panels.

    Interestingly, neither of you mention anything factually wrong or misleading in the mailer

    Howard
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  8. TopTop #8
    Howard's Avatar
    Howard
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Carol:

    I never said you didn't read the plan. I prefaced that remark by addressing Mr. Little. Hopefully Mr. Little will respond after he has read the plan which contains the fiscal analysis he claimed was never completed.

    However, the idea for an outlet mall is one of the many possibilities discussed in the market study and nowhere, I repeat nowhere, does it state that "the most likely scenario will be "baby boxes" otherwise known as an outlet mall" as you stated in your original posting. The study does state that there are some possibilities of a small, under 23,000 square foot retail center comprised of multiple tenants like one the authors know of in Napa. That means that individual tenants will be much smaller than the total, probably around 2,000 sf +/-, just like other retail tenants.

    But readers of this bulletin board can decide for themselves. Search for the word "outlet" in the retail analysis located at: https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/Final%20NEArea%20Market%20Study%20Dec%2006.pdf

    Further, you arguments against retail because they don't pay more than $13 per hour and thus couldn't afford condos is absurd. What about the owners of retail who hopefully make more? What about the requirement that 20% of the housing is affordable to low and moderate income? Why do they have to be for-sale housing, why not rentals? Your argument is a red herring unless you are saying that we should have a moratorium against new retail anywhere in Sebastopol. And what’s this about selling “Chinese” goods? Are you saying that we should ban imports in Sebastopol? If not, then why just in the Northeast area of Sebastopol?

    Again, as no one has been able to explain it to me, how would no plan prevent these things that you find so horrible from happening when they are currently permitted under current zoning?

    BTW, in responses to your statement that I have no retail experience and imply I don't understand feasibility analysis, I have more than a dozen years experience in retail and wholesale, an undergraduate degree in finance and a graduate degree in business.

    Howard

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by CACole: View Post
    Actually Howard, I have read the plan as well as attended meetings and read the market study. I guess you only saw the things in it you wanted to. It suggests very clearly in the Market Study, the idea for the OUTLET MALL. It also suggests perhaps a high-end B&B of around 12 rooms. Yet the plan has a 70 room hotel in it even though Sebastopol's existing hotels are only at 40% occupancy. The Market Study also says that 60% of sales in the new area would come from existing businesses.
    I guess you have never worked in retail. The top pay of about $13.00 and hour will not let you afford one of these new condo's. People for these jobs will have to drive in while the people who can afford them will drive out to their higher paying jobs. At the last city council meeting, it was announced that ABAG had reduced Sebastopol's housing targets. The consultant said the reason was that we are too far from the 101 corridor and we are highly unlikely to become a transit hub. The plan as it stands ignores the jobs to housing balance.
    Does adding solar panels to the OUTLET MALL make this a green project? It sounds to me like it will create a lot more driving. What about the emissions generated by manufacturing all of those retail products in China where they use the dirtiest coal-fired energy? It is "GLOBAL" warming not "SEBASTOPOL" warming, isn't it?
    I don't underststand why Jen has such a hard time finding what she needs locally. I rarely go to Santa Rosa for anything. I guess she misses the shopping she had in Southern California. I actually heard her stand up in a city council meeting and say we needed this plan because she couldn't find a place to buy men's underwear in town. The men in my life are fine with the kind you can buy at Long's. Do we need a big new development so Jen can buy fancy underwear without leaving town?
    It just doesn't make sense to fight "global warming" with more and more retail. Putting it in a flood plain is even worse. Pretending it won't generate more traffic is silly. ----Carol
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  9. TopTop #9
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Howard I am glad you have brought the Market Study to people's attention.It is full of all sorts of interesting information. I only object to excessive retail that would canabalize existing businesses by 60% and replace them with chain stores. I try to support local independent businesses because it helps our town and because more of the money stays in our community than going to shareholders elsewhere. If you have any problems you can talk directly to the owner.
    I think it is far greener to manufacture more of our goods that we consume locally where we have cleaner energy and good labor laws. This area has been light industrial use for a long time and these businesses have been able to cope with periodic floods without the massive amounts of fill required by the plan. The plastic bottle cap factory that is there has built special doors to keep out the flood waters. There are more light industries that would locate to this area but I have heard that the city has been denying them permits.
    At one city council meeting, I heard Kenyon Webster asking to take off the live work requirement for the places on Main St. stating, "Apparently not that many people want to live where they work." In the abstract this all sounds like a wonderful idea but the reality isn't there. The market study says that any new retail is dependent on drawing shoppers from outside of Sebastopol and that making it live-work will not be enough to support a lot more retail.
    Chris Baumann is right to bring up the traffic concerns. The plan merely takes off the traffic levels of service. Where you live Howard, you aren't much affected by the cut-through commuter traffic so I am not surprised that you ignore this very real issue that affects the health and safety of those of us who are affected by it. Recently, there was a very serious bike accident on our street. The kid broke his arm, his leg, and required a 100 stitches. One report said it was caused by a car. The kid doesn't remember anything. When you back up traffic through town, frustrated commuters speed through our neighborhood streets.
    You seem to want to make the new area all wonderful and walkable for the people of the future while ignoring the health and safety of the people who live here now. I want to elect someone who won't turn a deaf ear to these very real concerns, that is why I am voting for Guy Wilson. ---Carol Mitchel

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Howard: View Post
    Carol:

    I never said you didn't read the plan. I prefaced that remark by addressing Mr. Little. Hopefully Mr. Little will respond after he has read the plan which contains the fiscal analysis he claimed was never completed.

    However, the idea for an outlet mall is one of the many possibilities discussed in the market study and nowhere, I repeat nowhere, does it state that "the most likely scenario will be "baby boxes" otherwise known as an outlet mall" as you stated in your original posting. The study does state that there are some possibilities of a small, under 23,000 square foot retail center comprised of multiple tenants like one the authors know of in Napa. That means that individual tenants will be much smaller than the total, probably around 2,000 sf +/-, just like other retail tenants.

    But readers of this bulletin board can decide for themselves. Search for the word "outlet" in the retail analysis located at: https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/pdfs/planning/Final%20NEArea%20Market%20Study%20Dec%2006.pdf

    Further, you arguments against retail because they don't pay more than $13 per hour and thus couldn't afford condos is absurd. What about the owners of retail who hopefully make more? What about the requirement that 20% of the housing is affordable to low and moderate income? Why do they have to be for-sale housing, why not rentals? Your argument is a red herring unless you are saying that we should have a moratorium against new retail anywhere in Sebastopol. And what’s this about selling “Chinese” goods? Are you saying that we should ban imports in Sebastopol? If not, then why just in the Northeast area of Sebastopol?

    Again, as no one has been able to explain it to me, how would no plan prevent these things that you find so horrible from happening when they are currently permitted under current zoning?

    BTW, in responses to your statement that I have no retail experience and imply I don't understand feasibility analysis, I have more than a dozen years experience in retail and wholesale, an undergraduate degree in finance and a graduate degree in business.

    Howard
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  10. TopTop #10
    Howard's Avatar
    Howard
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Carol:

    Again, you have not answered the question, are you opposed to all retail or just retail in the Northeast area? Please clarify.

    It also sounds like you are opposed to any new housing, industrial or office, because they have traffic impacts. Any new development anywhere in our city will cause traffic impacts at the two major intersections that are now in violation of the General Plan.

    You and the SPC have also not been honestly answering any of the central questions regarding the NE area. Is the SPC advocating no new development in this area but for a farmers markets covered with solar panels? If so, have you checked with our city attorney as to whether that is legally possible?

    This silly story about a kid being hit by a car is another rediculous anecdotal statement that has no bearing on anything, certainly not the NEAP. The only way to stop children from being hit by cars is to not let them out of the house or stop cars at the borders.

    Howard

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by CACole: View Post
    Howard I am glad you have brought the Market Study to people's attention.It is full of all sorts of interesting information. I only object to excessive retail that would canabalize existing businesses by 60% and replace them with chain stores. I try to support local independent businesses because it helps our town and because more of the money stays in our community than going to shareholders elsewhere. If you have any problems you can talk directly to the owner.
    I think it is far greener to manufacture more of our goods that we consume locally where we have cleaner energy and good labor laws. This area has been light industrial use for a long time and these businesses have been able to cope with periodic floods without the massive amounts of fill required by the plan. The plastic bottle cap factory that is there has built special doors to keep out the flood waters. There are more light industries that would locate to this area but I have heard that the city has been denying them permits.
    At one city council meeting, I heard Kenyon Webster asking to take off the live work requirement for the places on Main St. stating, "Apparently not that many people want to live where they work." In the abstract this all sounds like a wonderful idea but the reality isn't there. The market study says that any new retail is dependent on drawing shoppers from outside of Sebastopol and that making it live-work will not be enough to support a lot more retail.
    Chris Baumann is right to bring up the traffic concerns. The plan merely takes off the traffic levels of service. Where you live Howard, you aren't much affected by the cut-through commuter traffic so I am not surprised that you ignore this very real issue that affects the health and safety of those of us who are affected by it. Recently, there was a very serious bike accident on our street. The kid broke his arm, his leg, and required a 100 stitches. One report said it was caused by a car. The kid doesn't remember anything. When you back up traffic through town, frustrated commuters speed through our neighborhood streets.
    You seem to want to make the new area all wonderful and walkable for the people of the future while ignoring the health and safety of the people who live here now. I want to elect someone who won't turn a deaf ear to these very real concerns, that is why I am voting for Guy Wilson. ---Carol Mitchel
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  11. TopTop #11
    Magick's Avatar
    Magick
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Dear Chris, I can't thank you enough for your astute summation of the situation.

    Here's my perspective.
    I have attended probably 25 public meetings over 5 years concerning the Northeast Plan and I am a founding member of the Sebastopol Preservation Coalition.
    Preservation, by the way, means making changes that honor what we stand for like respecting environmental constraints in relationship to the Laguna, water supply, and greenhouse gases. It also means affirming our commitment as a people to leave less of a footprint on our precious earth and holding to our belief that community,not money, is the bottom-line.

    The people of this town are weary of being been disparaged for doing exactly what a good citizenry is meant to do.
    We have been active, involved, committed, and well-informed citizens. The SPC core that started out as four women has grown to involve hundreds of people who have taken time out, to speak out.
    At the candidate's debate Jen Thille complained that there's this "small" vocal group of folks that come to all the council meetings, and why can't they be like 99% of the rest of the townspeople who don't have time because they have busy lives, children and jobs. Well its hard to know who to defend after that statement! The Community Center filled to the rafters for an unprecedented 3 nights of hearings is no "small" feat.
    We organized educational meetings, study groups, gathered over 250 signatures on a petition to uphold the General Plan, and took all our statistics straight from city documents, the Specific Plan, and the EIR. We were determined to be accurate. Many of us bought our own copies of these book sized documents at $20 dollars each and studied and discussed them. It takes alot of time, energy, vision, and perseverance to mobilize a town.

    There were 3 major meetings held with about 200 people at each meeting. The air was charged with the excitement of an engaged community gathering. We finally got to really speak our minds, and most folks thought surely that after 90 people spoke opposing the plan with only 7 for it, the council would follow the lead of the people. If you were not at those meetings I want to tell you people covered every topic imaginable from the errors of building in a flood and earthquake prone, liquefaction zone to the obvious increase of greenhouse gases with 8100 new car trips daily. And they coupled them with wonderful visions of what could be.
    Just a few of the positive visions were:

    A year round market, an organic community garden, an amphitheatre, maintaining and increasing appropriate small industry so we are more self suffincient.
    Housing above the 76 ft flood line with incubator businesses on the ground floor.
    An Environmental education center that would oversee a revitalization of area to create a model for other cities.

    The council members who continue to criticize are really just angry that we have upset the apple cart with the truth.
    I want to offer respect to Linda Kelley and Sarah Gurney, because they have done a great deal to support these alternatives. They have let it be known that they have heard us by their own critiques of the Plan and suggestions they have offered. They both endorse Guy Wilson for City Council. I also endorse Guy Wilson, but just like with Obama, he cannot be the answer, only a wiling public servant who will need all of us to stay involved when this Plan comes before the council again.
    He cannot do it alone, be we together can continue to fulfill our destiny as a conscious, peace loving, well-informed and caring community that will not let developers and chain stores use our town for their profits.

    The situation, like you say, Chris is at a standstill. I have attended almost every council meeting, special and otherwise, for years and this is not what democracy looks like. From the beginning there has been an attempt to manufacture consent and we, the people, were shunted aside over and over again. Now we have been ignored, and, in condenscending tones, told that this is really the most sustainable way. The Bush doctrine in action..if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.
    Guy Wilson is the only candidate that has had the courage to stand up in the middle of this painful divide and speak in opposition to the plan as it stands.
    I know that members of the SPC and most everyone in this community would be glad to start anew with a Council that listens, responds and works hand in hand with the people so we can take care of each other and the natural world even through difficult times.
    Guy Wilson, Linda Kelley, and Sarah Gurney all are open to this kind of dialogue. They also endorse using Community Impact Reports, CIRs, as the latest tool for understanding real economic impacts. The businesses in this town are locally owned and operated, eclectic and unique. Over 30 businesses have signed SPC petitions and spoken out expressing their concerns about the negative impacts of adding a huge retail component in the N.E. Area. Two of our local grocery store owners, who have supported every community cause you can imagine, could not even sway the die-hards on the council.
    The price of democracy is constant vigilance and we have so far held all ill-conceived big developments at bay. We could all be standing together, proud that we have not gone the way of so many places who have had their soul stolen by big corporations.
    Let's revitalize our Council and join together with real vision and respect for one another as well as the water, air, earth and all living creatures. Its the wave of the future, let's ride it!

    With Respect, Magick
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  12. TopTop #12
    shellebelle
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Oh Good Grief! Not for BS on the NEA Plan by the Sebatopol Preservation Society crowd!

    I swear the conservation crowd is just trying to create fear! And "they" want voters to back "their" lies? How sad is that!

    I heard Guy say at the Wacco sponsored debate he wanted to add 25 homes in the NE area each year for 20 years HELP!!!!!! Thats' more than the General Plan allows and FAR MORE than the NEA Plan. WAKE UP!!!

    And many of you are talking as if Guy, Kathleen or Colleen have the skills to handle the information necessary to make an informed decision about NEAP. Come on only one candidate has a Green MBA and a Geology dregree! Talk about back bone to know the truth and read through the buracreacy! (Oh for those who don't know it's Jen Thille https://www.votethille.com/)

    Look lets get real here!

    Sebastopol is supported by it's surrounding communities. Read Retail Market Analysis page 4. The city's retail is responsible for 2.5 TIMES the retail spending power of the city's residents! That's 173 million dollars!!!!! The goal is to get the cars that aren't stopping to spend!! AKA STOP THE RETAIL LEAK! A place to stop, room to pull over and places to drop that cash!! In the process if we can provide jobs (even retail jobs) for the local students we are ahead!!!! Yes the dream is real business but let me tell you unless there are parking spaces and commercial real estate that is appealing and appropriate there won't be businesses coming to Sebastopol.

    The General Plan allows much more than the NEA Plan. Leaving the General Plan in place is not optimum.

    Lets try a reality check!

    Currently the General Plan is in place and the Sebastopol Conservation Society Crowd has said "halt" and they have succeeded but lets see what they realistically accomplished.

    If tomorrow the owner of any of the land in question went down and filed a development plan within the General Plan parameters the city council would HAVE to approve it or be sued. Now the city may be able to delay some but if I remember basic CA law (attorneys please step forward and tell how true this is) even if the delay is enough to get the NE Plan or a plan in place the developer would be grandfathered in under the original General Plan parameters because they filed prior to the NE Plan or other plan being implemented.

    Now I have heard many misnomers that this is a "development" it is not! No one has the right to tell a land owner what they can and can not do with their land if they follow the city guidelines.

    The only option is to "change" the city guidelines. The NEA Plan lays out a set of zoning and design regulations.

    If the Sebastopol Conservation Society thinks the NEA Plan is bad I can GUARANTEE anyone developing under the General Plan will HAVE FAR MORE wiggle room!!

    Here are some general info that busts the myths of the Sebastopol Preservation Society:

    The purpose of the Northeast Plan is to review land use policy for one area of Sebastopol and set clear City policy to guide future development as it is proposed. Okay people this is a yeh! We want a say in what developed but we have to do it BEFORE development is initiated by land owners!

    Part of the area is relatively land-locked, and the General Plan lacks a plan for addressing this significant circulation issue. The Specific Plan creates a template for streetscape and other capital improvements. Okay people this is a yeh! We want to address the congestion - Right?!

    Development in the area would be required to meet the same parking requirements as apply today to development in downtown Sebastopol. Okay people this is a yeh! We want more parking right?! We want customers to stop and stay not keep going because there are no parking spaces!

    Today, net fill is allowed in the area (and in the entire City limits). The Plan proposes no net fill to retain existing flood holding capacity. This is a progressive environmental
    policy which imposes additional constraints on development. Okay people this is a yeh! We want the flood issues to be addressed proactively (that means before the flooding versus after it)!

    Statements have been made that current zoning limits height to 2 stories in the downtown; in fact, 3 stories are allowed today. Okay people this is a yeh! We want shorter structures right so we can enjoy the natural beauty that surrounds our city!

    The Northeast Plan incorporates the existing regulation that sets strict size limits, far below the size of big boxes. Okay people this is a yeh! This means no large chain stores. Might want to attend the next city counsel meeting and ask which stores int he community currently would not qualify under NEAP for a location.

    And as far as wetland impact the area we are talking about is ALREADY developed! This is replacement/restoration development NOT new development!! Okay people this is a yeh! We aren't hurting the Laguna in anyway! In fact with the new environmental and green rules of NEAP we actually create green jobs and lower our environmental impact!!!

    Just to end on a big hit the Plan lays out a set of
    zoning and design regulations the only way legally to control development - "telling" a developer what they will build when the general plan allows something different back fires EVERY TIME! (It's been tried more than once and usually ends with a lawsuit being won by the developer that often then pays for his development).

    Does the "Sebatopol Preservation Society" have the funds to fight the legal battles because most of the people I see backing it don't seem to have that kind of cash.

    Lets get real Sebastopol! Change is eminent! Do you want to be in charge of it or do you want it to be in charge of you? Follow the Sebastopol Conservation Society recommendations and change will be in charge via developers!
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  13. TopTop #13
    Many Rivers
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Thank you, Shelley, for stating the reality of NEAP so succinctly. It's pretty easy to get Sebastopol voters all riled up by saying that some plan or other will negatively impact the Laguna, or traffic, or housing density. Just mention one of those buzz-words, and you've automatically got a whole bunch of protesters lined up behind you. The facts get lost in the protests because you have to actually stop and think, rather than just involving a knee-jerk reaction.
    Fact: that part of Sebastopol will get developed, whether anyone likes it or not, because the individual land-owners have the right to develop it, within the guidelines of the zoning. Everyone needs to calm down and recognize that. Now, breathe, and then think about what that means. Do we want haphazard development with no underlying plan, or do we want to see the area put together in a reasonable way? That's what NEAP does. Let's move on, and get to work on getting together on this. What an opportunity!
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  14. TopTop #14
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    An undergraduate geology degree is not the same as having actually worked as a geologist. When I first met Jen she was studying to be a vulcanologist---not too many volcanos in Sebastopol. I am not impressed by the green mba which was started at the New College and was taken over by Dominican when New College lost their accreditation. Domincan is hardly a high selective institution. She is a nice person but I don't find her qualified. Green and sustainable are just marketing buzz words.
    Guy was talking about 25 units per year over the whole town not just the NEAP. Why does a small town like ours need the giant new 4 story civic building in the plan?
    I doubt I'll pop your green bubble, but this plan would cause a lot more people to drive more. We don't have any good public transportation here. It won't magically show up with this plan. New Urbanism was intended for large cities not small country towns like ours.
    I asked city manager, Dave Brennen, if there was any way to keep out the outlet mall. He said there was no way because they are under the size limit allowed in the plan.
    Retail jobs won't pay enough for people to live in the new area. It is extra expensive to build in a flood zone that is also an earthquake liquefaction zone.
    People don't just drive to go shopping. Most are driving through on their way to their jobs. The market study states that people come to Sebastopol to shop because they want a small town shopping experience. People shop in Santa Rosa because they also work there.
    A dependence on retail sales for California cities leads to a lot of poor planning. Just building more and more retail is simplistic. The "build and they will come" philosophy is outdated. It is interesting to note that Sebastopol already generates more per capita in retail sales than our neighboring towns, according to the market study. The study also says that a huge chunk of those sales are car-related.
    The more you build, the more there is to take care of. Every time the town hires a new employee they have to pay retirement and health benefits as well as a salary. This plan will cost the town more than it generates in revenue. The outlet mall hasn't helped Petaluma out that much, they are laying off people right and left. Most of the revenue projected in the plan is to come from a 70 room hotel. According to the owner of the Sebastopol Inn, the two current hotels are at 40% occupancy.
    Roof gardens, living walls, and solar panels are all exciting technologies, but they are also very expensive. I would really like one of those electric Tesla sports cars but with the $100,000 price tag, I think I'll keep fixing up my old volvo. Fixing up what we have already isn't as sexy but it is a lot more affordable than building a giant new glitzy development.
    -----Carol
    .
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by shellebelle: View Post
    Oh Good Grief! Not for BS on the NEA Plan by the Sebatopol Preservation Society crowd!

    I swear the conservation crowd is just trying to create fear! And "they" want voters to back "their" lies? How sad is that!

    I heard Guy say at the Wacco sponsored debate he wanted to add 25 homes in the NE area each year for 20 years HELP!!!!!! Thats' more than the General Plan allows and FAR MORE than the NEA Plan. WAKE UP!!!

    And many of you are talking as if Guy, Kathleen or Colleen have the skills to handle the information necessary to make an informed decision about NEAP. Come on only one candidate has a Green MBA and a Geology dregree! Talk about back bone to know the truth and read through the buracreacy! (Oh for those who don't know it's Jen Thille https://www.votethille.com/)

    Look lets get real here!

    Sebastopol is supported by it's surrounding communities. Read Retail Market Analysis page 4. The city's retail is responsible for 2.5 TIMES the retail spending power of the city's residents! That's 173 million dollars!!!!! The goal is to get the cars that aren't stopping to spend!! AKA STOP THE RETAIL LEAK! A place to stop, room to pull over and places to drop that cash!! In the process if we can provide jobs (even retail jobs) for the local students we are ahead!!!! Yes the dream is real business but let me tell you unless there are parking spaces and commercial real estate that is appealing and appropriate there won't be businesses coming to Sebastopol.

    The General Plan allows much more than the NEA Plan. Leaving the General Plan in place is not optimum.

    Lets try a reality check!

    Currently the General Plan is in place and the Sebastopol Conservation Society Crowd has said "halt" and they have succeeded but lets see what they realistically accomplished.

    If tomorrow the owner of any of the land in question went down and filed a development plan within the General Plan parameters the city council would HAVE to approve it or be sued. Now the city may be able to delay some but if I remember basic CA law (attorneys please step forward and tell how true this is) even if the delay is enough to get the NE Plan or a plan in place the developer would be grandfathered in under the original General Plan parameters because they filed prior to the NE Plan or other plan being implemented.

    Now I have heard many misnomers that this is a "development" it is not! No one has the right to tell a land owner what they can and can not do with their land if they follow the city guidelines.

    The only option is to "change" the city guidelines. The NEA Plan lays out a set of zoning and design regulations.

    If the Sebastopol Conservation Society thinks the NEA Plan is bad I can GUARANTEE anyone developing under the General Plan will HAVE FAR MORE wiggle room!!

    Here are some general info that busts the myths of the Sebastopol Preservation Society:

    The purpose of the Northeast Plan is to review land use policy for one area of Sebastopol and set clear City policy to guide future development as it is proposed. Okay people this is a yeh! We want a say in what developed but we have to do it BEFORE development is initiated by land owners!

    Part of the area is relatively land-locked, and the General Plan lacks a plan for addressing this significant circulation issue. The Specific Plan creates a template for streetscape and other capital improvements. Okay people this is a yeh! We want to address the congestion - Right?!

    Development in the area would be required to meet the same parking requirements as apply today to development in downtown Sebastopol. Okay people this is a yeh! We want more parking right?! We want customers to stop and stay not keep going because there are no parking spaces!

    Today, net fill is allowed in the area (and in the entire City limits). The Plan proposes no net fill to retain existing flood holding capacity. This is a progressive environmental
    policy which imposes additional constraints on development. Okay people this is a yeh! We want the flood issues to be addressed proactively (that means before the flooding versus after it)!

    Statements have been made that current zoning limits height to 2 stories in the downtown; in fact, 3 stories are allowed today. Okay people this is a yeh! We want shorter structures right so we can enjoy the natural beauty that surrounds our city!

    The Northeast Plan incorporates the existing regulation that sets strict size limits, far below the size of big boxes. Okay people this is a yeh! This means no large chain stores. Might want to attend the next city counsel meeting and ask which stores int he community currently would not qualify under NEAP for a location.

    And as far as wetland impact the area we are talking about is ALREADY developed! This is replacement/restoration development NOT new development!! Okay people this is a yeh! We aren't hurting the Laguna in anyway! In fact with the new environmental and green rules of NEAP we actually create green jobs and lower our environmental impact!!!

    Just to end on a big hit the Plan lays out a set of
    zoning and design regulations the only way legally to control development - "telling" a developer what they will build when the general plan allows something different back fires EVERY TIME! (It's been tried more than once and usually ends with a lawsuit being won by the developer that often then pays for his development).

    Does the "Sebatopol Preservation Society" have the funds to fight the legal battles because most of the people I see backing it don't seem to have that kind of cash.

    Lets get real Sebastopol! Change is eminent! Do you want to be in charge of it or do you want it to be in charge of you? Follow the Sebastopol Conservation Society recommendations and change will be in charge via developers!
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  15. TopTop #15
    Jen T.
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Dear Carol,

    No, an undergraduate degree does not make me a registered geologist, but I have put in the years of work to study subjects such as mineralogy, paleoclimatology, sedimentary petrology, environmental geology, historical geology, structural geology, hydrogeology, physics and chemistry amongst other things. In addition, I have done a lot of field work over the years and I believe that I'm more qualified to talk about water, aquifers, liquifaction and the other issues brought up by the SPC than the average person. By the way, this area used to be active volcanically and much of our fine wine is grown on rich Sonoma Volcanic soil:-) I also put in 2 years of hard work to obtain my Green MBA degree from Dominican University. The MBA programs at Dominican are well respected, ranked tier 1 and I assure you that my program was sufficiently rigorous and not involved in any accreditation issue with New College. Here are links to both my geology program at SSU and to the Green MBA program at Dominican.
    https://www.sonoma.edu/geology/
    https://greenmba.com/
    You say that you don't find me qualified? What exactly are your qualifications in these areas Carol?

    Jen Thille
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  16. TopTop #16
    Bird Watcher's Avatar
    Bird Watcher
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Magick--Yes, you four women have certainly done a number on this community. The problem is, it hasn’t been positive work. The speed and spread of the misinformation campaign about the NEAP has been astounding. You should take that fabulous energy to the County or State level and use it to get our fair share gas and property taxes back in Sebastopol where they belong.

    You’ve also managed to divide the community in a really mean-spirited way. Us vs. Them. The Green-bellied Sneetches vs. the Star-bellied Sneetches! Didn’t we learn anything from Dr. Seuss? Your group has intimidated people at City Council meetings with hisses and boos. No wonder no one wants to attend. Used to be, the worst part of a Council meeting was listening to the Jenkel crew...

    I lost all respect for Guy Wilson (whom I’ve known personally for over a decade) when, denouncing the Plan at a Council meeting, he stood before a Photo-shopped illustration that showed a glass-fronted building--lifted from the Orange County business-park stylebook--rising from the sidewalk along Sebastopol Ave.

    To even imply that the NEAP would allow such a thing is really dirty pool, because pictures are worth a thousand words, especially when people don’t have the time to read 400-odd pages of policy. Guy should be ashamed. My first thought was that he simply was not familiar with the actual Plan material. Later, and much worse, I realized he was intentionally going along with the misrepresentation and fear-mongering.

    The Northeast Area aside, what does SPC propose to bring future revenues to the City? How do you propose to keep people from driving from Bodega Bay to Santa Rosa or Forestville to Rohnert Park, along the highways that intersect downtown? Because that traffic will continue to get worse, downtown infill or no. How do you propose to stop population growth, economic cycles, the expansion of the universe? You can’t put Sebastopol in a bubble, stopped in time. It is subject to the same laws of physics as anywhere else.

    So go ahead, you four pat yourselves on the back. If Guy is elected to the Council and creates a majority in favor of stagnation, we’ll blame SPC when Sebastopol sinks into the quagmire of backward-looking policies and municipal decay, and eventually files for bankruptcy. If people, however, wish for leadership with logic, reason, graciousness and progressive thinking, they’ll vote for Jen Thille tomorrow.

    Pam Williams
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  17. TopTop #17
    shellebelle
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Carol,

    1. Carol can you read a geology report and explain to me it's impact and have the degree to back it up and the knowledge base?

    2. Are you willing to pay for that knowledge from some one else PERSONALLY? It's called putting your money where your mouth is. I don't see Sebastopol Conservation Society willing to do that. If so get fund raisers going and BUY that LAND!!!

    3. Guy did not specify 25 over the town so how do you know?

    4. The conversation was on NEA Plan not on the whole town so WHY would he make that statement and not clarify?

    5. Define OUTLET MALL. Talk to me in square feet not abstract. Don't talk to me about what others told you tell me either what it is defined as or tell me where to find the info. I want FACTS not FICTION!

    6. Retail jobs never pay as well as say a technology position but at least Sebastopol has a living wage ordinance. If you don't want to work retail GET AN EDUCATION and USE IT!!! Remember life is a choice - your life - your choice - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHOICES
    (or anyone elses)! I DO NOT OWE YOU (or anyone else) A JOB!!

    7. "
    Every time the town hires a new employee they have to pay retirement and health benefits as well as a salary. This plan will cost the town more than it generates in revenue." WHAT? The TOWN is not hiring these employees the BUSINESSES are! IT COSTS THE TOWN NOTHING!!!!! In fact if you are a resident who takes a job where you get retirement and health benefits you gain!

    8. Of course the outlet mall (WHICH IS WAY OVER 100,00 SQ FT! REALITY CHECK PEOPLE) is not doing well in Petaluma. It is not on an easy exit, it has nothing to make it a destination other than itself and there are no real restaurants. If we "accept" your truth you are saying Sebastopol sucks; it has no restaurants and would never be a destination location DESPITE the fact its retailers bring in 2.5 times the residents spending power equaling $173 million! I think you have an altered truth.

    9. "Fixing up what we have already isn't as sexy but it is a lot more affordable than building a giant new glitzy development." AGAIN WHAT?????????

    Umm THE NEA PLAN IS A PLAN!!!!!!!!!! THE PLAN is NOT a development!!

    AND THE LAND OWNERS HAVE A RIGHT BY LAW TO DO AS THEY PLEASE WITH THEIR PROPERTY
    (within city zoning and guidelines)!!

    YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO "FIX UP" SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY!

    And if you did what in reality would you do with the large quadrant where the desolate commercial warehouses are? What about the lumber yard?

    Carol,

    I'm sorry but your reality is fiction. You apparently believe one can force another to accept and manifest your truth despite the laws saying otherwise. Unless you have the financial backing to fight the lawsuits (which will be lost and possibly with retribution being required) or better yet to buy the multiple pieces of land that make up the North East Area your best bet is to put into place zoning and design requirements that create the best city you can within the restraints of the federal laws and those of the state of CA.

    It's time to work in co-operation.

    Take the first step place some requirements on the record for zoning and redesign standards. Then if needed author another bill and tweak things further.

    Think of things in steps take one at a time until you reach the top.

    Look at the truths and stop the fiction -

    Vacant, dilapidated warehousing is not bringing value to Sebastopol.

    Currently the General Plan has a great amount of leeway that the North East Area Plan narrows.

    Anyone hiring additional Employees in Sebastopol at a living wage is a good thing and better if they are also residents.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by CACole: View Post
    An undergraduate geology degree is not the same as having actually worked as a geologist. When I first met Jen she was studying to be a vulcanologist---not too many volcanos in Sebastopol. I am not impressed by the green mba which was started at the New College and was taken over by Dominican when New College lost their accreditation. Domincan is hardly a high selective institution. She is a nice person but I don't find her qualified. Green and sustainable are just marketing buzz words.
    Guy was talking about 25 units per year over the whole town not just the NEAP. Why does a small town like ours need the giant new 4 story civic building in the plan?
    I doubt I'll pop your green bubble, but this plan would cause a lot more people to drive more. We don't have any good public transportation here. It won't magically show up with this plan. New Urbanism was intended for large cities not small country towns like ours.
    I asked city manager, Dave Brennen, if there was any way to keep out the outlet mall. He said there was no way because they are under the size limit allowed in the plan.
    Retail jobs won't pay enough for people to live in the new area. It is extra expensive to build in a flood zone that is also an earthquake liquefaction zone.
    People don't just drive to go shopping. Most are driving through on their way to their jobs. The market study states that people come to Sebastopol to shop because they want a small town shopping experience. People shop in Santa Rosa because they also work there.
    A dependence on retail sales for California cities leads to a lot of poor planning. Just building more and more retail is simplistic. The "build and they will come" philosophy is outdated. It is interesting to note that Sebastopol already generates more per capita in retail sales than our neighboring towns, according to the market study. The study also says that a huge chunk of those sales are car-related.
    The more you build, the more there is to take care of. Every time the town hires a new employee they have to pay retirement and health benefits as well as a salary. This plan will cost the town more than it generates in revenue. The outlet mall hasn't helped Petaluma out that much, they are laying off people right and left. Most of the revenue projected in the plan is to come from a 70 room hotel. According to the owner of the Sebastopol Inn, the two current hotels are at 40% occupancy.
    Roof gardens, living walls, and solar panels are all exciting technologies, but they are also very expensive. I would really like one of those electric Tesla sports cars but with the $100,000 price tag, I think I'll keep fixing up my old volvo. Fixing up what we have already isn't as sexy but it is a lot more affordable than building a giant new glitzy development.
    -----Carol
    .
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  18. TopTop #18
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    e: [WaccoBB] Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!
    Monday, November 3, 2008 10:38 AM
    I am just a resident and voter not running for city council so I don't think my qualifications are applicable. I do trust Jane Neilson's background , working for many years for the USGS with a (PHD from Stanford University) more than yours. I think you are nice but perhaps a bigger city would be a better fit for such an ambitious plan. This is a feel-green plan that will create more emissions than it saves and cost more too.---Carol


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jen T.: View Post
    Dear Carol,

    No, an undergraduate degree does not make me a registered geologist, but I have put in the years of work to study subjects such as mineralogy, paleoclimatology, sedimentary petrology, environmental geology, historical geology, structural geology, hydrogeology, physics and chemistry amongst other things. In addition, I have done a lot of field work over the years and I believe that I'm more qualified to talk about water, aquifers, liquifaction and the other issues brought up by the SPC than the average person. By the way, this area used to be active volcanically and much of our fine wine is grown on rich Sonoma Volcanic soil:-) I also put in 2 years of hard work to obtain my Green MBA degree from Dominican University. The MBA programs at Dominican are well respected, ranked tier 1 and I assure you that my program was sufficiently rigorous and not involved in any accreditation issue with New College. Here are links to both my geology program at SSU and to the Green MBA program at Dominican.
    https://www.sonoma.edu/geology/
    https://greenmba.com/
    You say that you don't find me qualified? What exactly are your qualifications in these areas Carol?

    Jen Thille
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  19. TopTop #19
    shellebelle
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    AN AMBITIOUS PLAN?

    Placing zoning and design requirements that narrow the General Plan is AMBITIOUS?

    Create emissions - how? By getting cars to stop?

    OH Good Grief!

    What is the ulterior motive of this "Magick" crowd?

    Someone clue me in?




    Quote Posted in reply to the post by CACole: View Post
    e: [WaccoBB] I think you are nice but perhaps a bigger city would be a better fit for such an ambitious plan. This is a feel-green plan that will create more emissions than it saves and cost more too.---Carol
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  20. TopTop #20
    jhstayton's Avatar
    jhstayton
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    To my friends in the Sebastopol community,

    This is a point of clarification about the MBA in Sustainable Enterprise at Dominican University (Green MBA). We moved our program in a two-year process that completed in June, 2007. New College, a bastion of progressive thinking, was put on probation by WASC in July 2007 and sadly closed their doors in February of this year. We had already moved before their troubles manifested.

    Since I am not a Sebastopol resident, the NEA plan is not an issue I will comment on. However, I would like to attest to the character, values and judgment of Jen Thille. She truly seeks to integrate systemic, sustainable thinking into the challenging realities facing your beautiful town. She is progressive, fair, and cares deeply about Sebastopol.

    I have friends on both sides of the NEA issue. I would like to remind you that the candidate you support will have influence on many more issues than the NEA plan. Jen is a wise choice when you vote tomorrow.

    All the best,

    John Stayton
    Cofounder and Director
    MBA in Sustainable Enterprise
    Dominican University of California
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  21. TopTop #21
    GGBB
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    This discussion is not only irrational, it is offensive. I think it is easy to forget our manners when we are alone with a computer screen and for that reason this will be my first and last posting before I unsubscribe.

    The NEAP requires careful consideration and perhaps modification but one would think it is this Plan as is, or no plan. That is just untrue and unrealistic. Why is that concept so difficult to consider?

    It is unclear whether the people posting comments have attended meetings because their "facts" are wrong. I did attend the Planning Commission and City Council public hearings and deliberations. Guy Wilson did not show the photomontages illustrating the Plan's potential as written; he showed the developer's architectural drawings dated several months before the Plan was issued to the public. One of those drawings is on page 1 of this recent flyer so the Plan proponents must think it is representative. It even shows the hotel used in the fiscal analysis to justify the cost.

    As citizens proceed with the democratic public process involved with a rezoning plan, areas of concern are bound to come to light. The issue that divides people is the response to those concerns. After hearing public officials say again and again that development would be greater under the General Plan than under NEAP, we finally don't hear that anymore. Why? Because the Planning Department was asked a specific question and in response it was made clear on page 11 of the July 15th report to the City Council: " It should be noted that existing General Plan traffic Level of Service standards would act as a brake on development that might otherwise be allowed under current zoning, and while the specific trigger point has not been identified, this could preclude development of large parcels such as the former lumber yard, empty areas of the former Barlow property, or the former Ford property, leaving them vacant or underdeveloped..." and "To allow for redevelopment and improvement of the area, the Plan proposes to eliminate the LOS standards for the Northeast and downtown areas."

    The reason for making a Specific Plan is to allow for improvement of the area since it probably won't happen otherwise. Not all the properties are blighted. Many people want to see the area improved but they want to protect the rest of town as well. When reasonable concerns are addressed with the mean-spiritedness I have seen here, I can understand why Guy Wilson is the best choice for City Council. It's time for a positive change.
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  22. TopTop #22
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    You are expressing quite a bit of hostility. I don't feel the town is divided. I have friends on the other side of this issue and I haven't crossed them out of my life. In addition, I have met many nice people through this process with really intelligent criticisms. This plan needs revision and we need someone who will compromise and listens to everyone. We will come up with a better plan if this happens.---Carol Mitchel

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Bird Watcher: View Post
    Magick--Yes, you four women have certainly done a number on this community. The problem is, it hasn’t been positive work. The speed and spread of the misinformation campaign about the NEAP has been astounding. You should take that fabulous energy to the County or State level and use it to get our fair share gas and property taxes back in Sebastopol where they belong.

    You’ve also managed to divide the community in a really mean-spirited way. Us vs. Them. The Green-bellied Sneetches vs. the Star-bellied Sneetches! Didn’t we learn anything from Dr. Seuss? Your group has intimidated people at City Council meetings with hisses and boos. No wonder no one wants to attend. Used to be, the worst part of a Council meeting was listening to the Jenkel crew...

    I lost all respect for Guy Wilson (whom I’ve known personally for over a decade) when, denouncing the Plan at a Council meeting, he stood before a Photo-shopped illustration that showed a glass-fronted building--lifted from the Orange County business-park stylebook--rising from the sidewalk along Sebastopol Ave.

    To even imply that the NEAP would allow such a thing is really dirty pool, because pictures are worth a thousand words, especially when people don’t have the time to read 400-odd pages of policy. Guy should be ashamed. My first thought was that he simply was not familiar with the actual Plan material. Later, and much worse, I realized he was intentionally going along with the misrepresentation and fear-mongering.

    The Northeast Area aside, what does SPC propose to bring future revenues to the City? How do you propose to keep people from driving from Bodega Bay to Santa Rosa or Forestville to Rohnert Park, along the highways that intersect downtown? Because that traffic will continue to get worse, downtown infill or no. How do you propose to stop population growth, economic cycles, the expansion of the universe? You can’t put Sebastopol in a bubble, stopped in time. It is subject to the same laws of physics as anywhere else.

    So go ahead, you four pat yourselves on the back. If Guy is elected to the Council and creates a majority in favor of stagnation, we’ll blame SPC when Sebastopol sinks into the quagmire of backward-looking policies and municipal decay, and eventually files for bankruptcy. If people, however, wish for leadership with logic, reason, graciousness and progressive thinking, they’ll vote for Jen Thille tomorrow.

    Pam Williams
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  23. TopTop #23
    CACole
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Well said GGBB!--We need an independent voice on the council. Vote Guy Wilson---Carol
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by GGBB: View Post
    This discussion is not only irrational, it is offensive. I think it is easy to forget our manners when we are alone with a computer screen and for that reason this will be my first and last posting before I unsubscribe.

    The NEAP requires careful consideration and perhaps modification but one would think it is this Plan as is, or no plan. That is just untrue and unrealistic. Why is that concept so difficult to consider?

    It is unclear whether the people posting comments have attended meetings because their "facts" are wrong. I did attend the Planning Commission and City Council public hearings and deliberations. Guy Wilson did not show the photomontages illustrating the Plan's potential as written; he showed the developer's architectural drawings dated several months before the Plan was issued to the public. One of those drawings is on page 1 of this recent flyer so the Plan proponents must think it is representative. It even shows the hotel used in the fiscal analysis to justify the cost.

    As citizens proceed with the democratic public process involved with a rezoning plan, areas of concern are bound to come to light. The issue that divides people is the response to those concerns. After hearing public officials say again and again that development would be greater under the General Plan than under NEAP, we finally don't hear that anymore. Why? Because the Planning Department was asked a specific question and in response it was made clear on page 11 of the July 15th report to the City Council: " It should be noted that existing General Plan traffic Level of Service standards would act as a brake on development that might otherwise be allowed under current zoning, and while the specific trigger point has not been identified, this could preclude development of large parcels such as the former lumber yard, empty areas of the former Barlow property, or the former Ford property, leaving them vacant or underdeveloped..." and "To allow for redevelopment and improvement of the area, the Plan proposes to eliminate the LOS standards for the Northeast and downtown areas."

    The reason for making a Specific Plan is to allow for improvement of the area since it probably won't happen otherwise. Not all the properties are blighted. Many people want to see the area improved but they want to protect the rest of town as well. When reasonable concerns are addressed with the mean-spiritedness I have seen here, I can understand why Guy Wilson is the best choice for City Council. It's time for a positive change.
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  24. TopTop #24
    Helen Shane's Avatar
    Helen Shane
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    My response goes to Howard's comments. I know that Howard is very articulate, so I wonder why in recent months he doesn't seem to be able to make his point without disparaging someone who disagrees with him.

    I refer to the lack of financial impact report for the NEAP mentioned by Dave Little, whom I believe attended many meetings and has read many documents. While a fiscal study was done for the Northeast Area, ostensibly setting out some of the costs of the development and its potential financial returns, what wasn't done, and what Dave Little refers to, is a financial impact statement analyzing what effect the new retail/commercial would have on existing businesses, which didn't seem to be much on the minds of those preparing the project, whoops, Plan.

    However, one thing the NEAP fiscal report did state is that 60% of the potential revenue for the new area would be drained from existing businesses.

    See Appendix C, table 7, of the Revised Draft of the Specific Plan. It clearly states that 40% of the retail sales tax would be "Net New Retail Sales". I believe that means that 60% comes from existing businesses.

    So that's why a financial impact analysis of the whole town is the only sensible tool to use to determine if the NEAP is a healthy project..whoops, Plan.

    That is why Guy Wilson joins some council members in urging that Sebastopol require Community Impact Reports prior to approval of projects.

    No project is a world until itself. Or rather, no project should be.
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  25. TopTop #25
    shellebelle
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Interesting

    I am glad you joined to comment on this event. It's important.

    But it is sad that you didn't feel this community worthy of being part of until this point.

    You joined today - you say you'll leave today. Your foot print will be lost very quickly and your impact will be forgotten within moments.

    If you really want to make a change stay, talk and be part of the community.

    See here there are a lot of us who invest. Not just in today but in tomorrow and next week even in next year and the next generation.

    We don't always agree but GOD would we be a bore if we did.

    We often disagree with passion. It's not about harm or anger but you would know that if you participated on any level. And if others think it is harm or anger well they need to ask intent rather than assuming.

    And I think in fact I know I said

    It's time to work in co-operation.

    Take the first step place some requirements on the record for zoning and redesign standards. Then if needed author another bill and tweak things further.

    Think of things in steps take one at a time until you reach the top.

    We aren't living in the past nor are we oblivious. We are intelligent and often highly self educated people. We make informed choices. We have in many of our views lives at stake, our own and our children's and our grand children's.

    You may have a presence on what ever level you have chosen but we have ours! We are a community who no matter the issue will throw down the gauntlet and hold true to ourselves while expressing our truth and our frustrations. Despite allt hat we are community - much like family just bigger.

    For you to come in and comment then leave well it's just sad. But in the end the loss is entirely yours.



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by GGBB: View Post
    This discussion is not only irrational, it is offensive. I think it is easy to forget our manners when we are alone with a computer screen and for that reason this will be my first and last posting before I unsubscribe.
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  26. TopTop #26
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Magick wrote:
    "Just a few of the positive visions were:
    A year round market, an organic community garden, an amphitheatre, maintaining and increasing appropriate small industry so we are more self suffincient.
    Housing above the 76 ft flood line with incubator businesses on the ground floor.
    An Environmental education center that would oversee a revitalization of area to create a model for other cities."


    These are all lovely ideas, but who is going to pay for them? The property owners cannot be forced to provide these amenities on their land and at their expense. One of the features of the plan is that it allows for developers to provide some of these amenities in exchange for being allowed to add another story on their bldgs.

    I don't really understand the outcry about 3 story bldgs. I think compact housing in the downtown is a fantastic idea. Come to Two Acre Wood to see what a bldg that is 3 stories high would look like. Quite attractive in my opinion. Two stories of housing over a sidewalk cafe? sounds good to me.

    And for example, on the current deserted Ford property, what would be wrong with a 4 story bldg there with interesting retail on the ground floor and housing above? I really don't understand some of the hysteria here and really really hope we can all work together to make this work.
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  27. TopTop #27

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Hi,

    I appreciate your comments; just want to correct the statement that Guy has been the only one with the courage to stand up against the current plan.

    I was the one who spoke of a modified plan several months ago; and then 2 other candidates began to use that term.

    I don't mean to take anything away from support for Guy. I would just like there to be accuracy with regard to my position for accountable development; and willingness to find the middle ground the majority of the community will embrace with positive passion!

    Thank you,

    Colleen Fernald

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Magick: View Post
    Dear Chris, I can't thank you enough for your astute summation of the situation.

    Here's my perspective...


    The situation, like you say, Chris is at a standstill. I have attended almost every council meeting, special and otherwise, for years and this is not what democracy looks like. From the beginning there has been an attempt to manufacture consent and we, the people, were shunted aside over and over again. Now we have been ignored, and, in condenscending tones, told that this is really the most sustainable way. The Bush doctrine in action..if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.

    Guy Wilson is the only candidate that has had the courage to stand up in the middle of this painful divide and speak in opposition to the plan as it stands.


    I know that members of the SPC and most everyone in this community would be glad to start anew with a Council that listens, responds and works hand in hand with the people so we can take care of each other and the natural world even through difficult times.
    Guy Wilson, Linda Kelley, and Sarah Gurney all are open to this kind of dialogue. They also endorse using Community Impact Reports, CIRs, as the latest tool for understanding real economic impacts. The businesses in this town are locally owned and operated, eclectic and unique...

    With Respect, Magick
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  28. TopTop #28
    Jen T.
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Dear Sebastopol Residents

    It seems like the tone of this discussion is getting way out of hand so please lets put our differences aside and at least be civil with one another. We are facing many serious challenges here in our community over the next 4 years and no one person or group has all of the answers. We all need to stop bickering and instead find ways to pitch in and do our part if we actually want things to get better. I truly believe that all of the candidates are good people with the best of intentions, so it comes down to whose vision for the future will you support? The only thing that I can truly promise you is this; I will work to the best of my ability for the betterment of all of Sebastopol and it's residents, both for this generation and for generations to come, and I will make decisions that fairly represent everyone in this community.

    I respectfully ask for your vote for Sebastopol City Council.

    Jen Thille
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  29. TopTop #29
    wildflower's Avatar
    wildflower
     

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

    Nice RHETORIC......
    Vote for Guy.
    He is not supporting development in the NEQ.
    wf
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jen T.: View Post
    Dear Sebastopol Residents

    It seems like the tone of this discussion is getting way out of hand so please lets put our differences aside and at least be civil with one another. We are facing many serious challenges here in our community over the next 4 years and no one person or group has all of the answers. We all need to stop bickering and instead find ways to pitch in and do our part if we actually want things to get better. I truly believe that all of the candidates are good people with the best of intentions, so it comes down to whose vision for the future will you support? The only thing that I can truly promise you is this; I will work to the best of my ability for the betterment of all of Sebastopol and it's residents, both for this generation and for generations to come, and I will make decisions that fairly represent everyone in this community.

    I respectfully ask for your vote for Sebastopol City Council.

    Jen Thille
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  30. TopTop #30
    Sybil de Ville
    Guest

    Re: Your city council vote will determine the future of Sebastopol - Vote wisely!

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