Gay marriages happier, more fair

[PeriodThree]

I find this NY Times article hilarious. It turns out the troglodytes who oppose gay marriage may have a point about the risk 'the gay' poses to 'the straight.' Without gender based differences gay couples are happier, have more balanced relationships, and fight more fairly, among other positives.

Gay marriage sounds ideal, now If only I can get over my preference for girly curves over boy bumps.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/h...in&oref=slogin

Gay Unions Shed Light on Gender in Marriage

By TARA PARKER-POPE
For insights into healthy marriages, social scientists are looking in an unexpected place.


A growing body of evidence shows that same-sex couples have a great deal to teach everyone else about marriage and relationships. Most studies show surprisingly few differences between committed gay couples and committed straight couples, but the differences that do emerge have shed light on the kinds of conflicts that can endanger heterosexual relationships.


The findings offer hope that some of the most vexing problems are not necessarily entrenched in deep-rooted biological differences between men and women. And that, in turn, offers hope that the problems can be solved.


Next week, California will begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, reigniting the national debate over gay marriage. But relationship researchers say it also presents an opportunity to study the effects of marriage on the quality of all relationships.


“When I look at what’s happening in California, I think there’s a lot to be learned to explore how human beings relate to one another,” said Sondra E. Solomon, an associate professor of psychology at the University of Vermont. “How people care for each other, how they share responsibility, power and authority — those are the key issues in relationships.”


The stereotype for same-sex relationships is that they do not last. But that may be due, in large part, to the lack of legal and social recognition given to same-sex couples. Studies of dissolution rates vary widely.


After Vermont legalized same-sex civil unions in 2000, researchers surveyed nearly 1,000 couples, including same-sex couples and their heterosexual married siblings. The focus was on how the relationships were affected by common causes of marital strife like housework, sex and money.


Notably, same-sex relationships, whether between men or women, were far more egalitarian than heterosexual ones. In heterosexual couples, women did far more of the housework; men were more likely to have the financial responsibility; and men were more likely to initiate sex, while women were more likely to refuse it or to start a conversation about problems in the relationship. With same-sex couples, of course, none of these dichotomies were possible, and the partners tended to share the burdens far more equally.


While the gay and lesbian couples had about the same rate of conflict as the heterosexual ones, they appeared to have more relationship satisfaction, suggesting that the inequality of opposite-sex relationships can take a toll.


“Heterosexual married women live with a lot of anger about having to do the tasks not only in the house but in the relationship,” said Esther D. Rothblum, a professor of women’s studies at San Diego State University.



“That’s very different than what same-sex couples and heterosexual men live with.”


Other studies show that what couples argue about is far less important than how they argue. The egalitarian nature of same-sex relationships appears to spill over into how those couples resolve conflict.


One well-known study used mathematical modeling to decipher the interactions between committed gay couples. The results, published in two 2003 articles in The Journal of Homosexuality, showed that when same-sex couples argued, they tended to fight more fairly than heterosexual couples, making fewer verbal attacks and more of an effort to defuse the confrontation.


Controlling and hostile emotional tactics, like belligerence and domineering, were less common among gay couples.
Same-sex couples were also less likely to develop an elevated heartbeat and adrenaline surges during arguments. And straight couples were more likely to stay physically agitated after a conflict.


“When they got into these really negative interactions, gay and lesbian couples were able to do things like use humor and affection that enabled them to step back from the ledge and continue to talk about the problem instead of just exploding,” said Robert W. Levenson, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley.


The findings suggest that heterosexual couples need to work harder to seek perspective. The ability to see the other person’s point of view appears to be more automatic in same-sex couples, but research shows that heterosexuals who can relate to their partner’s concerns and who are skilled at defusing arguments also have stronger relationships.


One of the most common stereotypes in heterosexual marriages is the “demand-withdraw” interaction, in which the woman tends to be unhappy and to make demands for change, while the man reacts by withdrawing from the conflict. But some surprising new research shows that same-sex couples also exhibit the pattern, contradicting the notion that the behavior is rooted in gender, according to an abstract presented at the 2006 meeting of the Association for Psychological Science by Sarah R. Holley, a psychology researcher at Berkeley.


Dr. Levenson says this is good news for all couples.


“Like everybody else, I thought this was male behavior and female behavior, but it’s not,” he said. “That means there is a lot more hope that you can do something about it.”

[Lenny]

This troglodytes recognizes propaganda when it is in front of them. Another example is the "factoid" on this AM radio about the $645M that will flow into California due to homosexual marriage! Some do not pound the drums slowly, but it will be relentless.

[MsTerry]

Domestic Violence in Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Relationships

Partner battering and abuse in Queer relationships: Domestic violence in the GLBT community is a serious issue. The rates of domestic violence in same-gender relationships is roughly the same as domestic violence against heterosexual women (25%). As in opposite-gendered couples, the problem is likely underreported. Facing a system which is often oppressive and hostile towards queers, those involved in same-gender battering frequently report being afraid of revealing their sexual orientation or the nature of their relationship. Others who do not identify as GLBT may not feel that their relationship fits the definition but may still be in an abusive and dangerous relationship. In many ways, domestic violence in lesbian, bisexual and gay relationships is the same as in opposite-gendered (e.g., heterosexually-paired) relationships: No one deserves to be abused. Abuse can be physical, sexual, emotional, psychological, and involve verbal behavior used to coerce, threaten or humiliate. Abuse often occurs in a cyclical fashion. The purpose of the abuse is to maintain control and power over one's partner. The abused partner feels alone, isolated and afraid, and is usually convinced that the abuse is somehow her or his fault, or could have been avoided if she or he knew what to do. Several important aspects of lesbian, bisexual, and gay relationships mean domestic violence is often experienced differently: In same-sex abuse, a pattern of violence or behaviors exists where one seeks to control the thoughts, beliefs, or conduct of their intimate partner, or to punish their partner for resisting their control. This may been seen as physical or sexual violence, or emotional and verbal abuse. An additional form of emotional abuse for someone who is gay, lesbian, or bisexual may be to “out” them at work or to family or friends.Local resources for domestic violence in the GLBT community are often scarce and many traditional domestic violence services lack the training, sensitivity, and expertise to adequately recognize and address abusive GLBT relationships. A Queer individual who is being battered must overcome homophobia and denial of the issue of battering. Lesbians, bisexuals and gay men who have been abused have much more difficulty in finding sources of support than heterosexual women who are battered by their male partners. Here are more ways same-gender domestic violence is unique: It is frequently incorrectly assumed that lesbian, bi and gay abuse must be "mutual." It is not often seen as being mutual in heterosexual battering. Utilizing existing services (such as a shelter, attending support groups or calling a crisis line) either means lying or hiding the gender of the batterer to be perceived (and thus accepted) as a heterosexual. Or it can mean "coming out", which is a major life decision. If lesbians, bi's and gays come out to service providers who are not discreet with this information, it could lead to the victim losing their home, job, custody of children, etc. This may also precipitate local and/or statewide laws to affect some of these changes, depending on the area. Telling heterosexuals about battering in a lesbian, bi or gay relationship can reinforce the myth many believe that lesbian, bi and gay relationships are "abnormal." This can further cause the victim to feel isolated and unsupported. The lesbian, bi and gay community is often not supportive of victims of battering because many want to maintain the myth that there are no problems (such as child abuse, alcoholism, domestic violence, etc.) in lesbian, bi and gay relationships. Receiving support services to help one escape a battering relationship is more difficult when there are also oppressions faced. Battered lesbians and female bisexuals automatically encounter sexism and homophobia, and gay and bisexual men encounter homophobia. Lesbian or gay people of color who are battered also face racism. These forms of social oppressions make it more difficult for these groups to get the support needed (legal, financial, social, housing, medical, etc.) to escape and live freely from an abusive relationship. Lesbian, bi and gay survivors of battering may not know others who are lesbian, bi or gay, meaning that leaving the abuser could result in total isolation. Lesbians, bisexuals and gays are usually not as tied financially to their partner, which can be a benefit if they decide to end the relationship. However, if their lives are financially intertwined, such as each paying a rent or mortgage and having "built a home together", they have no legal process to assist in making sure assets are evenly divided, a process which exists for their married, heterosexual counterparts. The lesbian, bi and gay community within the area may be small, and in all likelihood everyone the survivor knows will soon know of their abuse. Sides will be drawn and support may be difficult to find. Anonymity is not an option, a characteristic many heterosexual survivors can draw upon in "starting a new life" for themselves within the same city.

[MsTerry]

Gay And Lesbian Dating Violence Some of the dynamics of dating violence in gay and lesbian relationships differ from heterosexual relationships. For example, the way in which an abusive partner controls a relationship could be through threats of "outing" his/her partner to family, friends, coworkers and/or associates. Also, many abusive partners may suggest that police and counselors will be homophobic, thus causing the victim not to seek help. The myth that men can not be victims of abuse and that dating violence does not occur in lesbian relationships is simply that, a myth. Violence in gay and lesbian relationships occurs at the same rate as in heterosexual relationships. Some members of the gay and lesbian community may even discourage victims of dating violence from coming forward about the abuse that is occurring. This may happen because many lesbians and gay men believe that the amount of negative media surrounding the lesbian and gay community is overwhelming without adding sexual and dating violence to it. This way of thinking can be very dangerous, not just for the victims of dating violence, but for the community in general. Seeking Help Deciding whether or not to seek counseling is an important issue for the gay/lesbian/bisexual community. Victims may need to come out about being gay or lesbian, not only to the counselor, but also to the police if they choose to prosecute or file charges. Also, the victim will want to find a counselor that s/he feels comfortable with and one who feels comfortable working with lesbians and gays. There are many things to think about before a victim decides to seek help. Issues of internal and external homophobia are a main concern with many gays and lesbians. The institutionalized heterosexism that permeates society is a direct cause of the homophobia that exists in both the heterosexual and homosexual communities. Although it may seem difficult to combat such ingrained condition, coming forward about being a victim of dating violence is one way to acknowledge that dating violence occurs in the gay and lesbian community.

[PeriodThree]

Interesting to use the word 'propaganda.' Calling something 'Propaganda' without disputing the points is a variant of the ad hominem attack.

You don't have any actual information which disputes the point, so you attack the messenger. Oh well. As for the $645 million - I suspect that is a low figure, and it necessarily ignores the second order economic benefits, such as having more free time and money because you no longer need to spend time researching which of the many rights of marriage you need to gain in another 'separate but equal' fashion!

Your 'that is propaganda' attack is basically the same attack as Ms. Terry is using by polluting the thread with completely irrelevant pseudo-statistics.

A hint for Ms. Terry: you don't actually make much of a point against gay civil rights by quoting non-source material which says that domestic violence in gay relationships is the same as in straight relationships.

Assuming I actually believe these basically unsourced assertions, they suggest that violence among intimate partners is a general societal issue which can affect all of us, regardless of the gender which we choose for ourselves and which we prefer in our intimate partners.

This troglodytes recognizes propaganda when it is in front of them. Another example is the "factoid" on this AM radio about the $645M that will flow into California due to homosexual marriage! Some do not pound the drums slowly, but it will be relentless.

[MsTerry]

!

Your 'that is propaganda' attack is basically the same attack as Ms. Terry is using by polluting the thread with completely irrelevant pseudo-statistics.

.

Could you give us your unbiased statistics, maybe from a source without an agenda?

A hint for Ms. Terry: you don't actually make much of a point against gay civil rights by quoting non-source material which says that domestic violence in gay relationships is the same as in straight relationships.

check this out before you can't get your foot out of your mouth
https://www.lambda.org/DV_background.htm
https://www.lambda.org/

[PeriodThree]

My point is that saying gays have the same domestic violence issues as straights, and in the same numbers, doesn't say anything about my post that 'Gay Marriages are happier, more fair'

Trying to pollute the thread as you did by changing the subject is, well, changing the subject.

To quote myself, since you appear to have missed my point:

"Assuming I actually believe these basically unsourced assertions, they suggest that violence among intimate partners is a general societal issue which can affect all of us, regardless of the gender which we choose for ourselves and which we prefer in our intimate partners."

Could you give us your unbiased statistics, maybe from a source without an agenda?



check this out before you can't get your foot out of your mouth
https://www.lambda.org/DV_background.htm
https://www.lambda.org/

[MsTerry]

P3, It is nice to hear that you are so happy about yourself and your statements

My point is that saying gays have the same domestic violence issues as straights, and in the same numbers, doesn't say anything about my post that 'Gay Marriages are happier, more fair'

My point that there is just as much violence in gay relationships ( from what you call "unsourced", came from a gay organization) shows that maybeless gay relations are happy and fair.
And it makes you wonder where, how did they recruit these couples? Did they get them from the phonebook? Or were they just friends from the researchers? What criteria where used to select couples?
Before you want people to blindly (and happily) assume facts, give us some data so that one can make conclusions for one self.

Trying to pollute the thread as you did by changing the subject is, well, changing the subject.

Yes, violence is pollution.
Do you want me to just say happy or gay things?

[PeriodThree]

A copy of a web site FAQ is not a 'source' in any serious sense of the word 'source.'

Perhaps that is a problem with debate here on WACCO : too many people literally are not aware of the differences between primary and secondary sources, or between actual studies and purely anecdotal reports.

But be that as it may, as I have repeatedly written, if we accept your unsourced assertions that domestic violence in Gay relationships is the same as in straight relationships that says nothing other than 'gays and straights have this commonality.'

Okay. So let us accept your 'data.' (And yes, I am being intentionally abtuse towards your 'data' because you posted such weak links. Really: posting a FAQ from a University and calling that evidence? ) But let's accept your numbers.

So how does an _equal_ amount of domestic violence support your assertion that 'maybeless gay relations are happy and fair?'

Your evidence doesn't support your claims. And yes, posting weak evidence which, even if accepted doesn't advance your claims, is 'polluting the thread.'

You don't have evidence to refute what I posted, so you are posting, well, things that come out of the back of a bull.

P3, It is nice to hear that you are so happy about yourself and your statements


My point that there is just as much violence in gay relationships ( from what you call "unsourced", came from a gay organization) shows that maybeless gay relations are happy and fair.
And it makes you wonder where, how did they recruit these couples? Did they get them from the phonebook? Or were they just friends from the researchers? What criteria where used to select couples?
Before you want people to blindly (and happily) assume facts, give us some data so that one can make conclusions for one self.


Yes, violence is pollution.
Do you want me to just say happy or gay things?

[MsTerry]

LOL
P3, you need to read your own posts before you post and apply your "principles" to yourself!!!

You post a NY times article (secondary/third source) about some vague(only mentions some previous study's) and unclear(no data) research.
Several times now I have asked you to give us some REAL data.
But you won't, because you can't, because, well, "You don't have evidence to refute what I posted, so you are posting, well, things that come out of the back of a bull."

A copy of a web site FAQ is not a 'source' in any serious sense of the word 'source.'

Perhaps that is a problem with debate here on WACCO : too many people literally are not aware of the differences between primary and secondary sources, or between actual studies and purely anecdotal reports.

But be that as it may, as I have repeatedly written, if we accept your unsourced assertions that domestic violence in Gay relationships is the same as in straight relationships that says nothing other than 'gays and straights have this commonality.'

Okay. So let us accept your 'data.' (And yes, I am being intentionally abtuse towards your 'data' because you posted such weak links. Really: posting a FAQ from a University and calling that evidence? ) But let's accept your numbers.

So how does an _equal_ amount of domestic violence support your assertion that 'maybeless gay relations are happy and fair?'

Your evidence doesn't support your claims. And yes, posting weak evidence which, even if accepted doesn't advance your claims, is 'polluting the thread.'

You don't have evidence to refute what I posted, so you are posting, well, things that come out of the back of a bull.