Linda Kelley/Sam Pierce issue

[PeriodThree]

I am bothered by the recent dust up. During her court case Linda Kelley's attorney apparently made statements alleging a conspiracy between Sam Pierce and the Sebastopol police to falsely charge Kelley with vandalism.

Making charges like this would be against the Sebastopol Council code of conduct. Pierce attempted to have the council investigate the incident, but no other council member would second his motion.

Larry Robinson was not present, but the other two council members refused to second Pierce's motion. Since a motion requires a second, the council members were rather explicitly issuing a vote of confidence in Kelley by their failure to investigate the issue.

I am disgusted with Kelley's actions in this, and her drunk driving, but I am nearly as disgusted with our other council members and with Kelley's supporters.

I would like to specifically call out for criticisms Patricia Dines, Magik, and Helen Shane for their comments at the meeting. Shane gets special 'you are ignorant' points for her quote that Pierce's actions were 'unconstitutional.'

I am disgusted with Kelley, and think that drunk driving and vandalizing cars are pretty disgusting in a council member.

for her quote in the paper "

[thewholetruth]

I am bothered by the recent dust up. During her court case Linda Kelley's attorney apparently made statements alleging a conspiracy between Sam Pierce and the Sebastopol police to falsely charge Kelley with vandalism.

Making charges like this would be against the Sebastopol Council code of conduct. Pierce attempted to have the council investigate the incident, but no other council member would second his motion.

Larry Robinson was not present, but the other two council members refused to second Pierce's motion. Since a motion requires a second, the council members were rather explicitly issuing a vote of confidence in Kelley by their failure to investigate the issue.

I am disgusted with Kelley's actions in this, and her drunk driving, but I am nearly as disgusted with our other council members and with Kelley's supporters.

I would like to specifically call out for criticisms Patricia Dines, Magik, and Helen Shane for their comments at the meeting. Shane gets special 'you are ignorant' points for her quote that Pierce's actions were 'unconstitutional.'

I am disgusted with Kelley, and think that drunk driving and vandalizing cars are pretty disgusting in a council member.

for her quote in the paper "

I couldn't agree more and was amazed that the Sebastopol City Council cosigned their fellow councilmember's drunk driving and vandalism in this way, because that's exactly what they did. If they had any integrity, they would have fired her immediately. Instead, what did they do? Made her VICE MAYOR, for goodness sake! What a freak show! The Sebastopol City Council doesn't have any integrity (save perhaps Larry Robinson who wasn't there for this laughfest). If the plaintiff had any integrity she would have resigned a long time ago, right after her second arrest. Now the Sebastopol City Council, after regaining a little of it's collective respect by agreeing to reconsider the Wifi issue, has confirmed with a doubt that they are truly a world class laughing stock.

[MsTerry]

I am amazed that you are willing to vilify a person in public who has been acquitted of the accusation by jury of her peers.
Shame on you, unless you know something we don't know and the jury didn't know.

I am bothered by the recent dust up. During her court case Linda Kelley's attorney apparently made statements alleging a conspiracy between Sam Pierce and the Sebastopol police to falsely charge Kelley with vandalism.

Making charges like this would be against the Sebastopol Council code of conduct. Pierce attempted to have the council investigate the incident, but no other council member would second his motion.

Larry Robinson was not present, but the other two council members refused to second Pierce's motion. Since a motion requires a second, the council members were rather explicitly issuing a vote of confidence in Kelley by their failure to investigate the issue.

I am disgusted with Kelley's actions in this, and her drunk driving, but I am nearly as disgusted with our other council members and with Kelley's supporters.

I would like to specifically call out for criticisms Patricia Dines, Magik, and Helen Shane for their comments at the meeting. Shane gets special 'you are ignorant' points for her quote that Pierce's actions were 'unconstitutional.'

I am disgusted with Kelley, and think that drunk driving and vandalizing cars are pretty disgusting in a council member.

for her quote in the paper "

[Helen Shane]

Period Three's original tirade about the "dustup" displays his ignorance of the issues in this issue. I sense it would be useless to try to inform him on that score.

But I do feel compelled to explain my "unconstitutional" comment. I have it on good authority that it is probably unconstitutional to prevent anyone from defending themselves in legal testimony because of a "code of conduct" in their home town. Of course one cannot commit perjury. That too is illegal. But to curb comments by one's attorney, or the defendant herself in order to comply is depriving one of the right of a defense.

So I don't believe I am ignorant.

[shellebelle]

I'm sorry I'm now confused - wouldn't the "Code of Conduct" have prevented the entire incident?

IF Linda Kelley had held to an appropriate personal, social and business "Code of Conduct" would this conversation be happening on this board?

So in the end I am wondering - if she must defend her actions and people are asking for at the least an apology and perhaps restitution do you not think just maybe her conduct was unbecoming anyone let alone an educated City Council member?

Oh yeh and also had she been on "official" business (like had she been called to respond to an emergency with in the city) Sebastopol could have been sued. Or could be sued since this was the second event not the first so this obviously is not a "one time" event! Keep in mind the DUI was in Guerneville 2 weeks earlier, then the keying and next - whats next for her a person who obviously is having issues with self control.

But Helen if you choose to stand by her I appreciate your strength in friendship but please be also brave enough to drive for her and be that designated driver!

Period Three's original tirade about the "dustup" displays his ignorance of the issues in this issue. I sense it would be useless to try to inform him on that score.

But I do feel compelled to explain my "unconstitutional" comment. I have it on good authority that it is probably unconstitutional to prevent anyone from defending themselves in legal testimony because of a "code of conduct" in their home town. Of course one cannot commit perjury. That too is illegal. But to curb comments by one's attorney, or the defendant herself in order to comply is depriving one of the right of a defense.

So I don't believe I am ignorant.

[thewholetruth]

I'm sorry I'm now confused - wouldn't the "Code of Conduct" have prevented the entire incident?

IF Linda Kelley had held to an appropriate personal, social and business "Code of Conduct" would this conversation be happening on this board?

So in the end I am wondering - if she must defend her actions and people are asking for at the least an apology and perhaps restitution do you not think just maybe her conduct was unbecoming anyone let alone an educated City Council member?

Oh yeh and also had she been on "official" business (like had she been called to respond to an emergency with in the city) Sebastopol could have been sued. Or could be sued since this was the second event not the first so this obviously is not a "one time" event! Keep in mind the DUI was in Guerneville 2 weeks earlier, then the keying and next - whats next for her a person who obviously is having issues with self control.

But Helen if you choose to stand by her I appreciate your strength in friendship but please be also brave enough to drive for her and be that designated driver!

Very well said. Bravo to you!

How come the City Council doesn't think like that? I can tell you why, because everyone who compromises their integrity on someone else's behalf does so for the same reason: They're putting personalities before principles. Their friendship is more important than doing the right thing. It's as simple as that.

[Helen Shane]

Thanks for responding, Shellebelle. You have a good argument. However, it is flawed.

You assume that the alleged vandalism act was true. A jury was unable to find that.

I know Linda well, and have for about 10 years. She is too smart to have done a dumb thing like keying a car. So, yes, I defend her, and feel it would be a great loss for our town to lose her as a council member. And while I suppose Sam Pierce may himself have been misled, I feel that his actions were not that of a good neighbor and responsible council member, judging by his recent actions.

I am sorry that we have lost Sam's intellect, as well as the fact that he has made some very salient points about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Specific Plan.

But I am not sorry that he is off the council.

[PeriodThree]

Helen,

Ignorance of the issues? Did Kelley drive drunk? Yes.

Did Kelley key scratch Pierce's friend's car? Almost certainly. Her paying of damages to him certainly implies her guilt.

Did the council refuse to investigate the publically reported allegations that Kelley's attorney accused Pierce and the police of conspiracy? Yes, the council did refuse to investigate.

Do you have any other 'facts' to offer?

As for your Constitutional knowledge: it appears to be as thin as your other arguments. There is no way in which Pierce asking for an investigation after the legal matter was settled prevented Kelley from defending herself.

If Kelley's attorney said what it appears was said than that goes far beyond legally appropriate behavior.

Slandering the Police and a fellow council member is not acceptable behavior. I personally assume that Kelley did this, since the kind of person who would do what Kelley has done has no honor at all.

Period Three's original tirade about the "dustup" displays his ignorance of the issues in this issue. I sense it would be useless to try to inform him on that score.

But I do feel compelled to explain my "unconstitutional" comment. I have it on good authority that it is probably unconstitutional to prevent anyone from defending themselves in legal testimony because of a "code of conduct" in their home town. Of course one cannot commit perjury. That too is illegal. But to curb comments by one's attorney, or the defendant herself in order to comply is depriving one of the right of a defense.

So I don't believe I am ignorant.

[Helen Shane]

Dear Period Three - please refer to my post to Shellebelle.

I looked up your profile, and after reading it, I think I will not respond to you further. I now know that you and I don't speak the same language. Your self description is:

"I have some Conservative, some Liberal POV about things. I consider myself a Moderate, interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth with a particular distaste for the "Gray Area", in which we attempt to compromise right & wrong and good & evil. Right and wrong are black and white, IMO. No wiggle room for selfishness"

Sincerely, Helen Shane

[PeriodThree]

I am confused, as that doesn't appear to be in my profile.

Dear Period Three - please refer to my post to Shellebelle.

I looked up your profile, and after reading it, I think I will not respond to you further. I now know that you and I don't speak the same language. Your self description is:

"I have some Conservative, some Liberal POV about things. I consider myself a Moderate, interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth with a particular distaste for the "Gray Area", in which we attempt to compromise right & wrong and good & evil. Right and wrong are black and white, IMO. No wiggle room for selfishness"

Sincerely, Helen Shane

[PeriodThree]

By refusing to investigate the council engaged in the same behavior as the Bush administration when they refuse to investigate allegations of wrongdoing.

Kelley's attorney either did or did not make those charges. If the charges were made they were either true, in which case Sam Pierce and the Police engaged in a politically motivated prosecution, or the charges were not true, in which case Kelley or her attorney slandered Pierce and the Sebastopol police department.

I assert that by not seconding the motion to investigate herself that Kelley has tacitly admitted to the charges.

Ethical and open government requires our public servants to be ethical and open. Kelley's behavior here does not meet that bar.

Kelley is clearly not too smart to avoid dumb behavior, as her drunk driving conviction demonstrates. No one is too smart to avoid dumb behavior.

Pierce remained publicly silent about the case until the legal issues were resolved. Your accusation that his actions "were not that of a good neighbor and responsible council member" are hateful and destructive.

Thanks for responding, Shellebelle. You have a good argument. However, it is flawed.

You assume that the alleged vandalism act was true. A jury was unable to find that.

I know Linda well, and have for about 10 years. She is too smart to have done a dumb thing like keying a car. So, yes, I defend her, and feel it would be a great loss for our town to lose her as a council member. And while I suppose Sam Pierce may himself have been misled, I feel that his actions were not that of a good neighbor and responsible council member, judging by his recent actions.

I am sorry that we have lost Sam's intellect, as well as the fact that he has made some very salient points about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Specific Plan.

But I am not sorry that he is off the council.

[Helen Shane]

Period Three: I truly beg your pardon. That appears in the profile of Donc. I apologize. Helen Shane

[Helen Shane]

The more this is talked about, the more I am convinced that Linda Kelley was tried in the newspapers, not in the courtroom or in personal conversations with any of the people who witnessed anything or even heard witnesses court testimony.

I think I will not comment further.

I will continue to support Linda.

I will continue to inform people who want to know about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Plan and its impacts on the whole community.

Happy Mothers Day to those readers who are mothers.

Signing off

Helen Shane

[Valley Oak]

What is the 'Northeast Area Plan?'

Thanks,

Edward

The more this is talked about, the more I am convinced that Linda Kelley was tried in the newspapers, not in the courtroom or in personal conversations with any of the people who witnessed anything or even heard witnesses court testimony.

I think I will not comment further.

I will continue to support Linda.

I will continue to inform people who want to know about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Plan and its impacts on the whole community.

Happy Mothers Day to those readers who are mothers.

Signing off

Helen Shane

[Sybil de Ville]

Sam Pierce was tried and convicted in the Council Meeting.

The more this is talked about, the more I am convinced that Linda Kelley was tried in the newspapers, not in the courtroom or in personal conversations with any of the people who witnessed anything or even heard witnesses court testimony.

I think I will not comment further.

I will continue to support Linda.

I will continue to inform people who want to know about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Plan and its impacts on the whole community.

Happy Mothers Day to those readers who are mothers.

Signing off

Helen Shane

[mykil]

See, know this is the reason I no longer drink, I am really afraid I might get behind the wheel and hurt of kill someone. But the key thingy, ya, now that was too adorable, I mean come on now, you an feel the passion and anger, the childish nature and everything else just oozing from this woman is was like laughable and even tolerable in knowing we have people with this nature trying to run our own small community. Who’s in charge once again? Reminds me of that dude last years that put a contract out on his fellow board member in Mendocino for control of the water board. The things these people will do to stay in office is just… Something in the water? ROTFLMFAO!!!

[thewholetruth]

Sam Pierce was tried and convicted in the Council Meeting.

Sam Pierce was a victim of gossip. Nothing more. Gossip. That's what you call it when you assassinate someone's character without them in the room.

That's what a complete lack of character and integrity the Sebastopol City Council has collectively now. Someone should have put a stop to it as soon as Sam left the room. The Mayor, for example. But no. 7th grade gossipers, all who participated after he left.

[shellebelle]

Actually the 9-3 vote, the fact she did not want to tempt a retrial and the fact she agreed to a fine all tell me she is guilty. People of Linda Kelley's stature, education and social status do not need to plea bargain to gain anything but their freedom.

https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/artic...&template=kart

The above article is articulate and seems to explain both sides.

I appreciate you standing by your friend. 10 years is a long relationship. Sadly Linda didn't feel she could call you to drive for her apparently and when she was out of control again just a few weeks later she did not call a friend either. And from what I can see the second event was while she was in her "first-time drunken-driver's course" and while her license.

With friends like Linda Kelley I am wondering why you need enemies. Then from an energy space I wonder - How's your life? What are you manifesting? And why would you want the energy Linda Kelley is stirring in your life by choice?

Again I plead

DO NOT LET HER DRIVE! Get her sober!

Thanks for responding, Shellebelle. You have a good argument. However, it is flawed.

You assume that the alleged vandalism act was true. A jury was unable to find that.

I know Linda well, and have for about 10 years. She is too smart to have done a dumb thing like keying a car. So, yes, I defend her, and feel it would be a great loss for our town to lose her as a council member. And while I suppose Sam Pierce may himself have been misled, I feel that his actions were not that of a good neighbor and responsible council member, judging by his recent actions.

I am sorry that we have lost Sam's intellect, as well as the fact that he has made some very salient points about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Specific Plan.

But I am not sorry that he is off the council.

[thewholetruth]

The plaintiff was tried in the courtroom like everyone else, with an all woman/lesbian jury her attorney hand-picked. She still couldn't manage an acquittal.

I am flabbergasted that anyone is even defending her actions. Drunk driving and vandalism charges. How many folks have racked up a record like that in 4 months time? How many adults have even been CHARGED with vandalism, ever? It takes an extremely out of control individual to put themselves in a position where they are charged with both drunk driving and vandalism in less than 4 months. That people are even defending her says as much about them as it does about the plaintiff.

Sam had/has the integrity to wait until the trial was over before he even opened him mouth about this, and then, only to ask that an inquiry into alleged slander by the plaintiff's attorney. He is the only one who has shown any integrity in this case of drunk driving and vandalism...and now he's gone from the Sebastopol City Council. All that's left are supposed leaders who let the plaintiff's friends publicly gossip about Sam at the last meeting.

The way the members of the Sebastopol City Council who were present that night conducted themselves, and the plaintiff's immature out-of-control behavior that started all this, is pathetic.

Sooooo, have your say and then walk away? That shows a lot of integrity.

Oh, wait...

The more this is talked about, the more I am convinced that Linda Kelley was tried in the newspapers, not in the courtroom or in personal conversations with any of the people who witnessed anything or even heard witnesses court testimony.

I think I will not comment further.

I will continue to support Linda.

I will continue to inform people who want to know about the inadequacies of the Northeast Area Plan and its impacts on the whole community.

Happy Mothers Day to those readers who are mothers.

Signing off

Helen Shane

[shellebelle]

In this article Andy Martinez - Linda Kelley's Attorney for the two incidents - is stated to have suggested

but her attorney suggested Zinsley, Pierce and Sebastopol police had some kind of political motive to accuse Kelley

That should be enough for an investigation and to pull the public records of the trial.

Again if the City of Sebastopol does not have an Ethics Standard that prohibits and removes from office those who endanger the public and then PAYS for their defense . . . well its time for a review.

https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/artic...&template=kart

https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/artic...&template=kart

Prosecutors said Kelley keyed Zinsley's pickup because she was angry he was parked near her house in a space she considered hers. Zinsley was parked in front of the house of Kelley's neighbor, fellow Council Member Sam Pierce.

At trial, Kelley denied damaging Zinsley's truck. She acknowledged the early-morning confrontation with Zinsley on the street, but her attorney suggested Zinsley, Pierce and Sebastopol police had some kind of political motive to accuse Kelley.

The agreement compensates Zinsley for the scratch attributed to Kelley and for some of his lost time traveling to Sonoma County for the trial, Gomez said. Zinsley agreed to the compromise, she said.

With Kelley's plea, the DUI charge will become a conviction that can be charged as a prior if she is arrested again on a drunken-driving case, Gomez said.

Andy Martinez, her attorney in the DUI case, said the low-level DUI charge, called a "wet-reckless," was appropriate.

"It's a good resolution to everything," he said.

Kelley was stopped by a Sonoma County sheriff's deputy in May after he said he saw her driving 10 mph in a 25-mph zone on Main Street in Guerneville at 2:15 a.m.

Kelley's blood-alcohol level tested at 0.09 percent. The legal limit for driving is 0.08 percent.

This is a woman whose decisions on a personal and safety level are more than suspect and she is being allowed to make decisions for the City of Sebastopol. I find this reprehensible!

[shellebelle]

The Northeast Plan can be found both on Wacco by doing a search or by going to the City web page. The basic concept of the plan is to remove a blighted area that is not going to improve without intention and intentionally change it to create more flow into the city and more business for the city.

With a deficit of $400,000 the city needs as many way to increase income as possible without potentially taxing the 8500 people who call Sebastopol home.

This major change would end the potential for blight and all the negatives that come with it while potentially increasing the monetary flow of the City.

I've seen similar plans have great success in City's like Fullerton and Brea CA. Of course there are many neighborhoods in San Francisco that have benefited from such plans.

What is the 'Northeast Area Plan?'

Thanks,

Edward

[shellebelle]

Ms Terry,

She was not acquitted. She plea bargained when she realized that the jury deadlocked at 9-3 and that a retrial would have potentially be a loss.

https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/artic...&template=kart

I am amazed that you are willing to vilify a person in public who has been acquitted of the accusation by jury of her peers.
Shame on you, unless you know something we don't know and the jury didn't know.

[thewholetruth]

I am confused, as that doesn't appear to be in my profile.

It appears that Helen meant to lob that rock at me. Fortunately it wasn't a big rock. Funny that she thinks we don't speak the same language because that's not true. Where we differ, IMO, isn't in the language that we speak. I think it has to do with having/not having the courage of our convictions in a public discussion. I like to discuss things openly and honestly and without reservation, with people who agree or don't agree with me. Some people aren't comfortable with that approach to dialogue, even on an anonymous message board.

[thewholetruth]

Ms Terry,

She was not acquitted. She plea bargained when she realized that the jury deadlocked at 9-3 and that a retrial would have potentially be a loss.

https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/artic...&template=kart

Which means she wasn't confident that she would win a retrial. If she were confident and/or innocent, she wouldn't have had her attorney plea bargain her way out of this mess, she wouldn't have paid anyone anything, and she would be looking forward to the retrial.

Thanks for clarifying that for someone who was obviously misinformed.

[MsTerry]

. If she were confident and/or innocent, she wouldn't have had her attorney plea bargain her way out of this mess, she wouldn't have paid anyone anything, and she would be looking forward to the retrial.
.

This is one of your overly broad, insensitive and uninformed postings.
How many people would rather pay $500 instead of several thousands of attorneys fees plus loss of work income plus emotional stress? Besides how many people can you name that have gone to trial for keying a car?
After all it was YOU who told Zeno" you can't prove a negative."

[PeriodThree]

I think I agree with you - it is easier and cheaper to pay $500 than to go through the full legal process.

What confuses me is that the case actually went to trial. I've seen reference to settlement talks before the trial. Which makes sense - as you point out it is easier and cheaper to pay a fine than go through trial.

As for the question of how many people go to trial for keying a car, I have no idea. The owner of the truck claimed it was Kelley. Kelley was unable to come to an agreement to avoid a trial. In that case it seems a trial is the only option.

This is one of your overly broad, insensitive and uninformed postings.
How many people would rather pay $500 instead of several thousands of attorneys fees plus loss of work income plus emotional stress? Besides how many people can you name that have gone to trial for keying a car?
After all it was YOU who told Zeno" you can't prove a negative."

[shellebelle]

I agree on some level if it were you or me. But it wasn't. And my attorney's would not have "plea bargained" if I was innocent.

What did she really have to lose?

Lets look at this. This is how I see this. I may be off and please show me if I am. Now these are all "what ifs"in essence. But ya know 2+2=4.

If she had a retrial - she was already potentially going to lose. The prosecutor knew what had not been emphasized in the first and what the critical components were for the retrial.

The two is her drunk driving some how got tied with the vandalism so how would this come to be - oh by being drunk. This potentially means that she was drunk when the cops showed up and had been drunk or was drunk in public and that would potentially be a violation of her probation.

Now three if the retrial was lost, if the two cases were tied due to intoxication THEN her drunk driving would potentially move into a felony.

This is one of your overly broad, insensitive and uninformed postings.
How many people would rather pay $500 instead of several thousands of attorneys fees plus loss of work income plus emotional stress? Besides how many people can you name that have gone to trial for keying a car?
After all it was YOU who told Zeno" you can't prove a negative."

[shellebelle]

here Ed I found the Wacco link

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...8075#post58075

What is the 'Northeast Area Plan?'

Thanks,

Edward

[Zeno Swijtink]

The two is her drunk driving some how got tied with the vandalism so how would this come to be - oh by being drunk. This potentially means that she was drunk when the cops showed up and had been drunk or was drunk in public and that would potentially be a violation of her probation.

"Some how got tied ..." Only in the PD, since she is a public figure. These were legally two independent cases.

[shellebelle]

Hmmmm Re-read looks to me like her attorney tied them together which would mean two inebriation cases from my view.

Again we will only know by pulling the court records.

"Some how got tied ..." Only in the PD, since she is a public figure. These were legally two independent cases.