How to make America safe!

[MsTerry]

More convicted felons allowed to enlist in Army, Marines

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer 40 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.

Data released by a congressional committee shows the number of soldiers admitted to the Army with felony records jumped from 249 in 2006 to 511 in 2007. And the number of Marines with felonies rose from 208 to 350.
Those numbers represent a fraction of the more than 180,000 recruits brought in by the active duty Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines during fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2007. But they highlight a trend that has raised concerns both within the military and on Capitol Hill.
The bulk of the crimes involved were burglaries, other thefts, and drug offenses, but nine involved sex crimes and six involved manslaughter or vehicular homicide convictions. Several dozen Army and Marine recruits had aggravated assault or robbery convictions, including incidents involving weapons.
Both the Army and Marine Corps have been struggling to increase their numbers as part of a broader effort to meet the combat needs of a military fighting wars on two fronts. As a result, the number of recruits needing waivers for crimes or other bad conduct has grown in recent years, as well as those needing medical or aptitude waivers.
House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, who released the data, noted that there may be valid reasons for granting the waivers and giving individuals a second chance.
But he added, "Concerns have been raised that the significant increase in the recruitment of persons with criminal records is a result of the strain put on the military by the Iraq war and may be undermining military readiness."
The services use a waiver process to let in recruits with felony convictions, and many of the crimes were committed when the service members were juveniles.
"Waivers are used judiciously and granted only after a thorough review," Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said.
He added that "low unemployment, a protracted war on terror, a decline in propensity to serve," and the growing reluctance of parents, teachers and other adults to recommend young people go into the military, has made recruiting a challenge.
According to the Army, 18 percent of the recruits needed conduct waivers in fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2007, compared to 15 percent in the 12-month period ending in Sept. 30, 2006.
"We are growing the Army fast and there are some waivers; we know that," said Army Lt. Gen. James D. Thurman, deputy chief of staff for operations. "It hasn't alarmed us yet."
He added that "the better part of making soldiers is about leadership. Somebody invested in me, you know. That's the beauty of the United States Army. It's about leadership ... You've got to give people an opportunity to serve."
Late last fall, the Pentagon quietly began looking for ways to make it easier for people with minor criminal records to join the military. The goal of that review is to make cumbersome waiver requirements consistent across the services — the Army, Marine Corps, Navy and Air Force — and reduce the number of petty crimes that now trigger the process.
According to the data released Monday, a bit more than half of the Army's 511 convictions in 2007 were for various types of thefts, ranging from burglaries to bad checks and stolen cars. Another 130 were for drug offenses.
The remainder, however, included two in 2007 for manslaughter, compared to one in 2006; five for sexual crimes (which can include rape, incest or sexual assaults) compared to two in 2006; and three for negligent or vehicular homicide, compared to two in 2006. Two received waivers for terrorist threats including bomb threats in 2007, compared to one in 2006.
At least 235 of the Marine Corps' 350 waivers were for various types of thefts in 2007, and another 63 were for assaults or robberies that may also have included use of a weapon. The remainder included one for manslaughter in 2007, compared to none in 2006; four for sex crimes, compared to one in 2006; and five for terror threats, including bomb threats, compared to two in 2006.
The total number of sailors who received felony waivers dipped from 48 in 2006 to 42 in 2007. Most were for a variety of thefts or drug and drunk driving convictions. Two in 2007 were for terror or bomb threats compared to three in 2006.
There were no Air Force recruits with waivers for felony convictions in 2007.
Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that offering waivers for those who are otherwise qualified "is the right thing to do for those Americans who want to answer the call to duty." He said the burden remains on them to prove they should be admitted to the service.
Waivers must be approved by an officer who is ranked as a brigadier general or above, and recruits must have written recommendations and endorsements from community leaders showing they would be a good bet for the military.

[Braggi]

More convicted felons allowed to enlist in Army, Marines
...

Is this a bad thing? I don't know. I don't know.

Some pretty useless kids without any notion of discipline have been turned into mature adults in the military. And these days looking at somebody the "wrong" way is a sex crime. Terror or bomb threats? I've heard of kindergarten kids arrested for yelling they wanted to kill someone. Seems to me kids yell like that to their siblings all the time.

Anyway, perhaps it's better if they're going to Iraq than staying here in the US. (No, that doesn't feel right either.)

The whole idea is a little nervous making. Perhaps they'll make good mercenaries for Blackwater some day.

BTW, Haliburton's profits are up 5.8% as announced today. Thanks GW.

-Jeff

[thewholetruth]

Dealing with felons on a daily basis, I can't support sending them overseas to kill people. That is exactly the worse thing we could do with people who are so broken they refuse to submit to Society's authority or rules. Rehabilitation is possible for felons, even repeat offenders, but sending them off to kill people isn't going to help. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Incarceration in and of itself, btw, does not rehabilitate people. Watching some of the new shows like Jail and the peeks inside the prisons in America prove that there is nothing rehabilitating going on in prison. Oh, except in rare cases, when folks find the Lord there.

Don

Is this a bad thing? I don't know. I don't know.

Some pretty useless kids without any notion of discipline have been turned into mature adults in the military. And these days looking at somebody the "wrong" way is a sex crime. Terror or bomb threats? I've heard of kindergarten kids arrested for yelling they wanted to kill someone. Seems to me kids yell like that to their siblings all the time.

Anyway, perhaps it's better if they're going to Iraq than staying here in the US. (No, that doesn't feel right either.)

The whole idea is a little nervous making. Perhaps they'll make good mercenaries for Blackwater some day.

BTW, Haliburton's profits are up 5.8% as announced today. Thanks GW.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

Well, is it a bad thing?
I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward.
But actually I am more concerned about what happens to those people after they come back.
Would you want to live next to an ex-felon who is now trained to kill people?
What happens to his war-trauma?

Is this a bad thing? I don't know. I don't know.

Some pretty useless kids without any notion of discipline have been turned into mature adults in the military. And these days looking at somebody the "wrong" way is a sex crime. Terror or bomb threats? I've heard of kindergarten kids arrested for yelling they wanted to kill someone. Seems to me kids yell like that to their siblings all the time.

Anyway, perhaps it's better if they're going to Iraq than staying here in the US. (No, that doesn't feel right either.)

The whole idea is a little nervous making. Perhaps they'll make good mercenaries for Blackwater some day.

BTW, Haliburton's profits are up 5.8% as announced today. Thanks GW.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Well, is it a bad thing?
[snip]
Would you want to live next to an ex-felon who is now trained to kill people?
What happens to his war-trauma?

Well, as I said, some people who are basically societal waste cases become useful, productive members of society after military training. I'm sure some would become mass murderers without military training but become socially healed with it. I personally know of one such person.

But actually going to war is another issue. Training and discipline can be good things. Experience in war can bring lifetime torment to a healthy person. It must be so much worse for someone with a really damaged or otherwise ill formed personality.

And then, as I mentioned, some people who are convicted of "crimes" haven't done anything most of the rest of us have done. They just got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time or had their actions viewed through the narrow lens of the law as criminal regardless of intent or harm caused. Not all "felons" are criminals at heart. Each case is reviewed, as mentioned in the article that was posted. Hopefully the sociopaths are being filtered out. I fear not.

In any case, let's work together to end this stupid "war" that's not really a war.

-Jeff

[ChristineL]

Interesting, Gays without a mark on their records are not wanted by the armed forces and kicked out should it become known they actually are. Maybe rapists and other criminals can enlist on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic and venting.

[Lenny]

Well, is it a bad thing?
I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward.
But actually I am more concerned about what happens to those people after they come back.
Would you want to live next to an ex-felon who is now trained to kill people?
What happens to his war-trauma?

Easy does it.
I would find it easy to live next door to a guy whose been given military discipline, especially after he's been given a second chance to do what young men do: screw up.
Do you think that there is an ex felon that HASN'T thought and-or talked about killing others?
Besides the article is bunk. More stuff to denigrate the military. Out of 180,000 guys, fewer than 900 had records! And those were carefully vented, up and down the line, and deemed OK.
More scare and tear tactics for you to feed upon.
Don't buy into it.

[thewholetruth]

"I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward."

Never heard that story. Perhaps it only circulated in ultraLiberal circles, as I don't think anyone else would buy it.

Don

Well, is it a bad thing?
I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward.
But actually I am more concerned about what happens to those people after they come back.
Would you want to live next to an ex-felon who is now trained to kill people?
What happens to his war-trauma?

[Braggi]

"I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward."

Never heard that story. Perhaps it only circulated in ultraLiberal circles, as I don't think anyone else would buy it.

Don

Oh my God, Don. Do you live under a rock? You must be the only person in the US that hasn't heard of this.

Here you go: https://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/071206JARRAR.shtml

You can google "raped killed burned iraqi" and find dozens of articles.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

My son is 12 too, and he does the same thing.
Whatever you say, he'll say; "What's your proof" or "what's so bad about that".
He hasn't used the word communist or liberal yet, but then again he doesn't listen to Bimbaugh either

"I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward."

Never heard that story. Perhaps it only circulated in ultraLiberal circles, as I don't think anyone else would buy it.

Don

[Lenny]

"I am sure you heard about the Iraqi family that got killed so that 4 US soldiers could rape, kill and burn the teenage daughter afterward."

Never heard that story. Perhaps it only circulated in ultraLiberal circles, as I don't think anyone else would buy it. Don

Actually it was often and widely disseminated. It may be that you just don't like bad news.
But most rarely circulated is anything of the good that may happen there. What is promulgated is mostly done to discourage any resolve the US may have had. The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same.

[Braggi]

...
But most rarely circulated is anything of the good that may happen there. What is promulgated is mostly done to discourage any resolve the US may have had. ...

Huh? All you hear from the mainstream media is how great "the surge" is working. You never hear about how many Iraqi casualties there are. The numbers aren't even being counted by the US. You have to read foreign journalists or listen to Pacifica radio if you want to find out anything meaningful about the harm we're doing in Iraq whether it's harm to Iraq or harm to our own soldiers.

Yes, our "resolve" should be discouraged. It's a sickness. It's time to leave. It's always been time to leave. We never should have invaded. (That's my "spin.")

...
The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same.

OK. I always wonder when people use the term "propaganda" as though it were a communist plot. The Soviet Union certainly produced their share of it and much of it was questionable at best. But just because something is propaganda doesn't mean it's false; only that it is being put to a political use. All of the presidential campaign ads are propaganda. That doesn't mean they aren't true (OK, bad example).

When one hears or reads propaganda, the reasonable approach is to read the propaganda of other and opposing sources. Assume "spin." Read other sources. Give thanks for the Web.

-Jeff

[thewholetruth]

"It may be that you just don't like bad news."

More accurately, I no longer subscribe to newspapers because they are nothing more than bad news. Rarely is there anything in them (the PD and the Chronicle) that is encouraging. Rarely. Since I stopped reading the paper from front to back like I did my whole life, my whole attitude has changed for the better.

That said, however, I've taken to reading it online. I watch the news (CNN, FOX, ABC/NBC/CBS, ESPN - hey, it's news! LOL) and follow threads on the internet about stories I find interesting.

"The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same."

Amen. When facts about anything are "spun", it becomes less than the truth, because it either becomes untrue or it simply offers one aspect/POV/perception about it, which, as we all much know by now, is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when we withhold part of the information, or just hold up PART of the information. That renders the story/report of a given incident what we call "partially true" or "spun".

Don

Actually it was often and widely disseminated. It may be that you just don't like bad news.
But most rarely circulated is anything of the good that may happen there. What is promulgated is mostly done to discourage any resolve the US may have had. The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same.

[MsTerry]

Actually it was often and widely disseminated. It may be that you just don't like bad news.
But most rarely circulated is anything of the good that may happen there. What is promulgated is mostly done to discourage any resolve the US may have had. .

Disseminated???? NO, they were shot point blank and burned.
Lenny, I am not sure where you are going with this, but the soldiers have been convicted. You are right, even though they got off with a slap on their hand for murder, it was a good thing that they were convicted.

The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same

Every time people use the word propaganda, I have to laugh.
Propaganda in Spanish means advertising.
WE ARE SURROUNDED BY PROPAGANDA ABOUT HOW GREAT THE US IS!!!!!
Slogans like; You deserve it. The good things in life. The best you can be. This one is for you.
are designed to make you believe that happiness is just around the corner, all you have to do is BUY something.

[Zeno Swijtink]

But most rarely circulated is anything of the good that may happen there.

I agree we need more good news. We need to disseminate more positive stories and developments in the country.

[MsTerry]

I agree we need more good news. We need to disseminate more positive stories and developments in the country.

That is a very interesting comment from someone who mainly posts the not-so-good-news in waccoreader........................

[Zeno Swijtink]

I agree we need more good news. We need to disseminate more positive stories and developments in the country.

Come to think of it, when I lived in Warsaw, Poland, in 1976/7, and studied math and philosophy there , it were the communist newspapers that were always full of positive stories, and you had to read the catholic papers to get some of the more exiting, bad news.

[MsTerry]

Communists====== good news
Catholics========bad news
Philosophers=======so/so news

Come to think of it, when I lived in Warsaw, Poland, in 1976/7, and studied math and philosophy there , it were the communist newspapers that were always full of positive stories, and you had to read the catholic papers to get some of the more exiting, bad news.

[Sara S]

I don't think you could call this "encouraging" in the sense you probably mean, but it's encouraging to me whenever more truth gets outed:

===== Mark Morford's Notes & Errata =====
SFGate.com - Friday, April 25, 2008
All the president's liars
Fun new game! Which TV news "military expert" is really a whore for the Bush administration? (Hint: all of them)
By Mark Morford

Did it work? Were you duped?

Were you calmly and methodically and rather nefariously led to believe that maybe, just maybe, the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and the rest, right along with tales of soldier suicides and torture and staggering civilian body counts and the utterly disastrous Bush military policy weren't really all that bad after all?

For the rest of this column go to sfgate.com

"It may be that you just don't like bad news."

More accurately, I no longer subscribe to newspapers because they are nothing more than bad news. Rarely is there anything in them (the PD and the Chronicle) that is encouraging. Rarely. Since I stopped reading the paper from front to back like I did my whole life, my whole attitude has changed for the better.

That said, however, I've taken to reading it online. I watch the news (CNN, FOX, ABC/NBC/CBS, ESPN - hey, it's news! LOL) and follow threads on the internet about stories I find interesting.

"The "facts" may be reported in a manner to do so. And when done "correctly" it is called propoganda. Others may call it "spin". But the end result is the same."

Amen. When facts about anything are "spun", it becomes less than the truth, because it either becomes untrue or it simply offers one aspect/POV/perception about it, which, as we all much know by now, is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when we withhold part of the information, or just hold up PART of the information. That renders the story/report of a given incident what we call "partially true" or "spun".

Don

[Lenny]

Could "the truth" be that which supports our POV?

I don't think you could call this "encouraging" in the sense you probably mean, but it's encouraging to me whenever more truth gets outed:

===== Mark Morford's Notes & Errata =====
SFGate.com - Friday, April 25, 2008
All the president's liars
Fun new game! Which TV news "military expert" is really a whore for the Bush administration? (Hint: all of them)
By Mark Morford
Did it work? Were you duped?
Were you calmly and methodically and rather nefariously led to believe that maybe, just maybe, the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and the rest, right along with tales of soldier suicides and torture and staggering civilian body counts and the utterly disastrous Bush military policy weren't really all that bad after all?For the rest of this column go to sfgate.com

[Lenny]

I wish I could QUOTE in those cool boxes.....but...
The media I listen to, mostly main, reports contentiously on issues that support our removal. Yes, they HAD to report the surge is "working", for a day or two, but when I listen carefully IN THE MAIN, I don't hear the support of "go, go, let's role, get them, we are good for doing this".
Sorry, but I don't.
I know FOR A FACT in 1967-68 the body counts of the VC in 'Nam meant nothing. We'd count the same body several times and walk over uncounted others, so don't tell me about the accuracy of that. So, let our friendly Iraqis tally theirs.
As for "harm" to soldiers: war IS harm. Do you want little Johnny to go and kill folks, see misery, be at cause for devastation AND NOT SUPPORTED at home, and then come back all "sweetness and light" just like before? What the hell is wrong with you? In WWII, a war that was SUPPORTED, fellows came back torn up, and never cried out loud in public, told their families or talked about it AND lead normal lives afterwards. Since then it has become The Motherization of America, so now, all is "therapeutic" and tell all of us everything and enough love and hugs will make "it" go away, or at least "cope". It doesn't work like that, man. Really.
Granted, we never should have invaded, IMO. But we did, we're there. Now what?
But the direct quote I really like, "But just because something is propaganda doesn't mean it's false; only that it is being put to a political use." Gadz, tons o' books can be written, and have been, on that! Oh, and BTW, it IS a political term, first used by the church for The Children's Crusade, and brought to maturity by Adolph and Uncle Joe, both communists. And you are right, it has since been perfected by US. Of course we all should now that Pacific Radio is a great source of propaganda, no?
Yes, they do report another side, but there is another agenda for such. Please agree or communication becomes difficult if not impossible. Though I listen to a lot more KPFK than Rush, they are as deep into theirs as he is into his, no? But you already knew that by your last sentence.

Huh? All you hear from the mainstream media is how great "the surge" is working. You never hear about how many Iraqi casualties there are. You have to read foreign journalists or listen to Pacifica radio if you want to find out anything meaningful about the harm we're doing in Iraq whether it's harm to Iraq or harm to our own soldiers. Yes, our "resolve" should be discouraged. It's a sickness. It's time to leave. It's always been time to leave. We never should have invaded. (That's my "spin.")
OK. I always wonder when people use the term "propaganda" as though it were a communist plot. The Soviet Union certainly produced their share of it and much of it was questionable at best. But just because something is propaganda doesn't mean it's false; only that it is being put to a political use. All of the presidential campaign ads are propaganda. That doesn't mean they aren't true (OK, bad example).
When one hears or reads propaganda, the reasonable approach is to read the propaganda of other and opposing sources. Assume "spin." Read other sources. Give thanks for the Web.-Jeff

[Lenny]

Sorry. Poor choice of terms on my part. It (that news) was widely PROMULGATED. Better than disseminated.
Murder does deserve removal from society, but I don't understand the "slap in the hand" remark.
The question I have is how come it is accepted that "The Fog of War" was well received when a traitor like Robert McNamara gets up and explains for an hour and a half how difficult decisions in war are, and yet when in the field, where war REALLY IS ALSO HELL, you find this relatively terrible? RELATIVELY speaking. Seems to be a contradiction in the term "war". There has to be propaganda for war, about war, and in war. Young men think they wish to do dehumanizing things. Look around us, as I see it perfectly in beautiful Sebastopol. After the right of passage of war, they no longer want to. As men they wish to live and encourage others to go after that good life. However you define it. Trust that!

Disseminated???? NO, they were shot point blank and burned.
Lenny, I am not sure where you are going with this, but the soldiers have been convicted. You are right, even though they got off with a slap on their hand for murder, it was a good thing that they were convicted.
Every time people use the word propaganda, I have to laugh. Propaganda in Spanish means advertising.
WE ARE SURROUNDED BY PROPAGANDA ABOUT HOW GREAT THE US IS!!!!! Slogans like; You deserve it. The good things in life. The best you can be. This one is for you. are designed to make you believe that happiness is just around the corner, all you have to do is BUY something.

[thewholetruth]

Not necessarily, but it could be. Most of the time, that which supports our POV is merely evidence, oftentimes inconclusive, and just as often twisted in order to leap to conclusions which support that which we already believe, none of which having anything to do with "the truth" at all.

Don

Could "the truth" be that which supports our POV?

[MsTerry]

Lenny,
These kids didn't do it in the heat of the moment of a war.
They raped and murdered on their day off!!!!!
Only one of them got a short prison term if I recall it correctly.
had they done the same thing over here in Sebastopol, they all been locked up for a long time. All four of them

Sorry. Poor choice of terms on my part. It (that news) was widely PROMULGATED. Better than disseminated.
Murder does deserve removal from society, but I don't understand the "slap in the hand" remark.
The question I have is how come it is accepted that "The Fog of War" was well received when a traitor like Robert McNamara gets up and explains for an hour and a half how difficult decisions in war are, and yet when in the field, where war REALLY IS ALSO HELL, you find this relatively terrible? RELATIVELY speaking. Seems to be a contradiction in the term "war". There has to be propaganda for war, about war, and in war. Young men think they wish to do dehumanizing things. Look around us, as I see it perfectly in beautiful Sebastopol. After the right of passage of war, they no longer want to. As men they wish to live and encourage others to go after that good life. However you define it. Trust that!

[Lenny]

Lenny,
These kids didn't do it in the heat of the moment of a war.
They raped and murdered on their day off!!!!!
Only one of them got a short prison term if I recall it correctly.
had they done the same thing over here in Sebastopol, they all been locked up for a long time. All four of them

You are probably right, again, Ms. Terry.
But a day off, while in hell, is still, in hell. It's NOT like a day at the beach and you can "get away from it all".
I know it may sound like I was making excuses. I am sorry for that. There is none, in truth. But, if you'll excuse my language, Goddamn war. I truly mean it. And what hurts more, war sometimes "necessary" and/or "justified". There are some great writings on "the good war", but......well, if we never see war again, then it will be a time well spent. But I live in dread.