Punks in Novato

[Reportanddeport]

With my work as a security officer and assignment to a post from Hell, there is now a local issue I need to bring to your attention.

”The Square” is a shopping center in Novato, Marin County, California, which has a parking lot occupied and run by apparent drug dealers, habitual loiterers, punks and reckless drivers. Every day while I’m on duty, I’m verbally assaulted with yells of, “fuck you, security faggot”, “suck my dick”, and other filthy remarks and threats from people I don’t know and never did anything to.

In the three weeks that I have been there, I have called the police about ten times, resulting in zero arrests and only one removal from private property (when a glue stick was thrown at me) that is clearly posted with, “no loitering” and, “two-hour parking”, signs.

On every shift that I’m on duty, habitual loiterers come and go up to six times, frequently jumping into cars with groups of 14-year olds, only to come back fifteen minutes later. Other times, the habitual loiterers will open their trunks or hoods, transfer small items, allow other people to search an engine compartment or allow people to walk up, reach in and take tiny things out of a passenger compartment which are quickly placed in a pocket.

I have had young men getting in my face, threatening to kick my ass, vehicles charging me quickly while I’m on foot like they’re going to run me over, and I’ve been yelled at to not take pictures nor record license plates. I had one young man quietly sneaking up behind me and another spitting at my feet.

I Repeatedly, I have told the police that there are loiterers there and apparent drug deals going on, threats and assaults, and the police have repeatedly told me, “you don’t have enough signs”, “they’re not breaking any laws”, “this is NOT private property”, “they can stay here as long as they want to”, “they probably are selling drugs, but there’s nothing we can do about it” and “we’ll come when you call us, even if it takes two hours”.

Due to the danger of foot patrols and getting attacked or run over, I recently changed tactics and started spending time in the security office window, using binoculars and taking careful notes. But on Friday, March 21, 2008, at 1955 hours, a man of about 18 years of age came up to my window and started yelling at me, calling me a, “stalker” and a “pervert”, and saying, “this time you went too far”, in using the binoculars. He yelled through the window that he was going to kick my ass, while his 16-year old friend made punching motions at me through the window. He told me to, “come outside and we’ll talk about it”.

I locked up the office and two minutes later I walked out to the older punk in the parking lot, and told him, “if you think I’m afraid of you, you’re dead wrong”. He immediately ran up to me , got in my face, an inch away, and started re-iterating the accusations that I’m a “stalker”, a “pervert”, and adding, “you probably get off watching us through the binoculars” and “I’m gonna kick your ass”. Meanwhile his friends yelled at me that I am a, “child molester” and, “you’re going to get fired for that”. The punk yelled in my face for about thirty seconds, then backed off and came at me again twice more, with his nose almost touching mine while he yelled at the top of his lungs. While this was going on, his friends yelled at me too, with even the teenage girls in the group of about eight loiterers looking at me with hate and disrespect. I don’t know any of these people and I never did anything to them.

After the punk withdrew for the third time, I pulled out my cellphone and while trying to find the number to the police, the punks still taunted me, one yelling, “what’s the matter, did you forget the number?”.

As I finally began talking to the police dispatcher, all the loiterers got in their cars and drive off. When the police arrived, I gave the officer an account of what had just happened and a description of the suspect. Of course nothing came of it and I’m sure nothing ever will.

The punks run the parking lot at the Square, and the police and the city of Novato are fine with that, so you should just STAY AWAY.

I have been told by one of the managers at the Square that a lawyer has drawn up a petition to be presented to and signed by the shop owners requesting that the police remove the loiterers, but that the petition will not be made available until the lawyer has returned from vacation….in one month.

Detailed info at https://home.pon.net/jeffandmaria/novato

[mcwaccobb]

I've lived in that area for over 20 years and I can tell you this has been going on for a long time, which means Novato PD doesn't really care about it. Frankly there are other things which lead me to believe that Novato Police provide little more than a false sense of security, for example the recent incident where they surrounded an empty motel room at the Travelodge, only to find out they left hours ago when another guest came back and told them. It's really sad, and frankly most people probably has a mindset that's too self involved to do anything as a community.

[mcwyked]

Good work and good information, thank you.

Had there been no replies to this, I would have been content. You spent the time and energy to chronicle a blight in Novato.

"Frankly there are other things which lead me to believe that Novato Police provide little more than a false sense of security, for example the recent incident where they surrounded an empty motel room at the Travelodge, only to find out they left hours ago when another guest came back and told them." = How ignorant and misinformed. Read the paper, its not perfect but it gives better information than rumor supplied in a forum. The Travelodge issue involved the Marin County Sheriff's Department.

Ignorance breeds ignorance. This is a plea to the poster who replied to this excellent and informative topic to edit your reply to reflect your "opinion" and not information you know nothing about.

[mcwaccobb]

Okay - how about a direct quote from the Novato Advance:

"Marin sheriff’s deputies and Novato police spent more than two tense hours Tuesday morning staking out a Novato motel room — only to find it was unoccupied because the suspects had apparently run away."

https://www.novatoadvance.com/articl...7677091353.txt

Where do you suppose I heard about it in the first place? I was the one posting it in a forum, I didn't read it in a forum. I suppose the Novato police may have been supporting the sheriff's department, perhaps they are not playing the key role here in this case. It's obvious my post reflected both my opinion as we as a reference to something that actually happend, should everyone abstain from doing so just because they have an opinion..? Do you think I should have included the fact that the Sheriff's Department were involved as well as the Novato PD, or were you not aware that Novato PD was also involved?

If you know better, why didn't you just offer the information? It didn't take long to google it online. Or do you just like to call people ignorant and not take any part in informing others?

Good work and good information, thank you.

Had there been no replies to this, I would have been content. You spent the time and energy to chronicle a blight in Novato.

"Frankly there are other things which lead me to believe that Novato Police provide little more than a false sense of security, for example the recent incident where they surrounded an empty motel room at the Travelodge, only to find out they left hours ago when another guest came back and told them." = How ignorant and misinformed. Read the paper, its not perfect but it gives better information than rumor supplied in a forum. The Travelodge issue involved the Marin County Sheriff's Department.

Ignorance breeds ignorance. This is a plea to the poster who replied to this excellent and informative topic to edit your reply to reflect your "opinion" and not information you know nothing about.

[Braggi]

...

The punks run the parking lot at the Square, and the police and the city of Novato are fine with that, so you should just STAY AWAY.
...

Well, your occupation gives a little explanation to your vehemence around the illegal immigration issue. It's good to have a better understanding of that.

It's a curious coincidence that I recently finished up a job in that very shopping center. Go into the coin laundry and you'll see my work. I did the paint and siding. Note the nice graffiti resistant FRP siding. That's good stuff. I'm the local expert on installing it.

So I spent about four days a week over a six week period working at The Square. What I noticed is people coming and going, doing their business, a lot of smiles, a lot of courtesy, and nobody hassling anybody. I never noticed anyone loitering in the parking lot, but then, I wasn't looking for that. I was pretty much keeping my nose to the grindstone.

In any case, nobody seemed intimidated, nobody complained to me (well, not about loitering teens - a lot about the washing machines :-), everyone was happy. It's interesting to me that your experience is so different.

By the way, I'm the kind of guy that invites conversation with a lot of different people. I did business with the donut place (the best danish I think I ever had), the pizza place (pretty good pizza - nice folks), the drug store, the grocery store. I watched lots and lots of people coming and going from the tanning salon (well worth watching) and the gym (less worth watching although that makes no sense).

I never had a difficult interaction with anyone. I never saw anyone else having a difficult interaction with anyone.

So although I don't dispute your observations, I don't think the punks in the parking lot are bothering folks. If they are, I saw no evidence of it.

If only street drugs were legalized, it wouldn't be an issue. They'd be doing their business at home. I'm sorry you are yet another victim of the Failed War on Some Drugs.

-Jeff

PS. I'd really like to see plants legalized. Cocaine and meth could easily stay illegal and it wouldn't bother me.

PPS. I'm sure most of the people I met in the laundry were illegal immigrants from various countries, mostly Mexico. All were courteous to me and behaved well in the laundry, even if they had issues that needed to be addressed.

[Reportanddeport]

Your posts are typically Leftist: That is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, attacking for the sake of attacking and convincing yourself that you're relevant because you make problems for others.
Your opinions of me and my experiences and my job mean nothing to me, just like YOU mean nothing to me.
Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

Well, your occupation gives a little explanation to your vehemence around the illegal immigration issue. It's good to have a better understanding of that.

It's a curious coincidence that I recently finished up a job in that very shopping center. Go into the coin laundry and you'll see my work. I did the paint and siding. Note the nice graffiti resistant FRP siding. That's good stuff. I'm the local expert on installing it.

So I spent about four days a week over a six week period working at The Square. What I noticed is people coming and going, doing their business, a lot of smiles, a lot of courtesy, and nobody hassling anybody. I never noticed anyone loitering in the parking lot, but then, I wasn't looking for that. I was pretty much keeping my nose to the grindstone.

In any case, nobody seemed intimidated, nobody complained to me (well, not about loitering teens - a lot about the washing machines :-), everyone was happy. It's interesting to me that your experience is so different.

By the way, I'm the kind of guy that invites conversation with a lot of different people. I did business with the donut place (the best danish I think I ever had), the pizza place (pretty good pizza - nice folks), the drug store, the grocery store. I watched lots and lots of people coming and going from the tanning salon (well worth watching) and the gym (less worth watching although that makes no sense).

I never had a difficult interaction with anyone. I never saw anyone else having a difficult interaction with anyone.

So although I don't dispute your observations, I don't think the punks in the parking lot are bothering folks. If they are, I saw no evidence of it.

If only street drugs were legalized, it wouldn't be an issue. They'd be doing their business at home. I'm sorry you are yet another victim of the Failed War on Some Drugs.

-Jeff

PS. I'd really like to see plants legalized. Cocaine and meth could easily stay illegal and it wouldn't bother me.

PPS. I'm sure most of the people I met in the laundry were illegal immigrants from various countries, mostly Mexico. All were courteous to me and behaved well in the laundry, even if they had issues that needed to be addressed.

[Braggi]

Not sure what I said to deserve all that, but I'm not hurt by it, although I am saddened. I was just appreciating learning another facet of your life and seeing a little more of your humanity and now this. It's sad.

Your posts are typically Leftist: That is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, attacking for the sake of attacking and convincing yourself that you're relevant because you make problems for others. ...

I actually think I'm more libertarian than leftist, but your definition of "Leftist" is unique, I think. I certainly don't relate to that and i doubt you'd find many on this board that even think I'm into disagreeing. Actually, I much prefer to agree. That said, I didn't disagree with you and your post. I didn't attack and I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. I'm just having an experience and trying to learn. Here I learn about all kinds of things but mostly I learn about people. Oh, I don't think I did anything to cause a problem for you either. If you have a new problem look elsewhere for the cause. Perhaps into a mirror.

I'll write more tomorrow.

I hope you sleep well.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Continued ...

...
Your opinions of me and my experiences and my job mean nothing to me, just like YOU mean nothing to me.
Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

You know Reportanddeport, I don't think I posted any opinions of you. Interesting that you somehow read that into my writing. My comment about your job just referred to the fact that I now know in your work you probably end up face to face with some of the most difficult illegal aliens we have in this country. Please note that I don't use the term "undocumented workers." I know not all the undocumented are workers. Some are thieves, scoundrels, scofflaws and murderers. My wife also sees some of the worst of that group in her work. We discuss it daily. So I ask that you try to understand where I'm coming from and cease the projections and insults. I've been put in my place plenty.

The main reason my experience in Novato Square was different from yours is that you are being paid to watch for what you reported. If anything, I was being paid not to pay attention to that kind of thing. I was doing construction and remodeling. I don't deny your experiences. Those are yours. Mine were different. That's all.

The only thing I disagree with is your bottom line. As an employee of Novato Square, your call for people to avoid the place seems pretty self defeating. If people heeded your call you would be out of a job. My experience of the place is that it's a great place to do business. I was never interfered with nor did I see anyone else upset or disturbed by loitering or illegal activity.

I understand your desire to stop the loitering. If I was trying to do your job, I would want that too. I would also be frustrated by the inaction of the police. So you see, I understand where you're coming from. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not angry with you. I see your point.

My experience was different. My recommendation to the public is different.

-Jeff

[Nestor]

I have been told by one of the managers at the Square that a lawyer has drawn up a petition to be presented to and signed by the shop owners requesting that the police remove the loiterers, but that the petition will not be made available until the lawyer has returned from vacation

Good luck with that, see (Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41 (1999)) It basically set the rules for municipal loitering sections and a 'petition' by business owners isn't on the list of reasons. If you think that a broke municipality is going to take on a first amendment issue just because of a bunch of kids are hanging out, like they have for decades, in lots all over America, then please continue being part of the problem and let others find a reasonable solution for you.

-Nman

[Barry]

...
Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

[Melodymama]

Reportanddeport wrote:
...

Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

R&D, I like this. Maybe Jeff (Braggi) is a worm in the highest sense of the word. I am a worm rancher myself and have become convinced that worms are the perfect creature. They annoy no one, they aerate our earth, they make no noise, only one is needed to procreate (they are bi/bi, so to speak), and they make wonderful fertilizer for our plants that does not stink. Yep, their poop does not stink. In other words, they are always making the world a better place.


I know you meant that to be demeaning. Is it possible for you to continue this discussion without seeing all of us as attacking you? Can you respond in a more intelligent and thoughtful manner? I am impressed by your passion and only wish you could find a more constructive way to channel it.

In reference to the earlier post saying we all should stand, I agree. Then we can hold hands and sing a song we all know. We can put our right foot in, then out, then in…Shake it all about


What if the Hokey Pokey is what it’s all about?

Especially with all the tragedy in the world now, a serious discussion impacting lives and livelihood can be held along with a sense of communal humor and capacity to rise above the fray to see the larger picture and the commonality. We are creating the future. Whatever we focus on is creating that future for ourselves. Namaste :threesome:
https://www.campwinnarainbow.org/adults/adults.html

[Reportanddeport]

No help, no understanding, no compassion, no concern, no suggestions, just hatred and condescension. TYPICAL leftist scum. But at least you didn't say "I love you" at the end, and I thank you for that. Good , honest hatred. How very refreshing.

Good luck with that, see (Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41 (1999)) It basically set the rules for municipal loitering sections and a 'petition' by business owners isn't on the list of reasons. If you think that a broke municipality is going to take on a first amendment issue just because of a bunch of kids are hanging out, like they have for decades, in lots all over America, then please continue being part of the problem and let others find a reasonable solution for you.

-Nman

[Reportanddeport]

No, I'll say what I feel until I'm kicked out. Liberalism is not about setting a standard and then holding everyone accountable to that same standard, it is about the political body or great leader raising or lowering the bar as they see fit, to get the desired results.

But I don't play that. It's much better for me to call it as I see it, then face the consequences.

Reportanddeport wrote:
...Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

R&D, I like this. Maybe Jeff (Braggi) is a worm in the highest sense of the word. I am a worm rancher myself and ...

[Nestor]

No help, no understanding, no compassion, no concern, no suggestions, just hatred and condescension. TYPICAL leftist scum. But at least you didn't say "I love you" at the end, and I thank you for that. Good , honest hatred. How very refreshing.

I do understand your problem, I am just pointing out that the Constitution of the United States is an incredible document that we are defending daily on foreign and domestic soil. So the fact that you feel the First Ammendment should be lifted in this small parking lot, in your corner of your world, does make me a little concerned.

I by no means support all of the court interpretations of this hallowed document, but I do feel it is appropriate to point out that the freedom of assembly is pretty American and should be allowed at all costs.

I suggest you read some Mark Steyn and then reconsider your views on freedom. I would say you are the leftist in this debate.

-N

[Reportanddeport]

Freedom of assembly should not mean that you are free to assemble on private property against the wishes of the owner or the owner's designated agent. If THAT were true, then I could hang out in your yard any time I wanted to, and every time you came out I could scream, "fuck you faggot" and "I'm gonna kick your ass" while I get in your face. Your "concern" merely displays your ignorance of what I have clearly written.

I do understand your problem, I am just pointing out that the Constitution of the United States is an incredible document that we are defending daily on foreign and domestic soil. So the fact that you feel the First Ammendment should be lifted in this small parking lot, in your corner of your world, does make me a little concerned.

I by no means support all of the court interpretations of this hallowed document, but I do feel it is appropriate to point out that the freedom of assembly is pretty American and should be allowed at all costs.

I suggest you read some Mark Steyn and then reconsider your views on freedom. I would say you are the leftist in this debate.

-N

[Nestor]

Your "concern" merely displays your ignorance of what I have clearly written.

I totally understand, what you seem to be ignorant of is the fact that when a merchant opens a business in a commercial zone they must provide public parking, the key word here is PUBLIC, if they want a private lot then they need to move to an industrial zone and build a fence.

-N

[Braggi]

No, I'll say what I feel until I'm kicked out. Liberalism is not about setting a standard and then holding everyone accountable to that same standard, it is about the political body or great leader raising or lowering the bar as they see fit, to get the desired results.
...

You certainly have unique definitions of words.

Perhaps you could give us your full definition of "Liberalism" so that we understand.

Do you know what the root word of liberalism is? Few ever think about it.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Reportanddeport wrote:
...

Worms like you continue as you are because you have not yet been put in your place enough times.

R&D, I like this. Maybe Jeff (Braggi) is a worm in the highest sense of the word. I am a worm rancher myself and have become convinced that worms are the perfect creature. They annoy no one, they aerate our earth, they make no noise, only one is needed to procreate (they are bi/bi, so to speak), and they make wonderful fertilizer for our plants that does not stink. Yep, their poop does not stink. In other words, they are always making the world a better place. ...

Well, I have a large compost production system here, so I relate to the worms in that I'm also a topsoil builder. I make no claims as to the fragrance or lack thereof of my poop.

-Jeff

[Reportanddeport]

Liberalism: A mental disorder characterized by an individual's unwillingness to recognize and accept reality and by valuing one's own personal feelings more than any facts or evidence that might tend to change those feelings.

You certainly have unique definitions of words.

Perhaps you could give us your full definition of "Liberalism" so that we understand.

Do you know what the root word of liberalism is? Few ever think about it.

-Jeff

[Reportanddeport]

This very sick and punky kid who does not seem to have any parents likes to be as much of an ass as possible. On March 29, 2008, he was loitering in back of “The Square”, the shopping center here in Novato, CA, and refused to leave when asked. Today, Aprill 11, he stuck his face in the security office window, staring deep inside while he panted and fogged up the window. I told him to go away, and he ignored me, of course. So I took his picture, and he covered up his face. When he still wouldn’t leave, I pulled out my phone and started calling the police. He took this time to pull up his shirt and expose his chest to me while covering his nipples with his hands. One of his friends pounded on the security office window. Then they disappeared, but one came running by quickly with his middle finger in the air. Then another one came back a few minutes later and said he wanted to talk to me. I yelled through the window, “what do you want?”. He then said, “I’m going to call the police”, then they all walked away. These are just sick, strange, empty little losers, with no decent parents and nothing to do. Just another day here in beautiful Novato, California.

[Braggi]

This very sick and punky kid who does not seem to have any parents likes to be as much of an ass as possible. ...

Hey, R & D, here's a possible solution to your loitering crowd (assuming at least most of them are under 25 and haven't destroyed their hearing with MP3 players).

https://www.noloitering.ca/contact.php

For those worried about polluting the atmosphere with yet another sound, the device only runs for 20 minutes after activation and then shuts off. Also, the sound pressure level is very far below the level that would cause hearing damage and will only exist within a short distance from the speaker/emitter.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Hey, R & D, here's a possible solution to your loitering crowd (assuming at least most of them are under 25 and haven't destroyed their hearing with MP3 players).
...

Oops! Put the wrong link in there. Try this one:
https://www.noloitering.ca/contact.php

I'll edit the other post too.

-Jeff