Im scared to post on wacco

[someguy]

I was going to post a response to the question regarding what men are looking for, but I can never seem to gather enough gonads to post my opinion. Im scared that anytime I post anything Ill be forced into playing defense against someone who is reacting to my post simply to create conflict. Often I read whats going on here and get sick of all the confusion, chaos, arguments, and disrespect. I know other people feel the same way. So why is this? Why cant we all be civilized and not jump down each others throats all the time? I think sometimes wacco is a great resource for our community, and it has been a good tool for me, But sometimes I get a headache just reading some of the posts on here. Im wondering how we can get together and make this place a little more positive than it already is? Dont be to harsh on me now.
-Peace.

[AnnaLisaW]

Dear "someguy,"
I am glad to see that you found a chunk of courage to speak your mind like that. I have a few people on my "ignore" list for just that reason. If someone cannot state his/her opinions without disrespecting their audience or attacking another post, I am not interested in hearing from them at all.
There are several people who have written posts that totally disagree with me without being mean or disrespectful. I like that. We can learn more from our critics than our supporters.
-ALW

[Tars]

I read whats going on here and get sick of all the confusion, chaos, arguments, and disrespect. I know other people feel the same way. So why is this? Why cant we all be civilized and not jump down each others throats all the time?

It takes emotional discipline to avoid being hurt by negativity spew and use of insults. Discipline comes with practice, so I encourage you to participate whenever/wherever you can, even though it's sometimes uncomfortable.

I've been and am participating in forums all over the web, and used to do old-time dial-up BBS' before that. Long ago I felt the same angst that you do. But apparently I've grown a psychic callous that allows me to avoid feeling hurt by personal attacks. The callous hasn't hardened my communications style, or hopefully my human sensitivity, it's just formed a protective layer.

You can get a good idea of a poster's mental abilities by their use of insult and name calling. I think it's an inverse relationship. The more someone uses insult, the less capable they are of honest communication. It's their problem, not yours. When they start insulting you, it's because they've run out of anything meaningful to say.

I hope you'll overcome your sensitivity and continue to post, someguy.

Good luck!

Tars

[Barry]

...I'm wondering how we can get together and make this place a little more positive than it already is? ...

Thanks for bringing this up, Someguy! I applaud your courage in sharing your feelings!

Yes, sometimes the discussions/debates here can seem rather harsh. Many of them are between active members (that have tangled with each other before) that have long standing and strongly held different points of view. Their posts are often very thoughtful, well written and while they "attack" their "opponent's" arguments, then don't actually attack their opponent, but rather treat them with respect. I find many of these threads quite interesting, but I don't often feel called to join the fray.

However there are other times when a reply can seem to be mean-spirited, seemingly trying to put the poster "down" or "make them wrong" or make them defend themselves personally. These posts have no place on WaccoBB.net, where I strongly encourage everybody to treat each other with respect.

It's a challenge for me as the moderator to handle these instances. It's a very messy business with few clear lines. I try to take into consideration who is writing to who, free speech rights and where the thread might lead. Like the grain of sand in the oyster, the little irritation can often lead to a beautiful healing, especially when held in the light of our Conscious Community with many wise and compassionate souls!

There are some members that are more prone to making these insensitive and hurtful posts. I often try to engage them, both publicly and privately to encourage them to be kinder and more sensitive. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

If you find a particular member's posts to be often offensive, you can tell the system to ignore their posts for you. Here's how.

I know you are not alone in your feelings, Someguy. I want everybody to feel safe in posting here. I see WaccoBB.net as a holding environment for our community. The more people feel safe posting their thoughts and feelings here, the richer we will all be and I think it will help us grow as a community.

I will step up my efforts to moderate the more aggressive members, either by using the bully pulpit, as I am doing here, or by moving their posts to our Censored and Uncensored category where at least you are forewarned that the posts you encounter there may be offensive (or chat that need not be shared with the community) for one reason or another. I also invite you to flag posts that you think should be moderated for one reason or another. Just click on the Report Post icon () on the blue header above each post on the website.

If you or anybody else out there are interested in posting, but are "scared" to, please summon the courage like Someguy and give it a try! You are welcome to include a note requesting that people be gentle in their replies. I will do my best to be sure that your request is honored. And know that there are many people out here that are glad that you posted!

The vast majority of our members are kind and are eager to lend support for whatever is needed. For instance there are Tars' and AnnaLisaW's helpful replies on this thread, as well as elsewhere on the board.

Now, Someguy, I hope you will share with us your thoughts about "what men are looking for"! I know that many women are looking for men who can be vulnerable and can authentically share there feelings as you have!

Barry

[karenclark]

Thanks Barry for your thoughtful response. And thanks to Someguy for saying out loud thoughts I'd had too. I've even gotten private-response flames in the past and altho I don't consider myself ultra sensitive, it just makes you think twice before posting. Who needs that kind of drama, you know? Life's too short.
Karen

[loveheals]

Thank you Someguy for your post. I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

[ThePhiant]

what is interesting about your post is that you say were "attacked".
this of course is your perception and your truth since i don't know which or what posts you are referring to.
it is a result of your sensitivity level, and the others.
maybe something you wrote felt like an attack to them
maybe they were trying to be funny
maybe this is their way of being direct and honest and truthful
or maybe you are too sensitive
when communicating via emails, things become more impersonal and seem more intense than when the same things were said in person.

so Barry, maybe it is time to open up a new category and I'' call it the lovey-dovey puppy pen.
just as you created a site for the more raucous ones, we need a place for the shy and easily intimidated ones, where we maybe can create a new form of communicating via emails
only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff
where no one is called a name
love and peace

LuLu

Thank you Someguy for your post. I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

[mykil]

ROTFLMFAO LULU I am going to hold my tounge today! Peace!

what is interesting about your post is that you say were "attacked"...

[Kunnskaping]

. . . maybe something you wrote felt like an attack to them
maybe they were trying to be funny
maybe this is their way of being direct and honest and truthful
or maybe you are too sensitive
when communicating via emails, things become more impersonal and seem more intense than when the same things were said in person.

. . .

. . .


When you're nearly hit by a yuppie little twit
With 'is godforsaken noggin on the phone
Swervin' in your lane goin' ninety in the rain
In a cloud of Amaretto and cologne
You feel the anger in you go to work
Maybe now's the time to go berserk
Before you pop a vessel let the speculator wrestle
With another way of lookin' at the jerk
Maybe he's a shrink with a patient on the brink
And he's rushing there while tryin' to talk him down
Maybe he's aware there's a toxin in the air
And he's off to warn the people of the town
Someone in the family could be sick
His daughter hit his mother with a brick
His dog has got the rabies or his wife is having babies
Though the odds are in your favor he's a prick

-- From Lou and Peter Barryman's "The Speculator"

[Barry]

Thanks Barry for your thoughtful response. And thanks to Someguy for saying out loud thoughts I'd had too. I've even gotten private-response flames in the past and altho I don't consider myself ultra sensitive, it just makes you think twice before posting. Who needs that kind of drama, you know? Life's too short.
Karen

I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

Thanks for speaking up Karen and Sparkie. Everybody, please contact me if you fell you have received a rude or otherwise inappropriate private reply from your public posting. I will be intercede as needed to ensure all replies are respectful.

And while this thread is focusing on the problematic replies, please keep in mind that the vast majority of replies are kind and helpful!

...
so Barry, maybe it is time to open up a new category and I'' call it the lovey-dovey puppy pen.
just as you created a site for the more raucous ones, we need a place for the shy and easily intimidated ones, where we maybe can create a new form of communicating via emails
only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff
where no one is called a name
love and peace

LuLu

It just so happens I've been thinking of creating a category call "Gratitude and Inspiration" which would welcome "only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff". I know many of you make gratitude a daily practice, whether it's to help heal a from a depression or other life challenge, or as continual honoring and celebration of the mystery that is all that is. So this would be a place where we can share that with each other along with other inspiring writings. Requests for emotional support and/or guidance would also be welcome (such as the recent " alternatives to mental health counselling" thread) , along with kind and supportive replies. Perhaps the title should be "Support, Gratitude and Inspiration". While the emphasis would be on original postings, short (like 20 lines) forwarded/quoted pieces be accepted. links could be used for longer pieces.

This would also go hand in hand with another feature I am working on that would allow members to express their gratitude for a post with a single click. The idea being that if community has a easy way to express gratitude for a given post it would create a nice positive feedback loop that would help inspire more helpful and kind posts and it would enhance the sense of community that WaccoBB.net strives to nurture. I hope to have this ready within the next week or two.

Whaddya think? Would you read it? Would you post to it? Other ideas are most welcome!

[AnnaLisaW]

The idea of a "Gratitude and Inspiration" section might be a nice idea. However, Barry, I would not want to host an area like that! It would be like living with 5 teenage girls. It could be pure delight one day and hair pulling frustration the next. Emotions are a tricky subject and those who cannot handle the rudeness of a few trolls might unexpectedly find themselves feeling violated where they though they were safe.
Perhaps if more of us, like someguy, have the courage to speak up to those who are hurtful, and use the "ignore option" when needed, we can truly form a strong, loving community, a cyber-village.
In my younger years, (before the internet) I was my family's troll and I often said and did hurtful things. Over the years, my few friends and family have helped me soften my edges. Instead of being told regularly how badly I hurt someone's feelings, I am often told that people really like me and I have a lot more friends. The proverb "It takes a village to raise a child," also pertains to adults who still need to grow up.
At 55, I'm still growing up, too.
Love to all, AnnaLisa

[ThePhiant]

AnnaLisa,

I think Barry believes in creating a community that is inclusive rather than exclusive.
it takes all kinds of people to make a village.
"someguy" is not standing up against those who are hurtful, but is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place.
I see nothing wrong with that
apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back.
do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?

The idea of a "Gratitude and Inspiration" section might be a nice idea. However, Barry, I would not want to host an area like that! It would be like living with 5 teenage girls. It could be pure delight one day and hair pulling frustration the next. Emotions are a tricky subject and those who cannot handle the rudeness of a few trolls might unexpectedly find themselves feeling violated where they though they were safe.
Perhaps if more of us, like someguy, have the courage to speak up to those who are hurtful, and use the "ignore option" when needed, we can truly form a strong, loving community, a cyber-village.
In my younger years, (before the internet) I was my family's troll and I often said and did hurtful things. Over the years, my few friends and family have helped me soften my edges. Instead of being told regularly how badly I hurt someone's feelings, I am often told that people really like me and I have a lot more friends. The proverb "It takes a village to raise a child," also pertains to adults who still need to grow up.
At 55, I'm still growing up, too.
Love to all, AnnaLisa

[AnnaLisaW]

Dear Phiant,
I just took you off my ignore list about an hour ago. I had placed you there because I found many of your posts difficult to understand and I didn't like the harshness you sometimes displayed in response to other people's posts. After my statements about villages, I decided it was time to try to understand you again however the last one of your posts that I read confounds me. The post seems to agree with me in substance and yet the tone is confrontational.
The statement "'someguy' is not standing up against those who are hurtful," tries to negate my statement that someguy had "the courage to speak up." All you needed to say was someguy "is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place." Your statement is valid; there was no need to negate mine.
The statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding. People who do not care about the feelings of other people are rare. Those who ignorantly hurt others are common.
Finally, the last question, "do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?" implies that I am unwilling to let others change. This could not be farther from the truth and I find it difficult to understand how someone could have inferred that from what I wrote.
It is possible to state a divergent opinion without saying that someone else is wrong just as there are many different roads from the city to the ocean. One person may feel that the best road is smooth and straight, another may prefer the winding, bumby road with the great view. Both may enjoy the beach at sunset but neither should tell the other she is wrong about how she travels.
May each of us learn from one another.
-AnnaLisa

[theindependenteye]

Friends—

Just a couple of brief thoughts on this thread.

I've been on maybe half a dozen e-lists where the issue of "safe space" came up regularly. Frankly, I don't think there is such a thing. This is a *public* space, like the street, not like a private home with friends invited. Unlike the street, of course, it invites sometimes intense discussion with total strangers, and solely through words, no visual cues, and without the benefit of a copy editor or a lot of mulling-over. That's an entirely novel situation in human evolution. So if you're looking for psychological security, this probably isn't the place to find it.

On the other hand, in a sense it's totally safe. No one is going to shoot you in the side of the head, as they might on the freeway. Yes, I know that while my mom constantly quoted, "words will never hurt you," words *do* hurt. But it's entirely up to you how you take them, and as someone suggested, maybe this is a good place to get practice in the water-off-the-duck's-back strategy.

That's not at all to say that sarcasm & abruptness & personal attacks are to be condoned, or that tact & common courtesy disparaged. Rude bullies generally make a brief big stink on a list like this, then hunker off into the distance pretty fast, so they're not the biggest problem. Worse, to my mind, are the fairly nice, fairly reasonable people, who just can't quite resist just that one squirt of sarcasm they feel gives their post that extra zing. It's like the little kid in the back seat of the car who keeps punching his little sister and then says, "My elbow slipped." I've done that kind of thing, and to my mind it's childish and self-indulgent.

[theindependenteye]

Following up—

Sorry I didn't sign my last post. Hit the wrong key and it sent itself before I was finished. Which probably indicates that I've said enough on the subject.

Cheers—
Conrad

[Tars]

This is a *public* space, like the street, not like a private home with friends invited.

Hmm...I see it about 160° different - not quite exactly opposite. This is a public place only in the sense that there are are a large variety of entities here. But it's more like a large invitation-only private gathering, where the host will eject any guest unable to act in a civil manner. The "public place" analogy would fit usenet newsgroups, or craigslist forums. Anything goes on those, which may be why usenet has faded, and craigslist is populated by....well, check for yourself.

I don't waste my time on those "forums" anymore. I love to read the range of opinion on any subject. But if there are those who can't express themselves beyond a 7th-grade emotional level, they really aren't contributing anything positive, are they? I warmly appreciate light moderation, and loose but definite group expectations about civilized behavior.

[ThePhiant]

AnnaLisa,

your response to my post, I think, is exactly what "someguy" is referring to,
you take my writing apart, tell me what I should have said, mix in some of your assumptions of what I did say and then tell me I shouldn't do that to you!! LOL
When I read your previous post, I found it not clear of your position, so I threw out some questions for clarity.
that's all
IThe statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding.
but I would like you to show me how my words were an implication of "a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding."
that is quite a jump from what was written
and I think that is one of the reasons some people feel intimidated to post

LuLu

Dear Phiant,
I just took you off my ignore list about an hour ago. I had placed you there because I found many of your posts difficult to understand and I didn't like the harshness you sometimes displayed in response to other people's posts. After my statements about villages, I decided it was time to try to understand you again however the last one of your posts that I read confounds me. The post seems to agree with me in substance and yet the tone is confrontational.
The statement "'someguy' is not standing up against those who are hurtful," tries to negate my statement that someguy had "the courage to speak up." All you needed to say was someguy "is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place." Your statement is valid; there was no need to negate mine.
The statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding. People who do not care about the feelings of other people are rare. Those who ignorantly hurt others are common.
Finally, the last question, "do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?" implies that I am unwilling to let others change. This could not be farther from the truth and I find it difficult to understand how someone could have inferred that from what I wrote.
It is possible to state a divergent opinion without saying that someone else is wrong just as there are many different roads from the city to the ocean. One person may feel that the best road is smooth and straight, another may prefer the winding, bumby road with the great view. Both may enjoy the beach at sunset but neither should tell the other she is wrong about how she travels.
May each of us learn from one another.
-AnnaLisa

[AnnaLisaW]

"The Phiant" also sent me an even more detailed explaination of her opinions in a private email. It was very well stated and showed me how I misread her original post and did to her what I accused her of doing to others. I'm glad I stopped ignoring her and started to listen.
Thank-you, Lulu
-ALW

[AnnaLisaW]

I remember when I first started visiting chat rooms and bulletin boards. I got my feelings hurt, I was threatened and I even got bounced from one and didn't understand why. Communities like this really make us think about what we have to say and how we say it. What is often meant as a joke is taken seriously and sometimes we are laughed at when we open up our hearts. Other times, we try to be nice and wind up hurting someone.
It is sort of like learning to swim, you have to get your feet wet. If you don't want to get hurt, enter the water slowly and carefully instead of diving in head first.
Blessings, AnnaLisa
P.S. I tend to jump in with both feet. I've hit a lot of sharp rocks that way!

[someguy]

Im glad to hear that some of you agree with me on this. Its great to have meaningful discussions, and even criticism is great and can be constructive. Its sad though that sometimes, (even though we have the great right to "free speech") we dont feel we can speak our minds freely, and we can feel cornered or bullied into silence. Im sure there are other issues out there in this world that are analogical to this one. But I feel that if we (the people on Wacco) can be supportive, sympathetic, and positive towards one another, (while being true to ourselves) that all of our experiences here will be much more beneficial to our lives and our Waccoesk community. Thanks again everyone, I feel much more comfortable and confident now.
Peace.

[artwizard]

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.


Tony

[AnnaLisaW]

I am finding this to be a very intriguing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. ...

THANK-YOU
That really needed to be said. I try to write from the heart and too often hurt people when I do. Your post helps me to understand the value of using discretion to temper the painful truth into a lasting truth.
-AnnaLisa

[mykil]

I really have mixed emotions about this post. For one I am not at all sure that Someguy isn’t really as bad as all the rest of us, just making a post hoping to draw some attention. That would be a troll! YES? Not that there is anything wrong with it! But still I have my suspicions.

I looked on your profile and saw that you are 21 years old? This in itself shows proof in the pudding to say. IF that wasn’t your intention then this might just be a reality check for you. You need to grow up and jump in with both feet dude! Say what is on your mind; let us know what you think. Don’t just sit by the sidelines and keep it all bottled because you are afraid. This is what the government wants you to do, and I for one think you are better than this!!!!! Don’t be afraid to get you feet wet, if it’s your feelings you are afraid of getting hurt, don’t be, harden you heart and make the best of a good thing. You might need a little heartache to achieve your goals in life to begin with!!!! I think its really sweet that you are all lovely-dovey but the truth of the matter is this will get you nowhere and we the people of this really fucked up country need people to stand up and speak there minds. If you can’t talk here to people that care then what is this to say for the rest of the world? That really needs you to be able to speak your mind?

I don’t mean to be soooo harsh, but this really is the way I feel about your post, I do not mean to mock you in anyway, just a reality check on your part. Get in the fight to make a difference in our society!!!! You are probably a really nice SOMEGUY but the truth hurts sometimes and I for one would love to hear your opinions and everyone else’s opinions on all the subjects we talk about!!! What is the worst that may happen if you post? Do you think someone that doesn’t agree with you will hurt your feelings? Get over it and just say what is on your mind!!!!

[Looksgood]

This is, in my opinion, the best contribution I have yet seen on WACCO. It succinctly explains and clarifies the art of communication that builds, as opposed to communication that tears down and destroys, which is endemic to our culture. This post should be required reading for all who participate in these discussions, and placed permanently at the top of every forum, and used as a scale by which to measure contributions to the discussion.

Perhaps indeed (Barry?) it deserves a forum of its own; kind of a meta discussion; a discussion about discussion.

Patrick Brinton

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.


Tony

[jay]

Tony....

Beautifully expressed!

- jay

I am finding this to be a very intriguing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity. ...

[someguy]

Im glad to hear that some of you agree with me on this. Its great to have meaningful discussions, and even criticism is great and can be constructive. Its sad though that sometimes, (even though we have the great right to "free speech") we dont feel we can speak our minds freely, and we can feel cornered or bullied into silence. Im sure there are other issues out there in this world that are analogical to this one. But I feel that if we (the people on Wacco) can be supportive, sympathetic, and positive towards one another, (while being true to ourselves) that all of our experiences here will be much more beneficial to our lives and our Waccoesk community. Thanks again everyone, I feel much more comfortable and confident now.
Peace.

HAHA I was just re-reading this post of mine and realized I used the non-word "analogical" lmao. I don't know what the hizzle I was thinking but wow its refreshing to see my failed mental thesaurus published in a public forum.

[hales]

I don't mean to go all cosmic on you, Tony,
but I just had this conversation while talking to a friend on Sunday.. actually these ideas have been percolating on my "back burner", for a while now. I really appreciate your very clear expression of these ideas..

Scott.

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.


Tony

[Lisa W]

I must reply, if only to have this original posting viewed once again by us all. Thank you Tony for an eloquently spoken truth that spoke to my heart. This is an area I have been thinking over recently, to speak the truth and only the truth, so help me . . . . and strongly wishing others would do the same. We are many of us on a learning curve in so many areas of our lives, the greater culture, our relationships, our microcosms of reality and so we must also be patient with ourselves and each other and keep striving to be our best. Ultimately we are all human and have our foibles and differences which makes life much more fun and rich. I am sure enjoying it.

Bonne nuit ~

Lisa

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.


Tony

[babaruss]

It would really be just lovely if we all had the ability, and understanding Tony projects. The simple truth is that we all come to this forum just as we are...you guys do remember those 'come as you are' parties from eons ago don't you ?
I have no problem admitting my limitations, and move as best I am able to correct them (once I recognize what they are).
In lieu of those discoveries about my self, I have little, or no choice other than to continue being myself.
This wanting everyone on the same page, with the same understanding, is and the same attitude is not ever going to happen on a public forum.
What does happen (for the most part) is that a large portion of Wacco B.B. participants learn new ways to communicate, different ways to express feelings like anger, and frustration other than brashly assailing those who differ from our point of view.
I get plenty of help from people on this list and sometimes it takes a while to realize I was just helped and not dumped on. I too 'am sensitive, get hurt easily, and don't suffer well'.
I also have to struggle daily just to figure out what some people on this list are actually saying. Tony lost me several times before I got the gist of what he was sharing.
But enough of my limitations.
No wait there is more.
I'm not too much afraid of entering the fray when certain subjects are involved.
I have yet to let myself get into the sort of stuff the original poster referred to. I have enough inadequacies to contend with, without fumbling about exposing my limited knowledge regarding women, dating, and other such 'discovery' issues.
I'm gaining on God age-wise, and yet feel every bit as much the original poster's discomfort. I too have anxiety about exposing my ignorance about what women want..let alone hanging out my loneliness, neediness, or any of those softer, more vulnerable aspects of my being for others to mess with.
I support any man who can come to this forum to even mention these kinds of doubts. Better still I admire anyone courageous enough to broach the subject at all.
Russ

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.


Tony

[RichBodyJuicer]

"a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases"

Tony's eloquent thoughts on creative expression and communication reminds me of tantric lovemaking. That will be a fun thought to hold the next time I am in a conversation.

Rich