Global Warming Fraud?

[Zeno Swijtink]

How come you guyz aren’t out there cloud seeding???

It's done (by Willie's guys )

Cloud seeding to fight global warming approved for Australian ski region
https://www.climateark.org/shared/re...x?linkid=30736

[Lorrie]

NASA Science News for December 18, 2007

A powerful jet from a supermassive black hole is blasting a nearby galaxy and possibly causing profound problems for planets in the jet's path.
FULL STORY at https://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/18dec_assault.htm?list88053

How come you guyz aren’t out there cloud seeding???

[lynn]

Zeno..."That's good enough for me. All the issues you mention affect our influence on the atmosphere and working on these is, for me, working on reducing our GHG emissions."

I've watched the quality of my life go downhill the last several yrs....Why? bottom line is overpopulation, which drives overdevelopment..And we do not have the water to keep supporting more people coming in...I'm p*ssed and frustrated because people are not focusing on one of these basic bottom line issues that reduces quality of life (if you care about biodiversity of the planet) - overpopulation...Instead, too many people are gettin' their heads stuck up in the clouds yackin' about the weather changes...

No matter how I look at it...Weather changes and disasters are going to happen whether we like it or not, and we do not have much control over that...But, we can make decisions about how we live here on the earth, and how we create life for ourselves here...

Ian Christie casts a weather eye over the promises of the technical fix brigade.

I'm very sick of the techno-fixy types myself...Maybe the 'fixes' sometimes work...But, we humans seem to operate on the assumption that we know what the heck we are doing - when more often than not we are in a state of ignorance about what the h*ll we are doing, and what the outcome of our 'fixes' are going to be...And I feel like screaming every time I have to hear some stupid conversation someone is having on their cell phone while in public, and watching more and more rude drivers on the road...The more 'techy' our culture gets...the more self-centered, selfish, 'garbagey', and fat it seems to become....

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Willie...We might do a lot of things if we try, and the worse the crisis gets, the more incentive there will be to try. It would be nice if citizens would support those who try.

There are always going to be 'crisis' to deal with...and we cannot stop disasters from happening due to climate - we can only help people to prepare for them...I still think that those who keep focusing on trying to 'protect' climate are 'pissin' in the wind'...

[saysni]

Maybe. But then, you writing your message and hitting the "Submit Reply" button: tell me, in doing so don't you express some hope on making a difference?

And doesn't that hope mean you're not completely sold on determinism?

I frankly don't hold out much hope whatsoever for humanity to change the course we are on, leading to some manner of imminent global 'catastrophe', whether we induce it first or induce 'nature' to do the deed for us. All of our manipulation of the 'environment' i see as a natural progression of the species and our supposed highly advanced brains. As an amerikan my carbon footprint is HUGE no matter what lengths i go to minimize my impact, and i like to think i go to great lengths relative to some statistical 'norm'. My life experience has brought me to a place where i do what i can to the extent i am able, and i try to savor and appreciate each moment as best i can for what it is.
I like to think i'm not completely sold on ANYTHING, save for the idea that someone needs to quietly and quickly take George Bush AND Dick Cheney out back and put bullets in their brains asap. NSA/CIA/FBI are you there? Copy that? Over.

[Melodymama]

saysmi said I frankly don't hold out much hope whatsoever

I think it is unfortunate that some have lost hope as I consider it to be an essential part of moving forward with a positive attitude. That is essential for us to think that we are doing some good to undo the harm that we have done to the planet. It is how we feel any sense of responsibility for our future and that of our progeny. If we see the techies as full of bologna, we are saying that science cannot figure a way out of this mess, and I am confident science will find many solutions. And meanwhile...yes I...

do what i can to the extent i am able, and i try to savor and appreciate each moment as best i can for what it is.

And the wonder of what each moment holds is in the beauty of what is around us and the people we touch and who touch us (no, Mykil, not necessarily sexually.) The continuing debating with each other and with the pundits or techies or whomever is educational, but is mostly misunderstanding the context and semantics. It is also keeping to the negative bent. I believe that negativity is detrimental to our psyche, to our environment and to the potential positive action we can take. Is this just an intellectual exercise or are we really ready to do as much as we can as we are enlightened on the ways in which we can effect change? When so much is going wrong, I can only look to myself to change what I can and I can hope other well intentioned humans do the same. And there is so much that is wonderful each day that I want to be alert enough to see and appreciate.
Thanks for reading, and do not correct my spelling or syntax. It is what it is. Laura

[handy]

from today's Washington Times

Year of global cooling
By David Deming
December 19, 2007

Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards.

Since the mid-19th century, the mean global temperature has increased by 0.7 degrees Celsius. This slight warming is not unusual, and lies well within the range of natural variation. Carbon dioxide continues to build in the atmosphere, but the mean planetary temperature hasn't increased significantly for nearly nine years. Antarctica is getting colder. Neither the intensity nor the frequency of hurricanes has increased. The 2007 season was the third-quietest since 1966. In 2006 not a single hurricane made landfall in the U.S.

South America this year experienced one of its coldest winters in decades. In Buenos Aires, snow fell for the first time since the year 1918. Dozens of homeless people died from exposure. In Peru, 200 people died from the cold and thousands more became infected with respiratory diseases. Crops failed, livestock perished, and the Peruvian government declared a state of emergency.

Unexpected bitter cold swept the entire Southern Hemisphere in 2007. Johannesburg, South Africa, had the first significant snowfall in 26 years. Australia experienced the coldest June ever. In northeastern Australia, the city of Townsville underwent the longest period of continuously cold weather since 1941. In New Zealand, the weather turned so cold that vineyards were endangered.

Last January, $1.42 billion worth of California produce was lost to a devastating five-day freeze. Thousands of agricultural employees were thrown out of work. At the supermarket, citrus prices soared. In the wake of the freeze, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger asked President Bush to issue a disaster declaration for affected counties. A few months earlier, Mr. Schwarzenegger had enthusiastically signed the California Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006, a law designed to cool the climate. California Sen. Barbara Boxer continues to push for similar legislation in the U.S. Senate.

In April, a killing freeze destroyed 95 percent of South Carolina's peach crop, and 90 percent of North Carolina's apple harvest. At Charlotte, N.C., a record low temperature of 21 degrees Fahrenheit on April 8 was the coldest ever recorded for April, breaking a record set in 1923. On June 8, Denver recorded a new low of 31 degrees Fahrenheit. Denver's temperature records extend back to 1872.

Recent weeks have seen the return of unusually cold conditions to the Northern Hemisphere. On Dec. 7, St. Cloud, Minn., set a new record low of minus 15 degrees Fahrenheit. On the same date, record low temperatures were also recorded in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

Extreme cold weather is occurring worldwide. On Dec. 4, in Seoul, Korea, the temperature was a record minus 5 degrees Celsius. Nov. 24, in Meacham, Ore., the minimum temperature was 12 degrees Fahrenheit colder than the previous record low set in 1952. The Canadian government warns that this winter is likely to be the coldest in 15 years.

Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri are just emerging from a destructive ice storm that left at least 36 people dead and a million without electric power. People worldwide are being reminded of what used to be common sense: Cold temperatures are inimical to human welfare and warm weather is beneficial. Left in the dark and cold, Oklahomans rushed out to buy electric generators powered by gasoline, not solar cells. No one seemed particularly concerned about the welfare of polar bears, penguins or walruses. Fossil fuels don't seem so awful when you're in the cold and dark.

If you think any of the preceding facts can falsify global warming, you're hopelessly naive. Nothing creates cognitive dissonance in the mind of a true believer. In 2005, a Canadian Greenpeace representative explained “global warming can mean colder, it can mean drier, it can mean wetter.” In other words, all weather variations are evidence for global warming. I can't make this stuff up.

Global warming has long since passed from scientific hypothesis to the realm of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Deming is a geophysicist, an adjunct scholar with the National Center for Policy Analysis, and associate professor of Arts and Sciences at the University of Oklahoma.

[Zeno Swijtink]

from today's Washington Times

Year of global cooling
By David Deming
December 19, 2007

Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards.
/snip/
David Deming is a geophysicist, an adjunct scholar with the National Center for Policy Analysis, and associate professor of Arts and Sciences at the University of Oklahoma.

It's hard to believe that such nonsense can be published even in the Washington Times (not to be confused withe the Washington Post). The Washington Times is owned and operated by News World Communications, Inc., the media arm of Reverend Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church.

David Deming confuses weather with climate, just as some people do when they blame every hurricane on global climate change.

Global climate change is an issue of trends, changing averages, changing variations, changing patterns of maxima and minima. It is called Global Warming since the world average temperature is showing an upward trend.


This image shows the instrumental record of global average temperatures as compiled by the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia and the Hadley Centre of the UK Meteorological Office.

It does not mean that we cannot have severe cold spells in various parts of the world.

***

2007 BRINGS NEAR-RECORD HEAT
https://www.sciencemag.org/content/v...57/s-scope.dtl

With data through November, NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) has determined that 2007 will likely be Earth's second-warmest year on record. The strongest warming signal occurred in the Arctic, where temperatures were more than 3°C above the 1951-1980 mean. And the planet's global mean temperature was 0.6°C above the average, despite this year's low solar radiance and strong La Niña phenomena, which both tend to lower Earth's temperature. "Given that both of these natural effects were in their cool phases in 2007, it makes the unusual warmth this year all the more notable," says an analysis GISS provided Science. The six warmest years in Goddard's 128-year record occurred in the past decade, with 2005 leading the list.

[Willie Lumplump]

In 2005, a Canadian Greenpeace representative explained “global warming can mean colder, it can mean drier, it can mean wetter.” In other words, all weather variations are evidence for global warming. I can't make this stuff up. Global warming has long since passed from scientific hypothesis to the realm of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Local cooling is not inconsistent with global warming. The term "global warming" is only a short-hand way of referring to a complex system of enegy exchanges. An increasing amount of energy is being pumped into a system of energy exchanges involving land, sea, and atmosphere. Not every point on the earth's surface will respond to the exchanges by warming to the same degree, and some points will actually get colder. If global warming melts Arctic ice rapidly enough to shut down the North Atlantic thermohaline conveyor belt that moderates Europe's climate, Europe will enter another ice age. Ice will form because of so-called "global" warming. Your problem is semantic. You've taken what is meant to be a convenient, short-hand descriptive term and interpreted it literally. Your literalness makes it easy for you to find contradictions that you characterize as ridiculous. If you stop being literal, the contradictions will disappear.

[Willie Lumplump]

I like to think i'm not completely sold on ANYTHING, save for the idea that someone needs to quietly and quickly take George Bush AND Dick Cheney out back and put bullets in their brains asap. NSA/CIA/FBI are you there? Copy that? Over.

Ummmm. . . as much as I agree with your sentiments, more indirect expressions might save you a lot of trouble. The fascist thought-police are automated, and one never knows when they are listening. You may go into somebody's files and then, some years later, simply disappear into Kazahkstan never to be seen again.

[lynn]

Clancy...You continue to contradict yourself. If, as you said in an earlier post, we are altering the climate to our detriment by our own actions, obviously we can stop doing more harm.

No, I never said we are altering the climate...I'm going to assume it's a possiblity that we might have some affect on it...but, the sun along with all kinds of other factors seem to have much more powerful influences on climate than humans currently do...So, I don't believe we are altering it to the extent that we can 'protect' it from changing, or stop some massive global climate catastrophes...

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saysni...I like to think i'm not completely sold on ANYTHING, save for the idea that someone needs to quietly and quickly take George Bush AND Dick Cheney out back and put -------------------------------------.NSA/CIA/FBI are you there? Copy that? Over.

Uh, oh...You are egging the FBI, NSA on...You are freakin' nuts!...

I suggest you get a hold of yourself and delete immediately!!...

[lynn]

Okay...Everybody can take the 'Global Warming Test'....


https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/G...est/start.html

[lynn]

And maybe some people could actually read some simple stuff from the test...

..."From a geological perspective, global warming is the normal state of our accustomed natural world. Technically, we are in an "interglacial phase," or between ice ages. The question is not really if an ice age will return, but when.

Don't panic when you hear global alarmists warning the earth may have warmed almost 1 degree in the last 200 years. Although this still hasn't yet been proven, it is in fact exactly what should be happening if everything is normal.

If Global Warming stops, then you can start worrying! It means our warm interglacial phase is over and we may be heading into another Ice Age!"...

[saysni]

Quote:

saysni wrote:
I like to think i'm not completely sold on ANYTHING, save for the idea that someone needs to quietly and quickly take George Bush AND Dick Cheney out back and put bullets in their brains asap. NSA/CIA/FBI are you there? Copy that? Over.

{WillieLL replied: Ummmm. . . as much as I agree with your sentiments, more indirect expressions might save you a lot of trouble. The fascist thought-police are automated, and one never knows when they are listening. You may go into somebody's files and then, some years later, simply disappear into Kazahkstan never to be seen again.}

Well if the goonies come a knockin' i can always wish i'd kept my trap shut. But you know what? Ain't gonna live my life that way. Besides, i've always wanted to see central asia. More than likely we are ALL in someone's files. And, frankly my dear, i don't give a damn. If the gov't is gonna come after lil'ol'me, well then god bless 'em. And let it be a lesson to you. I'll try and send a postcard from Alma-Ata...or wherever.
[with apologies for the diversion from the GW/CC thread - boy this sure brings out the maroon in us don't it?]

[Zeno Swijtink]

I am wary of climate engineering ideas, such as the one mentioned by Willie, seeding the oceans with iron dust. These are not something to rush into. See cutting below.

Referring to these climate engineering ideas, Ross Gelbspan wrote on Grist:

"What these scientists are offering us are technological expressions of their own supercharged sense of desperation."

https://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/10/165845/92

[Willie Lumplump]

the sun along with all kinds of other factors seem to have much more powerful influences on climate than humans currently do

This has been the subject of a hundred studies, and all have come to the same conclusion: Increased luminosity of the sun can account for only a small fraction, maybe around 2%-5%, of the amount of global warming observed in recent decades. Other natural factors have also been ruled out as major causes of the warming.

[Willie Lumplump]

What these scientists are offering us are technological expressions of their own supercharged sense of desperation."--R. Gelbspan

Well, yes, of course. The whole world would have to be desperate to attempt such a risky measure. But if climate change keeps heading the way it's heading now, we may eventually become desperate enough to accept the risk.

[Willie Lumplump]

It's truly amazing that the overwhelming majority of the world's climatologists, from 117 countries, can be so wrong when you obviously are so right. Why don't they believe you and the oil companies?

There has always been a strong streak of anti-intellectualism in American life, and the Republican Party has very successfully exploited that streak ever since the beginning of the Reagan administration.

[lynn]

Clancy..."It's truly amazing that the overwhelming majority of the world's climatologists, from 117 countries, can be so wrong when you obviously are so right.

Isn't it though!....

Why don't they believe you and the oil companies?"

Actually, if you go to the link I posted, you could send your statement to the geologist who wrote the statement you responded to...

[lynn]

Willie..."There has always been a strong streak of anti-intellectualism in American life, and the Republican Party has very successfully exploited that streak ever since the beginning of the Reagan administration."

Uh, huh...And what does this have to do with the 'debate' on 'climate change'...?...

When someone disagrees with you - or has a different opinion, perspective than you - do you automatically pull out your 'anti-intellectual' card?...eh?...

----------------

So, you don't believe the world's most respected climatologists from 117 different countries, but you do believe a geologist who disagrees with them. Why not consult a car mechanic re global warming? At least he works with greenhouse gas emitters.

What I don't presume to know...is that humans can change the direction of climate patterns on this planet...

If you want to be condescending, or think I am 'anti-intellectual', or other such ridiculous nonsense, just because of that...be my guest...

And for your info....I do know among scientists there is not just a lone geologist on the planet who disagrees with some of the 'climate change' hoopla goin' around...

[Dark Shadows]

Brrrrrrrrr! Last time I checked my outdoor thermometer registered 35 degrees and dropping. With this chilly weather, its kind of hard to believe there's such a thing as global warming :)

I'm new here, is this typical for Sonoma Valley? I find the temperatures even more extreme in Santa Rosa. And you all think Washington is bad! I'd much rather have rain than be chapped all the time.

It sure has been getting warmer lately...

[Zeno Swijtink]

It's truly amazing that the overwhelming majority of the world's climatologists, from 117 countries, can be so wrong when you obviously are so right. Why don't they believe you and the oil companies?

If the church across the street were larger, with better music and a more grand light show, you would not not necessarily join it, would you, and leave your trusted congregation behind, with all your families and friends?

[Zeno Swijtink]

If the church across the street were larger, with better music and a more grand light show, you would not not necessarily join it, would you, and leave your trusted congregation behind, with all your families and friends?

And, yes, Mykil, our girlz are way cuter.



Ecobabes Go!
https://ecobabes.org/

[lynn]

Clancy...That is, at least, a start...

Not sure what you mean by 'a start'...I've basically stated the same thing before...

so why are you disputing the overwhelming majority of the world's experts on the subject?

Gee, Clancy...Where do you get...'majority' of the world's 'experts' from?....Is it the 'majority' of the world's 'experts', claiming to be the 'majority of the world's experts'?....Or, do you think it's the 'majority of the world's experts'?...Do you know how many of these so called 'experts' there are in the world?...Do you have a list of all of them, and why they should qualify for such a list?...If you do, then I'll give you credit for at least counting how many makes the 'overwhelming majority'...

I learned a long time ago, not to jump into believing something just because I might be surrounded by a bunch of "I-know-the-truth-ers'...It comes with almost any group, and group think...

---------------

Yes, that's the sad state we're in, lots of people would see little difference in comparing a large and a small church to overwhelming scientific consensus and fringe positions, especially when the consensus is so uncomfortable. Add to that the economic interests that have a stake in maintaining the status quo and we're in serious trouble.

Well, if the 'overwhelming scientific consensus' is so freakin' overwhelming...Then ya' got nothin' to worry about - do ya'...

[Braggi]

Sad that the news is dominated by articles about the Inhofe "report" presented as though the global warming "debate" was over and Exxon won.

Here's an all too rare editorial on the side of science complete with links: https://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/21/16436/710


-Jeff

[Braggi]

Brrrrrrrrr! Last time I checked my outdoor thermometer registered 35 degrees and dropping. With this chilly weather, its kind of hard to believe there's such a thing as global warming :)

I'm new here, is this typical for Sonoma Valley? I find the temperatures even more extreme in Santa Rosa. And you all think Washington is bad! I'd much rather have rain than be chapped all the time.

Ha ha! I grew up in Escondido, in north San Diego County. That's another 550 miles south of where I am now. Winters there had far more frosty mornings than here. Overall, the climate here is milder than in Escondido, but we get about 6 times as much rain. I'll take it.

BTW, we get a Hel of a lot more sunny days here than Washington, and I think you'll agree that's a nice thing, global warming or not.

-Jeff

[handy]

Yup... this guy has it about right, I think.

https://www.spiked-online.com/index..../article/4194/

This one seems spot on, as well.

https://www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm

enjoy

[Tinque]

What a beautiful photograph !

And, yes, Mykil, our girlz are way cuter.



Ecobabes Go!
https://ecobabes.org/

[Willie Lumplump]

When someone disagrees with you - or has a different opinion, perspective than you - do you automatically pull out your 'anti-intellectual' card?...eh?...

Not automatically, but for a lay person to oppose the opinion of vast majority of experts in any scientific field is a profoundly anti-intellectual act. I can understand questioning the basis of any scientific opinion because one learns through questioning. But for a lay person to take a definite stance against what amounts to a near-consensus in a highly technical field, is, as I say, an act of anti-intellectualism. I don't consider the very few opposing experts to be anti-intellectual because they presumably have their own good reasons (corruption by petroleum interests or a skewed interpretation of facts that they well understand, etc.). But you have no expertise, at least none that I know of. You are a lay person.

[Willie Lumplump]

Brrrrrrrrr! Last time I checked my outdoor thermometer registered 35 degrees and dropping. With this chilly weather, its kind of hard to believe there's such a thing as global warming :)

There is a BIG difference between weather and climate.

[Willie Lumplump]

I simply don't believe that you are as ignorant of the facts (and mainstream news) as you pretend to be, nor do I think you are so stupid that you believe that the scientific method is equal to the 'group think' of almost 'any group'.

Whatever your motive is, your methods and lack of intellectual integrity in this thread are as entertaining as the Fox News commentators you're mimicking.

I doff my hat to a superior analytical mind.