Quaaquaaa, trolls, social contracts, punishment & healing

[Barry]

I have decided to ban the person who went by the quaaquaaa username. She has posted racial and sexual slurs both publicly (which I edited out) and privately. Her brief presence here has raised concerns for serveral members. It is clear to me that she is not ready to join this progressive conscious community. I have banned her in order maintain WaccoBB.net as "safe space" where everyone is treated with respect.

Barry
Moderator

[Moon]

Thank you. I'm one of the people who got some of her white supremacist and homophobic slurs privately,
and she was also quite rude to a womon who posted a comment about a dog.

I have decided to ban the person who went by the quaaquaaa username. She has posted racial and sexual slurs both publicly (which I edited out) and privately. Her brief presence here has raised concerns for serveral members. It is clear to me that she is not ready to join this progressive conscious community. I have banned her in order maintain WaccoBB.net as "safe space" where everyone is treated with respect.
Barry
Moderator

[ThePhiant]

I have decided to ban the person who went by the quaaquaaa username. She has posted racial and sexual slurs both publicly (which I edited out) and privately. Her brief presence here has raised concerns for serveral members. It is clear to me that she is not ready to join this progressive conscious community. I have banned her in order maintain WaccoBB.net as "safe space" where everyone is treated with respect.

Barry
Moderator

I don't know what was being said, but even different or opposite opinions should be seen or heard.
Or do we need to isolate ourselves from anything as unpleasant as somebody else's thinking in order to protect our minds?
what is safe and for who?

[Moon]

I don't know what was being said, but even different or opposite opinions should be seen or heard. Or do we need to isolate ourselves from anything as unpleasant as somebody else's thinking in order to protect our minds? what is safe and for who?--The Phiant

Here's one example of her rudeness: [I DONT BELIEVE YOUR STORY. sorry i just dont buy it.--Quaaquaa] Actually, besides being rude,
it's kind of bizarre--what in the world could she have found hard to believe about an ill-treated dog's persistently attacking a child? I know
of one who killed a baby. Also, she emailed me saying "the country is overrun with Mexicans and gay people." These examples don't
qualify as thinking; she wasn't debating how to end bigotry. We already know there are bigots and boors. She can always join a listserve
not specifically for political progressives.

[Sonomamark]

All social contexts have standards of behavior--following them is a part of the social contract. This person's concept of "anarchy" was to be able to be rude, offensive, intolerant, and insulting--she pretty much defined herself by violating the social contract. I had to deal with her...product, and so did others, and I'm grateful to Barry for recognizing that she was a subtractor, not an adder, to what he's building here.

She wasn't bounced for voicing some kind of "heretical opinion". She was bounced for being a jerk. Not a protected right.

Thanks, Barry.

I don't know what was being said, but even different or opposite opinions should be seen or heard. Or do we need to isolate ourselves from anything as unpleasant as somebody else's thinking in order to protect our minds? what is safe and for who?-

[ThePhiant]

I don't know what was being said, but even different or opposite opinions should be seen or heard. Or do we need to isolate ourselves from anything as unpleasant as somebody else's thinking in order to protect our minds? what is safe and for who?--The Phiant

Here's one example of her rudeness: [I DONT BELIEVE YOUR STORY. sorry i just dont buy it.--Quaaquaa] Actually, besides being rude,
it's kind of bizarre--what in the world could she have found hard to believe about an ill-treated dog's persistently attacking a child? I know
of one who killed a baby. Also, she emailed me saying "the country is overrun with Mexicans and gay people." These examples don't
qualify as thinking; she wasn't debating how to end bigotry. We already know there are bigots and boors. She can always join a listserve
not specifically for political progressives.

the interesting part about your posting is that you are calling people names;'bigots and boors'
she is expressing her world as being overrun by Mexicans and gay people, which is possible, I don't know. Do you know??????
Are we just preaching to the choir???? or are we able to tolerate some boisterous folks that need some more time?????

if Wacco is an exclusive club of only like minded people, please let me know!
I don't want to get stuck with only the good anarchists....................

[ThePhiant]

All social contexts have standards of behavior--following them is a part of the social contract. This person's concept of "anarchy" was to be able to be rude, offensive, intolerant, and insulting--she pretty much defined herself by violating the social contract. I had to deal with her...product, and so did others, and I'm grateful to Barry for recognizing that she was a subtractor, not an adder, to what he's building here.

She wasn't bounced for voicing some kind of "heretical opinion". She was bounced for being a jerk. Not a protected right.

Thanks, Barry.

once again, you too are calling people names and judging them.
is that allowed on this site????????????????
'jerks' are usually people who aren't able to express themselves very well, are we that smallminded that we can't tolerate a little ineloquence??????
did we all start out being so smart

[Sonomamark]

I categorically disagree, ThePhiant. Most people who act like jerks MEAN to act like jerks. They're not inarticulate--they've developed a behavior pattern which meets some psychological need on their part by alienating and provoking others. While some degree of tolerance is goodhearted, after awhile, it's codependent. No one, and no community, should agree to be abused because it "understands why" someone is abusive, rude, and...a jerk.

Yes, I judge this person. I think that's fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with judgement. It's naive to think that judgement is "smallminded". If we didn't do it, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the doorframe and the door, and we'd have black eyes a lot of the time.

There is a big difference between tolerance and turning a blind eye to deliberate shit-disturbing. This person was given multiple chances, fucked up too many times, and got bounced. Now she's had a lesson. She'll either learn, or tell herself a story about how it was someone else's fault. Not our problem.

once again, you too are calling people names and judging them.
is that allowed on this site????????????????
'jerks' are usually people who aren't able to express themselves very well, are we that smallminded that we can't tolerate a little ineloquence??????
did we all start out being so smart

[Barry]

I also think calling someone a "jerk" (even our highly respected supreme commander, Dubya) is going too far. It violates the standard of respect that I am trying to uphold here.

The reasons that a person may act like a "jerk", which we will never really know, are not that dissimilar to the various psychological/emotional forces that give rise to our own personality "quirks", such as an aggressive conversational style , and deserve our compassion and not our condemnation.

That said, it's a separate matter whether it is appropriate for them to be welcomed here, as they can have a chilling effect on the whole community. It's my job as moderator to uphold a standard of respect and to protect the community space.

In Quaaquaaa's case, after she first posted a public comment that was disrespectful to gays, I both removed the comment and wrote her privately that it was not welcome here. She then included a similar remark in her private comments to another member along with another racial slur. In addition she made other questionable public and private comments in her brief time here. This shows a pattern of behavior that I can not tolerate and I think harms our community space.

One factor I think that is important to take into consideration, especially when it comes to banning, is the net effect on the community of the person's actions. If, on balance, we'd be better off without their "contribution" then I come down on the side of banning. OTOH, if they have much to contribute and occasionally step outside the lines, I can have more patience, while still trying reign in their excesses, as above.

My inclination has been to inform the community of my actions, especially banning (or perhaps better put as "no longer being welcome") because the person's presence and now absence is of concern to many in the community. While that is still my inclination, the detriments of such public postings are becoming clearer.

WaccoBB.net is a service that I offer to the public, just as someone who opens a restaurant or puts on a public ticketed event. There are certain standards of behavior that are expected, along with whatever rules the proprietor sees fit to establish. No one has a "right" to be here, while most everybody is invited.

Questions of moderation are tricky. There's a myriad of things (and combination of things) that can happen. The fact that it is possible for members to email other members privately requires that our members be able to hold a high standard in all their communications. In all but the most blatant cases, I try to engage or warn the person before taking more direct action, as I did in this case.

It's all a judgment call and I take the responsibility for making it. And while I've moderated this community for many years now to generally, though not unanimous, good reviews, I know I'm not perfect. I would welcome a council of advisers who have some experience in community leadership and have an interest in the matter (and if you have read this far you probably do!) to share their perspective and wisdom with me when similar issues arise in the future. If you would be interested in being a member of such a council please contact me at [email protected]. Thanks!

[gypsey]

I have been following the feedback of everyone re the "banning" including Barry. As a society and as a social group, we cannot survive without boundaries and accountabilities. Quaaquaa does not need your compassion. She needs objectivity and limits; and perhaps if someone had asked for accountability and set some boundaries a long time ago, she would not be "acting out" on this forum. It's all about choices and she has made the choice not to abide by the guidelines of this forum. Feeling sorry for her is very misplaced, in my opinion. The issue is really not about her or judging her, but about how we feel about our OWN standards and values; are they important enough to live by?

I categorically disagree, ThePhiant. Most people who act like jerks MEAN to act like jerks. They're not inarticulate--they've developed a behavior pattern which meets some psychological need on their part by alienating and provoking others. While some degree of tolerance is goodhearted, after awhile, it's codependent. No one, and no community, should agree to be abused because it "understands why" someone is abusive, rude, and...a jerk.

Yes, I judge this person. I think that's fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with judgement. It's naive to think that judgement is "smallminded". If we didn't do it, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the doorframe and the door, and we'd have black eyes a lot of the time.

There is a big difference between tolerance and turning a blind eye to deliberate shit-disturbing. This person was given multiple chances, fucked up too many times, and got bounced. Now she's had a lesson. She'll either learn, or tell herself a story about how it was someone else's fault. Not our problem.

[footographer]

Absolutely! And thanks, Barry for your keeping this space 'clean'. Sometimes you just have to say enough...

I have been following the feedback of everyone re the "banning" including Barry. As a society and as a social group, we cannot survive without boundaries and accountabilities. Quaaquaa does not need your compassion. She needs objectivity and limits; and perhaps if someone had asked for accountability and set some boundaries a long time ago, she would not be "acting out" on this forum. It's all about choices and she has made the choice not to abide by the guidelines of this forum. Feeling sorry for her is very misplaced, in my opinion. The issue is really not about her or judging her, but about how we feel about our OWN standards and values; are they important enough to live by?

[~kam*ala~]

Oh my god!!! This is by and far the funniest thing I have seen this morning, God I love WEST COUNTY. God Bless Sonoma County, God Bless Us All.

The chick is obviously an internet troll; I love that it was discussed so intensely!

Thank you WACCO.

~k~

[rnichols]

Let us stop talking about Q and get on to how we can ban GWB.

[mykil]

yeah; but was she cute?

Let us stop talking about Q and get on to how we can ban GWB.

[~kam*ala~]

what is GWB???

[gypsey]

My feeling is, as long as it is important to the group, let's discuss. What could be more important than how we work together and communicate? On the other hand, if everyone is now comfortable that enough info and POVs have been exchanged, we can now talk about banning GWB, whatever that is. OH! Do you mean "George W. Bush"? Wasn't he elected? While he didn't get my vote, I don't plan to "ban" him. Just my two cents ...and that's what I love about WACCO.

Let us stop talking about Q and get on to how we can ban GWB.

[Moon]

On the other hand, if everyone is now comfortable that enough info and POVs have been exchanged, we can now talk about banning GWB, whatever that is. OH! Do you mean "George W. Bush"?

Thank you. I had trouble deciphering that, too.

Wasn't he elected?

The second time he got into the White House he may or may not have been elected; the first time he definitely was not. Every time
i get one of those sheets of notes to sign and send back for a peace or environmental group to forward to the White House, i cross
out President and write in Mr.

While he didn't get my vote, I don't plan to "ban" him. Just my two cents ...and that's what I love about WACCO.

[rnichols]

Ban means impeach, and since he, as "Commander and Chief" of the military has committed a number of questionable acts such as torture, spying on US citizens, kidkanpping, killing of civilians, (need I go on?) it is not out of the question that he is impeachable, and for my money, good for a stay in the pen. If the Domocrats take the House and Senate, we should demand that they impeach this fool.

[Roland Jacopetti]

Hellow, Edward. I read your recent email relative to the Quaaquaaa controversy. I have to say, right off, that I wonder about the double-as on the first Qua and the triple\as on the second. Is that original?

Where did you hear this rumour that Quaaquaaa is cute? I've followed the emails to some extent, though I must say that yours focussed my attention much more than the previous ones. Anyway, whether she is or isn't, I think we need to address the question: Who Is Quaaquaaa?

That question out of the way, we should proceed to the matter of punishment. Though, generally, I'm not in favor of punishment, your Chow Fun idea has a lot going for it. I feel, though, we should ask Ms. Quaa(a) what she feels about submitting to a penalty for unacceptable behavior. She could either submit her thoughts to us in private emails, or, if that seems too intimate, perhaps she could take advantage of the alternate Wacco for comments.

The web is an enormous sandpile, and you just never know who's next to you with a bucket of water, making a sandcastle.

Your Servant,

Roland

I have to chime in here. This thread is long but we have not yet addressed one of the most important aspects of this important and defining incidince of intolerance and what can be reasonbly considered socially acceptable behavior.

The point that I would like to underline is one of PUNISHMENT! Yes, you heard it right, I said it. Someone had to say it. For starters, I would like to make reference to the commentary I have quoted above from a previous poster about the rumor that this lady is cute (do you have a photo?). If that is the case, then we should consider an appropriate form of discipline for those people who misbehave on the Wacco list. This is serious business, folks, lest our Wacco community crumble into anarchy.

We need to take people like Quaaquaaa, put them in the middle of the room at the H&H office in Sebastopol, dress them in chamisoles and then whip them all repeatedly with wet noodles.

Now the type of noodle we should use is very important because it is the medium through which we are delivering the punishment, therefore, it has to be the right one. I propose that we flagelate people with a chinese noodle called: "Chow Fun." It is an extra wide noodle that will cover more surface area when it comes into contact with the buttocks but at the same time is soft (a wet noodle) so that it doesn't cause any tearing of the skin. This is not bdsm, it is castigation.

What do you think?

Edward

[jeeves]

Can we please end this and stop discussing the woman, her behavior and the resulting banishment? She is not being punished, she is being "cut from the herd" due to unacceptable antisocial behavior. I personally experienced her viscous - and cowardly sent in private mode - emails.
Enough - let's move on to more positive matters, please.
Jeeves

I have to chime in here. This thread is long but we have not yet addressed one of the most important aspects of this important and defining incidince of intolerance and what can be reasonbly considered socially acceptable behavior.

The point that I would like to underline is one of PUNISHMENT! Yes, you heard it right, I said it. Someone had to say it. For starters, I would like to make reference to the commentary I have quoted above from a previous poster about the rumor that this lady is cute (do you have a photo?). If that is the case, then we should consider an appropriate form of discipline for those people who misbehave on the Wacco list. This is serious business, folks, lest our Wacco community crumble into anarchy.

We need to take people like Quaaquaaa, put them in the middle of the room at the H&H office in Sebastopol, dress them in chamisoles and then whip them all repeatedly with wet noodles.

Now the type of noodle we should use is very important because it is the medium through which we are delivering the punishment, therefore, it has to be the right one. I propose that we flagelate people with a chinese noodle called: "Chow Fun." It is an extra wide noodle that will cover more surface area when it comes into contact with the buttocks but at the same time is soft (a wet noodle) so that it doesn't cause any tearing of the skin. This is not bdsm, it is castigation.

What do you think?

Edward

[Barry]

Can we please end this and stop discussing the woman, her behavior and the resulting banishment? She is not being punished, she is being "cut from the herd" due to unacceptable antisocial behavior. I personally experienced her viscous - and cowardly sent in private mode - emails.
Enough - let's move on to more positive matters, please.
Jeeves

My sense is that discussion has already moved on from QQ to more (chow) fun matters! I'm going to let it stay in GC for a bit longer if the posts continue to be thoughtful, well written and creative!

[wildflower]

This discussion is so amazing! I LOVE it!

But Edward....if you're gonna use words(and concepts!) like "flagelate" At least don't misspell it!!! I believe it's correctly spelled flagellate...right?

And Jeeves....I don't believe you mean that the lady is as you wrote,"I personally experienced her viscous....." do you mean you got close enough to find out she was "sticky" ????

BEST
wildflower


???
...

Can we please end this and stop discussing the woman, her behavior and the resulting banishment? She is not being punished, she is being "cut from the herd" due to unacceptable antisocial behavior. I personally experienced her viscous - and cowardly sent in private mode - emails.
Enough - let's move on to more positive matters, please.
Jeeves

[mykil]

Humor is a great healing power, Sorry if What I wrote upset anyone! Just trying to lighten the load and let peace previel. Was that spelt right Wildflower?

This discussion is so amazing! I LOVE it!

But Edward....if you're gonna use words(and concepts!) like "flagelate" At least don't misspell it!!! I believe it's correctly spelled flagellate...right?

And Jeeves....I don't believe you mean that the lady is as you wrote,"I personally experienced her viscous.....do you mean you got close enough to find out she was "sticky" ????

BEST
wildflower


???
...

[Juggledude]

Humor is a great healing power, Sorry if What I wrote upset anyone! Just trying to lighten the load and let peace previel. Was that spelt right Wildflower?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source spelt2  /spɛlt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spelt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
-noun a wheat, Triticum aestivum spelta, native to southern Europe and western Asia, used chiefly for livestock feed.

FIREFOX 2 includes spellchecking!

but, from a guy named mykil, whadda gonna expect? (but I hear he's kinda cute)

All seriousness aside, I'm thinking this thread would be more fun in the conscious relationship category, where, instead of undergoing the mental castigation of a persona non presentius, we might just find someone willing, nae, eager! to undergo the discipline du jour.

I'm on both sides of this fence, let the fun continue, and move it to another focus!

Royce