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  1. TopTop #1
    Larry Robinson's Avatar
    WaccoBB Poet Laureate

    Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

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    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
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    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness




    From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    "Note: The purpose of this article is not to speak to those who are spreading Bill Gates-is-the-Antichrist or the coronavirus-is-a-hoax memes..."

    I'd like to clarify my own position on Bill Gates, because I didn't arrive at it through any "memes". As I have said, I came upon this Corona-virus Crisis (for me it started on February 7) with an open and an empty mind - a Zen mind. In the course of doing research on Bill Gates, I have come across some amazing things. For instance: Bill Gates lll is a direct descendant of Charlemagne, Alfred the Great, Robert the First of France, and William the Conqueror. That's quite a pedigree. Talk about blue blood.

    I have never had anything personal against Bill Gates - until Now. I was aware, years go that the Hollywood send-up of him as the self-made whiz kid in the Movie, “PIRATES OF SILICON VALLEY” was just that; Hollywood hype. I was also aware that he did not get the sweetheart deal to write Basic for IBM on account of his "natural brilliance" - but because of his family connections. But none of that was personal. It was just data.

    I was also aware that the Gates Family was one of “America’s Sixty Families” ( as per the book by Ferdinand Lundberg.) And, yes, William Henry Gates, the Third is related to Frederick Taylor Gates, the lieutenant of John D. Rockefeller I - for both were/are related to General Horatio Gates of the Revolutionary War.

    I was not aware of what Bill Gates has been doing for the last ten years - promoting vaccinations as a way of life & steadily buying up as much of the Media & the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex as he could. Now it has become personal. There is no way I am going to submit to a bloody mandatory vaccine. Neither will I submit to being micro-chipped by Microsoft Corp & the World Bank.

    It is evident now that Bill Gates is the front man of the plutocracy* in their end game against Humanity – [the wogs, that is] - the lower echelons of society around the Globe, whom they intend to vaccinate, micro-chip, genetically alter &/Or "cull" in order to bring about their “sustainable” number of five hundred million humans on planet earth. It is the final conflict, and the plutes have taken the
    offênse à oûtrance..

    Far from being the warm, fuzzy Mr. Rogers look & sound-alike he has been re-invented & packaged to appear to be, William Gates III is, in truth, more like Dr. Mengele.

    * Specifically, he is the front-man for the billionaires' Men's Club known as the World Economic Forum.
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 07-15-2020 at 12:43 AM.
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    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
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    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    "So my real audience is well-intended people who are doing our best to keep our loosely-defined human potential movement on an evolutionary path forward to be of greater service to humankind..:


    Well that sounds warm and fuzzy. '...Well intended people doing their best in a loosely-defined human potential movement on an evolutionary path forward, to be of greater service for humankind...' Who can argue with that? -And- who would want to stray from the Path to depart from a Cause like that ?

    But wait ! -What if the "loosely defined human potential movement" was in reality a big psy-op ? What if many of the movers and shakers in the Movement were in reality, Intelligence agents? And what if the "Movement" didn't just start up spontaneously in the 60's and 70's, but was a well-organized Movement that had been in existence - while the baby had been in gestation - for close to one hundred years at the time of the Summer of Love? -A Movement following a Plan that began in a very specific Cult way back in 1875 ?
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    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
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    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness



    From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Underneath any outrage on the surface, you may feel a deep dismay and, if you’re honest, a bit of genuine questioning of what it is in our collective movement that made such a large percentage of people susceptible to this descent into rather extreme positions, what some are calling “conspirituality” as the confluence of extreme conspiracy ideas and spirituality…

    Interesting. A “large percentage" of New Agers are 'descending' – Stephen Dinan does not say how many. But evidently, from the standpoint of "New Age Shepherds” like Stephen Dinan, these folks have left the proper, right-thinkful “New Age” fold.

    Momentous Events – such as the Corona-virus Crisis - often have this effect: of effecting Sea-Changes in Consciousness, and forcing folks into novel thought-patterns and new alignments; in creating schisms, and realignments in established Movements. –And the “New Age” is a Movement.


    Last edited by Mayacaman; 07-24-2020 at 10:48 PM.
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    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
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    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness :

    "When we share facts with these folks, we are often dismissed as simply parroting the “discredited mainstream narrative.” We have not yet “woken up” to the reality that there is a small cabal of people who are orchestrating virtually everything in the service of our enslavement. "



    Perhaps the feeling is mutual, this feeling of frustration. For my part, try as I may, I find that a certain percentage of you new agers & west county alternative life-stylers simply will not listen to logic, reason, =or= facts.

    One fact that y’all seen to be oblivious of is that there is something that historically has been termed “the class war”. –And that it is still going on, Denny. It isn’t something that ended when the cold war ended and the Berlin Wall came down...

    The reality of the class war is something that you can take home with you. It is a fact of life.

    Here, in Stephen Dinan, we have a self-described “New Age CEO” slurring the issue and representing the ruling class as a [presumably non-existent & imaginary] “small cabal of people” - as if two centuries of social science never existed at all, and can be dismissed magically, with the wave of a wand. Talk about “magical thinking.”

    It is also very much a matter of fact that Six Mega-corporations currently have come to own the “mainstream media” – and that these mega-corporations also have interlocking directorates with the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex. Just the facts.

    None of this is secret – or esoteric. And furthermore it is a fact that when the World Economic Forum met in Davos Switzerland in mid- January of this year, they already had a website up and running dedicated to hastening “Global Governance” on the wings of the “Crown Virus” – a website that was two hundred {200} layers deep.



    The fact that all you good-thinkful folks can ignore the deeper implications of these facts is nothing short of amazing to this one ( i ).

    Last edited by Barry; 07-24-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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  11. TopTop #6
    Larry Robinson's Avatar
    WaccoBB Poet Laureate

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Dear spiritual friends,

    A few important talking points by Jason Hine:

    Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for.

    Spiritual people are particularly susceptible to this because they are perceived as high on empathy and low on boundaries and therefore seen as easy to turn or manipulate.

    An effective way to defeat one's opponent is to get them to chase after imaginary enemies in order to weaken them, confuse them, control them and cover up one's really existing nefarious behaviour.

    It's an old strategy: Machiavelli and Sun Tzu describe it, its used by abusers everywhere to get their victims to trauma bond with them, and some intelligence agencies round the world are trained in such techniques.

    The overton window has shifted to the right over the last thirty years or so, so folks mistake centrists for leftists and the far right for the moderate right. Of course the far right's strategy has been to encourage and capitalise on that shift in the overton window.

    People who are disenchanted with the political center, disenchanted with "identity politics" and disenchanted with capitalism or neoliberalism would in the past have gravitated to the moderate left, far left or center right, but these days the far right have extensive recruitment and disinformation campaigns to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism towards fascism.

    Part of the fascist strategy is to misguide people into thinking the centrist neoliberal policies that trouble them are leftist policies.The far right then pretend to be rebels against capitalism, whilst in fact standing for an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism.

    Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time.

    The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."

    The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.

    Also, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles.
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    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Just to begin, the "deep state" was first coined and used by Peter Dale Scott, hardly 'far right':

    Peter Dale Scott
    (born 11 January 1929)[1] is a Canadian-born poet, academic, and former diplomat.

    A son of the Canadian poet and constitutional lawyer F. R. Scott and painter Marian Dale Scott, he is best known for his critiques of deep politics and American foreign policy since the era of the Vietnam War. Although trained as a political scientist, Scott holds an atypical academic appointment as a poet-scholar in an English department.
    After receiving undergraduate degrees in philosophy (first-class honours) and political science (second-class honours) from McGill University in 1949, he studied at the Institut d'Etudes Politiques (France, 1949) and University College, Oxford (1950-1952) before receiving a Ph.D. in political science from McGill (with a dissertation on the social and political philosophy of T.S. Eliot) in 1955. He briefly taught in McGill's political science department and spent four years (1957–1961) with the Canadian diplomatic service before joining the speech department of the University of California, Berkeley as a lecturer in 1961. He was subsequently promoted to assistant professor of speech (1962), associate professor of English (1968), and professor of English (1980); since his nominal retirement in 1994, he has served as professor emeritus of English.[2][3]
    Notably, he was a signatory in 1968 of the "Writers and Editors War Tax Protest" pledge, in which participants vowed to refuse tax payments in protest against the Vietnam War.[4]

    He has written a book on the topic:
    https://www.amazon.com/American-Deep-State-Democracy-Library/dp/1442214244

    To not recognize that the deep state exists is not to be invulnerable to it, on the contrary.

    RE: "
    Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time."

    AI Algorithms have not been around for a long time, so... huh?

    Also wondering: ..."
    fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers"

    WHO are these, exactly?

    And just who might Jason Hine be? A search does not reveal anyone conclusive.


    I would imagine we might have more conclusions in common than it seems here; if so, clearly need to weed through much to get there.


    Quote Larry Robinson wrote: View Post
    Dear spiritual friends,

    A few important talking points by Jason Hine:

    Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for.

    An effective way to defeat one's opponent is to get them to chase after imaginary enemies in order to weaken them, confuse them, control them and cover up one's really existing nefarious behaviour.


    Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time.

    The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."

    The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.

    Also, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles.
    Last edited by Jude Iam; 07-26-2020 at 09:44 PM.
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  15. TopTop #8
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Quote Larry Robinson wrote: View Post
    Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for.

    An effective way to defeat one's opponent is to get them to chase after imaginary enemies in order to weaken them, confuse them, control them and cover up one's really existing nefarious behaviour.

    Jason Hine is quite mistaken about the etiology of the term, "Deep State", Larry. Although, since 2016 the term has been co-opted by the "right" - most notably by Jerome Corsi, who has gotten a lot of exposure & airtime on "Coast-to-Coast" & other Bircher type "Right-wing CIA" disinformation fronts. It has become, of course, a stock phrase in the "Q"-Cult - those naive red state followers of Donald Trump who mistakenly believe that he is valiantly fighting the good fight.


    From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott on VoltaireNet:

    VoltaireNet: Professor Scott, as your work is not as widely known as it ought to be in French-speaking countries, could you please start by defining what “Deep politics” is, and explain the distinction between what you call the “Deep state” and the “Public state”?

    Peter Dale Scott: The term “Deep state” comes from Turkey. They invented it after the wreck of a speeding Mercedes in 1996 in which the passengers were a Member of Parliament, a beauty queen, a local senior police captain, and an important drug trafficker in Turkey who was also the head of a criminal paramilitary organization – the Grey Wolves – that went around killing people. And it became very obvious in Turkey that there were a covert relationship between the police who officially were looking for this man – even though a policeman was there with him in the car – and these people who committed crimes on behalf of the state. The state that you commit crimes for is not a state that can show its hand to the people, it’s a hidden state, a covert structure. In Turkey, they called it the Deep state, [1] and I had been talking about deep politics for a long time so I used the term in The Road to 9/11. This is why I have defined deep politics as all those political practices and arrangements, deliberate or not, which are usually repressed rather than acknowledged. So the term “Deep state” – coming from Turkey – is not mine.

    It refers to a parallel secret government, organized by the intelligence and security apparatus, financed by drugs, and engaging in illicit violence, to protect the status and interests of the military against threats from intellectuals, religious groups, and occasionally the constitutional government. In this book, I adapt the term somewhat to refer to the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government. You might call it the back door of the Public state, giving access to dark forces outside the law. The analogy with Turkey is not perfect, because what we see today in America is less a parallel structure than a wide zone or milieu of interaction between the public state and unseen dark forces, as I expound in my latest book The American War Machine. But this interaction is significant, and we need a name, such as Deep state, to describe it."

    [ CONTINUES... ]

    I tried to get Peter Dale Scott to do a book reading of the second, revised edition of this book at Copperfield's in Sebastopol last year, but unfortunately, was not able to pull that off. I am certain that several of our west county intellectuals could have derived benefit from his lecture, since in the revised edition of the book, he dealt with the recent phenomenon of how the term "Deep State" has been co-opted... Here is the book:

    The American Deep State: Big Money, Big Oil, and the Struggle for U.S. Democracy (War and Peace Library) Updated Edition

    Here is his website :
    https://www.peterdalescott.net/
    Here is his facebook page.

    You may be sure that Peter Dale Scott is not a "right-winger."


    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-02-2020 at 04:03 AM.
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  16. TopTop #9
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Quote Jason Hine wrote: View Post
    The overton window has shifted to the right over the last thirty years or so, so folks mistake centrists for leftists and the far right for the moderate right. Of course the far right's strategy has been to encourage and capitalise on that shift in the overton window.
    "Jason Hine" sure got that right. The "overton window" has moved...

    Still, I question the geometry of the conventional model of the so-called "political spectrum" that commonly & colloquially employs the stock terms "left" & right." Something else is going on. We dwell after all, in a Reality in which there are more than four dimensions. A line-segment is only a one-dimensional geometric figure. I have tried to address this anomaly in another thread on WaccoBB. And this is (a portion of) what I just wrote over there:






    ...The "Political Spectrum" is, in Reality, shaped more like
    a Mobius Strip; a Pretzel - or the bloody Roller Coaster at Coney Island - than the common misconception of the damned thing as a line-segment. And Everyone should be seriously aware that the opinions that are posted as 'facts' at disinformation sites like "Snopes" & "Media Bias / Fact Check" come straight down the Elevator Shaft from ye olde 39th Floor of the Rockefeller Center. They don't call it "The Center" for nothing, you know...




    [ Image taken from “Media Bias / Fact Check” ]

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-fake-news-codex/

    I suggest to y'all that when Jason Hine speaks of "the far right" that he has no idea of what he is talking about. Because the "far right" are not the Power Elite or the "One Percent" [ 1% ]. Not at all. The Power Elite are "Centrists" - from the Center that is Above the whole shooting match {see pic.}

    The so-called "far right" are trailer park eedjit white folks who read disinformation about the ruling class - and just about everything else - disinformation that is churned out by the disinformation channels that are coordinated from the Think Tanks {see pic} of the Rockefeller "Center", the Puzzle Palace, and Langley, Virginia. Get a Clue, kids.

    But the Power Elite are certainly not authentic old-school American Liberals. They are so far beyond Ideology that they have financed Bolshevism, Nazism, and the soft Fascism of the "New Deal." The only Ideology that they consistently adhere to is their insatiable Quest for more power and more profits.

    From the Center that is above the Demo / Repub ground floor Center, the Power Elite control the dialectic and play off the so-called "Left" against the so-called "Right". This they do continually, and on a whole lot of levels. It is called "Divide & Rule" - the Old Roman Axiom that you've all heard about. The reason why I employed the symbol of the "All-Seeing Eye" to depict the summit of power is because it is a Symbol 1* that they themselves
    are fond of. 2 *


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    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-09-2020 at 02:21 AM.
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    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
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    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    Larry Robinson, Poet Laureate of WaccoBb, Greetings

    I have been posting on this thread - the one that you started. Care to comment on anything that I have written here thus far? Just wondering... If not, I shall continue to make further commentary on the material that you have already placed here before us. There is a lot of material here already - and it is a big field.

    =ALSO =

    Judith Iam made some legitimate points, and asked you some serious questions, which i think you really ought to *answer - that is, if you are seriously interested in conversing with us darkies down here in the Ninth Ward. To wit:


    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post


    To not recognize that the deep state exists is not to be invulnerable to it, on the contrary.

    RE: "Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time."

    AI Algorithms have not been around for a long time, so... huh?

    Also wondering: ..."fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity
    as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers"

    WHO are these, exactly?

    And just who might "Jason Hine" be ? A search does not reveal anyone conclusive.

    I would imagine we might have more conclusions in common than
    it seems here; if so, clearly need to weed through much to get there.

    So Who is this "Jason Hine", Larry ? Care to share a link with us ?


    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-02-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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  19. TopTop #11
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness




    Well. So far, Larry Robinson, wordsmith, poet, has not seen fit to dabble in a little prose and respond to my request that we dialog about these "taking points" that he has set before us - or let us know who the illustrious "Jason Hine" might Be. No matter.

    I shall continue with my dissection of all of the ontological and philological errors in this tidy little missive that Larry has attributed to Jason Hine, since it is what is currently on the plate. And, after I am done with Jason, I shall return to my critique of the errors in the missive of the more verifiable Stephen Dinan.

    In the first place, I find it fascinating that Jason -whoever he may be- uses the phrase "the imaginary "deep state"' two times in a missive that is only four hundred and ninety-two (492) words long.

    "Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for."

    "The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."

    I wish to return to this point, because as Jude Iam and I have both noted already, the political scientist who first began the use of the term, "deep state" in the United States and applied it to Amerikan politics, was Peter Dale Scott of Berkeley, with whom I am 'facebook friends'. My late uncle, Walter Liggett (
    née William Wallace Liggett), "Haiku Master of Berkeley" was an actual friend of his, as was my late friend Brad Cleveland, who also lived at Redwood Gardens at the head of Derby Street, not far from the Claremont Hotel, in the neighborhood of Peter Dale Scott.

    Here follows a segment of an interview of Peter Dale Scott in Tikkun Magazine in July of 2017 in which he deals with the issue of the "deep state" in the present - after the use of the term had been co-opted by Breitbart, Steve Bannon, and the people around Donald Trump:

    ***

    Tikkun: Please tell our readers more about the deep state.

    PETER
    : Well, let’s start with three Beltway agencies that are principal in it: the NSA who probably overheard all the conversations that are at stake here, the CIA which has got a long history of manipulating press leaks, and the FBI who are in charge of the Russiagate investigation. But I want to think on a larger level. I already mentioned that the media play a role in the deep state. What I’m now calling the “deep state media” includes the New York Times, the Washington Post and close behind them the LA Times and The Wall Street Journal. I’ve defined the deep state as “the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government.” In other words, the deep state is the sum of all the forces who are not authorized by the Constitution to exercise political power, and therefore are in the role of playing a significant but unauthorized political role, often in secret.


    Tikkun
    : In your understanding, is the Pentagon part of your definition of the deep state or or not?


    PETER
    : The Pentagon is not an independent player in the way it was under JFK and JBJ. In those days, backed by a powerful military-industrial complex, the Joint Chiefs resented and frequently challenged White House limitations on their actions. Today what the Pentagon does in a regular way has been brought more under civilian control.
    But the military component of the U.S. economy and budget has grown and the old civilian component has withered. An increasing role is now played by hi-tech industries which are harder to define on this spectrum. This has created a new militarized economy in which hawks are found everywhere.

    I argue in The American Deep State that 9/11 empowered Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their lobby PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) to implement their expansionist policies into Afghanistan and Iraq, with a momentum that Clinton and the Dems have since sustained in Libya and Syria.
    But the Pentagon didn’t provide the impetus here; in fact Rumsfeld and Cheney had to clear out of the way a reluctant General Shelton, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Pressure was coming more from the oil industry (including Cheney’s old company Halliburton) who had their eyes set on creating a US military presence to overshadow and protect U.S. oil developments in Central Asia.

    Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in turn promoted a lot of hawkish generals like Petraeus who pressured a reluctant Obama for the meaningless Afghanistan surge. And then in turn, Generals Mattis and Flynn, two of the hawk generals Obama had disagreements with and let go (they had wanted more U.S. military pressure on Iran) , were picked up by Trump. So hawks and doves have been switching sides on the Pentagon/White House seesaw..
    Meanwhile the Pentagon expansionist hawks have been making use of a Pentagon element called JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command, for dirty CIA-like covert operations in other countries,

    Tikkun
    : Is there a set of interests that this deep state has that runs in a different direction than what our elected officials want.


    PETER
    : Yes, but I want to say more clearly than I did in the first edition of my book, The American Deep State, that there are competing elements in the deep state. I’m not saying that there’s some s kind of secret team that in charge of everything, As I say in my book, the deep state “is not a structure but a system, as difficult to define, but also as real and powerful, as a weather system.” A vigorous deep state, like America’s, encompasses dynamic processes continuously generating new forces within it like the Internet — just as a weather system is not fixed but changes from day to day.


    Tikkun
    : Are our major corporations part of what you are calling the deep state?


    PETER
    : Well some corporations are, yes. The big oil companies are even in the subtitle of my book (Big Oil), because they conduct their own foreign policy. This fact is almost never written up, so you have to go to very specialized sources to find out what’s going on. But they have a very intimate relation with the CIA, often via the CIA’s “cleared contractor” firms like Booz Allen Hamilton.
    And you can’t mention these corporations without mentioning the financial interests involved in them. It was relatively simple back in the ‘50s, when the Rockefellers were Big Oil, and they also controlled the Chase Manhattan Bank and the Council on Foreign Relations; and these interests all had a very close connection with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. And Solomon and Cromwell partners John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles were Secretary of State and head of CIA….

    The easiest way to see what’s happening now is to remember how much clearer the deep state was back in the 50s.
    The concept of a deep state is vital, and even the people who are using the term don’t understand how really relevant the deep state is in this, because of what is being left out. The debate is being carried on in the big media as if the media were not part of the deep state, but they are. And what’s being left out altogether is the role of billionaires, and believe me that is very relevant here. The media are talking about Beltway agencies and too many people are only talking about them. Why aren’t more people talking about Robert Mercer or the Koch brothers or Karl Icahn? These men have been restructuring US politics, because they all have a stake in shrinking the government and getting rid of regulations. And this squabble is fine for them. No matter who wins between Trump and the Beltway agencies, the billionaires are likely to come out even more powerful and unregulated.

    Tikkun
    : But it does matter which side wins. The Trump Administration has been systematically going forward in its goal of dramatically shrinking government while most of the forces that you’ve identified as “the deep state” oppose this direction. And that shrinking will hit the poor and middle income Americans hardest. That is morally outrageous.


    PETER
    : We have to recognize there are two factions of the billionaires. You also have the people like Bill Gates the head of Microsoft (the richest of all) who are in favor of regulation and whose businesses do better in a well-regulated society.


    Tikkun
    : That’s why it’s difficult to say that “the deep state is a useful category when it turns out that deep state is on both sides of this issue.


    PETER
    : Well the deep state isn’t a way of solving a mystery. The deep state is a way of keeping our minds enlarged to think of the big picture here. And now there is a great deal of money involved in politics on both sides, a lot of it from super-billionaires making a political investment for profit. They dominate as never before: by 2007 the top one percent in America owned 35 percent of America’s total wealth.
    This means that traditional politics have changed. The money used to be channeled through the political parties; but now both of them have significantly lost influence because their funding is no longer so dominant.

    The Republican Party in particular has lost control over its primaries because they are being outbid by people like the Koch brothers and Robert Mercer who detest the party establishment.
    The fund controlled by the Koch brothers announced in 2015 that it would spend $889 million leading up to the 2016 campaign — more than double the nearly $400 million the Republican National Committee spent on the 2012 election. And Mercer in particular, whose firm was once investigated for tax evasion, gave over $22 million to right-wing candidates and PACs in the last campaign Mercer was also backing Bannon and Breitbart. These billionaires are restructuring the way in which politics is played. It’s almost as if they have rebuilt a new stage for American politics, on which Trump and the quote deep state that they talk about in the papers are just actors.


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  20. TopTop #12
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    A Short Summary of what Peter Dale Scott
    Said
    about the "Deep State" in Interviews


    From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott on VoltaireNet:

    VoltaireNet: Professor Scott, as your work is not as widely known as it ought to be in French-speaking countries, could you please start by defining what “Deep politics” is, and explain the distinction between what you call the “Deep state” and the “Public state”?

    Peter Dale Scott: The term “Deep state” comes from Turkey. They invented it after the wreck of a speeding Mercedes in 1996 in which the passengers were a Member of Parliament, a beauty queen, a local senior police captain, and an important drug trafficker in Turkey who was also the head of a criminal paramilitary organization – the Grey Wolves – that went around killing people. And it became very obvious in Turkey that there were a covert relationship between the police who officially were looking for this man – even though a policeman was there with him in the car – and these people who committed crimes on behalf of the state. The state that you commit crimes for is not a state that can show its hand to the people, it’s a hidden state, a covert structure. In Turkey, they called it the Deep state, [1] and I had been talking about deep politics for a long time so I used the term in The Road to 9/11. This is why I have defined deep politics as all those political practices and arrangements, deliberate or not, which are usually repressed rather than acknowledged. So the term “Deep state” – coming from Turkey – is not mine.

    It refers to a parallel secret government, organized by the intelligence and security apparatus, financed by drugs, and engaging in illicit violence, to protect the status and interests of the military against threats from intellectuals, religious groups, and occasionally the constitutional government. In this book, I adapt the term somewhat to refer to the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government. You might call it the back door of the Public state, giving access to dark forces outside the law. The analogy with Turkey is not perfect, because what we see today in America is less a parallel structure than a wide zone or milieu of interaction between the public state and unseen dark forces, as I expound in my latest book The American War Machine. But this interaction is significant, and we need a name, such as Deep state, to describe it."

    [ CONTINUES... ]

    *******

    From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott in Tikkun Magazine in July of 2017


    Tikkun: Please tell our readers more about the deep state.

    PETER
    : Well, let’s start with three Beltway agencies that are principal in it: the NSA who probably overheard all the conversations that are at stake here, the CIA which has got a long history of manipulating press leaks, and the FBI who are in charge of the Russiagate investigation. But I want to think on a larger level. I already mentioned that the media play a role in the deep state. What I’m now calling the “deep state media” includes the New York Times, the Washington Post and close behind them the LA Times and The Wall Street Journal.
    I’ve defined the deep state as “the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government.” In other words, the deep state is the sum of all the forces who are not authorized by the Constitution to exercise political power, and therefore are in the role of playing a significant but unauthorized political role, often in secret.

    Tikkun
    : In your understanding, is the Pentagon part of your definition of the deep state or or not?


    PETER
    : The Pentagon is not an independent player in the way it was under JFK and JBJ. In those days, backed by a powerful military-industrial complex, the Joint Chiefs resented and frequently challenged White House limitations on their actions. Today what the Pentagon does in a regular way has been brought more under civilian control.
    But the military component of the U.S. economy and budget has grown and the old civilian component has withered. An increasing role is now played by hi-tech industries which are harder to define on this spectrum. This has created a new militarized economy in which hawks are found everywhere.

    I argue in The American Deep State that 9/11 empowered Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their lobby PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) to implement their expansionist policies into Afghanistan and Iraq, with a momentum that Clinton and the Dems have since sustained in Libya and Syria.
    But the Pentagon didn’t provide the impetus here; in fact Rumsfeld and Cheney had to clear out of the way a reluctant General Shelton, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Pressure was coming more from the oil industry (including Cheney’s old company Halliburton) who had their eyes set on creating a US military presence to overshadow and protect U.S. oil developments in Central Asia.

    Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in turn promoted a lot of hawkish generals like Petraeus who pressured a reluctant Obama for the meaningless Afghanistan surge. And then in turn, Generals Mattis and Flynn, two of the hawk generals Obama had disagreements with and let go (they had wanted more U.S. military pressure on Iran) , were picked up by Trump. So hawks and doves have been switching sides on the Pentagon/White House seesaw..
    Meanwhile the Pentagon expansionist hawks have been making use of a Pentagon element called JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command, for dirty CIA-like covert operations in other countries,

    Tikkun
    : Is there a set of interests that this deep state has that runs in a different direction than what our elected officials want.


    PETER
    : Yes, but I want to say more clearly than I did in the first edition of my book, The American Deep State, that there are competing elements in the deep state. I’m not saying that there’s some s kind of secret team that in charge of everything, As I say in my book, the deep state “is not a structure but a system, as difficult to define, but also as real and powerful, as a weather system.” A vigorous deep state, like America’s, encompasses dynamic processes continuously generating new forces within it like the Internet — just as a weather system is not fixed but changes from day to day.


    Tikkun
    : Are our major corporations part of what you are calling the
    deep state?

    PETER
    : Well some corporations are, yes. The big oil companies are even in the subtitle of my book (Big Oil), because they conduct their own foreign policy. This fact is almost never written up, so you have to go to very specialized sources to find out what’s going on. But they have a very intimate relation with the CIA, often via the CIA’s “cleared contractor” firms like Booz Allen Hamilton.
    And you can’t mention these corporations without mentioning the financial interests involved in them. It was relatively simple back in the ‘50s, when the Rockefellers were Big Oil, and they also controlled the Chase Manhattan Bank and the Council on Foreign Relations; and these interests all had a very close connection with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. And Solomon and Cromwell partners John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles were Secretary of State and head of CIA….

    The easiest way to see what’s happening now is to remember how much clearer the deep state was back in the 50s.
    The concept of a deep state is vital, and even the people who are using the term don’t understand how really relevant the deep state is in this, because of what is being left out. The debate is being carried on in the big media as if the media were not part of the deep state, but they are. And what’s being left out altogether is the role of billionaires, and believe me that is very relevant here. The media are talking about Beltway agencies and too many people are only talking about them. Why aren’t more people talking about Robert Mercer or the Koch brothers or Karl Icahn? These men have been restructuring US politics, because they all have a stake in shrinking the government and getting rid of regulations. And this squabble is fine for them. No matter who wins between Trump and the Beltway agencies, the billionaires are likely to come out even more powerful and unregulated...

    [ CONTINUES... ]
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  21. TopTop #13
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness



    "Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for..."

    Stepping back one square to the first clause, "Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon," I'd like to address the issue of "Qanon". I have already stated my own position on the Cult of "Q" in this forum, last year, on another thread. As I wrote there:

    "I don't follow leaders and I have an eye & a nose for psy-ops - and this is one - perhaps the most sophisticated psychological operation that ever came down the pike. That is my opinion."

    In other words, the Q-Cult is a "Psychological Operation" - a disinformation channel that originated in the bowels of the National Security Agency, the "puzzle palace" in Maryland. There is epistemological evidence of this in their own documents. To wit:

    FOLLOW "Q"

    The good people of America, Left and Right, Democrat and Republican, White or of color, young and old, are witnessing the take-back of America from a large number of very powerful criminals who have been destroying society and the world for several decades, maybe longer. This is the greatest story of our time.

    You have the choice of either scratching your head in confusion when seeing events unfold, or looking at the information provided by Q to understand the real story. These are people I trust to bring you the right information.

    There are many others you can find too. Don't be a sheep. They want you divided. They have been working to divide us forever. It's time to wake up and experience true freedom instead of the fake kind we have been living under.

    The good guys, with control over the NSA, began the Q intelligence dissemination program to invoke an online grassroots movement that came to be called "The Great Awakening". It started on underground internet channels, then moved to the mainstream.


    [ Source ]


    That being said, I must re-iterate a fact concerning the terrain of "deep politics" : No political party -or- political position with any visible seat & presence on the so-called "political spectrum" can hold positions or dialectical doctrines that are completely false or "fictional"

    "Disinformation" just doesn't work that way. =And= In order for "disinformation"that originates in the bowels of the N.S.A. to have any traction among the masses in the Red states, that disinformation must, of necessity, contain a high percentage of that which is real & true. The "true facts" {"factoids" was a word that the late Anita Hoffman favored } in the mix are the bait for the rat-poison & erratic disinformation.

    I think the real danger in the thinking that is promoted
    here by Jason Hines is the chauvinistic assurance to his targeted audience that they alone are politically correct and that the enemy - designated as the so-called "far right" - are 100% deluded, with no basis in reality for any of their doctrines or beliefs. This negation - which is part & parcel of the novel phenomenon of "cancel culture" - leads to serious gaps in the Comprehension of those that follow suit...

    The Bottom Line Is: It's All About Divide & Rule

    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-09-2020 at 07:51 PM.
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  22. TopTop #14
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    =
    *F*u*r*t*h*e*r*m*o*r*e *=





    As I wrote, in a tiny left-wing bi-monthly produced out in Occidental back in the 1990’s:

    “…the Power Elite in America have set up tax-exempt foundations to facilitate the coordination of Left / Right activities, in order to implement the greater dialectical (or thesetical) process and move history in the direction.. [favored by] …the corporate interests of the ruling class.

    The tax-exempt foundations dispense their ill-gotten capitalist largesse (much of which derives from interest collected from the national debt, as well as currency speculation, and various other surplus-value scams) all along the political spectrum - to left, right and center, as well as to the foggy bottom of the political underworld, the "fringes" of Left and Right.

    Although the power elite transcend the political spectrum and are seldom visible in the political arena… their fingerprints are all over the whole thing, and their bag-men and liaisons are in almost every camp of any size.

    Beneath the tax-exempt foundations, …think tanks… target various segments of the political spectrum and serve as transmission-belts for implementing policy directives.

    These think tanks formulate the unique language (dialectics) tailored to suit and influence the thinking of the various targeted strata across the political spectrum… Various sectors of the Spectrum are apportioned various Analyses, each of which contains a core element of historical truth, (lending it a certain validity) as well as current Ideological & Economically derived applications.

    These various Ideologies all contain elements that are seemingly antithetical to the "hands" held by other players. In the dialectical (thesetical) process, the [power elite] via the Foundations, set the various political formations in conflict, each holding a thesis or antithesis originating in the various think tanks.

    In turn, the Syntheses that are hammered out by means of this process of orchestrated dialectical conflict, become, in turn, a new thesis, or antithesis, and thus the historical process is "shepherded" by the ruling class elite.

    It is this constant enmity or political strife within the spectrum, which gives the whole thing its incredible dynamism, its electric drive. It is what makes the Mobius = Continuum turn. The various "stations" along the spectrum, are like seats on a Merry-go-Round: segregated, isolated, and locked into specific "party-spirit" consciousness.

    Although this Dialectical Merry-go-round may be said to spin, in reality, the Geometry of the spectrum cannot be a circle. Rather, it is more on the order of a Mobius strip. It is not a circle, because it is twisted; possessing an intrinsic twistedness…”
    [ Source (on Archive.org) ]

    In retrospect, I think that the Mobius-Continuum Model of the Political Spectrum can best be likened to the Roller Coaster at Coney Island; loop de loop & all. It is a diversion - and, like Monday Night Football, it is merely 'bread & circuses' for the masses.



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  23. TopTop #15
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness


    Larry Robinson, Poet Laureate,

    Once Again, Greetings

    You have set this missive before us as your "talking points" -And I see that you have received a lot of gratitude for it. Yet so far, you have refrained from 'talking' with me about them. So I ask you, if you could render a Yea or a Nay on a few points...

    A. **When you prefaced your post with the dedication "Dear spiritual friends" were you subtly implying that there was a wolf at the door ?
    ( i.e., myself )

    B. **Do you seriously think that the plutocrats who are the members of the World Economic Forum are only "imaginary enemies" to the working (& middle) classes ?

    C. **Do you believe that this one, ( i ) am part of an "
    extensive recruitment and disinformation campaign" myself? *=OR= That my own particular purpose is "to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism*towards fascism." ?

    D.
    ** =OR perhaps, You think that this one ( i ) am a covert agent from "the far right" who 'pretends to be [a] rebel against capitalism' whilst in fact [this one ( i )] stand for "an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism." ? Is that what you truly believe, Larry Robinson? You may answer Yea or Nay.

    E.
    **"The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West..." Do you truly believe that that sentence describes me, or my purpose in posting at WaccoBB ?

    F.
    **Are you willing to see the psychological manipulation inherent in the phrase "... a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state." ? -Do you not see that this construct implies the casual acceptance of it's negation, by the author of the sentence ?? [: i.e. by subliminal implication, George Soros and Globalism are good, & the "deep state" as Jason Hines has averred -twice- is "imaginary" ?...

    I have already established - at least I hope so - the reality of the so-called "
    deep state"


    G. ** Is George Soros really such a beneficent, benevolent, innocent & jolly benefactor of the so-called [current,& kept] "left"?

    H. ** Is "Globalism" really such a wonderful programme for our collective future?

    I. ** Do you truly believe that my own personal
    "purpose" is to "divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe" ?

    J. **Furthermore, Larry, Do you truly believe that it is my own personal agenda to "
    forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism." ? Again, you may either answer Yes or No.

    K. *=OR= Perhaps you think that I, personally, am trying to "
    actively rebrand [myself] as [a] spiritual teacher or "new paradigm influencer." Is that it, Larry?


    Quote Larry Robinson wrote: View Post
    Dear spiritual friends,

    A few important talking points by Jason Hine:

    Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for.

    Spiritual people are particularly susceptible to this because they are perceived as high on empathy and low on boundaries and therefore seen as easy to turn or manipulate.

    An effective way to defeat one's opponent is to get them to chase after imaginary enemies in order to weaken them, confuse them, control them and cover up one's really existing nefarious behaviour.

    It's an old strategy: Machiavelli and Sun Tzu describe it, its used by abusers everywhere to get their victims to trauma bond with them, and some intelligence agencies round the world are trained in such techniques.

    The overton window has shifted to the right over the last thirty years or so, so folks mistake centrists for leftists and the far right for the moderate right. Of course the far right's strategy has been to encourage and capitalise on that shift in the overton window.

    People who are disenchanted with the political center, disenchanted with "identity politics" and disenchanted with capitalism or neoliberalism would in the past have gravitated to the moderate left, far left or center right, but these days the far right have extensive recruitment and disinformation campaigns to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism towards fascism.

    Part of the fascist strategy is to misguide people into thinking the centrist neoliberal policies that trouble them are leftist policies. The far right then pretend to be rebels against capitalism, whilst in fact standing for an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism.

    Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time.

    The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."

    The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.

    Also, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles.
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-13-2020 at 06:56 PM.
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  24. TopTop #16
    applefan's Avatar
    applefan
     

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Hey Barry. is it your plan to allow all this paranoid stuff to take up so much room on WACCO? Also personal attacks on Larry Robinson?
    Last edited by Barry; Today at 12:07 PM.
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  25. TopTop #17
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Paula:

    1. this is a bulletin board, a place for public discussion
    2. calling detailed historically accurate material "paranoid stuff" does not address it nor dismiss it
    3. you are suggesting censorship of views contesting the mainstream narrative - book burning du jour
    4. while this material has been challenged and repeated requests made for clarification as to the source, etc.
    5. Larry has chosen to not respond - and not been maligned in the slightest. "personal attacks"? no, not.
    Quote applefan wrote: View Post
    Hey Barry. is it your plan to allow all this paranoid stuff to take up so much room on WACCO? Also personal attacks on Larry Robinson?
    Last edited by Barry; Today at 12:19 PM.
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  26. TopTop #18
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness

    Quote applefan wrote: View Post
    Hey Barry. is it your plan to allow all this paranoid stuff to take up so much room on WACCO? Also personal attacks on Larry Robinson?
    I've done what I can to segregate the "paranoid stuff" into this category (slyly named Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories) so people can easily turn it off and remove it from their digest or emails. See how here.

    I didn't notice "personal attacks" on Larry Robinson, though I can't say I read every word of Mayacaman/Mark's posts. Please reply privately or publicly to point out what I may have missed.

    I would welcome Larry's comments about Mark's posts, either generally or categorically.

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