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  1. TopTop #1
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    45% of Sebastopol's budget is dedicated to police services according to the Sonoma West Times and News article from 6/26/19. In comparison, the City of Santa Rosa spends 32% of its budget on police services. Makes you wonder whether Sebastopol prioritizes law enforcement too much and if some of that money couldn't be better invested other places like community services, fighting fire, housing etc? Also, is Sebastopol deciding on its next budget about now? Attaching an image of a pie chart of the Sebastopol budget from the article.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-08-2020 at 09:44 AM.
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  3. TopTop #2
    Imagery's Avatar
    Imagery
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    45% of Sebastopol's budget is dedicated to police services...
    Perhaps it would help to break down the figures instead of accepting the hyperbole and sensationalistic headlines without question. Sebastopol: Population (2018): 7,768 Budget (2019): 9.55 Million. This means that 9.55 Million x .45 (45%) = $4,297,500, which breaks down to: $553.23 per person for a year of police services.
    Compare that with Santa Rosa: Population (2019): 164,405 Budget (2019): 1.78 Billion. This means that 1.78 Billion x .32 (32%) = $569,600,000, which breaks down to: $3,464.61 per person for a year of police services.

    It appears to me that yet again, the community places no value on essential services, and only want to assist the less fortunate as long as they don't have to pay anything for it.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-08-2020 at 09:44 AM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Carnacchi to the Sebastopol City Council

    Dear Agenda Review Committee Members,

    Due to the overflowing amount of public sentiment sent to us via email and by other means, please receive this email as my official request to place the subject of Sebastopol Police Use of Force Policy on the nearest available City Council meeting agenda.

    During this meeting, the following proposed steps can be discussed and/or adopted.

    1) Review Sebastopol police use of force policies.

    2) Engage our community by including a diverse range of input and experiences in our review.

    3) Report the findings of our review to our community and seek feedback.

    4) Revise and reform (where necessary) Sebastopol police use of force policies.

    Personally, I am very confident that the Sebastopol Police already do a great job. As citizens, we all share in common a desire to improve ourselves. If the current climate is the catalyst for that to happen, then we are better for it.

    I feel that it is our duty as elected officials to, in the very least, enact the first step of moving this to an agenda.

    Thank You. Take good care,

    Michael {Carnacchi
    Sebastopol City Council Member}

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  7. TopTop #4
    Dogenzip's Avatar
    Dogenzip
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    It may be worthwhile to find out the ratio of police/population compared to other Sonoma County cities.
    My bet is that it is higher. Why we have a whopping 45% of the Sebastopol city budget allocated to police cannot be justified given our relatively low crime rate and our demographics characterized by a relatively high proportion of (white) senior citizens. And the City has no Police Commission with citizen representation.

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    45% of Sebastopol's budget is dedicated to police services according to the Sonoma West Times and News article from 6/26/19. In comparison, the City of Santa Rosa spends 32% of its budget on police services. Makes you wonder whether Sebastopol prioritizes law enforcement too much and if some of that money couldn't be better invested other places like community services, fighting fire, housing etc? ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-09-2020 at 11:06 AM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Framing this issue as 'defunding police services' was a really bad idea. It gets some people really excited in a good way, others in a bad way. It does seem like "it" is going to happen, though, because it's not just a slogan, it's building off a lot of work from a variety of groups over the past few years. I'm far from being well versed on the issue, but my understanding is the key concept that makes this realistic is that police are given roles and tasks that aren't really "policing" in the public-safety sense. They've become the go-to for a grab bag of services. Reorganizing so that murder investigations, drug raids, finding missing persons, and responding to traffic incidents aren't all under the same umbrella makes sense.
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  11. TopTop #6
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    It's well known that Sebastopol has an uber Police force. You're more likely to get stopped by Police in the Town of Sebastopol, than other nearby places such as Occidental, or Forestville. They're really hyper on speeders. It's been this way for many years. I got two speeding tickets in Sebastopol some years ago. They lay in wait for you on Petaluma Ave, or coming out of Hopmunk parking lot in the evening. Perhaps it's because Sebastopol has their own Police force, while Occidental and Forestville do not. I assumed they gave out alot of tickets, to raise revenue. It seems out of character for Sebastopol to have so many Police... after all, this is Peacetown, this no nuclear organic tree hugging mellow place next to the Pacific.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-09-2020 at 11:09 AM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    LivingTheDream
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Iíve lived in Sebastopol since 2004, have seen and heard a lot of complaints about the Sebastopol Police Depts attitude and verbal insults towards anyone not in uniform. Personally I feel they are pompous competitive within their pack and have extreme entitlement issues. Iím not here to complain about police though We all can all agree to disagree. I just know I donít call them for help, if ever.
    Crime is so low in west Sonoma county. we are safe even without a police force (prejudice or qualified to differentiate threat or a disabled person).
    Compassion and Empathy are necessary for any community to unite and trust and live in harmony.
    Stay safe!
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  15. TopTop #8

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    I'd like to quote your statistics re: Santa Rosa compared to Sebastopol.

    In order for me to feel comfortable / ethical about that, I'd appreciate being provided with the sources of your Santa Rosa info.

    Thanks!
    Quote Imagery wrote: View Post
    ...Compare that with Santa Rosa: Population (2019): 164,405 Budget (2019): 1.78 Billion. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-09-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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  17. TopTop #9
    rossmen
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Comparing Rosa to sebtown is meaningless. To get a true statistical picture compare sebastopol with other sonoma county cites of similar size, cloverdale, healdsburg, cotati, sonoma. And widen your search to napa county, like calistoga. Last time I did this, like twelve years ago, I told chief hen weaver and the council they could save 1 mill by defunding and paying the sherrif dept. Boy did weaver cluck. Now the spd is in total disarray and has been since the chief hen left. The department has lost most volunteers and reserve officers, ie newly trained and looking for experience at Mayberry rfd. The infighting has gotten really bad and cruelty has gone up.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-09-2020 at 11:13 AM.
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  19. TopTop #10
    luke32
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    I have only lived here for 20 years but have not heard bad remarks about Sebastopol police.

    Why have people waited for so long to talk about "verbal insults towards anyone not in uniform. Personally I feel they are pompous competitive within their pack and have extreme entitlement issues."? And they catch speeders - good.

    I believe Carnacchi hit it right when he said they already do a great job

    And where did this "Peacetown" moniker come from? What is its significance?

    And, finally, when a town has a relatively small budget, core services such as police are bound to take up a larger percentage.

    Be cool.

    Quote LivingTheDream wrote: View Post
    Iíve lived in Sebastopol since 2004, have seen and heard a lot of complaints about the Sebastopol Police Depts attitude and verbal insults towards anyone not in uniform. Personally I feel they are pompous competitive within their pack and have extreme entitlement issues..
    Last edited by Barry; 06-10-2020 at 01:55 PM.
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  20. TopTop #11
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KFCD0qtxBQ

    Opening with the history of police beginning as slave catchers, this 20 year activist has numerous workable solutions to policing communities. Useful ideas to replace and IMPROVE current system. Jude

    Last edited by Barry; 06-10-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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  21. TopTop #12
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services



    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    Framing this issue as 'defunding police services' was a really bad idea. It gets some people really excited in a good way, others in a bad way. It does seem like "it" is going to happen, though, because it's not just a slogan, it's building off a lot of work from a variety of groups over the past few years. I'm far from being well versed on the issue, but my understanding is the key concept that makes this realistic is that police are given roles and tasks that aren't really "policing" in the public-safety sense. They've become the go-to for a grab bag of services. Reorganizing so that murder investigations, drug raids, finding missing persons, and responding to traffic incidents aren't all under the same umbrella makes sense.
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  23. TopTop #13
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    #Defund the police DOES NOT mean eliminate all police funding
    I've had a modest change of view on whether or not this choice of wording was wise, as I see more of the history of its use but even more as I see the reactions to it. It's possible, maybe likely, that some cunning people deliberately chose those semantics.

    I'm a huge fan of George Lakoff's theories on how we use language, and how our thinking is impacted by the way something is framed. (thus, my own choice of language in my other post). But this phrase seems to be working on people on multiple levels. I think the shock of "really? they don't want any police?" is being used to draw attention to the idea, and people (well, not the deplorables..) do seem to be understanding that the idea is quite different. It seems to be working to engage people in the idea, instead of just treating it as another slogan that's lost in the noise.
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  25. TopTop #14
    rossmen
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    You have not heard bad remarks because?... My guess is you don't want to read them. Like on this bb. Or chosen to ride with them. Or talked to homeless on the plaza, did not participate in occupy, volunteered in the county jails, ect. Do you even read the sonoma times?

    Peacetown is another subject. What do you think the local cops think about it? Just ask.

    The basic problem with police reform is people like you. Society works for you, and since law enforcement is a foundational element of our society, you have no curiosity.

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    I have only lived here for 20 years but have not heard bad remarks about Sebastopol police.

    Why have people waited for so long to talk about "verbal insults towards anyone not in uniform. Personally I feel they are pompous competitive within their pack and have extreme entitlement issues."? And they catch speeders - good.

    I believe Carnacchi hit it right when he said they already do a great job

    And where did this "Peacetown" moniker come from? What is its significance?...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-11-2020 at 09:16 AM.
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  27. TopTop #15
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    I've lived in Sebastopol since 1974 and have had nothing but positive experience with the police here. They've been polite, considerate, and caring about the community. I haven't heard any bad remarks about the police until seeing the remark in this thread. Take a rest, see what you can see and do that is positive. We're very fortunate here in Sebastopol, including having the police department which we do.

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    I have only lived here for 20 years but have not heard bad remarks about Sebastopol police...
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  29. TopTop #16
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Does anyone else recall the two (at least) incidents in which people were killed after local cops were called to help?
    Both were mentally challenged folks, one the husband of a kind, articulate woman who posted here whose name escapes me just now. An accountant, I believe.

    Another murder by cop was the son of a great local activist called Marnie who moved away afterwards.

    The sheriffs much be included in all reforms - they are at least as brutal. And always defended by our DA, Jill Ravitch.

    All the work on behalf of Andy Lopez has resulted in very little except for media attention; formed as the community's police watch agency, IOLERO has no teeth and, to my knowledge, has led to no reform.
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  31. TopTop #17
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    I had similar thoughts, Jude. I remember the teenaged boy who was autistic or bipolar (I forget) whose parents called the police/sheriff when their son became unmanageable. Law enforcement cornered him in a van and shot him to death when he waved a pocket knife. There subsequently were a couple more similar incidents/results and a lot of hue and cry about the lack of mental health care facilities in the county.

    My impression generally has been that the sheriffs are much more prone to overreaction and violence than local police forces, but I could be wrong. Sheriffs seem to consider themselves above the law, as witness Essick's recent refusal to enforce the County order to wear face masks in public.(Yeah, yeah, I know masks are controversial on this forum but I'm referring to the principle of law enforcement oversight, not the mask issue in particular.)

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    Does anyone else recall the two (at least) incidents in which people were killed after local cops were called to help?...
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  33. TopTop #18
    LivingTheDream
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    As I mentioned We can all agree to disagree. And that is a beginning of compromise, unity, open-mindedness, understanding human nature and needs. A badge does not give a person the power to judge, insult, harass or intimidate anyone. It does give you the power to assess a volatile situation or a drunk persons ability to speak or drive and many many many other necessary laws and human rights. Comparing Seb. Police to sheriff or to any other police force is exactly what destroys a communities trust in law enforcement.

    People are wrongfully accused of all types of laws that the courts get to try to figure out how to fine tooth the police reports and make decisions from that. There are mentally challenged individuals in every part of all cities.

    Police are not PHD qualified to do both protect and serve and decide if ptsd or narcissistic personality disorder is why someone wonít speak to them. Canít expect police to be that educated or any one really. Two separate degrees and jobs. And I personally have family in justice dept. as well as forensic criminal psychiatry. Sonoma county is in need of some real honest to their career law officials.

    Most are shady.

    Point is be a role model for the society you are paid to look out for. Paid to not lie for one another to not look bad. You look bad when you devalue yourself by accusing or not defending victims or under educated in spite just so your posse in green. wonít think your too soft.

    Empathy and being humane.
    Keep Sebastopol United and we will believe in you and if you stand for us we will stand for you.
    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    I have only lived here for 20 years but have not heard bad remarks about Sebastopol police....
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  35. TopTop #19

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    My friend Branch Wroth is the son of my friends Marni and Chris Wroth.

    Last year the (3 or 4 of them) Rohnert Park Police Dept. were convicted of killing Branch, in much the same way that beloved gentle giant George Floyd was murdered.

    Branch was alone and no one else was watching.

    He was having a mental breakdown, was unarmed and unclothed...

    it was a terrible thing to watch him die over and over on the police video...when I went to the trial...

    RP Police Dept. are appealing on a technicality
    .

    Branch was confused and had been trying to comply with what the officers were telling him to do...

    Branch was a kind and gentle white man...beloved and missed by many...myself included...
    The video is probably available for public to see...


    Years ago Jesse Hamilton was shot by law enforcement.
    It was Jesse who had the pocket knife, but I'm not sure whether or not he was waving it around.
    I know he didn't hurt anyone physically.

    The House Managers (or whatever their title was) had called law enforecement because he was acting out and wouldn't take his meds.

    By the time they arrived, Jesse was in his room, had taken his meds by the time the officers arriveds, and was calm and peaceful.

    The House Managers pleaded with the police to leave Jesse alone, stating that they no longer needed the officers' help.

    However they insisted on banging on the door of Jesse's room, insisting he come out.

    They shot him.

    He was white also.


    I don't have time to write more now, so I encourage folks to search for more info for themselves.


    Both Branch and Jesse were former students in the homeschooling circles I facilitated when they were kids, and I was/am good friends with their families.



    Jeremiah (last name Chase?)
    was the name of the teenage boy that law enforcement officers cornered in the van and shot.

    I am not sure whether or not he/ his family were people of color or not....

    I remember his photo in the newpaper, and his face...
    I had his photo on my bulletin board for a long time...


    However, and important to remember,
    these sorts of things occur much more frequently when people of color are involved.

    Equally important to realize, survivors of these tragedies, no matter color of skin, all grieve.
    And I know from my personal experience, that a mother's grief never ends.


    I could go on and on with true stories ...

    People of color have a tremendously difficult getting justice.
    Low income also,
    but racism is #1, ie.,
    low income #2.

    I went (with proof) to many lawyers re: mishandling of law enfocement after my son's death.

    Each lawyer said, either,
    that you can never win against law enforcement,
    or that they wouldn't make enough money off the case

    (because I chose to forgive the man who killed my son instead of suing him etc., and was trying to make constructive changes based on Love...).

    Much more to this story.

    I can't take time to write more about this.

    I pray, that when our times come, we each have a Peaceful Death (humans, animals, insects, plants, stars, All).

    Healing Love and Courageous LovingActivism,
    dw
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:38 PM.
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  37. TopTop #20
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    via a friend:

    One of my acquaintances David Ward of Bloomfield reported his car stolen.
    Although he found it a short time later, he did not report it immediately to the Sheriff.
    He is partly disabled.
    The Sheriff pulled him over while he was driving, told him to get out of the car.
    He did so very slowly because he was on oxygen and had the tank on the passenger seat next to him.

    The sheriff deputies hauled him out of the car forcefully, put a neck hold on him and he died on the spot. The Sebastopol police was there as an non-participant.

    He never had a chance to speak either in while in the car or while being hauled out since his
    disability limited speech considerably.

    His mother has been unable to get resolution of this in the past year.
    Jill Ravitch the DA refuses to cooperate and unconditionally supports the sheriff.

    This system needs complete overhaul, not just a little tinkering. Jude

    Quote LivingTheDream wrote: View Post
    As I mentioned We can all agree to disagree. ...
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  39. TopTop #21

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    For those in favor of effective oversight of Law Enforcement, be sure to sign the Change.org petition re: Effective Oversight ( I don't recall the entire name, but I posted about this a few days on wacco.) Peacenik's post probably has this info also.

    Kindness and Healing and Effective Activism,
    dusty
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:46 PM.
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  41. TopTop #22
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    OH, AND THESE MURDERS BY LOCAL POLICE ARE OF WHITE PEOPLE. IN THIS CASE OLD AND SICK.

    our demographic is older white. and we still get killed.

    wild warrior archetype to defer to wise elder leadership. in tribes, older women gave direction to young braves.

    may youthful - and all ages - blacks (and browns and all colors) be extra protected, protected from those we pay to protect us. sheeesh.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:12 PM.
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  43. TopTop #23
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Have you heard of the incident on April 4, 2020, when Mr. Anglero-Wyrick, an Afro-American man, was detained at his home in Graton by County Sheriffs, who then released a K-9 dog on him, for 2 minutes. He received dog bite wounds in his leg. Mr Anglero-Wyrick was arrested for parole violation & resisting arrest.

    I'd think, based on his wounds, there will be a lawsuit. It seems that the use of the dog was excessive. There are reports of this on FB.

    I was at my home in Graton that day. I thought there was a massive bust underway, as a helicopter flew round and around Graton, for 10-15 minutes.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:05 PM.
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  45. TopTop #24
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Yes you have been one of the fortunate ones apparently. Those of us who have had encounters with the police, not so much. I've had to call for help and have not been helped until I was finally injured. We have very little in the way of services here and relying on the police to arbitrate who gets what services are available is not helpful. So I wonder what we could be spending money on instead of relying on our police, who shouldn't be doing the jobs they are asked to do. At least thats been my experience.

    Quote Dustyg wrote: View Post
    I've lived in Sebastopol since 1974 and have had nothing but positive experience with the police here. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:03 PM.
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  47. TopTop #25
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Over the last couple of years our mental health services have been severely cut. And for most folks with severe issues, the one entrance into the system is thru the police. They determine if someone is a danger to themselves or others. Or if they are gravely disabled. So many many mentally ill folks end up in our county jail. Many are traumatized by their encounters. Sometimes their lack of skill or frustration with the system means that calling them for help does nothing, because they bring people in who are immediately released. Or calling them puts our loved ones in danger, because being a danger to others can mean danger to the officer. Not a good combination. Our police aren't social workers. And paying more money to the police while cutting essential services affects everyone.
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  49. TopTop #26

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Yes, I heard of that happening in graton.

    I saw a photo of the man, after he'd been attacked by the dog. It was bloody awful...

    Not sure, but I think that's the case when the officer could not get the dog to release it's bite/hold/teeth from the man.

    This stuff has been going on in Graton for decades, probably longer. ICE raids in the middle of the night, pulling people out of their homes in their pjs (or less clothing) putting them face down on the pavementl.

    Miguel Molina has spoken of this on KPFA.org .

    He may or may not still be a resident of Graton.

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    Have you heard of the incident on April 4, 2020, when Mr. Anglero-Wyrick, an Afro-American man, was detained at his home in Graton by County Sheriffs, who then released a K-9 dog on him, for 2 minutes.....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2020 at 12:01 PM.
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  51. TopTop #27
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote gaiasophia wrote: View Post
    For those in favor of effective oversight of Law Enforcement, be sure to sign the Change.org petition re: Effective Oversight ( I don't recall the entire name, but I posted about this a few days on wacco.)
    See more info about this important initiative here on WaccoBB.

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  53. TopTop #28
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    Have you heard of the incident on April 4, 2020, when Mr. Anglero-Wyrick, an Afro-American man, was detained at his home in Graton by County Sheriffs, who then released a K-9 dog on him, for 2 minutes....
    More info on this, including shocking video is on the PD here

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  55. TopTop #29
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote gaiasophia wrote: View Post
    ...Last year the (3 or 4 of them) Rohnert Park Police Dept. were convicted of killing Branch, in much the same way that beloved gentle giant George Floyd was murdered.
    More info about this on the PD here, including "I can't breathe"

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  57. TopTop #30
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: 45% of Sebastopol Budget dedicated to Police Services

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    ...David Ward of Bloomfield reported his car stolen.
    Although he found it a short time later, he did not report it immediately to the Sheriff.
    He is partly disabled.
    The Sheriff pulled him over while he was driving, told him to get out of the car.
    He did so very slowly because he was on oxygen and had the tank on the passenger seat next to him.

    The sheriff deputies hauled him out of the car forcefully, put a neck hold on him and he died on the spot. The Sebastopol police was there as an non-participant....
    More info about this on the PD here.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2020 at 08:56 AM.

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