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  1. TopTop #31
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    ....What exactly would be the criteria for a thread to be placed in this new “Engaging with Trumpsters” category vs the “National & International Politics” category? More importantly why would one consider this new category as justification to ban “Trumpsters” from the National and International political discourse category?

    Seems to me that the bottom line is that you don't like Cyberanvil's politics....
    well, as someone who 'engaged' with the Trumpsters a lot, I thought I could tell the difference between threads that could stay on the normal political thread vs. the ones that should go off into a dark alley. I also didn't see any mention of a ban, though I guess our few right-leaning posters felt that they were being given one.

    Too many of the discussions weren't discussions. I and others would challenge one of their statements, or respond to a challenge of our own, and find that the replies started veering off into some form of planting a flag. There was a serious lack of any explanation of Trump's actions - for example, none of his supporters ever tried to make a case where his trade policy would end up benefiting American workers (boy, does that seem a long time ago), or why his responses to the Covid-19 situation do indeed show a man who can effectively marshall the country's resources.

    Too often it would turn in a meta-discussion, about the quality of discussion or responsiveness of answers. That's not 'national politics'. Barry had a reasonable solution. It would be interesting to have more representatives of the right, but as the Washington Post has found out, too often you end up with Marc Theissen or Hugh Hewitt - people whose description of reality, or cause and effect, only work if you accept unreasonable premises and don't acknowledge the existence of alternate perspectives.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-21-2020 at 12:24 PM.
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  3. TopTop #32

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    The Introduction to waccobb starts out with

    "WaccoBB.net is a bulletin board for the progressive community of Sonoma County."

    https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...n-to-this-site
    This is a description that I find only on a single third party site (Go Local). I do not find this language anywhere on Wacco's site. The link that Barry added to your thread, Introduction to this Site, does not seem to be an introduction accessible from anywhere other than the included link, nor is this language included on Wacco's FB page. If I've missed this Introduction Welcome Page I thank you in advance to point me in the right direction.

    With or without the “progressive community” language I don't find any rules or requirements posted on the Wacco site for potential members regarding limitations to discourse based on particular inclinations of any kind. As I suggested, if the desire is to exclude or prevent a specific personal perspective, opinion or persuasion from participating than make that clear at the onset. Clarity is the key. Let's not hide behind rhetorical language of the sixties enabling us to pretend that we're open minded, fair, tolerant and excepting of others.

    Without context, descriptors such as conscious and progressive are relatively meaningless as a definition of community. Conscious simply means having self awareness or being capable of thought, will or perception. I think it fair to say that Cyberanvil has adequately demonstrated his ability to meet the criteria of conscious, as have others of right leaning persuasions.

    Progressive means to move forward, to advance toward better conditions or new policies, ideas or methods. That's a very subjective concept. For instance, Trump's often criticized unprecedented behavior is in fact the pushing forward of a new method of governance in America. By definition that would be progressive. On the flip side, by definition, centrist/moderate democrats doing nothing to advance new policies, ideas, methods or better conditions would not be included in the concept of progressive. My point is that without a deeper context the language of progressive community is insufficient as a transparent rule, requirement or even guideline for membership &/or participation.

    To suggest, as you did in your original post, that perhaps Cyber, Ray and their buds should find another site for their point of view was, in my opinion, the only comment with clarity of thought - your preference is to exclude those with a different point of view.... noted
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  5. TopTop #33
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Rustie, I found the above link by following various links provided on this website. I did not start at any other site and I wasn't on FB.You'll have to figure out the trail yourself.

    Your semantic quibbles would be better addressed to Barry since I did not write the Introduction I quoted.

    My objection to posters from the right (Ray, cyber, et al) on this forum is that they do not for the most part stay on topic which makes any kind of discussion of that topic impossible. Rather, they almost immediately turn it into a personal attack or go off on a tangent about Obama, Clinton, etc.

    You have shown a marked tendency to jump to conclusions about me, Rustie, which suggests to me that you cling to certain stereotypes in your own worldview. While I feel no need to explain or defend myself as a rule, I will say here that several of my contacts/ebuds hold markedly different political views from mine and we are able to disagree and remain open to each other. You might want to take another look at your own entrenched preferences and points of view.

    Certainly there are umpty other sites that would be more harmonious to the posters from the right than wacco is. I never got the impression from any of them that they were interested in some sort of mutual rapprochement or understanding between their viewpoint and the the one that predominates on this site. Rather, they just liked to jump in and take potshots at anyone's post they disliked.

    And, finally, I will say that you do seem to enjoy splitting hairs, girl. :-)

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    This is a description that I find only on a single third party site (Go Local). ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-21-2020 at 12:30 PM.
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  7. TopTop #34
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Barry, you once designated this posting as your "pick".

    I urge everyone to watch these two short videos ... they will not insult your intelligence ... and then perhaps we can discuss how we can focus on the real threats to our freedoms in in the world and how we can face them together, without labels and prejudices ...

    https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...4-Unity-Needed
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  9. TopTop #35
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    "Certainly there are umpty other sites that would be more harmonious to the posters from the right than wacco is."

    Some of the reasons I use Wacco is because it is local and because it has many features: announcements of public events, items for sale, and discussion of many topics, not only political ones. So, in my opinion, limiting users to a particular place on the political spectrum does not seem very inclusive or friendly for a community site.
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  11. TopTop #36
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    I didn't propose banning cyberanvil from this category (and only from this category) because of his politics. There are several other Trumpsters that are welcome (or at least tolerated ) here. It was because of the nature of his posts - they were more like drive-by shootings, rather than seriously engaging.

    And this site is for the progressive community, which does not include Trumpsters. I've allowed some thoughtful and respectful Trumpsters here to stir debate, possibly bringing a worthy point to consider. However cyberanvil was neither thoughtful nor respectful. We'll see if there is still a need for the new category without him.

    FYI, my take on Conscious is here.

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    Wow! I can hardly believe that this conversation is even happening.

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  13. TopTop #37
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    PS Rustie, if you can find your way to "wacco.bb FAQs," scroll down to the bottom of the list of FAQs to "Introduction to this site." Bingo!

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    Rustie, I found the above link by following various links provided on this website. I did not start at any other site and I wasn't on FB.You'll have to figure out the trail yourself. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-22-2020 at 09:00 AM.
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  15. TopTop #38
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    What?? Is Cyberanvil being shoehorned out of Waccobb?! If so, I protest! The more right-leaning posters--Cyber apparently being the only one still posting--added a welcome and interesting spice to this liberal echo chamber (I being among them).

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    Wand unused.

    Account canceled per request.

    Fare Thee Well.
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  17. TopTop #39
    rossmen
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Alas, another sad day in wacco land. Losing another true believer to the heavy handed site stealer/editor berry. He has no shame.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-22-2020 at 03:15 PM.
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  18. TopTop #40
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Alas, another sad day in wacco land. Losing another true believer to the heavy handed site stealer/editor berry. He has no shame.
    Clearly

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  20. TopTop #41
    ray50sfo
    Guest

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    I've allowed some thoughtful and respectful Trumpsters here to stir debate, possibly bringing a worthy point to consider.
    How kind of you, you open-minded progressive, you.

    Is 'thoughtful and respectful Trumpsters' sort of like
    well behaved minorities'?

    You wouldn't dare say that about someone Black or of Muslim heritage, would you?


    The only thing progressive is the progressive erosion of personal choice and liberty, and the progressive silencing of anybody who isn't echoing the pre-sanctioned thoughts of the "Hive"

    And thank you for your graciousness in "allowing" us sub-human "Trumpsters" to dine on the crumbs from your cake at the virtual table...

    Asta la vista, Snowflakes.

    Enjoy your echo chamber.
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  22. TopTop #42
    Star Man's Avatar
    Star Man
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    ..And thank you for your graciousness in "allowing" us sub-human "Trumpsters" to dine on the crumbs from your cake at the virtual table...

    Asta la vista, Snowflakes.

    Enjoy your echo chamber.
    What I experienced from "Cyb....anv.." was nothing but ad hominem attacks. Much like the name calling in this post from "ray5-sfo" So snarky. Attempting to insult Barry when indeed he was being open-minded by allowing some comments from Trumpsters. Calling us "snowflakes." Such a projection.

    Star Man
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  24. TopTop #43
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    God, how the right-wingers love to equate themselves with persecuted minorities while denying that racism exists in this country!

    Anyway, how many websites require people to accept their Terms and Conditions before allowing access to those sites? Lots of them in my experience. Barry has every right to define and uphold the parameters of a website he created. That he doesn't require a formal acceptance (a click) of those parameters before allowing access speaks to his expectation of mature participation and mutual respect from all of the waccos--or at least I think it does.

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    ..And thank you for your graciousness in "allowing" us sub-human "Trumpsters" to dine on the crumbs from your cake at the virtual table...
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  26. TopTop #44
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Agreed, Star Man. Unfortunately, that seemed to be the highest level of discourse of which they were capable.

    Quote Star Man wrote: View Post
    What I experienced from "Cyb....anv.." was nothing but ad hominem attacks. ...
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  27. TopTop #45
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Sure, Barry has a right to do anything he wants with his website creation. For me, the question is: what do we Waccos really prefer this site to be? I am as passionate a progressive as any of you, but I relish the rare opportunity to hear from people of a more right-wing persuasion, because I really want to understand them. Hearing from no one but lefties provides limited illumination. I already pretty much know what you think. What I understand much less is why righties think and feel the way they do. And for me this forum was becoming much more interesting when people of a different point of view began to post.

    I even reached out to Ray, who I think was the first rightie to post here, on his website and we almost met in person. He actually seemed like a nice and intelligent guy. I'm still open, Ray! Ray was snarky when others were snarky to him, but he wasn't snarky with me. I think most people harbor inner feelings of anger and defensiveness, and if you poke at them they will poke back at you. This can be fun, but it doesn't lead to deeper understanding.

    I think there is an urgent need for lefties and righties and everyone between to try to respect and come to a deeper and more sympathetic understanding with each other. If some of these people are angry and feel screwed (and don't we all to some degree?) they should be encouraged to express themselves, for their own good and so that we can all see where they're coming from.

    I commend Cyberanvil and some earlier posters for their courage in expressing themselves in this basically progressive forum, and opening themselves up to considerable mass disapproval. And Cyber has not always been so hostile as the posts people are focusing on now. He has often made a real effort to communicate, and has submitted some interesting cartoons. If he sometimes behaves in ways that seem over the line to some people, let him express and reveal those sides of himself! Don't kick him out of the family and make him feel even more like a rejected victim. Let's all open up and get to know each other at a deeper level.

    This is my vision for Wacco.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-23-2020 at 10:14 AM.
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  29. TopTop #46
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Not so strange to make a grand statement without reviewing the particulars, or the post sequences this issue arose from, broad brush broadcasters not good at focusing on specifics.

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    How kind of you, you open-minded progressive, you....
    Last edited by Barry; 04-23-2020 at 10:16 AM.
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  31. TopTop #47
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    When I accused him of being a bot, he returned in a comment that he was truthsherpa, I gave him a gratitude on that, I liked the name.

    As things developed other people were having problems with cyberanvil, like maybe they didn't want their words smashed against a piece of iron.
    like some people introduce ideas they would like to work with here and then get an I'm so smart and your so stupid kind of response.
    But, I wished he would stay but more as a truthsherpa than as a cyberanvil.
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  33. TopTop #48
    rossmen
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Maybe someday you can get the balls to apologize to my mad brother miles.

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    Clearly
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  34. TopTop #49
    rossmen
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Berry did not create wacco, he stole the name from a true community site for his own personal gain despite numerous protests. I don't self define as a progressive either, just like truthanvil. I'm an anarchist, should I be banned?

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    God, how the right-wingers love to equate themselves with persecuted minorities while denying that racism exists in this country!

    Anyway, how many websites require people to accept their Terms and Conditions before allowing access to those sites? Lots of them in my experience. Barry has every right to define and uphold the parameters of a website he created. That he doesn't require a formal acceptance (a click) of those parameters before allowing access speaks to his expectation of mature participation and mutual respect from all of the waccos--or at least I think it does.
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  36. TopTop #50
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

    No one has been banned from wacco TMK. Barry just proposed a separate category for the far right's perspective. He got a lot of "gratitude" when he put forth the idea.Those who have withdrawn from wacco CHOSE to do so. My impression was that they were pissed because they wouldn't be allowed to take any more potshots at posters on the Politics thread. They certainly never offered much in the way of rational discussion, which is not surprising to me because so many of their views are based on fake news and alternative facts from the internet and Trump. The best they could come up with were personal insults and misdirection, not unlike their fearless leader.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Berry did not create wacco, he stole the name from a true community site for his own personal gain despite numerous protests. I don't self define as a progressive either, just like truthanvil. I'm an anarchist, should I be banned?
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  38. TopTop #51
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    ...And this site is for the progressive community, which does not include Trumpsters.
    Thanks for spelling that out Barry. You can delete my account too if you want to bother,,, I will not be back regardless.

    I had hopes that this site could engage in debate... but you are making it clear this is no better than Fox, WND, Infowars. MSNBC.

    A safe place for one pint of view. Contrary views be damned.

    Someday...maybe,,, you'll realize that a single view is not right. That this is a complicated and very diverse nation- and the only way forward is to work together. That even when you are right- you have to work to pull others along. And that sometimes- you have to realize that what is right in your reality diesel;t apply everywhere else.

    Good luck....
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  40. TopTop #52
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    Thanks for spelling that out Barry. You can delete my account too if you want to bother,,, I will not be back regardless. ....
    I'm sorry to hear that, SPC. I've always valued your input. There have been several Trumpsters we have welcomed as guests. If they are thoughtful and respectful they are welcome as guests. I ask our progressive community to be thoughtful and respectful as well. Many Trumpsters devolve into rather banal misinformation, and often hijack discussions with their taunts.

    If they engage thoughtfully, they are welcome. They was one trumpster, cyberanvil, that I had tolerated long enough and I felt he was having an unhealthy effect this cyber community. I just wanted to provide a way to protect conversations from his "remarks" that would hijack them.

    I hope you will re-consider, SPC.

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  42. TopTop #53
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    I don't think you investigated the issue per posts this is about, excuse me, if I post a thing it already presupposes a matter of importance that I would go to the effort to post it, If I get responded to in mockery how is that good?
    You can do that stuff on yahoo.

    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    Thanks for spelling that out Barry. You can delete my account too if you want to bother,,, I will not be back regardless. ....
    Last edited by Barry; 04-26-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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  44. TopTop #54
    rossmen
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Yes people have been banned from wacco! Against their will and expressed desire! What site are you on woman fool? Berry has called me a troll, limited my access, and threated banishment! He banned by biological brother, and refused him access to his own writing, which was once a valued contribution. And yes mad miles is an avowed progressive. Why do you want to be a hammer in an echo chamber? One progressive value I appreciate is welcoming diversity. Without it the world is boring, stupid, and destructive.

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

    No one has been banned from wacco TMK. Barry just proposed a separate category for the far right's perspective. He got a lot of "gratitude" when he put forth the idea.Those who have withdrawn from wacco CHOSE to do so. My impression was that they were pissed because they wouldn't be allowed to take any more potshots at posters on the Politics thread. They certainly never offered much in the way of rational discussion, which is not surprising to me because so many of their views are based on fake news and alternative facts from the internet and Trump. The best they could come up with were personal insults and misdirection, not unlike their fearless leader.
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  46. TopTop #55
    Star Man's Avatar
    Star Man
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    What site are you on woman fool? One progressive value I appreciate is welcoming diversity. Without it the world is boring, stupid, and destructive.
    Now you have pissed me off. Diversity does NOT give you the right to call Wisewomn a fool. Calling her a name perfectly illustrates the virulent emptiness of the so-called conservatives. You are all merely oppositional defiant adolescents no matter what your age. You haven't grown up. What you call diversity is really just name calling. The truth of my words is revealed in the data. Barry started a special thread for you and last I looked only 25 comments had been posted. What a feckless movement! Star Man
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  48. TopTop #56
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Diversity has a quotient. As in the US the presumption is that there is a body of citizens who operate in the knowledge and reverence of the advanced hope of what the Constitution was designed for. In that number is the quotient where incoming never overwhelms the existing. It's intended as flavoring, not for changing the course.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Yes people have been banned from wacco! Against their will and expressed desire! What site are you on woman fool? Berry has called me a troll, limited my access, and threated banishment! He banned by biological brother, and refused him access to his own writing, which was once a valued contribution. And yes mad miles is an avowed progressive. Why do you want to be a hammer in an echo chamber? One progressive value I appreciate is welcoming diversity. Without it the world is boring, stupid, and destructive.
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  50. TopTop #57
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    I was referring to the people in question on this thread: cyber and ray.

    Your diatribe is yet another example of the Right's inability to stay on topic and to project their own flaws onto others.

    Sit down and take a few deep breaths, Rossmen.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Yes people have been banned from wacco! Against their will and expressed desire! What site are you on woman fool? Berry has called me a troll, limited my access, and threated banishment! He banned by biological brother, and refused him access to his own writing, which was once a valued contribution. And yes mad miles is an avowed progressive. Why do you want to be a hammer in an echo chamber? One progressive value I appreciate is welcoming diversity. Without it the world is boring, stupid, and destructive.
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  52. TopTop #58
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    However it happened, I am very glad to see all three of these people leave!

    A few years ago a guy using the handle of Ms. Terry was making problems. The observation was made that this forum is basically a party and Barry is the host. As a good host, it is his job to create a pleasant environment where a good time can be had by all. If someone is being a bad guest, Barry has every right to move them out to the back yard or ask them to leave if it really gets out of hand. It's his party, and he can ban if he wants to.

    The problem was not necessarily the political views or support of Trump and right-wing notions. It was the snide, sneering, snarky and generally obnoxious nature of the commentary. Another observation: most of their commentary, especially on the part of Cyberanvil, was just plain ignorant and/or wrong around 90% of the time!

    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    Thanks for spelling that out Barry. You can delete my account too if you want to bother,,, I will not be back regardless. ...
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  54. TopTop #59
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    Back on Wacco after a 5 day vacation from the computer. Wow!

    As I read so many of you putting down the threatened-with-banishment-from-Wacco non-lefties for snarkyness, I just urge you to look over all the posts putting down Ray and Cyber and notice how much disrespect and hostility is exhibited there. We liberals aren't always so sweet and lovely either! Even to each other!

    I had always thought one of the finest and most defining aspect of liberals was respect for others with a different point of view and an interest in understanding them as human beings. It doesn't mean having to agree with them. Aren't you curious about how even intelligent people can sometimes see things in such a different way than you and your friends? And whatever your complaints about Ray and Cyber, they are clearly intelligent. And in my email contacts with Ray I found him to be quite kind and even self-effacing in his attitude about his opinions.

    Ray and Cyber dared to venture into lefty Wacco land with an obvious desire to communicate, and got whacked! Is this your vision of liberalism? Whack and ye shall get whacked! Reach out your arms and you just might get communication.

    Glia here says that most of their commentary was "just plain ignorant and/or wrong around 90% of the time." Well that's your opinion, Glia, and a blanket rejection that seems to leave no more room for discussion. What would happen if you and the rest of us Wacko liberals--instead of saying "you're wrong!"--said instead, "why do you see it that way?"

    To resolve the issue by establishing a separate category for right-leaning posters on Wacco would be like saying "Go to your room and shut the door and scream all you like, little guy!" That would be so pseudo-liberal I am stunned.

    Quote Glia wrote: View Post
    However it happened, I am very glad to see all three of these people leave!
    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-29-2020 at 10:10 PM.
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  55. TopTop #60
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Banning cbyeranvil from the Inter/National Politics category

    This post is another example of wholesale put-down of the "Right." It may be true in some cases, but it may also be true for the "Left." Whackamo!

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    I was referring to the people in question on this thread: cyber and ray.

    Your diatribe is yet another example of the Right's inability to stay on topic and to project their own flaws onto others.

    Sit down and take a few deep breaths, Rossmen.
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    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-16-2016, 03:25 PM
  3. Welcome to the National Politics Category!
    By Barry in forum National & International Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 05:01 PM

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