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  1. TopTop #301

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    [TAKE TWO...]

    Knock, Knock, Peter/podfish, I’m talking to you


    However – perhaps you have forgotten – you yourself once casually dismissed me as a “red-piller.” Remember?
    well, not quite. My quote was " being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense."
    now, if you insist on casting yourself as the red-piller, you're implicitly casting me or people I would be more likely to agree with as sheeple. That should give perspective on whether to read that as a personal slam or not.
    ..In the first place, my own "perspective" - speaking strictly for myself - is not "drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources." Far from it. I'm the guy who posts screeds like the following, ...
    The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins
    the following words through the DuckDuckGoSearch engine: ...
    well, there's a bit of know-your-audience. If I'm responding to some right-wing post, I'm not going to trot out Noam Chomsky as an authority. Robert Kennedy should similarly be disqualified. Good choice of search engines, though.
    But anyway, my response that you're objecting to, that you seem to think was to one of your posts, was to one by amayon. Are you trying to take offense for him? I think he earns it by his tone, which is far more pugnacious than yours. Or are you accepting him as bedfellow in this discussion? because sure, you're more likely to draw from broad sources than the others who I might carelessly and somewhat unfairly lump together as if you all had one point of view.
    Now, Peter/podfish, If you would actually like to have a conversation with this one... we can have a discourse about my ‘methodology’ on the level of adults. But if you prefer to ignore me and shine on my attempt to have a conversation with you, you ought to concede – in all honesty - that you have only come down into our ward to kibitz and to troll:
    as you can see, I'm taking the accusation of ignoring you seriously (at least, as seriously as befits interwebby back&forth). Just like you don't get to pick your own nickname, or say you're not racist, you don't get to say you're not a troll - but I don't think of myself that way. (now, kibbitzer? maybe..) However, it is true I'm not all that motivated to get into the kind of discussion you want, where we can both dig up sources and debate the credibility of their data. I'll limit myself to pointing out when someone trots out a particularly weak observation, or to be fair to me (because on reviewing some of my posts, I do this quite often too), to comment positively when someone makes an argument that I find fresh, interesting, or well made in some other sense.
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  3. TopTop #302
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Man, you do go on. In the realm of Science, peer review by experts in a given field is essential in evaluating new *evidence*. An Hypothesis will graduate to Theory status when a critical mass of people with deep knowledge of the subject accept radical new evidence. Generally, they are the younger scientists but several respected seniors are essential in closing the deal.

    I saw this happen with Plate Tectonics in 1970-72. The most convincing single body of evidence for the average geologist was the deep borehole profile that the Glomar Challenger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Challenger drilled across the North Atlantic from New England to Europe. The cores from the borings clearly showed the on-lap on ever younger sedimentary layers onto the pillow-lavas on the flanks of the Mid-Atlantice ridge. Our Department Chair, George White, an eminent glacial geologist, was almost giddy when he showed me the article on this subject that he was reading. The whole Plate Tectonics paradigm was falling into place for him, and I knew personally how mind-boggling it was to suddenly grasp how Earth's surface as a whole was moving.

    Right now the genomic epidemiology of the COVID-19 virus is an area of active study by numerous groups all over the planet. Granular changes in the virus genome are being used to map its spread. If the virus has been weaponized, there are too many mutually independent labs to keep the matter secret. I await scientifically peer reviewed articles on genetic interlopers in virus genome.

    In one of your other screeds I saw some links to articles in Nature magazine. I'll look at those, but watch a lawyer or the odd chiropractor on YouTube? I'd rather watch my trees grow. .

    Last edited by Barry; 06-08-2020 at 09:42 AM.
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  5. TopTop #303
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    well, not quite. My quote was " being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense."

    Not so fast, Peter. If you go back and read all of that in the context of my being booted off of that thread - under the not so-veiled threat of a 'ban' by Barry, what you wrote was a bit like gloating over the fall of somebody else.

    Quote Shandi wrote: View Post
    Susan, I agree that the intended topic is about the Coronavirus and how we can act responsibly by sharing information that may be helpful to readers. How would you feel if your posts about this topic were banned or relegated to being posted only in "Censored and Uncensored"? This has happened to one of our members who posted information on this topic. I'm still trying to understand why. Even if the information is controversial; it still has a right to be shared. Many topics on here are controversial, such as the vaccine issue, on which I'll be posting some new information. It may be seen as "fake news", but it depends on the viewer's perception.


    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    well, questions of fact really don't depend on the viewer's perception. Unless you agree with KellyAnn Conway, there isn't such a thing as 'alternative facts'. It's perfectly legitimate to question the conclusions of mainstream science, but it's not reasonable to expect to be put on equal footing. So being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense. Sure, put out a caveat that there are people who strongly disagree with the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, and who have cunning or innovative suggestions about how to treat yourself or what they think has worked for them. But the topic of this thread, 'acting responsibly', seems to imply a focus on better substantiated factual information

    But, tell you what. Today is a new day. And if you agree not to call me a "red-piller" , I'll very certainly agree not to call you a "blue piller". And if you stop acting like a troll down here in this Ward, I'll won't ever mention the word again. Glad to see that you concede to being a kibitzer. Stop it.

    Meanwhile, I suggest that y'all read up on the contrarian positions to the MSM Party-Line about Covid-19. Put the "drag-net method" that I have detailed (above) into action. Read everything. Take notes. Take the time to work out the contradictions on your own. Don't react.
    Think ! Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar at the foot of the page. Read.



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  6. TopTop #304
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    Man, you do go on. In the realm of Science, peer review by experts in a given field is essential in evaluating new *evidence*. An Hypothesis will graduate to Theory status when a critical mass of people with deep knowledge of the subject accept radical new evidence. Generally, they are the younger scientists but several respected seniors are essential in closing the deal...

    Right now the genomic epidemiology of the COVID-19 virus is an area of active study by numerous groups all over the planet. Granular changes in the virus genome are being used to map its spread. If the virus has been weaponized, there are too many mutually independent labs to keep the matter secret. I await scientifically peer reviewed articles on genetic interlopers in virus genome.

    In one of your other screeds I saw some links to articles in Nature magazine. I'll look at those, but watch a lawyer or the odd chiropractor on YouTube? I'd rather watch my trees grow.
    I like what you say about preferring to watch your trees grow, Richard. I'm really into that myself; my deck is my Nursery and I have a lot growing there that I may watch. I'd much rather spend All of my time in my garden. But In the face of Mandatory Vaccinations and ID2020, I am constrained to post here. This is the End, folks - the End of Days - and there are multitudes, multitudes in the Valley of Decision.

    The Valley of Decision - which confronts every one of the Seven Billion inhabitants of Planet Earth at this hour - is whether to allow oneself to be micro-chipped =OR= Not.

    Now - changing the subject - Richard
    if you, as a scientist, would be willing to look into the findings of the Virologist who was given the Nobel prize in 2008 for mapping the genome of HIV you may do that - even before the "peer reviews" arrive. Dr. Luc Montagnier has analyzed the genome of SARS-2/Covid-19 in his laboratory:

    https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?133723-Covid-19-origin-according-to-Nobel-Prize-Scientist&p=235533#post235533

    And, if you would be willing to read the transcript of an interview with Dr. Francis Boyle, the lawyer who drafted the Bio-weapons Treaty that passed both Houses unanimously in 1989, you may access that here :

    https://greatgameindia.com/transcript-bioweapons-expert-dr-francis-boyle-on-coronavirus/

    I would encourage everyone to do this. And while you're @ it, make a Microsoft Word (tm) copy of the interview of Dr. Peter Daszak by Amy Goodman - here's the transcript. - Print that out, too, and study both testimonies; and wrap your mind around the massive cognitive dissonance, folks.


    You can even print them out, staple 'em, and read it all while you watch your trees grow.




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  7. TopTop #305

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    ..... Stop it....
    sorry, not a chance

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  9. TopTop #306

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    There is not going to be any mandatory vaccinations. 21% of they (more republicans than democrats) US adult public say the will not take a vaccine to protect from Covid-19. You might think about putting the fear of a forced vaccination to bed.

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    ...But In the face of Mandatory Vaccinations and ID2020, I am constrained to post here. This is the End, folks - the End of Days - and there are multitudes, multitudes in the Valley of Decision.

    The Valley of Decision - which confronts every one of the Seven Billion inhabitants of Planet Earth at this hour - is whether to allow oneself to be micro-chipped =OR= Not. ...
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  11. TopTop #307
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Goat Rock Ukulele wrote: View Post
    There is not going to be any mandatory vaccinations. 21% of they (more republicans than democrats) US adult public say the will not take a vaccine to protect from Covid-19. You might think about putting the fear of a forced vaccination to bed.
    They are going to release a "second wave" of Covid 19, or a new virus altogether, that is more deadly and resistant to treatment, and then trot out the mandatory vaxx
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  12. TopTop #308
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"


    How to Analyze Disparate Media Data,
    'Theorize', & Resolve Contradictions...

    Most of us are new to the vast field of data that we must process in order to get up to speed on the parameters of the corona-virus crisis – and there is a lot of disinformation out there that we must deal with. It is time to appreciate the Zen concept of "beginner's mind."

    To my way of thinking, one must begin with the understanding that one does not know anything. -And one must read everything and be open to truth from all quarters, and then work out the contradictions. That is the methodology
    I learned from the late Mae Brussell of Carmel, and I consider myself to be one of her disciples.

    Although I am not a Buddhist, I find that the four ko-tis of Buddhist logic are of great benefit in fully processing the piles of information at a time like this. -For Binary/Western -& even Hegelian/Western (trinary)- logic is an intellectual straitjacket.

    In the first place, I want to thank Melissa Sophia Joy for bringing Professor Francis Boyle to my attention; caromia333 for bringing Dr. Peter Daszak into the picture; my brother-in-law for calling my attention to the article from Newsweek; and wisewomn for the article from the Washington Post. Here are the links:


    Transcript of Interview of Dr. Francis Boyle
    [the lawyer who drafted the Bio-weapons Treaty of 1989]


    Interview of Dr. Peter Daszak by Amy Goodman - April 16, 2020
    Zoologist Debunks Trump’s COVID-19 Origin Theory, Calling It “Pure Baloney”


    Article by Fred Guterl in Newsweek, April 28, 2020:
    Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research



    Article by Josh Rogin, in the Washington Post, April 14, 2020
    State Department cables warned of safety issues

    at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses


    If any one is serious about getting to the bottom of the "Corona-virus Crisis" I would encourage you to A. Open up a file and label it "Corona-virus Controversy". B. Print these articles up. & C. Study them. Here we have a situation where we may practice Mae Brussell’s technique of reading everything & working out contradictions. -And this is by no means 'everything'. It is information from only four sources. But each source contains a piece of the puzzle.

    For the present, let us simply examine one term that professor Peter Boyle speaks of in his interviews – the phenomena of “gain-of-function” research on corona-viruses that originate in bat caves in China. He has a lot to say about it – none of it very charitable or especially forgiving. He also says categorically that the BSL-4 Laboratory in Wuhan, China is a “Bio-weapons Lab” He does not mince words.

    Dr. Peter Daszak, on the other hand, failed to mention to Amy Goodman’s listeners on Democracy Now! that he was doing “gain-of-function” research on Corona-viruses from bat caves in China at the lab in Wuhan. –A big glitch. But the journalist, Fred Guterl, in his article in Newsweek fills in that gap:

    "...The NIH research consisted of two parts. The first part began in 2014 and involved surveillance of bat coronaviruses, and had a budget of $3.7 million. The program funded Shi Zheng-Li, a virologist at the Wuhan lab, and other researchers to investigate and catalogue bat coronaviruses in the wild. This part of the project was completed in 2019.

    A second phase of the project, beginning that year [2019, ed.] included additional surveillance work but also gain-of-function research for the purpose of understanding how bat coronaviruses could mutate to attack humans. The project was run by EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit research group, under the direction of President Peter Daszak, an expert on disease ecology. NIH canceled the project just this past Friday, April 24th, Politico reported. Daszak did not immediately respond to Newsweek requests for comment..."


    -And Josh Rogin, in the article in the Washington Post fleshes out a little more detail about the nature of “gain-of-function research” :

    "The research was designed to prevent the next SARS-like pandemic by anticipating how it might emerge. But even in 2015, other scientists questioned whether Shi’s team was taking unnecessary risks. In October 2014, [under Obama, ed.] the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “gain-of-function” experiments."

    So what can one make of these contradictions? Obviously, there is a massive cognitive dissonance between the two testimonies -that of Dr. Francis Boyle and that of Dr. Peter Daszak. It is obvious that they cannot both be telling the "whole truth & nothing but the truth". This little pile of data (above) has already indicated that there are holes in the story of Dr. Peter Daszak. It is also evident that Dr. Peter Daszak was employed by Dr. Anthony Fauci to do "gain-of-function research" on bat corona-viruses at the Bio-Weapons Lab in Wuhan, China.

    How does one proceed, in order to find out the Reality about any of this ?
    - One Begins by Asking Questions -

    For instance:

    "Who is Dr. Peter Daszak?" ***&*** "What is the 'nature' of his outfit, 'Eco-Health Alliance?'
    "

    & >important question< :

    "Does 'Eco-Health Alliance' have anything to do with William Gates the Third?"

    Here is another pile of data to plumb.
    -As I have said, One must
    Read Everything-


    ecohealth alliance , bill gates

    Keep hitting the
    "More Results" Bar
    @ the foot of the page.

    Read.


    Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:
    1. (If A is B), A is B
    2. A cannot be both B and not B
    3. A is either B or not B
    4. A is neither B nor not B
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2020 at 12:02 PM.
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  13. TopTop #309
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Goat Rock Ukulele wrote: View Post
    There is not going to be any mandatory vaccinations. 21% of they (more republicans than democrats) US adult public say the will not take a vaccine to protect from Covid-19. You might think about putting the fear of a forced vaccination to bed.

    Something you might have missed:

    To make sure that
    you’ve had all of your required doses of government mandated vaccines, scientists at MIT have created a new ink which can be embedded in the skin which can be read using a special infra-red smart phone camera app....

    “In other words, they’ve found a covert way to embed the record of a vaccination directly in a patient’s skin rather than documenting it electronically or on paper — and their low-risk tracking system could greatly simplify the process of maintaining accurate vaccine records, especially on a larger scale”...

    Essentially, this is new tech which can allow public administrators, law enforcement and corporate employers, to check within seconds to make sure that you are “safe” to be around,” and do not pose ‘a danger to the rest of the community.’

    Interestingly, the funding for this new vaccine tattoo technology has come from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which funded the team’s research.

    “According to a Scientific American story, the project came about following a direct request from Microsoft founder Bill Gates himself, who has been personally involved in efforts to eradicate polio and measles through vaccinations.”


    Get that?

    And What was the date of this article?

    December 23, 2019
    in 21 Wire


    Watch this trailer for the independent film Vaxxed II:

    Vaxxed II: The People's Truth | Official Trailer | 2019


    Here's the Queue @ VAXXED TV
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-03-2020 at 03:54 AM.
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  15. TopTop #310
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    You complain that those who oppose your opinions repeat themselves. Yet you keep repeating the same arguments and glorifying the same lengthy list of crackpot sources. The word for that is hypocrisy.

    A while back, in one message in which you complained about my repeating the same statements (in response to you and your like-minded WaccoBBers repeating the same statements), you said that the fact that you started this thread gives you special privileges or authority to regulate the conversation. I have actively participated in many forms online discussions
    since the early 1980s (Compuserve and similar services, BBSes, Usenet news groups, computer user groups). No discussion group that I am aware of gives the originator of a discussion any special prerogatives. I would appreciate hearing from our Moderator about whether the originator of a discussion has any special privileges here on WaccoBB.

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    Something you might have missed:
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  17. TopTop #311
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    You complain that those who oppose your opinions repeat themselves. Yet you keep repeating the same arguments and glorifying the same lengthy list of crackpot sources. The word for that is hypocrisy.

    I would appreciate hearing from our Moderator about whether the originator of a discussion has any special privileges here on WaccoBB.

    Our Moderator who art in heaven,
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  18. TopTop #312
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Finell wrote:
    You complain that those who oppose your opinions repeat themselves. Yet you keep repeating the same arguments and glorifying the same lengthy list of crackpot sources. The word for that is hypocrisy.

    A while back, in one message in which you complained about my repeating the same statements (in response to you and your like-minded WaccoBBers repeating the same statements), you said that the fact that you started this thread gives you special privileges or authority to regulate the conversation. I have actively participated in many forms online discussions since the early 1980s (Compuserve and similar services, BBSes, Usenet news groups, computer user groups). No discussion group that I am aware of gives the originator of a discussion any special prerogatives. I would appreciate hearing from our Moderator about whether the originator of a discussion has any special privileges here on WaccoBB.
    Which of these sources are you referring to, when you say
    "crack pot sources", Steven Finell, Esq. ?

    :

    Transcript of Interview of Dr. Francis Boyle
    [the lawyer who drafted the Bio-weapons Treaty of 1989]


    Interview of Dr. Peter Daszak by Amy Goodman - April 16, 2020
    Zoologist Debunks Trump’s COVID-19 Origin Theory, Calling It “Pure Baloney”


    Article by Fred Guterl in Newsweek, April 28, 2020:
    Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research



    Article by Josh Rogin, in the Washington Post, April 14, 2020
    State Department cables warned of safety issues

    at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses


    =OR=


    Perhaps it is the Scientific American?

    To make sure that you’ve had all of your required doses of government mandated vaccines, scientists at MIT have created a new ink which can be embedded in the skin which can be read using a special infra-red smart phone camera app....

    “In other words, they’ve found a covert way to embed the record of a vaccination directly in a patient’s skin rather than documenting it electronically or on paper — and their low-risk tracking system could greatly simplify the process of maintaining accurate vaccine records, especially on a larger scale”...

    Essentially, this is new tech which can allow public administrators, law enforcement and corporate employers, to check within seconds to make sure that you are “safe” to be around,” and do not pose ‘a danger to the rest of the community.’

    Interestingly, the funding for this new vaccine tattoo technology has come from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which funded the team’s research.

    “According to a Scientific American story, the project came about following a direct request from Microsoft founder Bill Gates himself, who has been personally involved in efforts to eradicate polio and measles through vaccinations.”


    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.
    Mark Walter Evans wrote:
    Most of us are new to the vast field of data that we must process in order to get up to speed on the parameters of the corona-virus crisis – and there is a lot of disinformation out there that we must deal with. It is time to appreciate the Zen concept of "beginner's mind."

    To my way of thinking, one must begin with the understanding that one does not know anything. -And one must read everything and be open to truth from all quarters, and then work out the contradictions.

    That is the methodology I learned from the late Mae Brussell of Carmel, and I consider myself to be one of her disciples.

    Finell wrote:
    A while back, in one message in which you complained about my repeating the same statements ... you said that the fact that you started this thread gives you special privileges or authority to regulate the conversation.
    You just can't stop misrepresenting the words of others to the Jury, can you, Mr. Finell, Esq.? O well. That's what lawyers do. This is what I actually did write:

    As the originator of this thread, I am asking that you leave, politely, by the front door and go back to your respectable white-collar, blue-pill ward, and leave us darkies what have been quarantined by Barry in this - his designated, "red-pill" ward - alone. This here ward is for those of us who have been niggerized & branded as "conspiracy theorists"

    You ain't got nothing to contribute here, in the "Coronavirus/Conspiracy" Ward. You have proven that abundantly, again & again. Y'all are slumming, kibitzing & trolling, to boot. This here ward is for those of us who have taken the time to read 'alternative' sources -which you folks refuse to do.

    I think I am within the bounds of reasonable discourse to state my case so bluntly because Barry has quarantined this one ( i ) to have a privileged seat in the back of the bus. Barry knows what I am talking about since I shared my dream (trauma) with him. CHORUS: "Do you have a Dream?" A. Yes I gots one.

    Hitherto, Barry, our erstwhile Faifax-based moderator, has repeatedly demanded of me in 'personal' e-mails that I stop posting on certain threads. Evidently, he thought that I was incapable of "acting responsibly about coronavirus" -Or perhaps he just wanted to impose a little "social distancing' on this one. He has also moved my comments from the threads where I posted them back into the isolation of this "red-pill" ward.

    So I think I have earned the right to ask for Barry to respect the same rule that he imposed on me back during the time that he booted me out of the "
    Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus - Please Join Me" thread. I had more to say there - about how we-all should stock up on grains & foods that can keep; more about herbs, etc.

    =AND=

    "Furthermore, I, personally do not like to engage in being "argumentative & insulting"; I am merely very weary of seeing "my thread" being trashed by arguments and the inane, off-subject comments of others. I would like to see this thread stay on topic, and proceed along the lines of intelligent, adult discourse about the (very serious) issues & items that I myself, and others have put on the table here
    One of the purposes of 'trolling' is to deflect public attention away from the examination of serious data by focusing on minor points & engaging in trivial arguments about bs. *Everyone should know this by now.

    Barry - with whom I have a ( mutual ) love-hate relationship - has seen fit to boot me off other threads -where I was making legitimate, social contributions- and quarantine my comments into the "Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories" Ward. And I have stated my protest. Enough said. It is abundantly evident to me that the man has double standards.

    On the one hand, he boots me off the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread - where I was trying to contribute, and was certainly not trolling. -And on the other hand, Barry himself has joined in the trolling & mockery of we, the so-called "#Conspiracy Theorists" here in this, his designated Ward for the weirdos, 'politically incorrect' & insane. The legs of the lame are not equal."

    Finell wrote:
    I would appreciate hearing from our Moderator about whether the originator of a discussion has any special privileges here on WaccoBB.
    So would I. Moderator, please Intervene - would'ja? I have never received an adequate explanation from you, Barry, as to why you booted me off of the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread just four minutes before this Finell character shows up for the first time and poses a second Question to me. That sure was some strange confluence of events. Just saying...

    Last edited by Mayacaman; 08-03-2020 at 11:22 PM.
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  19. TopTop #313
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    I would appreciate hearing from our Moderator about whether the originator of a discussion has any special privileges here on WaccoBB.
    Speaking from heaven, , I decree that a thread originator does NOT have any special privileges as to what discussion happens on a thread. They are welcome, along with all other members, to drop me a private note as
    to whether a thread should be split or something otherwise inappropriate has been posted. I do try to keep threads roughly on topic.

    Credible information or opinion contrary to the thread originators POV, is expressly permitted.

    Repeatedly posting the same information is discouraged. Sometimes I just remove it from the digest (as with Mark's recent post above), sometimes I remove the post. If a poster is a repeat repeater, they may get banned for some number of days (I'm looking at you, Mark).

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  21. TopTop #314
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Barry;235780]Speaking from heaven, , I decree that a thread originator does NOT have any special privileges as to what discussion happens on a thread. They are welcome, along with all other members, to drop me a private note as
    to whether a thread should be split or something otherwise inappropriate has been posted. I do try to keep threads roughly on topic.

    Credible information or opinion contrary to the thread originators POV, is expressly permitted.

    Repeatedly posting the same information is discouraged. Sometimes I just remove it from the digest (as with Mark's recent post above), sometimes I remove the post. If a poster is a repeat repeater, they may get banned for some number of days (I'm looking at you, Mark).
    Mayacaman wrote:
    I have never received an adequate explanation from you, Barry, as to why you booted me off of the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread just four minutes before this Finell character shows up for the first time and poses a second Question to me. That sure was some strange confluence of events. Just saying...
    Could I suggest, perhaps, Barry that your behavior towards me over on the
    "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread and the surly manner in which you cast me out of civil society in that instance is completely contrary to the manner in which you have A. Both permitted, & B. Also, joined in the trolling of this thread.

    You still have not explained the reason for this disparity, Barry. Anyone who wishes to read the other thread [Click on the link] can see that you have double standards - and that your biases are a mile wide.

    Case in Point :

    Quote wildinspired wrote: View Post
    As the creator of this thread...I would much appreciate if we stay with my intended topic, which is how we can act responsibly to the Coronavirus. That means helpful information that is calmly and in a friendly manner shared between us. So please, let's come back to this intention and now that it's been spoken, respect and leave behind the issue of being banned. If that cannot happen here, then this thread will be abandoned. I'm very sad to see it devolve.

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  22. TopTop #315
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Stop trolling me Mark. This is the second time that you have accused me of being Barry or Barry's sockpuppet or Barry's tool. I am my own person. My identity is public, so it it is easy to find out about me, and you have already done that. So please stop this accusatory bullshit.

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post

    So would I. Moderator, please Intervene - would'ja? I have never received an adequate explanation from you, Barry, as to why you booted me off of the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread just four minutes before this Finell character shows up for the first time and poses a second Question to me. That sure was some strange confluence of events. Just saying...

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  24. TopTop #316
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    Stop trolling me Mark. This is the second time that you have accused me of being Barry or Barry's sockpuppet or Barry's tool. I am my own person. My identity is public, so it it is easy to find out about me, and you have already done that. So please stop this accusatory bullshit.
    It is not an accusation, Steve Finell. I have not "accused" you of being Barry's "sock-puppet". Someone else may have; but not this one. I know better than to do that. You are a lawyer; and I know a little about the boundaries of Libel.

    I have merely stated that -
    So far- you have done nothing to dispel my impression of you: to wit: that you have been detailed by the CDC to be the room monitor and stringer here at WaccoBB in order to encourage everyone to line up and get their s-h-o-t-s...

    One of the purposes of 'trolling' is to deflect public attention away from the examination of serious data by focusing on minor points & engaging in trivial arguments about bs. *Everyone should know this by now.

    And as far as you telling me to stop trolling you - Well, I don't have to say that that is absolutely ludicrous on the face of it. You never engage in dialog with me or Answer my Questions to you.

    Which of these sources are you referring to, when you say
    "crack pot sources", Steven Finell, Esq. ?

    :

    Transcript of Interview of Dr. Francis Boyle
    [the lawyer who drafted the Bio-weapons Treaty of 1989]


    Interview of Dr. Peter Daszak by Amy Goodman - April 16, 2020
    Zoologist Debunks Trump’s COVID-19 Origin Theory, Calling It “Pure Baloney”


    Article by Fred Guterl in Newsweek, April 28, 2020:
    Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research



    Article by Josh Rogin, in the Washington Post, April 14, 2020
    State Department cables warned of safety issues

    at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses


    =OR=


    Perhaps it is the Scientific American?



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  25. TopTop #317
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    ...But In the face of Mandatory Vaccinations and ID2020, I am constrained to post here. This is the End, folks - the End of Days - and there are multitudes, multitudes in the Valley of Decision.

    The Valley of Decision - which confronts every one of the Seven Billion inhabitants of Planet Earth at this hour - is whether to allow oneself to be micro-chipped =OR= Not.



    Quote Goat Rock Ukulele wrote: View Post
    There is not going to be any mandatory vaccinations. 21% of they (more republicans than democrats) US adult public say the will not take a vaccine to protect from Covid-19. You might think about putting the fear of a forced vaccination to bed.

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    They are going to release a "second wave" of Covid 19, or a new virus altogether, that is more deadly and resistant to treatment, and then trot out the mandatory vaxx

    Could you two gentllemen – Goat Rock Ukelele / Michael =and= amayon / Alex - please supply a link or two when you make a broad declaration that you state as fact. I’d like to see this thread proceed along the lines of a swap shop – where information that can be substantiated can be shared among us.

    –And- unless one can provide links to support one’s statements, they devolve, sadly, into the realm of mere opinions...
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  27. TopTop #318
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Mark, because you are now focussing on facts and on supporting authority, please provide us with a rigorous, scientifically accurate depiction, supported by reliable authorities, of the layout (that is, the components, circuit diagram, and wafer), with dimensions, of a functioning microchip that could do whatever you claim these alleged microchips will do, that could be manufactured with today's technology, and that would be small enough to be injected in administering in a vaccine.

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    ...please supply a link or two when you make a broad declaration that you state as fact...
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  29. TopTop #319
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post

    Could you two gentllemen – Goat Rock Ukelele / Michael =and= amayon / Alex - please supply a link or two when you make a broad declaration that you state as fact. I’d like to see this thread proceed along the lines of a swap shop – where information that can be substantiated can be shared among us.

    –And- unless one can provide links to support one’s statements, they devolve, sadly, into the realm of mere opinions...
    Here's a mainstream article, last section prepares us for second wave. Fauci et al are predicting second wave in the fall, for no distinct reason

    One reason flu season is fall/winter is that people are vitamin D3 deficient during this time from lack of sun. D3 is a key immune nutrient. The article covers this by saying that many viruses are killed by heat and ultraviolet, which is also true, but doesn't mention of course the more empowering and effective connection to D3.

    https://www.cnet.com/how-to/a-second...last-and-more/
    Last edited by Barry; 06-21-2020 at 11:52 AM.
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  31. TopTop #320
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Thank you, Mark, for redirecting this discussion to facts and reliable sources, rather than "the realm of mere opinions." That will make this rest of discussion more focussed and produceive—and a lot shorter. This is the most important contribution that any of us has made to this discussion yet. Thank you again, Mark.

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post

    –And- unless one can provide links to support one’s statements, they devolve, sadly, into the realm of mere opinions...
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  32. TopTop #321
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Alex, you write this as though the second paragraph of your post comes from the Cnet article to which you hyperlink. It does not. The article does not mention vitamin D3 deficiency as a cause of influenza in fall and winter. That is just your opinion.

    More importantly, the article is talking about influenza striking in fall and winter, not the SARS-CoV-2 virus. To the contrary, the article explains that the summer heat does not stop
    SARS-CoV-2: it is thriving in very hot climates including Arizona, India, and Indonesia. The article also cited a scientific research study that showed that SARS-CoV-2, unlike other coronaviruses, is not affected by hot-weather temperatures.

    You say, "Fauci et al are predicting second wave in the fall, for no distinct reason" (emphasis added). That misrepresents the Cnet article that you yourself hyperlinked. The article referred to a widely accepted statistical model, by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, that projects increasing deaths in the United States in September and October: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america. A second wave of infections is common in pandemics. "The disease infects one group of people first. Infections appear to decrease. And then, infections increase in a different part of the population, resulting in a second wave of infections." (William C. Shiel Jr., MD, "Medical Definition of Second wave," MedicineNet at https://www.medicinenet.com/script/m...ticlekey=26442.)

    We can all thank Mark for stressing the importance of facts and reliable sources.

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    Here's a mainstream article, last section prepares us for second wave. Fauci et al are predicting second wave in the fall, for no distinct reason ...

    https://www.cnet.com/how-to/a-second...last-and-more/
    Last edited by Barry; 06-21-2020 at 11:54 AM.
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  34. TopTop #322
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    Mark, because you are now focussing on facts and on supporting authority, please provide us with a rigorous, scientifically accurate depiction, supported by reliable authorities, of the layout (that is, the components, circuit diagram, and wafer), with dimensions, of a functioning microchip that could do whatever you claim these alleged microchips will do, that could be manufactured with today's technology, and that would be small enough to be injected in administering in a vaccine.
    Sure Steve, Glad you asked that. That's easy. You just start with the search I suggested back on 04-05-2020; this one:

    The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins

    the following words through the DuckDuckGo Search engine :


    " id2020 , microchip, Bill Gates, patent, "



    Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar
    @ the foot of the page.


    Listen/
    Read/
    Watch
    ...




    So here is what comes up on the top of the pile:

    Bill Gates, Vaccinations, Microchips, And Patent 060606


    Bill Gates will use microchip implants to fight coronavirus


    Bill Gates, Microsoft file patent for dystopian “body activity data” apparatus


    Microsoft, Bill Gates, Patent 666, & Microchipping Humans Explained


    Bill Gates will use your microchipped body to mine cryptocurrency


    Bill Gates Wants ‘Digital Certificates’ To Be Issued To Those Who Have Been Tested For COVID-19…


    Microsoft Funds ID2020 And Filed Patent For A Device Connected To The Human Body (RFID Microchip?) For Buying And Selling Bitcoin


    ...


    And that's just the top of the pile.

    And then, of Course, there's Snopes. Snopes comes up third, per usual.
    -And for those who think you can pull off a 'ta-da' moment around me,
    -Just know you got another thing coming. Snopes ? Snopes is a Joke.
    And if you believe his scheme o' crap, then the Joke is on you, Buster.


    Attached Thumbnails (click thumbnail for larger view) Attached Thumbnails (click thumbnail for larger view) Expand   Expand  
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  35. TopTop #323
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    Alex, you write this as though the second paragraph of your post comes from the Cnet article to which you hyperlink. It does not. ...
    And you did not read my post correctly. I said that the article does NOT mention D3 even though it is an essential part of the immune system. Mainstream news will not cover that because it would tank flu vaccine sales, and decrease Covid fear. D3 being an essential immune nutrient is "my opinion?" Lol. Look it up.

    I never said that Covid was killed by heat, did not mention Covid and ultraviolet. You've gone on another tangent.

    The article itself speculates that the economy reopening might be the cause of a "second wave," but since economies like Georgia have reopened without any spike in cases, that seems unlikely to be the case.

    Do you think this virus has infected "one group of people?" Which group? And it's going to spread to the "next group" conveniently in the fall, just before the election?

    We can all thank Mark for bothering to read and think.
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  36. TopTop #324
    heresbruce's Avatar
    heresbruce
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    As I get each flurry of WaccoBB messages, especially those concerning Covid 19, I scan them and delete since for some folks OPINION TRUMPS FACTS from reputable solid sources: but a recent trope pushed me to act. When there is exposure to Covid 19, there is a delayed yet inevitable response: Georgia HAS increased in cases, as I believe will Oklahoma and everywhere else that opens early and without stringent enforced guards.

    The whole debate about face-mask use is tragic and potentially fatal: I wear a mask  in public and stand six feet apart not for me, but for YOU. I want you to know that I am educated enough to know that I could be asymptomatic and still give you the virus. No, I don’t “live in fear” of the virus, I just want to be a part of the solution, not the problem. I don’t feel like the “government is controlling me”, I feel like I’m being a contributing adult to society and I want to teach others the same. The world doesn’t revolve around me. It’s not all about me and my comfort.

    If we all could live with other people's consideration in mind, this whole world would be a much better place. Wearing a mask and standing in the boxes six feet apart doesn’t make me weak, scared, stupid or even “controlled”, it makes me considerate. Imagine just for a moment that someone near and dear to you getting sick and ask yourself if you could have sucked it up a little for them.
    Feel free to copy and paste. I did!! 

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    ...Do you think this virus has infected "one group of people?" Which group? And it's going to spread to the "next group" conveniently in the fall, just before the election?...
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  38. TopTop #325
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, for expressing so eloquently the position of an educated, intelligent, sensible, conscientious, responsible, adult citizen in this time of crisis.

    Quote heresbruce wrote: View Post
    ...The whole debate about face-mask use is tragic and potentially fatal: I wear a mask in public and stand six feet apart not for me, but for YOU. ...
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  39. TopTop #326
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    I believe you mean well, Alex. I have not figured out whether Mark means well or whether he advocates crackpot positions for the fun of antagonizing others. Unfortunately, you, others who have expressed similar views in this thread, and possibly Mark as well, lack the knowledge and discernment to know which writers deserve to be believed and which do not. As a result, you do not apprehend the facts concerning the current health crisis or the broader context of public health and public policy.

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    We can all thank Mark for bothering to read and think.
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  41. TopTop #327
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Finell wrote: View Post
    I believe you mean well, Alex. ...
    Thank you, Finell, for your superior discernment and humane intervention on behalf of science. Your myriad failures to respond meaningfully to my or Mark's posts, and refusal to address the sources he listed, in no way detract from your credibility.

    The covid test is notoriously inaccurate and yields false positives all the time. To take a reported number of increased cases at face value, when they have been generated by a test with major inaccuracies, is childishly naive. It is just a narrative: the pandemic narrative. The virus is real, the hype is not.

    And no, Bruce, masks do not protect people against viruses, unless they are respirator masks. The cloth masks are to viruses what chain link fences are to mosquitoes. And viruses CERTAINLY don't get tangled in the threads of a scarf. It is pure theater.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-22-2020 at 01:44 PM.
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  43. TopTop #328
    Valley Oak's Avatar
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    "Hello Everyone, my name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England.

    I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally. You can also download videos, learning aids, podcasts and my books in high resolution PDF format from campbellteaching.co.uk.

    LinkedIn profile, https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-c...223Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed. They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider. No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice. All comments are also for educational purposes only and must never replace advice from your own health care provider."
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  45. TopTop #329
    heresbruce's Avatar
    heresbruce
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Alex: respectfully, chain link fences may be needed to keep folks away who may carry a virus but are unable to understand that they may be asymptomatic (I assume you know what that means). Cloth face masks: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...coverings.html are merely a mechanism to minimize any natural aerosol contaminant I expel from my mouth going any further than the inside of the cloth, lessening the chance that another may be exposed to a virus I may unknowingly have. It may also keep out someone else's. As someone who has worked in medical settings with children, adults, and mentally handicapped individuals, I am aware of how human body fluids can convey microorganisms. There are no guarantees, but it is foolish not to take whatever precautions that are NOT onerous that may lessen dangers to myself or others, especially my loved ones. Thank you for your concern...

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    Thank you, Finell, for your superior discernment and humane intervention on behalf of science. Your myriad failures to respond meaningfully to my or Mark's posts, and refusal to address the sources he listed, in no way detract from your credibility.

    The covid test is notoriously inaccurate and yields false positives all the time. To take a reported number of increased cases at face value, when they have been generated by a test with major inaccuracies, is childishly naive. It is just a narrative: the pandemic narrative. The virus is real, the hype is not.

    And no, Bruce, masks do not protect people against viruses, unless they are respirator masks. The cloth masks are to viruses what chain link fences are to mosquitoes. And viruses CERTAINLY don't get tangled in the threads of a scarf. It is pure theater.
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  47. TopTop #330
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote heresbruce wrote: View Post
    ...There are no guarantees, but it is foolish not to take whatever precautions that are NOT onerous that may lessen dangers to myself or others, especially my loved ones. Thank you for your concern...
    Bruce: I respect your concern for your family, but if you believe the inflated case and death numbers of Covid19 (false test positives, gunshot deaths counted as Covid for kickback money, Covid patients killed deliberately with respirators for kickback money), believe that people need to be separated (divide and conquer) for an indefinite period in a state of fear, believe that the economic collapse thereby caused (millions starving to death in the third world) is a "small price to pay," and want to live behind a chain link fence, then you have bought into HYSTERIA (I assume you know what that means). And if you take solace in the utterings of the corrupt CDC, which alters its data to suit any purpose, here's another false authority, Dr. Anthony Fauci, telling you that masks are completely useless.

    https://youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI
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