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  1. TopTop #1
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
     

    Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    No ones gonna like this...but so be it...

    Bernies has, maybe, won twice now if you believe him. But if you're objective- he's lost big twice...

    In Iowa, never mind the conspiracy theories, he lost in delegates. Won slightly in votes. But remember- Iowa used to only report the delegates. They reported 3 metrics this year- with the total votes having been demanded by Sanders because he was sure he could turn out the vote. It didn't happen. Turnout there was much like 2016- not the huge turnout of 2008. And regardless- Bernie failed miserably at inspiring the wave he had promised.

    Much the same in New Hampshire. Where turnout *does* look to be more like 2008. Yet the turnout was not a wave for Bernie...it was a wave for Democrats.

    Both Sanders and Warren needed huge margins in New Hampshire- states their districts adjoin and the voters who know them best. It didn't happen.

    Bernie will not do well in Nevada. Will likely finish last in South Carolina (caveat- we'll see if being gay or being socialist fares worse in South Carolina).

    California and New York are the only states Sanders is likely to win big. Many of the key "swing states"... he will loose because the unionized workers don't want to trade their hard fought for health insurance for MFA, because they won't for a socialist, and because he simply does not have the support of the black and latino communities. And to be honest... because he is not a christian.

    Pete's going to likewise struggle in many key states because he is openly gay- which is going to hurt him with many religious folks and the black and latino populations.

    Warren may actually come back in many of the upcoming states if she stays in the race. Likewise Biden. And Klobuchar may rise fastest of all.

    But I think we are really looking at a situation where there was not a single candidate who really had what it took to unite our country. We're going to have a brutal and contested national convention. And then... unless the economy starts to crash (which it's going to...only question is whether it's 3 months or 12 months)... whether Trump supporters turn.

    Maybe the Republicans were right in the impeachment.. let the voter decide.
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  3. TopTop #2
    forveterans49's Avatar
    forveterans49
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Media keeps lying about Bernie. Check this out: https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/...ed_audio_aspen


    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    No ones gonna like this...but so be it...

    Bernies has, maybe, won twice now if you believe him. But if you're objective- he's lost big twice...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-13-2020 at 03:39 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Everyone has an opinion. Here are a couple of links to Nate Silver's site:

    Who Will Win The 2020 Democratic Primary? This one is a graphical representation of his analysis of who is likely to win more than half of the pledged delegates in the 2020 primary. Bernie Sanders tops the list with a 37% chance. The next closest is Biden with a 16% chance.

    Sanders Is The Front-Runner After New Hampshire, And A Contested Convention Has Become More Likely The title speaks for itself. (I should mention that the actual second place in the first article was "No One", with a 36% chance.)

    Nate Silver is a pollster, highly regarded for accuracy. Of course, he's still often wrong. But obviously many Democrats do support a social democrat (you know, like Angela Merkel?) and many Democrats do support Medicare For All, like the Canadians, Germans, French, British, and Taiwanese have. Many black and brown people support Bernie, certainly more than support Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Many people support non-Christian politicians--look at all the Jewish Representatives and Senators throughout the US, including "red" states. So I don't think you have an accurate theoretical basis for much of what you say. Perhaps you could explain why you think the facts are on your side.

    Of course, you may be 100% correct, after all. We will see how it turns out!
    Last edited by Barry; 02-13-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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  7. TopTop #4
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Yea Bernie! GO! He would probably select a woman Vice-President, who could go on to be the first woman president.

    Quote phredo wrote: View Post
    Everyone has an opinion. Here are a couple of links to Nate Silver's site:
    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-14-2020 at 02:40 PM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    O.W.'s Avatar
    O.W.
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Bernie is the only one who has been fighting the 1% and their GOP elitists/enablers for years now. The mainstream Dems and centrists don't get it....we have to have bold action now as the mainstream (centrists) solutions do not work and inequality gets worse. Elizabeth Warren is a fighter also and loved her Consumers Bureau that has been gutted by the GOP plutocrats. Government by and for the elites, I didn't sign up for this.

    Just saw an interview and evidently all the Davos crowd believe Trump will be elected again. Clueless sociopaths. 69 degrees in Antarctica…... we have no time left. Bernie ticks all my boxes.

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Yea Bernie! GO! He would probably select a woman Vice-President, who could go on to be the first woman president.
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  11. TopTop #6
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    I agree with most of what you say, OW, but I also think it's a bit naive to believe that the Dems aren't also in thrall to banks, corporations and the like, too. They've just historically been more circumspect about it. The Repugs aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

    Quote O.W. wrote: View Post
    Bernie is the only one who has been fighting the 1% and their GOP elitists/enablers for years now. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-16-2020 at 02:14 PM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    caromia333's Avatar
    caromia333
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    this is one of the best interviews with Michael Moore about the election.
    Shining bits of glorious truth … and what’s really happening in the corrupt DNC



    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    No ones gonna like this...but so be it.....
    Last edited by Barry; 02-17-2020 at 02:34 PM.
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  15. TopTop #8

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Quote caromia333 wrote: View Post
    this is one of the best interviews with Michael Moore about the election....
    Couldn't watch the whole interview, but it's clear that Michael is a Bernie Bro. Personally, I don't think the country is prepared for a Socialist. If Bernie gets the nomination, he will destroy the Democratic party. That's why the DNC and the power brokers are looking for anyone (even Bloomberg) to act as a savior.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-17-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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  16. TopTop #9
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?


    Bernie Sanders Isn’t a Socialist

    Feb. 13, 2020


    Republicans have a long, disreputable history of conflating any attempt to improve American lives with the evils of “socialism.” When Medicare was first proposed, Ronald Reagan called it “socialized medicine,” and he declared that it would destroy our freedom. These days, if you call for something like universal child care, conservatives accuse you of wanting to turn America into the Soviet Union.

    It’s a smarmy, dishonest political strategy, but it’s hard to deny that it has sometimes been effective. And now the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination — not an overwhelming front-runner, but clearly the person most likely at the moment to come out on top — is someone who plays right into that strategy, by declaring that he is indeed a socialist.

    The thing is, Bernie Sanders isn’t actually a socialist in any normal sense of the term. He doesn’t want to nationalize our major industries and replace markets with central planning; he has expressed admiration, not for Venezuela, but for Denmark. He’s basically what Europeans would call a social democrat — and social democracies like Denmark are, in fact, quite nice places to live, with societies that are, if anything, freer than our own.

    So why does Sanders call himself a socialist? I’d say that it’s mainly about personal branding, with a dash of glee at shocking the bourgeoisie. And this self-indulgence did no harm as long as he was just a senator from a very liberal state.

    But if Sanders becomes the Democratic presidential nominee, his misleading self-description will be a gift to the Trump campaign. So will his policy proposals. Single-payer health care is (a) a good idea in principle and (b) very unlikely to happen in practice, but by making Medicare for All the centerpiece of his campaign, Sanders would take the focus off the Trump administration’s determination to take away the social safety net we already have.

    Just to be clear, if Sanders is indeed the nominee, the Democratic Party should give him its wholehearted support. He probably couldn’t turn America into Denmark, and even if he could, President Trump is trying to turn us into a white nationalist autocracy like Hungary. Which would you prefer?

    But I do wish that Sanders weren’t so determined to make himself an easy target for right-wing smears.

    Speaking of unhelpful political posturing, the runner-up in New Hampshire has also been poisoning his own well. Over the past few days Pete Buttigieg has chosen to pose as a deficit hawk, thereby demonstrating that while he may be a fresh face, he has remarkably stale ideas.

    Maybe Buttigieg is unaware of the growing consensus among mainstream economists that the deficit hysteria of seven or eight years ago was greatly overblown. Last year the former top economists in the Obama administration published an article titled “Who’s Afraid of Budget Deficits?” which concluded, “It’s time for Washington to put away its debt obsession and focus on bigger things.”

    And where Sanders is playing right into one disreputable Republican political strategy, Buttigieg is playing into another: the strategy of hobbling the economy with fiscal austerity when a Democrat occupies the White House, then borrowing freely as soon as the G.O.P. regains power. If Democrats win, they should pursue a progressive agenda, not waste political capital cleaning up the G.O.P.’s mess.

    Again, if Buttigieg somehow becomes the nominee, the party should back him without reservation. Whatever he may say about deficits, he wouldn’t do what Republicans do: use debt fears as an excuse to slash social programs.

    So who will the Democrats nominate? Your guess is as good as mine. What’s really important, however, is that the party stays focused on its strengths and Trump’s weaknesses.

    For the fact is that all of the Democrats who would be president, from Bloomberg to Bernie, are at least moderately progressive; they all want to maintain and expand the social safety net, while raising taxes on the wealthy. And all the polling evidence says that America is basically a center-left nation — which is why Trump promised to raise taxes on the rich and protect major social programs during the 2016 campaign.

    But he was lying, and at this point everyone with an open mind knows it. So Democrats have a perfect opportunity to portray themselves, truthfully, as the defenders of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the now-popular Affordable Care Act against Republicans who are more or less nakedly favoring the interests of plutocrats over those of working families.

    This opportunity will, however, be squandered if the Democratic nominee, whoever he or she is, turns the election into a referendum on either single-payer health care or deficit reduction, neither of which is an especially popular position. Things will be even worse if the Democrats themselves degenerate into squabbles over either ideological purity or fiscal probity.

    The point is that whoever gets the nomination, Democrats need to build as broad a coalition as possible. Otherwise they’ll be handing the election to Trump — and that would be a tragedy for the party, the nation and the world.

    Last edited by Barry; 02-17-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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  18. TopTop #10
    caromia333's Avatar
    caromia333
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Bernie isn't a socialist. But Republicans clearly are. Let's quit circling the wagons and shooting in.
    US taxpayers subsidising world's biggest fossil fuel companies

    Shell, ExxonMobil and Marathon Petroleum got subsidises granted by politicians who received significant campaign contributions from the fossil fuel industry, Guardian investigation reveals

    Oil & Gas Industry receives more than $17 Billion in Subsidies per year,

    This is what Bernie is fighting against and with CLIMATE CHANGE giving us just 10 years (according to worlds leading scientists} to address - we can't afford any moderates who aren't clear about what's really happening in the US.

    Republicans have being paying for SOCIALIST propaganda ads for sometime now. Don't fall for it. READ media like THE INTERCEPT, PROJECT CENSORED (SSU renown journalism program).

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Couldn't watch the whole interview, but it's clear that Michael is a Bernie Bro. Personally, I don't think the country is prepared for a Socialist. If Bernie gets the nomination, he will destroy the Democratic party. That's why the DNC and the power brokers are looking for anyone (even Bloomberg) to act as a savior.
    Last edited by caromia333; 02-17-2020 at 10:20 AM. Reason: error in formating
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  20. TopTop #11

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Quote caromia333 wrote: View Post
    Bernie isn't a socialist.
    He says he is. He may tack on a prelabel of "Democratic" but it's clear what he's about.

    democratic socialists ultimately want to go beyond mere meliorist reforms and advocate systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism.


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  22. TopTop #12
    caromia333's Avatar
    caromia333
     

    Re: Bernies done. Are the Dems too?

    Bernie LIVE NOW in Washington State - thousands of people there ... AMAZING

    https://www.facebook.com/berniesande...action_generic
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